Misplaced Pages

Talk:Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 07:12, 25 April 2022 editLightandDark2000 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers62,349 edits →Requested move 22 April 2022: I think that renaming this article would be in our best interests.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 20:56, 26 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,307,002 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1) (bot 
(173 intermediate revisions by 61 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{talk header}}
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|e-e}}
{{gs/talk notice|topic=rusukr}}
{{Old moves
|title1=Eastern Ukrainge offensive
|title2=Eastern Ukraine camplaign
|list=
*RM, Eastern Ukraine offensive → Northeastern Ukraine offensive, '''withdrawn''', 3 March 2022, ]
*RM, Eastern Ukraine offensive → Southearstern Ukraine offensive, '''no consensus''', 18 March 2022,]
*RM, Eastern Ukraine offensive → Donbas offensive, '''no consensus''', 22 April 2022, ]
*RM, Eastern Ukraine offensive → Eastern Ukraine Campaign '''moved''', 13 October 2022,]
}}
{{afd-merged-from|Horlivka offensive|Horlivka offensive|4 April 2022}} {{afd-merged-from|Horlivka offensive|Horlivka offensive|4 April 2022}}
{{afd-merged-from|Battle of Orlivka|Battle of Orlivka|9 April 2024}}
{{wpbs|
{{WPIR|class=Start}} {{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1=
{{WikiProject International relations|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Military history|European=y|Post-Cold-War=y|Russian=y|class=C|b1=no|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}} {{WikiProject Military history|European=y|Post-Cold-War=y|Russian=y|class=C|b1=no|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}}
{{WP Russia|mil=y|law=y|class=Start}} {{WikiProject Russia|importance=mid|mil=y|law=y}}
{{WikiProject Ukraine|class=C|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject Ukraine|importance=high}}
}} }}
{{Image requested|in=Ukraine}}
{{page views}} {{page views}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
| algo = old(365d)
| archive = Talk:Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive %(counter)d
| counter = 1
| maxarchivesize = 150K
| archiveheader = {{Archive}}
| minthreadstoarchive = 1
| minthreadsleft = 0
}}


== Marinka city? ==
{{old move|date=3 March 2022|destination=Northeastern Ukraine offensive|result=withdrawn by nominator|link=Special:Permalink/1076315177#Requested move 3 March 2022}}


In the status part of the infobox, it lists that Russia captured the cities of Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Marinka. I understand the first two, but Marinka? Marinka is not a city but a suburb of Donetsk City. I propose removing Marinka from the list of cities taken by Russia in Eastern Ukraine. ] (]) 02:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
== Source collection dump ==
Please add sources to this list so we can build up this article. We created this way too late so a lot of sources have been lost in the furor. ] (]) 00:22, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

*Chernihiv Oblast (not Chernihiv though):

*Donetsk Oblast:

*Kharkiv Oblast:

*Luhansk Oblast:

*Sumy Oblast:
: Added some content (and sources) to this article (too lazy to put them all here). ] (]) 00:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
::Thanks! Yeah this is just a list to toss-in source that need to be added in. Obv if the sources are already in the article, then it's fine lol ] (]) 17:06, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

== Improve image in infobox ==
The image on the infobox show only from Konotop to Sumy, Kharkiv is not visible, and it is a static image.
Can someone replace it with a crop of that shows the whole offensive. ] (]) 01:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

== Requested move 3 March 2022 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: '''withdrawn by nominator.''' after seven days have passed. <small>(])</small> ] (] '''·''' ]) 13:19, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
----

] → {{no redirect|Northeastern Ukraine offensive}} – To distinguish it from the offensive in Donbass and the Kherson offensive.] (]) 12:47, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
:'''Comment:''' Can you please provide a list of sources that separate it by calling it a northeastern offensive or similar term like axis/campiagn? We shouldn't change it just because of geography. Advances in Donbass are already mentioned here. ] (]) 14:22, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
::Sources? It's an evolving situation. Where were the sources for "Eastern" when ity was created? Let's be practical here. The operation in Donbass is completely different to what is happening near Kharkiv. ] (]) 14:33, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
:::We don't make up names here. What is your proof that it is different? Or has a different objective? ] (]) 14:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
::::Where was the proof that it was "Eastern" at the time of creation? ] (]) 08:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''  There is no <ins>article on the</ins> ]. Wasn’t this article spun off in ] from the main article’s section ], which would include the Donbas region? Maybe some renaming or re-scoping of these sections and articles would improve the situation, but on the face of it this single move doesn’t look like that.&nbsp;—'']&nbsp;].'' 20:09, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

* '''Support:''' Seems like you are right. ISW does state that Russia had different goals for the Kharkiv axis and Donbas axis. . And so does Reuters. ] (]) 20:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. ISW recently changed its terminology from "Northeast front" to "Kharkiv" The Chernihiv and Konotop/Sumy axes are now treated as subsidiary to the main Kyiv effort. Mariupol and Kherson are the two remaining "efforts" that ISW is using. Regardless, Donbass efforts are basically unconnected to Kharkiv right now, and really should at least be in their own section and not intermixed with Kharkiv to avoid confusing readers who aren't familiar with the geography of the country. - ] (]) 02:49, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

* '''Oppose''' similar reason with ] above. also keep in mind this is an ongoing conflict, so i think its best to keep the most conservative definition and not jump the conclusion yet (]) 03:00, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

*'''Oppose'''' this doesn't just cover the north east, it even includes Mariupol. — ''']''' 23:04, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

* '''Support''' Northeast Ukraine is the actual theater. And if an offensive developed further south, it seems likely to be treated as something distinct. It makes sense to reserve "Eastern Ukraine" in the unfortunate, but unfortunately possible, event that it is needed. (This will also require renaming the section in the parent article, ] to ]) ] (]) 16:51, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

* '''Lean oppose''' for rename, with preference to leave this one as is, and move the Donbas stuff to a Donbas article. The ] has been describing this as a 4 axis war. ] (]) 09:21, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Note''' am now inclined to create a separate article for northeastern theatre leaving this to to the Kharkiv theatre (Eastern). A future southeastern theatre could probably be rolled into the Donbass theatre. ] (]) 14:24, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Done''' Have a look at ]. ] (]) 21:44, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Withdraw''' proposal. ] (]) 13:40, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] -->
</div><div style="clear:both;"></div>

== Battle of Kharkiv ==

To which theatre of war does this battle belong? To the ] or the ]? ] (]) 20:36, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
: ].&nbsp;—'']&nbsp;].'' 20:50, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
::Disagree. Being that the offensive in Sumy and Chernihiv (Northeast Ukraine) has ended, its more useful to think of Kharkiv as part of the Eastern Ukraine offenseive now. ] (]) 05:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

== Requested move 18 March 2022 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 1em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top (modified) -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''
----

<span id="reqmovetag"></span>{{check talk wp}}
{{If mobile|tag=div
| '''Result:'''<br />''']''' ] – {{diff|Misplaced Pages:Closure requests#Talk:Eastern Ukraine offensive#Requested move 18 March 2022|next|1083782183|<small><permalink></small>}}. See no agreement below to rename this article to the proposed title. No prejudice to begin a new RM for the "Donbas" usage. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can discover new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again to garner consensus in a few months for this name change. Thanks and ] to editors for your input; ]''!'' ''''']'''''&numsp;-&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;<small>18:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)</small>
----
| {{Tmbox
|small =
|imageright =
|image = ]
|type = move
|text = It was proposed in this section that ] be ]&#32;to {{no redirect|Southeastern Ukraine offensive}}.
----
<small>'''{{smallcaps|result:}}'''</small><br />''']''' ] – {{diff|Misplaced Pages:Closure requests#Talk:Eastern Ukraine offensive#Requested move 18 March 2022|next|1083782183|<small><permalink></small>}}. See no agreement below to rename this article to the proposed title. No prejudice to begin a new RM for the "Donbas" usage. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can discover new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again to garner consensus in a few months for this name change. Thanks and ] to editors for your input; ]''!'' ''''']'''''&numsp;-&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;<small>18:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)</small>
----
<div class="floatleft" style="font-size:75%">''Move logs: {{·}} ''</div>
<div class="floatright" style="font-size:65%">''This is template {{tls|Requested move/end}}''</div>
<!-- This is template "Requested move/end". -->
}}
}}


:It is officially a city, see ]. ] (]) 22:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
] → {{no redirect|Southeastern Ukraine offensive}}
While this article covers only the military operations in the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts in southeastern Ukraine, this article is titled "Eastern Ukraine offensive." This can confuse our readers into thinking that the article covers offensive operations in both the northeastern and southeastern Ukraine regions, when this is clearly not the case. This article used to cover military operations in both northeastern and southeastern Ukraine. However, ever since content in this article pertaining to northeastern Ukraine was split off into ], the title for this article has not been updated accordingly to reflect the changes. Since we already have an article titled Northeastern Ukraine offensive, I propose moving this article to '''Southeastern Ukraine offensive''', per ]. ''''']''''' 🌀 (]) 02:50, 18 March 2022 (UTC)<small>—&nbsp;'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;] (]) 04:02, 8 April 2022 (UTC)</small>
* {{gray|<s>Strongly Support</s>}}<!-- fyi, in requested moves the nomination is considered support for the page move. No need for a separate, bulleted support. --> – As the proposer. The current title is too vague and confusing, especially since ] also exists. ''''']''''' 🌀 (]) 02:50, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
:* '''Comment:''' I am also fine with '''supporting''' a renaming to ], but the current article title is unacceptably vague, as any reader can easily be misled into thinking that the article covers ALL of eastern Ukraine when the fact is that it merely covers the two Donbass oblasts. ''''']''''' 🌀 (]) 03:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Since the Battle of Kharviv is now in the Northeastern theatre then this theatre is effectively about the war in the Donbas. ] (]) 10:24, 18 March 2022 (UTC)


== Referring to russian push as a "breakthrough" ==
*While I concur that a page move is the best choice of action, I think '''Donbas offensive''' would be the preferred target. The ] and southeast Ukraine are basically the same thing, and like this it removes any possible confusion regarding the application of southeast Ukraine to other areas. Markedly referring to it as the Donbas makes it clear that this is referring only to action in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. ] have also been referring to this as the Donbas offensive ( ), so I think it makes more sense. ] (]) 12:02, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''  Everyone’s been reading about the Donbas war “in eastern Ukraine” for eight years. I don’t see any confusion at all in “eastern” referring to the east and “northeastern” referring to the northeast. “Donbas” might be acceptable, but is it wise to pick a name restricted to the borders of the two Donbas oblasts?&nbsp;—'']&nbsp;].'' 21:38, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
*: And, I’m sorry, then do we rename the ] to avoid “vagueness and confusion,” or what? The argument to rename is devoid of logic.&nbsp;—'']&nbsp;].'' 23:17, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
*:They were reading it this way because there was no war in Kharkiv, which is also eastern Ukraine. And now, as there is also war in Kharkiv, and it is descibed in another article, such a notation became ambiguous. I would rather prefer "Donbas offensive" to "Southeastern Ukraine offensive", but anyway both are much better than "Eastern Ukraine offensive". ] (]) 11:41, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per ]'s comment. ] (]) 23:10, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
* '''Support''' to distinguish it from Kharkiv. Donbas offensive (2022) is even better. ] (]) 20:37, 20 March 2022 (UTC)


None of the sources in the "Russian breakthroughs and capture of Avdiivka (January 2024–present)" section actually refer to the Russian actions as a "breakthrough". IMHO using "breakthrough" here constitutes ] at the very least, if not full on ] and should be replaced with more neutral language such as "push" or "confrontation". pinging @] ] (]) 01:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as an unnecessary fractionation. ] (]) 13:34, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
:'''Query''' How is it a fractionation? The entirely of the territory in the current scope will remain, just under a new name. It's not being split. ] (]) 17:48, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' proposal, but '''support''' moving into ]. --] (]) 12:55, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as awkward and obscure. The logical title would be ]. Brackets are required to distinguish from earlier fighting in Donbas. ] — ] 13:37, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
* Isn't "Southeastern Ukraine" just Donbas? The infobox of this article seems to indicate precisely that. '''Support''' move to "Donbas offensive". ] ] ] 14:45, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
*: ] includes the two ] oblasts, plus one to five others. ] does not. ] isn’t really defined, unless one takes it to mean all of southern and eastern Ukraine.&nbsp;—'']&nbsp;].'' 20:37, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
* I don't have strong opinions regarding this RM. But I felt the need to point out that ] is an inappropriate title per ] which says that title be of the pattern "when, where, what", which in this case would be ] or just ] (currently a redirect to here). Though a redirect can and should exist at the bracketed title. <span class="nowrap">---''']'''(<sup>he</sup>/<sub>him</sub>)</span> <span class="nowrap">(<sup>]</sup>&#124;<sub>]</sub>)</span> 11:43, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' ], '''Support''' ]. ] (]) 20:13, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The theatre is neither restricted to the Donbas oblasts, making ''Donbas offensive'' unsuitable, nor restricted to the southeast of Ukraine, which unlike ] has no recognised definition. In lieu of a common use name for the offensive, ''Eastern Ukraine offensive'' is the most accurate descriptor. ''(Edited to remove erroneous double-post)'' ] (]) 12:16, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


:That's an exaggeration. "Breakthrough" is descriptive language and very logical in that context. Why do you think the Ukrainians had to retreat in a hurry from Avdiivka, leaving wounded behind? Because the "push"/"confrontation" you're advocating for was fast, hence the chaos. A fast push is a breakthrough. This isn't stretching the imagination nor synthesis gymnastics. It isn't hard to find sources using "breakthrough": . One could constrain the breakthrough though to be localized to Avdiivka and not necessarily to other settlements (a major frontline breakthrough). ] (]) 15:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
* '''Support''' ] ] (]) 16:03, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
::Hold up. I think you are referring to using "breakthroughs" outside Avdiivka? If so, then I would agree. There were pushes/advances on other parts of the front, only Avdiivka was fast and relatively chaotic. ] (]) 15:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
* '''Support''' ] --] (]) 13:19, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
: What happened in Avdiivka was by all intents and purposes a Russian breakthrough, anyone that monitors the war daily and understands what the term means militarily, should comprehend that. No "puffery" and no synth necessary. As for non-Avdiivka advances, I used the term for consistency purpose because of the ] also used the term "breakthroughs" and no one had an issue with that one a year ago. I am now convinced by Alexis that using "breakthroughs" this early may be jumping the gun, so I'll neutralize the text with their point in mind. ] (]) 16:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] -->
::Let me also add that the Avdiivka breakthrough seems to not be only limited to the city, i.e. it still continues. This is because Russia appears to be in a "recapture spree" there as evidenced in ]. ] (]) 15:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
</div><div style="clear:both;"></div>


== Add point ==
== Crimean Tatars are also in this war, someone please add them ==


Russia launches a new ] in the Kharkiv Oblast ] (]) 11:08, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Crimean Tatars are also in this war, someone please add them ] (]) 08:01, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
:{{u|Nizamcı}}, please provide a ]. ] (]) 09:12, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


== Needs reformatting ==
== Merger Kharkiv with Eastern Ukraine Offensive? ==


This article is to biased, shares only the Ukrainian point of view, citing Ukraine's fake news media outlets and the Institute for the Study of War crap (which has no any credibility at all) picked up by the US propaganda machine. The English Wiki yet again shows how politicized it is become and does not bother to have this crap on its site. ] (]) 16:56, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Looking at the Ukraine war map (areas of focus), it makes more sense to connect Kharkiv (currently part of the ] article) to the ]. Also some units, for example the 20th Guards Combined Arms Army, are active in both Kharkiv and the Donbass. As of now, nothing with the Kharkiv battles has anything to do with main focus areas in Northeastern Ukraine (Sumy and Chernihiv). Thoughts? ] (]) 21:25, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


:Okay, well if you think it's so biased, do you have any clear suggestions on what should be actually changed? Can you provide ] that you think do not "share only the Ukrainian point of view" that we should use? ] (]) 17:00, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
:Yes, true, they should merge the battles in the Kharkiv oblast with the ]. ] (]) 18:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
::For the time being this is an ongoing conflict and it's best that this remains very limited to include only an explanation of when it started and how it started. By reading the first two paragraphs you can clearly notice the biases and in whose interests are covered especially with the casualties when both parties refrain from announcing any information but the IWS already knows the exact numbers like it's counting sheep's. The problem remains that you guys take time to write articles on ongoing matters citing think thanks and fake news media outlets with no credibility and it really bothers me that the admins don't do anything about it. I'm glad I'm not using Misplaced Pages at all for any kind of research or whatever. ] (]) 17:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
::@], as an intelligent editor in the topic area I am interested in your opinion on another matter regarding this page, which is the legitimacy of lumping together into one article what seem to be two separate military campaigns in the Donbass and near Kharkiv. The combination of these two fronts into a single "eastern Ukraine campaign", a term that really doesn't exist anywhere else, might be considered undue or original research. In my recollection, media have always considered the fighting in the Donbass and Kharkiv separately. There is no problem in my mind keeping the Donetsk and Luhansk combat together since they have frequently been referred to collectively as the Donbass, but dragging Kharkiv in seems like a stretch - especially including the events post-May 2024.
::Worth noting: I am referring specifically to the events nearest to Kharkiv city, like those that are covered in ]; I have no issues with including Izium-area combat here since it was frequently contextualized, correctly or incorrectly, by media as part of a Russian operation on Sloviansk and a northern bridgehead from which to advance into the Donbass. ] (]) 08:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)


== Important! ==
== Merge parts of Northeastern offensive into this? ==


"Russia captures cities of Soledar, Bakhmut, Mariupol, Volnovakha, Svitlodarsk, Novohrodivka, Marinka and Avdiivka in Donetsk Oblast"
I raised on Northeastern offensive talk page a question whether parts of it should be merged with this article: ].--] (]) 08:53, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Delete Mariupol, Volnovakha and Svitlodarsk. It is unactual. It was in 2022. ] (]) 10:44, 31 August 2024 (UTC)


:It was in 2022, yes, but this article covers operations in 2022, no? ] (]) 16:39, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
::It third point there are citites captured before Ukrainian counteroffensive which isn't correct. ] (]) 10:59, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
:::Done. ] (]) 19:22, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2022-04-13T06:21:54.319577 | Mariupol Drama Theatre Destroyed 2 (3to4).jpg -->
::::Please add to cities captured by Russia Zalizhne and Krasnohorivka. ] (]) 10:29, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 06:22, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


== Update ==
== Requested move 22 April 2022 ==


The infobox is missing information about Russia's capture of the cities of Zalizne and Krasnohorivka. ] (]) 14:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
{{requested move/dated|Donbas offensive (2022)}}


== Further update again ==
] → {{no redirect|Donbas offensive (2022)}} – The offensive occured in Donbas only so it is more precise. ] (]) 11:15, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. This offensive includes fighting in Kharkiv which is not part of the Donbas. ] (]) 12:09, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
'''Question/oppose''' Apart from the comment that there may be some overflow (per {{U|Applodion}}), what evidence is there as to ] for either proposition? We are only free to make up a name if no common name exists. ] (]) 12:17, 22 April 2022 (UTC)


The infobox is missing information about Russia's capture of the cities of Zalizne, Krasnohorivka, Hirnyk and Selydove. ] (]) 18:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Cinderella157|Applodion}} we should update the infobox because it covers only Luhansk and Donetsk. ] (]) 13:04, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
*<s>'''Support'''</s> to ]. There is no common name for this offensive yet, although reliable sources do prefer over , but the offensive is generally referred to as being in the Donbas, rather than Eastern Ukraine generally - see , , and . ] (]) 13:39, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
::{{re|BilledMammal}} The articles you cited are talking about the ] which is a sub-operation of this larger campaign. Thus, "Battle of Donbas (2022)" should be renamed, not this article. ] (]) 13:55, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
:::Good point; switch to '''Oppose'''. ] (]) 13:58, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
::::{{ping|BilledMammal|Applodion}} in that case we must add Kharkiv oblast to the location. ] (]) 15:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Panam2014}} Thanks for pointing this out; I had not even noticed that only two oblasts were mentioned in the infobox. Admittedly, there is some overlap with the ], but - one of the most important academic sources on the war - categorize Kharkiv as part of the eastern campaign. ] (]) 16:29, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
:::::I have adjusted the ] article as well; the latter now says that it was part of both the northeastern and eastern offensive. IMO, that is probably the best we can do until experts actually publish other views or we learn more details about the Russian planning. ] (]) 16:34, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' although I supported this before, it is true that the offensive also extends into the Kharkiv Oblast, which is not in Donbas. It is, however, included in the geographical region of ], see the article for a map. ] ] ] 17:39, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
*'''Merge ] into here''' and then we can discuss what the name should be. ] (]) 17:43, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
::'''Support'''. ] ] ] 17:55, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
::I also '''Support''' a merger of the two articles, as the April 2022 Donbas offensive is merely a continuation of this offensive. Also, neither article is anywhere near the readable prose size limit, and even if merged, a combined article still wouldn't get there, so there's no need for a ] here. If, however, the two articles remain separate, then I think that the new article should continue using the title ], as that is a name that is actually used by media outlets, and since we have used "battle" to name articles on large military offensives, such as ], ], ], and ]. ''''']''''' 🌀 (]) 07:12, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
* '''Strongly Support''' – Unless we merge the ] and ] operations into this article, this article focuses exclusively on the military operations in the two Donbas Oblasts. It makes absolutely no sense to call this the "Eastern Ukraine offensive" when the article covers only two oblasts in southeastern Ukraine. Per ], we should use the most accurate, concise title as possible. "Eastern Ukraine offensive" gives users the impression that this article covers offensive operations around the Kharkiv and Chernihiv regions when that's simply not true, which can be confusing. ''''']''''' 🌀 (]) 07:12, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
:* {{Ping|Laurel Lodged|Fijipedia|Wikisaurus|Laurel Lodged|Activist|Olchug|RGloucester|CX Zoom|Benjitheijneb|EkoGraf}} Pinging the participants from the previous discussion, as they'll probably have an interest in this one as well. ''''']''''' 🌀 (]) 07:12, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:56, 26 November 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 12 months 
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, along with other pages relating to the Russo-Ukrainian War, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

  • Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area, though editors who are not extended-confirmed may post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area on article talk pages. Should disruption occur on article talk pages, administrators may take enforcement actions against disruptive editors and/or apply page protection on article talk pages. However, non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area, even on article talk pages. Internal project discussions include, but are not limited to, Articles for deletion nominations, WikiProjects, requests for comment, requested moves, and noticeboard discussions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions

Enforcement procedures:

  • Violations of any restrictions and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard.
  • Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
  • An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.
This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Horlivka offensive was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 4 April 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
Battle of Orlivka was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 9 April 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconInternational relations Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconMilitary history: European / Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
B checklist
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
  1. Referencing and citation: criterion not met
  2. Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
  3. Structure: criterion met
  4. Grammar and style: criterion met
  5. Supporting materials: criterion met
Associated task forces:
/ 
Taskforce icon
European military history task force
Taskforce icon
Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
Taskforce icon
Post-Cold War task force
WikiProject iconRussia: Military / Politics and law Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Misplaced Pages.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and law of Russia task force.
WikiProject iconUkraine High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Marinka city?

In the status part of the infobox, it lists that Russia captured the cities of Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Marinka. I understand the first two, but Marinka? Marinka is not a city but a suburb of Donetsk City. I propose removing Marinka from the list of cities taken by Russia in Eastern Ukraine. 2601:85:C100:46C0:C198:5F25:73F0:DB5D (talk) 02:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

It is officially a city, see list of cities in Ukraine. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 22:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Referring to russian push as a "breakthrough"

None of the sources in the "Russian breakthroughs and capture of Avdiivka (January 2024–present)" section actually refer to the Russian actions as a "breakthrough". IMHO using "breakthrough" here constitutes WP:SYNTH at the very least, if not full on WP:PUFFERY and should be replaced with more neutral language such as "push" or "confrontation". pinging @RopeTricks Tdmurlock (talk) 01:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

That's an exaggeration. "Breakthrough" is descriptive language and very logical in that context. Why do you think the Ukrainians had to retreat in a hurry from Avdiivka, leaving wounded behind? Because the "push"/"confrontation" you're advocating for was fast, hence the chaos. A fast push is a breakthrough. This isn't stretching the imagination nor synthesis gymnastics. It isn't hard to find sources using "breakthrough": . One could constrain the breakthrough though to be localized to Avdiivka and not necessarily to other settlements (a major frontline breakthrough). Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Hold up. I think you are referring to using "breakthroughs" outside Avdiivka? If so, then I would agree. There were pushes/advances on other parts of the front, only Avdiivka was fast and relatively chaotic. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
What happened in Avdiivka was by all intents and purposes a Russian breakthrough, anyone that monitors the war daily and understands what the term means militarily, should comprehend that. No "puffery" and no synth necessary. As for non-Avdiivka advances, I used the term for consistency purpose because of the Eastern Ukraine campaign#Russian breakthroughs (December 2022–March 2023) also used the term "breakthroughs" and no one had an issue with that one a year ago. I am now convinced by Alexis that using "breakthroughs" this early may be jumping the gun, so I'll neutralize the text with their point in mind. RopeTricks (talk) 16:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Let me also add that the Avdiivka breakthrough seems to not be only limited to the city, i.e. it still continues. This is because Russia appears to be in a "recapture spree" there as evidenced in Territorial control during the Russo-Ukrainian War#2024. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 15:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Add point

Russia launches a new offensive in the Kharkiv Oblast 2409:4063:4212:31A6:0:0:C7A:A8AD (talk) 11:08, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Needs reformatting

This article is to biased, shares only the Ukrainian point of view, citing Ukraine's fake news media outlets and the Institute for the Study of War crap (which has no any credibility at all) picked up by the US propaganda machine. The English Wiki yet again shows how politicized it is become and does not bother to have this crap on its site. 78.90.149.126 (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay, well if you think it's so biased, do you have any clear suggestions on what should be actually changed? Can you provide reliable sources that you think do not "share only the Ukrainian point of view" that we should use? Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 17:00, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
For the time being this is an ongoing conflict and it's best that this remains very limited to include only an explanation of when it started and how it started. By reading the first two paragraphs you can clearly notice the biases and in whose interests are covered especially with the casualties when both parties refrain from announcing any information but the IWS already knows the exact numbers like it's counting sheep's. The problem remains that you guys take time to write articles on ongoing matters citing think thanks and fake news media outlets with no credibility and it really bothers me that the admins don't do anything about it. I'm glad I'm not using Misplaced Pages at all for any kind of research or whatever. 78.90.149.126 (talk) 17:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
@Flemmish Nietzsche, as an intelligent editor in the topic area I am interested in your opinion on another matter regarding this page, which is the legitimacy of lumping together into one article what seem to be two separate military campaigns in the Donbass and near Kharkiv. The combination of these two fronts into a single "eastern Ukraine campaign", a term that really doesn't exist anywhere else, might be considered undue or original research. In my recollection, media have always considered the fighting in the Donbass and Kharkiv separately. There is no problem in my mind keeping the Donetsk and Luhansk combat together since they have frequently been referred to collectively as the Donbass, but dragging Kharkiv in seems like a stretch - especially including the events post-May 2024.
Worth noting: I am referring specifically to the events nearest to Kharkiv city, like those that are covered in Battle of Kharkiv (2022); I have no issues with including Izium-area combat here since it was frequently contextualized, correctly or incorrectly, by media as part of a Russian operation on Sloviansk and a northern bridgehead from which to advance into the Donbass. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 08:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Important!

"Russia captures cities of Soledar, Bakhmut, Mariupol, Volnovakha, Svitlodarsk, Novohrodivka, Marinka and Avdiivka in Donetsk Oblast" Delete Mariupol, Volnovakha and Svitlodarsk. It is unactual. It was in 2022. 83.23.165.237 (talk) 10:44, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

It was in 2022, yes, but this article covers operations in 2022, no? Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 16:39, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
It third point there are citites captured before Ukrainian counteroffensive which isn't correct. 83.23.165.218 (talk) 10:59, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Done. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 19:22, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
Please add to cities captured by Russia Zalizhne and Krasnohorivka. 46.187.174.16 (talk) 10:29, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Update

The infobox is missing information about Russia's capture of the cities of Zalizne and Krasnohorivka. 46.187.174.16 (talk) 14:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Further update again

The infobox is missing information about Russia's capture of the cities of Zalizne, Krasnohorivka, Hirnyk and Selydove. 2A01:113F:203:3D00:BD63:9301:726B:7CAE (talk) 18:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Categories: