Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Military history: Difference between revisions

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			:''Please add requests for MILHIST participation to ]. This includes requests for comment, requested moves, articles for deletion, and more.''
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			== Requests for project input ==

			{{Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Military history/Requests for project input}}
	==Merge discussion for 12th Indiana==
	]
	An editor has requested for ] to be merged into ]. Since you had some involvement with ''12th Indiana Infantry Regiment (3 years)'' or ''12th Indiana Infantry Regiment'', you might want to participate in ] (if you have not already done so).<!-- from Template:MERGE notification-->

			== Nominations for military history newcomer of the year for 2024 are open! ==
	== Warning of doxxing of Misplaced Pages editors seen as opposing the Russian invasion of Ukraine ==
			<!-- ] 00:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC) -->
			<div style="text-align: center;"><span class="plainlinks" style="font-size:2.50em; font-weight: bold; width:100%; height: 100px; line-height: 50px; font-weight: bold; font-family: helvetica, impact, sans-serif; text-decoration: none; "><span style="color:#6e98c2">Military history newcomer </span> ] <span style="color:#6e98c2"> of the year 2024</span></span></div>

			<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><span id="MHNOTY"><gallery widths="60px" heights="60px" perrow="3">
	Editors working on topics relating to the ] should read post by Maggie Dennis, the Wikimedia Foundation's Vice President of Community Resilience & Sustainability. It discusses "an effort ... being made to identify Misplaced Pages editors whose activities are seen as opposing the Russian narrative of the war". See also ]. ] (]) 10:50, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
			Image:Goldenwiki 2.png\|''First place''
	:Evidence? ] (]) 11:20, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
			File:WikiprojectBarnstar.png\|''Runners up''
	::. Doxxing was done on Telegram. -] (]) 13:55, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
			</gallery></span></div>
	:Mark Bernshtein, Wiki-activist, was detained in ]. He is accused of the "spread of anti-Russian materials". We discussed this here ]. ] (]) 14:31, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

			As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. In addition to the Military historian of the year, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate a promising newcomer that they feel deserves a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months for the ]. The award is open to any editor who has become active in military history articles in the last 12 months.
	* Misplaced Pages's coverage should be neutral and not pro to either side, not simply non-pro Ukrainian / anti-Russian. ] (]) 17:51, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
	*:That's not how ] works. Neutral is "neutral according to the best sources". ] (] / ]) 18:27, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
	::* Fine, I gave a simple explanation, not implied anything counter to WP:NPOV. Regards, ] (]) 18:35, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
	:::*The issue is that editors are being targeted/at real risk of being targeted for posting material that runs counter to Russian propaganda. ] (]) 22:15, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
	::::: Understood, though I did not comment on it. ] (]) 22:24, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
	:Russian law punishes anyone who calls the war anything other than a "special operation" and spreads "misinformation" about the topic with up to 15 years in prison. In the past people have ended up in prison for far less (posting memes).--] (]) 23:29, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

			Like the Military Historian of the Year, the nomination process will begin at 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November 2024. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period will commence on 00:01 1 December 2024 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2024, the top editor will be awarded the Gold Wiki; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.
	'''Comment''' - the article has an edit notice. Would it be beneficial to extend the edit notice to state that editors in Russia need to edit with extreme caution, due to the penalties that could be imposed? ] (]) 17:44, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
	: <s>Yes or a general note about neutral editing per ], and other polices.</s> (Nevermind, this is not relevant to real question.) ] (]) 17:53, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
	::Well, if you can come up with suitable wording, I or another admin can amend the edit notice. Would suggest that the Russian flag is prominently displayed with the text. We shouldn't need to remind editors of NPOV in the edit notice. This needs to be aimed at making editors in Russia aware of the potential consequenses if they do decide to edit the article. ] (]) 18:03, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
	::: The hazards of public speech are not specific to a particular article or topic, nor just to one country. I would not take it upon myself to point out that something in particular is unsafe, lest someone infer something else is safer, and suffer for it given the arbitrariness with which oppressive laws can be applied. I’m afraid it’s mainly up to editors to understand their own risks. (But does Wikimedia or en.wiki have any guidelines or advice for them?) —''] ].'' 18:50, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

			Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self-nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! On behalf of all the coordinators, ] ] 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
	== Proposed splitting the article "Military academies in Russia" ==

			#{{user\|CommissarDoggo}}: A new joiner to the project this year, their work includes bringing the American VC winner ] to GA and expanding ] from stub to B class. ] (]) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
	I suggest to split the article "Military academies in Russia". The detailed description is here ]. ] (]) 21:52, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
			#{{user\|Matarisvan}}: Significant additions to Indian military history, a notoriously difficult topic on Misplaced Pages - they have also since been voted a coordinator of the WikiProject. ] (]) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
			#{{user\|Klutserke}}: Second World War naval history, including the significant expansion and re-writing of ] and the creation of articles including ]. ] (]) 21:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
			#{{user\|Wahreit}}: Can I nominate Wahreit for extensive editing to ] articles like the ] and the ]. He joined Misplaced Pages in April 2024 and has done good work from the beginning. Oh and plus 25k to ] ] (]) 00:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

			=== Voting===
			Nominations for this year's "military history newcomer of the year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

			The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done below by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to nominee's sections. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.
	I'd like to make a point about the discussion ]. I've just prepared the texts of proposed future articles. I don't know how to make a splitting, so maybe will someone help with this? The texts of the articles is shown below

			All project members are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.

			Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, ] ] 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			====CommissarDoggo====

			# <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> (]<big>·</big>]<big>·</big>]) <span style="font-size:80%">Isn't a IP anon</span>
	The article '''Military-focused secondary schools in Russia'''
			# ] (]) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			#] (]) 05:46, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			#] (]) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			#] (]) 13:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Klutserke====
	Russian military-focused secondary schools are usual secondary schools conducting secondary general education programme (level 3 according ]) and providing their pupils with training in additional military-focused subjects. These schools don't prepare military personnel, and their graduates can choose either military or civilian way of life.
			# ] (]) 11:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 15:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Matarisvan====
	The section ''List of Russian military-focused secondary schools''
			# ] (]) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] ] 04:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 07:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 11:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 19:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# - ] (]) 01:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 17:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Wahreit====
	Presidential Cadet Schools:
			# ] (]) 11:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
	* Kemerovo Presidential Cadet School
			#] (]) 13:41, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	*Krasnodar Presidential Cadet School
	*Kyzyl Presidential Cadet School
	*Orenburg Presidential Cadet School
	*Petrozavodsk Presidential Cadet School
	*Stavropol Presidential Cadet School
	*Tyumen Presidential Cadet School

			== Nominations for military historian of the year for 2024 are open! ==
	Cadet Corps Schools:
	* Aksay Cossack Cadet Corps named after Danila Efremov
	* ]
	* Omsk Cadet Corps
	* Saint Petersburg Cadet Corps
	* Cadet Corps (Engineering School) within ]
	* Cadet Corps (Sport School) within ]
	* Cadet Corps of IT-technologies within ]
	* Moscow female finishing school of the Ministry of Defence of Russian Federation
	* Saint Petersburg female finishing school of the Ministry of Defence of Russian Federation

			<!-- ] 00:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC) -->
	Suvorov Schools:
			<div style="text-align: center;"><span class="plainlinks" style="font-size:2.50em; font-weight: bold; width:100%; height: 100px; line-height: 50px; font-weight: bold; font-family: helvetica, impact, sans-serif; text-decoration: none; "><span style="color:#6e98c2">Military historian</span> ] <span style="color:#6e98c2">of the year 2024</span></span></div>
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* North Caucasus Suvorov Military School
	* Perm Suvorov Military School
	* Saint Petersburg Suvorov Military School
	* ]
	* Tver Suvorov Military School
	* Ulyanovsk Suvorov Military School
	* Ussuriysk Suvorov Military School
	* ]

			<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><span id="MHOTY"><gallery widths="60px" heights="60px" perrow="3">
	Nakhimov Schools:
			Image:Goldenwiki 2.png\|''First place''
	* ] (main campus is located in ], there are branches in ], ], ], ])
			Image:Silverwiki 2.png\|''Second place''
			Image:Bronzewiki 2.png\|''Third place''
			</gallery></span></div>

			As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. As part of the first step to determining this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate those that they feel deserve a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months.
	The section ''External links''

			The nomination process will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period of will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 1 December during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 on 30 December, the top three editors will be awarded the Gold, Silver and Bronze Wiki respectively; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.


			Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, ] ] 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

			# {{user\|noclador}}: Since 2005 has been working mainly on articles about the Italian Army. In 2023 started a project to write articles for all the Italian Army units active after WWII. Since August 2023 noclador has brought to B-class 298 articles about units of the Italian Army, of which 289 were created from scratch. Created 145 articles in 2023 and 2024. ] ] 18:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|MSGJ}}: Has worked on our ] and the ] ] and ] to implement changes required for our A-class reviews. ] ] 19:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
			#:Thanks. A barn star would be appreciated but this nomination ... seems excessive — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 13:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|Zawed}}: Another year, another seemingly endless quantity of New Zealand-related articles. From the Second World War and articles such as ], to the 1869 ], Zawed consistently produces a variety of high quality content. ] (]) 21:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|Donner60}} - for extensive behind-the-scenes work as a coordinator, especially their tireless work with the assessment process. ] <sub> '']''</sub> 15:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|Pickersgill-Cunliffe}} - prodigious output of articles relating to British naval ships, e.g. ] and personalities, and also heavily involved in reviewing articles. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|Hog Farm}} - another editor with a strong article output, this time relating mostly to the US Civil war, e.g. ]. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|Hawkeye7}} - yet another editor with tremendous output, particularly in military logistics e.g. ]. Does a lot of backroom stuff for the project. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
			# {{user\|Simongraham}} - works away on naval ships, with many articles created and taken up to GA, e.g. ]. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

			===Voting===
	The article '''Military warrant officer schools in Russia'''

			Nominations for this year's "Military History Newcomer of the Year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.
	The military warrant officer schools are educational institutions conducting the training career warrant officer programmes. Education acquired at such schools is ] military education (level 4 according ]). The duration of studies is 2 years and 6-10 months. Graduates of these schools are assigned the ] of ]/].

			The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to the nominee's section below. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.
	At the moment, there are no separate warrant officer schools in Russia. The training warrant officer programmes are conducted by military educational institutions which also offer ].

			All editors are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.
	The section ''List of Russian military educational institutions conducting training warrant officer programmes''
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* Krasnodar Higher Military School named after army general S.M. Shtemenko
	* ]
	* Mikhailovskaya Military Artillery Academy
	* Military Academy of Field Anti-Aircraft Defense
	* ]
	* ]
	* Military University of Radioelectronics
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* Tyumen Higher Military Engineer Command School named after A.I. Proshlyakov

			Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, ] ] 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
	The section ''External links''

			====Donner60====

			# ] ] 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 07:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 15:55, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Hawkeye7====
			# ] (]) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 05:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 07:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (])
			# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			#] (]) 14:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Hog Farm====
			# <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> (]<big>·</big>]<big>·</big>]) <span style="font-size:80%">Isn't a IP anon</span>
			# ] (]) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 19:43, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

			====MSGJ====
	The article '''Military commissioning schools in Russia'''
			# ] ] 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			#] (]) 14:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Noclador====
	The military commissioning schools are educational institutions conducting the training career commissioned officer programmes. Education acquired at such schools is ] military education (level 6 according ]). These programmes are named specialitet ({{lang-ru\|специалитет}}) and take 5 years. Graduates of commissioning schools are assigned the ] of ].
			# ] (]) 19:42, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 12:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 17:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
			#] (]) 14:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Pickersgill-Cunliffe====
	The commissioning schools are the first (tactical) level of officer training. Their graduates are appointed as platoon/company commanders and at equivalent positions. After several years of active duty service they can entry ] for ].
			# ] ] 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
			# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Simongraham====
	At the moment, some commissioning schools also conduct ] programmes.
			# ] (]) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Zawed====
	The section ''List of Russian military educational institutions conducting training commissioning officer programmes''
			# ] (]) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 11:53, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
			# ] (]) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Help needed for draft ==
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* Kazan Higher Tank Command School
	* Krasnodar Higher Military School named after army general S.M. Shtemenko
	* Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation School of Pilots
	* ]
	* Mikhailovskaya Military Artillery Academy
	* Military Academy of Field Anti-Aircraft Defense
	* ]
	* ]
	* Military University of Radioelectronics
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* Novosibirsk Higher Military Command School
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* Tyumen Higher Military Engineering Command School named after A.I. Proshlyakov
	* Yaroslavl Higher Military School of Anti-Aircraft Warfare
	* ]
	* ]

			I am currently working on a ], may I ask if anyone has any feedback or extra third-party sources on the unit?
	The section ''External links''

			Also the article already ]. ] (]) 07:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)


			== AJ3 Tiger? ==

			about the ] mentions some firefighting aircraft, the last of which is described as "an AJ3 Tiger, a post war navy bomber". I'm baffled what that might be - neither the ] nor ] (originally A3J) seem likely. Does anywhere here have any clues? ] (]) 04:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			: The only references to "AJ3 Tiger" I'm finding on the Internet appear to originate with that newspaper article, so I think it's probably an error in the original reporting. ] <sub> '']''</sub> 04:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	The article '''Military post-commissioning schools in Russia'''
			:: I'd suspect it was a ], as several were used as water bombers by AJ Air Tankers, first flying missions during 1961. "AJ Tanker" could easily be corrupted into "AJ Tiger" depending on the quality of the draft writing, with the 3 coming from a scribbled AJ-2? - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			:: {{ping\|Pi.1415926535}} And looking at this more - seeing as the source describes it as "a post-war navy bomber", it's all but certain that yeah, it's a North American AJ Savage! - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	The military post-commissioning schools are educational institutions conducting the advance training career commissioned officer programmes. These programmes improve the military occupational specialty knowledge of commissioned officers. These programmes are named magistratura ({{lang-ru\|магистратура}}) and take 2 years. Officer wishing to join the program shall comply with the entry requirements illustrated below<ref name="Order185">{{cite act\|type=Order\|index=185\|date=7 April 2015\|legislature=]\|title=Об утверждении Порядка и условий приёма в образовательные организации высшего образования, находящиеся в ведении Министерства обороны Российской Федерации\|language=ru\|url=https://docs.cntd.ru/document/420269638}}</ref>
			::* Good deal. That seems much more likely for a ''post''-war bomber to be in use around 1961. ] (]) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

	{\| class="wikitable"
	\|+
	\|-
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Reached educational level
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Years of active duty service as commissioned officer
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Military rank (no lower than)
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Military position<br>(years of experience)
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Expected number of years of active duty service after graduation until general upper age limit for tenure
	\|-
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Military school or Military training center<br>(tactical level)
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| no less than 7 years
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| ]/]
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| ]/]'s positions<br>(1 year at least)
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| 5 years at least
	\|-
	\|}

	The military post-commissioning schools are the second (operational-tactical) level of officer training. Their graduates can be appointed to battalion/regiment/brigade commander or equivalent positions.

	At the moment, some post-commissioning schools also conduct the training ] and ] programmes.

	A special case is ] which is the third (strategic) level of officer training. This academy prepares highest ranking military officers. The educational programme at Military Academy of the General Staff takes 2 years. Officer wishing to join the program shall comply with the entry requirements illustrated below<ref name="Order185"/>

	{\| class="wikitable"
	\|+
	\|-
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Reached educational level
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Years of active duty service as commissioned officer
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Military rank (no lower than)
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Military position<br>(years of experience)
	! style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Expected number of years of active duty service after graduation until general upper age limit for tenure
	\|-
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| Military academy<br>(operational-tactical level)
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| -
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| ]/]
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| ]/]'s positions<br>(1 year at least)
	\| style="text-align: center; width: 250px;" \| 5 years at least
	\|-
	\|}

	The section ''List of Russian military educational institutions conducting training post-commissioning officer programmes''

	* ]

	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* Krasnodar Higher Military School named after army general S.M. Shtemenko
	* ]
	* Mikhailovskaya Military Artillery Academy
	* Military Academy of Field Anti-Aircraft Defense
	* ]
	* Military University of Radioelectronics
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]
	* ]

	The section ''External links''





	{{reflist-talk}}

	] (]) 12:56, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

	== Armor-piercing ammunition ==

	This article is a train wreck. There are almost zero citations, numerous errors, half facts, and other fun and exciting prizes. It might be best to put it on a speedy delete list. Failing that, perhaps we can put a team together to overhaul the article. I might also suggest merging this into another article. ] (]) 01:51, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
	:{{Yo\|Tirronan}} what page would you suggest merging ] into? Also, have you considered ] to the page yourself? You you would do just that back in 2019 on the article talk. Your comments also indicate you may have some ] on this topic, along with access to relevant reliable sources, so any changes you make would likely be a good way to get the ball rolling towards improvement. (jmho) Cheers - '']'' 17:51, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
	::I do in fact know something about it. Mind you that a real expert is going to be found at the Yuma testing range or the Aberdeen facility. I'd prefer that someone collaborate with me to help with some of the research if that is possible. Otherwise, I am coming across as a solo effort.] (]) 06:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	:::{{Yo\|Tirronan}} It's usually (but not always) nice to have help, but if you have an interest in improving an article, don't let appearances get in the way. If no one steps up to offer assistance, ] to work on the article anyway.<p>The only thing that really matters is that ], that they are ], and that they don't otherwise violate any ], eg: ], etc. Cheers - '']'' 19:04, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	::::Aye then. ] (]) 04:46, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

	== Erich Hartmann ==
	A new editor {{ping\|RossiLeone}} is making good faith edits which are not very helpful. I want to avoid a ] situation. Please assist ] (]) 12:08, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
	: sorted out now, no action required ] (]) 07:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

	== Help needed at CCI ==

	The following Contributor copyright investigation case - ] has recently been opened which is relevant to this Wikiproject. The editor in question (who has since been blocked) has created large numbers of articles about warships, and the more hands to help the better.] (]) 19:11, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

	== Project Scope ==

	I've seen a few articles covering historical military figures with debated existence listed as part of this project, and I'm curious if they fall under the scope of this project. ---] (]) 21:15, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

	: Military figures fall within the scope of the project. Whether they deserve an article or not depends on whether or not that they have significant coverage in reliable sources (]). It is possible for a figure whose existent is contested (eg. ]) to warrant an article. ] ] 21:36, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
	:: Emphasis on military figure. They fall under the project if their involvement in military matters contributed towards their notability or was a significant part of their life. Merely being a veteran, for example, doesn't make someone fall under milhist. -] (]) 01:05, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

	== Additional standard terms for parameter result in infobox Military conflict ==

	In the ] the result within Infobox Military conflict says: "Inconclusive (See the Aftermath Section)". The Aftermath section says: "Napoleon was in a position to claim a strategic victory." ] says: "A strategic victory is a victory that brings long-term advantage to the victor and disturbs the enemy's ability to wage a war." The Documentation of Infobox Military conflict says: "Result: The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict" and "Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much."<br>
	All this shows that the term "victory" as a result does not help in complex campaigns. I suggest adding to the documentation of Infobox military conflict for the parameter Result three new terms: "X advance", "X retreat" and "X standstill". The outcome of the Battle of Berezina will be:<br> French retreat<br>Russian advance.<br>The outcome of the even more complex ] will be instead of "See Aftermath":<br> French standstill<br>Russian retreat.<br>] (]) 17:21, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
	:There are some battles and even wars that have the same issue. ] quickly comes to mind. As does The ]. ] and come to think on it ] are particularly thorny. Oh, and we have the ] as well. We need a process that is different from the way that is not working right now. Really complex battles and wars don't always fit our way of doing things. It ends up with endless squabbling without real answers. I'm going to suggest that such articles be worked over by designated teams and locked.] (]) 06:56, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	::No, never, this is a recipie for endless hair splitting, see aftermath is a far better way of dealing with the subtleties, the solution is to write a better aftermath section. Regards ] (]) 07:07, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	:::Agreed. If the result is sufficiently complex that neither side can be unambiguously called a "victor" then the solution is not to cram more and more information into an infobox but to omit the argument or, as an alternative, to refer to a section of the prose that describes the outcome. As per ]: {{tq\|he purpose of an infobox to summarize key facts that appear in the article The less information contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance.}} Adding additional qualifiers would also result in a bunch of (in my view rather pointless) infighting regarding which qualifier to use for any specific battle where a few sources describe it as a "pyrrhic victory for A", others call it a "tactical victory for A", a few more use "strategic victory for B" and the rest do not use any specific modifiers. ] (]) 07:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	:::Agree per Keith-264 and Ljleppan. ] (]) 10:35, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	:::Strong agreement here as well. ] ⁂ ] 10:54, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
	::::Agreed, point closed. I will look into the aftermath section. ] (]) 16:29, 22 March 2022 (UTC) {{reply to\|A._C._Santacruz}}

	==1975 RAAF aircraft hijacking==
	I've opened a discussion about the possibility of creating an article on the hijacking of a RAAF aircraft in 1975. Discussion at ]. ] (]) 09:34, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

	== Citations button question ==

	The citations button in the edit page has disappeared and I can't find it in the preferences page. I had a look in preferences and changed a couple of things before noticing that it had gone but nothing that was connected. Can anyone shed light on this pls? Thanks ] (]) 13:25, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
	:{{Yo\|Keith-264}} Just an fyi, but the cite button is still present in my edit window. Have you considered restoring your preferences to default? Cheers - '']'' 18:04, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
	::I think I'd better continue with trial and error. ;O) ] (]) 19:03, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

	== 18th-century Spain in infoboxes ==

	Hi all, just wanted to leave a courtesy notification that I changed a few links in conflict infoboxes for 18th-century Spain from ] to ], but I don't know how widespread this practice was, and only looked at the members of {{cat\|Naval battles of the American Revolutionary War involving Spain}}. Some of those linked to {{no redirect\|Bourbon Spain}}, which redirects to the 1700–1810 article. I thought it was strange that we'd link to an article about intellectual and scientific development—even if it's a common way of referring to that time period—in a historical or military context. A clue was that some of these infoboxes had linked to {{no redirect\|Enlightenment Spain}} (not <u>in</u> Spain), which better captures the meaning of "Enlightenment<u>-era</u> Spain".

	Given the inconsistency I came across, I didn't think I was going against any solid consensus, but just in case. Beyond that one category, I'm not sure what the linking looks like. Feel free to ping me if needed. --] (]) 16:01, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

	== FAR for Tiridates I of Armenia ==

	I have nominated ] for a ]. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets ]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are ].<!--Template:FARMessage--> ] (]) 17:47, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:33, 25 December 2024

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Talk:Battle of the Java Sea#Recent edits changing scope of article

An editor has effectively changed to scope of the article by incorporating subsequent engagements (with their own stand-alone articles) as being part of this battle. Further input would be welcome. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on the renaming of the article Allegations of United States support for the Khmer Rouge

Please see here for a discussion about renaming Allegations of United States support for the Khmer Rouge to United States support for the Khmer Rouge. FOARP (talk) 17:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

RFC on Russian invasion of Ukraine

THere's currently a discussion about whether or not to include North Korea as a co-belligerent. Please feel free to comment. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 13:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Peruvian Civil War of 1980–2000#Requested move 19 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Peruvian Civil War of 1980–2000#Requested move 19 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 19:13, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Edwin of Northumbria

Edwin of Northumbria has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Angevin kings of England

Angevin kings of England has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Borsoka (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:RSM-56 Bulava#Requested move 3 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:RSM-56 Bulava#Requested move 3 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Frostly (talk) 06:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Yemeni civil war (2014–present)#Requested move 7 December 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Yemeni civil war (2014–present)#Requested move 7 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Abo Yemen ✉ 13:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

RM to lowercase North Yemen Civil War

An ongoing RM to lowercase is at Talk:North Yemen Civil War#Requested move 28 November 2024. It has been relisted and may be of interest to editors of this WikiProject. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

United Kingdom Special Forces has an RfC

United Kingdom Special Forces has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Melbguy05 (talk) 07:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Wahhabi War#Requested move 26 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Wahhabi War#Requested move 26 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 17:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Manbij offensive#Requested move 9 December 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Manbij offensive#Requested move 9 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Capture of Damascus#Requested move 9 December 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Capture of Damascus#Requested move 9 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Second Nagorno-Karabakh War#RfC on inclusion of Syrian mercenaries in infobox

Please see subject RfC. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 18 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 18 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Armenian-occupied territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh#Requested move 18 December 2024

Please see subject discussion. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Battle of Thermopylae

Battle of Thermopylae has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 19:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Second Nagorno-Karabakh War#Dubious tag

The phrase disputed territory in the territory parameter of the infobox has been tagged as dubious. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for 1st Brigade, 7th Infantry Division (United States)

1st Brigade, 7th Infantry Division (United States) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm _Talk 20:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Mark Kellogg (reporter)

Mark Kellogg (reporter) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Nominations for military history newcomer of the year for 2024 are open!

Military history newcomer

of the year 2024

First place
Runners up

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. In addition to the Military historian of the year, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate a promising newcomer that they feel deserves a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months for the Military history newcomer of the year award. The award is open to any editor who has become active in military history articles in the last 12 months.

Like the Military Historian of the Year, the nomination process will begin at 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November 2024. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period will commence on 00:01 1 December 2024 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2024, the top editor will be awarded the Gold Wiki; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self-nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! On behalf of all the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

CommissarDoggo (talk · contribs): A new joiner to the project this year, their work includes bringing the American VC winner William Henry Harrison Seeley to GA and expanding Michael Wettlaufer from stub to B class. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Matarisvan (talk · contribs): Significant additions to Indian military history, a notoriously difficult topic on Misplaced Pages - they have also since been voted a coordinator of the WikiProject. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Klutserke (talk · contribs): Second World War naval history, including the significant expansion and re-writing of HMS Sheffield (C24) and the creation of articles including 8.8 cm SK C/25 naval gun. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Wahreit (talk · contribs): Can I nominate Wahreit for extensive editing to Second Sino-Japanese War articles like the Battle of Shanghai and the Battle of Sihang Warehouse. He joined Misplaced Pages in April 2024 and has done good work from the beginning. Oh and plus 25k to Battle of Nanking Alexysun (talk) 00:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Voting

Nominations for this year's "military history newcomer of the year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done below by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (~~~~) to nominee's sections. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

All project members are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.

Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

CommissarDoggo

2601AC47 (talk·contribs·my rights) Isn't a IP anon
Gog the Mild (talk) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Wiki king 100000 (talk) 05:46, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Internationed (talk) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Kerbyki (talk) 13:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Klutserke

Matarisvan

Wahreit

Nominations for military historian of the year for 2024 are open!

Military historian

of the year 2024

First place
Second place
Third place

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. As part of the first step to determining this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate those that they feel deserve a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months.

The nomination process will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period of will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 1 December during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 on 30 December, the top three editors will be awarded the Gold, Silver and Bronze Wiki respectively; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

noclador (talk · contribs): Since 2005 has been working mainly on articles about the Italian Army. In 2023 started a project to write articles for all the Italian Army units active after WWII. Since August 2023 noclador has brought to B-class 298 articles about units of the Italian Army, of which 289 were created from scratch. Created 145 articles in 2023 and 2024. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
MSGJ (talk · contribs): Has worked on our Template:WikiProject Military history and the Lua Module:Banner shell and Module:WikiProject banner to implement changes required for our A-class reviews. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. A barn star would be appreciated but this nomination ... seems excessive — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Zawed (talk · contribs): Another year, another seemingly endless quantity of New Zealand-related articles. From the Second World War and articles such as Mick Ensor, to the 1869 Battle of Te Pōrere, Zawed consistently produces a variety of high quality content. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Donner60 (talk · contribs) - for extensive behind-the-scenes work as a coordinator, especially their tireless work with the assessment process. Hog Farm _Talk 15:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) - prodigious output of articles relating to British naval ships, e.g. HMS Regulus (1785) and personalities, and also heavily involved in reviewing articles. Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Hog Farm (talk · contribs) - another editor with a strong article output, this time relating mostly to the US Civil war, e.g. Edward W. Gantt. Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) - yet another editor with tremendous output, particularly in military logistics e.g. Operation Matterhorn logistics. Does a lot of backroom stuff for the project. Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Simongraham (talk · contribs) - works away on naval ships, with many articles created and taken up to GA, e.g. HMS Harpy (1909). Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Voting

Nominations for this year's "Military History Newcomer of the Year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (~~~~) to the nominee's section below. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

All editors are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.

Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Donner60

Hawkeye7

Hog Farm

2601AC47 (talk·contribs·my rights) Isn't a IP anon
Gog the Mild (talk) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Donner60 (talk) 19:43, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

MSGJ

Noclador

Pickersgill-Cunliffe

Simongraham

Kierzek (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Zawed

Help needed for draft

I am currently working on a draft on the Chinese 7th marine brigade(more commonly known as the Jiaolong commandos), may I ask if anyone has any feedback or extra third-party sources on the unit?

Also the article already exists on chinese wikipedia. Thehistorianisaac (talk) 07:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

AJ3 Tiger?

This 1961 newspaper article about the Harlow Fire mentions some firefighting aircraft, the last of which is described as "an AJ3 Tiger, a post war navy bomber". I'm baffled what that might be - neither the Douglas A-3 Skywarrior nor North American A-5 Vigilante (originally A3J) seem likely. Does anywhere here have any clues? Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

The only references to "AJ3 Tiger" I'm finding on the Internet appear to originate with that newspaper article, so I think it's probably an error in the original reporting. Hog Farm _Talk 04:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd suspect it was a AJ Savage, as several were used as water bombers by AJ Air Tankers, first flying missions during 1961. "AJ Tanker" could easily be corrupted into "AJ Tiger" depending on the quality of the draft writing, with the 3 coming from a scribbled AJ-2? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: And looking at this more - seeing as the source describes it as "a post-war navy bomber", it's all but certain that yeah, it's a North American AJ Savage! - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Good deal. That seems much more likely for a post-war bomber to be in use around 1961. -Fnlayson (talk) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

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