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Latest revision as of 17:00, 29 December 2024

Appin (company)

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Appin (company) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Appin closed in 2013. The article is facing a string of changes where there may be a WP:SOCK (see latest changes). Delete according to WP:ATTACK which summarizes that the article has a denigrating purpose, rather than an informational one. WP:NPOV and WP:LBL, because the article is only about calmony even if it is quoted by notable media sources. Dmitry Bobriakov (talk) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Dmitry Bobriakov (talk) 15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I verified that the first deletion was met with a string of blocks, which is why decided to send an initial message to paid-en-wp@wikipedia.org, following which agreed to initiate these discussions directly.--Dmitry Bobriakov (talk) 15:21, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep - As article creator; company clearly meets WP:GNG. If nom has WP:ATTACK or WP:NPOV concerns, could those get discussed on the talk page before going to AfD? If there are WP:ATTACK or WP:NPOV issues on an article for a notable subject, the remedy is to address the issues on the page, not delete. NickCT (talk) 15:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

  The article's contribution history demonstrates that this article cannot be remedy, because a string of possible WP:SOCK editors update the article against these policies. Obviously, meets WP:GNG but this is not enough for the article to be kept. Because this article does not describe the company and (only controversies and legal acts). Dmitry Bobriakov (talk) 15:50, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

  Which editors percisely are you calling possible WP:SOCKs? Regardless, even if you're right, can't we just remove whatever content they've added? NickCT (talk) 15:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per the previous AfD, which clearly shows the article meets WP:NORG. Deletion is not an appropriate solution for the concerns highlighted by the nominator. Astaire (talk) 17:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime and Computing. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as it clearly meets WP:NORG with multiple significant in-depth and independent articles.I don't think it's appropriate to call out particular accounts as socks -- that's for SPI -- but the article has been of particular interest to accounts with a short edit history. Certainly accounts like @NoWarNoPeace and @John Bukka took an interest in the article early in their editing careers and then ended up blocked. It's likely there are multiple-account editors active on the article now. But I've watchlisted it for some time and it seems editing has been on a reasonably healthy path - recently a new account removed what looked like a good cite, and another account put it back with an edit summary, nothing to see here. Oblivy (talk) 21:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Tristancr (talk) 10:25, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: "Delete according to WP: ATTACK" is total nonsense. Per WP: ATTACK, in order for this page to be deleted, the nominator would need to explain why there are no diffs that we can revert to. That's going to be an uphill battle, given that the current state of the article does not read like an attack page. The nominator has said themselves that WP: GNG is met, so there's nothing to discuss and the article should be kept. HyperAccelerated (talk) 21:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete or an article renaming, such as Appin hacking..... According to the delete nominator, I agree that this article is not informative, considering that the company is no longer active.--Bexaendos (talk) 17:10, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:ONE EVENT, Illegal conduct and failing WP:NORG. This company is only known for the single event of a legal challenge by its founders against Reuters which published an article the company founders deemed defamatory. There was no media notice of the company before the suit and certainly there will be no further media coverage of the company when the litigation ends as the company is now defunct. Though the sources in the article are WP:RS, most are tertiary sources reporting from the Reuters report not their own original reporting and cannot be substantially relied upon per WP: Tertiary Sources.

This also appears to breach WP: Illegal Conduct which states that “It is possible that an organization that is not itself generally notable will have a number of significant sources discussing its (alleged) illegal conduct. Sources that primarily discuss purely such conduct cannot be used to establish an organization's notability under this guideline”. The company would have zero notability if the sources arising from the alleged hacking operation are taken out. I will change my vote if sources that demonstrate that the company meets WP:GNG or WP:NBASIC without the use of the sources from the single event of the court case. Runmastery (talk) 05:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• WP:ONEEVENT applies to people, not organizations. Regarding WP:ILLCON, you are omitting the last part of that paragraph which says However, the organization may still be notable, in whole or in part due to such sources, under different guidelines, e.g., WP:CRIME. Taking a look at WP:CRIME, we find that the perpetrators of a crime are eligible for a Misplaced Pages article if The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities. This clearly applies in this case. According to this Reuters article, the targets of Appin included internationally prominent entities such as Boris Berezovsky, Mohamed Azmin Ali, Leonel Fernández, and the Pakistani and Chinese militaries. Astaire (talk) 18:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• Most of the article discusses a lawsuit and other behavior aimed at Reuters and other reporting entities who covered its activities. The recent lifting of the injunction was written about. And it continues to be discussed.Oblivy (talk) 22:46, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep This appears to be a bad-faith nomination based on policy abuse. This is the second time this page has been nominated for deletion by someone with a handful of edits. This page has been the target of malicious edits, including the intentional removal of vital information in the guise of policy enforcement, sometimes by blocked sockpuppets (see the talk page for details). Recently, an Indian court ruled in favor of Reuters, reinstating the article that Appin tried to bury by misrepresenting the facts. The court explicitly stated that Appin has no right to interfere with the journalistic process . There seems to be a pattern here, with many articles exposing how Rajat Khare and Appin use heavy-handed tactics against publishers to suppress the truth—a few of which are cited on this article's page. The EFF has documented a campaign of intimidation and censorship by Rajat Khare and Appin, aimed at erasing stories about their mercenary hacking operations . Furthermore, a recent investigation by Reporters Without Borders (RSF) reveals a coordinated global effort by Rajat Khare and Appin to bully media outlets into removing their stories. , as well as coverage on their YouTube channel . HARRISONSST (talk) 11:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• Checking the history of this editor, I realized that all its changes are only for Appin and all of them have been reverted. And the way he edits the article shows an interest in the article and a possible WP:SOCK.--Dmitry Bobriakov (talk) 12:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

  You have nothing to say about what I wrote? You have nothing to say about the dozens and dozens of news organizations that called out Rajat Khare and Appin's antics? I realize that they generously provide employment opportunities to aspiring Misplaced Pages editors who misrepresent facts that are easy to verify, but the problem is they usually get caught in their own web of lies—the person who nominated this article for deletion the first time User:Metroick was blocked for sock puppetry. As I said, these things follow a pattern. I wouldn't be surprised if you're the same person who has been desperately trying to whitewash this article for the past year. HARRISONSST (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep -- obviously meets WP:GNG, and the arguments of the nom are irrelevant, with other solutions available to address any concerns about editing. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 13:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep -- the hacking activity of this company and the associated malware used was tracked by numerous security and threat intelligence firms around the world, including CrowdStrike, Sentinel One, Microsoft, Google/Mandiant, Cymmetria, PriceWaterhouseCoopers, Qihoo 360 Security, Shadowserver, etc. Lippard (talk) Lippard (talk) 14:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep -- The subject is still relevant due to recent legal lifting of injuctions and other legal ramifications. Furthermore the subject had a general historical impact on cyber security and is Notable for that per WP:GNG and WP:NORG. In addition the proposal to delete the article for issues that could be resolved by editing is not in line with WP:ATD Espatie (talk) 14:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment This message is exclusively for the editor who will close this nomination! The controversy of this article doesn't end there, because as far as I've checked, a number of editors have an obvious interest in the article because of this and I've notified that there is a risk for a WP:SOCK. This edit with comment we are so back, baby, is made by a UK editor, and another editor interested in UK politics (who has a few edits and has never participated in the deletion discussion). Another editor who miraculously after a while got activated and participated in the deletion discussion. Including this editor who is only interested in this article and his changes have all been canceled. I want to believe it's a coincidence, but I'm not sure in this. More recently the discussion has been labeled not a ballot, which certainly has place in this discussion (since it is trying in any way to keep the article and mass voting), without seeing the real problem of the article. Dmitry Bobriakov (talk) 16:59, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

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