| Revision as of 16:12, 21 February 2007 editChaldean (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users14,990 edits →CHALDEANS ARE NOT ASSYRIANS!!!!← Previous edit |
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] (October 2006 - January 2006) |
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{{WikiProject Disambiguation}} |
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{{WikiProject Assyria}} |
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==For Chaldeans from Detroit== |
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For Chaldeans born in Detroit and are researching about their identity (like most Americans like to do), please note the importance of the following |
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The Patriach of the ], ie the number 1 man of the Chaldean Church between 1989 to 2000, up to his death stated two occasions right before his death asserts that his followers are of "Nestorian Assyrian" by ethnicity but Chaldean in faith on ] TV on April 30, 2000. |
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Here is something Chaldos from Detroit need to understand - Before the establishment of the Chaldean church in 1553, nobody called themselves Chaldean. The word ''Chaldean'' was invisable after the fall of ] in 4th century BC, up to 1553. So please, enough with this silly statements like "if where one people, why did chaldea fight with assyria". Ancient Chaldeans of Chaldea and Ur assumulated into Arab and Persians of today. ] 17:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:The Chaldean Catholic Church was established in 1553, however it did not derive from an Assyrian Church nor were the follower all assyrians. Why do assyrians love taking credit for things that have never established. If a person thinks the Nestorian Church consisted only out of Assyrians, then he shouldnt even be here typing in the first place. The Nestorian Church was first established in Persia, and strecthed from middleast all the way to China. After the fall of the Assyrian and Chaldean dynasty, they were under Persian and Mede's rule due to their lack of power, but that doesnt mean that they just assumalate into other type of people, you should know better than that. When the Nestorian Church was established the majoriy of the people who lived in the area of today's Iraq joined the Nestorian Church, and they were people who's empire/dynasty had lost their independance. So when the Nestorian Church was finally weakend, the Chaldeans were finally able to reunite with the Pope under the rule of their Chaldean Patriach Mar Soulaqa. This website proves that the Chaldean Catholic Church derived from the Nestorian Church, not the Assyrian Church cause that was yet to be established. |
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:] 15:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC) |
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What is wrong Chaldean, have you run out of refutes, or are you convinced that you were wrong, i want the article to be changed, and not rechanged, cause by the looks of it you are convinced that the ancient Chaldeans relate s to today's Chaldeans. |
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] 23:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC) |
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::1. Sign in when you want to make a comment. 2. I dont have time for child's play. Please see your talkpage. ] 00:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC) |
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Funny when you have been proven wrong, you stop refuting and called it child's play, you know what, i never knew this was a game, and i dont regard it as a game, i take this seriously, maybe you think its fun playing with the way people think, but i dont, i want the truth to be known, and not some crazy theory like the one "they just assumalated somehow", you have no idea how stupid the theory of yours sound. |
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] 10:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== For Chaldeans all over the world == |
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Once again it has been prove that Chaldeans are not ethnically Assyrians. Yes the Chaldean Catholic Church derived from the Nestorian church, however, the Nestorian Church had not yet been given the name the Assyrian Church of the East, it was later on. The nestorian Church united the Chaldean, Syrian and the Assyrians into one people, the people of mesopotamia, the different people split and got back their unique identity again, however, there is a chance that some few of today's Chaldeans and Assyrians are not from the racial group as they believe that they are from due to the Nestorian Church which had united them as one people for such a long time. |
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Anyone who states that Chaldeans are ethnically Assyrians are influenced by all the propaganda of today's world. Just because someome supplies you with an internet article suggesting that Chaldeans are ethnically Assyrians doesnt necessarily make it true, from all we know it could be written by an assyrian, if you want the truth, visit official website which cannot be edited by anyone. |
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] 05:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== ASM, please... == |
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First and formost none of the "Assyrian" or "Chaldean" Emperors referred to themselves as such. They all referred to themselves as Kings of "Sumer and Akkad." Assyrian (Babylonian as well) was coined by the Greeks centuries after (in a historical context) to refer to those whom held Ashur as the supreme diety in the land of Sumer and Akkad for example as the Jews referred to southern Mesopotamia as "Shinar" which meant "land of the moon ." "Babylonia" was also coined by the Greeks to refer to southern Mesopotamia which had its "capital" in Bab-ilu aka Kadingirra aka "Babylon." Just as people in ancient Sumer and Akkad referred to themselves by the city-state they inhabbited and religion they followed so do the modern people, they refer to their ethno-religious group by village and/or "national" origin. "Chaldean" was also coined by the Greeks to refer to the last indegenous conquerors of "Babylonia." In reality in the Syriac language we ALL refer to ourselves as Sourayeh or Souryoyeh which is simply translated as Syrian in English which itself is Greek-derived from the designation of the former colonial territories of Assyria for they referred to Sumer and Akkad as Assyria and its colonies (Aram and Canaan) as Syria. That is it in a nutshell. We are Sourayeh/Souryoyeh and ultimately we are Assyrian, Babylonian, and the "Sons and Daughters of the Fusion of Sumer and Akkad." We are Chaldean as well and we are Aramaean as well. However if you want to get into ], some hold the God ] as one with the Christian God ](weh) aka "God the Father" which himself started out as the ] storm god which was roughly equivelent to Ashur and interpreted by the "Hebrews" as the one God; the so-called "sky axle" or "Holder of Heaven" therefore we are THE true "Assyrians" in an ethno-religious sense. Also compare Yah to ] and you will see the origins of the Abrahamic religions lie in the land that is now called Iraq. ] 15:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC) |
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Chaldean is Greek-derived from the ] form of "Kaldu" which in Hebrew is "Kasdu" which may actually be in refference to the ] whom once ruled Babylon well before the "Chaldean Dynasty." It was also used interchangebly with "Astrologer" in which ] was key in the ] so even in that sense we are true "Chaldeans" as well for Judaism is a monotheistic religion that evoloved from it and gradually evolved into Christianity and even Islam.] 17:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== Finally we are getting somwhere == |
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Sorry i have not been on for a long time to my busy schedule as an educator, however, i believe we are getting somwhere, tyou stated "We are Sourayeh/Souryoyeh and ultimately we are Assyrian, Babylonian, and the "Sons and Daughters of the Fusion of Sumer and Akkad." We are Chaldean as well and we are Aramaean as well" Thank you. I believe you are right, but why does it say in the front page of the article say that chaldeans are contemporary Assyrians |
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] 00:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:''but why does it say in the front page of the article say that chaldeans are contemporary Assyrians'' - because your Patriach says so. ] 00:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC) |
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Let me tell you one thing Chaldean, just because a patriarch does mention something it doesnt mean it has to be true, several popes have made enourmos mistsakes, and Patriarchs and priests are no difference. A Patriarch is educated in religion, not in ancient or modern history. I am an Indegenous Iraqi, and just as you said, most or all races are not pure blooded, how then can you be so sure that some of those you call Assyrians are not Chaldean. Chaldeans were a part of Babylonia ever after the 7th century BC and they were known as the last indegenous conquerors of the land, and of course you with your elementary arguments are going to refute and say, why do most Chaldeans live in northern Iraq, well after the city of Babylon was in ruins, (however not totally destroyed, it still exist today) under th Selucid Empire, most Chaldeans/Babylonians, were forced to travel north to search for a new home, and since Babylon was not populated anymore, the farmers had no choice but to move north for the search for more fertilised land and also since they no longer belonged to a city/state which they could sell their surplus to. Our Patriarch teaches us about our faith, not our ancestors, get that through your head, i have never heard a Chaldean priest mention the ancient empire nor any of our kings and call us all sons of God, unlike (well i wont say most since i dont have a number) some Assyrian priest which i have been preached to included the God Ashur and many of the kings of Assyria, well Chaldean, if you get your information from some Priests, i feel sorry for you since i get my information from the Vatican which employ historians. |
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] 06:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:No offense, but who are you, a 15 year old in Austtralia, to tell the people in the homeland what is their identity? Take a look at these pictures; ]. Do you see what I see? Chaldean Catholics waving the Assyrian national flag. Who are you to tell them they are not Assyrian? Why dont you go back to the homeland and talk to these people? Let us know if you have converted them. ] 16:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== CHALDEANS ARE NOT ASSYRIANS!!!! == |
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] are not ] & don't criticize others who don't agree with you. So why do you have a screen name of ] when really you are an ] trying to be a ]. Don't push your beliefs on to others. Now I'm not trying to tell you I'm against ] or I hate them or something, I do have close relatives that are ] that are family but nonetheless we are different. First & foremost is the ]....] are ] & ] are ]. Second ] speak a different ] but similar to ] or vice-versa. Third of all, ] in whole come from a unity of multiple ] that include ], ], ], ], ], etc. but ] come from ], ], ], & parts of ]. Even though we share the same culture, have similar ] yet still obviously different, & have a history that is closely tied....it does not mean we are the same. For example, all the ] countries have the same basics of ] & ], speak the ] language of ]...HOW COME ] IS NOT CLAIMING ] AS BEING THE CONTEMPORARY ], OR ] CLAIMING ] AS BEING ] ETC. Another example if two people were born in the same ], ate the same ], & fought the same ] that doesn't make them the same or one of them being the contemporary of the other. One could be a ] & the other a ] even though CLOSLY RELATE BUT NOT THE SAME OR BEING CLAIMED AS ONE OF THE OTHER OR BEING THE COMTEMPORARY OF THE OTHER. DO NOT GENERALIZE!!! DO NOT CRITICIZE OTHERS & HAVE A MATURE DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS THATS WHY SITES LIKE THIS ARE MADE, SO YOU CAN HAVE A ]!!! -- ] 00:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:Please do not use caps. Also note to not delete sourced info. ] 15:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:You deleted my three sources that I gave you & you gave me a biased Assyrian Source. You keep on reverting back & deleting my contributions because its true & its not in your beliefs. Do not change something to what you dont know & dont delete any contributions to this page. You are not the on e& only. DO NOT DELETE ANY CONTRIBUTIONS ] becuase you have no authorization to do so. This is a collaboration not bias to your beliefs. Read my sources & DO NOT DELETE!--] 16:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC) |
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::Your edits dont make sense. Please tell me how I am giving you "baised Assyrian sources"? The sources I am giving you are; |
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::*Strickert, Fred. "Christianity in Iraq: A Small But Respected and Multi-Faceted Population", Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, March 1999, pp. 81-82. - last time I checked Fred Strickert is not an Assyrian and The Washington Report is not an Assyrian newspaper. |
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::* Jonathan Eric Lewis, "Iraqi Assyrians: Barometer of Pluralism," The Middle East Quarterly, Vol. 10 (Summer 2003). - last time I checked Jonathan Lewis is not an Assyrian and Middle East Qaurterly is not an Assyrian magazine. |
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::* Al-Machriq, “Revue Catholique Orientale Mensuelle,” 2, no. 3 (Beyrouth, 1899): 97. - Al-Machriq is not an Assyrian and the Lebanese Journal he wrote for was not an Assyrian journal. |
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::In conclusion, I advice you to leave your Sterling Heights home and explore outside of Michigan. Go back home and ask Chaldean Catholics about their identity instead of trying to paint them something else. If Chaldeans in Iraq dont consider themselves Assyrian then they would not be . Pshena. ] 16:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC) |
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