| Revision as of 03:46, 28 November 2024 editWk472 (talk | contribs)199 edits →November 2024: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 16:54, 19 December 2024 edit undoGoingBatty (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers636,926 edits →November 2024: added Template:Reflist-talk | ||
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| :::There is a bigger issue with that article and I was hoping you would help me address it. The only comment about the psychoactive effects quotes and references a low quality reference (see third paragraph under History). The reference butchers two reports of the effects of ergine and doesn't even cite them (I know what they are because of my education on the topic). So, it's time for a proper representation of the psychoactive effects, so I've taken the liberty of gathering the only comments about this that have ever been published and I'm providing them here. I'd like someone with experience paraphrasing to parapharse them. ➜ | :::There is a bigger issue with that article and I was hoping you would help me address it. The only comment about the psychoactive effects quotes and references a low quality reference (see third paragraph under History). The reference butchers two reports of the effects of ergine and doesn't even cite them (I know what they are because of my education on the topic). So, it's time for a proper representation of the psychoactive effects, so I've taken the liberty of gathering the only comments about this that have ever been published and I'm providing them here. I'd like someone with experience paraphrasing to parapharse them. ➜ | ||
| :::There is a bigger issue with that article and I was hoping you would help me address it. The only comment about the psychoactive effects quotes and references a low quality reference (see third paragraph under History). The reference butchers two reports of the effects of ergine and doesn't even cite them (I know what they are because of my education on the topic). So, it's time for a proper representation of the psychoactive effects, so I've taken the liberty of gathering the only comments about this that have ever been published and I'm providing them here. I'd like someone with experience paraphrasing to parapharse them. ➜ | :::There is a bigger issue with that article and I was hoping you would help me address it. The only comment about the psychoactive effects quotes and references a low quality reference (see third paragraph under History). The reference butchers two reports of the effects of ergine and doesn't even cite them (I know what they are because of my education on the topic). So, it's time for a proper representation of the psychoactive effects, so I've taken the liberty of gathering the only comments about this that have ever been published and I'm providing them here. I'd like someone with experience paraphrasing to parapharse them. ➜ | ||
| {{redacted}} | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ] (]) 03:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::D-lysergic acid amide (designation of compound undergoing tests: LA 111) was tested pharmacologically and clinically during the course of investigations on d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD 25) and related compounds long before it was known to be a component of ololiuhqui. Already at that stage we had, in experiments on ourselves, ascertained a psychotomimetic activity with a marked narcotic component with dosages of 0.5 to 1 mg. The following paragraph is taken from a hitherto unpublished record of the first experiment which the writer performed upon himself with LA 111 on 30.10.1947. | |||
| :::::Thanks for your reply, Wk472. I do appreciate your efforts to improve the article. You put a lot effort into your work, and I respect that. To maintain the integrity of the article ''and'' your work, all editors need to respect WP policy. I think you may be quoting the source excessively here on your talk page. This would constitute violation of copyright, which WP respects and enforces vigorously when violations are detected, even on talk pages. I've of the WP copyvio task force to take a look, as explicit sizable copyvio must be reverted and deleted (revdeled), which only an admin can do. I noticed also that you added a good bit of quotation to the article, but that seems to be okay, at least to me. Because I'm not an expert on copyvio, I've asked Diannaa to take a look at that too. Please don't freak out if she posts an alarming template here, it's just procedure.;-) 16:14, 28 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::“I do appreciate your efforts to improve the article. You put a lot effort into your work, and I respect that.” | |||
| :::::10.00 h: Intramuscular injection of 0.5 ml of 1 per mille solution of LA 111 ( = 0.5 mg d-lysergic acid amide). | |||
| ::::::Thank you. I just put ''a lot'' of work into the most neglected section of the article. The section consists primarily of quotes, but please, everyone keep these things in mind: | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::- Due to the nature of subjective experience, the words that describe such experiences tend to be unique | |||
| :::::11.00 h: Tiredness in the neck, slight nausea. | |||
| ::::::- There are only a few publications that describe the effects of pure ergine, and none of them are that detailed. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::- All of these publications are rare. Most people wouldn't even know where to look to find commets about ergine. | |||
| :::::11.05 h: Tired, dreamy, incapable of clear thoughts. Very sensitive to noises which give an unpleasant sensation. | |||
| ::::::- I made an effort to trim away any non-essential text. ] (]) 06:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :::::Hello Wk472. I have removed the quotations from the above post. It's a lot of non-free content, which we are not supposed to host unless absolutely necessary. Sorry, but it's not realistic for you to expect someone to look over this material and make it suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. That's a task each of us has to do ourselves. I see you are a new user, so a good place to begin learning how to effectively edit Misplaced Pages is to visit ]. ] (]) 22:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::11.10 h: Desire to lie down and sleep. Genuine physical and mental tiredness, which is not experienced as an unpleasant sensation. Slept for 3 hours. | |||
| ::::::Regarding your recent edit of ] (), this is what ChatGPT says: | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::{{quote|1=The '''Botanical Museum Leaflets''', published by the Harvard University Herbaria during the 1950s and 1960s, are generally considered to be in the public domain. The Biodiversity Heritage Library (BHL) indicates that volumes from this period are no longer under copyright protection. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/7542?utm_source=chatgpt.com | |||
| :::::15.00 h: Return of normal condition with full capacity for performing work. | |||
| ::::::Additionally, the Online Books Page, which tracks copyright renewals, does not list any renewals for this publication. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/cce/firstperiod.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com | |||
| ::::This action of d-lysergic acid amide was later confirmed by the comparative systematic investigation of H. Solms.<sup>26 27</sup> He describes the action as follows: LA 111 induces indifference, a decrease in psychomotor activity, the feeling of sinking into nothingness and a desire to sleep . . . until finally an increased clouding of consciousness does produce sleep. | |||
| ::::::However, it's important to note that while the publications themselves may be in the public domain, the Harvard University Herbaria retains copyright over images of herbarium-owned material. These images can be reproduced without modification for scholarly and general publications, provided that the source is properly acknowledged. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::https://huh.harvard.edu/pages/images-digital-collections?utm_source=chatgpt.com | |||
| ::::Clinical investigations have been initiated with d-isolysergic acid amide but no results are available yet. Upon taking 2 mg. of isoergine himself, the writer experienced tiredness, apathy, a feeling of mental emptiness and of the unreality and complete meaninglessness of the outside world. | |||
| ::::::For non-scholarly publications, permission is required, and publication fees may apply. | |||
| :::Source: The active principles of the seeds of Rivea Corymbosa and Ipomoea violacea. Albert Hofmann. Harvard Botanical Museum Leaflets. 20, 6 (1963), 208–209. https://archive.org/details/biostor-160836 (Pharmacological and clinical activity of the isolated alkaloids, pages 208-209) | |||
| ::::::https://huh.harvard.edu/pages/permission-publish-images?utm_source=chatgpt.com | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::In summary, while the textual content of the '''Botanical Museum Leaflets''' from the 1950s and 1960s is likely in the public domain, any associated images may still be subject to copyright restrictions. It's advisable to consult the Harvard University Herbaria's guidelines or contact them directly for specific usage permissions.}} | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::::Also, you didn't just erase the Harvard quote, you also erased the note hinting to the reader that ''Ipomoea violacea'' is no longer considered to be a synonym for ''I. tricolor''.<ref>{{Cite book | author = Eich E |url=https://www.google.com/books/edition/Solanaceae_and_Convolvulaceae_Secondary/ZpYtUED_DSsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=pa224 |title=Solanaceae and convolvulaceae - secondary metabolites: biosynthesis, chemotaxonomy, biological and economic significance: a handbook |publisher=Springer-Verlag |isbn=978-3-540-74540-2 |location=Berlin, Heidelberg |publication-date=January 12, 2008 |language=En |chapter=4.2.3 Occurrence in the Convolvulaceae (p. 224) |doi=10.1007/978-3-540-74541-9 |oclc=195613136}}</ref> The link for this reference will take you to the relevant paragraph in Google Books. You also removed my encouraging comment for people to see my Psychedelic Effects section of Ergine, a debut of previously obscure comments about the effects of isolated ergine (for perspective, compare the current ergine Misplaced Pages article to , which was made by drug enthusiasts: junk. The second paragraph of that article is the equivalent of my Psychedelic Effects section. I tried to improve that article as well, but they're stricter about edits there and they ignore peoples' attempts to contact them. That comment was the equivalent of Misplaced Pages's feature of frequently link relaying readers to other Wikip articles, and it was my use of a link in the postscript (against protocol) that caused Donald Albury to freak out (), leading to your edit. ] (]) 18:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::a) ᴅ-lysergic acid amide | |||
| {{reflist-talk}} | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::The expression and behavior of the test subjects changed just 45 minutes after taking the substance: the test subjects appeared to be suffering, their facial expressions were deteriorating as if they had suffered a serious illness, and their movements were noticeably slower. The speaking voice showed a decrease in volume, pitch, melody, dynamics and tempo. In the following test cross-sections, these changes increased, and they finally appeared sleepy and apathetic. Test subject EH, who had taken 3 mg (= 0.04 mg per kilogram of body weight), recovered after about 3-4 hours; test subject SB, who had taken 6 mg (= 0.09 mg per kilogram of body weight), had to go to bed after an antineoplastic injection and did not recover until the following day. In the self-reports of both test subjects, complaints about vegetative symptoms predominated: unpleasant, flu-like feeling of illness, nausea, sudden onset of nausea, with vomiting that could be stopped with 2 cm<sup>3</sup> of Cyclicinum hydrochloricum. In addition, sensations of heat, sweating, dizziness, a feeling of heaviness and general tiredness were observed. Test subject SB (6 mg) woke up in the middle of the night with precordial pain and shortness of breath and at the same time suffered from severe unmotivated anxiety. There were no thought disorders, changes in mood (apart from a clear dysphoria) and significant changes in consciousness. | |||
| ==Recent edit reversion== | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| In this edit , I reverted some information that appears to be a violation of our ]. | |||
| ::::<sup>3</sup> <small>We would like to take this opportunity to once again thank all our colleagues for their cooperation.</small> | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| I provided a brief summary of the problem in the edit summary, which should be visible just below my name. You can also click on the "view history" tab in the article to see the recent history of the article. This should be an edit with my name, and a parenthetical comment explaining why your edit was reverted. If that information is not sufficient to explain the situation, please ask. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::b) ᴅ-isolysergic acid amide | |||
| You suggested that the copyright holders of the text you used might be "cool" with you using it. I have no insight into their views about use of copyrighted material, but I do know something about the views of Misplaced Pages. If the copyright holders I willing to provide written permission it can be used otherwise not. I am aware that you use the material as part of a quote. I trust you are familiar with the fact that material otherwise subject to copyright can be used if properly quoted and attributed end of the quote is sufficiently short. While there is no simple number of words that constitutes acceptability, it is my opinion that this quote is far too long to be considered a reasonable use. (The passage includes about 250 words). If you disagree it might be appropriate to poll other editors with experience in this area. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::The expression and behavior of the test subjects changed in the first study period, towards a state of dozing, from which they could easily be brought back into a friendly and present attitude by calling. In the following study period, they showed relaxation, a contented, not lifeless facial expression. In the fourth and fifth study periods, however, they appeared to be sufferingly exhausted and even sleepy and dazed. The speaking voice showed a reduction in dynamics, melody and pitch during the second to fifth study periods, while volume and tempo returned to their original values after an initial reduction in the last three study periods. | |||
| I do occasionally make mistakes. We get hundreds of reports of potential copyright violations every week, and sometimes there are false positives, for a variety of reasons. (Perhaps the material was moved from another Misplaced Pages article, or the material was properly licensed but the license information was not obvious, or the material is in the public domain but I didn't realize it was public domain, and there can be other situations generating a report to our Copy Patrol tool that turn out not to be actual copyright violations.) If you think my edit was mistaken, please politely let me know and I will investigate. ]] 02:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::The results of the descriptions of the experiences parallel the changes in expression: after a relatively short phase of dozing, all test subjects felt relaxed and comfortable, sometimes even a little euphoric. They seemed to overestimate their performance capabilities. Paraesthesia and individual synesthesia were noted, as well as an overestimation of the time that had passed. In the fourth and fifth study cross-sections, they complained of difficulty in thinking and a lack of ideas. | |||
| == Ergonovine == | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::In the test subject PS (5 mg), severe nausea with a drop in blood pressure suddenly occurred after 3½ hours, which was controlled with analeptics and antinausea after about 30 minutes. At the same time, the test subject experienced a feeling of total annihilation and fear of death, which subsided after vomiting about 60 minutes later, but only completely subsided during the course of the night. | |||
| Hi there! In your recent edit to the ], you introduced some errors in reference #25. Could you please fix this to remove the red errors? Thanks! ] (]) 21:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :I'd rather consult w/ the administration about this. The error is that I'm includinga linked reference within a reference: that's against protocol. But that doesn't necessarily mean the admin is against such, just that they didn't think of such a feature when designing the site. Wikip has a frequently-used feature that hyperlinks text in articles to point to other wikip articles, so they obviously like to promote further reading of Wikip, which is in accord with what my note at the bottom of the reference is doing. So, maybe they'll see this incident and allow for "refs-within-refs". ] (]) 00:35, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Discussion | |||
| ::And what administration would that be? The Foundation runs the servers and pays the developers, while the Misplaced Pages community is responsible for the ] that govern the content of Misplaced Pages and the behavior of its editors. Frankly, I cannot make sense of what you are saying. There is no logical reason to put a reference inside a reference. It is possible to include references within extended footnotes, but you have to use ] to do so, and extended footnotes should not be used as references. If you have a proposal for changing the way references are handled in Misplaced Pages, you need to bring up it at ]. In the meantime, follow the guidance on ], lest you be accused of violating the guideline at ]. ] 03:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :::Welp, now the reference is spic-and-span. I even improved the formatting in the source code, giving each attribute its own line (that was the cause of the "line feed" error, by the way: you can't use keyboard line breaks in postscripts, only <nowiki><br></nowiki>s), and adding a publisher (I happened upon JSTOR's web page for this essay and it included a publisher in its citation, which I had never seen before). I also added the page range: JSTOR includes the page count in parentheses after the page range, and that delighted me, so I copied that here (gives the reader a sense of how much substance there is to a reference). Now the only potential issue is that it's a rather wordy reference, but as you might have seen from my work, I'm a fan of wordy references. I don't like the idea of engraving a statement and providing a reference with no indication of what particular section of the reference is relevant: when people do that, it's like saying "trust me, bro". Some publications even leave out the title of the article, only typing the journal and volume, and in butchered abbreviations, at that. | |||
| ::::The comparison of the effects of the partial alkaloids and their combinations shows strikingly small differences. In all cases we obtained mild to moderate intoxication states, which lasted beyond the three-hour observation period at higher doses and were characterized by a predominance of unpleasant vegetative sensations. These made the experiments very painful for the test subjects and led us to limit the study to a few experiments. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| “It is possible to include references within extended footnotes, but you have to use ] to do so,” | |||
| ::::The analysis of the expression phenomena and relative behavior primarily shows these progressive changes in the state of being: mood shifts mostly in the direction of dysphoria, in low doses occasionally euphoria and reduced vigilance. In higher doses, slowing of motor behavior, expressive movements and speech and dosed apathy can be observed. This and a delay in the readiness to react show that primarily a clouding of consciousness is present. In the small number of experiments, a differentiation between the effects of the individual alkaloids on the level of experience could only be carried out with the help of a symptom distribution. Here, ᴅ-lysergic acid amide showed lesser vegetative, but stronger changes in thinking, affectivity and consciousness. The symptom distribution of the total alkaloids shows that this is a combination of the individual alkaloids tested and that the alkaloids not tested or the combination of the alkaloids tested by us do not result in any new qualities of effect. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| Elaborate on that. Currently, the last line of text in the reference in question is “See the Psychedelic Effects section of Ergine for more comments.” If that sentence was anywhere else on Misplaced Pages, it would look like this: “See the ] for more comments.” | |||
| ::::Our first question can therefore be answered by saying that the alkaloids we tested and the total alkaloid mixture differ only insignificantly in their effects. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| You're telling me that I can use ] to get something similar to that within a footnote? | |||
| ::::In contrast to psilocybin (Hᴇɪᴍᴀɴɴ, 1961, 1965), we do not find any qualitative modification with a phased course under ololiuhqui. Rather, there is a progressive intoxication, which can be demonstrated both in expression and behavior as well as in an impairment of concentration. There is a parallel between the impairment of mental performance and the objectively observable changes in expression and behavior, in contrast to the phase shift of the two criteria observed under psilocybin (maximum impairment of the ability to concentrate in the first phase of the study, where expression and behavior are only slightly impaired, maximum of the changes in expression in the third phase of the study, where the results in the concentration tests are already approaching the initial values). As we have explained elsewhere, the course of the effects of the model psychoses in the narrower sense<sup>4</sup> shows a qualitative modification that depends on the duration of exposure to the drug, which, however, can only be proven with a test method that takes temporal relationships into account (Hᴇɪᴍᴀɴɴ, 1961). | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ] (]) 09:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Ololiuhqui differs fundamentally from the previously known Phantastica in that only very slight perceptual disturbances occurred, in particular visual hallucinations were almost completely absent. The other symptoms mentioned, e.g. the changes in the perception of time, the body schema, the loosening and impoverishment as well as the slowing down of the thought process and the changes in mood are also relatively discrete, in any case by no means as pronounced as with LSD 25 or psilocybin. They fall within the framework of what can be observed in mild somnolence and intoxication of a non-specific nature. Our results agree with the results of the investigations by Iꜱʙᴇʟʟ and Gᴏʀᴏᴅᴇᴛᴢᴋʏ, who observed only conscious disturbances without hallucinations with extract from ololiuhqui seeds and a synthetic alkaloid mixture of ololiuhqui alkaloids. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :You can use ] to create an explanatory footnote. You have to place ] at the end of the article, generally just before ], to have the explanatory footnotes show in the article. You can then place citations, using either <nowiki><ref> ... </ref></nowiki> or ], as appropriate, within the explanatory footnote. See ] for an example of how I have used Efn. ] 22:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::: | |||
| ::I see, you were suggesting that I "mirror" the citation with a footnote (Efn). And I'm also dismayed to see that ] butchered all my "elaborate" citations, under the pretext of copyright violation, even though none of them were actually in violation of copyright. I have a little exercise for you if you're interested: Go to the Psychedelic Effects section of and read it and hover your mouse cursor over all of the citations. And then do the same thing with the current version and tell me which one was a more enjoyable, educating experience. ] (]) 22:44, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::Our experiments with ᴅ-lysergic acid amide also confirm the results that Sᴏʟᴍꜱ had made with this substance, namely a predominantly sedative intoxication. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::<sup>4</sup> <small>z.B. Psilocybin.</small> | |||
| :::Source: Die psychische Wirkung der mexikanischen Droge „Ololiuqui“ am Menschen. Heim, E., Heimann, H. & Lukács, G. Psychopharmacologia 13, 35–48 (1968). DOI: 10.1007/BF00401617. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00401617 | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::3. The effective doses of LA are the same as for LAE, but LA induces greater indifference, a decrease in psychomotor activity, and a desire to sleep much more strongly than does LAE, until finally an increased clouding of consciousness produces sleep. LA may provoke sleep after one-half to one hour; if the subject is not awakened, sleep lasts approximately two hours. If the dose of LA is increased, no certain hallucinatory experiences can be noticed, but uncomfortable autonomic disturbances do occur, such as, hypersalivation, emesis, dizziness and diarrhea; sometimes irritative depressive moods occur concomitantly. Because of these symptoms the tolerance point was considered reached. | |||
| :::<br> | |||
| ::::With middle to strong doses in 1 subject work became increasingly difficult after 30 minutes. After forty minutes he began yawning and experienced a sensation of inability to use the limbs, a feeling of sinking into nothing, impaired concentration, and an immediate desire to sleep, after which he slept for three hours during the day. | |||
| :::Source: Relationships between chemical structure and psychoses with the use of psychotoxic substances. Solms H. 1956. J. Clin. Exper. Psychopath. 17:429. https://taz4.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=4195&S=MPA ] (]) 03:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 16:54, 19 December 2024
Welcome!
Hi Wk472! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Misplaced Pages community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.
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Happy editing! :Jay8g 07:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
November 2024
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Misplaced Pages, as you did at User:Carlstak. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Donald Albury 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Donald Albury Excuse me? he reversed an important Ergine edit and I was trying to communicate to him that the edit was correct. Wk472 (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- The proper way to respond was to ask User:Carlstak about his edits on his talk page, or, better, on the article talk page (with a note on his talk page), which is where discussions about article content should take place, unless it becomes apparent that a wide venue is appropriate. With very limited exceptions, you should not be editng a user's user page. You placed a second copy of all of Carlstak's userboxes under the existing userboxes, and then dumped a lot of text without context below many blank lines. I saw it as vandanalism, and I still see it as vandalism. Donald Albury 20:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- All that text was unnecessary anyway to get your point across, Wk472. I've changed Ipomoea violacea back to the proper Ipomoea tricolor. The change was inadvertent, as I was referring to the outdated nomenclature used in the 1961 paper by R. Gordon Wasson. Carlstak (talk) 20:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- There is a bigger issue with that article and I was hoping you would help me address it. The only comment about the psychoactive effects quotes and references a low quality reference (see third paragraph under History). The reference butchers two reports of the effects of ergine and doesn't even cite them (I know what they are because of my education on the topic). So, it's time for a proper representation of the psychoactive effects, so I've taken the liberty of gathering the only comments about this that have ever been published and I'm providing them here. I'd like someone with experience paraphrasing to parapharse them. ➜
- There is a bigger issue with that article and I was hoping you would help me address it. The only comment about the psychoactive effects quotes and references a low quality reference (see third paragraph under History). The reference butchers two reports of the effects of ergine and doesn't even cite them (I know what they are because of my education on the topic). So, it's time for a proper representation of the psychoactive effects, so I've taken the liberty of gathering the only comments about this that have ever been published and I'm providing them here. I'd like someone with experience paraphrasing to parapharse them. ➜
(Redacted)
Wk472 (talk) 03:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply, Wk472. I do appreciate your efforts to improve the article. You put a lot effort into your work, and I respect that. To maintain the integrity of the article and your work, all editors need to respect WP policy. I think you may be quoting the source excessively here on your talk page. This would constitute violation of copyright, which WP respects and enforces vigorously when violations are detected, even on talk pages. I've asked Diannaa of the WP copyvio task force to take a look, as explicit sizable copyvio must be reverted and deleted (revdeled), which only an admin can do. I noticed also that you added a good bit of quotation to the article, but that seems to be okay, at least to me. Because I'm not an expert on copyvio, I've asked Diannaa to take a look at that too. Please don't freak out if she posts an alarming template here, it's just procedure.;-) 16:14, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- “I do appreciate your efforts to improve the article. You put a lot effort into your work, and I respect that.”
- Thank you. I just put a lot of work into the most neglected section of the article. The section consists primarily of quotes, but please, everyone keep these things in mind:
- - Due to the nature of subjective experience, the words that describe such experiences tend to be unique
- - There are only a few publications that describe the effects of pure ergine, and none of them are that detailed.
- - All of these publications are rare. Most people wouldn't even know where to look to find commets about ergine.
- - I made an effort to trim away any non-essential text. Wk472 (talk) 06:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Wk472. I have removed the quotations from the above post. It's a lot of non-free content, which we are not supposed to host unless absolutely necessary. Sorry, but it's not realistic for you to expect someone to look over this material and make it suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. That's a task each of us has to do ourselves. I see you are a new user, so a good place to begin learning how to effectively edit Misplaced Pages is to visit Help:Introduction. Diannaa (talk) 22:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding your recent edit of Ergonovine (09:12, 18 December 2024), this is what ChatGPT says:
The Botanical Museum Leaflets, published by the Harvard University Herbaria during the 1950s and 1960s, are generally considered to be in the public domain. The Biodiversity Heritage Library (BHL) indicates that volumes from this period are no longer under copyright protection. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/7542?utm_source=chatgpt.com
- Additionally, the Online Books Page, which tracks copyright renewals, does not list any renewals for this publication.
- https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/cce/firstperiod.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com
- However, it's important to note that while the publications themselves may be in the public domain, the Harvard University Herbaria retains copyright over images of herbarium-owned material. These images can be reproduced without modification for scholarly and general publications, provided that the source is properly acknowledged.
- https://huh.harvard.edu/pages/images-digital-collections?utm_source=chatgpt.com
- For non-scholarly publications, permission is required, and publication fees may apply.
- https://huh.harvard.edu/pages/permission-publish-images?utm_source=chatgpt.com
- In summary, while the textual content of the Botanical Museum Leaflets from the 1950s and 1960s is likely in the public domain, any associated images may still be subject to copyright restrictions. It's advisable to consult the Harvard University Herbaria's guidelines or contact them directly for specific usage permissions.
- Also, you didn't just erase the Harvard quote, you also erased the note hinting to the reader that Ipomoea violacea is no longer considered to be a synonym for I. tricolor. The link for this reference will take you to the relevant paragraph in Google Books. You also removed my encouraging comment for people to see my Psychedelic Effects section of Ergine, a debut of previously obscure comments about the effects of isolated ergine (for perspective, compare the current ergine Misplaced Pages article to Psychonaut Wiki's article, which was made by drug enthusiasts: junk. The second paragraph of that article is the equivalent of my Psychedelic Effects section. I tried to improve that article as well, but they're stricter about edits there and they ignore peoples' attempts to contact them. That comment was the equivalent of Misplaced Pages's feature of frequently link relaying readers to other Wikip articles, and it was my use of a link in the postscript (against protocol) that caused Donald Albury to freak out (“There is no logical reason to put a reference inside a reference.”), leading to your edit. Wk472 (talk) 18:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply, Wk472. I do appreciate your efforts to improve the article. You put a lot effort into your work, and I respect that. To maintain the integrity of the article and your work, all editors need to respect WP policy. I think you may be quoting the source excessively here on your talk page. This would constitute violation of copyright, which WP respects and enforces vigorously when violations are detected, even on talk pages. I've asked Diannaa of the WP copyvio task force to take a look, as explicit sizable copyvio must be reverted and deleted (revdeled), which only an admin can do. I noticed also that you added a good bit of quotation to the article, but that seems to be okay, at least to me. Because I'm not an expert on copyvio, I've asked Diannaa to take a look at that too. Please don't freak out if she posts an alarming template here, it's just procedure.;-) 16:14, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
References
- Eich E (January 12, 2008). "4.2.3 Occurrence in the Convolvulaceae (p. 224)". Solanaceae and convolvulaceae - secondary metabolites: biosynthesis, chemotaxonomy, biological and economic significance: a handbook. Berlin, Heidelberg: Springer-Verlag. doi:10.1007/978-3-540-74541-9. ISBN 978-3-540-74540-2. OCLC 195613136.
Recent edit reversion
In this edit here, I reverted some information that appears to be a violation of our copyright policy.
I provided a brief summary of the problem in the edit summary, which should be visible just below my name. You can also click on the "view history" tab in the article to see the recent history of the article. This should be an edit with my name, and a parenthetical comment explaining why your edit was reverted. If that information is not sufficient to explain the situation, please ask.
You suggested that the copyright holders of the text you used might be "cool" with you using it. I have no insight into their views about use of copyrighted material, but I do know something about the views of Misplaced Pages. If the copyright holders I willing to provide written permission it can be used otherwise not. I am aware that you use the material as part of a quote. I trust you are familiar with the fact that material otherwise subject to copyright can be used if properly quoted and attributed end of the quote is sufficiently short. While there is no simple number of words that constitutes acceptability, it is my opinion that this quote is far too long to be considered a reasonable use. (The passage includes about 250 words). If you disagree it might be appropriate to poll other editors with experience in this area.
I do occasionally make mistakes. We get hundreds of reports of potential copyright violations every week, and sometimes there are false positives, for a variety of reasons. (Perhaps the material was moved from another Misplaced Pages article, or the material was properly licensed but the license information was not obvious, or the material is in the public domain but I didn't realize it was public domain, and there can be other situations generating a report to our Copy Patrol tool that turn out not to be actual copyright violations.) If you think my edit was mistaken, please politely let me know and I will investigate. S Philbrick(Talk) 02:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Ergonovine
Hi there! In your recent edit to the Ergonovine, you introduced some errors in reference #25. Could you please fix this to remove the red errors? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 21:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'd rather consult w/ the administration about this. The error is that I'm includinga linked reference within a reference: that's against protocol. But that doesn't necessarily mean the admin is against such, just that they didn't think of such a feature when designing the site. Wikip has a frequently-used feature that hyperlinks text in articles to point to other wikip articles, so they obviously like to promote further reading of Wikip, which is in accord with what my note at the bottom of the reference is doing. So, maybe they'll see this incident and allow for "refs-within-refs". Wk472 (talk) 00:35, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- And what administration would that be? The Foundation runs the servers and pays the developers, while the Misplaced Pages community is responsible for the policies and guidelines that govern the content of Misplaced Pages and the behavior of its editors. Frankly, I cannot make sense of what you are saying. There is no logical reason to put a reference inside a reference. It is possible to include references within extended footnotes, but you have to use Template:Efn to do so, and extended footnotes should not be used as references. If you have a proposal for changing the way references are handled in Misplaced Pages, you need to bring up it at Village pump (technical). In the meantime, follow the guidance on citing sources, lest you be accused of violating the guideline at Misplaced Pages:Do not disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point. Donald Albury 03:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Welp, now the reference is spic-and-span. I even improved the formatting in the source code, giving each attribute its own line (that was the cause of the "line feed" error, by the way: you can't use keyboard line breaks in postscripts, only <br>s), and adding a publisher (I happened upon JSTOR's web page for this essay and it included a publisher in its citation, which I had never seen before). I also added the page range: JSTOR includes the page count in parentheses after the page range, and that delighted me, so I copied that here (gives the reader a sense of how much substance there is to a reference). Now the only potential issue is that it's a rather wordy reference, but as you might have seen from my work, I'm a fan of wordy references. I don't like the idea of engraving a statement and providing a reference with no indication of what particular section of the reference is relevant: when people do that, it's like saying "trust me, bro". Some publications even leave out the title of the article, only typing the journal and volume, and in butchered abbreviations, at that.
- And what administration would that be? The Foundation runs the servers and pays the developers, while the Misplaced Pages community is responsible for the policies and guidelines that govern the content of Misplaced Pages and the behavior of its editors. Frankly, I cannot make sense of what you are saying. There is no logical reason to put a reference inside a reference. It is possible to include references within extended footnotes, but you have to use Template:Efn to do so, and extended footnotes should not be used as references. If you have a proposal for changing the way references are handled in Misplaced Pages, you need to bring up it at Village pump (technical). In the meantime, follow the guidance on citing sources, lest you be accused of violating the guideline at Misplaced Pages:Do not disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point. Donald Albury 03:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
“It is possible to include references within extended footnotes, but you have to use Template:Efn to do so,”
Elaborate on that. Currently, the last line of text in the reference in question is “See the Psychedelic Effects section of Ergine for more comments.” If that sentence was anywhere else on Misplaced Pages, it would look like this: “See the Psychedelic Effects section of Ergine for more comments.”
You're telling me that I can use Efn to get something similar to that within a footnote?
Wk472 (talk) 09:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- You can use Template:Efn to create an explanatory footnote. You have to place Template:Notelist at the end of the article, generally just before Template:Reflist, to have the explanatory footnotes show in the article. You can then place citations, using either <ref> ... </ref> or Template:Sfn, as appropriate, within the explanatory footnote. See Florida scrub for an example of how I have used Efn. Donald Albury 22:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see, you were suggesting that I "mirror" the citation with a footnote (Efn). And I'm also dismayed to see that Diannaa butchered all my "elaborate" citations, under the pretext of copyright violation, even though none of them were actually in violation of copyright. I have a little exercise for you if you're interested: Go to the Psychedelic Effects section of the previous version of the article and read it and hover your mouse cursor over all of the citations. And then do the same thing with the current version and tell me which one was a more enjoyable, educating experience. Wk472 (talk) 22:44, 18 December 2024 (UTC)