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== Number of muslims in Europe == == Citation to add for Early history ==
For "The first recorded usage of Eurṓpē as a geographic term is in the Homeric Hymn to Delian Apollo:"


https://en.wikipedia.org/Homeric_Hymns has the date of publication as 522 BCE, "Burkert 1979, p. 61; Graziosi 2002, p. 206; Nagy 2011, pp. 286–287."
The article says 17.9% of European population is muslim, that would be around 135 million people. The source cited to support this information and also other articles on wikipedia itself (see ‘muslims in Europe’) clearly state that they are around 45 million, so around 6% ] (]) 09:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


Burkert, Walter (1979). "Kynaithos, Polycrates, and the Homeric Hymn to Apollo". In Bowersock, Glen W.; Burkert, Walter; Putnam, Michael C. J. (eds.). Arktouros: Hellenic Studies Presented to Bernard M. W. Knox on the Occasion of his 65th Birthday. Berlin: de Gruyter. pp. 53–62. ISBN 9783110077988.
== Mention climate change? ==


Graziosi, Barbara (2002). Inventing Homer: The Early Reception of Epic. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521809665.
So far the article does not mention climate change once. How would people feel if I added an excerpt to ] to this article, perhaps below the section on "climate"? I think an excerpt is better than new text because this is something that will continually change over time, and would then have to be updated in two places, not just one. Compare also with how it's done for the ] article. Pinging ] and ] for comment. ] (]) 11:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''No strong opinion''' Though transclusions are often read clumsily when inserted, and tend to bloat the length of destination articles, this is article is a reasonable target for a transclusion. —<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;color:dark blue;background-color:transparent;;">] (])</span> 15:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::No excerpts, please – it's a total pain to have to go to some completely other page to edit the content of an article. Why not just write or copy over a sentence or two of content that is directly relevant to the continent of Europe and nowhere else (if there is any?). ] (]) 19:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::: Excerpts are a brilliant tool for any content that is likely to change over time, in the near future. So rather than updating the content in several places, it just needs to be updated in the source article (] in this case) and is automatically updated in any other article where the content is used. We use them a lot in WikiProject Climate Change as some of the figures are continually going up or down (think ], ], global surface temperatures, CO2 in the atmosphere etc.). See e.g. the way excerpts are used at ]. So I don't think they are a "total pain", quite the contrary.
::: For this case here, we can still ponder if it's better to just copy two general sentences across, perhaps those that do not contain numbers. In any case, do folks agree that it would be fair to say something about climate change in Europe in the ] article? ] (]) 22:13, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
⚫ ::::Europe's warming temperature and heatwaves probably merit some coverage in the Climate section. ] (]) 02:38, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Because later someone will likely update one of the articles but not the other which will get out of date ] (]) 14:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
* I've added the excerpt now (2 paragraphs) in a section on "climate change" as I didn't see strong opposition to it / no continuation of the discussion. I can't figure out why there is no paragraph break between the two paragraphs though. ] (]) 12:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


Nagy, Gregory (2011). "Reception of the Homeric Hymns". In Faulkner, Andrew (ed.). The Homeric Hymns: Interpretative Essays. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 280–333. ISBN 9780199589036. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)</small>
⚫ == Russia is not in Europe. ==


== Europe page ==
This article mentions that Russia is a part of Europe but last I checked , it was a part of Asia.If Russia used to be in Europe , then I would have excused this mistake but it was NEVER part of Europe.Any thoughts? ] (]) 12:41, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Wiki, if you're mentioning the Caucasian countries Georgia and Azerbaijan, why not mentioned the 3 rd republic "Armenia". ] (]) 02:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


⚫ :Armenia is mentioned at a couple of points in the article. ] (]) 04:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
:Russia is a ] and the part of Russia situated in Europe is literally called ]. Depending on the continent model you're using, it is wholly situated in ] if the model doesn't regard Europe and Asia as separate continents. –] (]) 13:15, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:The last you checked ''where''? Europe doesn't end at the Russian border. Moscow is in Europe. St. Petersburg is in Europe. And, if you look at ], the piece of Russia wedged between Lithuania and Poland, where do you think it is? ] (]) 13:18, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:Although Russia lies both in Asia and Europe, it is generally listed as a European country, at least politically, since it's capital Moscow lies in Europe. ] (]) 13:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
::Um Russia is culturally European as well. It is mostly populated by Slavs. And Russia is the largest country in Europe. ] (]) 05:43, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:Before 1600 all of Russia was in Europe so clearly a fully European country then, and still the majority of the population (~70%) lives in the European part. So Russian history and population support a predominantly European classification of Russia (although the area in Asia is larger, it is thinly populated). ] (]) 15:22, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:Someone doesn't know geography! Russia has always been part of Europe. They conquered Siberia in the 16th century. ] (]) 05:46, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


:Armenia is only "culturally" European (i.e. they think they are European). The country is located entirely south of the Greater Caucasus Mountains, it is geographically a part of Asia. ] (]) 05:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
== Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2024 ==
::Please read the FAQ above. While Armenia is indeed ''geographically'' in West Asia, there are numerous political and geopolitical definitions which place Armenia (and also Cyprus) within a "wider Europe". There are also a few geographical definitions which place the ] region either entirely or partially within Europe. It depends on which definition is used, but generally speaking, Misplaced Pages uses the most expansive definitions in inclusion criteria's for Asia and Europe. That is why Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Cyprus, Russia, Turkey, and to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan are mentioned in both Asia and Europe related articles and lists, with notes accompanying them to clarify their physical geography, versus their geopolitical and cultural adherence to either/both continents. This impartial stance has been the norm here for about a decade. Regards, ] (]) 18:21, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Basically, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Cyprus, Russia, Turkey, and to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan are a bunch of Asian countries wanna be seen as European countries. If we use the ]'s definition of Europe, even the ] is a part of Asia. Hence, according to the British sources, the area of Europe is only approx. 10 million square kilometres.
:::End of this debate. ] (]) 14:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)


⚫ == Area of Europe ==
{{edit semi-protected|Europe|answered=yes}}
There is error Cyprus is not included in the map but its included in the list of countries so either add Cyprus to the map or remove Cyprus from the list of countries ] (]) 22:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


What is the exact area of Europe? According to this article, it is 10,186,000 sq. km, but according to the ] in my local library, it is 9,908,599 sq. km (they counted to the single digits!). Why are there a big difference between these sources? ] (]) 05:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
:I stopped counting maps at 14, would you mind posting the filename of the one you're referring to? - <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">] <small>(])</small></span> 22:39, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
::They are the 2 maps on top the file names are https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_(with_borders).svg and https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary.svg ] (]) 22:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
:] '''Note:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> The list also contains countries such as Turkey and Kazakhstan. Both of which have some territory in Europe but are largely considered Asian. <code><nowiki>''']'''<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki></code> (]<nowiki>|</nowiki>]) 23:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
⚫ ::The article explains the different conceptions of "Europe", obviously these conceptions don't align perfectly. ] (]) 04:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)


⚫ :Area will differ based on different definitions of Europe. ] (]) 08:08, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
== Confusing explanation of etymology ==
:Because the Collins World Atlas is published by the British. They have included the ] as a part of Asia. ] (]) 14:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)


== Armenia again ==
The "Name" section reads confusedly, without a proper flow or connection between the various statements. The first paragraph seems to imply, without making the development of meaning clear, that "Europe" derives from "Evros", as a fact. The explanation then restarts with reference to "Europa", with no explanation of how, if at all, this is related to what was previously said. It's all a bit muddled. If there are various theories then the section needs to begin by saying this. There are various theories, which are ... etc. etc. Also, there is a typo "it self" for "itself". ] (]) 22:45, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I see that I should have noted that the consensus ''is'' firmly established to include Armenia in the article for reasons given in a note. But therein lies the problem. The note reads "Armenia can be considered part of Eastern Europe or West Asia; it has strong historical and sociopolitical connections with Europe. The population and area figures include the entire state, respectively." This is just as much a justification for including Australia and Canada in the article, not making it clear at all why they're different. Since they aren't, this makes the justification look specious and ''ad hoc'' as though it's really being given only for the purpose of placating some group of people. This isn't a great impression for a Misplaced Pages article to give. At the moment, I'm not arguing one way or the about Armenia's inclusion but that the way it's been included looks almost like an acknowledgement that it doesn't really belong. ] (]) 18:46, 7 December 2024 (UTC)


:As a standalone it might give that impression, but it comes after the much earlier Definition section which should provide a reader a reasonably clear understanding of the issue of Europe's 'borders'. Would an internal link, eg. "]", help? ] (]) 06:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
== About the name of Europe ==


:Well, most countries outside Europe classify the countries of the ] region as Asian countries instead of European countries. The only one which classify these countries as European countries are themselves.
I am placing here from ]:
:The same can be said of Cypus and Turkey, and to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan. ] (]) 14:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
: The Ancient Bulgarian name of Sofia as Sredetz can be read as "in between" or "in midst" of the Balkans for example, and sometimes it is interpreted to have arized from the Greek Serdika of Tracian or Greek tribe Serds, but rather these can be translations in Greek language for the needs of the nearby Greek state of the name of the Ancient Bulgarian town of Sredetz.

But the Greek translation of Sredetz or "in midst" can be vewied as also similar to the name of Euridike, Euridyce (Ancient Greek: Εὐρυδίκη) which can be seen as the origination of the name of Europe with the adding of the morphological suffix of Penelope.
== Is the Turkish peninsula west of Istanbul considered Europe? ==
:

I want to point out that neither Serdika nor Euridike or Europe (as of Penelope naming styling in Greek language) are related to Maritza river specifically but rather to many rivers in the Balkans and near or in Greece, as in the Balkans are found a lot of rivers. - writing you from Sofia ] (]) 14:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Europe orthographic Caucasus Urals boundary (with borders):
https://en.wikipedia.org/Europe#/media/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_(with_borders).svg

Just asking, thanks. ] (]) 19:10, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:Yes it is considered Europe (as is also clear from the opening lines of the ] article.) ] (]) 20:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:Yes, ] is a part of Europe, but it is a geographical region, not a ]. ] (]) 07:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 19:37, 24 December 2024

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Citation to add for Early history

For "The first recorded usage of Eurṓpē as a geographic term is in the Homeric Hymn to Delian Apollo:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/Homeric_Hymns has the date of publication as 522 BCE, "Burkert 1979, p. 61; Graziosi 2002, p. 206; Nagy 2011, pp. 286–287."

Burkert, Walter (1979). "Kynaithos, Polycrates, and the Homeric Hymn to Apollo". In Bowersock, Glen W.; Burkert, Walter; Putnam, Michael C. J. (eds.). Arktouros: Hellenic Studies Presented to Bernard M. W. Knox on the Occasion of his 65th Birthday. Berlin: de Gruyter. pp. 53–62. ISBN 9783110077988.

Graziosi, Barbara (2002). Inventing Homer: The Early Reception of Epic. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521809665.

Nagy, Gregory (2011). "Reception of the Homeric Hymns". In Faulkner, Andrew (ed.). The Homeric Hymns: Interpretative Essays. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 280–333. ISBN 9780199589036. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Winspiff (talk • contribs) 23:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Europe page

Wiki, if you're mentioning the Caucasian countries Georgia and Azerbaijan, why not mentioned the 3 rd republic "Armenia". Sarocard (talk) 02:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Armenia is mentioned at a couple of points in the article. CMD (talk) 04:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Armenia is only "culturally" European (i.e. they think they are European). The country is located entirely south of the Greater Caucasus Mountains, it is geographically a part of Asia. 120.16.170.140 (talk) 05:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Please read the FAQ above. While Armenia is indeed geographically in West Asia, there are numerous political and geopolitical definitions which place Armenia (and also Cyprus) within a "wider Europe". There are also a few geographical definitions which place the South Caucasus region either entirely or partially within Europe. It depends on which definition is used, but generally speaking, Misplaced Pages uses the most expansive definitions in inclusion criteria's for Asia and Europe. That is why Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Cyprus, Russia, Turkey, and to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan are mentioned in both Asia and Europe related articles and lists, with notes accompanying them to clarify their physical geography, versus their geopolitical and cultural adherence to either/both continents. This impartial stance has been the norm here for about a decade. Regards, Archives908 (talk) 18:21, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Basically, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Cyprus, Russia, Turkey, and to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan are a bunch of Asian countries wanna be seen as European countries. If we use the Encyclopædia Britannica's definition of Europe, even the North Caucasus is a part of Asia. Hence, according to the British sources, the area of Europe is only approx. 10 million square kilometres.
End of this debate. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:F0F5:3D10:42B7:F29D (talk) 14:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Area of Europe

What is the exact area of Europe? According to this article, it is 10,186,000 sq. km, but according to the Collins World Atlas in my local library, it is 9,908,599 sq. km (they counted to the single digits!). Why are there a big difference between these sources? 120.16.170.140 (talk) 05:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Area will differ based on different definitions of Europe. CMD (talk) 08:08, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Because the Collins World Atlas is published by the British. They have included the North Caucasus as a part of Asia. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:F0F5:3D10:42B7:F29D (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Armenia again

I see that I should have noted that the consensus is firmly established to include Armenia in the article for reasons given in a note. But therein lies the problem. The note reads "Armenia can be considered part of Eastern Europe or West Asia; it has strong historical and sociopolitical connections with Europe. The population and area figures include the entire state, respectively." This is just as much a justification for including Australia and Canada in the article, not making it clear at all why they're different. Since they aren't, this makes the justification look specious and ad hoc as though it's really being given only for the purpose of placating some group of people. This isn't a great impression for a Misplaced Pages article to give. At the moment, I'm not arguing one way or the about Armenia's inclusion but that the way it's been included looks almost like an acknowledgement that it doesn't really belong. Largoplazo (talk) 18:46, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

As a standalone it might give that impression, but it comes after the much earlier Definition section which should provide a reader a reasonably clear understanding of the issue of Europe's 'borders'. Would an internal link, eg. "can be considered", help? CMD (talk) 06:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Well, most countries outside Europe classify the countries of the South Caucasus region as Asian countries instead of European countries. The only one which classify these countries as European countries are themselves.
The same can be said of Cypus and Turkey, and to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:F0F5:3D10:42B7:F29D (talk) 14:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Is the Turkish peninsula west of Istanbul considered Europe?

Europe orthographic Caucasus Urals boundary (with borders): https://en.wikipedia.org/Europe#/media/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_(with_borders).svg

Just asking, thanks. Teastain (talk) 19:10, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes it is considered Europe (as is also clear from the opening lines of the Turkey article.) Arnoutf (talk) 20:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, East Thrace is a part of Europe, but it is a geographical region, not a peninsula. 203.46.37.2 (talk) 07:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
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