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⚫ == Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2024 ==
{{atop|Asked and answered ] ]}}
⚫ {{edit semi-protected|Homeopathy|answered=yes}}
I came across some information about the etymology of the word 'homeopathic' in relation to the practice of magick. I would like to add the following. Edit as you wish.

In The Golden Bough, by Sir James Frazer, the word ‘homeopathy’ is the name used for 1 of three categories of magic - the others being ‘sympathetic’ and ‘contagious.’ According to Fraser, homeopathic magic is the principle that like produces like. An example of this would be the harming or healing of a poppet (sometimes known as a voodoo doll). However, the modern production of homeopathic remedies is more similar to the Law of Contact, or Contagious magic, because it is based on the idea that something that has been in contact with a thing carries the properties of that thing.

Modern practitioners of magick (spelled that way to differentiate it from fairy-tale or theatrical magic) can create magickal remedies that are just as effective (or not, depending on one's point of view). An example of this would be using a relic of a saint to request healing or a miracle, or using a lock of hair or fingernail clippings to cast a spell of healing on the person they were part of. Because contagious magic can be done with items readily available, there is usually no need to spend money on it, unless one chooses to.
Of course, the modern producers of homeopathic remedies don’t advertise them as magic, but as medicine, and sell them to people who believe that they are based on science. Were they to sell them legitimately as magickal ointments in a shop catering to magickal practitioners, they might be able to charge as much or more for them, but of course they would reach a much smaller audience.

<ref>James Fraser, The Golden Bough, chapter 3, section III. From https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3623/pg3623-images.html. Retrieved 11:45am utc, March 29th, 2024. </ref>
<ref>https://cdop.org/2013/11/what-are-relicsand-why-are-they-important/</ref>
<ref>https://occult-world.com/hair-and-nails/</ref> ] (]) 11:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

{{Not done}}. ''The Golden Bough'' is not a ]. Homeopathy may involve magical thinking, but we're not veering off into "magick". ] ] 12:16, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

:Please read ] and ]. While Frazer's ''Golden Bough'' is of historical significance, it has little relevance to the topic of this article, which pre-dates Frazer's extension (probably, per more recent critiques, over-extension) of the term 'homeopathy' to broader contexts than we are discussing here. As for the rest, Misplaced Pages is under no circumstances going to suggest that 'magick' is effective. This is a tertiary source - an encyclopaedia - and as such bases content on secondary scholarship (ideally, academia), rather than the unverifiable claims of homeopaths, or the practitioners of 'magick'. ] (]) 12:19, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
{{abot}}

== page npov ==
{{atop|Nothing to do here, closing per ]. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 18:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)}}
this page has been rewritten curtesy by the "guerilla sceptics" -- they even stupidly brag about it in recruiting events .. source rob heatherly (a list of the 1000+ rewritten wp pages would be nice) ] (]) 11:54, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
:Mate, what the heck are you talking about? This page hasn't had a major re-write in the maybe fifteen years it's been on my watchlist. ] ] 12:08, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
::another source is on my talk page as yt links are shunned - in a way it is a well known fact to shift perception via intro parts of disliked topics - science(tm) for the win - (interesting that the comment is allowed to live here but not on the ideological bias page) ] (]) 16:31, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
:::This page follows NPOV because Misplaced Pages relies on ] to determine scientific consensus. And the reliable sources are very clear about homeopathy.
:::Further, insinuations that editors are attempting to "shift perception" can be construed as a ].
:::Finally, your wording is... very poor. I assume English is not your primary language. In that case, you might want to try editing the wiki for your native language. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 16:43, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
::::sure english is not my primary language - so calling it poor - fine but also ad hominem .. "shifting perception" is the expression the group brags about - really not my words ] (]) 17:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
:::::This article has frequently been discussed as an example of a page that outsiders (usually, but not always, homeopaths with an obvious agenda) have claimed in one way or another to be 'biased'. Discussed by Misplaced Pages contributors generally, not the very small minority who consider themselves to be 'guerrilla sceptics'. And as far as the broader community of Misplaced Pages contributors are concerned, it conforms to the policies, arrived at through consensus over very many years, in regard to neutrality, appropriate sourcing etc. If it is 'biased' it is so because it matches the 'biases' inherent in an encyclopaedia that per policy prefers science and academic sources to conspiracy theories and magical thinking. You may not personally like such policy-induced 'bias', but it would appear that readers in general do, considering how often they return to Misplaced Pages as a reference source. Anyone is of course free to start their own alternative to Misplaced Pages, or find one of the many existing ones, and read or contribute to that instead. Meanwhile, our encyclopaedia, our rules. Misplaced Pages has its faults certainly, but not caving in to the demands of magic woo-water peddlers to help them sell their diluted-to-nothingness 'remedies' isn't one of them ] (]) 17:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
:::::Also, read ]. It does not mean what you think it means. --] (]) 17:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
::::::.. :) .. i read the page .. personal attack - means - ad hominem .. but sure i can be completely wrong .. maybe to say "also" by itself already is a "tu quoque" fallacy .. :) .. ] (]) 18:09, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
{{abot}}


== Mathematically impossible statement == == Mathematically impossible statement ==
Line 168: Line 134:
:::That's precisely the point, though: no human can perform a dilution "step by step" that achieves anything even remotely resembling 1 molecule in 1 galaxy's worth, much less 1 universe's worth. This 10^320 universes must come from bad math or some mistake somewhere. If the idea is to discredit homeopathy, it would be best not to do so with logically impossible math / physics. ] (]) 14:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC) :::That's precisely the point, though: no human can perform a dilution "step by step" that achieves anything even remotely resembling 1 molecule in 1 galaxy's worth, much less 1 universe's worth. This 10^320 universes must come from bad math or some mistake somewhere. If the idea is to discredit homeopathy, it would be best not to do so with logically impossible math / physics. ] (]) 14:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Demonstrating that something is mathematically impossible seems to me to be a darned good way to discredit it. ] (]) 14:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC) ::::Demonstrating that something is mathematically impossible seems to me to be a darned good way to discredit it. ] (]) 14:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::The ''maths'' itself is correct - a 200C dilution is genuinely that small a resulting number of molecules. And it's actually not that difficult to dilute something to that level - it's only a 1:100 dilution performed 200 times. If you were diluting in bigger amounts of solute you could do it very quickly. ] 15:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC) ::::The ''maths'' itself is correct - a 200C dilution is genuinely that small a resulting number of molecules. And it's actually not that difficult to dilute something to that level - it's only a 1:100 dilution performed 200 times. If you were diluting in bigger amounts of solvent you could do it very quickly. ] 15:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::If this is all ], it doesn’t need to be included, mathematically sound or not. It’s like refuting creationism with the ]— you don’t need to prove something with no basis in science, that clearly is incompatible with science on a macroscopic scale (it doesn’t work) is ''also'' incompatible with science on a microscopic scale. That should be obvious. ] (]) 15:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::It cites a source. ] (]) 16:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
:::::::It still seems like kind of a strange statement to include for the same reason I already described. Does this help the reader understand the topic or just double down on the fact that homeopathy obviously has no basis in science in a weird, overly technical way? ] (]) 16:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I made this edit, to make clearer to readers that it isn't OR: . --] (]) 17:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

⚫ == Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2024 ==
{{collapse top|Collapse AI blather}}
⚫ {{edit semi-protected|Homeopathy|answered=yes}}
This critique of homeopathy focuses on the system's funding, pseudo-scientific aspects, and the flaws in its purported benefits, rather than providing an objective overview of the system itself. It targets and undermines the supporters of homeopathy, leading me to question Misplaced Pages's reliability. For instance, some people assert that vaccines are scientifically proven to be beneficial, while others, presenting genuine cases of side effects, argue against them. If I were to present only one-sided arguments on Misplaced Pages, how would the extensive research in this field be valued? My concern is that Misplaced Pages should not provide a platform for biased views to propagate. The sheer number of references does not necessarily validate the claims, as opposing viewpoints are often supported by numerous sources as well. If Misplaced Pages lacks the ethical standards to prevent the publication of content without considering the writer's bias or without an editorial board to set boundaries, readers like me may lose trust in the platform.
{{collapse bottom}}
] (]) 09:28, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
:{{notdone}} Please use this template for precise editing requests on matters where consensus has been achieved. ] (]) 09:34, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

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References

  1. Jonas, WB; Ives, JA (February 2008). "Should we explore the clinical utility of hormesis". Human & Experimental Toxicology. 27 (2): 123–127. PMID 18480136.
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Mathematically impossible statement

The article contains this statement: "A 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum, would require 10^320 universes worth of molecules to contain just one original molecule in the final substance." This does not make any sense. For one, the volume of diluent would have to be (literally) astronomically large. For two, I'm pretty sure no known scientific process achieves this level of purity. If homeopaths in fact claim to achieve this level of purity, I suppose that's just another false claim: but I don't think it should be treated as a fact. Andrewbrink (talk) 02:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

It's supposed to be earth atmoshpheres not "universes", I think. — Usedtobecool ☎️ 03:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
No, it's universes. The math is supposed to show how aburd homeopaths' claims are. Of course, homeopaths do not do the diluting all at once: take one "duck liver molecule" (whatever that may be) and 10^320 universes of water. They do it step by step, and in summary it amounts to that. --Hob Gadling (talk) 04:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
That's precisely the point, though: no human can perform a dilution "step by step" that achieves anything even remotely resembling 1 molecule in 1 galaxy's worth, much less 1 universe's worth. This 10^320 universes must come from bad math or some mistake somewhere. If the idea is to discredit homeopathy, it would be best not to do so with logically impossible math / physics. Andrewbrink (talk) 14:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Demonstrating that something is mathematically impossible seems to me to be a darned good way to discredit it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
The maths itself is correct - a 200C dilution is genuinely that small a resulting number of molecules. And it's actually not that difficult to dilute something to that level - it's only a 1:100 dilution performed 200 times. If you were diluting in bigger amounts of solvent you could do it very quickly. Black Kite (talk) 15:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
If this is all WP:OR, it doesn’t need to be included, mathematically sound or not. It’s like refuting creationism with the law of conservation of mass— you don’t need to prove something with no basis in science, that clearly is incompatible with science on a macroscopic scale (it doesn’t work) is also incompatible with science on a microscopic scale. That should be obvious. Dronebogus (talk) 15:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
It cites a source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
It still seems like kind of a strange statement to include for the same reason I already described. Does this help the reader understand the topic or just double down on the fact that homeopathy obviously has no basis in science in a weird, overly technical way? Dronebogus (talk) 16:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
I made this edit, to make clearer to readers that it isn't OR: . --Tryptofish (talk) 17:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2024

Collapse AI blather
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This critique of homeopathy focuses on the system's funding, pseudo-scientific aspects, and the flaws in its purported benefits, rather than providing an objective overview of the system itself. It targets and undermines the supporters of homeopathy, leading me to question Misplaced Pages's reliability. For instance, some people assert that vaccines are scientifically proven to be beneficial, while others, presenting genuine cases of side effects, argue against them. If I were to present only one-sided arguments on Misplaced Pages, how would the extensive research in this field be valued? My concern is that Misplaced Pages should not provide a platform for biased views to propagate. The sheer number of references does not necessarily validate the claims, as opposing viewpoints are often supported by numerous sources as well. If Misplaced Pages lacks the ethical standards to prevent the publication of content without considering the writer's bias or without an editorial board to set boundaries, readers like me may lose trust in the platform.

118.148.126.228 (talk) 09:28, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Please use this template for precise editing requests on matters where consensus has been achieved. Bon courage (talk) 09:34, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
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