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== Requests for project input ==


{{Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Military history/Requests for project input}}
== Good article reassessment for ] ==
] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] <sub> '']''</sub> 13:47, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


== Nominations for military history newcomer of the year for 2024 are open! ==
== Proposal: Improve citation format for ] database results ==
<!-- ] 00:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC) -->
<div style="text-align: center;"><span class="plainlinks" style="font-size:2.50em; font-weight: bold; width:100%; height: 100px; line-height: 50px; font-weight: bold; font-family: helvetica, impact, sans-serif; text-decoration: none; "><span style="color:#6e98c2">Military history newcomer </span> ] <span style="color:#6e98c2"> of the year 2024</span></span></div>


<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><span id="MHNOTY"><gallery widths="60px" heights="60px" perrow="3">
Most members of this project are probably familiar with SIPRI's , a vital source for information on the international movement of military equipment that is used in thousands of articles on Misplaced Pages. However, citing the database is more difficult than with most web sources, because it does not provide permanent external links to specific data. Instead, all citations on Wiki link to one of the database's search pages. Anyone who wishes to double-check a claim sourced to SIPRI must typically determine, on their own, what search parameters will obtain useful and relevant data.
Image:Goldenwiki 2.png|''First place''
File:WikiprojectBarnstar.png|''Runners up''
</gallery></span></div>


As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. In addition to the Military historian of the year, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate a promising newcomer that they feel deserves a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months for the ]. The award is open to any editor who has become active in military history articles in the last 12 months.
I propose that we use the "at" parameter in the ] template to list SIPRI database search parameters, as in the following dummy citation:

* {{cite web
Like the Military Historian of the Year, the nomination process will begin at 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November 2024. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period will commence on 00:01 1 December 2024 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2024, the top editor will be awarded the Gold Wiki; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.
| url = https://armstransfers.sipri.org/ArmsTransfer/TransferData

| title = Arms Transfers Database: Transfer data
Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self-nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! On behalf of all the coordinators, ] ] 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
| author = <!--Not stated-->

| date = 0000-00-00
#{{user|CommissarDoggo}}: A new joiner to the project this year, their work includes bringing the American VC winner ] to GA and expanding ] from stub to B class. ] (]) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
| website = SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
#{{user|Matarisvan}}: Significant additions to Indian military history, a notoriously difficult topic on Misplaced Pages - they have also since been voted a coordinator of the WikiProject. ] (]) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
| publisher = ]
#{{user|Klutserke}}: Second World War naval history, including the significant expansion and re-writing of ] and the creation of articles including ]. ] (]) 21:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
| type = Searchable database
#{{user|Wahreit}}: Can I nominate Wahreit for extensive editing to ] articles like the ] and the ]. He joined Misplaced Pages in April 2024 and has done good work from the beginning. Oh and plus 25k to ] ] (]) 00:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
| at = Recipient QQQ, supplier RRR, weapon category CatPlaceholder, designation NamePlaceholder, order/delivery completion/delivery year from 0000 to 9999

| access-date = 0000-00-00
=== Voting===
| quote = (Quote goes here.)
Nominations for this year's "military history newcomer of the year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.
}}

The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done below by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to nominee's sections. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

All project members are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.

Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, ] ] 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
====CommissarDoggo====

# <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> (]<big>·</big>]<big>·</big>]) <span style="font-size:80%">Isn't a IP anon</span>
# ] (]) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 05:46, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 13:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

====Klutserke====
# ] (]) 11:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 15:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

====Matarisvan====
# ] (]) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] ] 04:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 07:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 11:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 19:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# - ] (]) 01:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 17:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

====Wahreit====
# ] (]) 11:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 13:41, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

== Nominations for military historian of the year for 2024 are open! ==

<!-- ] 00:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC) -->
<div style="text-align: center;"><span class="plainlinks" style="font-size:2.50em; font-weight: bold; width:100%; height: 100px; line-height: 50px; font-weight: bold; font-family: helvetica, impact, sans-serif; text-decoration: none; "><span style="color:#6e98c2">Military historian</span> ] <span style="color:#6e98c2">of the year 2024</span></span></div>

<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><span id="MHOTY"><gallery widths="60px" heights="60px" perrow="3">
Image:Goldenwiki 2.png|''First place''
Image:Silverwiki 2.png|''Second place''
Image:Bronzewiki 2.png|''Third place''
</gallery></span></div>

As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. As part of the first step to determining this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate those that they feel deserve a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months.

The nomination process will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period of will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 1 December during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 on 30 December, the top three editors will be awarded the Gold, Silver and Bronze Wiki respectively; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, ] ] 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

# {{user|noclador}}: Since 2005 has been working mainly on articles about the Italian Army. In 2023 started a project to write articles for all the Italian Army units active after WWII. Since August 2023 noclador has brought to B-class 298 articles about units of the Italian Army, of which 289 were created from scratch. Created 145 articles in 2023 and 2024. ] ] 18:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|MSGJ}}: Has worked on our ] and the ] ] and ] to implement changes required for our A-class reviews. ] ] 19:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
#:Thanks. A barn star would be appreciated but this nomination ... seems excessive &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 13:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|Zawed}}: Another year, another seemingly endless quantity of New Zealand-related articles. From the Second World War and articles such as ], to the 1869 ], Zawed consistently produces a variety of high quality content. ] (]) 21:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|Donner60}} - for extensive behind-the-scenes work as a coordinator, especially their tireless work with the assessment process. ] <sub> '']''</sub> 15:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|Pickersgill-Cunliffe}} - prodigious output of articles relating to British naval ships, e.g. ] and personalities, and also heavily involved in reviewing articles. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|Hog Farm}} - another editor with a strong article output, this time relating mostly to the US Civil war, e.g. ]. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|Hawkeye7}} - yet another editor with tremendous output, particularly in military logistics e.g. ]. Does a lot of backroom stuff for the project. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
# {{user|Simongraham}} - works away on naval ships, with many articles created and taken up to GA, e.g. ]. ] (]) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

===Voting===


Nominations for this year's "Military History Newcomer of the Year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.
Here is how the source code looks:
:<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext">{{cite web
| url = https://armstransfers.sipri.org/ArmsTransfer/TransferData
| title = Arms Transfers Database: Transfer data
| author = <!--Not stated-->
| date = 0000-00-00
| website = SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
| publisher = ]
| type = Searchable database
| at = Recipient QQQ, supplier RRR, weapon category CatPlaceholder, designation NamePlaceholder, order/delivery completion/delivery year from 0000 to 9999
| access-date = 0000-00-00
| quote = (Quote goes here.)
}}</syntaxhighlight>
<s>I will personally use this format, or future versions of it, whenever I cite SIPRI from now on.</s> ] (]) 21:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to the nominee's section below. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.
:Single records can be accessed directly using the final entityId:
* https://armstransfers.sipri.org/ArmsTransfer/TransferData/transferDetail?entityId=245233 (] ]) 22:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
*:Thanks for confirming this. I was not sure whether it was reproducible. ] (]) 22:21, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
*:It is possible that citing this way could require a large number of citations for a single statement. For instance, one sentence in the ] article currently reads thus: {{tq|Totally, when the ] broke out, Israel had 540 M48-series (with 105&nbsp;mm gun) and M60/M60A1 tanks.}} This single claim appears to rely on adding up the recorded number of vehicles received by Israel in at least , each of which would require its own citation using this method. There is also no way to show to a reader that any such series of citations includes all relevant entries from SIPRI, unless the reader searched the SIPRI database themself. ] (]) 00:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
:::It would probably be possible to create a "Cite SIPIRI" template, to accept multiple linkable entityId's per citation, but it would rely on SIPIRI not changing the access method - and it would still be a bit clunky for more than a few entries too. (] ]) 15:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
::::I tried our ideas at ]. What do you think? Not sure they really make sense together. ] (]) 19:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


All editors are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.
== ] in lists of wars between country A and country B? ==


Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, ] ] 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Dear colleagues, fellow military historians,


====Donner60====
Something has been bugging about these various Lists of wars between country A and country B. Some of them are decent and have proper sourcing, while others are full of ] ] / ], especially when it comes to identifying so-called "predecessor states" of countries A and B, centuries before A and B existed, and that from a legal point of view may not be "predecessor states" of A and B at all.
# ] ] 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Example:
# ] (]) 07:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
* ].
# ] (]) 15:55, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
** It's sensible to regard the ] and ] as predecessor of modern ]. In fact, it was just the Kingdom of Sweden this whole time. It's also fine to regard the ], ] and ] as predecessors of the present Russian Federation. But the ]? No. Novgorod was annexed by Moscow, and therefore wasn't a "predecessor" of "Russia".
# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
* ]
** This is a complicated article that probably deserves its own discussion. I've made some efforts to improve it myself, but I'm not sure about its future. In short, this just began as a DP helping readers to navigate between various articles called "Polish-Russian War"; the interwikis show that in other language Wikipedias this is still the case. But it has been expanded to include all supposed predecessors of "Poland" and "Russia". Again, what we call "Russia" here is quite doubtful. The ], which despite what many post-2014 publications might suggest, is very rarely called "Ruthenia", let alone "Russia", in historiography. (The trend to call Galicia-Volhynia "Kingdom of Ruthenia" seems to have begun no earlier than 2015, if you carefully search for it on Google Scholar and Google Books). Like Novgorod, it was never a predecessor of the modern RusFed, because it was annexed by Poland and Lithuania. All wars in that section have lots of issues (2 of them are currently in AfD). Simultaneously, the way the ] is identified as a predecessor state of Poland (exclusively) also raises questions, as its legacy has also been claimed by Lithuania and to a lesser extent Belarus and Ukraine. (Under international law, no successor state could probably be identified; everything after 1795 is arguably a new creation, such as the ]). And that is before we even start on identifying ] as a predecessor state of Russia as opposed to Ukraine (ideologically speaking the current ] is in no small part about claiming the legacy of that medieval state). A little more justifiable is considering the Soviet Union a predecessor of the RusFed, as it is generally recognised under international law to be so, with the RusFed inheriting all treaties signed by the USSR, and memberships in international organisations such as the United Nations. Therefore, the ] may reasonably be regarded as a war between "Poland" and "Russia".
* ] is perhaps a good example of how this type of article might work after all. The opposing belligerents of the 1918-1920 war could reasonably be identified as predecessors of the modern states, and thus no ] is being committed.
* Similarly, ] does not go back further than 1947, and seems a helpful and comprehensive overview.


====Hawkeye7====
So what we're getting is a mixed picture. There aren't many articles of the type {{xt|List of wars between Fooland and Barland}} yet (probably fewer than 10 at the moment). In some cases it seems really questionable how a list is set up, while in others it seems fine and even very helpful. Therefore, I think we should develop some kind of convention for this type of military history list, the do's and don'ts, both for improvement of the current articles, as well as standards that potential future articles should adhere to. As outlined above, I think we should look at this from a legal perspective: can the former country C be identified as the predecessor state of the current country A under international law? If not, then we should probably exclude C from a list of wars between country A and B. E.g. Galicia-Volhynia (which is in historiography is sometimes actually considered a predecessor state of modern Ukraine rather than Russia) should probably be excluded from the ]. Thoughts? ] (]) 05:11, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 05:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 07:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (])
# ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 14:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


====Hog Farm====
:@], I have a similar concern. We shouldn't neglect articles such as "X's campaign against Y," "A campaigns in B," or "X's military campaigns and expeditions." I regret having created or improved such articles in the past. For example, in the article ], the ], ], and even the ] are listed as belligerents. To a newcomer, or someone unfamiliar with the historical context, it might appear that these empires allied against ], which never happened.
# <span style="color:#7E790E;">2601AC47</span> (]<big>·</big>]<big>·</big>]) <span style="font-size:80%">Isn't a IP anon</span>
:Similarly, in articles like ], ], ], and ], many figures are grouped into a single belligerent/commander list, and presented with a single result, overlooking intermediate outcomes that differed from the presented result. Interestingly, most of the people listed in the infoboxes never even faced each other.
# ] (]) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
:These are just a few examples, but several campaign-type articles have been similarly distorted. I myself created the article ], inspired by other similar articles, and now regret if it misled viewers. We can find several other military campaign-type articles where multiple campaigns are combined into a single infobox, creating confusion. A solution is indeed required to prevent readers from being misled by the infobox, which currently distorting the actual context. It is not surprising that many military conflict-type articles have only a few lines of written context but a large, misleading infobox. ]</nowiki></sup></span>]] 07:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 19:43, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
::@] Thanks for your response! Indeed, newcomers may be encouraged to write such articles if they do not know how either Misplaced Pages or modern critical historiography works. Some of my first articles written on Dutch Misplaced Pages were about battles and campaigns, and only in hindsight I realised some of them were original research / ], because I frankly didn't know what those rules were until someone told me. ;)
::I agreed to have some of the worst articles deleted, nominating some of my own articles for deletion. Others I managed to salvage by better sourcing, rewriting or merging.
::It's very well possible that some of that what you and I did in our early editing days is also going on with these wars between A and B, or campaigns of C against D. Military history enthusiasts who write lots of stuff before understanding how Misplaced Pages works. (In case of the "wars" between "Poland" and Galicia-Volhynia, that editor wrote dozens of poorly sourced articles with a heavy bias, and he was blocked after only 3 months on Misplaced Pages, but some of his battle articles are still there).
::In general, I have been trying to split lists of wars involving modern countries and former countries, to prevent people claiming the modern country was also involved in alllll the wars of the country which no longer exists. This is why I created ], and I have been slowly populating it ever since. ] (]) 15:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
:::@] As an editor of South Asian military history, I've encountered many editors, who don't wait to hear us out, takes their articles to mainspace failing many guidelines, leading to their eventual blocking and subsequent meatpuppet or sockpuppet activity. Sadly it became common in India-Pakistan-Afghanistan TA. This behavior of editors, and personal attacks has caused me significant stress, leading to a Wikibreak and a halt in creating such articles. It would be better if a dedicated team could guide new military history editors and review their articles accordingly. Another issue is that new page reviewers from other WikiProjects are accepting AFCs too quickly without fact-checking. I'm pretty sure the majority of war-type articles are synthesized products. ]</nowiki></sup></span>]] 16:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I'm glad to hear that you have been trying to set the right example for others to follow! But I'm sad to hear that you have encounted much resistance from people who think they know everything there is to know, and that only their POV is "correct".
::::Incidentally, now that we're talking, would you be interested in looking at some of my edits on South Asian military history? I have been trying to document all ] in history, without engaging in ] or ]. That is not easy, especially outside of Europe, because although wars of succession are a universal phenomenon, the literature aboubt the term "war of succession" and theories about why they happened, how they went, and how various societies tried to settle or prevent such conflicts, is very euro-centric. Western scholars (and Wikipedians like myself) writing about wars of succession in the Indian subcontinent, for example, might (unconsciously or not) be influenced by a certain colonial or postcolonial bias. E.g. they might think it's "just like in Europe", or "worse than in Europe", without really understanding how conflicts played out in South Asia, and what they meant.
::::At ], you can see my attempts to document all I could find based on reliable sources and wherever possible linking to existing articles or sections.
::::At ], I have been describing all the relevant policies, guidelines and recommendations to ensure that we do not make things up, but write military history in accordance with how English Misplaced Pages is supposed to work. This is both a reminder to myself and to anyone else who would like to contribute. Good day. ] (]) 16:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::I really appreciate your attempts to expand the scope of MILHIST and thank you for your work on South Asian history. Wars of succession are indeed complicated in South Asian history throughout the ages, and we often face problems where sources contradict each other in their conclusions. Unfortunately, I can't spend much time on WP right now, as I am on a break within my Wikibreak. I hope to come back and contribute to such articles soon. Best regards. ]</nowiki></sup></span>]] 17:18, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::Enjoy your break, and perhaps we shall meet again another time! ] (]) 17:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
* Another thought related to this is that lately, I've begun to think we should prioritise listing ''battles by war'' rather than battles by country involved. If we put the country at the centre, we always risk getting a one-sided perspective (especially with the victory/defeat opposition, if not dichotomy), and taking the battles out of the contexts of the wars they were part of. Lists of wars involving (former) countries are probably worthwhile as overview articles, but lists of ''battles'' involving (former) countries should perhaps be avoided. ] (]) 06:07, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


====MSGJ====
== Dupe wl scanners question ==
# ] ] 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 14:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


====Noclador====
<nowiki>importScript('User:Evad37/duplinks-alt.js');</nowiki> isn't working properly, isn't there another one? Thanks ] (]) 17:43, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 19:42, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 12:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 17:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
#] (]) 14:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


====Pickersgill-Cunliffe====
:Yeah, I've noticed that as well lately - Evad's ''was'' the second one, when Ucucha's stopped working correctly years ago. Neither one of them appear to be particularly active recently, unfortunately. ] (]) 17:47, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
# ] ] 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
::I asked him to take a look but he hasn't answered, shame, I found it very useful. Regards ] (]) 18:32, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
:::It's very difficult to use now - hopefully they can fix one or the other. ] (]) 20:23, 18 June 2024 (UTC) # ] (]) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
::::see ] ] (]) 17:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC) # ] <sub> '']''</sub> 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)


====Simongraham====
== Assessment of Lists ==
# ] (]) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)


====Zawed====
Lately, I have come across the incorrect use of Start class to grade list articles. I fixed this error previously, but found it again with two articles I published in the past couple of days. As a reminder, list articles should be given the WP's list grading template, rather than the one used for "normal" articles.
# ] (]) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 11:53, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
# ] (]) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)


== Help needed for draft ==
This brings me to the bigger issue. The WikiProject Military History's assessment ratings options for list articles are quite extensive and currently call for what are considered "non-standard grades" according to ]. Quoting from ]: "WikiProject Lists limits class to FL, List, and Stub for articles". In fact, this WP has a bot that automatically changes incorrect class codes for reporting, such as those included in the WP MH assessment system. Yhus, I propose that WikiProject Military History update its assessment system to remove the non-standard grades for list articles and to use just Stub, List, and Feature List (FL) as per the Misplaced Pages general guidelines. ] (]) 19:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
: {{re|Rublamb}} Actually there is no assessment of lists due to lack of classes. I don't know why is that, and it doesn't make sense. ] (]) 20:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::@]: Do you mean within the WP rating template? If that is the case, you would just need to add one more option: Lists. (The only other grade really used in Misplaced Pages for list articles is Feature List (FL) which is rare and has an overding code, as with Feature Articles). Take a look at ], which does detail an assessment system. ] (]) 21:01, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:There is no start class for list articles; the project template should not allow it. Can you give me a couple of examples where this has occurred, so I can investigate? ] ] 21:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::Here are two:
::*]
::*]
::] (]) 00:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


I am currently working on a ], may I ask if anyone has any feedback or extra third-party sources on the unit?
== Inclusion of civilian owners as operators? ==


Also the article already ]. ] (]) 07:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
edit on ] has me wondering what, if any, space should be devoted within articles to notable private owners of vehicles, like tanks, that are unusual for civilians to own. Does it make sense to count them as "operators" of the equipment? It seems absurd to me, but am I jumping to conclusions? ] (]) 04:37, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


== AJ3 Tiger? ==
:That looks like spam to me. Whistlindiesel appears to be a person who makes stunt Youtube videos. I'm not sure you could have a blanket ban on civilian operators. For example, if a PMC or such operaterated vehicles, they could potentially be mentioned, in the same way as civilian contract operators of warplanes. But individuals owning vehicles in collections I think would be under survivors or preserved examples, as seen in some AFV articles. ] (]) 09:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:No, companies yes, as in commercial, operators, and maybe where the item is of historical importance, but not just general kit. ] (]) 10:05, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::I agree that private civilian ownership of a tank or any other militaria is not notable. It also has nothing to do with the use or military history of the piece. I might make an exception for a sole surviving example, perhaps even two or three survivors, as Slatersteven's mention of an item of historical importance suggests. Perhaps not relevant, I would be surprised if any such examples of historical importance would be in private hands rather than in a museum or retained by the military. ] (]) 05:54, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


about the ] mentions some firefighting aircraft, the last of which is described as "an AJ3 Tiger, a post war navy bomber". I'm baffled what that might be - neither the ] nor ] (originally A3J) seem likely. Does anywhere here have any clues? ] (]) 04:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
== How many galleys were at the ]? ==
: The only references to "AJ3 Tiger" I'm finding on the Internet appear to originate with that newspaper article, so I think it's probably an error in the original reporting. ] <sub> '']''</sub> 04:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:: I'd suspect it was a ], as several were used as water bombers by AJ Air Tankers, first flying missions during 1961. "AJ Tanker" could easily be corrupted into "AJ Tiger" depending on the quality of the draft writing, with the 3 coming from a scribbled AJ-2? - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Pi.1415926535}} And looking at this more - seeing as the source describes it as "a post-war navy bomber", it's all but certain that yeah, it's a North American AJ Savage! - ] <sub>]</sub> 05:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::* Good deal. That seems much more likely for a ''post''-war bomber to be in use around 1961. ] (]) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
::*:@]@]@]: Thank you all for your help! That seems very likely indeed. ] (]) 02:59, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


== Good article reassessment for ] ==
Please see {{sectionlink|Talk:Battle of Actium|How many galleys?}} for an issue that has existed since at least 2019. ]&nbsp;<sup>]]&nbsp;]]</sup> 05:25, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] (]) 23:12, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 23:12, 26 December 2024

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    Talk:Battle of the Java Sea#Recent edits changing scope of article

    An editor has effectively changed to scope of the article by incorporating subsequent engagements (with their own stand-alone articles) as being part of this battle. Further input would be welcome. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:11, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

    Discussion on the renaming of the article Allegations of United States support for the Khmer Rouge

    Please see here for a discussion about renaming Allegations of United States support for the Khmer Rouge to United States support for the Khmer Rouge. FOARP (talk) 17:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

    RFC on Russian invasion of Ukraine

    THere's currently a discussion about whether or not to include North Korea as a co-belligerent. Please feel free to comment. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 13:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

    Requested move at Talk:Peruvian Civil War of 1980–2000#Requested move 19 November 2024

    There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Peruvian Civil War of 1980–2000#Requested move 19 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 19:13, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

    Good article reassessment for Edwin of Northumbria

    Edwin of Northumbria has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

    Good article reassessment for Angevin kings of England

    Angevin kings of England has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Borsoka (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

    Requested move at Talk:RSM-56 Bulava#Requested move 3 November 2024

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    Requested move at Talk:Yemeni civil war (2014–present)#Requested move 7 December 2024

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    RM to lowercase North Yemen Civil War

    An ongoing RM to lowercase is at Talk:North Yemen Civil War#Requested move 28 November 2024. It has been relisted and may be of interest to editors of this WikiProject. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

    United Kingdom Special Forces has an RfC

    United Kingdom Special Forces has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Melbguy05 (talk) 07:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

    Requested move at Talk:Wahhabi War#Requested move 26 November 2024

    There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Wahhabi War#Requested move 26 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 17:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

    Requested move at Talk:2024 Manbij offensive#Requested move 9 December 2024

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    Requested move at Talk:Capture of Damascus#Requested move 9 December 2024

    There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Capture of Damascus#Requested move 9 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

    Talk:Second Nagorno-Karabakh War#RfC on inclusion of Syrian mercenaries in infobox

    Please see subject RfC. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

    Requested move at Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 18 November 2024

    There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 18 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

    Talk:Armenian-occupied territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh#Requested move 18 December 2024

    Please see subject discussion. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    Good article reassessment for Battle of Thermopylae

    Battle of Thermopylae has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 19:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    Talk:Second Nagorno-Karabakh War#Dubious tag

    The phrase disputed territory in the territory parameter of the infobox has been tagged as dubious. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Good article reassessment for 1st Brigade, 7th Infantry Division (United States)

    1st Brigade, 7th Infantry Division (United States) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm Talk 20:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    Good article reassessment for Mark Kellogg (reporter)

    Mark Kellogg (reporter) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    Nominations for military history newcomer of the year for 2024 are open!

    Military history newcomer of the year 2024
    • First place First place
    • Runners up Runners up

    As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. In addition to the Military historian of the year, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate a promising newcomer that they feel deserves a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months for the Military history newcomer of the year award. The award is open to any editor who has become active in military history articles in the last 12 months.

    Like the Military Historian of the Year, the nomination process will begin at 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November 2024. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period will commence on 00:01 1 December 2024 during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 30 December 2024, the top editor will be awarded the Gold Wiki; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

    Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self-nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! On behalf of all the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

    1. CommissarDoggo (talk · contribs): A new joiner to the project this year, their work includes bringing the American VC winner William Henry Harrison Seeley to GA and expanding Michael Wettlaufer from stub to B class. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Matarisvan (talk · contribs): Significant additions to Indian military history, a notoriously difficult topic on Misplaced Pages - they have also since been voted a coordinator of the WikiProject. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. Klutserke (talk · contribs): Second World War naval history, including the significant expansion and re-writing of HMS Sheffield (C24) and the creation of articles including 8.8 cm SK C/25 naval gun. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
    4. Wahreit (talk · contribs): Can I nominate Wahreit for extensive editing to Second Sino-Japanese War articles like the Battle of Shanghai and the Battle of Sihang Warehouse. He joined Misplaced Pages in April 2024 and has done good work from the beginning. Oh and plus 25k to Battle of Nanking Alexysun (talk) 00:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

    Voting

    Nominations for this year's "military history newcomer of the year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

    The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done below by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (~~~~) to nominee's sections. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

    All project members are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.

    Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

    CommissarDoggo

    1. 2601AC47 (talk·contribs·my rights) Isn't a IP anon
    2. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. Wiki king 100000 (talk) 05:46, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    4. Internationed (talk) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
    5. Kerbyki (talk) 13:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Klutserke

    1. Parsecboy (talk) 11:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Kierzek (talk) 15:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

    Matarisvan

    1. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 07:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    4. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 11:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    5. Donner60 (talk) 19:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    6. - Ratnahastin (talk) 01:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
    7. Hog Farm Talk 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
    8. TheRazgriz (talk) 17:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

    Wahreit

    1. Matarisvan (talk) 11:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
    2. Kerbyki (talk) 13:41, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Nominations for military historian of the year for 2024 are open!

    Military historian of the year 2024
    • First place First place
    • Second place Second place
    • Third place Third place

    As we approach the end of the year, it is time for us to nominate the editors we believe have made a real difference to the project. As part of the first step to determining this year's "Military Historian of the Year" award, all Milhist editors are invited to nominate those that they feel deserve a nod of appreciation for their hard work over the past 12 months.

    The nomination process will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 16 November and last until 23:59 (UTC) on 30 November. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated. After that a new thread will be created and a voting period of will commence on 00:01 (UTC) on 1 December during which editors will be able to cast their approval vote for up to three of the nominees. At the end of this period on 23:59 on 30 December, the top three editors will be awarded the Gold, Silver and Bronze Wiki respectively; all other nominees will receive the WikiProject Barnstar.

    Please nominate editors below this line, including links in the nomination statement to the most significant articles/lists/images editors have worked on since 1 January 2024. Please keep nomination statements concise; excluding links to the articles/list/images in question, the ideal nomination statement should be about 20 words. Self nominations are frowned upon. Please do not vote until the nominations have been finalized. Thanks, and good luck! For all the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

    1. noclador (talk · contribs): Since 2005 has been working mainly on articles about the Italian Army. In 2023 started a project to write articles for all the Italian Army units active after WWII. Since August 2023 noclador has brought to B-class 298 articles about units of the Italian Army, of which 289 were created from scratch. Created 145 articles in 2023 and 2024. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. MSGJ (talk · contribs): Has worked on our Template:WikiProject Military history and the Lua Module:Banner shell and Module:WikiProject banner to implement changes required for our A-class reviews. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
      Thanks. A barn star would be appreciated but this nomination ... seems excessive — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. Zawed (talk · contribs): Another year, another seemingly endless quantity of New Zealand-related articles. From the Second World War and articles such as Mick Ensor, to the 1869 Battle of Te Pōrere, Zawed consistently produces a variety of high quality content. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
    4. Donner60 (talk · contribs) - for extensive behind-the-scenes work as a coordinator, especially their tireless work with the assessment process. Hog Farm Talk 15:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
    5. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) - prodigious output of articles relating to British naval ships, e.g. HMS Regulus (1785) and personalities, and also heavily involved in reviewing articles. Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    6. Hog Farm (talk · contribs) - another editor with a strong article output, this time relating mostly to the US Civil war, e.g. Edward W. Gantt. Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    7. Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) - yet another editor with tremendous output, particularly in military logistics e.g. Operation Matterhorn logistics. Does a lot of backroom stuff for the project. Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    8. Simongraham (talk · contribs) - works away on naval ships, with many articles created and taken up to GA, e.g. HMS Harpy (1909). Zawed (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

    Voting

    Nominations for this year's "Military History Newcomer of the Year" award have now closed, and it is time to vote for who you think deserves this honour. As with the awards for previous years, all the runners up will also be acknowledged.

    The nominees for this award and the statements given in support of these nominations are provided above. Voting can be done by adding a hash sign (#) followed by the four tildes (~~~~) to the nominee's section below. As the awards process is one of simple approval, opposes are deprecated.

    All editors are welcome to vote, but are asked to vote for a maximum of three candidates. The winner will be the editor who receives the most 'support' votes by the time voting closes at 23:59 (UTC) on 30 December 2024.

    Good luck to all the nominees! For the coordinators, Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

    Donner60

    1. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 07:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. MisterBee1966 (talk) 15:55, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
    4. Hog Farm Talk 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

    Hawkeye7

    1. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Wiki king 100000 (talk) 05:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 07:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    4. Donner60 (talk)
    5. Hog Farm Talk 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
    6. Kerbyki (talk) 14:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Hog Farm

    1. 2601AC47 (talk·contribs·my rights) Isn't a IP anon
    2. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. Donner60 (talk) 19:43, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

    MSGJ

    1. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Kerbyki (talk) 14:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Noclador

    1. Donner60 (talk) 19:42, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 12:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
    3. TheRazgriz (talk) 17:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
    4. Kerbyki (talk) 14:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

    Pickersgill-Cunliffe

    1. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Kierzek (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
    3. Hog Farm Talk 19:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

    Simongraham

    1. Kierzek (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

    Zawed

    1. Gog the Mild (talk) 01:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    2. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 11:53, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
    3. Kierzek (talk) 15:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

    Help needed for draft

    I am currently working on a draft on the Chinese 7th marine brigade(more commonly known as the Jiaolong commandos), may I ask if anyone has any feedback or extra third-party sources on the unit?

    Also the article already exists on chinese wikipedia. Thehistorianisaac (talk) 07:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

    AJ3 Tiger?

    This 1961 newspaper article about the Harlow Fire mentions some firefighting aircraft, the last of which is described as "an AJ3 Tiger, a post war navy bomber". I'm baffled what that might be - neither the Douglas A-3 Skywarrior nor North American A-5 Vigilante (originally A3J) seem likely. Does anywhere here have any clues? Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:19, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    The only references to "AJ3 Tiger" I'm finding on the Internet appear to originate with that newspaper article, so I think it's probably an error in the original reporting. Hog Farm Talk 04:38, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'd suspect it was a AJ Savage, as several were used as water bombers by AJ Air Tankers, first flying missions during 1961. "AJ Tanker" could easily be corrupted into "AJ Tiger" depending on the quality of the draft writing, with the 3 coming from a scribbled AJ-2? - The Bushranger One ping only 05:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Pi.1415926535: And looking at this more - seeing as the source describes it as "a post-war navy bomber", it's all but certain that yeah, it's a North American AJ Savage! - The Bushranger One ping only 05:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

    Good article reassessment for Henry VIII

    Henry VIII has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 23:12, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

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