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Revision as of 16:18, 4 February 2024 view sourceMuboshgu (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators376,290 edits I'll be less nice. This is a person who spends too much time in the right wing media bubble and likely isn't coming back to respond to follow up queriesTag: Manual revert← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:01, 30 December 2024 view source Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,295,546 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Joe Biden/Archive 19) (bot 
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== Current consensus == <!-- Must be on this page, not the subpage, to support mobile users -->
{{/Current consensus}} {{/Current consensus}}


== Israel section == == "Announced military support for Israel" in the lede ==

I agree the CCR suit is undue here, that doesnt have the coverage to merit inclusion, but the criticism of his policies on Israel do have that coverage. @], would you agree generally that criticism of the support Biden has provided for Israel merits including a sentence on it there? Or, as you reverts indicate, are you simply opposed to any coverage at all? Because you also removed {{tq|Several scholars have accused Biden of being complicit in or permitting ].}} citing {{Cite news |last=Finucane |first=Brian |date=2023-11-17 |title=Is Washington Responsible for What Israel Does With American Weapons? |language=en-US |work=Foreign Affairs |url=https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/washington-responsible-what-israel-does-american-weapons |access-date=2023-12-14 |issn=0015-7120}}. A number of other sources can be added if you think there isnt weight in sourcing here. ''']''' - 17:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

:My thoughts are, this is about his presidency, we can't clutter up this article with stuff about that. ] (]) 17:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
::But why then include any part of it? It isnt NPOV to not include prominent controversies for the subjects we cover. If his position on the war is covered then so to should criticism of that position. If it doesnt belong at all, then neither does most of that section. ''']''' - 17:41, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
:::I agree, so why cover it at all. ] (]) 17:48, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Sure, if it was gotten rid of entirely I wouldnt be here. But covering it and not including criticism is why I am here. But currently we cover it in the lead and in a subsection, with nary a hint of any of the substantial criticism it has generated. ''']''' - 18:02, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::There's criticism of Israel's responses to Oct. 7 but nothing substantial and widespread that's particularly personal to Biden. A few fringey criticisms -- that he's responsible for everything alleged to be done by Netanyahu (whom he views with profound disdain) -- don't make it significant enough for his bio.]] 20:46, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::No, there is criticism of the United States in relation to Israel's actions, that criticism is about the policies of Biden, not Israel. And they certainly are not fringe. ''']''' - 14:35, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::In addition to being FRINGE, we also cannot unduly associate {{purple|"criticism of the United States in relation to Israel's actions"}} with this biography.]] 17:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::::There is criticism of Joe Biden's actions as president, which we cover at great length in his biography. ''']''' - 17:19, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
:I agree that the CCR lawsuit is very much ] here. Regarding criticism of Biden's stances on the war, if additional sources could be provided it ''might'' be worth a sentence or two in the biography and possibly some more space in ]. However, the way that sentence was worded seems ]. I don't have access to the full article to read the entire context, but assuming the sentence {{tq|Several scholars have accused Biden of being complicit in or permitting war crimes}} is based on the lede's statement {{tq|Further, U.S. officials risk complicity if Israel uses U.S. support to commit war crimes}} that seems like a misrepresentation of what the source actually says and how strongly it says it. Regardless, if criticism of Biden's positions on Israel were to be included it would need more sourcing to demonstrate due weight. <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">]</span><sup>]</sup> 21:55, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, it is absolutely bonkers that there isn't even a sentence such as "Biden's staunch support for Israel's military campaign in Gaza has sparked significant domestic pushback and protest. Many scholars warn that the United States risks being complicit in war crimes". This is pretty much just a down-the-line account of the situation. Let's do something here. ] (]) 23:28, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
::It s not "bonkers" when what you claim is patently untrue. All presidents have supported Israel's right to self-defends. Many college-aged students and some liberal members of Congress support Palestine. This is all routine. ] (]) 03:07, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
:::It is not routine. And what part of my claim is "patently untrue"? ] (]) 19:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
::::1) It is routine, and 2) pretty much all of it. Your position has gained no consensus, so it is time to move on. ] (]) 19:05, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::You aren't actually responding to anything I said, it's just "You're wrong". Give me specifics. The SCALE is so much bigger than what has happened before, which makes it worthy and notable. ] (]) 19:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I was actually going to make a new section on this, but I think it's related to this section so I'll add it here:

The nickname "Genocide Joe" has gotten significant coverage, including a response from the White House. It's mentioned in ]'s article. So the question is, shouldn't it be mentioned here on Joe Biden's article, given that it's directed at him?

Just going off of news reports on Google, we have , , , , , , , , , and others providing coverage of this nickname. I think it makes sense to mention this "Genocide Joe" nickname here on Joe Biden's article, and the "Israel" subsection seems like a good place to put it.--] (]) 22:44, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

:One's angry, frustrated little critics create pejoratives all the time, they are rarely noteworthy in that person's biography. It is certainly not noteworthy to the bio of John Kirby either, and should be removed. It was only added on Nov 27th to a little-trafficked Wiki page. ] (]) 23:42, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
::The sentiment . It has more importance internationally, I'd say, then a mere domestic policy dispute. ] (]) 12:32, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
:::US is despised. Dog bites man.]] 13:46, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

I support greater mention of the backlash to Biden's policies re Israel-Hamas, potentially in the lede, depending on other's thoughts. I think this policy is likely to define his presidency in the foreign policy arena, and has already generated significant domestic discontent as well. "Genocide Joe" seems more approopriate for ]. ] (]) 19:07, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
:To this non-American, non-expert, Biden's position on Israel seems broadly the same as that of every president for the past 70 years. If it was different, it would definitely be worthy of comment, but without further explanation, I see very little of long term significance in it. ] (]) 02:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
::It's significant because it is getting significant pushback in the streets, at universities, even among politicians in his own party. ] (]) 17:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
:::As opposed to strong support, as it would have in the past. ] (]) 17:18, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
::::That is not even remotely a truthful statement. Support of Israel and opposition to Hamas/Palestinians, and vice versa, does not hew to party lines. At the moment we see the likes of Candace Owens and Ilhan Omar condemning Israel, and the likes of Lindsey Graham and Joe Biden united in their Israel support. Even Donald Trump says he will support Israel by deporting pro-Palestinian student protesters. ] (]) 17:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::Strongly agree with the above re support/opposition cutting in unexpected ways, which is why the situation is notable and is (very,very probably) historic. ] (]) 18:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

:This has become a significant issue for Biden and is the main cause for his decline in support among Muslim voters and possibly also why younger voters now favor Trump. Past presidents did not by the way routinely agree with everything Likud did, as Lawrence J. Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, points out.https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/05/24/ronald-reagan-wasnt-afraid-to-use-leverage-to-hold-israel-to-task/] I certainly agree that not everything that comes up belongs in the article, but this has now achieved due weight for inclusion. ] (]) 21:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC):
::Agree - ] (]) 02:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

== why was his position on the New Castle County council removed?! ==
{{Infobox officeholder
| footnotes = {{Collapsible list
|titlestyle = background:lavender;text-align:center;
|title = Other offices
|bullets = on
| 2007–2009: Chair of the ]
| 2001–2003, 2007–2009: Chair of the ]
| 1987–1995: Chair of the ]
| 1971–1973: Member of the New Castle County Council from the 4th district
}}}}

It seems like it should be worth noting on his bio as a previous office held. lots of other political leaders have a local offices listed before their entry into federal politics. just seems like it's a random thing to remove and I know it was there in the past ] (]) 23:00, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

:It is mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of the opening section, it doesn't need to be in the infobox. ] (]) 00:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

:This has been discussed in the past & the consensus was to 'exclude' from the infobox. ] (]) 01:01, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
:Support keeping it at bottom of the page, not in infobox, as it is ''both'' important to the start of his carrer, yet minor when viewing his career as a whole. ] (]) 22:44, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Any thoughts on adding this position to the footnotes section of the infobox where the Senate chairmanships are? - ] (]) 15:53, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
:Why do we need it, what does it really add? ] (]) 16:02, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
::Helps provide an overall summary of Biden's political career? Keep in mind this is just in the footnotes section at the bottom of the infobox since its a minor point of the overall article. Example provided - ] (]) 16:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
:It's fine there. Certainly a good compromise. ]<sup>]</sup> 22:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
:No footnote. What's so important about his time on the New Castle Country council, that 'now & then', somebody wants to add it to the infobox? ] (]) 23:21, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
:I say include it on his infobox. It was his first elected office. New Castle County had 385,856 in the 1970 census. If it had 12 district seats then (like it currently does) that means Biden would have been representing a constituency of 32,154. More than almost any state legislature seat. In fact, if he had been in the Delaware State House in the 1970s (which has 41 districts), he'd be representing only 13,368 constituents. I think nobody would oppose including a Delaware State House tenure in the infobox (in fact, it'd probably be listed outright rather than relegated to "other offices"), so why oppose an office where he represented a constituency multitudes larger?? We are talking a sizable county.

:We often include county board tenures and city council tenures for politicians that have gone on to the House and Senate. What makes a VP/president so above us noting where they started? ] (]) 06:26, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
::Do we, examples? ] (]) 11:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

== Post Economies ==

Paid positions are self retained and housed by the Federal Government. This particular man comes from background including cooking etectera. Most `presidents` were more interesting because they didn't have internet. I know right. After what came before the great depresssion, it seemed that air conditioning was a problem. Not a problem. I know, right. Well, we've seen them all, from Mary Poppins to Charles Earl. Well, after he gets up, the pastimes of being on tv with his constituents add up. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:42, 23 January 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:What are you suggesting we do to this article? ] (]) 14:44, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 January 2024 ==

{{Edit extended-protected|Joe Biden|answered=yes}}
Sleepy Joe Biden


Change to "Joe Biden, also known as Sleepy Joe Biden, is an American politcian Blah blah blah." ] (]) 12:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
:See ]. ] (]) 12:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> ] (]) 15:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
::They have been blocked now anyway. ] (]) 15:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

== Conservation and old growth forests ==

Last time when I added content about the issue to the paragraph "presidency 2021 - present" sub section "infrastructure and climate" it was removed as not enough important. Maybe I really made it too long for a summary page. But I think it worth at least 22 words. There are around 500 in this sub section currently I think. This is what I want to write this time:

"During his presidency Biden promoted ] so much, that several records was broken. He took steps to protect ]."

Those are the sources. They explicitly mention climate.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-biden-administration-has-reached-conservation-records-in-2023/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/19/biden-forest-logging-ban-old-trees

Do you agree that it worth to be written? ] (]) 14:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
:Not here no. ] (]) 14:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

== Qualifying language in lead about withdrawal from Afghanistan ==

Currently the lead reads:

"He oversaw the complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan that ended the war in Afghanistan, during which the Afghan government collapsed and the Taliban seized control."


This might have been addressed before, but why does the lede mention only that Biden "announced" military support for Israel? This reads as if it was written prior to his administration in unprecedented numbers. If no one objects, I would change it to :
Do we think this language in the lead softballs the perception of the United States' withdrawal from Afghanistan? I would like to discuss whether there is a consensus on adding in qualifying language in the lead that the withdrawal yielded bipartisan criticism and was described as chaotic, botched, and/or controversial. While "complete" withdrawal is objective, I feel that the language in the ] lead reads more critically and maybe we should try to be more balanced. In the Trump lead, for example:


{{green|During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent extensive military aid to Israel, as well as limited humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.}}
1) "his political positions were described as populist, protectionist, isolationist, and nationalist;" 2) "His election and policies sparked numerous protests;" 3) "Trump promoted conspiracy theories and made many false and misleading statements;" 4) "Many of his comments and actions have been characterized as racially charged or racist and many as misogynistic" and it goes on.


While we're at it, I think it's also worth using a couple of words to add that the aid was sent despite allegations of war crimes, if anyone would like to discuss that. ] (]) 14:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Here are my sources to back up my proposition that the Afghanistan withdrawal be described more critically in the lead:
:It can be argued that as the US has supported Israel since the 1960's its undue to single out Biden. ] (]) 14:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
::I don't think that it's "singling out" Biden because A) , and B) that same year ] (]) 15:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}}, with the swap of "extensive" (from my original proposal) to "an unprecedented amount of", more factual. ] (]) 19:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
::I don't thing "unprecedented" is the correct terminology to use in the lead. While Biden has been a strong supporter for high levels of military aid, there have been similar meausres of support by prior administrations such as that of ] in the ]. ] (]) 22:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Never this much in a single year, though, which I think is quite notable. And IMO a factual stat is more descriptive + neutral than just something like "large", "extensive" ] (]) 13:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
:Disagree with this. The United States has been strongly supporting Israel for many decades. To imply that this is a Biden creation is not neutral. ] (]) 22:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
::@] Please explain how the sentence implies that this is a "Biden creation"? It states that the amount of military aid sent by the Biden administration since the war started is a record, which is true, as you can read for yourself. ] (]) 15:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
:::"Unprecedented" is hyperbolic language that suggests there is something out-of-the-ordinary about the Biden administration's support of Israel. ] (]) 22:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
::::I'm entirely fine with "record amount" if that makes it clearer, but this ''is'' the largest amount of military aid ever sent to Israel by the US in a year. Clearly Biden isn't the first president to support Israel; my proposed sentence isn't saying that either. But the aid he's sent during this war is notable – not only statistically but because of human rights concerns – which is why it's been a front-page news subject for more than a year. ] (]) 09:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
:Update: I changed the "announced" part since no one objected to that part. Would anyone like to add something about "record amount"? I'd be interested in an RfC to see where people stand on this ] (]) 14:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
::I would like to ask why do you believe that it is necessary to indicate that he sent '''limited''' humanitarian aid to Gaza. Is there a consensus of sources that agree that the amount of humanitarian aid is limited? I agree that it probably is not enough, but it seems to me that calling it limited, especially without sources is ]. ] (]) 02:53, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
:::{{u|WikiFouf}} No reply?--] (]) 15:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Sorry, wasn't very active recently. US failure in getting humanitarian aid into Gaza has been a major news topic for the past year: see floating pier saga, air dropping, 30-day ultimatum, etc. All of these failures are related to Israel limiting aid into Gaza. In any case, the military aid sent to Israel far outweighs the humanitarian aid to Gaza, so putting them side by side in the same sentence without qualifiers creates false balance imo. ] (]) 15:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::While I agree that the humanitarian aid is probably insufficient, I still find it to be a violation of ] to call it limited. ] (]) 19:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::It's literally limited, as I explained ] (]) 08:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{u|WikiFouf}} So once again, do you have any sources?--] (]) 14:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Don't have access to my computer at the moment, I can put sources in a couple of days. You can google the examples I've mentioned though, as I said it's been a big news topic ] (]) 14:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::@] First, for some perspective, the Biden admin has sent in military aid to Israel in a year, a historical record, and in humanitarian aid to Palestinians in the same period. Mentioning both forms of aid side by side without qualifiers is dishonest IMHO. Now here's a variety of sources talking how the humanitarian aid has been limited:
::::::::* 11/24 : (Associated Press)
::::::::* 11/24 : (TIME)
::::::::* 10/24 : (NBC News)
::::::::* 10/24 : (BBC)
::::::::* 09/24 : (ProPublica)
::::::::* 07/24 : (Economist)
::::::::* 07/24 : (PBS)
::::::::* 06/24 : (New York Times)
::::::::* 05/24 : (Reuters)
::::::::* 03/24 : (Washington Post)
::::::::* 02/24 : (VOA)
::::::::* 02/24 : (CNN)
::::::::* 01/24 : (Guardian)
::::::::] (]) 13:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::{{re|WikiFouf}} Most of these sources do not say that the Biden administration is sending a limited amount of aid to Gaza, but that limited aid is actually getting into Gaza, mainly due to obstruction by the Israeli government, right-wing protestors and weather. ] (]) 16:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::@] I've been interpreting it in the literal sense, as in the amount of aid is literally (being) limited; not that it's a limited amount as in "a small amount". I do agree with you that the term is not ideal and can lead to confusion, but it's a hard situation to condense properly in just a couple of words. I'm really against putting "military" and "humanitarian aid" side by side just like that, for the reasons I explained. But I'm also not sure that the humanitarian aid saga is something worth dedicating more than a couple of words to. Suggestions? ] (]) 20:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{U|WikiFouf}} If you also find the term to be too contentious, we can just remove the entire clause about sending humanitarian aid to Palestine, at least until a consensus can be found. We can also try an RFC. ] (]) 15:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::@] I'm fine with that, I'll remove it rn. I was already thinking an RFC could be useful to decide how to include the war in the lede in general, so I'm all for it ] (]) 21:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)


== Biden believes he could have won re-election ==
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/28/top-generals-afghanistan-withdrawal-congress-hearing-514491
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/18/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-506065
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/politics/house-republicans-afghanistan-biden-benghazi/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58238497
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-taliban-decision/
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2-years-withdrawal-afghanistan-continues-cast-pall-biden/story?id=102837216


In December 2024, as was widely reported, Biden told aides he regretted his decision to withdraw from the race; believing he would have won the election as his party's nominee.<ref>{{Cite news |last=Massie |first=Graeme |date=December 29, 2024 |title=Biden still regrets dropping out of 2024 race and believes he could have beaten Trump, says report |newspaper=] |url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-trump-us-elections-2024-merrick-garland-b2671126.html |access-date=December 29, 2024 }}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Pager |first=Tyler |date=December 28, 2024 |title=Joe Biden’s lonely battle to sell his vision of American democracy |newspaper=] |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/12/28/bidens-lonely-battle-to-sell-american-democracy/ |access-date=December 29, 2024 }}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Tait |first=Robert |date=December 28, 2024 |title=Biden reportedly regrets ending re-election campaign and says he’d have defeated Trump |newspaper=] |url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/28/joe-biden-regrets-dropping-out-re-election |access-date=December 29, 2024 }}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Calder |first=Rich |date=December 28, 2024 |title=Biden regrets leaving presidential race, thinks he could’ve beaten Trump: report |newspaper=] |url=https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/biden-regrets-leaving-presidential-race-thinks-he-would-beat-trump/ |access-date=December 29, 2024 }}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last=Stimson |first=Brie |date=December 28, 2024 |title=Biden still regrets dropping out of 2024 presidential race, believes he could have beaten Trump: report |publisher=] |url=https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-still-regrets-dropping-out-2024-presidential-race-believes-he-could-have-beaten-trump-report |access-date=December 29, 2024 }}</ref>
P.S.: This is not supposed to be a "politically charged" comment. I just wish to have a conversation about building a consensus. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The problem is I am unsure how "the Afghan government collapsed and the Taliban seized control." is not negative. ] (]) 17:58, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
::I think the withdrawal is separate from the collapse of the Afghan government because the casual inference "He oversaw the complete withdrawal" which led to the "Afghan government collapse" is incorrect. The question is more: "should the language already used later in the article be used in the lead considering another presidential lead uses similar language." ] (]) 18:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
:The opposition to the Afghanistan withdrawal were just the usual largely partisan screeds, with a dash of hypocrisy, as Biden only followed the plan Trump himself had laid out while in office. No change to the current text is necessary. ] (]) 18:32, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
::The language I proposed is used later in the article... ] (]) 18:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)


This information is confirmed by multiple ] and is obviously relevant to his notability as a politician. ] (]) 15:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
== County Board tenure should be added to “other offices” in infobox ==
:But is it actually relevant, (assuming its true). ] (]) 15:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


It should ] (]) 02:27, 4 February 2024 (UTC) :"Anonymous Sources Said" is a red flag for ] articles. We're not a tabloid. ] (]) 22:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:See farther up the talkpage, concerning this topic. ] (]) 02:35, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:01, 30 December 2024

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    This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 82 million views since December 2007.
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    Section sizes
    Section size for Joe Biden (63 sections)
    Section name Byte
    count
    Section
    total
    (Top) 9,632 9,632
    Early life (1942–1965) 9,050 9,050
    Marriages, law school, and early career (1966–1973) 10,599 27,199
    1972 U.S. Senate campaign in Delaware 1,826 1,826
    Death of wife and daughter 3,828 3,828
    Second marriage 8,342 8,342
    Teaching 2,604 2,604
    U.S. Senate (1973–2009) 74 39,489
    Senate activities 19,310 19,310
    Brain surgeries 2,434 2,434
    Senate Judiciary Committee 6,590 6,590
    Senate Foreign Relations Committee 5,856 11,081
    Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq 5,225 5,225
    1988 and 2008 presidential campaigns 44 16,364
    1988 campaign 10,829 10,829
    2008 campaign 5,491 5,491
    2008 and 2012 vice presidential campaigns 49 27,980
    2008 campaign 12,057 12,057
    2012 campaign 15,874 15,874
    Vice presidency (2009–2017) 77 38,370
    First term (2009–2013) 23,882 23,882
    Second term (2013–2017) 10,009 14,411
    Role in the 2016 presidential campaign 4,402 4,402
    Post-vice presidency (2017–2021) 6,681 6,681
    2020 presidential campaign 78 31,911
    Speculation and announcement 3,490 3,490
    Campaign 22,421 22,421
    Presidential transition 5,922 5,922
    Presidency (2021–present) 133 191,194
    Inauguration 6,205 6,205
    First 100 days 13,050 13,050
    Domestic policy 9,091 75,090
    Economy 19,243 19,243
    Judiciary 5,690 5,690
    Infrastructure and climate 13,835 13,835
    Immigration 11,500 11,500
    Pardons and commutations 3,271 3,271
    Pardon of Hunter Biden 6,021 6,021
    2022 elections 6,439 6,439
    Foreign policy 5,772 57,693
    Withdrawal from Afghanistan 11,473 11,473
    Russian invasion of Ukraine 12,113 12,113
    China affairs 10,192 10,192
    Israel–Hamas war 14,104 14,104
    NATO enlargement 4,039 4,039
    Investigations 23 13,988
    Retention of classified documents 5,768 5,768
    Business activities 8,197 8,197
    Age and health concerns 7,354 7,354
    2024 presidential campaign 17,681 17,681
    Political positions 30,857 30,857
    Public image 10,788 19,362
    Job approval 7,095 7,095
    Media depictions 1,479 1,479
    See also 238 238
    Notes 138 138
    References 17 1,680
    Citations 34 34
    Works cited 1,629 1,629
    Further reading 1,430 1,430
    External links 119 11,303
    Official 440 440
    Other 10,744 10,744
    Total 462,878 462,878

    Current consensus

    NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:
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    To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to purge this page.

    01. In the lead section, mention that Biden is the oldest president. (RfC February 2021)

    02. There is no consensus on including a subsection about gaffes. (RfC March 2021)

    03. The infobox is shortened. (RfC February 2021)

    04. The lead image is the official 2021 White House portrait. (January 2021, April 2021)

    05. The lead image's caption is Official portrait, 2021. (April 2021)

    06. In the lead sentence, use who is as opposed to serving as when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

    07. In the lead sentence, use 46th and current as opposed to just 46th when referring to Biden as the president. (RfC July 2021)

    08. In the lead section, do not mention Biden's building of a port to facilitate American aid to Palestinians. (RfC June 2024)

    "Announced military support for Israel" in the lede

    This might have been addressed before, but why does the lede mention only that Biden "announced" military support for Israel? This reads as if it was written prior to his administration actually sending the military aid in unprecedented numbers. If no one objects, I would change it to :

    During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent extensive military aid to Israel, as well as limited humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.

    While we're at it, I think it's also worth using a couple of words to add that the aid was sent despite allegations of war crimes, if anyone would like to discuss that. WikiFouf (talk) 14:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

    It can be argued that as the US has supported Israel since the 1960's its undue to single out Biden. Slatersteven (talk) 14:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
    I don't think that it's "singling out" Biden because A) no administration has ever sent Israel this much aid in a year, and B) that same year was the deadliest of the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict WikiFouf (talk) 15:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
     Done, with the swap of "extensive" (from my original proposal) to "an unprecedented amount of", more factual. WikiFouf (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
    I don't thing "unprecedented" is the correct terminology to use in the lead. While Biden has been a strong supporter for high levels of military aid, there have been similar meausres of support by prior administrations such as that of Operation Nickel Grass in the Yom Kippur War. LosPajaros (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
    Never this much in a single year, though, which I think is quite notable. And IMO a factual stat is more descriptive + neutral than just something like "large", "extensive" WikiFouf (talk) 13:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
    Disagree with this. The United States has been strongly supporting Israel for many decades. To imply that this is a Biden creation is not neutral. Esterau16 (talk) 22:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    @Esterau16 Please explain how the sentence implies that this is a "Biden creation"? It states that the amount of military aid sent by the Biden administration since the war started is a record, which is true, as you can read for yourself. WikiFouf (talk) 15:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    "Unprecedented" is hyperbolic language that suggests there is something out-of-the-ordinary about the Biden administration's support of Israel. Zaathras (talk) 22:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    I'm entirely fine with "record amount" if that makes it clearer, but this is the largest amount of military aid ever sent to Israel by the US in a year. Clearly Biden isn't the first president to support Israel; my proposed sentence isn't saying that either. But the aid he's sent during this war is notable – not only statistically but because of human rights concerns – which is why it's been a front-page news subject for more than a year. WikiFouf (talk) 09:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
    Update: I changed the "announced" part since no one objected to that part. Would anyone like to add something about "record amount"? I'd be interested in an RfC to see where people stand on this WikiFouf (talk) 14:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
    I would like to ask why do you believe that it is necessary to indicate that he sent limited humanitarian aid to Gaza. Is there a consensus of sources that agree that the amount of humanitarian aid is limited? I agree that it probably is not enough, but it seems to me that calling it limited, especially without sources is pushing a POV. DeathTrain (talk) 02:53, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
    WikiFouf No reply?--DeathTrain (talk) 15:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
    Sorry, wasn't very active recently. US failure in getting humanitarian aid into Gaza has been a major news topic for the past year: see floating pier saga, air dropping, 30-day ultimatum, etc. All of these failures are related to Israel limiting aid into Gaza. In any case, the military aid sent to Israel far outweighs the humanitarian aid to Gaza, so putting them side by side in the same sentence without qualifiers creates false balance imo. WikiFouf (talk) 15:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
    While I agree that the humanitarian aid is probably insufficient, I still find it to be a violation of WP:NPOV to call it limited. DeathTrain (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
    It's literally limited, as I explained WikiFouf (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
    WikiFouf So once again, do you have any sources?--DeathTrain (talk) 14:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
    Don't have access to my computer at the moment, I can put sources in a couple of days. You can google the examples I've mentioned though, as I said it's been a big news topic WikiFouf (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DeathTrain First, for some perspective, the Biden admin has sent $17.9 billion in military aid to Israel in a year, a historical record, and $1.2 billion in humanitarian aid to Palestinians in the same period. Mentioning both forms of aid side by side without qualifiers is dishonest IMHO. Now here's a variety of sources talking how the humanitarian aid has been limited:
    WikiFouf (talk) 13:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
    @WikiFouf: Most of these sources do not say that the Biden administration is sending a limited amount of aid to Gaza, but that limited aid is actually getting into Gaza, mainly due to obstruction by the Israeli government, right-wing protestors and weather. DeathTrain (talk) 16:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DeathTrain I've been interpreting it in the literal sense, as in the amount of aid is literally (being) limited; not that it's a limited amount as in "a small amount". I do agree with you that the term is not ideal and can lead to confusion, but it's a hard situation to condense properly in just a couple of words. I'm really against putting "military" and "humanitarian aid" side by side just like that, for the reasons I explained. But I'm also not sure that the humanitarian aid saga is something worth dedicating more than a couple of words to. Suggestions? WikiFouf (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    WikiFouf If you also find the term to be too contentious, we can just remove the entire clause about sending humanitarian aid to Palestine, at least until a consensus can be found. We can also try an RFC. DeathTrain (talk) 15:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    @DeathTrain I'm fine with that, I'll remove it rn. I was already thinking an RFC could be useful to decide how to include the war in the lede in general, so I'm all for it WikiFouf (talk) 21:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

    Biden believes he could have won re-election

    In December 2024, as was widely reported, Biden told aides he regretted his decision to withdraw from the race; believing he would have won the election as his party's nominee.

    This information is confirmed by multiple WP:RS and is obviously relevant to his notability as a politician. ZebulonMorn (talk) 15:36, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    But is it actually relevant, (assuming its true). Slatersteven (talk) 15:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    "Anonymous Sources Said" is a red flag for WP:BLP articles. We're not a tabloid. Zaathras (talk) 22:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1. Massie, Graeme (December 29, 2024). "Biden still regrets dropping out of 2024 race and believes he could have beaten Trump, says report". The Independent. Retrieved December 29, 2024.
    2. Pager, Tyler (December 28, 2024). "Joe Biden's lonely battle to sell his vision of American democracy". The Washington Post. Retrieved December 29, 2024.
    3. Tait, Robert (December 28, 2024). "Biden reportedly regrets ending re-election campaign and says he'd have defeated Trump". The Guardian. Retrieved December 29, 2024.
    4. Calder, Rich (December 28, 2024). "Biden regrets leaving presidential race, thinks he could've beaten Trump: report". New York Post. Retrieved December 29, 2024.
    5. Stimson, Brie (December 28, 2024). "Biden still regrets dropping out of 2024 presidential race, believes he could have beaten Trump: report". Fox News. Retrieved December 29, 2024.
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