Revision as of 02:03, 16 December 2022 editSangdeboeuf (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users53,206 edits →top: {{Refideas}} +1← Previous edit |
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{{Not a forum|antifeminism, feminism, antifeminists or feminists}} |
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{{Not a forum|antifeminism, feminism, antifeminists or feminists}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1= |
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{{WikiProject Gender Studies|class=B}} |
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{{WikiProject Gender studies|class=|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Feminism|class=C|importance=Mid}} |
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{{Refideas |
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| {{cite book |editor1-last=Ging |editor1-first=Debbie |editor2-last=Siapera |editor2-first=Eugenia |title=Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism |date=2019 |publisher=Palgrave Macmillan |location=Cham, Switzerland |isbn=978-3-319-96226-9 |doi=10.1007/978-3-319-96226-9}} |
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| {{cite book |editor1-last=Ging |editor1-first=Debbie |editor2-last=Siapera |editor2-first=Eugenia |title=Gender Hate Online: Understanding the New Anti-Feminism |date=2019 |publisher=Palgrave Macmillan |location=Cham |isbn=978-3-319-96226-9 |doi=10.1007/978-3-319-96226-9 |url=https://link-springer-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/book/10.1007/978-3-319-96226-9 |url-access=registration |via=]}} |
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| {{cite book |last1=O’Donnell |first1=Jessica |title=Gamergate and Anti-Feminism in the Digital Age |date=2022 |publisher=Palgrave Macmillan |location=Cham |isbn=978-3-031-14057-0 |pages=109–138 |doi=10.1007/978-3-031-14057-0_4 |chapter=The Militaristic Discourse of Anti-feminism |chapter-url=https://link-springer-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-14057-0_4 |chapter-url-access=registration |via=]}} |
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| {{cite book |last1=Ribieras |first1=Amélie |editor1-last=Carian |editor1-first=Emily K. |editor2-last=DiBranco |editor2-first=Alex |editor3-last=Ebin |editor3-first=Chelsea |title=Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right |date=2022 |publisher=Routledge |location=Abingdon, England |isbn=978-1-0005-7622-1 |doi=10.4324/9781003164722 |chapter='I Want to Thank My Husband Fred for Letting Me Come Here,' or Phyllis Schlafly's Opportunistic Defense of Gender Hierarchy}} |
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| {{cite book |last1=Ribieras |first1=Amélie |editor1-last=Carian |editor1-first=Emily K. |editor2-last=DiBranco |editor2-first=Alex |editor3-last=Ebin |editor3-first=Chelsea |title=Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right |series=Routledge Studies in Fascism and the Far Right |date=2022 <!--|edition=1st--> |publisher=Routledge |location=London |isbn=978-1-0005-7622-1 |pages=67–93 |doi=10.4324/9781003164722 |chapter='I Want to Thank My Husband Fred for Letting Me Come Here,' or Phyllis Schlafly's Opportunistic Defense of Gender Hierarchy}} |
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== Excessive United States perspective == |
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== One editor's opinion == |
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{{Cot|one editor's perspective, but nothing to improve the article}} |
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This article reads like a hit-piece which seeks to criticize and invalidate views and perspectives the author does not agree with. |
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I've just removed several references to US antifeminism for UNDUE. Looking through this article, I think it definitely skews to a US-centric perspective, although feminism is a global issue. <span style="color:#ef5224">]</span> (]) 12:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Feminism is chiefly a left-wing ideology that is disputed and contested by almost all conservative thinkers, and by large portions of the non white, English speaking world. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:48, 10 March 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Thank you for coming to the Talk page. You are wrong btw, it isn't a hit piece, and it isn't a left wing ideology. You need to have pretty strong sources to say something like that. -] ] 16:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC) |
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::Why are you thanking me? Who are you? And feminism forms the core of most left-wing thought, and is widely disputed by both conservatives and Christians alike. ] (]) 16:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:::I'm Roxy the dog, it says so at the end of all my comments on talk pages like this >>>>>> -] ] 17:07, 10 March 2022 (UTC) |
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{{Cob}} |
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== Men's rights movement == |
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== In the mid and late 20th century antifeminists often opposed the right to abortion == |
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This has been inserted and removed and re-inserted in the lead; it probably ''should'' be covered in the article body, if only in a summary-style section linking to ], but it currently isn't. It'd be easy enough to cover - just a little bit summarizing ], with a toplink to that article. But where should it be placed in this article's structure? As a top-level subsection? Or does it fit into one of the existing subsections? -- ] (]) 21:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Are they really antifeminists in general, sounds more like Christian groups and I think most reliable sources would back that up. |
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:The men's rights movement was placed in the 21st century section so it is in the body, although I'm also not sure exactly where it should go because it originated in the 20th century. —<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">]</span> ] 22:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Antifeminists were more opposed to things like no-fault divorce, child-support, false accusations, family courts, depiction of men in the media, etc. |
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::Well, we could always move it to the 20th century. If we did that we might add a sentence about how it started in the 70's as a generally pro-feminist men's liberation movement and then split into pro- and anti-feminist strands (which is covered in the history section of its own article.) --] (]) 03:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Yep that sounds like a good idea. —<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">]</span> ] 05:24, 12 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Feminism infobox == |
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Pretty strange those things aren't mentioned in the introduction, huh? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: None of this offers any justification for your ] behaviour. Don't do that. ] (]) 18:32, 10 March 2022 (UTC) |
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In the feminism infobox in this article, in the sub-section "Opposition to feminism", I believe the "Pro-feminism" and "Protofeminism" do not belong there. Those are clearly pro feminist topics and not about opposition to the movement. I would edit it myself, but wanted to check first here if I'm missing something. I also don't know how to edit the infobox! It somehow appears fully empty for me. ] (]) 15:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Do you think the definition is correct? == |
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:I believe that "Opposition to feminism" is bolded not because it is a section header but because it redirects to Antifeminism. Compare to the infobox on <nowiki>]</nowiki> ] ] 17:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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''Antifeminism, also spelled anti-feminism, is opposition to some or all forms of feminism.'' Sounds like feminists are antifeminists because, e.g. TERFs are in opposition to TIFs, radical and marxist feminists are in opposition to liberal feminists.--] (]) 14:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Reprarina}} I think a major difference between antifeminists and those feminists you mentioned is that antifeminists do '''NOT''' consider themselves feminists. What do you say to this, {{ping|Roxy the dog}}? ] (]) 23:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC) |
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::So, it's the non-feminist opposition to some or all forms of feminism? sounds more correct... ] (]) 23:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC) |
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::I say, "Why ask me?" - ] ] 00:22, 9 July 2022 (UTC) |
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::Yes, the current definition of antifeminism in the lead is misleading IMO. The fact is that by that definition, various different factions/branches of feminism would be antifeminist under the current definition in the lead which makes no sense. Radical feminist and sex-positive feminists appose each other, same with Radical and liberal feminists, TERFs and TIFS (as you said) and so forth. What the central issue here is that there is a lack of agreement of what qualifies as feminism and thus what qualifies as anti-feminism. Whether rejecting some forms of feminism is antifeminist is dependent on what you believe is a "true feminist" and what is not. This of course if the ] in play. Thus whether people who endorse some forms or tenants of feminists but not others are antifeminists is debatable and WP should not take sides in that debate. Maybe we should rewrite the lead to say something like "Antifeminism, also spelled anti-feminism, is the opposition to feminism as a whole or just, as some would argue, to certain forms of feminism.". Then we should then, in the main body of the article, better describe the debate between different feminist strains/branches as to what qualifies as antifeminist since I don't believe a consensus currently exists as to the proper definition, even within feminism itself. --] (]) 01:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC) |
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I've just removed several references to US antifeminism for UNDUE. Looking through this article, I think it definitely skews to a US-centric perspective, although feminism is a global issue. BrigadierG (talk) 12:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
In the feminism infobox in this article, in the sub-section "Opposition to feminism", I believe the "Pro-feminism" and "Protofeminism" do not belong there. Those are clearly pro feminist topics and not about opposition to the movement. I would edit it myself, but wanted to check first here if I'm missing something. I also don't know how to edit the infobox! It somehow appears fully empty for me. DuxCoverture (talk) 15:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)