| Revision as of 12:32, 12 November 2023 editBoud (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,408 edits →RfC initial statement: insert the adjective 'non-mainspace' to clarify that our current advocacy for Google is not literally mainspace advocacy as discussed in the essay← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 23:20, 24 November 2023 edit undoBoud (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,408 edits →RfC initial statement: avoid accidental interpretation as an RfC that's already live | ||
| (22 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| Please freely edit the draft RfC below. The suggested categories are ''policy'' - although not strictly policy, the question is fundamentally related to our mission, so people interested in policy are likely to be interested in this RfC; and ''tech'' - because tech knowledge and editing rights are needed changing both the ''Module'' and the ''Template''. | |||
| Please freely edit the draft RfC below. This was {{diff|Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)|prev|1184471418|initially proposed with a statement}} and {{diff|Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)|prev|1184471653|proposed structure}}, but several people felt that (i) being neutral with respect to our mission was not neutral in the sense of an RfC statement and that (ii) the structure was either (a) too complex or (b) not sufficiently prepared, given the complexity of the question and the aim of achieving consensus on {{diff|Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)|prev|984391577|{{tq|concrete, actionable}}}} edits. | |||
| To avoid confusion, please do your edits, with edit descriptions, directly in the three second-level header sections below. Discussion should mainly go on ]. | |||
| Signatures should not normally go on this page - make useful edit descriptions and discuss on ]. Whoever posts the initial statement and the post-statement structure in the RfC itself will give his/her signature at that time, over at ]. This lead is not part of the RfC draft. | |||
| Hints for example formatting: | |||
| * ] | |||
| == RfC initial statement == | == RfC initial statement == | ||
| ⚫ | {{tlx|rfc|policy|tech}} | ||
| ] currently contains non-] ] for Google/Alphabet Inc, one of the world's most powerful and monopolistic, ] that of to try to maintain a monopoly with its ]. This advocacy is contrary to our mission. Moreover, this advocacy violates the spirit of the ] in the sense that it encourages Wikipedians to ], and in some cases puts us ]. What editorial changes should we make in the module to reduce the level of advocacy, without favouring one particular attempted monopoly and without harming Wikipedians' privacy rights, while helping readers find reliable, independent sources using ] search engines? | |||
| The {{t|Find general sources}} template produces this list of search options: {{tq|"{{find sources}}"}}. Should we change the items in the list? If yes, then what changes should be made? <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> | |||
| == RfC Categories == | |||
| ⚫ | |||
| * policy - not strictly policy, but fundamentally related to our mission, so people interested in policy are likely to be interested in this RfC | |||
| * tech - because tech knowledge and editing rights are needed for the ''Module'' and the ''Template'' | |||
| == RfC initial post-statement proposed structure == | |||
| * '''Proposed discussion structure:''' Please add ''Support'' or ''Oppose'' and arguments for or against the following specific proposals in the '''sections''' below, or add additional proposals, so that someone uninvolved can summarise the consensus after a reasonable period of debate. | |||
| # tech step 1: '''Add missing engines''' to the list of available search engines at ], for engines that catalogue high numbers of pages, according to ], or are notable scholarly search engines: | |||
| ## Add ] | |||
| ## Add ] | |||
| ## Add ] | |||
| # tech step 2: '''Add some metasearch engines that respect privacy''' to the list of available search engines at ] | |||
| ## Add ] | |||
| ## Add 3-4 ] instances such as https://opnxng.com or https://searx.be or https://priv.au | |||
| # policy step 1: '''modify ] that defines the list of search engines at ] | |||
| ## Replace ''<nowiki>Find sources:</nowiki>'' by ''<nowiki>Use a ] (]) to find sources:</nowiki>'' (which renders as: ''Use a ] (]) to find sources:'') | |||
| ## remove the general link to Google and replace it by ''Startpage'', ''Qwant'' and/or ''Mojeek'' and/or | |||
| ## keep ''Google Books'' unless someone can propose a similar equivalent | |||
| ## replace ''Google News'' by a link to the ''Startpage'' or a Searx instance like ''Opnxng.com News'' link (''<nowiki>&categories=news</nowiki>'' | |||
| is needed in the URL) and/or | |||
| ## replace ''Google Scholar'' by ] and/or a Searx instance like the ''Openxng.com Science'' link (''<nowiki>&categories=science</nowiki>'') and/or ''Semantic Scholar'' and/or | |||
| ## (Other modifications) | |||
| # (Other) | |||
| ===tech step 1: Add missing engines=== | |||
| Add missing engines that catalogue high numbers of pages, according to ], or are notable scholarly search engines. The following should be added to the list of available search engines at ] (support/oppose NAME(s) or NUMBER(s) + evidence + reasons): | |||
| * 1.1 ] | |||
| * 1.2 ] | |||
| * 1.3 ] | |||
| * 1.4 (other) | |||
| '''' | |||
| ===tech step 2: Add some metasearch engines that respect privacy=== | |||
| The following should be added to the list of available search engines at ] (support/oppose NAME(s) or NUMBER(s) + evidence + reasons): | |||
| * 2.1 Add ] to the list of available search engines at ] | |||
| * 2.2 Add a ] instance such as https://Opnxng.com to the list of available search engines at ] | |||
| * 2.3 (other metasearch engines ) | |||
| '''' | |||
| ===policy step: Modifications to Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources=== | |||
| Modify ] that defines the list of search engines that is used in ] in the following ways (support/oppose + evidence + reasons). | |||
| '''' | |||
| ====3.1: Replace 'Find sources'==== | |||
| Replace ''<nowiki>Find sources:</nowiki>'' by ''<nowiki>Use a ] (]) to find sources:</nowiki>'' (which renders as: ''Use a ] (]) to find sources:'') | |||
| '''' | |||
| ====3.2: Replace the generic Google link==== | |||
| Remove the general link to Google and replace it by ''Startpage'', ''Qwant'' and/or ''Mojeek'' and/or . | |||
| '''' | |||
| ====3.3: Keep Google Books or propose alternative==== | |||
| Keep ''Google Books'' unless someone can propose a similar equivalent. | |||
| '''' | |||
| == Additional comments below first statement and timestamp == | |||
| ====3.4: Replace Google News==== | |||
| The ] lists search engines that are ''available'' for use in the {{t|Find general sources}} ''template''. The {{oldid|Template:Find_general_sources|1054037703|7 Nov 2021 version}} of the ''template'' is (links omitted) {{tq|Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL}}. If you answer "Yes", then proposals for changes to the list of links ''available in the module'' and/or to the default list of links in the ''template'' could help lead to rough consensus decisions. | |||
| Replace ''Google News'' by a link to the ''Startpage'' or ''Opnxng.com'' news link and/or . Startpage and Searx may need extra tech work since they don't display direct URLs to their ''news'' sections. | |||
| '''' | |||
| Changes (additions or removals) to the {{oldid|Module:Find_sources/links|1161280783|label=21 June 2023 list}} of '''links available in the module''' could include removing some engines or adding other engines from ] or ]. Changes (additions or removals) to the '''template''' could be made to the primary link (currently {{tq|Google}}) or to the more specific links such as {{tq|books}}, {{tq|news}}, {{tq|scholar}} (]). Reasons for adding or removing might include utility, reduction of bias, and/or privacy, within the constraints of the Misplaced Pages mission. | |||
| ====3.5: Replace Google Scholar==== | |||
| Replace ''Google Scholar'' by ] and/or ''Semantic Scholar'' and/or . | |||
| '''' | |||
| Previous suggestions of changes in related discussions include: ''{{diff|Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion|prev|1183974271|instead of specific engines}}'' link to ]; ''{{diff|Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for deletion|prev|1183963773|instead of Google Scholar}}'' link to ]; ''{{diff|User talk:Boud/sandbox/draft RfC Reduce advocacy in Find sources Module|prev|1184677464|add somewhere}}'' the source advice ]; ''{{diff|Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for deletion|prev|1184004952|instead of Google alone}}'' link to "Google or ]"; ''{{diff|User:Boud/sandbox/draft RfC Reduce advocacy in Find sources Module|prev|1184689465|instead of Google News}}'' link to ] news at , and/or . | |||
| ====3.6: Other modifications==== | |||
| Other changes to the current content of ] and its template form at ] could be proposed. However, for ''NYT vs AP'', please go to the orthogonal RfC at ]. | |||
| '''' | |||
| <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> | |||
| ===4 Other related changes=== | |||
| As an open-ended component of this RfC, feel free to add other (preferably concrete) proposals or 'see also' links. | |||
| * ''See also'': There is a recently opened, orthogonal discussion for advice ] on the issue of ]. | |||
Latest revision as of 23:20, 24 November 2023
Please freely edit the draft RfC below. The suggested categories are policy - although not strictly policy, the question is fundamentally related to our mission, so people interested in policy are likely to be interested in this RfC; and tech - because tech knowledge and editing rights are needed changing both the Module and the Template.
RfC initial statement
{{rfc|policy|tech}}
The {{Find general sources}} template produces this list of search options: "Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL"
. Should we change the items in the list? If yes, then what changes should be made? ~~~~
Additional comments below first statement and timestamp
The Find sources module lists search engines that are available for use in the {{Find general sources}} template. The 7 Nov 2021 version of the template is (links omitted) Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL
. If you answer "Yes", then proposals for changes to the list of links available in the module and/or to the default list of links in the template could help lead to rough consensus decisions.
Changes (additions or removals) to the 21 June 2023 list of links available in the module could include removing some engines or adding other engines from List of search engines or Comparison of web search engines. Changes (additions or removals) to the template could be made to the primary link (currently Google
) or to the more specific links such as books
, news
, scholar
(NYT vs AP is a separate RfC). Reasons for adding or removing might include utility, reduction of bias, and/or privacy, within the constraints of the Misplaced Pages mission.
Previous suggestions of changes in related discussions include: instead of specific engines link to list of search engines; instead of Google Scholar link to Internet Archive Scholar; add somewhere the source advice WP:RX; instead of Google alone link to "Google or list of search engines#General"; instead of Google News link to Searx news at Openxng.com, Searx.be and/or Priv.au.
~~~~