| Revision as of 14:18, 19 December 2022 editKen Gallager (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers197,210 edits signing← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 15:53, 10 July 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk | contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,012,473 editsm Removed deprecated parameters in {{Talk header}} that are now handled automatically (Task 30)Tag: paws [2.2] |
| (16 intermediate revisions by 11 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
{{Skip to talk}} |
|
{{Skip to talk}} |
|
{{Talk header|archive_age=60|archive_bot=Lowercase sigmabot III}} |
|
{{Talk header}} |
|
{{Vital article|level=4|topic=People|class=B}} |
|
|
{{Round in circles|search=yes}} |
|
{{Round in circles|search=yes}} |
|
⚫ |
{{On this day|date1=2017-05-06|oldid1=778942020|date2=2022-05-06|oldid2=1086233992|date3=2023-05-06|oldid3=1153432010|date4=2024-05-06|oldid4=1171075261}} |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|1= |
|
|
{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=B|s&a-work-group=yes|s&a-priority= |core=yes|listas=Thoreau, Henry David}} |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Thoreau, Henry David|1= |
|
|
{{WikiProject Biography|s&a-work-group=yes|s&a-priority= |core=yes}} |
|
{{WP1.0|class=B|v0.5=pass|category=Philrelig}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Philosophy|importance=mid|class=B|philosopher=yes|social=yes|modern=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Philosophy|importance=mid|philosopher=yes|social=yes|modern=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject United States|class=B|importance=low|Cape-Cod=yes|Cape-Cod-importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject United States|importance=low|Cape-Cod=yes|Cape-Cod-importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Politics|class=B|importance=Mid|libertarianism=yes|libertarianism-importance=low|American=yes|American-importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=Mid|libertarianism=yes|libertarianism-importance=low|American=yes|American-importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Religion|class=B|UnitarianUniversalism=yes|UnitarianUniversalismImp=top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Religion|importance=Low|UnitarianUniversalism=yes|UnitarianUniversalismImp=top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Anarchism|class=B|importance=high}} |
|
{{WikiProject Anarchism}} |
|
⚫ |
}} |
|
⚫ |
{{Press |
|
⚫ |
| author = Jessamyn West |
|
⚫ |
| date = 2015-04-13 |
|
⚫ |
| url = https://medium.com/message/how-to-lie-with-wikipedia-129b92e55ac |
|
⚫ |
| title = How to (try to) Lie With Misplaced Pages. The manufactured history of neckbeard-shaming |
|
⚫ |
| org = Medium |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
| Line 19: |
Line 25: |
|
|algo = old(60d) |
|
|algo = old(60d) |
|
|archive = Talk:Henry David Thoreau/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|archive = Talk:Henry David Thoreau/Archive %(counter)d |
| ⚫ |
}} |
|
| ⚫ |
{{Press |
|
| ⚫ |
| author = Jessamyn West |
|
| ⚫ |
| date = 2015-04-13 |
|
| ⚫ |
| url = https://medium.com/message/how-to-lie-with-wikipedia-129b92e55ac |
|
| ⚫ |
| title = How to (try to) Lie With Misplaced Pages. The manufactured history of neckbeard-shaming |
|
| ⚫ |
| org = Medium |
|
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{clear}} |
|
{{clear}} |
| ⚫ |
{{OnThisDay|date1=2017-05-06|oldid1=778942020|date2=2022-05-06|oldid2=1086233992}} |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== The Thoreau family and the Sewall family == |
|
== The Thoreau family and the Sewall family == |
| Line 39: |
Line 37: |
|
The "Sexuality" section of this article should say more about Thoreau's relationships with women. Until I fixed it myself, it did not even mention his proposal of marriage to Edmund's sister. It still doesn't mention his . ] who took walks in the woods with Thoreau when she was a teenager, modeled romantic heroes in several of her books on Thoreau, although there's no evidence he returned her feelings at all. Here's to an NPOV and accurate-as-we-can-make it "Sexuality" section. ] (]) 19:11, 22 December 2021 (UTC) |
|
The "Sexuality" section of this article should say more about Thoreau's relationships with women. Until I fixed it myself, it did not even mention his proposal of marriage to Edmund's sister. It still doesn't mention his . ] who took walks in the woods with Thoreau when she was a teenager, modeled romantic heroes in several of her books on Thoreau, although there's no evidence he returned her feelings at all. Here's to an NPOV and accurate-as-we-can-make it "Sexuality" section. ] (]) 19:11, 22 December 2021 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
:Yes! The lack of evidence for the claims and selective presentation is weird to me. It’s like someone is trying to intentionally create a narrative about him. Is there a way to make it more reflective of what is known? His siblings didn’t marry either and I think it should be in the section too. ] (]) 05:37, 26 January 2024 (UTC) |
|
== Influence section needs a rewrite == |
|
|
Better organization could make it clearer. It makes little sense to include the current laundry list of "influencees," most with no RS supporting their inclusion. |
|
|
|
|
|
Let's also break down the "influence," separating Thoreau's contemporaries from later generations. That seems more clear-cut than separating it into transcendentalism, nature writing, and political thought. What do others think? ] (]) 00:31, 27 December 2021 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Plumbago and electrotyping == |
|
== Call for discussion of "anarchist" claims about Thoreau == |
|
|
Its embarrassing that the intro paragraphs includes a witless and ignorant misreading of Thoreaus government is best that governs least... when I see that as "evidence" that he is an anarchist, I know without a doubt that anyone that believes that has NEVER READ A SINGLE BOOK OR ARTICLE BY THOREAU. And they have no right to edit his wiki page. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Later, Thoreau converted the pencil factory to produce plumbago, a name for graphite at the time, which was used in the electrotyping process." |
|
Thoreau's writing uses a lot of poetical devices like irony and provocation. He isn't writing a dry science book where he creates an equation of "zero government=best government" which is frankly an embarrassing and pathetic interpertation. It is a provocative way of saying that he doesn't believe in an invasive government that tries to run your life, that comes into your home and regulates how much water you use, etc. He believed in individuality and people coming to ethical decisions upon themselves, he was against group think, churches, and so on, telling people in an ideological sense of what to believe. That by no means he believes in a radical and really untenable position of literally no government. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Conrad article cited in support of this statement does not support it. The author places the Thoreaus' highly refined grinding process in the 1830's and electrotyping was not invented until the 1840's so that was not the motivation. Conrad does not give any evidence that the Thoreaus supplied graphite to anyone doing electrotyping. ] (]) 14:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC) |
|
When people mock wikipedia as an unreliable source, THIS is what they are talking about. Whoever keeps editing in he was an anarchist is an ideologically minded fool who is trying to appropriate popular historical figures to be on their side, and they cherry pick quotes that out of context can be intreated as such. That isn't how you read literature nor is it his meaning. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Libertarianism and anarchy banners too dominant == |
|
I'm deleting it. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask me. I studied Thoreau at university under one of the internationally leading experts on Thoreau. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:52, 28 March 2022 (UTC)</small> |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Banners for libertarianism and anarchism dominate the appearance of this article. Yet Thoreau was neither a libertarian nor an anarchist. |
|
: You clearly have a strong opinion about this, but that's not sufficient to justify deleting this material. Do you have any reliable citations to back up your claim that Thoreau was not trying to express genuine anarchist opinions, but was merely concerned about "an invasive government... that comes into your home and regulates how much water you use" when he wrote the following to lead off his most famous essay?: |
|
|
:: I heartily accept the motto, — “That government is best which governs least;” and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, — “That government is best which governs not at all;” and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. The objections which have been brought against a standing army, and they are many and weighty, and deserve to prevail, may also at last be brought against a standing government. |
|
|
: Also, please sign your comments here so we know whose opinions we're reading. —] (]) 04:10, 28 March 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And I just reverted a new effort to add yet another similar piece of promotionalism, a new anarchism footer. I do not believe these modern movements should get so much free advertising on the page of a writer who may have inspired them but whose ideas are not central to either cause. ] (]) 07:04, 13 June 2024 (UTC) |
|
:: I agree with the IP (who is not me) that the lead gives too great an emphasis to Thoreau's "anarchism." Thoreau's nature writing, his literary influence, his abolitionism, the political influence of his civil disobedience -- the lead treats all these briefly, in summary form, but his possible "anarchism" gets a whole paragraph, in final position to boot. Per MOS:LEAD "The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight." That lengthy quote, including Thoreau's disclaimer, should perhaps be in the body of the article, but not in the lead. I also question the appropriateness of the obtrusive "Libertarian" sidewalls near the top of the article. ] (]) 04:38, 28 March 2022 (UTC) |
|
It is weird synth for the article to describe the five days eleven-year-old Edmund Sewall stayed with Thoreau's family as five days of hiking for Sewall with HDT. In fact, young Sewall wrote his own extended account of his five days of exploring Concord with John Thoreau as well as with HDT--and his journal of those days can be read online.
The "Sexuality" section of this article should say more about Thoreau's relationships with women. Until I fixed it myself, it did not even mention his proposal of marriage to Edmund's sister. It still doesn't mention his proposal from Sophia Ford. Louisa May Alcott who took walks in the woods with Thoreau when she was a teenager, modeled romantic heroes in several of her books on Thoreau, although there's no evidence he returned her feelings at all. Here's to an NPOV and accurate-as-we-can-make it "Sexuality" section. HouseOfChange (talk) 19:11, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
"Later, Thoreau converted the pencil factory to produce plumbago, a name for graphite at the time, which was used in the electrotyping process."
The Conrad article cited in support of this statement does not support it. The author places the Thoreaus' highly refined grinding process in the 1830's and electrotyping was not invented until the 1840's so that was not the motivation. Conrad does not give any evidence that the Thoreaus supplied graphite to anyone doing electrotyping. Tpmpmurphy (talk) 14:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Banners for libertarianism and anarchism dominate the appearance of this article. Yet Thoreau was neither a libertarian nor an anarchist.
And I just reverted a new effort to add yet another similar piece of promotionalism, a new anarchism footer. I do not believe these modern movements should get so much free advertising on the page of a writer who may have inspired them but whose ideas are not central to either cause. HouseOfChange (talk) 07:04, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
