Revision as of 21:24, 18 December 2023 edit2600:1700:5b2c:a090:3111:682e:5cd6:af1 (talk) →Delete "Caucasian," substitute "of European descent.": new sectionTag: New topic← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 16:01, 20 December 2024 edit undoUpon the rein of a wimpling wing (talk | contribs)247 edits →Copyright notice for Beals & Hoijer (1965): sockpuppetry: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply | ||
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== Why are a bunch of animal examples attached to blue eyes? == | |||
There are no animal examples attached to other eye colors. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:23, 18 June 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
== Why is editing blocked on an article with such poor sourcing? == | == Why is editing blocked on an article with such poor sourcing? == | ||
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Who besides me will actually READ all five of those sources? It's not unlikely that the original editor who contributed the sentences had racist motives. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> | Who besides me will actually READ all five of those sources? It's not unlikely that the original editor who contributed the sentences had racist motives. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> | ||
== Hazel Eyes == | |||
I'm not sure what the argument is about, but the genetics people are stating that Neanderthals gave the homo sapiens light skin and light eyes over a period of time.ie blue and green eyes. Not sure why that would upset anyone or be a controversial idea. | |||
The hazel eye section is very vague and inaccurate. It says hazel eyes are basically any combination of colors with brown, gold and green being the main components which doesn't really define what hazel actually is. It then goes onto say that hazel eyes are 'sometimes' referred to as being synonymous with the color of a hazelnut when that is the accurate primary definition of 'hazel' eyes, eyes that are the color hazel resembling the golden brown color of a hazelnut. | |||
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/neanderthal_facts_and_myths.shtml | |||
The hazel section needs to be properly addressed and edited to say that hazel eyes are eyes resembling the color 'hazel' which is the color of a hazelnut. Eyes that are the golden brown color of a hazelnut can be a combination of light brown, golds and greens when observed at close range. It can then go onto say that the term hazel can also be used ambiguously to refer to eyes that aren't a solid singular color, often when there's central heterochromia present. ] (]) 09:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Eye Color and Low-Light Vision Studies == | |||
Under the "Impact on Vision" section, there's no mention of findings related to vision in low-light. I'd add it myself but this is yet another gatekept article (rather ironic for a wiki site, no?) | |||
You can find a reference to a study at the University of Copenhagen here: | |||
https://katrinapaulson.medium.com/study-suggests-people-with-blue-eyes-can-read-better-in-dim-lighting-01b39d1862a6 | |||
…and to a study at Liverpool John Moore University here: | |||
https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2024/2/7/blue-eyes | |||
…as well as a passing reference to the findings in a section marked "Does eye color affect night sky vision?" here: | |||
https://www.almanac.com/seeing-in-the-dark | |||
While these aren't absolutely conclusive, I would argue they're no less substantiated or valid than the portion referring to the study on "Correlation of eye color on self-paced and reactive motor performance." ] (]) 16:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Hardly a "gatekept" article. It's protected from random driveby vandalism; once you've made a total of ten edits on Misplaced Pages, you'll be able to add these references yourself. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 19:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024 == | |||
{{edit semi-protected|Eye color|answered=y}} | |||
== eye color vs. color vision. == | |||
O please change altitudes to latitudes in the text on blue eyes. ] (]) 19:35, 26 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{done}} ] (]) 00:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Copyright notice for Beals & Hoijer (1965): sockpuppetry == | |||
article intersperses discussion of eye color with color vision, causing confusion. ] (]) 22:12, 29 April 2023 (UTC) | |||
:@174.65.170.163 "Under the same environmental conditions, there may be disagreement over the color of an object between two different people". Also the following paragraph is all about color vision, not eye color. ] (]) 22:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC) | |||
] | |||
== there no way 8-10% of world population has blue eyes == | |||
This image should never be re-added to the article again. As was shown at the on June 18, it is a copywritten work belonging to Beals and Hoijer (1965). Frost used this with limited permission in his blog post, but we do not have permission from Beals and Hoijer to use it. Regrettably, this image was recently re-uploaded under a false license using a circular reference, and has now been nominated for deletion again. Please don't add this image to the article as it is a violation of international copyright law. - ] (]) 02:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
world population is over 8,000,000,000 | |||
:Thank you for brining attention to this. This map should not be added to this page as it does appear to violate copyright law without permission from Beals and Hoijer. I am in full agreement with you. ] (]) 16:01, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
europe population is only 750,000,000 or 9.3% of world population and also western europe has at least 50 million non-europeans | |||
===Sockpuppetry=== | |||
even most indigenous europeans have brown eyes | |||
Predictably, the individual who uploaded this image and posted it here, Runjeetgupta008, has been confirmed as a sockpuppet of Tommygunn7886. Also confirmed as a sock was Ari Feldstein, who also edits with the same POV as Tommygunn7886. ] (]) 19:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Blue eyes: recessive trait? == | |||
in reality only about 1-3% of world population has blue eyes ] (]) 15:16, 3 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
The article states that "the earlier belief that blue eye color is a recessive trait has been shown to be incorrect," but the three sources provided do not unambiguously state this. | |||
:There's a common myth all over the internet that 8%-10% of people internationally have blue or gray eyes. 3% have 'true' gray eyes. 1% have 'true' violet eyes. 2% have green eyes. 5% have amber eyes. 5% have hazel eyes and the rest of the world have typical brown/dark brown. Even though many articles online have relayed these stats, this information on the internet is incredibly inaccurate as not only do the percentages not make much sense but it's also impossible to know exactly what percentage of the world has which eye colors. | |||
:Countries in North Africa, Middle East and Central Asia can have anywhere between 1%-20% of light eyes amongst their population depending on the country and i'm sure these populations aren't being taken into account when determining worldwide percentages of violet, blue, gray, green, amber, hazel, typical brown or dark brown eyes. | |||
:Eye colors like gray, green, amber and hazel are also difficult to determine as they fall in the middle of the spectrum in between deep blue and dark brown eyes so up close gray eyes can be just a light/pale blue. Hazel eyes up close can be green eyes with brown central heterochromia which would make them technically green eyes as the true color is always the outer color and true hazel eyes are just a light golden brown, not green eyes with central heterochromia. green eyes up close can be blue eyes with brown central heterochromia making their true color actually blue. The very specific amount of pigment needed to create amber eyes which are the lightest possible shade of brown would make them much rarer than green eyes in general, definitely not 5% of the world's population. | |||
:The origin of these made up international percentages of light eyes which have circulated all over the internet are most likely the result of a North American theory. There are definitely no reliable sources which can prove these percentages. ] (]) 07:05, 21 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Europe is not the only place with a high amount of diversity. ] (]) 06:56, 23 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
::Anyway, reliable sources say that, the number between 8 and 10 is correct, it may even be more according to some marginal sources. ] (]) 06:59, 23 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
One (to medterms.com) is a dead link with an archive of some irrelevant nonsense. The second (sciencedaily.com) states that "“It used to be thought that eye colour was what we call a simple ''Mendelian recessive trait'' - in other words, brown eye colour was dominant over blue, so a person with two brown versions of the gene or a brown and a blue would have brown eyes, and only two blues with no brown could produce blue eyes. | |||
== Delete "Caucasian," substitute "of European descent." == | |||
But the model of eye colour inheritance using a single gene is insufficient to explain the range of eye colours that appear in humans. ''We believe instead that there are two major genes'' - one that controls for brown or blue, and one that controls for green or hazel - and others that modify this trait." (emphasis mine) | |||
The third (Duffy et al.) states that interaction of a ''recessive'' mutation of OCA2 modifying other alleles associated with fair pigmentation is primarily responsible for blue eyes. | |||
Caucasian means "from the region surrounding the Caucasus Mountains." The relevant text is actually referring to "white" individuals, i.e. people of European descent. The phenomenon by which "Caucasian" morphed into "white" is based in nineteenth-century thought that privileged the Caucasian as "special" or "exemplary" whites. There is no reason to use the term now as a formal why to refer to whites. By Misplaced Pages's own sourcing, the term is "an obsolete category for race." | |||
The current wording is misleading (describing a recessive allele partially contributing to a polygenic phenotype as "not recessive" is roundabout to the point of untruth) and should be updated to better reflect Duffy et al. ] (]) 06:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
https://en.wikipedia.org/Caucasian_race | |||
:You are misrepresenting Duffy. They explained in it that it is multiple SNPs on OCA2, not OCA2 alone, which are responsible for color variation. It is not a "recessive" trait. ] (]) 15:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Why one earth can't I edit the text for eye color? Is it a controversial subject? ] (]) 21:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 16:01, 20 December 2024
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Why is editing blocked on an article with such poor sourcing?
"DNA studies on ancient human remains confirm that light skin, hair and eyes were present at least tens of thousands of years ago on Neanderthals, who lived in Eurasia for 500,000 years."
No, those sources don't say that -- especially the bit about "500,000 years," but more important (given the subject of the article) nothing "confirms" "light eyes" in Neanderthals, only light skin and red hair. Genes expressing blue eyes in modern homo sapiens were present but less dominant in a couple DNA samples mentioned in one of the articles, but that's it, and the article warns that the study is not widely accepted and that we ahve no way of knowing what the actual effect of thse genes would have been.
Yet there it is: DNA studies on ancient human remains confirm that light skin, hair and eyes were present at least tens of thousands of years ago on Neanderthals, who lived in Eurasia for 500,000 years.
Who besides me will actually READ all five of those sources? It's not unlikely that the original editor who contributed the sentences had racist motives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:cda0:9220:c1ea:12f4:f079:be78 (talk • contribs)
I'm not sure what the argument is about, but the genetics people are stating that Neanderthals gave the homo sapiens light skin and light eyes over a period of time.ie blue and green eyes. Not sure why that would upset anyone or be a controversial idea.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/neanderthal_facts_and_myths.shtml
Eye Color and Low-Light Vision Studies
Under the "Impact on Vision" section, there's no mention of findings related to vision in low-light. I'd add it myself but this is yet another gatekept article (rather ironic for a wiki site, no?)
You can find a reference to a study at the University of Copenhagen here: https://katrinapaulson.medium.com/study-suggests-people-with-blue-eyes-can-read-better-in-dim-lighting-01b39d1862a6
…and to a study at Liverpool John Moore University here: https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2024/2/7/blue-eyes
…as well as a passing reference to the findings in a section marked "Does eye color affect night sky vision?" here: https://www.almanac.com/seeing-in-the-dark
While these aren't absolutely conclusive, I would argue they're no less substantiated or valid than the portion referring to the study on "Correlation of eye color on self-paced and reactive motor performance." Gaius315 (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hardly a "gatekept" article. It's protected from random driveby vandalism; once you've made a total of ten edits on Misplaced Pages, you'll be able to add these references yourself. --jpgordon 19:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
O please change altitudes to latitudes in the text on blue eyes. 78.67.202.11 (talk) 19:35, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Copyright notice for Beals & Hoijer (1965): sockpuppetry
This image should never be re-added to the article again. As was shown at the original deletion case on June 18, it is a copywritten work belonging to Beals and Hoijer (1965). Frost used this with limited permission in his blog post, but we do not have permission from Beals and Hoijer to use it. Regrettably, this image was recently re-uploaded under a false license using a circular reference, and has now been nominated for deletion again. Please don't add this image to the article as it is a violation of international copyright law. - A Rainbow Footing It (talk) 02:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for brining attention to this. This map should not be added to this page as it does appear to violate copyright law without permission from Beals and Hoijer. I am in full agreement with you. Upon the rein of a wimpling wing (talk) 16:01, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Sockpuppetry
Predictably, the individual who uploaded this image and posted it here, Runjeetgupta008, has been confirmed as a sockpuppet of Tommygunn7886. Also confirmed as a sock was Ari Feldstein, who also edits with the same POV as Tommygunn7886. A Rainbow Footing It (talk) 19:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
Blue eyes: recessive trait?
The article states that "the earlier belief that blue eye color is a recessive trait has been shown to be incorrect," but the three sources provided do not unambiguously state this.
One (to medterms.com) is a dead link with an archive of some irrelevant nonsense. The second (sciencedaily.com) states that "“It used to be thought that eye colour was what we call a simple Mendelian recessive trait - in other words, brown eye colour was dominant over blue, so a person with two brown versions of the gene or a brown and a blue would have brown eyes, and only two blues with no brown could produce blue eyes. But the model of eye colour inheritance using a single gene is insufficient to explain the range of eye colours that appear in humans. We believe instead that there are two major genes - one that controls for brown or blue, and one that controls for green or hazel - and others that modify this trait." (emphasis mine)
The third (Duffy et al.) states that interaction of a recessive mutation of OCA2 modifying other alleles associated with fair pigmentation is primarily responsible for blue eyes.
The current wording is misleading (describing a recessive allele partially contributing to a polygenic phenotype as "not recessive" is roundabout to the point of untruth) and should be updated to better reflect Duffy et al. Jbt89 (talk) 06:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- You are misrepresenting Duffy. They explained in it that it is multiple SNPs on OCA2, not OCA2 alone, which are responsible for color variation. It is not a "recessive" trait. Upon the rein of a wimpling wing (talk) 15:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
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