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Latest revision as of 08:47, 22 February 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,382,865 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 3 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "B" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 1 same rating as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Ukraine}}. Remove 5 deprecated parameters: b1, b2, b3, b4, b5. Keep 1 different rating in {{WikiProject Architecture}}.Tag: Talk banner shell conversion |
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|action2date=26 August 2007 (UTC) |
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|action2link=Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Archive 28#Onion Dome |
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|action3date = 04:57, 25 April 2023 (UTC) |
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|action3link = Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Onion dome/1 |
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{{WikiProject Ukraine|importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Architecture|class=C|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Russia|importance=top|tech=yes|relig=yes|art=yes}} |
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== what is inside the dome? == |
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{{Architecture SA|2007|2}} |
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{{Architecture|class=GA|importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Russia|class=GA|importance=Mid}} |
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== older entries == |
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The idea that the shape of the traditional Russian church domes is based on the shape of onions is ridiculous. Were ancient Slavs worshipping some onion deity? No traces of such a vegetable cult exist. However, there IS a striking similarity between the shape of the onion domes (together with the towers that hold them) with the shape of the young hallucinogenic liberty caps (psylocibe semilanceata) mushrooms. The same shape of domes and arches can be seen in many instances of islamic architecture in Iran, Pakistan, India and the whole of Central Asia - everywhere the Indo-Aryans went. I personally have no doubts that the onion (persian) domes are the last traces of the Soma(Haoma) worship. ] |
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By the way, what is an onion dome called in Russian? ] 03:40, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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: They are called "makovki", i.e. poppy heads. ] |
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:: My sources say луковица, or "lúkovitsa" (onion) ] <sup>]</sup> 05:12, 21 September 2006 (UTC) |
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Update: Since the article has been rewritten, I've withdrawn the vfd request. Here is the vfd discussion: ] Many thanks to ] . ] 03:37, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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==Proposed new article== |
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''New article text on onion domes in architecture moved to article space. Old article text below refers to satirical website.'' |
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==Old article text== |
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Satirical site poking fun at Orthodox Christianity, has caused heated debate within the Orthodox community. Many Orthodox Christians declare the site to be heretical and blasphemous, while others hale it as a breath of fresh air. Onion Dome is an American site, reaching the nearly six million Eastern Orthodox Christians in the Uited States. |
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==External links== |
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* |
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Missing: (Sketch for Addition:) |
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You will also find Onion Domes in South Germany, in Austria and in the Italian South Tirol, where Catholic Religion is dominant. They are there the typical attribute of barbeque churches. The Munich Frauenkirche has an Onion Dome, too. |
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--] 08:32, 7 August 2005 (UTC) who has now not enough time (and probably not architectural clue) to add to this article |
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: These are not onion domes, but pear domes and butt domes. They are not like onions at all. --] 07:38, 8 August 2005 (UTC) |
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Is there any symbolism to the shape of the onion domes themselves? I have heard that it was supposed to represent the tongues of flame that appeared over the heads of the apostles in Acts 2. ] 16:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC) |
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I was recently in Russia and the tourguide claimed that onion domes were symbolizing candles. Is there any definative answer to that stated by the Church itself? ] 14:01, 17 August 2006 (UTC) |
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== Proto-Gothic == |
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:'' It seems logical that elongated, or onion, domes were part of the same proto-Gothic trend aimed at achieving pyramidal, vertical emphasis |
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Should that be ''pseudo-Gothic'', meaning resembling the Gothic, rather than proto-Gothic, which implies that it was ancestor of the Gothic? ''—] ] <small>2006-09-09 00:37 Z</small>'' |
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== GA Comments == |
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Nice article. I edited some minor things, i.e. boldface at the lead section and external links. However, there are other things, before this article passes GA quality: |
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# About verifiability. I know most references are in Russian, but to make this article verifiable, could editors translate the reference in English and put note like (in ]) ? |
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# Are there any English reference about onion dome? Because English source is preferable and more verifiable in the English version of Misplaced Pages. |
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# I found ] has an obsolete license tag. Could you please change that? |
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— ] (]) — 20:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC) |
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== GA passed == |
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I saw the image tag has been fixed, but I'm still annoyed by cyrillic citations. Per ], here's my assessement of this article: |
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1. It is '''well written'''. |
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:(a) compelling prose to non-specialist readers: ''passes'' |
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::* I enjoy reading this small and compact article. |
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:(b) logical structure and ]: ''needs a little bit improvement'' |
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::* Lead section can be expanded a little bit to summarize the 2 historical views and the symbolism. |
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:(c) follows ]: ''passes'' |
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:(d) technical jargons: ''passes'' |
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2. It is '''factually accurate''' and ''']'''. |
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:(a) references: ''needs English references'' |
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::* Per ], English source is prefered, if available. |
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::* I've made a little literature search about onion dome, and here are some English sources, the editors can use: |
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::*# {{cite journal|title=Concerning the Origin of the Onion Dome and Onion Spires in Central European Architecture|journal=Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians|last=Schindler|first=Hans|volume=40|issue=2|date=1981|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.2307/989727|pages=138-142}} |
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::*# {{cite conference|booktitle=Holy Transformation of Christ Orthodox Cathedral|title=Guide to Its Art and Architecture|last=Kuczun|first=Ann-Marie|url=http://www.transfigcathedral.org/about/guideBook.pdf}} |
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::*# {{cite journal|title=A history of masonry and concrete domes in building construction|last=Cowan|first=H.J.|journal=Building and Environment|volume=12|issue=1|pages=1-24|date=1977|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0360-1323(77)90002-6}} |
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::* So, those are a good start for the editors to replace sources with English ones. |
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:(b) inline citations: ''passes'' |
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:(c) ]: ''no comment'' |
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::* The problem is that citations are given in Cyrillics. Thus I cannot read it to assess how reliable sources are. |
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:(d) ]: ''passes'' |
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3. It is '''broad in its coverage'''. |
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:(a) all aspects: ''passes'' |
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::* As far as I read, major topics about onion dome, i.e. its history and its symbol, have been given. |
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:(b) stays focus: ''passes'' |
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4. It follows the '''] policy'''. |
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:(a) no bias: ''passes'' |
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:(b) all viewpoints: ''passes'' |
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5. It is '''stable''', no edit wars: ''passes'' |
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:* In fact, it is too stable as no answers have been given to my comments in the previous thread. |
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6. It '''contains ]'''. |
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:(a) properly ] and have ]: ''passes'' |
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::* Image tag problem has been fixed. |
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:(b) lack of images: ''passes'' |
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::* All images are informative to the subject. |
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I still think that sources in the References should be translated to English, rather than Cyrllic like that, making reader unknown about sources of this article. I assume ] of the reliable sources given in this article. Despite of this citation problem, the article passes GA standards. — ] (]) — 09:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC) |
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==Comments== |
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I'd like to make a comment here if I may. I like this article and feel it certainly has the makings of an FA; however, as someone interested in architecture I like to know "what's going on under the hood" so to speak - to be really "broad in it's coverage" I think some mention of it's construction is necessary, sections ideally, material, structural principle etc. - does anyone know where this sort of citable information might be living - I'll go and have a look but perhaps some others can too.--] | ] 21:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC) |
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There's a very small section of a church at Kizhi in ''The Wooden Architecture of Russia: Houses, Fortifications, Churches'' |
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by Alexander Opolovnikov et al. I couldn't find anything like blueprints, though. ] 03:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC) |
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The article doesn't say anything about what's inside the dome. I guess they'd be windowless, but are there usually rooms or other usable space up there? They are big enough. ] (]) 00:55, 10 May 2014 (UTC) |
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Some mention of the ] would be good too I think. --] | ] 21:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC) |
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: That would depend on what the tower below them is made of. Inside the dome is cold, dark and sometimes only a small space because of the timber. A dome covered in tiles has many gaps and there will be birds. If the church is small and the tower is made of wood then it cannot support more weight than the dome. Large churches with brick or stone towers have more space. Sometimes things are hidden up there. I have not seen one with stairs to the dome, only ladders, so it is hard to carry some heavy chest up there. ] (]) 11:21, 13 November 2016 (UTC) |
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== oldest onion shaped dome in Western and Central Europe == |
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A helmet dome stub need creating. --] | ] 22:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC) |
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According to the article the oldest onion shaped dome in Western and Central Europe is to be found in Augsburg (1576). In 1520 however the tower of the 'Grote Kerk' in Haarlem was topped with an open onion. Shortly after 1533 the crossing of Antwerp Cathedral already got an onion shaped dome. The tower of Sint-Katharinakerk in Hoogstraten (Belgium) was crowned with an onion in 1546. This shows that in the Low Countries these onion domes were constructed far earlier than 1576.] (]) 10:55, 8 December 2018 (UTC) |
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== Not just Russian? == |
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== GAR == |
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I'm confused. In this article all the pictures and information seems to all be about Russian architecture. Aren't Onion Domes used all around the world? Byzantium? Indian Moghal - Taj Mahal, etc? I don't really know all that much about Architecture or anything, but yeah I'm confused. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 19:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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{{Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Onion dome/1}} |
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== Expand: Onion domes in Central Europe == |
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== what year is this art from? == |
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This article dearly needs to be expanded to include the hundreds if not thousands of onion domes in Central Europe, particularly the German speaking countries, where they are a common and typical view. See ] or ] for examples. --] 10:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC) |
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I can't find any sources on when this art is from, but it features 2 onion domes: https://en.wikipedia.org/File:Simeon_Stylites_the_Younger.jpg <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 12:06, 5 September 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
The article doesn't say anything about what's inside the dome. I guess they'd be windowless, but are there usually rooms or other usable space up there? They are big enough. 70.36.142.114 (talk) 00:55, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
According to the article the oldest onion shaped dome in Western and Central Europe is to be found in Augsburg (1576). In 1520 however the tower of the 'Grote Kerk' in Haarlem was topped with an open onion. Shortly after 1533 the crossing of Antwerp Cathedral already got an onion shaped dome. The tower of Sint-Katharinakerk in Hoogstraten (Belgium) was crowned with an onion in 1546. This shows that in the Low Countries these onion domes were constructed far earlier than 1576.Fred Vanderpoorten (talk) 10:55, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An older GA that contains significant uncited text, including material such as " It has been posited that onion domes first appeared in Russia" and material attributed to specific writers that certainly need direct citations. Hog Farm Talk 14:24, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
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