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:An "anti-Islam activist" calls himself a leftist, says ] is the only true islam and runs his car into a christian "Weihnachtsmarkt". I cant possible believe that international media is that insane and i don't want to believe that they are despicable liars. So what? ] (]) 01:41, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::We rely on reliable sources. The suspect is an ex-Muslim and activist against Islam. He also supported the AfD. ] (]) 01:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:::] is a leftist, he says he is not on the right.https://imgur.com/a/FnmuIU7
:::He claims that ] is the only true Islam. https://imgur.com/a/lGaXQCs
:::He hosted a forum for asylum seekers and how to get the most "material rights" (i.e. money).https://imgur.com/a/lE8PMAS ] (]) 02:04, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I will not open links to Imgur. It is not a reliable source.
::::I do not wish to engage in this discussion anymore. Have a good day. ] (]) 02:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::We will have to wait for better sources. Have a good Night. :-) ] (]) 02:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::You as well, take care ] (]) 02:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::If an individual says that, "Wahhabism is the original Islam", that does not make him a Muslim. If you find reliable sources that contradict the claims in the lead, we can discuss them. ] (]) 02:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:::If an individual says that "I and AfD have the common enemy" that does not make him far right. ] (]) 02:04, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{u|Pastelfa}}, I suggest you read up on ] and why it is not allowed, and on the use of ] sources. Misplaced Pages is based on what reliable, secondary sources say. ] (]) 10:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
I have the first sentence of article to focus on the most widely reported, and least controversial aspect. Views on the specifics of his politics (e.g. he has shared some far-right posts online, some sources describe him as far-right, some sources describe him as Islamophobic) can be covered in the Suspect section of the article. ] (]) 12:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
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"Musk claimed that "Only the Alternative for Germany (AfD) can save Germany" in a post on X"
That was before it turned out that the perpetrator was a AfD and Musk fanboy, and AFAIR even before the attack itself. It should be changed accordingly.
As it is written, it seems to be a reaction after the attack, and after the perp's social-media history became public. (IIRC Musk gave the cited statement before the attack, and afterwards reacted by accusing Chancellor Scholz of lame-duckism, and then the perp's political leaning and social-media habits were revealed and I am not aware if Musk has said anything on the issue since - which is probably wise, since the perp repeatedly cited Musk to "justify" his murderous agenda.) 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
The opinion of Musk, a private citizen, is irrelevant. Removed from article. Please gain consensus before re-adding. WWGB (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
I support the inclusion of Musk's opinion, he is a prominent billionaire enterprenuer, political donor, activist and conspiracy theorist. I mean, come on, he is one of the richest and most politically powerful men in the world. His opinion is included in 2024 British riots too. Theofunny (talk) 15:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't support including Musk's opinion because there isn't enough to directly connect him to the story. The criteria used to include his comments could apply to many individuals. However, I do acknowledge that his opinion, along with those of some others, is interesting.
He responded to the story by claiming that the migrants anti-Islam advocacy was a "scam". Musk's response has received significant coverage in RS. Firecat93 (talk) 15:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
He is sufficiently connected to the story by virtue of being an influential figure on the side that the perpetrator has also belonged to, and by virtue of him spreading disinformation about the incident. 46.97.170.199 (talk) 16:26, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Should we add a greater emphasis on Taqiyya in his motive?
Currently, the suspected perpetrator is described as Islamophobic. Would it be appropriate to state that this is disputed, and that many argue that he is a Muslim who practiced Taqiyya to hide his religion? Is this a fringe view? Would like to hear Misplaced Pages's thoughts.
Yes, this is indeed a fringe view. The people pushing this narrative are ignoring explicit statements by this guy, and projecting their own narratives onto him, b/c it undermines their politics. There is no evidence that he was "secretly muslim" or whatever, but plenty of evidence that he was anti muslim as stated by the authorities themselves. Midgetman433 (talk) 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Islamic attackers aren't known for hiding their religion. We should have a section in this wiki and Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen clarifying the meaning of Taqiyya - hiding one's beliefs to avoid torture or getting killed (most Muslims don't even know it) and debunking claims - including the out-of-context sarcastic Hamas comment. I will add a sub-section since I am too inexperience with wiki to write long paragraphs Cherry567 (talk) 09:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Why aren't we taking in account his cultural background and nature of the attack? Whether or not he said it, he was influenced by Islamic extremism. Treating such incidents separate from each other is disingenuous to the problem that Islamic fundamentalism poses. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 13:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages's focus is to document events and inform people. It's good to highlight why such incidents happen. Criminal background, failed integration, cultural upbringing of the attacker/s. Even if they claim to be non-religious, this attack was no different from ISIS. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 13:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Islamic theocracy is enforced on a state level in a dozen Muslim countries, including the country the attacker is from. There is also this small, little problem called Jihad, which caused numerous terror attacks in the Middle East, as well as in Europe. People seem to forget critical thinking when it comes to Islam. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 10:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Our focus is to accurately summarize what reliable sources say. If most (reliable) sources are including such a topic about his upbringing, then we should add it. If they are not, we shouldn't.
Sarcastic? That man was threatening an actual pro-Israeli Arab. I've checked who he was responding to. He's also been found to support Omar Abdulaziz and ISIS. In addition, many ex-Muslims have accused him of threatening ex-Muslims. We can't suppress this information. Linkin Prankster (talk) 15:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
My god. This whoe article is - gelinde gesagt - speculation up until misinformation. Please take an example of the German Article.
Until the official sources, especially prosecutors have more decisive evidence, we should not engage in political specualtion. Especially since he declared himself as a "leftist" and also hosted a website that helped migrants take money from the government with fake stories. Pastelfa (talk) 15:38, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
One of the key differences is that foreign media organizations have been able to identify Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen as the accused person, which the German media has not been allowed to do due to German privacy law. This has led to foreign news organizations examining things that he has said and done in the past. But I agree that we don't know the exact motive, which is made clear in the lead section.--♦IanMacM♦17:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
You also engaged in a blatant POV by claiming that the "SPD" (which you emphasized in the edit) interior minister described him as Islamophobe and not the authorities but she mentioned it a lot of times that the authorities can confirm and the sources do too. Theofunny (talk) 19:39, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Its our Minister of Interieur and she is in this party. Which I am proud of. Soit should be reflected inthe intro, no?
He is described as a suspect and alleged attacker for this reason. The New York Times and Wall Street Journal are reliable sources. They describe the suspect as a far-right, anti-Islam activist. Firecat93 (talk) 22:52, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
I can assure you, that I am closer to sources than NYT etc.
This lede has been kept after a lot of additions and removals for neutrality so you better explain your reasons behind doing so. Theofunny (talk) 19:41, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
An "anti-Islam activist" calls himself a leftist, says Wahhabism is the only true islam and runs his car into a christian "Weihnachtsmarkt". I cant possible believe that international media is that insane and i don't want to believe that they are despicable liars. So what? Pastelfa (talk) 01:41, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
If an individual says that, "Wahhabism is the original Islam", that does not make him a Muslim. If you find reliable sources that contradict the claims in the lead, we can discuss them. Firecat93 (talk) 02:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
I have changed the first sentence of article to focus on the most widely reported, and least controversial aspect. Views on the specifics of his politics (e.g. he has shared some far-right posts online, some sources describe him as far-right, some sources describe him as Islamophobic) can be covered in the Suspect section of the article. Yaris678 (talk) 12:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
