Revision as of 18:46, 10 October 2024 editNableezy (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers56,154 edits →Using a terrorist organization as a source: replyTag: CD← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 22:51, 24 December 2024 edit undoClueBot III (talk | contribs)Bots1,372,316 editsm Archiving 1 discussion to User talk:Vice regent/Archives/2024/September. (BOT) | ||
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== I tried to find something, and it was you. == | |||
on ] was showing an error, which I found was caused by inconsistent use of straight (") and curly (”) quotation marks. After some difficulty, I found that it was because you '' something you though was removed for reasons you didn't know and thus put in a ] (duplicate of which was also used at lead that time) with curly quotation marks, however the one in the lead has its curly marks replaced by straight marks per mos:curly in with other similar cases of curly marks replaced by straight, and thus your new addition of sfn named same as that in lead, but containing the outdated curly marks caused an error. The Hamas article is already suffering from other issues, so the reference thing is already filled with error whatsoever. Overall, I suggest you to watch for the changes your edits make and for any error caused, so such incidents could be avoided. Thank you, ] ] 14:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@] sorry about that. Just to clarify my mistake was this reference: | |||
:<nowiki>{{sfn|Baconi|2018|p=108|ps=Hamas’s finance minister in Gaza stated that “a long-term ceasefire as understood by Hamas and a two-state settlement are the same. It’s just a question of vocabulary.”}}</nowiki> | |||
:Which quotes should I have used? " or “ ? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 15:10, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Instead of curly quotation marks <code>(“ ”)</code> , you should use straight quotation marks <code>(" ")</code>. This helps in making consistency within the article and are easier to type, see ]. There were these two connected SFN templates with both having wrong ''curly marks'', and somebody removed one SFN while other stayed, still having those wrong ''curly marks''. Later somebody corrected those ''curly marks'' to ''straight marks''. Then you did a simple mistake of copy pasting the old SFN with everything same, but wrong ''curly quotation marks''. Thus the system got confused with the two SFNs with same name, as one had ''straight marks'' while other has ''curly ''and the error occurred. Hence, always use <code>"</code>. Regards, ] ] 15:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Got it, thanks! And sorry for the inconvenience caused.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 15:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:After checking the root of all cite errors, I find that your edit "" is the cause behind them all. 3 out of 7 have been fixed. I understand that this happened in negligence and would like to note that 'copy pasting' from old version, that too for a long article, should always be done under various considerations. I think all the four citations which are causing cite errors need to be removed as they are invoked via some 'named reference' but all the original references under which there urls were stored are nowhere to be found. I hope you collaborate, regards, ] ] 16:47, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Can you check now and see if there are any more broken references? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 17:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Congratulations, we found them all it seems. ] ] 17:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] at ] == | |||
#{{diff2|1239713161|01:34, 11 August 2024}} was a partial revert of {{diff2|1234274260|14:02, 13 July 2024}} | |||
#{{diff2|1239726101|03:50, 11 August 2024}} | |||
Please self-revert 03:50, 11 August 2024. I am also concerned that in that edit you reintroduced material we know to be false. ] (]) 04:06, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Can you explain how the first one was a revert? {{ping|Skitash}}, do you think reverted your edits? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:10, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::They labeled a section "airstrike", which you relabelled in line with your general push against the use of "airstrike". | |||
::That is a partial revert, which means that 03:50 was a 1RR violation which needs to be self-reverted. ] (]) 04:11, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Ok, I self-reverted that part.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:14, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::You don’t get to pick which edit you revert - you need to revert the 1RR violation, which was 03:50. ] (]) 04:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::That's news to me, can you point me to why one can't revert the easier one to change? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::Because that wasn’t the 1RR violation, and because self-reverting a revert doesn’t nullify the revert for the purposes of determining violations, it just rectifies the error. | |||
::::::This is how it has been consistently interpreted at AE. | |||
::::::(Also, 03:50 would have been easier to revert, as you could do so with the undo button) ] (]) 04:19, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Can you point me to the comment on AE or elsewhere? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:23, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::See the Bluethricecreamman discussion, where a related argument was made. However, at this point it feels like you are Wikilawyering - are you going to self-revert the edit that violated 1RR or not? ] (]) 04:27, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:What info do we know to be false? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:10, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::As I said in my edit summary, we know that the claim that all casualties were civilians is false - and is also unsupported by the sources. ] (]) 04:14, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::I didn't write that all casualties were civilians. I did imply that 90 civilians were killed. There is no source that says 90 weren't killed, but I realize the ] is on me, so let me find the source, and in the meanwhile we can put a {{cn}} tag.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::You wrote that 90+ people were killed, and that they were all civilians. In other words, you wrote that everyone killed was a civilian. ] (]) 04:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::Can you tell me where I said "all"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::Here's at least one source: "The attack killed at least 90 civilians in a densely populated area sheltering about 80,000 people, according to Gaza’s Ministry of Health."''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:18, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::That’s an attributed claim - we can’t put it in Wikivoice. ] (]) 04:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*{{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} can you confirm {{diff2|1239713161|01:34, 11 August 2024}} was a partial revert of {{diff2|1234274260|14:02, 13 July 2024}}? It seems one can simply not make the most straightforward changes without them being considered reverts. And can you confirm that if someone violates 1rr, they must self rv their most recent edit? In this case, out of abundance of caution, I reverted both edits in question.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:31, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*: "Euro-Med is an extremely partisan source of questionable reliability and connection to Hamas...." (According to BM and the Israeli government, presumably). At any rate that's not what the reflects. ] (]) 09:57, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I don't see a consensus of "generally reliable" there; at best, there is a consensus of "use only with attribution", and the consensus is probably more restrictive than that. ] (]) 10:05, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::Inline attribution is fine, reverting with the above reason isn't. ] (]) 10:12, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::::You really should read my full edit summary: | |||
*::::{{tqb|Euro-Med is an extremely partisan source of questionable reliability and connection to Hamas. We shouldn’t be giving their claims this much emphasis or suggesting they are accurate with statements like "confirmed"}} | |||
*::::Please also note that I said {{tq|at best}} and {{tq|the consensus is probably more restrictive than that}} ] (]) 10:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::::When I quoted from your edit summary, I did indeed read your full edit summary, I only care about the baloney in the first part tho. ] (]) 10:20, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Technically, yes. It undid the naming of the sections. I didn't look beyond that, as that already met the threshold of a ]. I'm starting to think that consensus required or enforced BRD might be a bit easier to work with, or at least clearer, than 1RR. ] (]) 17:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Not keen on enforced BRD/CR unless it's to temporarily deal with a nightmare, will likely lead to a lot of forced unnecessary discussions. ] (]) 17:37, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Only regarding the content dispute , i see no issue with the material added by VR , BilledMammal only seems to say "its known to be false" with no logic or citation ] (]) 14:10, 12 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::, according to both Israeli and Palestinian sources. ] (]) 14:17, 12 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::And at no point did I say he was not.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 06:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
==List of petitions calling for Israel to be banned from sports== | |||
Hello Vice regent. @AirshipJungleman29 proposed that the ] be merged to another article. The first time they , they pointed to "poor prose quality and the lack of sources". Now the sourced have been doubled and the prose has been improved by User:Albertatiran. Do you know what else might be a problem? ] (]) 04:47, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|Ghazaalch}} this is ]. Please avoid doing it in the future. ] (]) 05:15, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::This is an article I've been . I've changed my signature to tell people to ping me. But for whatever reason I don't sometimes get that, so I explicitly tell people all over wikipedia to just message me on my talk page.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 05:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::The only editor they notified of this discussion was you, which makes this canvassing. If they want to notify editors they are expected to notify those on both "sides". ] (]) 05:25, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::That's fine. @] please notify all other parties. However, please also continue to notify me either via or a ping or on my talk page.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 05:30, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::: Thank you Vice regent. I had already tried to take advice of other users involved including User:AirshipJungleman29 who draftified it and Albertatiran who copy-edited it , but I also try to ping other users including those involved in .] (]) 08:05, 11 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
==A barnstar for you== | |||
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;" | |||
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|]| ]}} | |||
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar''' | |||
|- | |||
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This for your contributions related to ]. ] (]) 13:48, 19 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
|} | |||
==Mustafa Hafiz School strike == | |||
Can you create an article for this strike with latest death toll of at least 12 people. Al Jazeera source:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/8/20/israel-strikes-market-and-school-in-gaza-killing-at-least-20-palestinians. Other sources can be found using a simple Google Search. So I think that this strike passes ]. Please create an article about it if you think that it is notable. Thank you in advance. ] (]) 08:31, 22 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@] I'm so sorry I forgot to respond to this. Do we still need an article for this event?''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 12:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Thank you for your response. I am now thinking that this event is not notable for an article because death toll is only 12. It is already mentioned in ] and its timeline. These types of airstrikes are happening almost everyday with IDF claiming that it is attacking Hamas operatives. ] (]) 13:02, 18 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::@] notability is not determined by death toll, but by coverage, both short-term and long-term. Short-term coverage is easy to determine. Long-term coverage is a bit harder to determine, but have there been any in-depth analyses of the attack? This includes in-depth analyses in Arabic media too. Have any notable organizations hinted they might do a ] investigation on it? That should help us with enduring notability.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 13:19, 18 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::Thank you for your clarification. I was only able to find short-term coverage. ] (]) 13:27, 18 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Invite for comments: == | |||
I would like to let you know that RS has changed wordings in its articles sourced in ] for keeping names and ranks of individuals, and I have added comment in talk page pointing out BLP policy . I am writing this to have your opinions on the issue. Also I have posted it on ] to invite editors to examine BLP issue with article. <span class="ShoeSig">]( ] • ] )</span> 17:43, 18 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== CS1 error on ] == | |||
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==DYK for Palestinian right of armed resistance== | |||
{{ivmbox | |||
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|text = On ], ''']''' was updated with a fact from the article ''''']''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that arguments in favor of a ''']''' are often based on ] to the Geneva Conventions?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at ]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>(], )</small>, and the hook may be added to ] after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the ]. | |||
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== Re: "unprovoked" == | |||
Hello Vice regent. Are you able to remove the IP and non-EC users from your thread? They should not be able to leave comments that are not straight forward edit-requests. I would also encourage you to emphasize NPOV rather than opening up forum-like discussion with a counterargument. It's pretty clear that "unprovoked" is POV, need not go further than that. ] ] 19:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@] done.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 19:43, 24 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Trying to get in touch == | == Trying to get in touch == | ||
Line 197: | Line 86: | ||
== Using a terrorist organization as a source == | == Using a terrorist organization as a source == | ||
In these edits and , you used Samidoun, an organization proscribed as a terrorist group in Germany and the Netherlands, to support claims about Samir |
In these edits and , you used Samidoun, an organization proscribed as a terrorist group in Germany and the Netherlands, to support claims about ]’s innocence according to his own account. Samidoun is reported by sources to have ties to or act as a proxy for the ], itself designated a terrorist organization by the US, EU, Canada, and the UK. This is particularly concerning in light of your other recent edits, such as this one , where you introduced a definition of ] as a "resistance group" in WP:VOICE in the article's very first sentence (especially strange after seeing this ). I believe this falls short of the standards expected in our topic area. ] (]) 17:54, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
:Oh ffs, that a government says some group is a terrorist organization has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it is a reliable source for some statement. The IDF is a proscribed terrorist organization in Iran, should we not cite it for anything? VR, delete this at your leisure. ''']''' - 18:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | :Oh ffs, that a government says some group is a terrorist organization has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it is a reliable source for some statement. The IDF is a proscribed terrorist organization in Iran, should we not cite it for anything? VR, delete this at your leisure. ''']''' - 18:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | ||
::Tagging @] and @], who seem to be the main admins monitoring this area right now, as well as @], @]. More evidence regarding editor conduct that typically doesn’t reach AE can be found here and should be considered when deciding whether to accept the motion to start a case and afterwards, if it proceeds. ] (]) 19:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::If you have an issue with the reliability of the source bring it to ] to determine consensus. The views of nations can be evidence of unreliability, but don't immediately make a source unusable. ] (]) 20:22, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Samidoun is a registered charity in Canada. That Israel and some of its allies have determined that suppporting the rights of Palestinian prisoners is an act of terror is not something that determines its reliability. That you can browbeat an editor who is actually editing in good faith and improving articles with these bogus insinuations is indeed one of the things that doesnt typically reach AE but in a rational world would. ''']''' - 19:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I used Samidoun to cite the statement "Kantar denied the accusations and maintained his innocence", not for anything nefarious. Of course, I could have used plenty of much more reliable sources for that statement, and when my mistake was pointed out, I Guardian and CNN instead. Samidoun's lack of reliability has nothing to do with Germany's unfortunate of free speech. For example yet it remains reliable for wiki standards. When I get the chance, I do plan to write an article on ].''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 19:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== 1RR == | |||
''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 18:43, 14 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Consecutive reverts count as a single one. I deliberately break my reverts into multiple reverts so as to make it easy to follow what I'm doing so that you may object to my edits partially rather than as a whole. That moves us more quickly towards consensus.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 13:43, 15 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Would you mind showing me where in the policy that is? ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 13:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::]: "A series of consecutively saved reverting edits by one user, with no intervening edits by another user, counts as one revert." ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 13:58, 15 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Photo == | |||
Hi, I would like to ask you something, since I cannot edit the page on the Israel and Hamas war, I would like to ask you if you would mind putting up some photos of the events, two photos, one of the events of the raid on the al-Aqsa hospital, and another of the children buried in the refrigerator. | |||
the first is called GZ0Ubx4XUAQPot3.jpg, the second GZ6tn3rWkAAQ3RJ.jpg, thank you very much in any case ] (]) 12:16, 16 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@] For the , we would have to get Waleed's permission or public domain release, otherwise it will be deleted. Would you like to enquire with him? ] <small>]]</small> 09:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ICRC recently posted a video you may find very helpful == | |||
It is about international humanitarian law as it relates to Islamic law. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuAG7lU-as | |||
Also, I replied to your comment on my talk page, but didn't notice the request to ping you upon doing so. Note that you can use the Subscribe button to have Misplaced Pages do so automatically. ] (]) 05:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Putting in American financial support for Israel in the very first paragraph of the lead == | |||
@] The original goalpost was, ```"Can I write in the Israel lead that it has extensive financial and military backing from the USA?"``` Most people after that, commented about the first paragraph probably because they realized that certain articles already have leads with information included that you have implied shouldn't be in the lead based on WP, but instead are simply not in the first paragraph. Which as my response, to ], '''"Possibly, get some sources together and go to the Israeli talk page. I'm not saying that exact wording would be agreed specifically because the USA normally gives around 3-4 billion and Israel spends 27-28 billion on military spending itself. So the word "extenstive" is doing a lot of work. But ~10% is ~10%."''' | |||
You took my words out of context (as a response to what I assume was a hyperbolic statement from Selfstudier), didn't even cite correctly because lead includes way more than just the first paragraph. | |||
I'm pretty certain we are not supposed to have discussions, regardless of maturity level, across article talk pages. I have no idea what policy it is but either remove the question on Israel talk page and apologize to those you, without consent, pinged across to another article's talk page. Or if you are sincere in wanting to make that change to the Israeli article, rewording and remove those users you pinged including myself. | |||
Thank you, | |||
] (]) 19:17, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I'm confused. When you said "go to the Israeli talk page", you meant ], right? And can you clarify what you mean by "because lead includes way more than just the first paragraph"? I believe the context of yours (and selfstudier's comments) was the ''first'' paragraph of the lead. Did I misunderstand that? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 00:39, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::@] Don't play that misunderstanding argument. You didn't just ping me and selfstudier to the Israeli talk page. You were trying to make a statement and it wasn't appropriate. | |||
::Either delete the topic and apologize to those you pinged over to the Israeli talk page without their consent or reword your Israeli talk page topic (removing those you pinged) and apologize to them. Failure to do either, I will go to dispute resolution. | |||
::] ] (]) 02:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::You're welcome to pursue dispute resolution, but a few points: | |||
:::*Discussions about changes to a particular article, in this case the article ], should happen at the appropriate talk page. There is nothing wrong with starting a discussion there. | |||
:::*It is assumed that it is ok to ping anyone, unless they have clearly said otherwise. There ] to pinging everyone in a discussion. You also have the option of ]. | |||
:::*You ] (let alone "delete the topic") after others have responded to it. | |||
:::Finally, I'd rather get back to the substance of the issue, which is what should be in the first paragraph as opposed to the rest of the lead.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 14:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> ] (]) 21:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Administrator Noticeboard Notice (October 2024) == | |||
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*Just a note, I am not accusing you of anything. The AN/I notice is that a media article has accused you of violating Misplaced Pages guidelines, and this media article was mentioned at AN/I. '''The ]''' (] 04:35, 27 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== As to not drag out AE any longer == | |||
Responding to , I don't disagree, and I'm sure there is other sourcing that presents the information differently. With what was presented and taking a quick look the report wasn't flagrantly incorrect. My point is that AE isn't the venue to look at 40 such diffs, compile or have other editors compile sources for an analysis, and compare the language used, sources available, and how that changes depending on the subject of the article. That's what the evidence and workshop phases of an Arbcom case are for. The fact that you wanted to (and should!) present counter-evidence and analysis shows that the limitations of AE can't handle that. It would be one thing if there were a few examples given, as is often the case, and the subject of the report can reply, but as I'm you're well aware if we start setting up diff analysis tables and wording examinations we'll have a hundred thousand words there in a week. ] (]) 19:55, 11 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
:AE not being the venue does not mean it should be referred to ArbCom. It means you should decline to take action. If a user wants to go to ArbCom with that complaint that is their prerogative, you referring a case however is the admins saying ArbCom '''should''' deal with this, not that AE should not. ''']''' - 20:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
::They should deal with it as there is a case on its way. There were also (and have been in the past) accusations that the report and behavior is tendentious. That is something Arbcom should be looking at in the coming case. ] (]) 21:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
:@], got it, thanks.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 20:09, 11 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
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== Cite missing from Baalbek == | |||
Hi VR. You added a short form reference for "Daher 2024" to ] but there's no "Daher 2024" cite in the article. Could you add the missing cites to the ] section? -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 16:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Nevermind I was able to confirm that this was Daher 2019 ''Hezbollah: Mobilization and Power'' and fix the reference. -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 01:49, 5 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::@], sorry just saw this. Yes that's correct. I had copied and pasted references from other articles without copying and pasting the main sfn ref.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 17:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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Latest revision as of 22:51, 24 December 2024
Hi, this is my discussion page. Do not hesitate to leave message for me. Old messages are eventually archived.
Trying to get in touch
Hello - I'm a reporter getting in touch about some edits -- could you please find me on Twitter on @margimurphy? Margimurphy (talk) 20:12, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't have twitter. You can message me here, I'll try to respond asap. You may also email me. But please read WP:CANVASSING before emailing me.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:48, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
Forgot to sign your warning
Move War Topic, You forgot to sign your warning in line with policy.
WP:UW
PS: The Beirut attack on the Hezbollah headquarters article/stub has come together so quickly and well, it's really impressive.
RCSCott91 (talk) 12:25, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- @RCSCott91 I don't understand. I do see a signature in my edit.VR (Please ping on reply) 12:31, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- My bad, I missed it. Edit: I realize now, the view on my phone wraps the text just perfectly to kitty corner your signature on my mobile screen.
RCSCott91 (talk) 12:55, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
Where was the PETN explosion component in the device and Orientalism
Hey VR. First of all I would like to say a big thank you, for your careful editing and clarifications to the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. Just thanks!
Because the discussions page is "protected" I point out here that the sentence in the article: "The New York Times reported that the Israeli intelligence operated BAC Consulting and had created two other unnamed shell corporations to hide their involvement. The pagers produced for Hezbollah had batteries that integrated 3 grams (0.11 ounces) of the explosive PETN in such a way that it would have been extremely difficult to detect."
That's probably misleading. Note a battery or even a rechargeable battery (primary and secondary batteries) are constantly being replaced ;-) And note this is from Ronen Bergman (who is known to work closely with Israel's intelligence community) "How Israel Built a Modern-Day Trojan Horse: Exploding Pagers, The New York Times, 18 September 2024". → Downright gleeing about terrorism by associating terrorism with the classical “Tales” of Odysseus and the elite heroes of the Hellenes.
A report in The Guardian quotes a Lebanese security source as saying "Mossad injected a board inside of the device that has explosive material." This contradicts the claim that the explosive was in the battery. → "Hezbollah device blasts: how did pagers and walkie-talkies explode and what do we know about the attacks?, The Guardian, 19 September 2024". The pagers were impregnated with explosives, the pagers were the explosives. Having the explosive on or integrated into the circuit board would make it easier not to be to detected and would make detonation control much simpler.
And then there is one more thing else worth to be mention: Hezbollah moved with it's military wing over completely to Fiber-optic communications. The military wing doesn't use pager and doesn't use walkie-talkies. Who were using pagers/walkie-talkies were the local policemen, firefighters, medical personal — what can be called the Civil Hezbollah. The management of Civil Life, that manages a huge slice of Beirut and the country and it has to provide Law and Order, security, and health care etc.
Times of Israel:
- Lebanon’s private medical facilities, which house 85% of all hospital beds in the country, are at full capacity following last week’s attacks on communication devices held by Hezbollah members, Sleiman Haroun, president of Lebanon’s Syndicate of Private Hospitals, has said.(here)
2008 there was a big huge brouhaha in Lebanon where pro-american and pro-israel officials were gunning for H.'s private fiber optic network, a communication network that H. had set up nationwide throughout Lebanon by itself for itself as defense against Israeli electronic warfare.
The anti-Hezbollah news outlet “This is Beirut”:
- Hezbollah’s telecommunications network is highly sophisticated, characterized by a distributed fiber optic architecture. It supports Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), enabling high-speed internet calls rather than relying on traditional lines. This network interfaces seamlessly with global technologies, facilitating anonymous cyber-attacks and funding through Virtual Private Networks (VPNs). Additionally, it comprises an Autonomous System (AS), Internet Protocol (IP), a range of IP addresses, a satellite, and other installations that will be elaborated upon shortly. (here)
Just as antidote for the orientalism about the outdated-obsolete-antiquated-archaic pager communications in H.'s military wing.
I wish you the all best. Regards, --87.170.202.11 (talk) 15:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comments. The source says "
In his view, the procurement of pagers and walkie-talkies was intended to “carry out daily tasks,”
" but doesn't explicitly say that pagers were mainly used for civilian tasks. If you have any sources, please link them. - Do you have any specific edit request you'd like to make? You can make that as an edit request at Talk:2024 Lebanon pager explosions.VR (Please ping on reply) 15:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- No, I can not. It is "protected". --87.170.202.11 (talk) 15:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see Daniel Case protected it. Per WP:ARBECR, you are allowed to make a specific edit request in the "Talk:" namespace. I suppose you can write your edit request here. Daniel, if they make a specific edit request here, am I allowed to then (assuming it's not disruptive) move it to Talk:2024 Lebanon pager explosions? VR (Please ping on reply) 16:02, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- No, I am not allowed to make any specific edit request in that talk-page. I simply can not. I am only allowed to view its source ;-)
- My request would be: 1. We have to add (per The Guardian) that it was the circuit board of the pagers, that was infected with the explosive PETN, not the battery. 2. We have to add that Hezbollah's military wing used since 2008 for its communications its fiber optic network (will look for an other source). But please, I do not want to be disruptive or bothersome. Regards, -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.170.195.60 (talk) 16:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, moved your request.VR (Please ping on reply) 01:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- I would move it to the edit-request section on RFPP. Daniel Case (talk) 00:35, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see Daniel Case protected it. Per WP:ARBECR, you are allowed to make a specific edit request in the "Talk:" namespace. I suppose you can write your edit request here. Daniel, if they make a specific edit request here, am I allowed to then (assuming it's not disruptive) move it to Talk:2024 Lebanon pager explosions? VR (Please ping on reply) 16:02, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- No, I can not. It is "protected". --87.170.202.11 (talk) 15:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
Request
Hello.
In the "Attack" section of the 2024 Hezbollah headquarters strike article, can you actually display the specific bomb Mark 84 bomb with its name, which has been obscured in the Wikilink under the label "2,000-pound bombs", when the other bunker buster bombs like BLU-109 bomb are displayed with their names in the article?
(Also, if units have to be displayed, both the metric and imperial units must be displayed in Misplaced Pages articles, not one or the other. 95% of the world population use only the metric system.)
Thank you. Oirattas (talk) 07:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Oirattas, sure done. 2,000 lbs is just very common to use. VR (Please ping on reply) 07:10, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- Can you add a metric {convert}, like it has been done in the rest of the article? Misplaced Pages articles need to include both units. English Misplaced Pages is not for an American audience only. 95% of the world population use only the metric system in their daily lives, and will not necessearily understand imperial units. If the article was not protected, I would have added the converter myself. Oirattas (talk) 07:24, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- DoneVR (Please ping on reply) 07:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you very much. Oirattas (talk) 07:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- DoneVR (Please ping on reply) 07:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- Can you add a metric {convert}, like it has been done in the rest of the article? Misplaced Pages articles need to include both units. English Misplaced Pages is not for an American audience only. 95% of the world population use only the metric system in their daily lives, and will not necessearily understand imperial units. If the article was not protected, I would have added the converter myself. Oirattas (talk) 07:24, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
CS1 error on October 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel
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Using a terrorist organization as a source
In these edits and , you used Samidoun, an organization proscribed as a terrorist group in Germany and the Netherlands, to support claims about Samir Kuntar’s innocence according to his own account. Samidoun is reported by sources to have ties to or act as a proxy for the PFLP, itself designated a terrorist organization by the US, EU, Canada, and the UK. This is particularly concerning in light of your other recent edits, such as this one , where you introduced a definition of Hezbollah as a "resistance group" in WP:VOICE in the article's very first sentence (especially strange after seeing this ). I believe this falls short of the standards expected in our topic area. ABHammad (talk) 17:54, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oh ffs, that a government says some group is a terrorist organization has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it is a reliable source for some statement. The IDF is a proscribed terrorist organization in Iran, should we not cite it for anything? VR, delete this at your leisure. nableezy - 18:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- Tagging @ScottishFinnishRadish and @Barkeep49, who seem to be the main admins monitoring this area right now, as well as @Aoidh, @ToBeFree. More evidence regarding editor conduct that typically doesn’t reach AE can be found here and should be considered when deciding whether to accept the motion to start a case and afterwards, if it proceeds. ABHammad (talk) 19:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- If you have an issue with the reliability of the source bring it to WP:RSN to determine consensus. The views of nations can be evidence of unreliability, but don't immediately make a source unusable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:22, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- Tagging @ScottishFinnishRadish and @Barkeep49, who seem to be the main admins monitoring this area right now, as well as @Aoidh, @ToBeFree. More evidence regarding editor conduct that typically doesn’t reach AE can be found here and should be considered when deciding whether to accept the motion to start a case and afterwards, if it proceeds. ABHammad (talk) 19:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- Samidoun is a registered charity in Canada. That Israel and some of its allies have determined that suppporting the rights of Palestinian prisoners is an act of terror is not something that determines its reliability. That you can browbeat an editor who is actually editing in good faith and improving articles with these bogus insinuations is indeed one of the things that doesnt typically reach AE but in a rational world would. nableezy - 19:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- I used Samidoun to cite the statement "Kantar denied the accusations and maintained his innocence", not for anything nefarious. Of course, I could have used plenty of much more reliable sources for that statement, and when my mistake was pointed out, I used Guardian and CNN instead. Samidoun's lack of reliability has nothing to do with Germany's unfortunate repression of free speech. For example Al-Jazeera has been banned in Israel yet it remains reliable for wiki standards. When I get the chance, I do plan to write an article on Suppression of free speech during the Israel-Hamas war.VR (Please ping on reply) 19:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
1RR
1 2 Andre🚐 18:43, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Consecutive reverts count as a single one. I deliberately break my reverts into multiple reverts so as to make it easy to follow what I'm doing so that you may object to my edits partially rather than as a whole. That moves us more quickly towards consensus.VR (Please ping on reply) 13:43, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Would you mind showing me where in the policy that is? Andre🚐 13:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- WP:3rr: "A series of consecutively saved reverting edits by one user, with no intervening edits by another user, counts as one revert." VR (Please ping on reply) 13:58, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Would you mind showing me where in the policy that is? Andre🚐 13:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
Photo
Hi, I would like to ask you something, since I cannot edit the page on the Israel and Hamas war, I would like to ask you if you would mind putting up some photos of the events, two photos, one of the events of the raid on the al-Aqsa hospital, and another of the children buried in the refrigerator. the first is called GZ0Ubx4XUAQPot3.jpg, the second GZ6tn3rWkAAQ3RJ.jpg, thank you very much in any case Bajricvasco (talk) 12:16, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bajricvasco For the first one, we would have to get Waleed's permission or public domain release, otherwise it will be deleted. Would you like to enquire with him? Andreas JN466 09:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
ICRC recently posted a video you may find very helpful
It is about international humanitarian law as it relates to Islamic law. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuAG7lU-as
Also, I replied to your comment on my talk page, but didn't notice the request to ping you upon doing so. Note that you can use the Subscribe button to have Misplaced Pages do so automatically. LesbianTiamat (talk) 05:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
Putting in American financial support for Israel in the very first paragraph of the lead
@Vice regent The original goalpost was, ```"Can I write in the Israel lead that it has extensive financial and military backing from the USA?"``` Most people after that, commented about the first paragraph probably because they realized that certain articles already have leads with information included that you have implied shouldn't be in the lead based on WP, but instead are simply not in the first paragraph. Which as my response, to user:Selfstudier, "Possibly, get some sources together and go to the Israeli talk page. I'm not saying that exact wording would be agreed specifically because the USA normally gives around 3-4 billion and Israel spends 27-28 billion on military spending itself. So the word "extenstive" is doing a lot of work. But ~10% is ~10%."
You took my words out of context (as a response to what I assume was a hyperbolic statement from Selfstudier), didn't even cite correctly because lead includes way more than just the first paragraph.
I'm pretty certain we are not supposed to have discussions, regardless of maturity level, across article talk pages. I have no idea what policy it is but either remove the question on Israel talk page and apologize to those you, without consent, pinged across to another article's talk page. Or if you are sincere in wanting to make that change to the Israeli article, rewording and remove those users you pinged including myself.
Thank you,
RCSCott91 (talk) 19:17, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm confused. When you said "go to the Israeli talk page", you meant Talk:Israel, right? And can you clarify what you mean by "because lead includes way more than just the first paragraph"? I believe the context of yours (and selfstudier's comments) was the first paragraph of the lead. Did I misunderstand that? VR (Please ping on reply) 00:39, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Vice regent Don't play that misunderstanding argument. You didn't just ping me and selfstudier to the Israeli talk page. You were trying to make a statement and it wasn't appropriate.
- Either delete the topic and apologize to those you pinged over to the Israeli talk page without their consent or reword your Israeli talk page topic (removing those you pinged) and apologize to them. Failure to do either, I will go to dispute resolution.
- WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE RCSCott91 (talk) 02:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- You're welcome to pursue dispute resolution, but a few points:
- Discussions about changes to a particular article, in this case the article Israel, should happen at the appropriate talk page. There is nothing wrong with starting a discussion there.
- It is assumed that it is ok to ping anyone, unless they have clearly said otherwise. There are advantages to pinging everyone in a discussion. You also have the option of muting notifications from certain users.
- You can't substantially edit your own comment (let alone "delete the topic") after others have responded to it.
- Finally, I'd rather get back to the substance of the issue, which is what should be in the first paragraph as opposed to the rest of the lead.VR (Please ping on reply) 14:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. RCSCott91 (talk) 21:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- You're welcome to pursue dispute resolution, but a few points:
Administrator Noticeboard Notice (October 2024)
There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 04:35, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
- Just a note, I am not accusing you of anything. The AN/I notice is that a media article has accused you of violating Misplaced Pages guidelines, and this media article was mentioned at AN/I. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 04:35, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
As to not drag out AE any longer
Responding to this, I don't disagree, and I'm sure there is other sourcing that presents the information differently. With what was presented and taking a quick look the report wasn't flagrantly incorrect. My point is that AE isn't the venue to look at 40 such diffs, compile or have other editors compile sources for an analysis, and compare the language used, sources available, and how that changes depending on the subject of the article. That's what the evidence and workshop phases of an Arbcom case are for. The fact that you wanted to (and should!) present counter-evidence and analysis shows that the limitations of AE can't handle that. It would be one thing if there were a few examples given, as is often the case, and the subject of the report can reply, but as I'm you're well aware if we start setting up diff analysis tables and wording examinations we'll have a hundred thousand words there in a week. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:55, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- AE not being the venue does not mean it should be referred to ArbCom. It means you should decline to take action. If a user wants to go to ArbCom with that complaint that is their prerogative, you referring a case however is the admins saying ArbCom should deal with this, not that AE should not. nableezy - 20:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- They should deal with it as there is a case on its way. There were also (and have been in the past) accusations that the report and behavior is tendentious. That is something Arbcom should be looking at in the coming case. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish, got it, thanks.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:09, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
CS1 error on Tel al-Sultan attack
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ITN recognition for 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon
On 15 November 2024, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 05:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
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Palestine-Israel articles 5 arbitration case opened
You offered a statement in an arbitration enforcement referral. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Evidence. Please add your evidence by 23:59, 14 December 2024 (UTC), which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee/Party Guide/Introduction. For the Arbitration Committee, SilverLocust 💬 06:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Cite missing from Baalbek
Hi VR. You added a short form reference for "Daher 2024" to Baalbek but there's no "Daher 2024" cite in the article. Could you add the missing cites to the sources section? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:22, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nevermind I was able to confirm that this was Daher 2019 Hezbollah: Mobilization and Power and fix the reference. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 01:49, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- @ActivelyDisinterested, sorry just saw this. Yes that's correct. I had copied and pasted references from other articles without copying and pasting the main sfn ref.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Proposed party at PIA5
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Palestine-Israel articles 5 updates
You are receiving this message because you are on the update list for Palestine-Israel articles 5. The drafters note that the scope of the case was somewhat unclear, and clarify that the scope is The interaction of named parties in the WP:PIA topic area and examination of the WP:AE process that led to two referrals to WP:ARCA
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First, the Committee will accept submissions for new parties for the next three days, until 23:59, 10 December 2024 (UTC). Anyone who wishes to suggest a party to the case may do so by creating a new section on the evidence talk page, providing a reason with WP:DIFFS as to why the user should be added, and notifying the user. After the three-day period ends, no further submission of parties will be considered except in exceptional circumstances. Because the Committee only hears disputes that have failed to be resolved by the usual means, proposed parties should have been recently taken to AE/AN/ANI, and either not sanctioned, or incompletely sanctioned. If a proposed party has not been taken to AE/AN/ANI, evidence is needed as to why such an attempt would have been ineffective.
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Standard notice: Syrian Civil War
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in the Syrian Civil War and ISIL. Due to past disruption in this topic area, the community has authorised uninvolved administrators to impose contentious topics restrictions—such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks—on editors who do not strictly follow Misplaced Pages's policies, expected standards of behaviour, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic. For additional information, please see the guidance on these sanctions. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. |
As a note, per these community-authorized general sanctions, there is a one-revert rule in place for all articles related to the Syrian Civil War and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, broadly construed. This means that an editor in this area may make no more than one revert per article per 24 hour period, unless an obvious exception applies. Please let me know if you have any questions about this. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)