| Revision as of 09:47, 1 May 2024 view sourceJimbo Wales (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Founder14,540 edits →Hello Jimbo!: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 17:05, 16 January 2025 view source Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,307,002 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 252) (bot | ||
| (735 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown) | |||
| Line 14: | Line 14: | ||
| | subject = talkpage | | subject = talkpage | ||
| | author = Matthew Gault | | author = Matthew Gault | ||
| | title = Misplaced Pages Editors Very Mad About Jimmy |
| title = Misplaced Pages Editors Very Mad About Jimmy Wales' NFT of a Misplaced Pages Edit | ||
| | org = ] | | org = ] | ||
| | url = https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjbkvm/wikipedia-editors-very-mad-about-jimmy-waless-nft-of-a-wikipedia-edit | | url = https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjbkvm/wikipedia-editors-very-mad-about-jimmy-waless-nft-of-a-wikipedia-edit | ||
| Line 23: | Line 23: | ||
| | algo = old(10d) | | algo = old(10d) | ||
| | archive = User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive %(counter)d | | archive = User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive %(counter)d | ||
| | counter = |
| counter = 252 | ||
| | maxarchivesize = 350K | | maxarchivesize = 350K | ||
| | archiveheader = {{aan}} | | archiveheader = {{aan}} | ||
| Line 33: | Line 33: | ||
| {{-}} | {{-}} | ||
| ==]== | |||
| == Wikimania scholarships == | |||
| ] | |||
| Hi Jimmy — I received an email this morning from the Wikimania 2024 Scholarship Committee, led by {{usergc|K2suvi}}, rejecting my application. | |||
| ] | |||
| Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team. | |||
| Could you or your page watchers help me with ]? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites. | |||
| You may have come across ], which I link only to establish that my level of participation in Wikimedia projects is not considered borderline by the community here. | |||
| ], standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber]] | |||
| From past discussion with other editors, I understand that this outcome is not unusual — the scholarship committee, constrained by a budget that last year permitted them to accept ] of applicants, and following a rubric better-suited to affiliate/outreach work than on-wiki editing, routinely rejects even ] and other highly respected editors. | |||
| I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. ] (]) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :If Godber is not ], which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. ] (]) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::] is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? ] (]) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :::I dunno, but ] wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. ] (]) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| ::::And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". ] (]) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| *Godber's photographs include "views of the ] including large numbers of cars traveling to ], and the ]. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the ] Homestead in ] with scenes of farm life, including ], ] sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the ], ], ], the ], and the Hillside Railway Workshops); ] (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, ], ], ], ] and ]. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the ], and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the ], ], ] area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori ] and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." ] (]) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| *It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. ] (]) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :: If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. ] (]) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == == | |||
| In-person conferences provide a valuable opportunity to bring together the different parts of the movement and bridge some of the cultural divides that exist between them. Personally, the connections I have made at WikiConference North America have been invaluable, particularly for my work collaborating with foundation staff to inform the development of features like the ], which is using my ] as a model. I would have liked to expand and deepen those connections at Wikimania. | |||
| For the interested. ] (]) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| I recognize that travel scholarships aren't cheap. However, I find it deeply unfortunate — not just for myself, but for everyone similarly situated and for the resulting opportunity cost to the movement — that the foundation, belying its oft-repeated appreciation for the editor community, has chosen to devote so few of its considerable financial resources to enabling editors to join its flagship conference in person. | |||
| :Summary: {{tq|This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies.}} –] <small>(])</small> 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| Given your own role at Wikimania and influence as a trustee over the foundation's budget, I am interested to hear your thoughts on this topic. Also pinging @] and @] as the respective Lead and Communications Lead for the conference. | |||
| == Happy new year == | |||
| Regards, <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 22:09, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? ] 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :Hey @], thank you for your ping. | |||
| :You are raising an important matter that the ] (and all past COTs) is well aware of and is actively trying to combat. Wikimedia conferences are an important space of celebration and knowledge exchange in our Movement and we wish all of the community members could attend them. As much as we would want to, unfortunately, we don’t have resources to offer a scholarship to all of the deserving volunteers. This year the acceptance rate is 15 times less than the number of Wikimedians who applied for the scholarship, in spite of having increased from 2023 the total number of scholarships granted. For 2024 we have shifted our resources to awarding more partial scholarships to the people in the region (]), but even then, we still had to reject many well-prepared and worthy applicants. | |||
| :We are working with the WMF to stretch the resources we were given, so the maximum number of scholars can benefit from the conference. I can already share with you that for 2024 we are looking to send a record number of at least 230 scholars to Wikimania, but even this number (almost double from 2019 and 20% more than in 2023) doesn’t allow us to send everyone we would have loved to see at the conference. The Wikimedia Foundation will continue to subsidize the in person ticket and cover all costs related to the virtual event – it will remain free to attend virtually. | |||
| :In the next few weeks and months, we will be publishing data about the scholarship process. We would like to publish several “lessons learned”, both for the community and future organizers and useful resources for future applicants (including a few best-scored applications from this year and general comments that should be useful in application preparing for future Wikimanias and other conferences). | |||
| :If you have any more questions about this year’s process, please watch the page ] where we will publish more information. Please feel free to reach out to me as well if you’d like. | |||
| :Cheers, ] (]) 21:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Thanks for the detailed response. Sounds like the # of scholarships last year was around 200 and this year is around 230, and that a very large # of editors apply. Do you happen to know the total number of applicants last year and this year? Just to get an idea. –] <small>(])</small> 21:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Hey @]! | |||
| :::Last year 1,206 applications were moved to the grading phase. For Wikimania 2024 there were 1,433 applications that the scholarship working group worked on. In addition to that, there were many more (majority) that were discarded in earlier phases or on technical basis (e.g. banned users, unfinished applications, partially blank, single words answers etc), so they were not graded by our team. If you are interested, more detailed information and stats will be published on Wikimania wiki in the next few weeks and months. ] (]) 13:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Great info. Thank you. So this year it was about 230/1433 = 16%, or approximately 1 in 7. Yeah, pretty competitive. –] <small>(])</small> 13:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::I've left a note at Nadzik's talk page wondering the exact amount allocated for these 230 scholarships for Poland and other questions pertaining to funding conferences. Thanks for this ongoing discussion (had also left a note at {{u|Skdb}}'s talk page a few days ago). Is there still time to increase the number of scholarships to the Poland conference? ] (]) 13:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :While it would be great if the WMF had infinite resources, I personally think it would be best if the WMF spent less on conferences—and more on things like the community wishlist that benefit readers and editors who don't go to meetups. (] · ]) ''']''' 19:29, 12 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I agree that the foundation ought to be spending more on community priorities. Conferences are an opportunity for us to advocate for those priorities and build relationships with foundation staff that bring our priorities into better alignment — but that can only happen if we are present. <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 19:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::My experience is that conferences and meetups are very, very important for building community and collaborative relationships. | |||
| :::The technology for editing this website works pretty well. It's the human relationships aspect of the community that is much, much more challenging! This online environment can become quite unpleasant sometimes, and many editors leave as a result. | |||
| :::We really need more scholarships to encourage the editors who are creating quality content. ] (]) 15:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] <small>'''Bumping thread'''. {{u|Jimbo Wales}}, I am interested to hear your thoughts on this topic. <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 16:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)</small><!-- ] 16:06, 3 May 2024 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1714752375}} | |||
| ::Hi, @Skdb, I can only say that I'd like to see the budget for scholarships to Wikimania increased. It's an incredibly valuable event and I think it's important that people can come regardless of their personal situation. We'll never be able to bring everyone, of course, but I think it's a very important thing for our movement for people to get together face to face.--] (]) 10:18, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :In case anyone's feeling down about not being selected, I'll disclose that I've been rejected every time I've applied (7 times, I think)? :) I was offered a partial scholarship once, but that omits the most expensive part of the trip (I must've accidentally indicated an interest in a partial scholarship or didn't realize how partial it was). Though it's possible that my particular combination of contributions over the years just aren't sufficiently valuable to the people who run Wikimania or that some of the many people even more active than I am also applied, it's more likely a reflection of a pretty standard expectation for grant-funded conferences: to maximize the number of attendees and number of scholarship recipients distributed from a fixed amount of money. It's not a phenomenon unique to Wikimania that nearby applicants are prioritized <small>(although requiring recipients to share a small hotel room with a stranger isn't something I've seen outside the wiki world, but that may just be a personal bugbear)</small>.<br/>If I apply and say "I need lodging and airfare from the other side of the world" and someone else says "I need money for a cab ride and will stay with a relative", I can't imagine it matters ''too'' much how involved each of us are or how eloquent our application answers were when deciding who gets the scholarship. They both increase the participation and scholarship numbers by one, which is important to a lot of grantmaking orgs as well as conference organizers.<br/>I know that it's easy to sound cynical when talking about metrics, so to be clear there ''is'' a lot to be said for maximizing attendance as well as for using big events to prioritize the local communities over distant contributors. Inviting as many people as possible from in and around Poland this year, for example, could seriously catalyze activities/membership in that area. But I guess I always thought of Wikimania in particular (as opposed to more locally oriented wiki-related events) as ''intended'' to be as international and diverse as possible, with as much representation from around the world as possible. In that case I would think that grantees for Wikimania in particular wouldn't be held to the same expectations that most other conferences are. One way to prioritize the international character might be to move the scholarship selection from the Wikimania organizers to affiliates or hubs (plus a pool for people who live in an area with no such body), and then simply tell e.g. Wikimedia Mexico and Wikimedia Sweden that they can each send 3 people using any transparent process that bases selection on some combination of involvement and need (rather than giving them a pot of money to maximize). — <samp>] <sup style="font-size:80%;">]</sup></samp> \\ 16:41, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Anyone who has to send you a rejection letter should be cowering in embarrassment, Rhododendrites. A process that does not recognize you as a highly respected, highly active contributor with a ton to offer Wikimania is a blatantly flawed process. <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 17:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Wikimania scholarship hotel rooms are solo nowadays. I think the number of scholarships awarded last year was around 200, the highest ever at the time. But I think the problem is that they receive over 1,000 applications. –] <small>(])</small> 22:14, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *Upping the scholarships to 800 for each worldwide and each regional conference (North American, India, etc.) and fully funding at least one evening "banquet" for the regionals (even if a very good boxed catered affair) with a couple of major speakers and entertainment (a good comedian goes a long way) seems one logical option. Even 800 scholarships seems low to me when looking at it as both a full conference and a celebration of the volunteers. Most individuals think they are giving to Misplaced Pages, not Wikimedia, which most have never heard of, so the elephant in the room is that Wikipedians create the elephant. As for the 2026 25th anniversary conferences, a thousand scholarships is a nice number. Let's find one billionaire who understands the concepts, and who will gladly fund all of these on a yearly basis. ] (]) 12:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:There are more considerations however. More people == more expensive. Organising an event over a 1000 people is really complex and basically requires a year's worth of setup. A money reserve that allows you to cancel that event 2 years in a row (on the day of the event, total loss). You need cities that are easy to travel too (good airports and connections), have active local wiki communities, are relatively safe, without prosecution of minorities, and working visa processes (a shorter list than most ppl think). Venues with lecture halls for that many people (incl. power, wifi, catering, access checks, video setups etc etc) that have plenty of hotels and restaurants nearby. The list of requirements goes on and on. The side effect of making regional conferences the size of wikimania, might just be that they might become unmanageable and have to be cancelled more often than they are held. (Disclosure, I have never been sponsored for wikimania, but attended multiple times on my own. I was sponsored several times for wikimedia developer events up to 2015, after which I decided I would no longer apply). —] (] • ]) 13:05, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::Yes, you are describing a real conference, comparable to major conferences of other well-known and respected organizations. If set up a couple years ahead of time (I'll mention my idea again as an example: VivaWikiVegas26 for the 25th anniversary North American conference) would work with orgnizational help from Wikimedia personnel, very likely in-kind donations from a major hotel chain (MGM runs most of the Vegas strip, a phone call or sit down with you, Jimbo, may not only obtain a donation of individual and conference rooms and sites but much more...Vegas is the home port of many major entertainers, some of whom may be willing to both entertain and speak at the conference of how their Misplaced Pages article affects their career), this is both doable and practical. ] (]) 13:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::But we and our event, have no commercial value to almost anyone. And even if a company wants to cover a major part of the costs, they are very likely to get into some sort of argument with our own community. I can already see the signpost articles, helpfully forwarded by Andreas to multiple major newspapers. We (our community) are a brand risk more than we add value unfortunately. You can't sell us stuff, we won't work for them, there's not enough of us and they can't use our name in their commercial activities. Why would you pay millions in a tough financial climate for that? —] (] • ]) 13:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::Why do it? Because volunteers, Wikipedians, create this thing on a second-by-second basis. Misplaced Pages (and by extension, the WMF) is the respected entity which attracts those millions of dollars and keeps WMF personal employed. Respecting the volunteers by recognizing them in this way is maybe the least WMF can do. <small>(Please also read the discussion at the Village Pump WMF page, thanks.)</small> ] (]) 14:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::I was specifically responding to your suggestion of having MGM and other commercial entities pay for it. —] (] • ]) 14:18, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::Sorry, missed that. MGM donating the rooms, or at least a large portion of the expense, would be both an in-kind tax-deductible donation to a respected non-profit entity but would show corporate respect for what Misplaced Pages has become. We should all be aware that volunteers and paid staff have created something unique in history and unique in volunteer-experimentation, and many more people than us realize it. Some of those people may be among the corporate heads of, for example, MGM, and would be glad to host and donate to such an event in one of their Vegas strip hotels (the strip rather than downtown Vegas seems the place to celebrate the 25th anniversary). ] (]) 14:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::{{u|TheDJ}} and Jimbo Wales, it looks like Kathryn Maher may soon be free of her current job, maybe WMF can ask her at that point to have meetings with some of the billionaires to obtain further funding for both the WMF and Misplaced Pages projects. Proposed Misplaced Pages projects, and the conferences, should be funded to the hilt and then some (over the hilt?). Can you please ping some of the people who are in the position to make these funding decisions, thanks. ] (]) 12:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::I find this very distasteful. —] (] • ]) 13:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::::Why? She is a wonderful communicator and would be a great person to have those one-on-one meetings with a few funders. I'm not suggesting that she come on-board again full time, but, if her time does open up a bit, have a few meetings in order to assist WMF and Misplaced Pages with the fundraising for the many projects that Wikipedians have proposed, including the extension of enhanced conferences to include scholarships for many more volunteers. She was the second Wikipedian I met in person, this was at 2017 Montreal conference where I was purposely introduced to her by the first Wikipedian I met in person, and immediately noticed her fine communication skills. ] (]) 14:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::::::It seems important that Wikipedians should not lessen Maher's accomplishments and potential but, if the occasion arises, ask her to use her talents for a couple of days or weeks to help raise the funds to, specifically, up the conference scholarships to 800 or so per event (both worldwide and North American, etc.). Funds could also go to enlarging and enhancing each conference. These are important meeting places, and WMF should, as much as possible, involve Wikipedians in its funding thought-structure and plans. In any case, if she can't assist in this endeavor, please focus on other solutions to raise or deploy the needed funding which, as pointed out in all funding appeals, is raised by promoting the usefulness and uniqueness of the encyclopedia. It also seems important for English Misplaced Pages, in particular, to explain to critics that Maher (and hopefully she'll also further explain this to funders, the general public, etc.), had very little if any impact of how the volunteer editor base edited or edits articles, and thus almost no impact on the content of Misplaced Pages itself (for example, she has only made one edit to mainspace). Thanks. ] (]) 22:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Jimbo, you may or may not recall our conversation in Montreal at the 2017 conference, a conference which benefitted all attendees. I self-paid my plane and room, not on a scholarship, and meeting my first Wikipedian (with my first words being "I thought you were a bot!") and him introducing me to Kathryn Maher (the second Wikipedian I met in person) who we then engaged in a worthwhile and hopefully project beneficial conversation, was alone worth the expense. Just imagine how much would be accomplished at each conference with at least 800 scholarships to go along with fuller and enhanced programs, programs which would likely attract hundreds of more attendees. North American Conferences, for example, attended by 1000 people, would create intrinsic and real-time value far beyond the use of scholarship funding. In person conversations, as you know, usually accomplish more in five minutes than hours of on-line back and forth discussion, so WMF adding many more scholarships would not only further recognize the work of volunteers, but, as importantly, would benefit the projects immensely. ] (]) 12:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == == | |||
| == Emails == | |||
| That doesn't sound good. From '']''. ] (]) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| Hi, it's come to my attention that you are emailing other Wikipedians as well. I would suggest you not ask for personal information initially or make it clear to people that they don't have to share it if they're uncomfortable with doing so because as I said earlier, most Wikipedians are more hesitant about this sort of thing. To the extent that people's initial reaction can be to be worried if your account is compromised (I know I actually asked a few other admins at the time you emailed me weeks ago, because getting a personal email from Jimbo falls into the "is this really happening?" territory). Anyways, just wanted to reemphasize the fact that most Wikipedians value their privacy and would find those questions to be invasive. ] ] 10:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Hi, I'm definitely not asking for any personal information! I'm letting them know that if we do interview them, we will ask personal information - that's so they can say no if they aren't comfortable, rather than having it be awkward on a video call. I'll make that clearer!--] (]) 16:00, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Being discussed at ]. ] (]) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == Template == | |||
| ::Thanks! ] (]) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::Also discussed at ] and ]. ] (]) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to from {{u|Tryptofish}}? | |||
| {{tlx|Jimbo Wales}} Hello @], did u like the template I made? ]<sup>]</sup> 14:33, 23 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, {{u|Jimbo Wales}} will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than ] was. | |||
| :Can I add this template to ur user page? ]<sup>]</sup> 15:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage ''et al.'' is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --] (]) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::At least he saw me. {{smiley}} ]<sup>]</sup> 12:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face. | |||
| == Do you believe lists of aircraft, tanks, and ships should have pictures? == | |||
| :As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--] (]) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| ::Suddenly ] going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. ] (]) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| :::{{tq|That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.}} Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. ] (]) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| Apparently there was a vote on a wikiproject back in 2015, 4 wanted to eliminate all pictures in list articles, and 1 voted against it. Do you have an opinion on this? I believe almanacs include pictures of things in their stat lists. One of the many articles in question: Does listing stats about every type of aircraft without a picture, help people understand things better than it would with a picture? ] 08:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I don't have a strong opinion but I definitely thank that a 4-1 vote in 2015 is not really binding on us today, if someone wants to reopen the discussion and hold a new vote that's probably perfectly fine.--] (]) 23:36, 24 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::] I went ahead and did this. Lists of people and lists of buildings, and lists of other things have pictures in their lists. I can't understand why lists for anything wouldn't have them. But discussion opened there to get more people to discuss it and state their points of view. ] 00:29, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::They certainly should not be prohibited from having pictures. And list articles is a huge topic, something that would not get decided by 4 folks at a project. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Or at any WikiProject, full stop. ]. ] (]) 02:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Make sure you keep the articles accessible guys...]. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">]</span>🍁 02:34, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *Please take the discussion to the proper place. ] ] 02:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| **If you're looking to establish a broader consensus, take it to the Village Pump, not another niche WikiProject discussion. — <samp>] <sup style="font-size:80%;">]</sup></samp> \\ 02:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on ] about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">]]</span> 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| == ''The Signpost'': 25 April 2024 == | |||
| == ''The Signpost'': 15 January 2025 == | |||
| <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-04-25}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 6--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 11:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div> | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1220541483 --> | |||
| <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2025-01-15}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 1--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 07:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div> | |||
| == Hello Jimbo! == | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1269316164 --> | |||
| What do you think of Bekoshisht? He is a Fandom user. ] (]) 19:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I don't know anything about it, actually. ] (]) 09:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 17:05, 16 January 2025
| Welcome to my talk page. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end. Start a new talk topic. |
 | Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an open door policy. He holds the founder's seat on the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees. The current trustees occupying "community-selected" seats are Rosiestep, Laurentius, Victoria and Pundit. The Wikimedia Foundation's Lead Manager of Trust and Safety is Jan Eissfeldt. |
| This page is semi-protected and you will not be able to leave a message here unless you are a registered editor. Instead, you can leave a message here |
 | This user talk page might be watched by friendly talk page stalkers, which means that someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated. |
 | This talkpage has been mentioned by a media organization:
|
Centralized discussion
For a listing of ongoing discussions, see the dashboard.Albert Percy Godber
Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.
Could you or your page watchers help me with Draft:Albert Percy Godber? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.
I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
- If Godber is not WP:NOTABLE, which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. Polygnotus (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
- I dunno, but User:Sulfurboy wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. Polygnotus (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
- user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
- And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". FloridaArmy (talk) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Godber's photographs include "views of the Hutt Valley including large numbers of cars traveling to Trentham Racecourse, and the Hutt River. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the Mendip Hills Homestead in Canterbury, New Zealand with scenes of farm life, including haymaking, merino sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the Ross Reservoir, Otago Boys' High School, Seacliff Mental Hospital, the 1926 Dunedin Exhibition, and the Hillside Railway Workshops); Invercargill (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, Moeraki, Tuatapere, Waiau River, Oamaru and Port Chalmers. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the Burnside Iron Mills, and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the Piha, Karekare, Anawhata area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori marae and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." FloridaArmy (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. Here's a link to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
- If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. Carrite (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
Requests for comment/Severe Problems in hewiki
For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- Summary:
This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies.
–Novem Linguae (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Happy new year
Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? -Lemonaka 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
Scoop: Heritage Foundation plans to ‘identify and target’ Misplaced Pages editors
That doesn't sound good. From The Forward. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors. CMD (talk) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
- Also discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence#Edit_request and Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Heritage_Foundation_planning_to_dox_Wikipedia_editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to these concerns from Tryptofish?
- ... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, Jimbo Wales will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than Claudine Gay was.
- Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage et al. is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
Sita Bose (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
- Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
- As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
- Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. BusterD (talk) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image?
Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image? about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. BarntToust 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
The Signpost: 15 January 2025
- From the editors: Looking back, looking forward
- Traffic report: The most viewed articles of 2024
- In the media: Will you be targeted?
- Technology report: New Calculator template brings interactivity at last
- Opinion: Reflections one score hence
- Serendipity: What we've left behind, and where we want to go next
- Arbitration report: Analyzing commonalities of some contentious topics