Talk:Mark Walters: Difference between revisions

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			{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=Start\|blp=yes\|listas=Walters, Mark\|
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			==Sources==
	You have added sources to the article. The first and third sources you mention do not state anything of the kind which would support your statement. If you think that they do, please quote the text here. The second source you have provided is a an email from a Rangers fan to the letters page of the Guardian. That is not a verifiable source of primary information, and cannot be used in Misplaced Pages. --] 11:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)		You have added sources to the article. The first and third sources you mention do not state anything of the kind which would support your statement. If you think that they do, please quote the text here. The second source you have provided is a an email from a Rangers fan to the letters page of the Guardian. That is not a verifiable source of primary information, and cannot be used in Misplaced Pages. --] 11:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

	This article seems to focus far more on the racist incident at Celtic Park than it does on Mark Walters himself and his soccer/football career. I think it is obvious that this is a case of point-scoring between rival fans, so I'm going to cut down on the extensive quoting, etc. --]		This article seems to focus far more on the racist incident at Celtic Park than it does on Mark Walters himself and his soccer/football career. I think it is obvious that this is a case of point-scoring between rival fans, so I'm going to cut down on the extensive quoting, etc. --]

	There is nothing "point scoring" about it, and in removing nearly all of the information regarding the incident you also removed citations. <span style="font-family:Georgia"><~~font~~ style="background:#0000FF;">''']''' </~~font~~></span> 17:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		There is nothing "point scoring" about it, and in removing nearly all of the information regarding the incident you also removed citations. <span style="font-family:Georgia"><span style="background:#0000FF;">''']''' </span></span> 17:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

	:Your edits have somewhat shrunk the article - I think there remains a place for the content you removed although it should be a smaller part of a summary of his whole career. ] 17:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		:Your edits have somewhat shrunk the article - I think there remains a place for the content you removed although it should be a smaller part of a summary of his whole career. ] 17:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

	Archibald99, you wouldn't be a Rangers fan by any chance would you? Myself, I am Australian an have no special bias towards either Celtic or Rangers ] 17:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		Archibald99, you wouldn't be a Rangers fan by any chance would you? Myself, I am Australian an have no special bias towards either Celtic or Rangers ] 17:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

			- I'm guessing by the red and blue colours that Archibald may be a Rangers fan, and 'TheMadTim' a Celtic fan (Tim is nickname of celtic fans) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	By contrast, look at this article on Dianbobo Balde (http://en.wikipedia.org/Bobo_Balde) an African who plays for Celtic FC who has at various stages of his career been subjected to "monkey noises" from Rangers FC fans. The mention of these incidents only take up a couple of sentences of a very lengthy article - whereas here we have a lengthy, non-sequitur quotation from a person who doesn't appear to have any special relevance to Mark Walters other than being one of the many in attendance that day. I'm sure Mark Walters would not appreciate the fact that according to Misplaced Pages his career is only noteworthy on account of being a victim of racism. ] 18:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		By contrast, look at this article on Dianbobo Balde (http://en.wikipedia.org/Bobo_Balde) an African who plays for Celtic FC who has at various stages of his career been subjected to "monkey noises" from Rangers FC fans. The mention of these incidents only take up a couple of sentences of a very lengthy article - whereas here we have a lengthy, non-sequitur quotation from a person who doesn't appear to have any special relevance to Mark Walters other than being one of the many in attendance that day. I'm sure Mark Walters would not appreciate the fact that according to Misplaced Pages his career is only noteworthy on account of being a victim of racism. ] 18:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

	Well the rest of the article can be lengthened rather than deleting sourced material to make it shorter. <span style="font-family:Georgia"><~~font~~ style="background:#0000FF;">''']''' </~~font~~></span> 18:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		Well the rest of the article can be lengthened rather than deleting sourced material to make it shorter. <span style="font-family:Georgia"><span style="background:#0000FF;">''']''' </span></span> 18:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

	Also, the sentence "It would be more accurate to say Walters was the first significant black player in Scottish football since Andrew Watson of Queens Park in the 19th century" seems debatable. Giles 'Gil' Heron (father of poet and musician Gil Scott-Heron) arrived amid much fanfare to play for Celtic FC in 1949, scoring in his debut, but to only play 3 senior games for the club before joining Third Lanark.		Also, the sentence "It would be more accurate to say Walters was the first significant black player in Scottish football since Andrew Watson of Queens Park in the 19th century" seems debatable. Giles 'Gil' Heron (father of poet and musician Gil Scott-Heron) arrived amid much fanfare to play for Celtic FC in 1949, scoring in his debut, but to only play 3 senior games for the club before joining Third Lanark.
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	The article also mentions Mohammed Latif, who of course, was and is not "black" by anyone's standards. Again, I don't see what relevance this has to Mark Walters. ] 18:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		The article also mentions Mohammed Latif, who of course, was and is not "black" by anyone's standards. Again, I don't see what relevance this has to Mark Walters. ] 18:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

	That section could arguably do with shortening, but that has nothing do with the source you deleted, again. <span style="font-family:Georgia"><~~font~~ style="background:#0000FF;">''']''' </~~font~~></span> 18:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)		That section could arguably do with shortening, but that has nothing do with the source you deleted, again. <span style="font-family:Georgia"><span style="background:#0000FF;">''']''' </span></span> 18:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

			Source has been retained after this edit. Photograph added. ] 18:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

			Mark Walters - additional information...

			Mark 'Everton' Walters had a 100% record from the penalty spot for Liverpool scoring 6 out of 6 in his time at Anfield. He also had a much overused step over, but will always be remembered fondly for that game against Auxerre. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:24, 19 March 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			Source 9 - for the statement 'Walters himself later stated that his worst experience in Scotland was at Heart of Midlothian's Tynecastle, where the abuse was compounded by object-throwing' - is not active, and it is not entirely accurate to the best of my knowledge. Althouygh the media is biased in footage it is a clear difference between celtic park (where they stopped the game to clear fruit) and tynecastle, where one banana hit mr walters. Both incidents are appalling, but this page appears to be justifying one by comparison. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== Who writes this stuff? ==


			Please take a little time to read this section. I have since edited it but I feel the original should be preserved as an example of how not to write sentences.

			"Although very few black players had ever played in Scotland (Queens Park and Hearts being the only Scottish clubs to ever have had a black player, and that was in the 19th century) Not to mention Gil Heron who played for Celtic in 1951. Walters signed for ] to become the first black player to sign for Rangers since ] (only the second black player to play in Britain) arranged to sign for Rangers in 1914. Unfortunately, Tull never got to actually play in Scotland, as he was killed during the First World War before he could actually sign." ] (]) 18:42, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==

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			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 15:59, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

			== Honorary members of the Rangers Supporters Trust statement ==

			In the "Retirement" section of the article it says that Mark Walters is "one of three honorary members of the Rangers Supporters Trust, along with ] and ]". The source for this seems to be several years old (and a dead link) and this information must be out-of-date as Johnny Hubbard passed away in 2018 and Billy Simpson died at the start of 2017. Perhaps someone with access to more up-to-date information can amend this.] (]) 19:55, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

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Sources

You have added sources to the article. The first and third sources you mention do not state anything of the kind which would support your statement. If you think that they do, please quote the text here. The second source you have provided is a an email from a Rangers fan to the letters page of the Guardian. That is not a verifiable source of primary information, and cannot be used in Misplaced Pages. --TheMadTim 11:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

This article seems to focus far more on the racist incident at Celtic Park than it does on Mark Walters himself and his soccer/football career. I think it is obvious that this is a case of point-scoring between rival fans, so I'm going to cut down on the extensive quoting, etc. --ledenierhomme

There is nothing "point scoring" about it, and in removing nearly all of the information regarding the incident you also removed citations. Archibald99 17:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Your edits have somewhat shrunk the article - I think there remains a place for the content you removed although it should be a smaller part of a summary of his whole career. Daemonic Kangaroo 17:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Archibald99, you wouldn't be a Rangers fan by any chance would you? Myself, I am Australian an have no special bias towards either Celtic or Rangers Ledenierhomme 17:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

- I'm guessing by the red and blue colours that Archibald may be a Rangers fan, and 'TheMadTim' a Celtic fan (Tim is nickname of celtic fans)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.225.105 (talk) 22:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

By contrast, look at this article on Dianbobo Balde (http://en.wikipedia.org/Bobo_Balde) an African who plays for Celtic FC who has at various stages of his career been subjected to "monkey noises" from Rangers FC fans. The mention of these incidents only take up a couple of sentences of a very lengthy article - whereas here we have a lengthy, non-sequitur quotation from a person who doesn't appear to have any special relevance to Mark Walters other than being one of the many in attendance that day. I'm sure Mark Walters would not appreciate the fact that according to Misplaced Pages his career is only noteworthy on account of being a victim of racism. Ledenierhomme 18:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Well the rest of the article can be lengthened rather than deleting sourced material to make it shorter. Archibald99 18:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, the sentence "It would be more accurate to say Walters was the first significant black player in Scottish football since Andrew Watson of Queens Park in the 19th century" seems debatable. Giles 'Gil' Heron (father of poet and musician Gil Scott-Heron) arrived amid much fanfare to play for Celtic FC in 1949, scoring in his debut, but to only play 3 senior games for the club before joining Third Lanark.

The article also mentions Mohammed Latif, who of course, was and is not "black" by anyone's standards. Again, I don't see what relevance this has to Mark Walters. Ledenierhomme 18:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

That section could arguably do with shortening, but that has nothing do with the source you deleted, again. Archibald99 18:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Source has been retained after this edit. Photograph added. Ledenierhomme 18:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Mark Walters - additional information...

Mark 'Everton' Walters had a 100% record from the penalty spot for Liverpool scoring 6 out of 6 in his time at Anfield. He also had a much overused step over, but will always be remembered fondly for that game against Auxerre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.155.63 (talk) 19:24, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Source 9 - for the statement 'Walters himself later stated that his worst experience in Scotland was at Heart of Midlothian's Tynecastle, where the abuse was compounded by object-throwing' - is not active, and it is not entirely accurate to the best of my knowledge. Althouygh the media is biased in footage it is a clear difference between celtic park (where they stopped the game to clear fruit) and tynecastle, where one banana hit mr walters. Both incidents are appalling, but this page appears to be justifying one by comparison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.225.105 (talk) 01:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Who writes this stuff?

Please take a little time to read this section. I have since edited it but I feel the original should be preserved as an example of how not to write sentences.

"Although very few black players had ever played in Scotland (Queens Park and Hearts being the only Scottish clubs to ever have had a black player, and that was in the 19th century) Not to mention Gil Heron who played for Celtic in 1951. Walters signed for Rangers to become the first black player to sign for Rangers since Walter Tull (only the second black player to play in Britain) arranged to sign for Rangers in 1914. Unfortunately, Tull never got to actually play in Scotland, as he was killed during the First World War before he could actually sign." Milzo1986 (talk) 18:42, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927124536/http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=48 to http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=48

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Honorary members of the Rangers Supporters Trust statement

In the "Retirement" section of the article it says that Mark Walters is "one of three honorary members of the Rangers Supporters Trust, along with Johnny Hubbard and Billy Simpson". The source for this seems to be several years old (and a dead link) and this information must be out-of-date as Johnny Hubbard passed away in 2018 and Billy Simpson died at the start of 2017. Perhaps someone with access to more up-to-date information can amend this.Dunarc (talk) 19:55, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

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