Talk:Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards: Difference between revisions

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			{{Talk header}}
	==WCCA DRV==
			{{Old AfD multi\| date=] \| result='''delete''' \| page=Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards \| date2=] \| result2='''keep''' \| page2=Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards (2nd nomination) \|date3 = ] \| result3 = '''keep''' \| page3 = Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|page4=Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards (2nd nomination)\|date4=2010-04-16 \|result4='''Keep'''}}
	] --] 00:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
			{{WikiProject banner shell\|collapsed=yes
			\|class=Start\|
			{{WikiProject Comics \|importance=Low \|Web-work-group=yes}}
			{{WikiProject Awards\|importance=Low }}
			{{WikiProject Websites \|importance=Low}}
			}}

			== Handy Citations ==

			Need to cite the WCCAs? Here you go! ] ] 11:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
			<!--
			* <tt><nowiki><ref name="WCCA ">{{cite web \|url= \|title= \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></tt>
			-->
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2001">{{cite web \|url=http://www.ccawards.com/2001.htm \|title=2001 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2002">{{cite web \|url=http://www.ccawards.com/2002.htm \|title=2002 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2003">{{cite web \|url=http://www.ccawards.com/2003.htm \|title=2003 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2004">{{cite web \|url=http://www.ccawards.com/2004.htm \|title=2004 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2005">{{cite web \|url=http://www.ccawards.com/2005.htm \|title=2005 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2006">{{cite web \|url=http://ryanestrada.com/wcca/ \|title=2006 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards Online Ceremony \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2007">{{cite web \|url=http://ryanestrada.com/wcca07/ \|title=2007 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards Online Ceremony \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>
			* <code><nowiki><ref name="WCCA 2008">{{cite web \|url=http://www.ccawards.com/2008finalists.html \|title=2008 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards \|accessdate=</nowiki>{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}<nowiki> \|date=] \|format= \|work= }}</ref></nowiki></code>

			== Notability ==

			I wanted to point this out: any comic that has won an award from the WCCA is considered notable as per the current version of ] (this is unlikely to change). So every comic here should have an article on Wiki. ] 08:00, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
			:I agree, which is why I have been trying to list all of the recipients. ] ] 16:02, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

			I think the awards for 2005 are wrong. The page seems to state the presentators rather than the winners. e.g. A lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible took home the award for outstanding layout. http://www.ccawards.com/2005ceremony/layout.htm I'm too new to this to dare edit the page... The nominees and the winners are presented at http://www.ccawards.com/2005.htm <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:56, May 9, 2006</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

			Duh. my mistake, I now clearly see that this page (the wikipedia page)only says who presented the awards. still, it could use the updating, maybe I'll just learn how this html stuff works and do it myself, but please, someone, beat me too it. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:10, May 10, 2006</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

			== Notable ==

			How are the Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards notable? --] 17:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

			:As for third party reputable sources, it has been featured on G4 techTV's Atack of the Show in August, 2005 and also in a New York Times article on digital comics 17 August, 2005. ] 11:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
			::Not according to the article as it exists now. We've got some tail-swallowing here: The web content guideline says that an award must be notable, so unless some meat is added to this article, quite a few of these comics which have ''no other'' claim to satisfying the critera look vulnerable. - ] 23:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
			:::Another point is that several "notable" webcomics (such as VG Cats) have made presentation comics specifically for WCCA to use. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 11:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

			== Controversy Section ==

			This section was blanked and brought back recently. I didn't remove it, but I am of the opinion that the article might be better off without it... It seems like NPOV and OR concerns seems concentrated in this section. Can we do without it? -- ] (]) 06:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
			:I added some {{tl\|fact}} tags to it. If we can't source it, then the section should be edited accordingly. ] ] 06:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
			::I just cut quite a bit of unsourced controversy, arguments, etc. -- ] 06:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
			:I was one of the people to remove unsourced segments - if we can find some reputable sources for the controversy, then we can bring them back, but good luck trying to find an internal webcomic debate outside of the forums and blogs. The controversy exists, but it's entirely online, making a rather unfortunate barrier. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 06:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

			== Deletion ==

			Per ] this page is to be deleted. However my recalcitrant broswer means that it's now in {{]}} status for the time being. - ] 05:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

			It's been restored and the new AfD looks like it's coming down very solidly on the side of "keep". Which means in all likelyhood we should reconstruct the just-deleted ], since the CfD discussion was heavily influenced by the fact that this article had been deleted (see ]). I grabbed the contrib history from Cydebot to make this easier and put it at ]. ] 11:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

			: Just having article on an award doesn't warrant it to have a category for it. ] 18:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

			::Perhaps true. But is there any particular reason not to have a category for ''this'' award? The CfD's conclusion was based entirely on the fact of this article's deletion, which now appears to have been invalid. ] 00:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

			Winners should be placed in ]. ] ] 11:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

			== Another DRV ==

			] wasn't undeleted, so I put it up for ] ]. ] ] 00:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

			== Slashdot ==

			Has a story on the deletion snit -> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/31/0328239

			] 15:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

			== Something positive ==

			It would be nice if you had _something_ nice to say about the web cartoonist's choice awards. These are after all the most famous awards for webcomics. It's a bit ridiculous that almost the entire article consists of people whining about them. - ] 23:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
			*Have you got any sources we can use in the article to do that? All I could find was negative stuff, sadly. ] <small>] </small> 09:53, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
			== Possible sources ==

			#{{cite news \| last =Malott \| first =Bonnie \| title =Web cartoonist is the cat's meow \| work = The Record (Kitchner, Ontario, Canada) \| page =B1 \| date =July 21, 2004 }}
			#{{cite news \| last =Jackson \| first =Lorne \| title =Out of the shadow \| work =] \| date = March 27, 2009}}
			#{{cite book \| last =Silverblatt \| first =Art \| title =Genre studies in mass media: a handbook \| publisher = M.E. Sharpe \| year = 2007 \| page =19 \| isbn =0765616696 }}
			''']''' (]) 13:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

			== live presentation ==

			Article says "although in 2007 a live presentation is being made for the first time at MegaCon." Did the presentation happen? --] (]) 23:28, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

			== Log history fragmentation ==

			FWIW, somehow the log history of this article has become fragmented, possibly due to the move: with . -] (]) 02:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

			== Possible notability in Webcomics and Libraries ==

			I just Google Scholar searched for "Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards" and found ''Graphic Novels and Comics in Libraries and Archives: Essays on Readers, Research, History and Cataloging''. Chapter 25 also mentions these tools for librarians: ], ], ], ], ] and the ]. Here is a {{tl\|cite book}} template usable for other articles.<ref group="Libraries" name="Weiner">{{cite book\|last1=Thorne\|first1=Amy\|chapter=25 Webcomics and Libraries\|editor=Robert G. Weiner\|others=Elizabeth (FRW) Figa and Derek Parker Royal (forewords); Stephen Weiner (afterword)\|title=Graphic Novels and Comics in Libraries and Archives: Essays on Readers, Research, History and Cataloging\|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=Xo-QYdfL9DoC\|edition=illustrated\|year=2010\|publisher=McFarland\|isbn=9780786443024\|page=211\|quote=starting points: Eric Burns ... Websnark ... takes a populist approach ... Comixtalk ... a webcomics news source; Fleen ... a webcomics blog; Kidjutsu ... focuses on webcomics for kids ... Librarians can consult the Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards ... and the Eisner Awards}}</ref>

			{{Reflist\|group="Libraries"}}

			-] (]) 23:05, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

			== Notability ==

			Notwithstanding the previous talk page threads and deletion discussions, what are the indicia of notability for this award? The NYT mention is not significant or in depth. The reference in the Robert G. Weiner book is barely even a passing mention. So what references give rise to notability? <small>]</small><small>]</small> 04:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
			* Good question. I just removed some unsourced or poorly sourced sentences about this award not being given out since 2008. Surely if a major award has ceased or gone on hiatus for a few years, that would generate some significant coverage in reliable sources. According to the timeline on the right side of the official site winners were announced on June 14, 2010, which would contradict claims that no awards were given out, however no winners are listed. If anyone can provide some clarity with some reliable sources that would be appreciated. Thanks, ] (]) 15:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

			== Non existant ==

			So this was a set of "awards" (no actual awards of any kind?) given out by members of a forum, and the article continues to exist by dint of voting in defiance of policy and accusing people of being "racist against webcomics"? ] (]) 17:58, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

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keep, 2007-02-16, see discussion.
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Handy Citations

Need to cite the WCCAs? Here you go! Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 11:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

<ref name="WCCA 2001">{{cite web |url=http://www.ccawards.com/2001.htm |title=2001 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2002">{{cite web |url=http://www.ccawards.com/2002.htm |title=2002 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2003">{{cite web |url=http://www.ccawards.com/2003.htm |title=2003 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2004">{{cite web |url=http://www.ccawards.com/2004.htm |title=2004 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2005">{{cite web |url=http://www.ccawards.com/2005.htm |title=2005 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2006">{{cite web |url=http://ryanestrada.com/wcca/ |title=2006 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards Online Ceremony |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2007">{{cite web |url=http://ryanestrada.com/wcca07/ |title=2007 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards Online Ceremony |accessdate=2025-01-05 |format= |work= }}</ref>
<ref name="WCCA 2008">{{cite web |url=http://www.ccawards.com/2008finalists.html |title=2008 Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards |accessdate=2025-01-05 |date=] |format= |work= }}</ref>

Notability

I wanted to point this out: any comic that has won an award from the WCCA is considered notable as per the current version of WP:WEB (this is unlikely to change). So every comic here should have an article on Wiki. Xuanwu 08:00, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree, which is why I have been trying to list all of the recipients. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 16:02, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the awards for 2005 are wrong. The page seems to state the presentators rather than the winners. e.g. A lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible took home the award for outstanding layout. http://www.ccawards.com/2005ceremony/layout.htm I'm too new to this to dare edit the page... The nominees and the winners are presented at http://www.ccawards.com/2005.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.235.0.157 (talk • contribs) 06:56, May 9, 2006

Duh. my mistake, I now clearly see that this page (the wikipedia page)only says who presented the awards. still, it could use the updating, maybe I'll just learn how this html stuff works and do it myself, but please, someone, beat me too it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.235.0.157 (talk • contribs) 00:10, May 10, 2006

Notable

How are the Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards notable? --Simonkoldyk 17:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

As for third party reputable sources, it has been featured on G4 techTV's Atack of the Show in August, 2005 and also in a New York Times article on digital comics 17 August, 2005. Epameinondas 11:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Not according to the article as it exists now. We've got some tail-swallowing here: The web content guideline says that an award must be notable, so unless some meat is added to this article, quite a few of these comics which have no other claim to satisfying the critera look vulnerable. - 152.91.9.144 23:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Another point is that several "notable" webcomics (such as VG Cats) have made presentation comics specifically for WCCA to use. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.43.105.22 (talk) 11:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Controversy Section

This section was blanked and brought back recently. I didn't remove it, but I am of the opinion that the article might be better off without it... It seems like NPOV and OR concerns seems concentrated in this section. Can we do without it? -- Ben (talk) 06:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I added some {{fact}} tags to it. If we can't source it, then the section should be edited accordingly. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 06:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I just cut quite a bit of unsourced controversy, arguments, etc. -- Dragonfiend 06:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I was one of the people to remove unsourced segments - if we can find some reputable sources for the controversy, then we can bring them back, but good luck trying to find an internal webcomic debate outside of the forums and blogs. The controversy exists, but it's entirely online, making a rather unfortunate barrier. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.138.44.202 (talk) 06:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Deletion

Per Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards this page is to be deleted. However my recalcitrant broswer means that it's now in {{deletedpage}} status for the time being. - brenneman 05:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It's been restored and the new AfD looks like it's coming down very solidly on the side of "keep". Which means in all likelyhood we should reconstruct the just-deleted Category:Web Cartoonist's Choice Award winners, since the CfD discussion was heavily influenced by the fact that this article had been deleted (see Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 February 1#Category:Web Cartoonist's Choice Award winners). I grabbed the contrib history from Cydebot to make this easier and put it at User:Bryan Derksen/WCCA cat listing. Bryan Derksen 11:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Just having article on an award doesn't warrant it to have a category for it. bogdan 18:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps true. But is there any particular reason not to have a category for this award? The CfD's conclusion was based entirely on the fact of this article's deletion, which now appears to have been invalid. Bryan Derksen 00:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Winners should be placed in Category:Web Cartoonists' Choice Award winners. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 11:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Another DRV

2007 Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards wasn't undeleted, so I put it up for WP:DRV here. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Slashdot

Has a story on the deletion snit -> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/31/0328239

WiccaWeb 15:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Something positive

It would be nice if you had _something_ nice to say about the web cartoonist's choice awards. These are after all the most famous awards for webcomics. It's a bit ridiculous that almost the entire article consists of people whining about them. - 136.159.61.31 23:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Have you got any sources we can use in the article to do that? All I could find was negative stuff, sadly. Hiding Talk 09:53, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible sources

Malott, Bonnie (July 21, 2004). "Web cartoonist is the cat's meow". The Record (Kitchner, Ontario, Canada). p. B1.
Jackson, Lorne (March 27, 2009). "Out of the shadow". The Birmingham Post.
Silverblatt, Art (2007). Genre studies in mass media: a handbook. M.E. Sharpe. p. 19. ISBN 0765616696.

Cirt (talk) 13:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

live presentation

Article says "although in 2007 a live presentation is being made for the first time at MegaCon." Did the presentation happen? --EarthFurst (talk) 23:28, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Log history fragmentation

FWIW, somehow the log history of this article has become fragmented, possibly due to the move: 2007-01-29 to 2008-02-03 here with 2005-09-18 and 2007-01-29 here. -84user (talk) 02:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Possible notability in Webcomics and Libraries

I just Google Scholar searched for "Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards" and found Graphic Novels and Comics in Libraries and Archives: Essays on Readers, Research, History and Cataloging. Chapter 25 also mentions these tools for librarians: Eric Burns, Websnark, Comixtalk, Fleen, Kidjutsu and the Eisner Awards. Here is a {{cite book}} template usable for other articles.

Thorne, Amy (2010). "25 Webcomics and Libraries". In Robert G. Weiner (ed.). Graphic Novels and Comics in Libraries and Archives: Essays on Readers, Research, History and Cataloging. Elizabeth (FRW) Figa and Derek Parker Royal (forewords); Stephen Weiner (afterword) (illustrated ed.). McFarland. p. 211. ISBN 9780786443024. starting points: Eric Burns ... Websnark ... takes a populist approach ... Comixtalk ... a webcomics news source; Fleen ... a webcomics blog; Kidjutsu ... focuses on webcomics for kids ... Librarians can consult the Web Cartoonists' Choice Awards ... and the Eisner Awards

-84user (talk) 23:05, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Notability

Notwithstanding the previous talk page threads and deletion discussions, what are the indicia of notability for this award? The NYT mention is not significant or in depth. The reference in the Robert G. Weiner book is barely even a passing mention. So what references give rise to notability? _matic 04:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Good question. I just removed some unsourced or poorly sourced sentences about this award not being given out since 2008. Surely if a major award has ceased or gone on hiatus for a few years, that would generate some significant coverage in reliable sources. According to the timeline on the right side of the official site http://www.ccawards.com/ winners were announced on June 14, 2010, which would contradict claims that no awards were given out, however no winners are listed. If anyone can provide some clarity with some reliable sources that would be appreciated. Thanks, Starblueheather (talk) 15:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Non existant

So this was a set of "awards" (no actual awards of any kind?) given out by members of a forum, and the article continues to exist by dint of voting in defiance of policy and accusing people of being "racist against webcomics"? 92.25.58.165 (talk) 17:58, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

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