Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 18:50, 4 February 2023

ellol

ellol, as you have not been directly involved, could you please move your comment from "Response" to "Outside view"?

Besides, the main point is not about whether Vlad is right or wrong. The main point is that he does nothing but follows our edits. To my opinion, this is wikistaliking at any rate, and very disruptive, as this discourages us from editing Misplaced Pages.

I wouldn't even object if Vlad edited Misplaced Pages according to his point of view and didn't follow us, but after two months I can hardly believe that it is possible. We meet him daily, and he has done virtually no edit in the articles that we hadn't contributed to before. It is a very technical matter whether he has any other edits or he hasn't. And he hasn't. Colchicum 02:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Also please note that this issue is not bilateral. We have never stalked Vlad. I.e. there are articles that have been edited or created by us only, there are articles that have been created or edited by us and then edited by him, but so far there has been not a single article created by him or edited by him before us. Colchicum 02:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The scale of the criticism in the POVs?

I've noticed Vlad Fedorov's changes of the Yevgenia Albats page. In my opinion, Vlad has added a distinct point of view to the article. I didn't like his point of view because it belittles and slurs the living person described in the article. Not that I only welcome celebratory sentences, but the scale of the criticism should, in my opinion, withstand the "10-year test" (WP:Recentism). ilgiz 16:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I would like to notice, that I don't introduce my point of view. What I had written on the Albats article is the point of view of teo well-known journalists Oleg Kashin and Elena Kalashnikova. I have provided resoective links to the sources. If you consider my contributions to be my point of view then youa gravely wrong, since original research is forbidden in the biography of living person. Your personal dislike of another POV is disguising your real intentions to delete anothor POV from the article.

Also I would like to remind to you, Ilgiz that it was you who edited that Albats received her professorship due to fraud. Here is this edit by you (cur) (last) 07:04, 14 February 2007 Ilgiz (Talk | contribs) (→Russian scandal - Change of title. NPOV.) by which you had inserted allegations of fraud. Initially, before your edit my phrase was a citation form Oleg Kashin in which is was stated that Albats received her professorship due to the apparatchik talent of Hign School of Economics rector. That means that you have convicted Albats of committing a crime without any sources supporting your allegations. How could you be objective in judging other users, if you had made such a grave mistake? Vlad fedorov 20:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I re-phrased Kashin's accusations of Albats to underline their nature. The original summary of the Kashin article added by VF read,

Pavel Kashin wrote that professorship was earned by Albats by the apparatchik talent of its rector Jaroslav Kuzmonov, which means Albats haven't earned this title for the actual research or contributions.

I rephrased that to

Pavel Kashin claimed that Albats fraudulently obtained her Higher School of Economics professorship with the help of rector Jaroslav Kuzmonov.

The point of my comment was that the articles added by VF bring unrelated, unreliable accusations against the described person. Had these accusations concerned Albats' work and arguments, the NPOV criteria would be met. Instead of counter-arguments to Albats' work we see links and quotes from articles discussing Albats' manners or expressing suspicions in her academic honesty.

VF, I believe your other recent contribution to the Yevgenia Albats article misrepresented Albats' views by improperly attributing anti-Albats articles to the "Jewish community" and "democratic parties".

Yevgenia Albats sparked a scandal by advocating Freedom of assembly in her article about the government's reaction to the ultra-nationalist march scheduled for the new National Reconciliation Day in November 2006. This article written by Yevgenia Albats was met with fierce criticism by the Jewish community and democractic parties for the support of fascism and nationalism and was criticized by the nationalist parties - for provocative calls to disobey the police. In her earlier talk show in 2005, Yevgenia Albats had another position and was denouncing "Russian March".

As far as I know, a general way to verify authenticity of the statements is to find a directed connection between the attributed party and the referred article. I failed to find such connections with the referenced web sites:

• rusk.ru says it is an "Orthodox information agency Russian line".
• jig.ru claims to be an "International Jewish Newspaper" by Tankred G Golenpolsky.
• vz.ru is a web site maintained by the Publishing House of Konstantin Rykov (ИД Константина Рыкова) who also maintains dni.ru.
• polithexogen.ru does not show information on its partisan orientation, the web site re-publishes articles from dni.ru and other sources with the pro-Kremlin views.
• utro.ru is founded by a company "Media Mir" (ООО "Медиа Мир").
• russ.ru is published by Russian Institute directed by Gleb Pavlovsky.
• molgvardia.ru represents the Youth Guard of United Russia, the latter being the Kremlin's main party.
• russtv.ru is a web site of "Russian Orthodox TV" and "Russian Resistance".
• apn.ru is a publication of the Institute of National Strategy.

I could not find a connection _from_ the opposition parties such as Yabloko or opposition figures to the linked web sites. The referred articles contain inaccuracies and impersonations, such as these:

• The referred rusk.ru article is an editorial stating that someone by name Avrom Shmulevich (Авром Шмулевич), a "chairmain of the International Hyper-zionist Movement" "Беад Арцейну" ("За Родину!") criticized a pro-government partisan web site molgvardia.ru for anti-semitic statements. This hardly supports the statement added by VF that Jewish communities criticized Albats.
• The jig.ru and apn.ru articles do not mention Albats at all.
• russtv.ru said Albats did not invite the organizers of Russian March to her radio talk.
• The polithexogen.ru, russ.ru, utro.ru and molgvardia.ru articles said Albats supported the nationalist Russian March, but these statements were a result of misrepresenting Albats' arguments for the freedom of assembly.

VF, could you point me to the quotes of Albats supporting the nationalist Russian March? Which Jewish communities and democratic parties exactly have criticized Albats? You said the supporting sources are reliable but I could not find supporting citations or attributing.ilgiz 19:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

. ilgiz 06:08, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

. Please, see here that Ilgiz himself has introduced himself false information about fraud. Fraud and cronyism has nothing common. Ilgiz accuses me of his own wrongdoings.

. Is it pro-Kremlin?

. Is it pro-Kremlin?

. Is it pro-Kremlin?

. Biased and original research accusation. Except your words, you haven't presented evidence that it publishes pro-Kremlin views.

. Is it pro-Kremlin?

. Is it pro-Kremlin?

. Is it pro-Kremlin?

. what about this passage in which Alabats is mentioned???

"Антисемитизм" государственной власти Шмулевич узрел в том, что подконтрольные власти структуры (например, молодежный филиал "Единой России" "Молодая гвардия") опубликовали статью "Нерусский марш" "с крепким антисемитским душком, в которой подчеркивалось еврейское происхождение "главных виновников разжигания межнациональной розни в России": "Гиперсионист" Авром Шмулевич - прямой подчиненный скрывающегося в Израиле от российского правосудия Невзлина. Лидер "Движения ПНИ" Саша Поткин. Родом из Еврейского Автономного округа. Родители - правоверные иудеи. С детства мечтает об эмиграции в Израиль. Либеральная истеричка Альбац. "Другоросс" Стас Белковский. Верный служака Ходорковского."

.

Конкурс на звание «глупость года». Кто победит: власть, демократы, националисты?

ЕВГЕНИЯ АЛЬБАЦ http://ej.ru/dayTheme/entry/5138/

...

Если власти запретят «Русский марш –2006», это будет глупость года № 1.

Ибо, во-первых, легальных оснований на то у власти нет. Во-вторых, запрет на организованный протест способен обернуться погромной волной, когда вместо барабанщиц и хоругвеносцев на авансцену выйдут ребята с кастетами и бейсбольными битами. И у меня есть большие подозрения, что некоторые радикально настроенные товарищи из числа приверженцев слогана «Россия для русских» и c «Майн кампфом» в голове именно такого развития событий и добиваются .

Да, лозунги марша «Россия — русская земля!», «Русский порядок на русской земле!» и, особенно, «Кондопога — город-герой!» несут совершенно определенный подтекст и вряд ли придутся по душе гражданам нерусских национальностей. Но разве не сами люди власти и — еще более – обслуживающий ее пропагандистский персонал упорно заменяют слово «россиянин» на – «русский»? И разве демократы отказываются или должны отказаться от своих лозунгов только потому, что они вызывают зубовный скрежет у тех же охранителей или националистов? Но самое главное даже не в этом.

Самое главное, что власть – именно власть – не имеет права ТОЛКОВАТЬ слова и лозунги по своему усмотрению. Возбуждать уголовные дела против тех, кто кричит «хай Гитлер», — да, разыскивать тех, кто угрожает убийством людям, которые не приглянулись разного рода отморозкам по причине не той национальности, вероисповедания, цвета кожи или политических взглядов – да, расследовать и доказывать эти дела в судах – да. Но именно этого институты государства делать не желают или делают отвратительно плохо, как случилось только что в Санкт-Петербурге на процессе по делу об убийстве вьетнамского парня: суд присяжных обвиняемых за недостаточностью доказательств оправдал. А вот ТОЛКОВАТЬ и интерпретировать слова власть не имеет права, разрешать или не разрешать акции гражданского протеста, исходя из своих политических пристрастий или антипатий, – не должна, и позволять ей не должно. ...

Vlad fedorov 08:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Re to Vlad

First, users Biophys, Ilgiz and Colchicum never contacted me on a Talk page and tried to resolve the dispute.

The contacts are not required to happen on the user's talk page. There have been plenty of them on other talk pages, and Vlad is perfectly aware of this, as he has responded to them. With no consensus, as usual. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

In fact they just demanded me to stop the editing of the articles.

I am not aware of such demands. Could Vlad please provide a reference? Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Second, they violate 'good faith' obligatory assumption in cliaming that I stalk them.

I don't know about Biophys' position, but as to me, I don't care about Vlad's faith. What I see is that Vlad has never tried to edit an article without our edits. This would be my conclusion even if he had been a bot. If it is not wikistalking, then I don't know what it is. Besides, Vlad's contributions are based on a very limited (to my opinion) knowledge of the subject and seem to be driven mostly by his emotions that have always happened to be opposed to ours. E.g. he claimed that Vladimir Potanin was married to a daughter of Boris Yeltsin (in the Izvestia article) and that Sergei Stepashin has never worked for the FSB (in the Galina Starovoitova article), which is blatantly false. He has also never or almost never used the tag, deleting all the information he found controversial instead. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I am a newcomer to the Misplaced Pages.

Vlad has been being active in Misplaced Pages for more than two months (since December 18). But if he is still considering himself a newcomer, it would be wise for him to behave less agressively and to be more discrete and open-minded. Yet he has been engaged in edit-warring, witnessed by two blocks. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I was brought to the Misplaced Pages, because the article on Boris Stomakhin created by Biophys was completely outrageous since it turned everything uspide down. Convicted criminal Stomakhin was presented as a hero, besides his calls to exterminate all Russians, to destroy Russian with atomic explosion, to commit terrorist attacks on Russian civilians.

Yes, most probably this is how Vlad has come to this. And then Vlad started to follow Biophys. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Third, accusations presented here were already taken up at vurtually every Administrators, incident, 3RR, BLP noticeboards and administrators talk pages. So they just mainly repeat their accusations.

Wrong. This is the first time we discuss the wikistalking pattern in general formally. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have never received any warnings from administrators, because otherwise they would have gladly published these warnings already here.

Wrong, Vlad has been warned at least by admin User:Alex Bakharev of personal attacks, but later deleted this notice from his talk page: Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I was just arbitrarily blocked by non-Russian, English speaking admin William Connolley.

And when Vlad was trying to call for review of the block, he called User:Physicq210 who tried to help him insane: Very civil behavior, indeed. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Fourth, these accusations pursue the goal to harass me and to stop me from contributing another POV into the articles dedicated to Russia.

I wouldn't mind if Vlad contributed to articles dedicated to Russia or anything else without pursuing us. Unfortunately, he seems reluctant to do so. He has never tried. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Fifth, I also would like to bring all these issues to the arbitration, because the allegations of Biophys and Colchicum that I violate Misplaced Pages policy by citing reliable sources defame me and are directed not on the sources, but on my person. I would like to have finally a decision of an arbitrator/mediator/administrator that my sources are valid and reliable, the are not contradictory and do not violate anything. The problem is that Biophys claims that every my contribution violates Misplaced Pages policies. This is a strategy taken by him in order to discredit every introduced material presenting other point of view.

I have brought here the case of wikistalking rather than reliability of the sources. Don't mix up the things. I claim that Vlad violates Misplaced Pages policy WP:STALK by wikistaliking us. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The underlying problem, in my opinion, is the personal dislike of me and revenge of user Biophys against me for the following:

1)Dispute over Boris Stomakhin article.

This discussion is about all 31 articles Vlad fedorov has contributed to, so Boris Stomakhin doesn't seem especially relevant here. Also this statement by Vlad fedorov goes against AGF. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

As could be seen from the complaint, applicants do not show the real evidence of me stalking them, they just provide links to the history pages of some articles. It could be seen from these pages, that my edits, contributed to these articles, are deleted by users Biophys and Colchicum in no more than 24 hours period.

It could be seen that every edit by Vlad without an exception immediately followed our edits, while we have plenty of edits in other parts of Misplaced Pages that have nothing to do with Vlad. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

That I do not follow edits of the user Colchicum and his claims that I disrupt his edits and Misplaced Pages activities are false.

I have never claimed that Vlad followed every edit by me or Biophys. I think this is well above capacities of anybody, if he doesn't want to devote all his life to this. I have claimed that every edit by Vlad followed our edits. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Moreover the articles which he refers to in his support were not created by him, but by user Biophys. Therefore, user Colchicum allegations are not supported by the real facts and are fraudulent.

AGF and no personal attacks, please. Besides, I don't understand why I am supposed to ignore the battle between Vlad and Biophys and to be concerned with myself only. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

User Biophys also openly acknowledged his personal stalking of me (user Vlad fedorov) here http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Colchicum#Thank_you:

Here Biophys simply explains me that I was wrong when I assumed (in User_talk:Alex Bakharev#Vlad) that it is not ethical even to look at anybody's contributions list. I was wrong, I agree. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

It could be easily seen that users Biophys and Colchicum conspired against me not because of stalking, but because my edits and contributions present other point of view, which they do not tolerate and make everything possible in order to harass and intimidate me.

Wrong. There are many pro-Putin, pro-Russian government etc. editors in Misplaced Pages, and we feel perfectly comfortable with this. We feel uncomfortable with somebody who stalk us. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Moreover, Biophys openly hinted on me as an agent of KGB working in the internet here 41.

This is simply ridiculous. Biophys said that according to the source he had cited, there are FSB agents on the Internet. I don't know to what extent this claim is justified, but he has never called you such agent. Frankly, you doesn't act like an agent. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

User Biophys and user Colchicum wage false accusations camapaign against me in order to punish me for presenting my POV in the articles which they feel are important for them. In order to disrupt my work, intimidate and harrass me, they accuse me of violating virtually everything in the Misplaced Pages and persistently publish their accusations on Administrators Incident Noticeboard, 3RR noticeboard, BPL noticeboard.

Could Vlad please prove the alleged persistence of such accusations with links? Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

All this is done with one goal - to silence individuals having other opinion, to punish those who correct their intentional mistakes and malicious disinformation.

AGF. Besides. as far as I know, we have never complained about anybody else, so let's talk of an individual, not individuals. Colchicum 22:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

New episodes of wikistalking by Vlad

Episode 1

I corrected the transliteration of the name of Yevgenia Albats' father , but Vlad fedorov reverted my edits with the following summary: "rv - deletions of information which Ilgiz and Colchicum personally dislike. Deletion of sourced material is a violation of Misplaced Pages policies and vandalism." . Colchicum 13:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

So he doesn't even look at what he is going to revert. He just reverts every edit. Colchicum 13:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that my revertion is explained in detail. I post it right here: Revision as of 06:13, 22 February 2007 (edit) (undo) Vlad fedorov (Talk | contribs) (rv - deletions of information which Ilgiz and Colchicum personally dislike. Deletion of sourced material is a violation of Misplaced Pages policies and vandalism. Do not copy my accusations and present them like your accusations. Vlad fedorov 07:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 2

Vlad also continue deleting a perfectly sourced text from my recent article Persecution of political bloggers claiming nonsense: "rv - because Trepashkin is a journalist, not political blogger, as to FSB internet teams - it is not reliable source". As everyone can see, Mikhail Trepashkin is not related to this text at all. Moreover, all cited sources are perfectly reliable. One source in question is an internet journal with editorial oversight; all articles are signed and dated; this particular article was written by known journalists, one of whom is a former assistant of Galina Starovoitova; and I even provided English translation of this article (at the talk page). Obviously, Vlad continues wikistalking right now. Biophys 15:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Rakhamnkov who wrote the article about Putin's penis is not a blogger. I just confused him with Trepashkin. Rakhmankov is not a blogger. So my deletion was right. Again false accusations by Biophys and Colchicum.Vlad fedorov 07:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

So, Rakhamnkov "is not a journalist" and he "is not a blogger". Then who is he? But regardless to that, you reverted my changes several times saying nonsense "Trepashkin is a journalist", instead of "Rakhmankov is not a blogger" which is something debatable. The problem is: you did that kind of things many times in other articles, and this is exactly wikistalking. Biophys 16:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 3

Vlad continue deleting perfectly sourced official statements made by Union of Councils for Soviet Jews, where this organization condemns persecution of ethnic minorities in Russia. I explained at the talk page why these statements are important. Vlad simply ignores this. Biophys 16:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Everyone could go and see that Biophys inserts unssuported with references texts. Please everyone go there and see yourself. Moreover I revert to the version of administrator Mikkalai who has edited Biophys POV's. Again epmty and false accusation. Vlad fedorov 07:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. Everyone can see that I inserted the following references: . Both are official statements/presentations by official representatives of this human rights organization, one of them in US congress. I provided my arguments in the talk page of UCSJ article, and explained why this citation is so important (everyone can take a look at the provided references and decide if they are important). Mikkalai answered nothing. I respect him greatly; he made outstanding contributions to Misplaced Pages; I can discuss anything with him. Biophys 16:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 4

See Vlad editing of article Active measures that I have developed from stab level.

He writes in the first phrase: " Active Measures, according to the allegations of Mitrokhin Archive, are a form of political warfare conducted by by the Soviet and Russian state security and intelligence services" instead of "Active Measures are a form of political warfare conducted...". First, this is not an "allegation" but definition. Second, it is taken from a published book. Third, this definition has absolutely nothing to do with Mitrokhin archive. But Vlad has reverted this sentence many times!

Vlad inserts words "according to allegations..." at the beginning of each phrase, so the article is impossible to read (but all the references have been provided by me). He includes in the cases where references are included.

Obviously, this is typical wikistalking that completely disrupts my work in Misplaced Pages! I can not negotiate with Vlad about every such nonsense he is doing. I can only revert his changes. Do not you see? That is all my complaints are about.

Almost all his comments are like that. This is not helpful but disruptive. Biophys 16:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

You have referenced this text to Mitrokhin archive, so I just clarified source.Vlad fedorov 07:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Vlad inserts words "according to allegations..." at the beginning of each phrase, so the article is impossible to read (but all the references have been provided by me). He includes in the cases where references are included.

Yes, the references lead to allegations.Vlad fedorov 07:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, this is typical wikistalking that completely disrupts my work in Misplaced Pages! I can not negotiate with Vlad about every such nonsense he is doing. I can only revert his changes. Do not you see? That is all my complaints are about.

Wikistalking is your deletions of my clarifications of sources.Vlad fedorov 07:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Almost all his comments are like that. This is not helpful but disruptive. Biophys 16:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

This is pretty much helpful, because it identifies sources of the information you insert in the article trying to make the readers believe that all that you wrote are the facts and not alegations.Vlad fedorov 07:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

One can simply compare two versions of article Active measures and see if Vlad editing improves this article or quite the opposite. Certainly, this article is not perfect at all, but it is easy to distinguish "good faith" and "bad faith" efforts, at least in this case.Biophys 16:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 5

Please take a look at Vlad's editing of article Anna Politkovskaya. Clearly, this is a personal attack to defame this murdered journalist using unreliable sources. Biophys 16:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Clearly it is editing of your POV and attempts to misrepresent the current sentence. You just present the POV of one man as true, and everything else, including court sentence is wrong and false accroding to Biophys. Again epmty adn false accusation.Vlad fedorov 07:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You cite defamation of late Anna Politkovskaya by a person without good journalist credentials (Arutunayn), which was allegedly ordered by the Putin administration. Yevgenia Albats who made such allegation also became an object of another defamation campaign ordered from "above". It is my personal impression that you are enforcing this defamation campaign of Anna Politkovskaya and Yevgenia Albats in Misplaced Pages (see your own edits).Biophys 17:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 6

Take a look at Putin's Russia by Anna Politkovskaya. Vlad inserted a text that defames book's author, rather than discuss anything about this BOOK. I explained several times at the article's talk page that only criticism of the BOOK is relevant. Not only his editing is POV and defamatory, but it is also completely irrelevant to the subject of the article (the book). I provided a couple of links to critical reviews of the book, but Vlad ignored it and deleted one of the provided references.Biophys 16:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I have inserted pretty much relevant information about reliablity of Politkovskaya works. All sources are referenced. So if you call it 'defamation' - it is just your POV, which you could have of course.Vlad fedorov 07:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

This is article about BOOK. Instead of writing about book, your write about author, although there is a separate article about Anna Politkovskaya. In the article about "War and peace", there is no need to write about Leo Tolstoy. Colchium and me explained this at the talk page. You did not provide any valid counter-arguments, but repeatedly revert our changes. This is wikistalking. Biophys 16:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 7

Vlad repeatedly deletes description of content of David Satter books. See . Vlad claims that text is "offensive for Russian nation". It is irrelevant if the text offensive or not. It correctly describes the content of the books. Certainly it is not offensive, because author writes about Soviet or Russian citizens, not about an ethnic group. I explained this to Vlad several times in talk page, but he does not care. Obviously, this is wikistalking. 23:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 8

Vlad attacks my new article Gang from Lubyanka - a book by Aleksander Litvinenko. I am trying to say a phrase about the content of the book. He does not allow me, telling nonsense: "You can describe facts, and pretend allegations. Grammar Biophys, grammar." See Biophys 23:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Episode 9

Vlad repeatedly removes a segment about Chechnya from article Active measures, although it is supported by 15 reliable references, and it is exactly about the subject. He even removed segments with textbook examples of Leon Trotsky and Georgi Markov claiming that "Political assassinations - Please cite sources, these people were killed earlier than KGB was born" in article Active measures. He said that about murder of Georgi Markov organized by KGB and described in all detail by Oleg Kalugin and Oleg Gordievsky! This is nonsense again. Obviously, such activities can have only one goal: to make my work in Misplaced Pages impossible. Biophys 02:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply to User:ellol (statement signed by Alex Bakharev)

(I mean this statement: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Vlad_fedorov#Response_by_user_Ellol)

We alleged that Vlad violates WP:STALK, WP:BLP, and WP:CIV policies. This statement says absolutely nothing about that. Instead, it says that our dispute is only between two users. This is obviously incorrect. It involves Colchicum and me from one side, and Vlad from the other side.

I would like to note that User:ellol is not a neutral side. He tried to delete references to Anna Politkovskaya from article Human rights in Russia See: (16:04, 21 December 2006 Ellol (Talk | contribs) m (→Political prisoners and detainees - Oh Gosh -- again GULAG? -- kids, when you'll grow up?!). Together, with Vlad they did POV editing of this article. Just as we speak, User:ellol deleted from Human rights in Russia some statements of Sergey Kovalev, a member of Moscow Helsinki Group and former Ombudsman of Russia. Instead, he left statements by Vladimir Lukin, a state official appointed by Putin's administration.

Users Biophys and Ilgiz are not neutral parties too, so what's your problem Biophys?Vlad fedorov 07:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

False claims about Alex Bakharev

No statements of Biophys were signed by Alex Bakharev. Maybe we should ask Alex Bakharev himself?Vlad fedorov 04:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

• I am not sure what you want me to ask, but I will sure answer Alex Bakharev 04:53, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Please see the message of Biophys above, that claims it is sighned by you. Is it true?Vlad fedorov 05:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok I looked at project page and have seen your sign. Thanks Alex. Please, note that Biophys now inserts Putin Phallus at Political Bloggers article, which is weird since Rachmankov wasn't a blogger.Vlad fedorov 05:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposed conflict resolution (compromise)

Administrator physicq made the following suggestion: "I'm going to have to ask both to step back from the article and from each other", see Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive74#Boris_Stomakhin_article_and_inciting_of_ethinic_hatred. So, we can simply follows his advice and stay away from each other's edits. It means the following: I agree do not edit any articles where Vlad did any edits before me (whatever these edits are); and Vlad agrees to do the same with regard to articles I have edited. It is very easy to check who of us edited each article first. Same thing with Colchicum. Such decision treats Vlad and me completely equally. There are thousands of other articles in Misplaced Pages to edit.

Alex, I also would like to listen your opinion about this. If you disagree for any reason, we could discuss this proposal first with you and then with Vlad (so you could be a mediator if you agree). With great respect, Biophys 15:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The only reason you claim this now is because Mediation case on Boris Stomakhin turned against you. Moreover Biophys wants that mediator endorse him with censors rights. Certainly he wants to abuse me more and more, and to harass me. If you Alex would respond to him, he would consider it as a cessation (conveyance) of administrators rights to him.Vlad fedorov 07:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

How could I "abuse" you if we would not interfere in WP any more? To the contrary, no one of us would be abused this way. What I suggested is the easiest way to minimize distraction.Biophys 19:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Response to Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Vlad_fedorov#Outside_view_by_Alex_Bakharev

Alex, I disagree, but this is not the point. The point is: we want to find some practical solution without arbitration if possible. What I proposed above is the easiest practical solution. Vlad completely blocked my work in Misplaced Pages and made significant damage to work of Colchicum who is probably the best editor on modern Russian history at the moment, in my opinion (Colchicum spent a lot of time to file this claim, and it is for him to decide was his work damaged by Vlad or not).

Please take a look at the examples of "Episodes" described above at this page. One can go through many articles and see numerous examples of obvious and clear wikistalking by Vlad Fedorov. One can also take a look at Vlad's edits of Colchicum's articles, such as deleting of Putin's photo from article Vladimir Putin legislation and program. Obviously, that is wikistalking of us both. Otherwise, Colchicum would never filed this complaint. Biophys 16:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

False and empty accusations. I have deleted photo of Putin because it claimed it is from its KGB ID, which is a false fact, because photos for ID's bear stamps and are taken not of the whole man, just head and shoulders. Colchicum lied when he wrote that it is a photo from Putin id. Moreover, I highly doubt if Colchicum has copyrights to publish this photo in Misplaced Pages. Could Colchicum present here source from which he has taken this photo and evidence that he has proper copyrights on it?Vlad fedorov 06:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Response to Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Vlad_fedorov#Outside_view_by_xyzzy_n

xyzzy_n said: "I feel that both users’ purpose here is not to write an encyclopaedia conforming to the core content policies but to make articles on Russian politics conform to their own political views." Yes, I partially agree with him. He is right with regard to Vlad (and this is relevant because we discuss Vlad here). However, I would like to argue that he is not quite fair about me (although this might be not relevant to this Request for comments).

First, I have created a number of articles in Misplaced Pages and worked seriously on many others. Half of these articles are science, not history or politics. All these articles are well sourced (I often provide 30-60 references), so there is no much place for POV. Therefore, I did not come to Wikipdeia to promote my personal views. Yes, I have certain views as everyone else, but main point is to produce good verifiable articles. I am working very seriously with sources. I invite anyone but Vlad to look at the articles that I have created or extensively edited and improve them. Vlad created no articles. The only thing he did is wikistalking, especially when Stomakhin article was locked (just as Colchicum said - so this is not only my point; it was not me who brought this complaint here).

Second, I negotiated probably with at least 50 Misplaced Pages users (including people who are "pro-Putin"), and never had any problems with them except Vlad.

Third, xyzzy_n claims that I did not actually try to enforce BLP policy. Yes, I did. Take a look here Talk:Boris_Stomakhin#Violations_of_LP_policy and judge yourself. Yes, I do have a bias toward writing non-offensive biographies of any living people whoever they are. So far, I was involved in four disputes of that kind on biographies of Sergei Kovalev, Boris Stomakhin, Yevgenia Albats and Mansoor Ijaz (he is also on the living person's notice board). You can check were my actions fair or not (I only asked everyone to provide a reliable source) . I had problems only in two cases Boris Stomakhin and Yevgenia Albats where Vlad intervene. Also note that I edited biography of Valentin Korabelnikov, a GRU boss who allegedly organized Russian apartment bombings. Note, that I did not write a single critical word about him, because this is BLP.

Fourth, everyone can take a look at Talk:Boris_Stomakhin article and see that I actually tried to establish some civilized rules for this discussion after this article was locked. See this: Talk:Boris_Stomakhin#Setting_the_rules. I said there: "Let's have 3-day cooling off period." Vlad Fedorov rejected these rules. No surprisingly, we could not have a civilized and productive discussion. Still, I made a significant effort to negotiate with ellol and Vlad even when Vlad rejected these rules.Biophys 19:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

On the first and second point, I did not go through your contributions. If you have other areas of interest, why not just step away from Russian politics? On the third point, your understanding of WP:BLP is flawed. It does not imply hagiography but merely asks that articles about living people should be well sourced. On the fourth point, as anyone can see on that talk page, instead of trying to resolve the dispute quickly, you used stall tactics. With that, and also Vlad’s behaviour, in mind, my view is biased against both of you. —xyzzy_n 20:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you are reading my mind. I just would like to step away from Russian politics. But I have done some hard work there. Therefore, I can not allow Vlad to destroy all my work. Of course, there are many other people who are doing editing of the same articles (see for example, Anatoliy Golitsyn or editing of FSB by everyone except Vlad); but those are "good faith" edits (I even made once a change in response to a "simple vandalism" - but this "vandal" actually had a valid point - one of my statements was unsourced, so I deleted the statement, but Vlad restored it back - in Anatoliy Golitsyn). That is why I suggested "Proposed conflict resolution (compromise)" above. That would allow me to do something different. Is that "compromise" reasonable? Biophys 20:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

As on the third point (WP:BLP), I disagree. Not only sources should be reliable, but the article must be NPOV according to WP:BLP rules, and that was one of major problems with Boris Stomakhin article. Biophys 21:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Boris Stomakhin is a criminal sentenced by the court. If you consider him innocent or defamed, please refer this matter to the court, otherwise do not pretend you are objective, or that your POV is objective - it is original research. If we are to judge by your criteria, we should also consider Osama Bin Laden innocent disident who is defamed by Western Media and Western Governments. I am not forcing you to give up your POV on Stomakhin, but the problem you delete other POV and try to make all to belive that majority thinks Stomakhin is dissident, while Russian blogs, forums and messageboards are full of description of Stomakhin as jackass and idiot. Here is on Russian just some links at which Stomakhin is called at least idiot: http://forum.cofe.ru/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90192, http://forum.cofe.ru/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90192&pagenumber=2, http://www.jsotech.com/index.php?showtopic=7124&pid=216279&mode=threaded&start=, http://lj.rossia.org/users/kouzdra/101804.html, http://www.forum.tiraspol.net/topicView.aspx?topicID=2840, http://www.specnaz.ru/comments2.phtml?id=652, http://komissarov.livejournal.com/385943.html, http://www.forum-tvs.ru/lofiversion/index.php?t3001.html, http://punk.antifa.ru/yforum/showthread.php?t=2465&page=5, http://dirty.ru/comments/124389, http://forum.memo.ru/index.php?t=msg&th=562&start=120&S=87c475b413fe4b1afcb2be07020d8679, http://vnovodvorskaia.livejournal.com/64239.html, http://timt.livejournal.com/114321.html, http://5h00.livejournal.com/tag/dorks, http://forum.median.ru/viewtopic.php?t=13584&sid=3e33de1895082525dbe266e450e0cf3d, http://shoo.count0.ru/2006/12/07/mitsgol-vsyo/feed/, http://www.radikaly.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=953&view=previous&sid=8366c0767b70a22252614293e859e030, http://www.gambler.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=466841&st=120, http://www.securitylab.ru/news/277392.php?PAGEN_1=3&phrase_id=24552, http://warrax.net/55/ru_unhuman_02.html, http://mehanik-kb.livejournal.com/, http://andvari-loki.livejournal.com/66183.html, http://lovemix.ru/showthread.php?t=3814&page=23.

Attempts by Biophys to present Stomakhin as a dissident is called violations of NPOV Misplaced Pages policy.Vlad fedorov 06:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

See my reply to this in next chapter.Biophys 16:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Why we disagree with Vlad

One thing about WP:BLP rules. I believe the most immoral thing we can do in Misplaced Pages is a defamation of a living person who does not deserve it. And it is especially the case if this person (say Boris Stomakhin) has been unjustly arrested and sent to prison with broken bones, according to CPJ, ARTICLE 19, and Vladimir Bukovsky. I guess this is our biggest disagreement with Vlad Fedorov who is working to defame people who were killed for defending human rights (see his edits of Anna Politkovskaya and Putin's Russia). Yes, we do have serious disagreements with Vlad. But these are disagreements of moral values. That is why we can not reconciliate. Biophys 20:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Boris Stomakhin is a criminal sentenced by the court. If you consider him innocent or defamed, please refer this matter to the court, otherwise do not pretend you are objective, or that your POV is objective - it is original research. If we are to judge by your criteria, we should also consider Osama Bin Laden innocent disident who is defamed by Western Media and Western Governments. I am not forcing you to give up your POV on Stomakhin, but the problem you delete other POV and try to make all to belive that majority thinks Stomakhin is dissident, while Russian blogs, forums and messageboards are full of description of Stomakhin as jackass and idiot. Here is on Russian just some links at which Stomakhin is called at least idiot: http://forum.cofe.ru/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90192, http://forum.cofe.ru/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90192&pagenumber=2, http://www.jsotech.com/index.php?showtopic=7124&pid=216279&mode=threaded&start=, http://lj.rossia.org/users/kouzdra/101804.html, http://www.forum.tiraspol.net/topicView.aspx?topicID=2840, http://www.specnaz.ru/comments2.phtml?id=652, http://komissarov.livejournal.com/385943.html, http://www.forum-tvs.ru/lofiversion/index.php?t3001.html, http://punk.antifa.ru/yforum/showthread.php?t=2465&page=5, http://dirty.ru/comments/124389, http://forum.memo.ru/index.php?t=msg&th=562&start=120&S=87c475b413fe4b1afcb2be07020d8679, http://vnovodvorskaia.livejournal.com/64239.html, http://timt.livejournal.com/114321.html, http://5h00.livejournal.com/tag/dorks, http://forum.median.ru/viewtopic.php?t=13584&sid=3e33de1895082525dbe266e450e0cf3d, http://shoo.count0.ru/2006/12/07/mitsgol-vsyo/feed/, http://www.radikaly.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=953&view=previous&sid=8366c0767b70a22252614293e859e030, http://www.gambler.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=466841&st=120, http://www.securitylab.ru/news/277392.php?PAGEN_1=3&phrase_id=24552, http://warrax.net/55/ru_unhuman_02.html, http://mehanik-kb.livejournal.com/, http://andvari-loki.livejournal.com/66183.html, http://lovemix.ru/showthread.php?t=3814&page=23.

Attempts by Biophys to present Stomakhin as a dissident is called violations of NPOV Misplaced Pages policy.Vlad fedorov 06:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

First, this is all irrelevant, since we discuss Vlad here, not Stomakhin or me. Second, I have never defended any terrorrists. I am strongly against any violence. But Stomakhin was prosecuted for free speech according to CPJ, ARTICLE 19 and all human rights activists, such as Vladimir Bukovsky (he did not do and did not plan to do anything violent according even to his court sentence). This is not my opinion, this is not OR. Since he has been prosecuted by Putin's government, there is a huge defamation campaign about him in Russian state-controlled media (exactly as it was against all Soviet dissidents in the past). Vlad simply wants to enforce this defamation campaign here, in Misplaced Pages, in my opinion Biophys 16:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

References

1. The "Stupidity of the year" contest. Who is going to win: the government, democrats, nationalists? by Yevgenia Albats, 23 October 2006, EZh (Russian online magazine).
2. http://www.rusk.ru/st.php?idar=162715 Avrom Shmulevich. "State authorities prepare Jewish pogroms in Russia". November 3rd, 2006. Orthodox information agency. (On Russian)
3. http://jig.ru/index4.php/2006/11/08/marsh-kotorogo-ne-bylo.html "The March which wasn't". International Jewish Newspaper.
4. http://www.vz.ru/columns/2006/11/29/58857.html Maksim Grigorev. "Return of evil dead 2". November 29, 2006, Business Newspaper Vzglyad.(On Russian)
5. http://polithexogen.ru/info/38797.html Ivan Melnik. "Demschizo on march". October 23, 2006 Politgexogen, the most blowing news. (On Russian).
6. http://polithexogen.ru/info/38969.html TopGapon - List of instigators. Analytics board. November 3, 2006 Politgexogen, the most blowing news.(On Russian).
7. http://www.utro.ru/articles/2006/11/01/597721.shtml Lexander Krajchek. "Moscow facing the holiday provocation". November 1, 2006. Utro.ru (On Russian)
8. http://www.russ.ru/politics/reakcii/russkij_marsh_ili_krovavoe_voskresen_e Vladimir Mozhegov. "Russian March or Bloody Sunday?" Russian Journal, March 10, 2007 (On Russian).
9. http://www.molgvardia.ru/news-item.php?id=905 Andrey Tatarinov "The real Russian March would be organized by... us!!!" Molodaya Gvardia October 31, 2006 (On Russian).
10. http://www.russtv.ru/content2/patriot/russ_otpor/otpor11.shtml Natalia Cholmogorova. "Waking up:Russian March of November 4th, 2006". Russian Orthodox TV.(On Russian)
11. http://www.apn.ru/publications/article11087.htm Vadim Veshezerov. "Children of defeat". December 6th, 2006. APN - Agency of Political News. (On Russian)
12. http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/albac/39792/ Transcipt of "Full Albats" talk show. November 6, 2005