Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 21:51, 5 November 2024

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Dustborn. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Dustborn at the Reference desk.

This article is rated Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Internet culture Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of internet culture on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Internet cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Internet cultureTemplate:WikiProject Internet cultureInternet culture Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Internet culture To-do: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : View all requested internet culture articles Expand : Pick an article from here or here Photo : Category:Internet culture articles needing images Stubs : All stubs are located here Other : Category:Internet self-classification codes (!?); Try to get YouTube to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}} See also Category:Internet culture articles needing attention Video games Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Video gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Video gamesTemplate:WikiProject Video gamesvideo game Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks: Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks view watch edit history shell vg talk alerts purge AfDs Temmie Chang (2 participants) Greg Martin (artist) (2 participants) PKHeX (5 participants) List of James Bond villains (9 participants) Evernight Games (1 participant) Pokémon Home (2 participants) List of Pokémon volumes (3 participants) Gameplay of Pokémon (8 participants) Lisette Titre-Montgomery (7 participants) Party royale game (3 participants) Cossacks (video games series) (3 participants; relisted) Rat Race (video game) (7 participants; relisted) Red Barrels (3 participants; relisted) Merge discussions EA Sports FC (discussion) Console game (discussion) Atari Interactive (discussion) Nintendo DS Lite (discussion) Pokémon Essentials (discussion) Input lag (discussion) Neo Geo Pocket (discussion) Minecraft – Volume Beta (discussion) Other discussions No major discussions Featured content candidates Donkey Kong (nom) Hotline Miami (nom) The Suicide of Rachel Foster (nom) Bejeweled (video game) (nom) Chris Redfield (nom) List of generation II Pokémon (nom) Good article nominations Pixel Piracy (start) River Raid (start) The Great Giana Sisters (nom) Dendy (start) Dark Urge (start) Jeanette Voerman (start) Deathloop (start) Regi (Pokémon) (start) Ridley (Metroid) (start) Blast Wind (start) Project Zero 2: Wii Edition (start) Barry Burton (start) Sea of Stars (start) Pokémon Stadium (nom) Otogirisō (start) Schim (start) Bit Pilot (start) Tom Clancy's The Division 2 (start) Unsighted (start) Gardevoir (start) Cybermania '94 (start) Nuzlocke (nom) Berzerk (video game) (start) Overcrowd: A Commute 'Em Up (nom) Frostpunk (start) Shiny Pokémon (start) Cry of Fear (start) Moida Mansion (start) DYK nominations Sun Haven Reviews and reassessments A Space for the Unbound (rev) Bejeweled (video game) (rev) The Legend of Dragoon (rev) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (nom) Appy Awards Anarchy Online (nom) Articles that need... assessment (4) (0) reassessment (0) cleanup (3) infoboxes (9) cover art (249) screenshots (8,994) photos (70) translation from japan (187) creation merging LGBTQ+ studies This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Misplaced Pages. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Allegations of stolen GTA V assets

There have been various allegations about this game such as one accusing RedThread of stealing assets from GTA V or at least copying the frame of an apartment building from GTA V. Should this be added to the reception section, or is this information not concrete enough to include? Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 04:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a source --FMSky (talk) 08:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I have found various sources covering this topic, but they all seem to be extremely biased.

'Dustborn' Developer Appears To Confirm Game Features Stolen Assets, Disparages Men, And Threatens To Push Gay Agenda In Video Games (thatparkplace.com)

Dustborn stealing assets? :: Dustborn General Discussions (steamcommunity.com)

Dustborn Dev Goes On The Attack After Caught STEALING Game Assets... (smashjt.com) Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 18:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Screen Rant is a leftist website and is considered a reliable source, I don't know why? Of the previous sources, only thatparkplace.com can be considered, steamcommunity.com is a forum and therefore is not valid to be a reliable source, and about smashjt.com, some Misplaced Pages administrators consider it a "far-right" website even though its veracity has been proven.

I add an impartial page like ixbt.games that talks about the same subject of the theft from GTA with conclusive evidence, but i don't think some users accept it because it is a RUSSIAN website. Bye

Твое какое дело. Поплачь еще». Разработчик Dustborn фактически признала кражу ассетов из GTA Online

--179.51.60.8 (talk) 21:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

No reliable source has covered this because you can just buy the apartment assets to use in your own game from TurboSquid - https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/modern-interior-furniture-and-props-pack-1997031 - hahnchen 15:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Concurrent players

Regarding this edit.

The peak number of concurrent players says little to nothing about the sales. In theory, it could be 80 new players playing the game every hour, or it could be the same 80 players playing the game every hour. Moreover, the source does not appear to be commenting on whether the game "failed to attract players". Its speculative comment translates to "The launch of Dustborn appears to have gone rather poorly" (emphasis added). Lastly, the figure does not reflect the numbers on Xbox, PlayStation, and Epic Games Store, so it cannot be used for broad statements about the game anywhere except on Steam. Daisy Blue (talk) 07:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

So what about Eurogamer reported that the game's launch on Steam seems to have gone "rather poorly", reaching a peak player count of only 83 concurrent players on the platform --FMSky (talk) 07:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

That is in line with the source, however, as I mentioned on WP:AN, it's not a statement about sales, nor can the number of sales be reasonably inferred from that data point. Unless Misplaced Pages allows for a way for that information to exist somewhere outside a Sales section, it should be removed altogether. Daisy Blue (talk) 07:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Then just remove the "Sales" heading and list it under Reception --FMSky (talk) 07:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:VGLAYOUT, "Reception: This should detail how the game was received by critics." (emphasis mine). Daisy Blue (talk) 07:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

You know we also have In the week following the game's release, it failed to reach the Top 100 games sold on Steam, both globally and in Norway., as well as failing to appear in the Top 40 most played games on Xbox and PS5.. What is the problem with that --FMSky (talk) 07:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

That's a separate subject. Created a separate section on that below. Daisy Blue (talk) 07:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Critics often have commercial relationships with publishers. Steam player counts show direct audience engagement. Both are relevant, but the second is our most pure insight into actual game reception. 2600:8805:3D0F:F800:29B2:D50:414E:9C71 (talk) 14:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Steam is the primary sales platform, so the number is relevant. But for comparison, Dustborn was heavily marketed on XBOX and only has 21 reviews (a measure of audience engagement) vs. other unknown indie titles with triple that amount. A flat read of the available metrics indicates both low sales and low player engagement. 2600:8805:3D0F:F800:29B2:D50:414E:9C71 (talk) 13:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Suggest just stating this is a Steam data point. Steam has 37M+ concurrent players and is the only available measurement of actual reception. That allows readers to compare reception of this game vs. other Steam games, which is very informative.

Example. They can easily lookup other games like Black Myth (12M+ players), Concord (600+) and Dustborn (80+) to get a sense of audience size on Steam.

Including that data in articles on games is highly informative. 2600:8805:3D0F:F800:29B2:D50:414E:9C71 (talk) 15:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Please explain to me what these two games even have in common besides both being controversial games Trade (talk) 03:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Steam highest concurrent player data is simply a direct, pure measure of peak audience reception. So you can compare any game on Steam with any other game on Steam. Take your pick and compare. Given there are 37M+ users active any any time, it is a valuable data source for all games available on the platform. 2600:8805:3D0F:F800:7BA1:62C8:95B4:AE52 (talk) 05:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The citation is from Eurogamer and clearly identifies that the data pertains to Steam specifically. "Top Concurrent Users" is a standard metric across all Steam games, allowing a reader to get a clear sense of audience reception on Steam vs. all other games on the platform. Steam data is frequently cited by gaming publications as it is the main source of gamer reception data. I believe there is no reason to leave the "dubious" notation active. Will that be removed? GameData (talk) 19:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

This edit by @Rhain: is an improvement, however, it doesn't reflect the very unsure or safe wording of the original that is highlighted in my first comment in this section. Also, PC Gamer refers specifically to the "launch sales" but the "launch" part is omitted from the edit. According to Remedy, "A great game can generate excellent long tail sales", so I think there is value in maintaining the specificity seen in the source. Daisy Blue (talk) 01:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Sales - charts

Regarding these edits by Poketape, they are original research, as they include no reference to anyone making those claims. It's Poketape inserting their own interpretation of the charts. Daisy Blue (talk) 07:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Are you here to improve this article? --FMSky (talk) 07:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Directly citing charts needs to have an actual purpose besides dunking on the game. It's not typical to mention that a game failed to chart, because most games fail to chart, though in the specific case of the Steam charts, it had an article devoted to it, showing that it did notably poorly. In contrast, a game can not be on the charts and still be successful, raising the question of why it is mentioned. Removing POV pushing is definitely improving the article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I introduced them to the article and cited them as there was a complaint that the Steam article did not cover other platforms, so I felt finding tracking information on other platforms would be the best way to assuage those concerns. poketape (talk) 15:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

"The developers have expressed disappointment at the wave of hatred and harassment targeted towards them online"

https://www.igromania.ru/news/142113/sozdateli-yarkoj-i-spornoj-dustborn-otvetili-na-nenavist-v-seti/ https://kanobu.ru/news/sozdateli-provalnoj-dustborn-proehalis-po-kritikam-i-hejteram-490285/

Should we include this? Trade (talk) 03:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think using non-English sources is a great idea unless there are no reliable or equivalent sources on the matter in English. Thankfully, there are in this case: PC Gamer, Kotaku. That aside, I'm not sure which section it would be good for. There is a Release section under Development that contains the controversy in Hogwarts Legacy, which is a WP:GA. Daisy Blue (talk) 04:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Should the various ironic and troll reviews on Steam be mentioned in this section along with the sentiments of hatred and harassment the game and the developers have received online? I have seen ironically posted positive reviews such as "i love my government funded milennialcore video game." Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 16:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Let's be frank. The hate is the reason why 90 percent of visitors even search for this article. Might as well put it in the intro since it's by far the most notable part of the work Trade (talk) 03:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not good at making additions to articles so feel free to mercilessly nitpick and scrutinize my writing Trade (talk) 03:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:LEAD, that section is for a short introduction and summarizing the rest of the article. Some GAs have dedicated controversy sections (e.g. Grand Theft Auto IV and Manhunt (video game), while others cover those sorts of things under Development, as already noted above. Daisy Blue (talk) 04:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Tornquist interview to Gamer.no

Regarding this edit, it appears that Misplaced Pages has no records of Gamer.no's reputation and reliability, however, it is a unique interview with the director covering multiple aspects related to Dustborn.

Though I'm not sure about the acceptability of the source, the parts added to the article do not fully represent what is said in the article. Firstly, the parts selected for inclusion are almost to the same effect as the parts that were already in the article, making it an issue of weight and balance. Secondly, they are missing the full context. Tornquist says that he doesn't have the full sales figures, and that "Even though not an immediate success, it has sold far more than what people are saying online, I can say that." The relevant article section is summarized as "Not a flop" in its heading, which itself is a direct quote from Tornquist, yet the source is used to imply the opposite in the Misplaced Pages article. Daisy Blue (talk) 19:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Also worth noting that IGN Italy preserved some of the context, including the "not a flop" and "sold far more than people are saying" parts. Eurogamer.pt's coverage of the same interview contained the exact same parts that I highlighted as missing. Both place "not a flop" in or around the headlines. Daisy Blue (talk) 20:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Citing an interview {{cite interview}} is a little different from citing a magazine or website, ostensibly it is quoting the words of Ragnar Tørnquist rather than the opinion or interpretation of the website (or at least should be, as you say the issue is weight and balance with the added problem of translation). Watch out for WP:HEADLINES though, they are not be a reliable source and unfortunately may misrepresent the content of the article body. -- 109.79.165.199 (talk) 21:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Start-Class Internet culture articles
• Low-importance Internet culture articles
• WikiProject Internet culture articles
• Start-Class video game articles
• Low-importance video game articles
• WikiProject Video games articles
• Start-Class LGBTQ+ studies articles
• WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies articles