| Revision as of 14:10, 4 October 2022 editHistoryofIran (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers97,610 edits →Requested move 28 September 2022← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 17:54, 31 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,303,118 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Iranian peoples/Archive 9) (bot |
| (64 intermediate revisions by 26 users not shown) |
| Line 22: |
Line 22: |
|
|currentstatus=FFA |
|
|currentstatus=FFA |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|1= |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|1= |
|
{{WikiProject Ethnic groups|importance=high|class=b}} |
|
{{WikiProject Ethnic groups|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Iran|importance=Top|class=b}} |
|
{{WikiProject Iran|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Kurdistan|class=b|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Kurdistan|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Caucasia|class=b|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Caucasia|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Azerbaijan|class=b|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Azerbaijan|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Tajikistan|class=b|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Tajikistan|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Syria|class=b|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Syria|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Ossetia|class=b|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Ossetia|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Iraq|class=b|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Iraq|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Pakistan|class=b|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Pakistan|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Turkey|class=b|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Turkey|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Afghanistan|class=b|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Afghanistan|importance=High}} |
|
{{WikiProject Central Asia|class=b|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Central Asia|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Western Asia|class=b|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Western Asia|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Eastern Europe|class=b|importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Eastern Europe|importance=low}} |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{tmbox |
|
{{tmbox |
| Line 47: |
Line 47: |
|
|algo=old(90d) |
|
|algo=old(90d) |
|
|archive=Talk:Iranian peoples/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|archive=Talk:Iranian peoples/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|counter=8 |
|
|counter=9 |
|
|maxarchivesize=100K |
|
|maxarchivesize=100K |
|
|archiveheader={{Automatic archive navigator}} |
|
|archiveheader={{Automatic archive navigator}} |
| Line 53: |
Line 53: |
|
|minthreadstoarchive=1 |
|
|minthreadstoarchive=1 |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
|
{{old move|date=28 September 2022|from=Iranian peoples|destination=Iranic peoples|result=Not moved|link=Talk:Iranian_peoples#Requested_move_28_September_2022}} |
|
|
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=iranpol}} |
|
|
{{TOCleft}}{{clear}} |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Potentially inaccurate information about Iranian tribes == |
|
== Nonsense sources. == |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Different tribes are named as Iranian tribes with no references. Please either cite a prominent resource or remove that part. |
|
''Mehrjoo, Zohreh; Fattahi, Zohreh; Beheshtian, Maryam; Mohseni, Marzieh; Poustchi, Hossein; Ardalani, Fariba; Jalalvand, Khadijeh; Arzhangi, Sanaz; Mohammadi, Zahra; Khoshbakht, Shahrouz; Najafi, Farid'' |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Revising the section on the history of Western vs. Eastern Iranian peoples == |
|
What's that nonsense sided iranian sources with full of propaganda about this so called heterogenicty of bmac Iranians with %3 Aryan elements lol :) ] (]) 14:44, 28 April 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
I would suggest revising the sections on the history of Eastern and Western Iranian peoples. Firstly, the division into Eastern and Western is a linguistic one and not necessarily the best way to distinguish between different cultural groups. In fact, the section on Eastern Iranian peoples includes only Steppe-Iranian peoples who spoke languages that are categorised as Eastern but lived north or even west of the Western Iranians and are culturally very different from the Iranian peoples in the eastern part of the Iranian plateau. Moreover, Avestan is not an eastern Iranian language, but is so old that it preceded the division is west vs. east. Secondly, it is the people who lived in the eastern parts of ] who gave their name to this somewhat confusing category, but they are absent from this part of the article. Thirdly, I would suggest adding a section on the ] who actually lived in the eastern part of Greater Iran and are not yet covered in this article. ] (]) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Persian was spoken in court in the Ottoman Empire? == |
|
== Western Iranians and Eastern Iranians == |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Whats the source of this claim? Or is this another Persian propaganda? ] (]) 18:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
The difference between Western Iranians (the Medes and Persians) and Eastern Iranians or immigrants began when the Western Iranians converted to the religion of Zoroastrianism and called themselves Aryans, and then came to the iranian plateau. But the Eastern Iranians remained on the ancient Iranian religions. The Parthians, who were from the eastern Iranian tribes, when they formed an empire and came to the Iranian plateau, continued to follow ancient religions, but gradually settled in the cities under the influence of the western Iranian culture. Until during the Sassanid period, they followed the Zoroastrian religion and merged with the Western Iranians. ] (]) 16:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
:Kindly read ]. What exactly is "another Persian propaganda"? |
|
== Requested move 28 September 2022 == |
|
|
|
:* ''"As the Ottoman Turks learned Persian, the language and the culture it carried seeped not only into their court and imperial institutions but also into their vernacular language and culture. The appropriation of Persian, both as a second language and as a language to be steeped together with Turkish, was encouraged notably by the sultans, the ruling class, and leading members of the mystical communities."'' -- Inan, Murat Umut (2019) "Imperial Ambitions, Mystical Aspirations: Persian Learning in the Ottoman World" in Green, Nile (ed.). The Persianate World: The Frontiers of a Eurasian Lingua Franca. University of California Press. pp. 88–89. |
|
|
:* "''Persian served as a ‘minority’ prestige language of culture at the largely Turcophone Ottoman court."'' -- Baki Tezcan. (2012). "Ottoman Historical Writing" in José Rabasa (ed). '' The Oxford History of Historical Writing: Volume 3: 1400-1800 The Oxford History of Historical Writing: Volume 3: 1400-1800 ''. pp. 192–211 |
|
|
: - ] (]) 00:39, 4 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:I dont know man, what are those Persian poems doing on topkapi Palace? |
|
|
:Probably some more Persian propaganda ] (]) 09:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 December 2024 == |
|
{{requested move/dated|Iranic peoples}} |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
{{edit extended-protected|Iranian peoples|answered=yes}} |
|
] → {{no redirect|Iranic peoples}} – The same as we differentiate ] from ] or ] and ] we should differentiate between ] (people of Iran) and ] (pan ethnic term). The current article is about 'Iranic peoples'. ] (]) 21:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
Add Iranian diaspora map to infobox. |
|
*'''Neutral''' <s>''Oppose''</s>. based on ]. Based on the Google Ngrams, "Iranian peoples" is far more common than "Iranic peoples". Compare this to "Germanic peoples" vs "German peoples", and "Turkic peoples" vs "Turkish peoples". ] (]) 21:43, 28 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
*'''Oppose'''. "Iranic peoples" is not a commonly used term in the scholarly literature compared to "Iranian peoples". ] (]) 22:01, 28 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
:* ], ] but ] is not the only ]. {{tq|'''Precision''' – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects.}} ''Iranian people'' could also refer to Iranians, i. e. people of Iran. {{tq|'''Consistency''' – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles.}} ] vs ], ] vs ], ] vs ], ] vs ] etc. --] (]) 08:44, 29 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
::*I am somewhat persuaded by your argument, but the Google Ngrams are pretty persuasive too. If the 2 terms were at least a little closer in usage I would support, but for now I will change to neutral and think about this some more. ] (]) 20:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
*'''Oppose'''. I think the title of this article should indeed use Iranic but evidence shows that its far from comparable with Iranian peoples. Altough Ngrams is not the only way for showing which name is more common. ] ] ] 21:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
] ] (]) 11:34, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
|
* '''Support''' as per nominator and the explaination he gave below. With current title it's quite confusing so it needs to be moved to the precise title. ] <sup>(])</sup> 02:13, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
:{{not done}}:<!-- Template:EEp --> This artice is about the Iranian ''peoples'', not about Iranians. See the hatnote and the opening sentence of this article. –] (]) 11:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
Using Iranic is strongly adviced. It's ethno-social language family, Trying to make the language family ethnicity is only an absurdity that Iranian propagandists brainwashed with paniranism will believe. |
|
|
|
|
|
If someone seriously agree with using Iranian, then we should replace Finnic with "Finns" or we should call Scandinavians as Germans or maybe we should use "Turks" for entire Turkic community. |
|
|
|
|
|
I have not been able to understand why some nationalist polices still tend to create a false nation, while even Iranic encyclopedias confirm what I am saying. |
|
|
|
|
|
"In the following discussion of 'Iranian peoples,' the term 'Iranian' may be understood in two ways. It is, first of all, a linguistic classification, intended to designate any society which inherited or adopted, and transmitted, an Iranian language. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
https://iranicaonline.org/articles/iran-v1-peoples-survey ] (]) 12:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
* '''Oppose''' Due to the vast difference there is in ]. --] (]) 14:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC) |
|
Different tribes are named as Iranian tribes with no references. Please either cite a prominent resource or remove that part.
I would suggest revising the sections on the history of Eastern and Western Iranian peoples. Firstly, the division into Eastern and Western is a linguistic one and not necessarily the best way to distinguish between different cultural groups. In fact, the section on Eastern Iranian peoples includes only Steppe-Iranian peoples who spoke languages that are categorised as Eastern but lived north or even west of the Western Iranians and are culturally very different from the Iranian peoples in the eastern part of the Iranian plateau. Moreover, Avestan is not an eastern Iranian language, but is so old that it preceded the division is west vs. east. Secondly, it is the people who lived in the eastern parts of Greater Iran who gave their name to this somewhat confusing category, but they are absent from this part of the article. Thirdly, I would suggest adding a section on the Avestan people who actually lived in the eastern part of Greater Iran and are not yet covered in this article. Kjansen86 (talk)
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: This artice is about the Iranian peoples, not about Iranians. See the hatnote and the opening sentence of this article. –Austronesier (talk) 11:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)