Talk:Cloud: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 23:46, 27 February 2007 editSparrowsWing (talk \| contribs)7,011 editsm Reverted 1 edit by 130.13.240.70 identified as vandalism to last revision by 128.95.172.173. using TW ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 22:08, 23 November 2024 edit undoOsamaBinLogin (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users686 edits →Adding moisture to the air: percentage by mass or volume?
(268 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown)
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~WPCD~~}}		{{Talk header}}
			{{ArticleHistory
	{{meteorology\|class=B\|importance=Top}}
			\|action1=PR
	{{oldpeerreview}}
			\|action1date=19:23, 25 May 2006
	{{external peer review
			\|action1link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Cloud/archive1
	\| date = December 14, 2005
			\|action1result=reviewed
	\| org = Nature
			\|action1oldid=55275513
	\| comment = It was found to have 5 errors.}}

			\|action2=GAN
	I'm skeptical that Cumulonimbus with mammatus and pileus should be in the high altitude section rather than in section D. Can someone with greater authority in the area look this over? ] 19:03, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
			\|action2date=03:23, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
			\|action2link=Talk:Cloud/GA1
			\|action2result=failed
			\|action2oldid=642387424

			\|action3=PR
	can someone who knows about clouds add ], ] and ] into this article so that ''Coalescence'' ceases from being an orphan? ] 23:09 May 13, 2003 (UTC)
			\|action3date=23:59, 26 March 2017
			\|action3link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Cloud/archive2
			\|action3result=reviewed
			\|action3oldid=772386554

			\|action4=GAN
	:(] 19:47, 2004 Mar 31 (UTC)) Done.
			\|action4date=19:34, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
			\|action4link=Talk:Cloud/GA2
			\|action4result=listed
			\|action4oldid=841252557

			\|currentstatus=GA
			\|topic=Earth sciences}}
			{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=GA\|vital=yes\|1=
			{{WikiProject Chemistry\|importance=low}}
			{{WikiProject Climate change\|importance=Mid}}
			{{WikiProject Weather\|importance=Top \|general-meteorology-task-force=yes}}
			}}

			{{User:MiszaBot/config
			\|algo = old(30d)
			\|archive = Talk:Cloud/Archive %(counter)d
			\|counter =1
			\|maxarchivesize = 150K
			\|archiveheader = {{tan}}
			\|minthreadstoarchive = 1
			\|minthreadsleft = 10
			}}

			==Some thoughts on clouds: Altocumulus Cas. & Altocumulus of a Chaotic Sky==
	----------
			Cloud identification began and was fulfilled within the ranges of the Temperate climate zone. Not surprisingly, "weather" is at home within this region! Having worked in the Sub-Tropical/Arid climate zone for the past 60 years, it does seem that there a additions/modifications/adaptations which need to be made to adapt to the types seen in these skies in close relation to weather events. Both Ac Cas: Ac 8 and Ac 9 are described in the various cloud atlases with reference to there being a link to air of a tropical source, but from observation within that tropical source. some enlargement would seem appropriate. Clearly, these cloud types are indicative of considerable turbulence in their cloud height above ground range. What I have seen is that Ac 9, in particular, is able to "go beserk" and create a cumulonimbus development which, once formed, adds to its mass as cloud gathers beneath the initial base, merging with it quite quickly, while cloud top expands vertically quickly topping out at typical cumulonimbus top levels. The thundery identity is now active. The base is perhaps some 10 to 12000 feet above surface. My query is about cloud identity. Is this now Cb9 in its low cloud identity? While co-existing with other Ac9 patches across the sky. The point is that the variations between Temperate and Sub-Tropical clouds are not always identified and clarified for various users

			==improving intro==
	This from a duplicate page. some bits may need merging:

			Currently it says:
	==Cloud Types==
			"Terrestrial cloud formation is the result of air in any of the lower three principal layers of Earth's atmosphere (collectively known as the homosphere) becoming saturated due to either or both of two processes: cooling of the air and adding water vapor."
	* ], ], ], ]
	** ], ]
	** ], ]
	** ], ]
	** ]
	** ], ]s, ]s

			What does "adding water vapour" mean? Adding it to what and who does the adding?!
	Cumulus clouds are usually created through thermal convection or frontal lift.
			Suggestion :

			Clouds are formed by the saturation of air in the ]. This saturation occurs due to the cooling of the air or/and its contact with water vapor.
	See ].

			== Pending edit ==
	-- Tarquin
			Why is my Oct. 31 edit not automatically accepted? I thought auto-confirmed users were supposed to be exempt from any extra anti-vandalism protections put on the article. I'm the one who did the most to get this article its GA rating.
			~~] (]) 10:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
			:Huh, that's very strange. I'm not sure what's going on that's causing that. I've accepted the edit. —] (]) 10:43, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

			== in approximate ascending order of convective activity ==
	: And which page is it from? I Wiki-searched and Googled without results. --] 09:06 30 May 2003 (UTC)
			What on earth does that mean? That's definitely not going to be understandable by a lay-reader. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:12, 25 January 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			* Sorry it's taken awhile to see your comments. The sentence you're partly quoting includes an inline link too the Misplaced Pages article "Convection" which I think adequately explains about that subject, but that's just my opinion. Do you think some readers might also have trouble understanding the reference to "ascending order of" and/or "convective activity" after checking out the linked article? If so, I guess I could just delete that sentence and let the text that follows speak for itself. I think those who understand sufficiently will see the forms are described in ascending order of instability and convective activity, and for those to don't notice that, maybe it doesn't really matter if it's not brought to their attention. Do you think just removing the sentence is the best solution?~~] (]) 11:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
	== Interesting topic that should be included. ==

			== Suggestion for lead ==
	I came across an interesting cloud question, and I think this arctile should cover this.

			Perhaps it would be a good idea to add the importance to climate change and relegate some naming details.] (]) 14:54, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
	How much does a cloud weight?

			*Sorry it's taken awhile to see your comments. I like your suggestion so I'll see what I can come up with.~~] (]) 12:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
	here is one answer (detailed):
	http://www.weatherwise.org/qr/qry.cloudweight.html

	== ~~More~~ ~~photographs~~ ~~available~~ ==		== Tabular overview citations ==

			Re this section + table:
	I am an amateur photographer and have taken many cloud pictures. Anyone with an interest in adding more pictures to the right places may feel free to use my photographs. You can find them at . I don't know what Misplaced Pages requires, but I will provide whatever is necessary to ensure release into the public domain.
			"The tabular overview that follows is very broad in scope. It draws from several methods of cloud classification, both formal and informal, used in different levels of the Earth's homosphere by a number of cited authorities."

			I believe this needs citations added to:
	--] 09:01, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
			- "several methods of cloud classification"
			(which methods? Without references we don't know where to look for further information, or if the methods are legitimate)
			and
			-"a number of cited authorities"
			(They are not cited in this passage so we don't know which of the citations in the article as a whole are relevant. And without saying who these authorities are, we don't know if they are legitimate either)

			Unfortunately I think this will be down to the original author of the table to resolve, as other editors won't know the sources that were used to draw this table together. We also don't know if this table would be an acceptable to experts in the field as it seems to be the creation of the writer. ] (]) 23:39, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
	== Why do clouds stay aloft? ==
			:I'm more confused on the purpose of the table right in the lead. I understand the article is going to be broad but that info should at least be below the lead. That table has to be an issue with mobile devices. – ] (]) 17:21, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
			::The lead and the table were combined a few years ago when both were short enough to appear together and seemed complimentary enough to fulfill a similar purpose, namely to provide a broad overview to a broad subject. However, both components have grown to the extent that they are now probably too large to be kept together, so I've separated the two and and placed the table just below the toc so the lead and the table are still close enough together to carry out their complimentary functions.] (]) 05:20, 04 March 2021 (UTC)] (]) 05:21, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

			== Record cold ==
	I came across a page that describes fully (and I believe correctly) why clouds stay aloft here: http://www.amasci.com/miscon/miscon4.html#cld

			"In this study, we describe clustered storm overshoots in the tropical West Pacific on December 29, 2018 that resulted in the Visible Infrared Imaging Radiometer Suite (VIIRS) aboard NOAA-20 measuring a temperature of 161.96K (-111.2°C), which is, to our knowledge, the coldest on record." I checked ] and it doesn't seem like there's a place for that there, but perhaps it can go here or in another subarticle. Or maybe it's just trivia. ] (]) 02:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
	It appears that the Misplaced Pages and his reasoning are in conflict. In the Wiki article, you claim in the same paragraph that clouds wiegh several million tonnes and that updrafts keep all those tonnes of water up there. I don't know any updraft capable of holding that much water airborne. If there were such a thing, we should build a generator of one and build a city in the sky ;)

			== Adding moisture to the air ==
	Joking aside, there is a very easy counter-example to site to disprove the 'small droplet' explanation. A cloud machine, like you see in the mall. Those small water dishes that generate 'clouds' The material doesn't rise and it certainly isn't slowed down by it's size (much).... it races to the floor!

			As of 2021-07-11, the section on "Adding moisture to the air" does NOT include the word ].
	The reason clouds remain aloft is that they are warmer inside than the surrounding air, so they float just like a hot air balloon! Simple.

			I read, "Several main sources of water vapor can be added to the air as a way of achieving saturation without any cooling process: water or moist ground, precipitation or virga, and transpiration from plants".
	Some of the dynamics sited in the article are certainly valid, such as the dynamic processes within a cloud. However they sidestep the reason millions of tonnes of water stay up there (and how.)

			I'm changing this to read, "Several main sources of water vapor can be added to the air as a way of achieving saturation without any cooling process: ] from surface water or moist ground, precipitation or virga, and transpiration from plants."
	I have also noted the absence in many explanations of the source of cloud updrafts. Many people describe the strong updrafts within a thunderstorm and thier effects on a hapless pilots who may navigate them, but what it the source? It is a second proof of the temperature explanation of cloud bouyancy. Updrafts occur when the warmer air between water droplets is separated from the droplets and the warmer air shoots upward.

			If this is NOT correct, I trust someone will correct me.
	In other words, I can prove hot air is keeping the cloud up there. Because when it rains, hot air shoots skyward! It also shoots out of my mouth.

			NICE TO HAVE: Might anyone have a table giving rough percentages of moisture from different sources? Clearly from oceans and lakes, evaporation from the exposed surface would be 100 percent of the moisture. Virga is retaining water in the atmosphere -- evaporating or sublimating before it reaches the surface. Thanks, ] (]) 04:22, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
	Mark DiNubila

			I would also like to see some numbers about what percentage (by mass or volume) of cloud air is water particles? CO₂ at 400ppm reflects dangerous amounts of infrared. How does that compare to clouds percentage of water particles or vapor? ] (]) 22:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
	*Those "small droplets" produced by humidifiers and similar devices are huge relative to the droplets within clouds. If you doubt the power of air currents within clouds to maintain lift, go outside on the next foggy day and notice the effect of microturbulence on real droplets. Get a pair of binoculars and look at the edge of a cumulus cloud if you think rising air can't manage to keep droplets aloft. You may also check http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-06/1117621104.Es.r.html for an answer to the question in your title. ]] 00:12, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)

			== "Angkulye" listed at ] ==
	: Please give evidence for your above assertion that ''"those 'small droplets' produced by humidifiers and similar devices are huge relative to the droplets within clouds."'' I suspect it's wrong. If typical cloud droplets fall at a few mm/second, then humidifier droplets must be far smaller, rather than larger: observe a bowl full of humidifer fog. The individual droplets fall much more slowly than a few mm/second. However, because sufficiently small droplets are essentially "stuck" in the surrounding air, a group of small neighboring droplets is able to drag the air between them downwards far faster than the droplets would fall individually. Droplet-filled air of sufficient density acts like a dense uniform gas, and will organize itself into a density current if given the opportunity to flow downwards. A similar effect is commonly seen in volcano plumes, where the rising cloud of hot gas and ash sometimes becomes more dense than surrounding air and therefore descends to form a ground-hugging ]. A flow of humidifier steam is analogous to a pyroclastic surge, where the individual particles may descend slowly, but the particle-laden air can flow downwards extremely rapidly. (This, though fog, is considerably warmer than the surrounding air! Same as volcanic surge.) So, why does the droplet-laden air within clouds NOT form a descending plume? --] 02:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
			]
			A discussion is taking place to address the redirect ]. The discussion will occur at ] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 17:05, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

			== Maybe someone would like to try to get this article featured ==
	::One more point, and please check my following math. If ten grams of droplets condense in a cubic meter of air, they release 23 kJ of heat energy, which warms the KG of air by 23C degrees. But the presence of the droplets increases the average density of the air by 1%. This increased density is the equivalent of cooling the air by 3C degrees to increase it's density. Therefore, as droplets condense, the expansion of heated cloud wins out over the added weight of droplets by a factor of about 7:1! Compared to the bouyancy of the heated air, the added weight of droplets is usually insignificant. I suspect that this is why textbooks don't mention the added density of droplets. Yet if we want to say why clouds stay up, we must explicitly explain these issues, and not just pretend that the density contribution of droplets is magically insignificant. --] 08:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

			{{u\|Rollcloud}} or anyone else interested,

			I noticed this article when looking through the "good" articles related to the climate change project: this looks very good and could perhaps be improved to "featured". I have to admit I gave up in frustration with my only attempt at getting an article featured so I am not going to try myself. But I see you have been doing great work keeping ] featured, and {{u\|ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31}} is an expert on this very important subject, so maybe you might consider ] ] (]) 07:27, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
	*What is the difference between fog and clouds? One thing... temperature differential!
	*What is the source of the 'updrafts' keeping clouds up there, at the edge of clouds? There is no external updraft! The forming of cloudstuff on the edge of clouds is the result of water vapor going from a gas to a liquid and heating the surrounding air, keeping it bouyant, even rising. There is no big fan on the edge of clouds blowing the material up holding it there.
	MD

	Its a combination of many different factors - hence the many different types of clouds. Some clouds stay aloft, some don't, and some are 80,000 metres above the ground (]s), some are 500. -- ] 23:54, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

	:Good point... my explanation on http://amasci.com/miscon/miscon4.html would apply to "typical clouds" and cannot be universal. For example, ]s and ] clouds remain stationary in strong wind because they simultaneously condense at their leading edge and evaporate at their trailing edge. They are not physical objects at all, they are patterns, therefore the weight of the droplets is irrelevant. Another issue: the ] is about 1.1KG/M^3, and if the added density contributed by the cloud droplets is insignificant compared to that of existing air, then no downward density current should arise, and the cloud should remain aloft simply because the individual droplets fall very slowly. (Similarly, if the temperature of a region of air is insignificantly lower than that of surrounding air, no downdraft should form.) What then is "insignificant?" If typical cloud-stuff increases the air's average density by about 1%, that's similar to making the air denser by cooling it by roughly 3 degC. Will a cloud-sized region of cold air form a downdraft if it's only 3 degC cooler than its surroundings? If so, then by analogy the increased density caused by cloud droplets must create a downdraft ...unless the condensation-warmed air in the cloud produces a compensating bouyant force. --] 03:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

	==Some Images==

	I uploaded these images, , and , (image references obvious by their filename) - which are high altitude photos of clouds from ], and I was wondering if it would be appropriate to insert them in either the Mount Kinabalu Article or the ] article, because I know both of them are already image saturated. The thing is that I'm not too sure of all the cloud formation classifications (although it fascinates me) to insert them in specific pages either. -- ] 23:54, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

	== Cloud edges ==

	The NY Times this morning (July 20) had a Q&A about why clouds have edges: "Q. Why do droplets of water form defined clouds rather than dispersing evenly into the atmosphere?" This is a common and interesting question, which sparks thought if it's the first time you've wondered about it. The response is provided by Geoff Cornish, a Penn State meteorologist: "... Clusters of millions of cloud droplets form in the updrafts. Over a larger area, Mr. Cornish continued, air cannot move upward without compensating subsiding air. This results in the clearly defined edges seen in cumulus clouds. The bottoms of clouds are where the parcel of air becomes saturated, and the top is where the upward impulse dies out, he said." A statement along these lines would fit in nicely here, especially if it could be expanded somewhat. -- ] 16:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

	==High cloud heights==
	Both the Canadian MANOBS and say that high clouds can form lower in polar regions. ] 09:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

	== Cloud article names ==

	I suggest that the ] be changed to end with "cloud" so that they're consistent, with redirects from the previous names. -- ] 06:04, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

	== Cloud Identification ==

	I'm really at a loss here. I have my Field Guide for North American Weather out, but I'm still not sure. What kind of cloud does this look like to you?

	http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/7718/cirrostratusnebulosus7va.jpg

	I was thinking Cirrostratus nebulosus, it certainly resembles the picture they have, but it also resembles several other pictures, especially the altostratus pictures. The description for cirrostratus says "Uniform, generally featureless, thin to thick, white or light gray ice-crystal clouds" and the description for altostratus says "Thin or thick, gray to pale blue, mainly water-droplet clouds at middle levels." The picture kind of fits both of those. The clouds seem somewhat whispy, so I'm leaning towards cirrus, but I'd rather have someone more knowledgeable say for sure.

	] 21:34, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

	I just noticed your question. It's pretty hard to identify three dimensional clouds from a two dimensional picture. However, it looks as if there are at least two and maybe more cloud types in the picture. If you look at the cloud that is against the blue of the sky then I would say that it's Cirrus. The larger cloud mass above it (in the picture) may well be Cirrostratus but it woukld think that it's Altostratus. It appears to be lower in the sky than the centre Cirrus and looks a little too dark to be Cirrus. If you look at the bottom right just above the tree tops, there appears to be a third cloud. This could be a fractus of lower cloud or ACC forming. There's no way to judge the hight of it. ] ] 17:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

	== Nature claims 5 errors ==

	''Nature'' disputes the accuracy of this article; see http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051212/multimedia/438900a_m1.html and ]. We're hoping they will provide a list of the alleged errors soon. ] 01:53, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

	:So what! :P - ] 04:19, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

	:Nature is a highly respected scientific publication that's what!--] 22:22, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

	== Errors ID'd by Nature, to correct ==

	The results of what exactly ''Nature'' suggested should be corrected is out... italicize each bullet point once you make the correction. -- ]

	* Under 'Cloud formation and properties', cloud formation happens when air is cooled below its saturation point, not to its saturation point.
	* Under 'Cloud formation and properties': 'The air stays the same temperature but absorbs more water vapour into it until it reaches saturation'. No. Droplet or ice particle formation requires supersaturation. Water vapour can only be added to bring the air to saturation.
	* Omission: Cloud can however be formed by the mixing of two subsaturated air masses. Examples of this are “breath” condensation on a cold day, arctic sea-smoke and aircraft contrail formation.
	* 'This method of raindrop production … typically produces smaller raindrops and drizzle'. Tradewind and tropical cumulus clouds are capable of producing drops of several millimetres in diameter.
	* Under 'clouds in family A': A contrail is a long thin cloud which develops as the result of the passage of a jet airplane at high altitudes. (any type of aircraft is capable of forming a contrail – not just jets. They result when mixing of the engine exhaust which contains unsaturated water vapour mixes with the unsaturated environmental air to produce a mixture which becomes temporarily saturated).

	== Why do cloud droplets not display rainbows? ==

	When a cloud is composed of droplets, why don't they show as a ] when seen from the right direction? Are the droplets too small (compared to light wavelength)? I have a . (It was cold that day, almost freezing.) ] 09:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

	:I would say because the water droplets are too densely packed. For an ideal rainbow to form, each light ray must be refracted by one, and only one, water drop. If a lot of the light makes it through without hitting a water drop, then you will get a pale rainbow. If each light ray is refracted by multiple drops of water, the colors will be randomly distributed all over the sky, with the net effect being white (or black if there are so many droplets that they actually absorb the light). Notice that you don't see rainbows in the midst of a serious rainstorm, either. ] 12:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
	::I see. Only a thin layer on the sunny side of the cloud is exposed to direct parallell rays from the sun. That layer does form a rainbow, but because the layer is thin, the intensity of the rainbow is too low to be seen. ] 09:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

	::Wrong. It's because of diffraction, because the droplet size is too small. The best rainbows are caused by large raindrops, and as the raindrop size decreases, the colors blend together and numerous diffraction stripes appear within the curve of the rainbow. See --] 03:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

	:::Yes, without putting in numbers, it must be ], due to the small size of the drops. The drops can't be too densely packed or the cloud would fall. A rainbow is a ] effect involving ] and ]. Cloud particles are too small to be well described by geometric optics, as rain, and too large to be well described by ], as air. (Since liquid cloud droplets are nearly spherical, they are well described by the ]). There are colored rings around the sun due to thin clouds. This may be a diffraction effect, more like Raleigh scattering. ] 18:10, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

	== Colors of clouds ==

	I am not convinced that the explanation of dark clouds is correct. At best it is incomplete. ] 17:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

	== Some questions that the article could include ==

	Here are some questions that I feel the article could answer a little more explicitly:
	- Why is there a layer of clear air between a cloud and the ground?
	- Why do water clouds have very sharply defined edges?
	- Why are the bottoms of cumuliform clouds pretty flat and uniform, when the tops are lumpy?
	- Why is there liquid water in clouds that reside in air up to 30 degrees below freezing?
	Some of the answers are hinted at, others aren't answered at all, but I think all are good questions, worthy of an answer in this article. ] 11:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

	== Contrail dispute ==
	I don't think that ''contrail'' should be listed along with the naturally occuring cloud formations in this article. It is a form of ''pollution'', more akin to ''smog'' than to true clouds. — ] 02:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

	==Banner clouds==
	I came to know of banner clouds from ]. There is also a link to a photo of a banner cloud in the discussion there. But I couldn't get any info on a banner cloud in this article or a mention of it in ]. Is there a technical name by which banner clouds are known ? ] 08:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

	== Introduction ==

	This is the first paragraph of the introduction as of 11/09/2006:

	"A cloud is actually an assortment of dead jews this comes from WW2 times. Before this there were no clouds and afterwords clouds were there thanks to the burning dead jews.droplets jew tears or frozen crystals suspended in the atmosphere above the surface of the Earth or another planetary body. The branch of meteorology in which clouds are studied is nephology."

	I have no wiki experience, and I am not an expert nephologist by any means but this definition is ridiculous. If someone who has a greater scientific knowledge than myself has the time to offer a founded, definition for a cloud (or revert the vandalism) I think the article would be better for it. ]

	== Rename this article to Nephology? ==

	Hi. Since this article is studying clouds, would it seem reasonable to rename this article to Nephology, with Cloud redirecting to it? Or perhaps rename the cloud disambiguation page to Cloud which would then include a link to Nephology? --] 23:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
	*I think this is not a great idea. Virtually all the people who want to find out about clouds will search for "cloud". I see no point in making this a redirect. I would suggest that rather some mention be made in the article that the study of clouds is called nephology. ]] 23:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:08, 23 November 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cloud article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Cloud has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 25, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
January 14, 2015	Good article nominee	Not listed
March 26, 2017	Peer review	Reviewed
May 14, 2018	Good article nominee	Listed
Current status: Good article

This

level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Chemistry Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chemistry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of chemistry on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChemistryWikipedia:WikiProject ChemistryTemplate:WikiProject ChemistryChemistry
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Climate change Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Climate change, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Climate change on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Climate changeWikipedia:WikiProject Climate changeTemplate:WikiProject Climate changeClimate change
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
If you are looking for ways to improve this article, we recommend checking out our recommended sources and our style guide

Weather: General Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Weather, which collaborates on weather and related subjects on Misplaced Pages. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details.

WeatherWikipedia:WikiProject WeatherTemplate:WikiProject WeatherWeather

Top

This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is supported by the General meteorology task force (assessed as Top-importance).

Some thoughts on clouds: Altocumulus Cas. & Altocumulus of a Chaotic Sky

Cloud identification began and was fulfilled within the ranges of the Temperate climate zone. Not surprisingly, "weather" is at home within this region! Having worked in the Sub-Tropical/Arid climate zone for the past 60 years, it does seem that there a additions/modifications/adaptations which need to be made to adapt to the types seen in these skies in close relation to weather events. Both Ac Cas: Ac 8 and Ac 9 are described in the various cloud atlases with reference to there being a link to air of a tropical source, but from observation within that tropical source. some enlargement would seem appropriate. Clearly, these cloud types are indicative of considerable turbulence in their cloud height above ground range. What I have seen is that Ac 9, in particular, is able to "go beserk" and create a cumulonimbus development which, once formed, adds to its mass as cloud gathers beneath the initial base, merging with it quite quickly, while cloud top expands vertically quickly topping out at typical cumulonimbus top levels. The thundery identity is now active. The base is perhaps some 10 to 12000 feet above surface. My query is about cloud identity. Is this now Cb9 in its low cloud identity? While co-existing with other Ac9 patches across the sky. The point is that the variations between Temperate and Sub-Tropical clouds are not always identified and clarified for various users

improving intro

Currently it says: "Terrestrial cloud formation is the result of air in any of the lower three principal layers of Earth's atmosphere (collectively known as the homosphere) becoming saturated due to either or both of two processes: cooling of the air and adding water vapor."

What does "adding water vapour" mean? Adding it to what and who does the adding?! Suggestion :

Clouds are formed by the saturation of air in the homosphere. This saturation occurs due to the cooling of the air or/and its contact with water vapor.

Pending edit

Why is my Oct. 31 edit not automatically accepted? I thought auto-confirmed users were supposed to be exempt from any extra anti-vandalism protections put on the article. I'm the one who did the most to get this article its GA rating. ~~ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 (talk) 10:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Huh, that's very strange. I'm not sure what's going on that's causing that. I've accepted the edit. —Tom Morris (talk) 10:43, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

in approximate ascending order of convective activity

What on earth does that mean? That's definitely not going to be understandable by a lay-reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.36.12 (talk) 12:12, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry it's taken awhile to see your comments. The sentence you're partly quoting includes an inline link too the Misplaced Pages article "Convection" which I think adequately explains about that subject, but that's just my opinion. Do you think some readers might also have trouble understanding the reference to "ascending order of" and/or "convective activity" after checking out the linked article? If so, I guess I could just delete that sentence and let the text that follows speak for itself. I think those who understand sufficiently will see the forms are described in ascending order of instability and convective activity, and for those to don't notice that, maybe it doesn't really matter if it's not brought to their attention. Do you think just removing the sentence is the best solution?~~ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 (talk) 11:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion for lead

Perhaps it would be a good idea to add the importance to climate change and relegate some naming details.Chidgk1 (talk) 14:54, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Sorry it's taken awhile to see your comments. I like your suggestion so I'll see what I can come up with.~~ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 (talk) 12:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Tabular overview citations

Re this section + table: "The tabular overview that follows is very broad in scope. It draws from several methods of cloud classification, both formal and informal, used in different levels of the Earth's homosphere by a number of cited authorities."

I believe this needs citations added to: - "several methods of cloud classification" (which methods? Without references we don't know where to look for further information, or if the methods are legitimate) and -"a number of cited authorities" (They are not cited in this passage so we don't know which of the citations in the article as a whole are relevant. And without saying who these authorities are, we don't know if they are legitimate either)

Unfortunately I think this will be down to the original author of the table to resolve, as other editors won't know the sources that were used to draw this table together. We also don't know if this table would be an acceptable to experts in the field as it seems to be the creation of the writer. 4jbptero (talk) 23:39, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm more confused on the purpose of the table right in the lead. I understand the article is going to be broad but that info should at least be below the lead. That table has to be an issue with mobile devices. – The Grid (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

The lead and the table were combined a few years ago when both were short enough to appear together and seemed complimentary enough to fulfill a similar purpose, namely to provide a broad overview to a broad subject. However, both components have grown to the extent that they are now probably too large to be kept together, so I've separated the two and and placed the table just below the toc so the lead and the table are still close enough together to carry out their complimentary functions.ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 (talk) 05:20, 04 March 2021 (UTC)ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 (talk) 05:21, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Record cold

Record-Low Cloud Temperatures Associated With a Tropical Deep Convective Event "In this study, we describe clustered storm overshoots in the tropical West Pacific on December 29, 2018 that resulted in the Visible Infrared Imaging Radiometer Suite (VIIRS) aboard NOAA-20 measuring a temperature of 161.96K (-111.2°C), which is, to our knowledge, the coldest on record." I checked cumulonimbus cloud and it doesn't seem like there's a place for that there, but perhaps it can go here or in another subarticle. Or maybe it's just trivia. Mapsax (talk) 02:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Adding moisture to the air

As of 2021-07-11, the section on "Adding moisture to the air" does NOT include the word evaporation.

I read, "Several main sources of water vapor can be added to the air as a way of achieving saturation without any cooling process: water or moist ground, precipitation or virga, and transpiration from plants".

I'm changing this to read, "Several main sources of water vapor can be added to the air as a way of achieving saturation without any cooling process: Evaporation from surface water or moist ground, precipitation or virga, and transpiration from plants."

If this is NOT correct, I trust someone will correct me.

NICE TO HAVE: Might anyone have a table giving rough percentages of moisture from different sources? Clearly from oceans and lakes, evaporation from the exposed surface would be 100 percent of the moisture. Virga is retaining water in the atmosphere -- evaporating or sublimating before it reaches the surface. Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 04:22, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I would also like to see some numbers about what percentage (by mass or volume) of cloud air is water particles? CO₂ at 400ppm reflects dangerous amounts of infrared. How does that compare to clouds percentage of water particles or vapor? OsamaBinLogin (talk) 22:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

"Angkulye" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Angkulye. The discussion will occur at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 26#Angkulye until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Certes (talk) 17:05, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Maybe someone would like to try to get this article featured

Rollcloud or anyone else interested,

I noticed this article when looking through the "good" articles related to the climate change project: this looks very good and could perhaps be improved to "featured". I have to admit I gave up in frustration with my only attempt at getting an article featured so I am not going to try myself. But I see you have been doing great work keeping Cirrus cloud featured, and ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 is an expert on this very important subject, so maybe you might consider Misplaced Pages:Featured article criteria Chidgk1 (talk) 07:27, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Categories: