Misplaced Pages

Talk:Baháʼí Faith: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 07:27, 6 July 2022 editJBW (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators195,753 editsm Protected "Talk:Baháʼí Faith": Long-term vandalism, trolling, and addition of offensive material. No good IP edits for a long time. ( (expires 07:27, 6 July 2024 (UTC)) (expires 07:27, 6 July 2024 (UTC)))← Previous edit Latest revision as of 12:06, 11 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,296,169 editsm Archiving 3 discussion(s) to Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Archive 21, Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Archive 22) (bot 
(141 intermediate revisions by 37 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header}}
{{talk header|archive_age=3|archive_units=months|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}}
{{Article history {{Article history
|action1=FAC |action1=FAC
Line 13: Line 13:
|action2oldid=135023246 |action2oldid=135023246


|action3 = FAR
|currentstatus=FA
|action3date = 2022-10-15
|action3link = Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Baháʼí Faith/archive1
|action3result = demoted
|action3oldid = 1115205887

|currentstatus=FFA
|maindate=January 22,2005 |maindate=January 22,2005
}} }}
{{WikiProject banner shell |collapsed=yes|1= {{WikiProject banner shell |collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|1=
{{WikiProject Bahá'í Faith|class=FA|importance=Top}} {{WikiProject Bahá'í Faith|importance=Top}}
{{WikiProject Iran|class=FA|importance=Top}} {{WikiProject Iran|importance=Top}}
{{WikiProject Religion|class=FA|importance=Top|NRM=yes|NRMImp=Top}} {{WikiProject Religion|importance=Top|NRM=yes|NRMImp=Top}}
{{WikiProject Islam|class=FA|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject Islam|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject History|class=FA|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject History|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Theology|class=FA|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject Theology|importance=Low}}
{{WP1.0|class=FA|importance=Low|v0.5=pass|category=Philrelig|VA=yes}}
{{Vital article|level=4|topic=Philosophy|class=FA}}
}} }}
{{ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement|relatedcontent=yes}} {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement|relatedcontent=yes}}
Line 30: Line 34:
|archiveheader = {{aan}} |archiveheader = {{aan}}
|maxarchivesize = 100K |maxarchivesize = 100K
|counter = 21 |counter = 22
|minthreadsleft = 5 |minthreadsleft = 5
|algo = old(90d) |algo = old(90d)
Line 36: Line 40:
}} }}
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn |target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes }} {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn |target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes }}
{{archives
{| class="infobox" width="290px"
|index=Archive index
|-
|auto=long
!align="center" colspan="2"|]<br/>] (])
|1=
----
* ] for discussion of material relating to the history of Baha'i figures
|-
* ] discussion of the display of Baha'u'llah's photograph
|] <small>02/03 – 08/04</small>
* ] discussion generated by a RfC of Feb 2005
|] <small>08/04 – 01/05</small>
* ] removed per wikipedia policy (Misplaced Pages is not a discussion board)
|-
}}
|] <small>01/05 – 02/05</small>
|] <small>02/05 – 06/05</small>
|-
|] <small>03/05 – 07/05</small>
|] <small>07/05 – 10/05</small>
|-
|] <small>10/05 – 11/05</small>
|] <small>11/05 – 12/05</small>
|-
|] <small>12/05 – 04/06</small>
|] <small>04/06 – 07/06</small>
|-
|] <small>08/06 – 09/06</small>
|] <small>07/06 – 12/06</small>
|-
|] <small>12/06 – 02/07</small>
|] <small>02/07 – 03/07</small>
|-
|] <small>03/07 – 12/08</small>
|] <small>03/08 – 12/10</small>
|-
|] <small>05/08 – 08/14</small>
|] <small> 06/14 – 04/17</small>
|-
|] <small>04/17 – </small>
|colspan="2"|
----
|-
|align="center" colspan="2"|] for discussion of material relating to the history of Baha'i figures
----
|-
|align="center" colspan="2"|] discussion of the display of Baha'u'llah's photograph
----
|-
|align="center" colspan="2"|] discussion generated by a RfC of Feb 2005
----
|-
|align="center" colspan="2"|] removed per wikipedia policy (Misplaced Pages is not a discussion board)
|}<!--Template:Archivebox-->

== FAR needed ==

I fear that the copy at hand might need some sprucing up. It hasn't been reviewed formally in almost 15 years, and I'm not sure it complies with MOS rules at present. There are for instance incomplete citations ({{xt|<sup>From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer dated 9 June 1932</sup>}}), {{cn}}-tags, short stubby paragraphs, lists, see also-section, image tagging problems, as well as ]. ] (]) 16:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

:Yes it's a bit of a mess. I find it much easier to work on simple articles with fewer sources. In the last few years I've acquired many books from independent sources covering the Baha'i Faith, so I can help clean it up, but we're talking about a significant amount of time involved. ] ☼ - ] 19:01, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

:: I edit articles on Baha'i topics a lot and would be happy to help with gradually cleaning this up. In the meantime, I'll put a few thoughts here. I think another major shortcoming (as {{u|Cuñado}} was alluding to) is the large number of non-independent, non-mainstream sources used for much of the information. There are quite a few high-quality sources that can be added instead. The persecution section quite reasonably focuses on Iran, but after that a broader selection of countries could be used rather than focusing so much on Egypt. I think a (brief) criticism section is also appropriate as per ]. The basis for that already exists at ]. One last note is that while Peter Smith's books of 2000 and 2008 are good sources, we don't want to rely on them excessively for the article. ] (]) 01:01, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


== Follow-up on reorganization discussion ==
: This is a GREAT idea. I don't know that I'll be able to spend a lot of time editing the article myself, but I'd be happy to contribute my thoughts on talk pages/votes/whatever depending on the need. ''']'''_<span style="font-size:70%">]</span><span style="font-size:70%;vertical-align:top">]</span> 10:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


{{u|Smkolins}} and {{u|Cuñado}}, I wanted to briefly follow up on a talk page discussion here last year (]). Both of you had put forward some tentative proposals for reorganizing the page, and I raised some objections at the time and said I'd follow up but never did. At this point I don't have a clear idea of the exact way the page should be organized and I would probably support whatever someone else implements as long as it's clear and neutral. I don't plan on doing any major rework of the page. I could help out here and there if someone else was reorganizing - though I don't know if either of you plans on this now that the FAR is over. ]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 02:23, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:: By the way, for anybody working on cleaning up this article, may be the best resource available yet. It doesn't seem to include non-Baha'i contributors such as Warburg, Amanat, and MacEoin, but overall it is up-to-date, comprehensive, and features a broad range of contributors. I haven't found a way to get access yet but other contributors might have options. ] (]) 19:35, 13 January 2022 (UTC)


: Some miscellaneous thoughts on the previous discussion while it's fresh in my mind – in case an editor decides to rework the page at some point. A few books were suggested there that could be used as models for the organization. I think the source by Warburg (2001) looks the most promising since it's about the right length and generally uses simple headings that could be understood by someone with no background on the Baha'i Faith. However, I don't think the current headings are terrible and it might make more sense to make incremental improvements to the organization rather than redoing the whole page in a sandbox. I do like how she has sections for prayer and the nineteen-day fast rather than folding them inconspicuously into "Exhortations". I don't really like "Fundamental beliefs" as a heading (why not just "Beliefs"?) and "Baha'is in the world" strikes me as too vague to be helpful to readers. During the FAR someone commented about how some parts before the "History" section were hard to understand because they referred to various Baha'i leaders who hadn't been introduced yet, so perhaps the history should appear earlier or else some of the descriptions above it should be clarified. I think sections for "Administration" and "Criticism" would also be valuable additions. ]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 02:32, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:::I got that in the mail two weeks ago but haven't had much time yet. ] ☼ - ] 22:28, 13 January 2022 (UTC)


::Thanks for the note Gazelle55. I also saw the archiving of that discussion and lamented the lack of action. I have a great interest in doing the re-org on this page and Baha'u'llah but it would take a long time, maybe 20+ hours per page. It's definitely on my radar and when I get around to it I'll be requesting comment. ] ☼ - ] 19:26, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
== Why I removed the India number ==
:: While I have been somewhat active in some research and publishing, I too have interest. Just now - last couple weeks - I've been dealing with a fairly severe case of covid. But thanks for reaching out. So many things to be done! :-) ] (]) 10:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


==Using Wikidata items to facilitate generation of references==
Hi, {{u|Smkolins}}, I wanted to touch base about including that India number. I see I made a typo in my edit summary which probably made it unclear... what I meant to write is we don't need *two* estimates for one country. My point was that the paragraph right above (citing The World Almanac and Book of Facts 2004) already gave a list of the largest national populations (including India's, which it estimates at 2.2 million). I apologize since with that typo it looked like I was saying we shouldn't have individual country estimates at all. With that in mind, is it okay if I remove the point again since the same info is already covered? Thanks, ] (]) 14:46, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
I have begun to experiment with Wikidata items as an efficient way to include reliable sources in articles I am editing. I am sharing these items as a resource in my user page space .


One advantage of the use of the Cite Q template is that the same Qnumber can be cited in any language in Misplaced Pages.
: {{u|Gazelle55}} I can see what you mean and my edit didn't fix it. But it's a broader problem actually. Most of the information is repetitious but the later data seems more relevant and slightly echoing the problem of other pages where there is a pseudo-continental breakdown blending into countries and the later data is mostly countries. I'd favor some kind of merger while keeping the best of both. Perhaps something like:


One disadvantage is that you need to add the <nowiki>{{rp|page=17}}</nowiki}}
: <blockquote>The world's largest Baháʼí population according to the Association of Religion Data Archives lives in India, which in 2010 was home to an estimated 1,897,651 Baháʼís, and its religionists are the largest numerical religious minority in Iran. This was out of a generality in Asia of about 3.6 million from a nearly contemporaneous analysis by ''The World Almanac and Book of Facts 2004''. The religion is also the largest numerical religious minority in Panama and Belize, and the second largest international religion in Bolivia, out of a generality of Latin America of some 900,000. The Bahá'ís were the second largest international religion in Zambia, and was the third largest international religion in Chad and Kenya, out of generality of Africa of 1.8 million. Aside from these countries, numbers vary greatly and no country has a Baháʼí majority.</blockquote>


Once a Wikidata bibliographic item has been created and all the properties have been added: author, date, title, DOI, ISBN, etc have been entered, it will generate the complete reference.
:This is just a rough draft. Make sense? Or are the 2020 numbers out yet? If so maybe re-write the whole section and mind that the 2004 World Book probably isn't a good overlap. I'd welcome suggestions.] (]) 04:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


For example:
:: {{u|Smkolins}}, sure I like the idea of integrating the continents and countries. What you wrote looks good in general to me (though I find "religionists" a bit awkward compared to "adherents").
* You can use the cite Q template with the <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki><ref name="Abdolmohammadi_20240202">{{cite Q|Q124691289}}</ref> <nowiki><ref name="Abdolmohammadi_20240202">{{cite Q|Q124691289}}</ref></nowiki> You can see the result in the reference section below.
* Or you can use the {{sfn|Abdolmohammadi|2024}}<nowiki>{{sfn|Abdolmohammadi|2024}}</ref> by manually adding <nowiki>{{cite Q|Q124473137}}</nowiki> to the References. The example will not work in the talk page, only in the main article. The Abdolmohammadi article is newly published.{{sfn|Abdolmohammadi|2024}}


Anyone can edit and/or create Wikidata items.
:: As far as sources, I agree that more recent would be better. The World Religion Database released 2020 numbers by country behind a paywall. I looked into this before and it looks like Misplaced Pages wouldn't allow us to include the whole list for copyright reasons, but I have access and could add the top few largest numbers. I'll have to check if they list percentages this time. For continents, there is also based on the World Religion Database. And probably there are other sources I'm not aware of too. ] (]) 15:10, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
::: I've asked my library for a copy and they've agreed to get one. I'm to be notified when it comes in. Though with covid mucking things up I don't know when that will happen. ] (]) 19:53, 13 January 2022 (UTC)


===Related to the Baha'i Faith===
== Queen Marie ==
* {{cite Q|Q124473137}} <nowiki>{{cite Q|Q124473137}}</nowiki>
* {{cite Q|Q115796499}}
* {{cite Q|Q124473862}}
* {{cite Q|Q124474264}}
* {{cite Q|Q124473374}}
* {{cite Q|Q124464995}}
* {{cite Q|Q22679}}


===Related to the Báb===
Pardon, {{u|Gazelle55}}, about , but how does a Master of Arts thesis from the University of Arkansas count as "do not meet Misplaced Pages's guidelines for reliable sources" as you put it? ] (]) 20:33, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
* '''A'''
* {{cite Q|Q124691289}}
* {{cite Q|Q124658583}}
* {{cite Q|Q124680903}}
* {{cite Q|Q124659024}} See also
'''B'''
* {{cite Q|Q124618091}}
'''H'''
* {{cite Q|Q115796499}}
'''L'''
* {{cite Q|Q124617904}}
'''M'''
* {{cite Q|Q124686189}}
* {{cite Q|Q124568789}}
* {{cite Q|Q124680832}}
'''N'''
* {{cite Q|Q2966758}}
'''S'''
* {{cite Q|Q124473374}}
* {{cite Q|Q124610666}}


I hope this is helpful. I would like to share this with other Baha'i-related articles and with Baha'i project, Baha'i Faith. ] (]) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
: Hi, {{u|Smkolins}}, in ] (which is a part of ]), it says "Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence." I am sure there is a good source that talks about Queen Marie's conversion out there, but I think for this page in particular we want the source quality to be going up, not down. ] (]) 21:04, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
:: {{u|Gazelle55}}, would you care to review for more satisfactory sources and instead of just subtracting actually make the article better? ] (]) 00:52, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
::: Hi, {{u|Smkolins}}, I appreciate your concern for improving this and other articles and the hard work you have put into improving Misplaced Pages. That said, I think we have some major differences as far as what "makes the article better". If you copy the article into your word processor you will see that the article is already long enough as per ], so expansion of content on Baha'i topics should be on the more specific pages, not necessarily a lot on this one. More to the point, I strongly believe that insisting on source quality improves the pages. Even still, I haven't gone on a blitz and removed all the unsourced or poorly sourced material from this page, because like you I would rather wait for better sources. I removed this material because it was new and it's already been noted on the talk page that this page needs cleanup to maintain its Feature Article rating.
::: To be clear, what I do on Baha'i pages is the same as what I do on other pages. I am interested in the topic of ]s/]s, and yet I make a point of removing sub-par sources from those pages and try to reflect the full range of scholarly opinion on the topic. If you go to ], the page is still not perfect, but it is a lot closer to encyclopedic than when I started—and reflects my own view less! Conversely, I have been slowly but steadily ''adding'' a lot of sources and content to ]. I was even thinking I'd like to get it to Feature Article status.
::: Anyway, I'll stop there. Yes, hopefully I will get to adding that in due time. As you say, there are good sources on Queen Marie's own page. Feel free to incorporate them yourself if you want them included sooner. I'm happy to switch them over to sfn after, which is a bit more mindless than doing content. Again, despite our differences of opinion, I appreciate your hard work and your desire to inform our readers as well as possible. ] (]) 01:20, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
:::: Sorry, was probably overreacting there. I'll see where that can fit into the article and add some material from the other page soon. ] (]) 19:22, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
::::: Just to close the loop on this, I couldn't find a way to fit it naturally on this page but if someone else sees a way go ahead. The problem is that since it's not totally clear whether she converted, it will take more than a quick note to talk about her neutrally, and having a longer explanation on this page is probably WP:UNDUE. So instead, I added it to ]. I also copied the sentence about the Samoan king there. ] (]) 19:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)


{{reflist-talk}}
== Symbol of Baha’i Faith ==


== 5-8 million or 8 million? ==
The symbol of the Baha’i Faith is the nine-pointed star, not the five-pointed star stated in the article. ] (]) 02:28, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
:please check the citations. The five pointed star is more officially 'the' symbol. The nine pointed star is used more casually but it is mentioned on the symbols page. ] (]) 02:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)


{{u|Completely Random Guy}}, thanks for . I disagree with the change in numbers in the lead. I built most of the page ] and I've been through all the sources. There is a lot of nuance to the numbers, and the 8 million number came from the Baha'i World Centre, based on "information received from Baháʼí communities across the world, and on reputable external sources". As with any religious movement, there is a wide variation in levels of adherence. If you count those that are actively participating in community life, it's probably 3 million (my guess, based off Warburg's 2001 estimate), if you count those that are self-professing Baha'is, it's probably 5 million, and by the loosest standard (used by World Christian Encyclopedia and others), it's probably 8 million.
== “controlled-infiltrated Sect” ==


The lead has to be very concise, so "5-8 million" seems to capture the spirit of it without having to use qualifiers like "active". ] ☼ - ] 19:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
I removed the term “controlled-infiltrated Sect” (sic) and replaced it with “sect” and hyperlinked “relatively new religion” to New Religious Movement. I understand there is something contention around the NRM thing but that’s not really what I’m commenting on. Feel free to remove the word “sect”. I considered removing it entirely and still am. What exactly could that mean other than conspiratorial accusations of heresy? How is “controlled-inflated sect” anything other than subjective/vandalism? I very well might be missing something, so let me know or reword at will. I’m watching the page. ] (]) 00:46, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
:I agree. ] not ]. If there is a discrepancy in the sources, it can be fleshed out in the main body of the article. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">] (])</span> 09:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
: It's well documented in the note and makes it much more convoluted to read with such inclusions, aside from very pov content being mingled with sources. Also there was a fair bit of discussion bring this to a concensus how this is described. ] (]) 00:50, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
::Hey there! So I changed the numbers due to the ] Wikipage, where it states that in 1965 there were over a million practicers, in 1991 5 million, and in 2020 8 million. I understand this to be a solid increase over time of practicers of the faith. I thought we were combining 1991 numbers and 2020 numbers to give a rough estimate. I would be okay with putting 5-8 million, not a problem, I just thought the more specific the better.
:] (]) 02:35, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
== "]" listed at ] ==
]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 10#Haifan Baháʼís}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 21:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
== "]" listed at ] ==
]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 10#Haifan Baháʼí Faith}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 21:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:06, 11 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Baháʼí Faith article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22Auto-archiving period: 3 months 
Former featured articleBaháʼí Faith is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 22, 2005.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 30, 2004Featured article candidatePromoted
June 1, 2007Featured article reviewKept
October 15, 2022Featured article reviewDemoted
Current status: Former featured article
This  level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
WikiProject iconBahá'í Faith Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Bahá'í Faith, a coordinated attempt to increase the quality and quantity of information about the Baháʼí Faith on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.Bahá'í FaithWikipedia:WikiProject Bahá'í FaithTemplate:WikiProject Bahá'í FaithBahá'í Faith
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconIran Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconReligion: New religious movements Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by New religious movements work group (assessed as Top-importance).
WikiProject iconIslam Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconHistory Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconTheology Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Theology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Theology on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TheologyWikipedia:WikiProject TheologyTemplate:WikiProject TheologyTheology
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:

  • You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
  • You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered.

Further information
The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:
  1. Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
  2. Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

  • Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
  • Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Archiving icon
Archives
Index
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3
Archive 4Archive 5Archive 6
Archive 7Archive 8Archive 9
Archive 10Archive 11Archive 12
Archive 13Archive 14Archive 15
Archive 16Archive 17Archive 18
Archive 19Archive 20Archive 21
Archive 22
  • Biographies for discussion of material relating to the history of Baha'i figures
  • Picture discussion of the display of Baha'u'llah's photograph
  • Request for comment discussion generated by a RfC of Feb 2005
  • Off Topic discussions removed per wikipedia policy (Misplaced Pages is not a discussion board)

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.

Follow-up on reorganization discussion

Smkolins and Cuñado, I wanted to briefly follow up on a talk page discussion here last year (see here). Both of you had put forward some tentative proposals for reorganizing the page, and I raised some objections at the time and said I'd follow up but never did. At this point I don't have a clear idea of the exact way the page should be organized and I would probably support whatever someone else implements as long as it's clear and neutral. I don't plan on doing any major rework of the page. I could help out here and there if someone else was reorganizing - though I don't know if either of you plans on this now that the FAR is over. Gazelle55  02:23, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Some miscellaneous thoughts on the previous discussion while it's fresh in my mind – in case an editor decides to rework the page at some point. A few books were suggested there that could be used as models for the organization. I think the source by Warburg (2001) looks the most promising since it's about the right length and generally uses simple headings that could be understood by someone with no background on the Baha'i Faith. However, I don't think the current headings are terrible and it might make more sense to make incremental improvements to the organization rather than redoing the whole page in a sandbox. I do like how she has sections for prayer and the nineteen-day fast rather than folding them inconspicuously into "Exhortations". I don't really like "Fundamental beliefs" as a heading (why not just "Beliefs"?) and "Baha'is in the world" strikes me as too vague to be helpful to readers. During the FAR someone commented about how some parts before the "History" section were hard to understand because they referred to various Baha'i leaders who hadn't been introduced yet, so perhaps the history should appear earlier or else some of the descriptions above it should be clarified. I think sections for "Administration" and "Criticism" would also be valuable additions. Gazelle55  02:32, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the note Gazelle55. I also saw the archiving of that discussion and lamented the lack of action. I have a great interest in doing the re-org on this page and Baha'u'llah but it would take a long time, maybe 20+ hours per page. It's definitely on my radar and when I get around to it I'll be requesting comment. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 19:26, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
While I have been somewhat active in some research and publishing, I too have interest. Just now - last couple weeks - I've been dealing with a fairly severe case of covid. But thanks for reaching out. So many things to be done! :-) Smkolins (talk) 10:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Using Wikidata items to facilitate generation of references

I have begun to experiment with Wikidata items as an efficient way to include reliable sources in articles I am editing. I am sharing these items as a resource in my user page space here.

One advantage of the use of the Cite Q template is that the same Qnumber can be cited in any language in Misplaced Pages.

One disadvantage is that you need to add the {{rp|page=17}}</nowiki}} Once a Wikidata bibliographic item has been created and all the properties have been added: author, date, title, DOI, ISBN, etc have been entered, it will generate the complete reference. For example: * You can use the cite Q template with the <nowiki><ref></ref> <ref name="Abdolmohammadi_20240202">{{cite Q|Q124691289}}</ref> You can see the result in the reference section below.

  • Or you can use the {{sfn|Abdolmohammadi|2024}}</ref> by manually adding <nowiki>{{cite Q|Q124473137}} to the References. The example will not work in the talk page, only in the main article. The Abdolmohammadi article is newly published.

Anyone can edit and/or create Wikidata items.

Related to the Baha'i Faith

Related to the Báb

B

H

L

M

N

S

I hope this is helpful. I would like to share this with other Baha'i-related articles and with Baha'i project, Baha'i Faith. Oceanflynn (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. Pejman Abdolmohammadi (2 February 2024). "The Social and Political Thought of Sayyed ʿ⁠Ali Moḥammad Širāzi, the Bāb". Eurasian Studies. 27 (1): 102–126. doi:10.1163/24685623-20230144. ISSN 1722-0750. Wikidata Q124691289.
  2. ^ Abdolmohammadi 2024. sfn error: no target: CITEREFAbdolmohammadi2024 (help)

5-8 million or 8 million?

Completely Random Guy, thanks for contributing. I disagree with the change in numbers in the lead. I built most of the page Baháʼí Faith by country and I've been through all the sources. There is a lot of nuance to the numbers, and the 8 million number came from the Baha'i World Centre, based on "information received from Baháʼí communities across the world, and on reputable external sources". As with any religious movement, there is a wide variation in levels of adherence. If you count those that are actively participating in community life, it's probably 3 million (my guess, based off Warburg's 2001 estimate), if you count those that are self-professing Baha'is, it's probably 5 million, and by the loosest standard (used by World Christian Encyclopedia and others), it's probably 8 million.

The lead has to be very concise, so "5-8 million" seems to capture the spirit of it without having to use qualifiers like "active". Cuñado ☼ - Talk 19:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree. WP:Verifiability not WP:Truth. If there is a discrepancy in the sources, it can be fleshed out in the main body of the article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 09:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey there! So I changed the numbers due to the Baháʼí Faith by country Wikipage, where it states that in 1965 there were over a million practicers, in 1991 5 million, and in 2020 8 million. I understand this to be a solid increase over time of practicers of the faith. I thought we were combining 1991 numbers and 2020 numbers to give a rough estimate. I would be okay with putting 5-8 million, not a problem, I just thought the more specific the better.
Completely Random Guy (talk) 02:35, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

"Haifan Baháʼís" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Haifan Baháʼís has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 10 § Haifan Baháʼís until a consensus is reached. Smkolins (talk) 21:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"Haifan Baháʼí Faith" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Haifan Baháʼí Faith has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 10 § Haifan Baháʼí Faith until a consensus is reached. Smkolins (talk) 21:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Categories: