| Revision as of 09:38, 29 November 2023 editKaukênteo (talk | contribs)24 edits →The Southeast Asia part contains a picture of a protest against the Islamophobic film "Innocence of Muslims" in Malaysia. However this is not an example of Americanism. That is more like fighting against the movie than America itself.: new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 07:17, 12 December 2024 edit undoSjö (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers58,638 edits Undid revision 1262606762 by 2603:6011:2800:5BB:A8B4:FAB3:8CB7:5679 (talk) WP:NOTFORUMTag: Undo |
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{{old move|date=8 June 2024|destination=Anti-American sentiment|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1231700745#Requested move 8 June 2024}} |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2022 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Anti-Americanism|answered=yes}} |
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== Move: Anti-Americanism → Anti-American sentiment == |
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Though, it is fair to be noted, maybe not as justification but atleast to understand the situation, America's actions for money and power (economic and political) has influenced indirectly and directly the death of millions of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries. Such a view can be historically evidenced and defended. The idea is that, though there may be some aggressive people and groups, they represent a miniscule percentage of the Muslim societies, they are clear anomalies. People are 'just living their lives', and then when America decides to apply force, they don't value Muslim lives as much as they would others, whether consciously or unconsciously. Due to these, movements like ‘The war on terror’ and their people, are seen in some ways as the terrorists themselves by causing, literally, terror. <ref>{{cite news|url=https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/518204-the-truth-about-the-war-on-terror|title=The truth about the war on terror|work=The Hill|date=25 September 2020|first=William|last=Smith|accessdate=27 February 2022}}</ref> ] (]) 00:34, 27 February 2022 (UTC) |
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:Not done. Your source is not about anti-Americanism, and so it doesn't belong here. ] (]) 00:43, 27 February 2022 (UTC) |
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The country-specific articles use "sentiment" rather than "-ism", e.g. ], etc. ―<span style="font-family: IM Fell English, IM Fell Pica, EB Garamond, Garamond, Cormorant, Chapbook, serif;">] ('']'')</span> 08:52, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:'''Oppose''' The term is used much more broadly than conveyed by "sentiment". For example, according to the lead sentence, {{tq|sentiments and positions including opposition to its foreign policy}}. ] (]) 09:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:'''Mild Oppose''' I say "mild" in that the suggestion isn't egregiously wrong, and if there were consensus for it that would seem fine to me. However, per NightHeron, the term "Anti-Americanism" is generally broader in usage and this seems to be reasonably well explained in the lead. Also noting that "Anti-American sentiment" is already a redirect to this article, so anyone looking for sentiments is going to find it. ] (]) 10:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::::'''Comment''': It literally says {{tq|Anti-Americanism (also called '''anti-American sentiment''' or Americanophobia) is ...}}. |
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::(BTW, sorry for the late response.) |
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::―<span style="font-family: IM Fell English, IM Fell Pica, EB Garamond, Garamond, Cormorant, Chapbook, serif;">] ('']'')</span> 10:42, 12 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:* '''Support''' This would be in line with pretty much all other articles on xenophobia. I'll start a move discussion? |
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:] (]) 16:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2024 == |
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== Pakistan hate US == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Anti-Americanism|answered=yes}} |
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75% Population of Pakistan hate US,because US destroy Pakistan economy in 20 years of war Pakistanis hate US more than Russia,China,North Korea. ] (]) 14:36, 24 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:source? ] (]) 14:46, 24 July 2022 (UTC) |
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] (]) 20:23, 25 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Communist critiques == |
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Add Canada to list of countries that despise Americans. |
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This part of the article seems heavily dominated by East Germany, and leaves out modern Socialist and Communist criticism (areas that could be addressed include: |
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] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 20:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC) |
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1. American treatment of Native Americans: In East Germany for example, there was a very big pro-Native movement, Communists as early as even the 1920s were critising the USA on these grounds. The primary example being ]. And of course, modern Communists and Socialists who criticse the US on these grounds too. |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2024 == |
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2. American treatment of African Americans. Many Soviet posters were made condemming the USA for how it discriminated against the African American population. |
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{{edit semi-protected|Anti-Americanism|answered=yes}} |
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3. American imperialism: The USA was viewed as an imperialist power in the wake of the Korean War, Vietnam, Cuba, and pretty much any and all acts of ] during the Cold War period that were known about. |
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Request to add ] under a suitable paragraph or ''See also''. |
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] (]) 04:10, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{Done}} It might be a good idea to put it in the lead. —<span style="font-family:Poppins, Helvetica, Sans-serif;">]</span> ] 04:46, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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As for East Germany, I'm not entirely sure why this part of the page gives such a focus to them, all things considered. Perhaps parts of it could be trimmed down? ] (]) 13:25, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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== Requested move 8 June 2024 == |
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:I agree. Also, there are many problems with the section's treatment of East Germany. Several of the claims are unsupported by sources; there are 4 citation needed templates, of which 2 are from four years ago and 2 are from 1 1/2 years ago. The parts that are sourced rely too much on one book (Schnorr's ''The Good and the Bad America''). I can't check that source, since it's behind a paywall. It's not clear whether the direct quote "{{tq|terrorist international of murderers on Wall Street}}" is Schnorr's paraphrase or words of East Germans quoted by Schnorr. In either case it seems chosen out of context (and possibly mistranslated) in order to make East Germany look ridiculous. The main problem I see with the section is failure to adhere to ] and ]. |
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<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> |
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:If you have better sources for criticism of the US by socialist bloc countries, please feel free to extensively edit the section. ] (]) 14:42, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' |
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:<nowiki>I don't think those are examples of anti-Americanism. Lots of patriotic Americans for example opposed racial discrimination. I agree though that the East German section is too long. Note the quote, "Marx...did not participate in the anti-Americanism that came to be the hallmark of Communist ideology in the twentieth century." It would be helpful to explain how Communist anti-Americanism departed from Marxist analysis. ] (]) 17:57, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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The result of the move request was: '''not moved.''' Current title demonstrated to be the ]. <small>(])</small> <small>''''']''''' (])</small> 10:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC) |
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We have to be careful about adding material to this section (or the article in general) that describes opposition to the US government but does not necessarily meet the definition of ''anti-Americanism'' given at the beginning of the article: "{{tq|prejudice, fear or hatred of the United States, its government, its foreign policy, or Americans in general}}". I think the best approach would be to add material only if there's a reliable secondary source that uses the term ''anti-Americanism'' to describe the viewpoint. |
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I doubt that most scholars would use the term "anti-American" to refer to the viewpoint among some Native Americans that they should form a separate country, any more than they would use "anti-American" to refer to the Southern successionists in the Civil War. |
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Also, we should keep in mind the criticism of the over-use of the term. The section on "Interpretations" mentions, for example, the writings of Max Paul Friedman, who documents cases where the charge of "anti-Americanism" was used to deflect legitimate criticism and advice (such as French advice to President Kennedy not to send troops to Vietnam). |
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As far as communist anti-Americanism is concerned, there might be statements from the Soviet Union and/or China during the height of the Cold War that reliable sources would call "anti-American". Also, some communist groups in Latin America used rhetoric that sources might have termed "anti-American" (such as Sendero Luminoso in Peru, or in Cuba, where at one point a favorite slogan was ''Cuba si, Yankee no!''). ] (]) 11:46, 8 November 2022 (UTC) |
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===Deleted last 2 paragraphs of section=== |
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Reasons: (1) poorly sourced (as far as I can see, the sources don't specifically support the use of the term "anti-American", and so use of the term is ]); (2) the "back to Africa" and other such movements do not seem to fall under the definition of the term in the lead ("{{tq|heavily critical of America}}", the wording used in the deleted text, is not the same as anti-Americanism); (3) most of the people in those movements were not communists (socialist views are not the same as communism); (4) the Confederate States are not discussed in the article as an example of anti-Americanism, so there's a lack of balance in describing secessionist sentiments among minority groups as being anti-American. ] (]) 10:30, 27 November 2022 (UTC) |
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== Removed poorly sourced sentence about Russia == |
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I removed a sentence and the two sources, references 91 and 92, that were given. 92 is a dead link, and 91 is over 10 years old, so does not contain the "latest polls". It is obviously way out-of-date if you look at the Google translate, since it includes Belorussia and China among Russia's main enemies. Currently Belorussia is supporting Putin's war against Ukraine, and China is also more an ally than an enemy. ] (]) ] (]) 20:36, 13 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2023 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Anti-Americanism|answered=yes}} |
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Change the misspelled word "Paraguyan" to "Paraguayan", only. ] (]) 17:10, 8 July 2023 (UTC) |
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:Done. Thanks. ] (]) 18:00, 8 July 2023 (UTC) |
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== Move: Anti-Americanism → Anti-American sentiment == |
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The country-specific articles use "sentiment" rather than "-ism", e.g. ], etc. ―<span style="font-family: IM Fell English, IM Fell Pica, EB Garamond, Garamond, Cormorant, Chapbook, serif;">] ('']'')</span> 08:52, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:'''Oppose''' The term is used much more broadly than conveyed by "sentiment". For example, according to the lead sentence, {{tq|sentiments and positions including opposition to its foreign policy}}. ] (]) 09:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:'''Mild Oppose''' I say "mild" in that the suggestion isn't egregiously wrong, and if there were consensus for it that would seem fine to me. However, per NightHeron, the term "Anti-Americanism" is generally broader in usage and this seems to be reasonably well explained in the lead. Also noting that "Anti-American sentiment" is already a redirect to this article, so anyone looking for sentiments is going to find it. ] (]) 10:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::::'''Comment''': It literally says {{tq|Anti-Americanism (also called '''anti-American sentiment''' or Americanophobia) is ...}}. |
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::(BTW, sorry for the late response.) |
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::―<span style="font-family: IM Fell English, IM Fell Pica, EB Garamond, Garamond, Cormorant, Chapbook, serif;">] ('']'')</span> 10:42, 12 September 2023 (UTC) |
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] → {{no redirect|Anti-American sentiment}} – This would be in line with almost all other articles on xenophobia, such as ], ], ], ], ], ], and that is just those beginning with 'A'. It is very commonly used in academia, although I don't know whether it is marginally more common than the status quo. ] (]) 16:48, 8 June 2024 (UTC) <small>— '''''Relisting.''''' ] (]) 17:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</small> <small>— '''''Relisting.''''' ] (]) 21:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</small> |
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== The Southeast Asia part contains a picture of a protest against the Islamophobic film "Innocence of Muslims" in Malaysia. However this is not an example of Americanism. That is more like fighting against the movie than America itself. == |
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*'''Oppose''' per ]. See . There are other "anti-____ism" articles like ] where that is the common name. ] ] 13:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Do we know what’s used more in academia? ] (]) 08:50, 12 June 2024 (UTC) |
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The picture is not a good example of Anti Americanism in Southeast Asia.Malaysia is rarely anti American. It's more criticizing the American support of Israel and some incidents that happen during the War on Terror ] (]) 09:38, 29 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:For what's its worth, reiterating my '''mild oppose''' for the same reasons that I gave when this came up (above) last September. ] (]) 05:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:<small>'''Relisting comment''': Currently tied; nore input needed. ] (]) 17:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</small> |
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:<small>'''Relisting comment''': Reverting close and relisting, per request on my talk page to allow for additional input ] (]) 21:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</small> |
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*'''Oppose'''. Currently the only evidence of a ] is the Ngrams graph, which shows a strong preference for the current title. Briefly going over the references in the article, both the current and proposed titles are used, but it seems that the current title is more common. If the nominator or another editor can find evidence that "Anti-American sentiment" is the more common name, ping me and I will reconsider; if this discussion has been closed, feel free to start a new one. However, with the current evidence, I oppose this move. ] </span>]] 15:36, 24 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Anti-Americanism is the more common name, but its inconsistency with other articles on xenophobia implies American exceptionalism. Only the European and American examples except this convention (sometimes racism replaces negative sentiment depending on context) ] (]) 15:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*::'''Comment''' 1) Consistency between article naming conventions is a considerably less compelling argument than ]. 2) Suggesting that the name of this article implies American exceptionalism seems a bit overwrought. ] (]) 05:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::Concur with CAVincent. --] (]) 16:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::I’m just saying that it is very ironic for an article on negative sentiment towards American people to be titled in a way that makes it exceptional. I would’ve thought that especially American people would want to counter this. Policy is a guideline remember ] (]) 17:30, 25 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*:::] is arguably more compelling than ], I'm surprised there is such opposition to this. ] (]) 19:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose'''. Per ] as discussed above. --] (]) 17:45, 24 June 2024 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> |
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Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 20:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
Done It might be a good idea to put it in the lead. —Panamitsu (talk) 04:46, 27 March 2024 (UTC)