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| ⚫ | == Requested move at ] == | ||
| == Merge of ] into this project == | |||
| ⚫ | ] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ''']]''' 11:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| == Requested move at ] == | |||
| I have started a discussion on ] about making that project a task force of this one, since it is inactive and has so much overlap with our project. See ]. Please contribute your thoughts. Thanks! ] (]) 21:21, 4 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ''']]''' 13:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Requested move at ] == | |||
| :@]: I note that this merger has been completed now, with all the WikiProject Terrorism related articles now having a WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography banner and rating. By my estimates, over half the articles already had a Crime and Criminal Biography banner on them, and of the remainder I looked at, all but one probably should have had the banner added, too. I only saw one article where the crime banner should not have been put on the article, and that was because it was not terrorism in the first place, and should have been classified as a military action instead. Far less painful a migration than previous merges. Well done. - ] (]) 17:03, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 19:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Requested move at ] == | |||
| == Unassessed articles == | |||
| ] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] 02:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ==New category, ]== | |||
| Now that the WP Terrorism articles were tagged with this project (or are, it's not done yet), the unassessed importance articles backlog has gone from 0 to what is looking to be several thousand. I will handle what I can. Well, at least we'll get all of the notifications for articles on article alerts now, I always thought it was really annoying that we didn't. ] (]) 02:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| Editors may have an interest in further populating this category, which at this point only has 11 entries. Thanks. ] (]) 14:28, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :This category sounds like it may conflict with ], but it comes at it from the other side. The difference should be the new category is populated by the crimes themselves, not the films. ] (]) 02:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::@] I think this is a useful category - however, could the distinction you mention be clarified in the description? ] (]) 02:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::And also, your edits confuse me, because you just added it to several pages in the reverse to how you described it. ] (]) 02:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::Yes, I realized I was adding films into the category incorrectly, and either reverted or, interestingly, many of the incorrect films I added were not yet in the correct category and have added those. Of course a descriptor should have been written, thanks for reminding me of the obvious I missed. ] (]) 02:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{u|PARAKANYAA}}, have written a brief descriptor. I've included crimes adapted into theatrical documentaries, should those be here or a separate 'Crimes which are subjects of documentaries'? Thanks for following up on this discussion. ] (]) 02:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | :::::I think as is fine for now, but documentary films category could be OK too. ] (]) 03:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| ::::::Thanks, will leave it as is before making another productive mistake. ] (]) 03:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :@] Do you have any thoughts about making similar categories for TV shows? I think that would be useful, though I don't know how that category scheme works. ] (]) 09:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Interesting idea {{u|PARAKANYAA}}, and while 'Crimes adapted into television shows' and 'Crime drama television shows based on actual events' would duplicate many of the entries in the films category (JFK assassination, Lindbergh kidnapping, etc.) some would be new. Did you have specific shows in mind? Thanks. ] (]) 11:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::@] My first thought was the ] case which had ] made about it (though it’s a loose adaptation so it might not count…) and also some Netflix series I watched ages ago. Surely more, but the Solar Temple case is my pet project onwiki so that’s what sprung to mind. I’ll tell you if I think of more. ] (]) 00:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Thanks {{u|PARAKANYAA}}. The film category has picked up a good number of entries, thanks to everyone here. If you have enough for a television category please go ahead and do that. Many of the promising but "probably-not" television examples may include too much drama and purposely-fictionized events. ] (]) 01:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::@] Yeah if I find like… 5 or so that have straightforward adaptions I might make it. But not now. | |||
| :::::Relatedly, how direct of an adaptation do you think should go in the category? No inspired by just direct? I want to keep this in mind when I tag things. ] (]) 01:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I'd say spot-on direct. Inspired by would include such fictional renditions as '']'' and many ''Law and Order'' episodes, clearly tangential to the topic. Things like the ] adhered to the facts enough that it would fit the crime (the Atlanta Olympic bombing). ] (]) 09:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | :::::::Makes sense. Thanks, I will keep that in mind while tagging. ] (]) 21:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| == Possible rename of ] == | |||
| ⚫ | : |
||
| ::@]: Thanks for all the hard work. - ] (]) 17:04, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I have opened up a pre-requested move discussion of the title of this article, since it is not accurately reflective of the coverage on this topic. Please contribute your thoughts ], thank you :) ] (]) 03:37, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Consensus to split into subpages? == | |||
| == Categorizing criminals whose existence is disputed == | |||
| I'm partially neutral on this but while changing all the page names for ] I realized they use the subpage method of organization, while we have everything on one page. I think it is clearer organizationally if we do it that way, but didn't want to do it without consensus. For example, we could split resources/participants/recognized content/open tasks off to their own pages. thanks :D ] (]) 00:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I have noticed there are several alleged criminals who are in the category ] is disputed and it's subcategories. This seems to me to be less than ideal. I do not think we should place people whose even existence is disputed directly in the crime categories. I think we should maybe make a parallel tree, probably much less developed, for criminals whose existence is disputed. What do others think.] (]) 14:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I think having all the WikiProject content on one page makes it easier to see what is going on with a WikiProject. Having multiple pages poses the risk of ], where information on one page conflicts with similar information on another. While it is a good idea to have separate pages for each task force of a WikiProject, having a centralized page for the overall WikiProject reduces the number of different pages one needs to keep an eye on to just one. I see sub-pages as mostly being for sections of the main project page that you want people to contribute to, without actually editing the main project page itself. The content might appear on the main project page in an abbreviated form but editing takes place on the sub-page, like documentation sub-pages for templates, where one does not want the template page to be updated. However, I don't see the need for that approach here, at the moment. - ] (]) 17:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | :: |
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| :How many people can there possibly be that this applies to? ] (]) 16:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Renaming ] Article == | |||
| ::A good portion are possibly existent pirates. However I think we have about 5 articles on murderers, maybe a few more, and a few motored on bandits.] (]) 21:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::In that case I agree it's odd. I think it depends. Disputed but viewed as historical by a decent amount I'd say is OK. Purely legendary figures, no. ] (]) 21:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Scope question == | |||
| I started a discussion on the ] for the article ], regarding a potential name change; I decided to post here to get more opinions. | |||
| Do you think that war-related activities that involve terrorist groups as participants should be in scope ''generally''? For example, battles that involved ISIS and their control of territory. This has always bothered me when it comes to scoping because it feels more like a MILHIST deal, since their status as terrorists is not super relevant as a designation in that context vs them being a fighting force. I would say no, I do not think the war and the battles and stuff are within the purview of WPTERROR or WPCRIMEBIO. However, acts of terror or war crimes would be. ] (]) 00:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I'm currently working on addressing a severe lack of sources and prevalence of factual errors, rearranging the article, and adding additional information, and I figured it might be helpful to first hear opinions on a potential renaming of the article after the crime victims rather than the perpetrator, before I get too far with making more rearrangements. Renaming the article would require a drastic rearrangement of almost all the information currently present. | |||
| :Isn't MILHIST mostly inactive anyway? ] (]) 03:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::@] No? It is by far the most active wiki project. ] (]) 04:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::You are kidding. I keep finding articles on battles and wars which have never been tagged and never been assessed. I thought it went the way of the ] years ago. ] (]) 04:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::@] With project tagging, the thing is they can be hard to find if they aren’t shortly after they’re created, and the scope is so broad any query would catch a lot of other stuff. This project is pretty active and I tag old articles with it all the time. ] (]) 04:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :@]: If one looks at what ] classifies as crime, (See , pp 23-31), it has a high level category for "''Unlawful killing associated with armed conflict.''" (''107''), it also has categories for "''Terrorism''" (''0906'') as well as a range of "''Acts under universal jurisdiction''" (''1101''), which includes war crimes, genocide, and similar crimes against humanity. What this indicates to me is that the UN does not consider an armed conflict, of itself, to be crime and it is how those authorities dealing with the armed conflict react to the various acts that are perpetrated that counts. A purely military response, therefore, is not a response to crime, but a seeking out of the perpetrators and "''bringing them to justice''" is. While this may be a grey area, I think war-related activities that involve terrorist (or other armed) groups is outside the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, generally, and should instead be included in WikiProject Military History. However, where a criminal response is involved, then that falls in-scope; so a government declaring an individual or organisation to be a "''terrorist''" would mean an article about that person or organisation, such as a biography or profile, ''could'' be included in this project, but an article about the military battles the organisation has with other military organisations, wouldn't be automatically included. What could be included are acts that involve the indiscriminate targeting of civilians not involved in the conflict where these acts are treated as crimes, rather than the collateral damage of war. Thus, the military battles with ISIS for the control of territory are outside scope, but their destruction of cultural objects and their treatment of non-combatant civilians and women are inside scope, in my opinion. - ] (]) 20:23, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::I agree with this. ] (]) 21:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| Long story short, I proposed changing the name of the article to '''Clearview triple murders''', or something similar; due to there having been three victims (Renae Wicklund, Shannah Wicklund, and Barbara Hendrickson), I'd be hesitant to name it after any of the victims or place any of their surnames in the title, but I can also see if that title naming it after the city might seem vague, or if it could be argued that Campbell was a sufficiently historically noteworthy figure to make the article's current title appropriate. (I also want to be clear that '''I don't really want to have a discussion here; I'd rather the discussion be on the article's talk page linked above''', where I have gone into more and better detail about my thoughts.) ] (]) 12:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I just created ]. It may be of interest to members of this project. ] (]) 03:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ⚫ | == Requested move at ] == | ||
| ⚫ | ] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] |
||
| == Lizzy Seeberg == | |||
| I'm not sure the ] article meets ]; I re-worded some of the article but I would like other editors to take a look ] (]) 06:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Good article reassessment for ] == | |||
| ] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] (]) 16:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Good article reassessment for ] == | |||
| ] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] (]) 16:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 17:01, 28 December 2024
 | To help centralize discussions and keep related topics together, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Organized crime task force, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Serial Killer task force and Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Terrorism task force redirect here. |
| This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 31 days  |
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| Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
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Organized crime project discussion pages (now redirects here):
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This page has archives. Sections older than 31 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Requested move at Talk:Battle of Aleppo (2024)#Requested move 30 November 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Battle of Aleppo (2024)#Requested move 30 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Abo Yemen✉ 11:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Yemeni civil war (2014–present)#Requested move 7 December 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Yemeni civil war (2014–present)#Requested move 7 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Abo Yemen✉ 13:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Quinn brothers' killings#Requested move 9 December 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Quinn brothers' killings#Requested move 9 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Expectation of privacy (United States)#Requested move 25 November 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Expectation of privacy (United States)#Requested move 25 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 02:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
New category, Category:Crimes adapted into films
Editors may have an interest in further populating this category, which at this point only has 11 entries. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:28, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- This category sounds like it may conflict with Category:Crime drama films based on actual events, but it comes at it from the other side. The difference should be the new category is populated by the crimes themselves, not the films. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn I think this is a useful category - however, could the distinction you mention be clarified in the description? PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- And also, your edits confuse me, because you just added it to several pages in the reverse to how you described it. PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I realized I was adding films into the category incorrectly, and either reverted or, interestingly, many of the incorrect films I added were not yet in the correct category and have added those. Of course a descriptor should have been written, thanks for reminding me of the obvious I missed. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- PARAKANYAA, have written a brief descriptor. I've included crimes adapted into theatrical documentaries, should those be here or a separate 'Crimes which are subjects of documentaries'? Thanks for following up on this discussion. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think as is fine for now, but documentary films category could be OK too. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, will leave it as is before making another productive mistake. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think as is fine for now, but documentary films category could be OK too. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- PARAKANYAA, have written a brief descriptor. I've included crimes adapted into theatrical documentaries, should those be here or a separate 'Crimes which are subjects of documentaries'? Thanks for following up on this discussion. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I realized I was adding films into the category incorrectly, and either reverted or, interestingly, many of the incorrect films I added were not yet in the correct category and have added those. Of course a descriptor should have been written, thanks for reminding me of the obvious I missed. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn Do you have any thoughts about making similar categories for TV shows? I think that would be useful, though I don't know how that category scheme works. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting idea PARAKANYAA, and while 'Crimes adapted into television shows' and 'Crime drama television shows based on actual events' would duplicate many of the entries in the films category (JFK assassination, Lindbergh kidnapping, etc.) some would be new. Did you have specific shows in mind? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn My first thought was the 1995 Vercors massacre case which had Anthracite (TV series) made about it (though it’s a loose adaptation so it might not count…) and also some Netflix series I watched ages ago. Surely more, but the Solar Temple case is my pet project onwiki so that’s what sprung to mind. I’ll tell you if I think of more. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks PARAKANYAA. The film category has picked up a good number of entries, thanks to everyone here. If you have enough for a television category please go ahead and do that. Many of the promising but "probably-not" television examples may include too much drama and purposely-fictionized events. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn Yeah if I find like… 5 or so that have straightforward adaptions I might make it. But not now.
- Relatedly, how direct of an adaptation do you think should go in the category? No inspired by just direct? I want to keep this in mind when I tag things. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'd say spot-on direct. Inspired by would include such fictional renditions as The Fugitive and many Law and Order episodes, clearly tangential to the topic. Things like the Richard Jewell series adhered to the facts enough that it would fit the crime (the Atlanta Olympic bombing). Randy Kryn (talk) 09:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Makes sense. Thanks, I will keep that in mind while tagging. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'd say spot-on direct. Inspired by would include such fictional renditions as The Fugitive and many Law and Order episodes, clearly tangential to the topic. Things like the Richard Jewell series adhered to the facts enough that it would fit the crime (the Atlanta Olympic bombing). Randy Kryn (talk) 09:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks PARAKANYAA. The film category has picked up a good number of entries, thanks to everyone here. If you have enough for a television category please go ahead and do that. Many of the promising but "probably-not" television examples may include too much drama and purposely-fictionized events. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn My first thought was the 1995 Vercors massacre case which had Anthracite (TV series) made about it (though it’s a loose adaptation so it might not count…) and also some Netflix series I watched ages ago. Surely more, but the Solar Temple case is my pet project onwiki so that’s what sprung to mind. I’ll tell you if I think of more. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting idea PARAKANYAA, and while 'Crimes adapted into television shows' and 'Crime drama television shows based on actual events' would duplicate many of the entries in the films category (JFK assassination, Lindbergh kidnapping, etc.) some would be new. Did you have specific shows in mind? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Possible rename of Bærum mosque shooting
I have opened up a pre-requested move discussion of the title of this article, since it is not accurately reflective of the coverage on this topic. Please contribute your thoughts here, thank you :) PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:37, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Categorizing criminals whose existence is disputed
I have noticed there are several alleged criminals who are in the category Category:People whose existence is disputed is disputed and it's subcategories. This seems to me to be less than ideal. I do not think we should place people whose even existence is disputed directly in the crime categories. I think we should maybe make a parallel tree, probably much less developed, for criminals whose existence is disputed. What do others think.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- How many people can there possibly be that this applies to? PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- A good portion are possibly existent pirates. However I think we have about 5 articles on murderers, maybe a few more, and a few motored on bandits.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- In that case I agree it's odd. I think it depends. Disputed but viewed as historical by a decent amount I'd say is OK. Purely legendary figures, no. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- A good portion are possibly existent pirates. However I think we have about 5 articles on murderers, maybe a few more, and a few motored on bandits.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Scope question
Do you think that war-related activities that involve terrorist groups as participants should be in scope generally? For example, battles that involved ISIS and their control of territory. This has always bothered me when it comes to scoping because it feels more like a MILHIST deal, since their status as terrorists is not super relevant as a designation in that context vs them being a fighting force. I would say no, I do not think the war and the battles and stuff are within the purview of WPTERROR or WPCRIMEBIO. However, acts of terror or war crimes would be. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Isn't MILHIST mostly inactive anyway? Dimadick (talk) 03:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Dimadick No? It is by far the most active wiki project. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- You are kidding. I keep finding articles on battles and wars which have never been tagged and never been assessed. I thought it went the way of the dodo years ago. Dimadick (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Dimadick With project tagging, the thing is they can be hard to find if they aren’t shortly after they’re created, and the scope is so broad any query would catch a lot of other stuff. This project is pretty active and I tag old articles with it all the time. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- You are kidding. I keep finding articles on battles and wars which have never been tagged and never been assessed. I thought it went the way of the dodo years ago. Dimadick (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Dimadick No? It is by far the most active wiki project. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PARAKANYAA: If one looks at what UNODC classifies as crime, (See ICCS, pp 23-31), it has a high level category for "Unlawful killing associated with armed conflict." (107), it also has categories for "Terrorism" (0906) as well as a range of "Acts under universal jurisdiction" (1101), which includes war crimes, genocide, and similar crimes against humanity. What this indicates to me is that the UN does not consider an armed conflict, of itself, to be crime and it is how those authorities dealing with the armed conflict react to the various acts that are perpetrated that counts. A purely military response, therefore, is not a response to crime, but a seeking out of the perpetrators and "bringing them to justice" is. While this may be a grey area, I think war-related activities that involve terrorist (or other armed) groups is outside the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, generally, and should instead be included in WikiProject Military History. However, where a criminal response is involved, then that falls in-scope; so a government declaring an individual or organisation to be a "terrorist" would mean an article about that person or organisation, such as a biography or profile, could be included in this project, but an article about the military battles the organisation has with other military organisations, wouldn't be automatically included. What could be included are acts that involve the indiscriminate targeting of civilians not involved in the conflict where these acts are treated as crimes, rather than the collateral damage of war. Thus, the military battles with ISIS for the control of territory are outside scope, but their destruction of cultural objects and their treatment of non-combatant civilians and women are inside scope, in my opinion. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 20:23, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with this. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Violin scam
I just created Violin scam. It may be of interest to members of this project. Thriley (talk) 03:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
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