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Revision as of 23:33, 24 December 2023 editJM2023 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,303 edits →Samer Abu Daqqa: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit Latest revision as of 12:40, 15 February 2024 edit undoMusikBot II (talk | contribs)Bots, Interface administrators, Administrators103,013 editsm Removing protection templates from unprotected page (more info) 
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
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The result was '''no consensus'''‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Opinion is split between keep and merge. Since there is no prospect of a consensus to delete, there is no point in continuing this AfD. Consensus for a merger can be sought in a talk page discussion if desired. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
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:{{la|1=Samer Abu Daqqa}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude> | ]) :{{la|1=Samer Abu Daqqa}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude> | ])
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*'''Keep''' and move to ]. As an event it has clear notability, with the having a dedicated piece on it and a ton of news articles about it. The rule for BLP/BIO1E is not to delete the entire article, but to focus it on the notable event, and there is a notable event here. ''']''' - 16:45, 17 December 2023 (UTC) *'''Keep''' and move to ]. As an event it has clear notability, with the having a dedicated piece on it and a ton of news articles about it. The rule for BLP/BIO1E is not to delete the entire article, but to focus it on the notable event, and there is a notable event here. ''']''' - 16:45, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*<s>'''Redirect''' to ] for now. Though I am unsure if even that event is independently notable. Airstrikes and people dying are a pretty routine part of war. Alternatively '''delete'''.</s> -] (]) 17:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC) *<s>'''Redirect''' to ] for now. Though I am unsure if even that event is independently notable. Airstrikes and people dying are a pretty routine part of war. Alternatively '''delete'''.</s> -] (]) 17:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
**'''Merge''' to ]. It's a better target and where this really belongs. -] (]) 18:22, 17 December 2023 (UTC) **'''Merge''' to ]. It's a better target and where this really belongs. -] (]) 18:22, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' also ], ], ], ], ], ], ] ] (]) 17:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC) *'''Comment''' also ], ], ], ], ], ], ] ] (]) 17:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:Unless you are under the impression that an air strike on a reporter is a routine event then ] simply does not apply. Unless you think we can not cover anything that has happened in the last month none of the others apply either. ''']''' - 18:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC) *:Unless you are under the impression that an air strike on a reporter is a routine event then ] simply does not apply. Unless you think we can not cover anything that has happened in the last month none of the others apply either. ''']''' - 18:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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*::::There is nothing FORUM about my comment, it is about ] which specifies where we use killing, death, or murder. If you think my comment is an ARBPIA violation you can take it to AE where I imagine you might get a few chuckles. ''']''' - 16:22, 22 December 2023 (UTC) *::::There is nothing FORUM about my comment, it is about ] which specifies where we use killing, death, or murder. If you think my comment is an ARBPIA violation you can take it to AE where I imagine you might get a few chuckles. ''']''' - 16:22, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
*:::::There is something FORUM about your comment because you admitted in that comment that you can't call it murder in the title without "an Israeli court to convict". And it's at least approaching an ARBPIA violation because "Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator." You've had blocks and bans before, you should know. If you can't follow standards you shouldn't be in this topic area. ] (]) 23:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC) *:::::There is something FORUM about your comment because you admitted in that comment that you can't call it murder in the title without "an Israeli court to convict". And it's at least approaching an ARBPIA violation because "Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator." You've had blocks and bans before, you should know. If you can't follow standards you shouldn't be in this topic area. ] (]) 23:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*::::::Yes, I was remarking on the absurdity of needing an Israeli court to convict an Israeli soldier of killing a Palestinian for that to be called "murder". If you feel that is an ARBPIA violation, by all means report it to ]. ''']''' - 23:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::Your userbox will likely get you there soon enough anyway. For now, focus on the deletion discussion WITHOUT closing in on ARBPIA. ] (]) 23:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*::::::::Lol, cool. ''']''' - 00:00, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to ] per Gidonb. When the bulk of his article/notability is due to his death, a standalone wikibio isn't quite justified. ] ] 07:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC) *'''Merge''' to ] per Gidonb. When the bulk of his article/notability is due to his death, a standalone wikibio isn't quite justified. ] ] 07:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to ]. The killing may receive sustained coverage due to the subsequent investigations and might eventually warrant a standalone article (]). ] 20:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC) *'''Merge''' to ]. The killing may receive sustained coverage due to the subsequent investigations and might eventually warrant a standalone article (]). ] 20:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::Having read the original comment, I can see it was incredibly inappropriate for Misplaced Pages. It calls back to the comment you made to me saying I don't think "Palestinian lives matter". If you can't follow ARBPIA and meet behavioural standards (and by your own admission "this topic just makes me very emotional"), you should avoid the Israel-Palestine topic completely. You risk a TBAN with such behaviour and it definitely doesn't belong in a deletion discussion. ] (]) 23:33, 24 December 2023 (UTC) ::::Having read the original comment, I can see it was incredibly inappropriate for Misplaced Pages. It calls back to the comment you made to me saying I don't think "Palestinian lives matter". If you can't follow ARBPIA and meet behavioural standards (and by your own admission "this topic just makes me very emotional"), you should avoid the Israel-Palestine topic completely. You risk a TBAN with such behaviour and it definitely doesn't belong in a deletion discussion. ] (]) 23:33, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
**'''Merge''' to ]. With regards, ] (]) 23:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC) **'''Merge''' to ]. With regards, ] (]) 23:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Relisting as I see no consensus here yet.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude>]</noinclude></p> :<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Relisting as I see no consensus here yet.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Keep''' ] (]) 22:05, 24 December 2023 (UTC) * '''Keep''' ] (]) 22:05, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*:@] any policy reasons? This isn't a vote, you should attempt to provide reasons based in policies and guidelines. ] (]) 23:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per ]. '''Oppose''' the suggestion to change the name. ] (]) 07:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' (brief summary) to ]. This is BLP1E, there are no sources showing this has notability beyond the 1E, details given beyond the 1E are brief memorials in articles about the 1E. Ping me if WP:THREE WP:RS with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject '''directly and indepth''' about something other than the 1E are found. <span style="font-family:Courier;"><b>&nbsp;//&nbsp;]&nbsp;::&nbsp;]&nbsp;</b></span> 07:26, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' either as is, or as ]; int'l coverage has produced sufficient sources to meet ]. -- ] (]) 07:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment:''' Samer Abu Daqqa's killing us now part of an in a continuation of coverage and guarantor of future sustained coverage. ] (]) 13:30, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge to ]''': per ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], as above. ] (]) 02:27, 1 January 2024 (UTC) <!--VCB बिनोद थारू-->
{{clear}}
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 12:40, 15 February 2024

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Opinion is split between keep and merge. Since there is no prospect of a consensus to delete, there is no point in continuing this AfD. Consensus for a merger can be sought in a talk page discussion if desired. Sandstein 08:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Samer Abu Daqqa

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Samer Abu Daqqa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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WP:BLP1E JM (talk) 15:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Move to "Killing of Samer Abu Daqqa" as per Nableezy Synotia (moan) 19:48, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Keep: and move to Killing of Samer Abu Daqqa - this is an unusual and notable event that has already well surpassed the coverage levels for WP:GNG. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:00, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Keep: and move per Nableezy. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 23:14, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Keep: What is the reason for nomination for deletion? The character achieves note clearly and prominently, and he is the first Al Jazeera journalist to be killed in Gaza! He is one of the founders of the Al Jazeera office in the Gaza Strip, meaning that he is not only a photojournalist, but one of the founders of the first Al Jazeera office in the Gaza Strip! Nominating the article for deletion or changing the name of the article is a very strange thing!!!--— Osama Eid 23:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
The reason, as explained above, is that he does not pass the guidelines for establishing encyclopedic notability. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:31, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Indeed, I don't understand why he asked "What is the reason" when I, you, and others have provided policy-based arguments as to why it should be deleted, moved, or merged. I listed 9 reasons for deletion and still he asks "what is the reason". JM (talk) 00:34, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
And apparently he does not feel any of your listed reasons actually applies. Nor do I. nableezy - 02:29, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
As to whether he feels the reasons apply or not, he did not say; all he said regarding my reasons was "what is the reason" and whether he agrees with the reasons or not, he's not even acknowledging that I provided any, let alone 9 of them. JM (talk) 04:12, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Move/Draftify. Certainly should be a "Killing of" article rather then a bio per WP:BLP1E. Unconvinced that notability at that level is clearly substantiated yet, so I think draftifying said article would probably be a good idea as well, but the move would be most important. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Merge (very selectively) into Killing of journalists in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, where this journalist belongs yet isn't mentioned. All this as BIO1E. This destination is preferred over the List of journalists killed in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war that comes with the article, because the list should be merged into Killing of journalists in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war as well. Yet the list is also a valid destination, as right now it exists alongside. Maybe by current setup the article is too refined. It's possible. Both would be legitimate destinations. My recommendation holds unless RS/I/V previous coverage ON this journalist is found. Always hard to find ON journalists as blurred by materials BY a journalist. So just tag me if you have it. I apply exactly the same standards for all sides and sorts (i.e. including for Hamas "militants", which this journalist is not). gidonb (talk) 03:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I suggest you re-read EVENT which this clearly does not pass.
  1. Events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect.
  2. Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below).
  3. Events having lesser coverage or more limited scope may or may not be notable; the descriptions below provide guidance to assess the event.
  4. Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance.
-Ad Orientem (talk) 16:07, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Reporters Without Borders has filed a complaint with the International Criminal Court that includes Samer Abu Daqqa's killing, which will bring along with it continued coverage about it. The coverage has been very wide and in diverse sources, from CNN (American), Jerusalem Post (Israeli), The Guardian (British), al-Jazeera (Qatari), France 24 (French). It has caused complaints to be raised to the ICC (international impact) by both al Jazeera and RWB, it has notable NGOs like the Committee to Protect Journalists and Reporters Without Borders discussing it at depth, it has the UNESCO Director General making remarks about it. But you just proclaim that this clearly does not pass. It has been re-analyzed afterwards, it has widespread coverage in diverse sources. It rather clearly does pass, and only a refusal to engage with the sourcing can explain how somebody denies that without any semblance of a justification. nableezy - 16:20, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
"Enduring historical significance." No.
Widespread impact." No.
"Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time... Yes. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:02, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes a reporter being killed by a drone attack is routine, a referral to the international criminal court is routine, accusations of war crimes are routine. Silly me. nableezy - 19:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Keep and move to Killing of Samer Abu Daqqa. Even if he doesn't personally fulfil the notability criteria, his murder by the IDF is definitely notable, since it has been widely covered in the news and elsewhere. —Trilletrollet 18:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
You’re not helping. nableezy - 19:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, you're probably right, so I modified my vote a bit. This topic just makes me very emotional. —Trilletrollet 21:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Thank you. nableezy - 21:39, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Having read the original comment, I can see it was incredibly inappropriate for Misplaced Pages. It calls back to the comment you made to me saying I don't think "Palestinian lives matter". If you can't follow ARBPIA and meet behavioural standards (and by your own admission "this topic just makes me very emotional"), you should avoid the Israel-Palestine topic completely. You risk a TBAN with such behaviour and it definitely doesn't belong in a deletion discussion. JM (talk) 23:33, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I see no consensus here yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz 22:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.