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==]==
==Reply==
No problem. Except now I'm old and grey/gray. ] ] 09:10, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


I just made this article. I think it's really interesting how there seem to be links between Apartheid and the racism in the united states, this isn't from the 19th century it's from the 30s and these ideas were taken seriously for decades after. The more research I do, the more I find that contemporary manifestations of racism in the US are a direct reaction to Brown Vs. Board of Ed. -- At ] some people are talking about looking in to the question of our schools which remain segregated to this day. Perhaps you'll want to help. Hope the holidays are being good to you! (And I'm sorry about the whole mess with Dbachmann. I'm shocked at all of the people who have some issue with him, the evidence page has grown absurdly long.) ] (]) 14:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
== Please cut down on reverting ==


==Our exchange at ]==
You're doing a lot of reverting at ]. This is counterproductive. Please cut down. ] ] 14:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I was somewhat dismayed at our exchange of words at the Afrocentrism discussion page. I did not feel that your responses to my concerns where directed at solving these concerns nor explain to me why I shouldn't be concerned, but rather at making me refrain from asking questions and keeping away from the article. I found your tone hostile and condescending, and I felt that you were halfway expecting me to be a troll, or a white supremacist out to get you. I don't know if this is how you usually respond to people in disagreement with you or if I just caught you at a bad time, but I imagine that the wikipedia experience must be quarrelsome for someone who meets other editors with such an attitude. I hope that further exhchanges of information and/or opinion between us can be conducted in a more positive spirit - I commit to contributing my part.] ] 15:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


:I'm not terribly interested in exchanges of opinion; I thought I made that clear. However, exchanges of useful information are ''always'' welcome. The "hostility" and "condescension" you write of weren't intentional, but I suppose that's one way one could interpret my comments. I'm simply weary of those who seemingly and often ''admittedly'' know very little about something proffering their opinions and then proceeding to POV-push and edit-war their mis/disinformation into articles on that same subject matter.
Have you been following the discussion? There is clearly substantial sentiment that the information should is not only valid, but that it is appropriate and should remain. I wonder if you've considered counseling the editors involved that censorship is not acceptable simply because they object to sourced, cited, factual information about of their sacred cows being included in an article. If you're concerned about "counterproductivity," then perhaps you might consider doing so. ] 14:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:If you read what I wrote there, you'll see that I have no wish to censor anything. What I specifically objected to what you putting the "Criticisms" section back in the way it'd been, when I'd already merged it into the "Jefferson and slavery" section as discussed on talk. I did not remove any content whatsoever, I merely reorganized. If you'd read the talk page before reverting, you'd have known that. Reverts are a brute-force type of edit to be used only in unusual circumstances. ] ] 14:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


:I glanced -- and I mean that, ''glanced'' -- at something you wrote about Van Sertima, and I found your characterization of the criticism of his work far too general, absolute and somewhat lacking in documentation. Van Sertima long ago admitted some errors in his interpretation of historical data. Such things are normal in the practice of history in attempting to patch together some semblance of meaning/coherence from artifacts and data related to the prehistory of humankind, and findings and postulations often are revised after the fact by those who originally avdanced them or by those who come after them. Still, Van Sertima's work was far from devoid of documentation, as at least your first edit (I skimmed no further) states.
:And I'm not suggesting you are one of those involved. In fact, I frankly don't remember your participation on the article until you raised the matter of your "merge." Actually, I found your edit note somewhat disingenuous, when your "merge" consisted of deleting a huge chunk of the text involved. That's hardly simply "merging," now -- is it? ] 14:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
::Wow. Would you mind moving the chip that's on your shoulder? It must be blocking your eyes. Here's the edit I'm talking about, where anyone can see exactly what I did: . As you can see, everything I deleted was moved to another section. You seem very overly-quick to accused others of wrongdoing. Also, if you'd noticed, several other people agreed on the talk page that this section should be combined with the already-existant "Jefferson and slavery" section, since that's what it's about. ] ] 14:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


:All that aside, an in-depth discussion of Van Sertima's work is best placed elsewhere -- perhaps in an article devoted to the "Pre-Columbian African presence in the New World." In fact, I would venture to say that much of the article loses its way in treating Afrocentricity only in the practice of history and little else, when such certainly is not the entirety of its scope. Your addition, IMO, merely contributes to this unfortunate trend.
:Just clicked the link, and I see what you're referring to. When I saw your edit, I did not see that the second section had been moved up. I think those particular changes are just fine and would not have reverted the edit had I seen the entire thing. And, no. Your assumption is incorrect. I don't have a "chip on my shoulder." I'm merely impatient with the entire silly business of those who ''do'' want to censor the historical record, treating Jefferson like some idol to be worshipped while churning out George-Washington-and-the-cherry-tree pap for a second-grade comprehension level. Too, I'm working on a couple of deadlines and probably not being as attentive as I should. My apologies. ] 15:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
::Fair enough, my apologies too- I was annoyed but that's no reason for me to be snippy. ] ] 15:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:By the way, if for some reason you're concerned about me advising other editors to not revert very much, here's a place where I did just that: ], a few days ago. ] ] 14:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


FYI, I've restored your edits including the criticisms of Jefferson in the "slavery" section. We'll see how long it lasts. ] seems intent on edit-warring any and all critism of TJ into oblivion. ] 16:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC) :Finally, if your intent is to contribute objectively and positively to a balanced article, then we'll have no problem, and your contributions are more than welcome. Peace. ] (]) 17:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks. Hopefully with enough eyes on the article, it can be relatively stable. If Welsh4ever76 doesn't change his approach he may find himself blocked for excessive reverting- I'd much rather do that than have to protect an article. ] ] 17:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


==I've learned from you :-) ==
==Bike==
You once said to me that (paraphrasing) editors like me needed to take a stand against racism and other injustices on Misplaced Pages. For your viewing delight....
So did you buy the bike? ] ] 16:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
===Nazi userboxes and other fun stuff===
I just had to drop you a line expressing my amazement at your response on that userbox thread at AN. Not only is it against policy (it is just as if not more offensive than the pro-pedophilia userboxes that people get banned for, and helps discredit the project), but to equate a pro Nazi userbox with a userbox supporting a candidate for president, and worrying that deleting it would give people the impression that we ''discriminate against Nazis'' (for God's sake), is absolutely illogical and the sort of thinking that allows Nazi apologists, Holocaust deniers and other racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic nut cases to proliferate like mushrooms on the net and in real life. Stand up against intolerance! Let people know that Misplaced Pages is not a place to spread hate. Remember what ] said... ] (]) 20:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


:I must draw the line here and leave things clear, in that thread I only said that I wanted a second opinion as I was hesitant to remove by myself, though I did say that its removal had my support, never did I say that having this in userspace has my support, let's leave something clear, I would '''never''' support a Nazi cause, and during my stay here I have avocated against racist point of views, have supported Jimbo's banning of a (ironically enough) anti-Jewish pro-Nazi supporter and offered my support in a proposal suggesting that a policy against racism motivated edits be established, enough said. - ] 20:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:ROTFLMAO. :D Can you imagine the messages the seller must've gotten? Obviously ''someone'' pulled his coat, because (if you noticed) the item has been relisted with a tastefully cropped photo of just the bike. And, ''no-oo-oo''! I wouldn't go ''near'' that thing! ] 17:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I had no hesitation, and I had policy and precedent on my side. That user is on the short road to a block. Nobody said you supported Nazism...you just dithered instead of standing up to it. I guarantee you, nobody is going to criticize you for stamping out hate on this website. ] (]) 21:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
::This time I looked at the write up just above the large picture and the following stand out "SOME ATTENTION REQUIRED", "ADJUSTABLE REAR" & "NOTHING TO HIDE". ] ] 18:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
*And here is the thread at AN, which resulted in the indef block of that user: ] <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:Interesting. And well done! :) ] (]) 17:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Yep. Funny stuff. :) I check eBay for crap I don't need and find it a fairly reliable source of amusement. People are simply hilarious -- most often when they're being dead serious. ] 00:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


== Thank you == ==Moreschi==
I don't think Moreschi ''enacted'' the ban he only presented flimsy evidence for it. Right? Check your block log. Nonetheless, Moreschi lead the charge on that one presenting evidence that didn't make any sense after Dbachmann asked him to come in and "clean up". That's why I didn't make the request, but at this point with Moreschi presenting so much evidence, and in light of the weird and rude exchange on the talk page at Afrocentrism I think you're right --he needs to be involved. ] (]) 05:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


: ] (]) 06:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to compliment you on some nice work over ], and other articles recently. I admire your scholarship and tenacity -- please keep up the good work! Best wishes, &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 06:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


::Well, I forgot about all of that. That's as good as enacting the ban himself. ] (]) 06:30, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:Well, I wouldn't say Misplaced Pages is ''hopeless'' -- we're so clearly improving in breadth, depth, and well-referenced authoritativeness in so many areas that I think it will always be ''useful'', in one form or another. It might help you to take a stroll through some of the less combative areas from time to time, to remind yourself of all the good, cooperative work going on -- music, science, medicine, pre-20th centuray history -- for the most part, it's pretty friendly out there.
:What the heck are you talking about? ] (]) 06:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


:However, controversial areas are always going to be our bane, and perhaps eventually our downfall. Those areas certainly continue to take the biggest toll on editor longevity and peace of mind. It's shameful that the areas you work on most attract so many contrary, stupid, hateful edits -- but then, it's shameful that people in the real world hold so many contrary, stupid and hateful views. It sometimes helps me to take the long view: little by hard-fought little, the articles will get better and remain better, and someday social scientists are going to be able to look at the histories of these pages as a primary source in their discussions about "racism in the 21st century." It doesn't make the day to day battles any easier, but it reminds me that ''eventually'' truth and NPOV will win out over idiocy -- even if it takes ten, twenty, or a hundred years, and even if Misplaced Pages itself has failed and some other organization has taken over our GFDL content and its histories. In the meantime, all these people are doing is leaving indelible evidence of their narrow-mindedness in place for all time. &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 15:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


at your block log:
== Another Question ==


* 23:47, November 15, 2007 ] (Talk | contribs) blocked "Deeceevoice (Talk | contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 1 year
Deeceevoice, would you mind if I asked specifically what is POV and unscholarly about this edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Controversy_over_racial_characteristics_of_Ancient_Egyptians&oldid=69010038


The block was not enacted by Moreschi, it was enacted by Viridae, I'm assuming on good faith, based on the fact that (if you didn't bother to look at the diffs) Moreschi's evicence and your last armcom case made it seem neccesary. It was all a smoke screen, but still, this is going to come up so we should just preempt it. The stuff on your talk page works fine. ] (]) 15:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Also: thanks for answering my other question about your edits.] 13:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


Please read what I wrote, fb. Moreschi ''banned me from/locked me out of editing ].'' You're stuck on the failed year-long block from Misplaced Pages. Dab started the ball rolling, kicked it to Moreschi, who then cleared the way for Viridae. Interestingly Moreschi's failed bid for the Arb Com provides us with plenty of info for his inclusion in the Arb Com case against Dab. ] (]) 18:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:The link is to an entire page. Exactly what edit did you have in mind? ] 14:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


:OH! Now I think I get it. There were two bans, one from editing Afrocentrism then they upped it to a year-long ban on everything... and Moreschi did the ban on Afrocentrism then posted the "evidence" to get the year-long ban. Okay, I've put up my evidence on the evidence page (let me know if you see any errors.) I don't quite know what you're getting at about the failed arbcom bid. I voted "no" as a result of all of this nonsense. --but that was one other reason I didn't want to add Moreschi to the case at the time-- it would have seemed like I was trying to ruin Moreschi's bid. But now that that is all over I think it's OK to proceed without making the case seem like some kind of unfair "political" move. ] (]) 19:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::Nevermind, it's unimportant.] 21:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


:Perzackly. My point about Moreschi's failed Arb Com bid is that the ''numerous'' dissenters (of whom there appeared to be an inordinate number), those who opposed his election to that body, provided rationales that could be useful in building a case against Moreschi at the Arb Com case. Certainly, I would guess his precipitous action in my case, his POV pushing at ] and his Bachmann-esque abuse of, and disrespect for, other editors at Afrocentrism likely have been repeated numerous times elsewhere around the site. ] (]) 21:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
== You wanna help us out here at the Black People article? ==


::Perhaps, but I'm a little concerned that there are too many people involved in this already. I simply don't have the time to read all of the evidence so I can't weigh in on some of the statements. How are so many people even finding out about this case? I've never seen half of these editors before... At any rate, I think I've just been accused of being a "meatpuppet" for having ''this'' conversation. I don't really understand that either-- ] (]) 15:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Sure could use your help. --] 18:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


:Yes, but it's necessary -- unfortunately. I've got to actually find some time away from deadlines (hopefully later this week) to knuckle down and write a statement. I really haven't yet -- but at least things have started to settle down a bit after the holidays. It's been just a crazy time. I honestly don't ''know'' how people find out about these things, but considering that Dbachmann seems fairly well known around the site (I had no clue he was even an admin at first), I suppose it's not surprising. Also, both Dab and Moreschi seem to have been on an "anti-nationalism" crusade for some time, so I suppose that's also a potential point of interest for some.
You asked.. where have i been "there"... as in there in the Sphinx article. DeeCeeVoice, being confrontational is fine... but being confrontational as a default way to communicate is not.


:Yeah. I visited the Workshop page and saw the post. Curious. It reads like someone's attempt at keeping you in line and away from the Dark Side ( pun intended ;) ), but I can't imagine they would seriously think anything could be gained by such a post. You're too independent to be intimidated and far too bright to need cautioning. This place is just stupid sometimes (often?), and I long ago learned not to try to get inside other people's minds. It's exhausting and a real waste of time. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Peace. ] (]) 16:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Here is the answer to your question:
==]==
http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Great_Sphinx_of_Giza#ETHNICITY_IS_PART_OF_THE_DESCRIPTION
I have been shocked by the (now frozen) statements and comments on your userpage. I '''never''' would have expected them from you. Peace, ]. ] (]) 17:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


:I don't have a ''clue'' what you're referring to, but, hey, life is full of surprises. ;) ] (]) 17:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
You have offended me. Seriously. --] 00:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
::Over several years of seeing your comments, I had concluded that you would '''never''' say ] or "negroid." ] (]) 03:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


It's all about context. ] (]) 03:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Get over yourself, Zaph. Don't play wounded with me. I'm not the one who made the seriously uptight "temple harlot" crack, which was ''totally'' uncalled for. Furthermore, your last edit to that article was well over three months ago, and I dropped a note on your page asking for your input in a straw poll a few days ago. Nada. And then you have the ''nerve'' to ask me to come to an article you're working on? Well, I could counter with the same sort of response. If you'll check the edit history of the "Black people" article, you'll certainly find me somewhere. A lot. You?
"...offended.... Seriously"?


==]==
Seriously, my brutha, don't ''even'' try it. ] 00:18, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


This arbitration case has now closed and the decision may be found at the link above. Dbachmann is reminded to avoid using his administrative tools in editorial disputes in which he is personally involved, and to avoid misusing the administrative rollback tool for content reversions. ] and ] are placed on ]. For the arbitration committee, ]<sup>(])</sup> 20:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Now you're escalating the situation. I am already tied up with the Afrocentric/Eurocentric nuts on the Black People article. You want to throw down fine. I dont know what temple harlot crack you are talking about and whatever it may be is ancient history. Secondly, I stopped editing that article because the root cause of the issue is in the Black People article. While you argue for arguments sake, I am trying to tackle the source of the contention, thereby elimating its effects in other articles. I do not question your presence there, I ask you to participate now, as the article itself has come to a grinding halt. But yes SERIOUSLY and you want to assume you are in charge here, let go. We can insult each other and escalte this all the way to the fucking moon. Try me. Go ahead, pretend you're the default queen of the attitude. I am at my end of bullshit. --] 00:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


===Irony of ironies===
So I am trying it and accomplishing it. Shall we continue or just let the thing go. Your call. --] 00:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


It seems Dbachmann is currently writing a treatise on the abuses of the ArbCom on his user page and, of course, claiming that the evidence against him regarding his misuse of rollback, etc., were fabrications. I frankly disagree. However, to the extent that some of the lengthy diffs presented as proof of his egregious misconduct were off the mark, it strikes me that this is the same admin who incited another admin to ban me from editing an article without cause, leveling trumped-up and wholly ridiculous charges, whose ban in turn then prompted another admin to ban me from a year from Misplaced Pages. (Both bans subsequently were overturned for lack of evidence.)
Your amnesia is so very convenient. Don't play dumb. And what is important to ''you'' is the ''only'' thing worth editing here, so much so that there's no time to vote a simple yea or nay on another matter. You presume to dictate to me what subject matter is worth my time and attention, my interest? Gotcha. And you are seriously deluded if you think the "root cause of the issue is in the Black People article." The root cause of the problem is the pervasive racism of this website, and it must be countered ''wherever'' it presents itself. What you do in ] will have no effect whatsoever on a cabal of dedicated, racist edit warriors operating elsewhere. Don't kid yourself. ] 00:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


Let me clarify for you. I am so sick and tired of americans, black and white, acting like they are the fucking Gods of the earth. Everything that comes out of someones mouth has to be an ego driven posturing attitude. Now DeeCeeVoice, you come in arguing on a whim. At this point I am unwilling to even begin to tolerate it. You and I both can deface each others pages, insult each other. i will do this all night, I will out do you, I swear to God. (<nowiki></nowiki> ] 01:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)) --] 00:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC) Assuming he truly believes he has been unjustly accused, perhaps Dbachmann will think twice in the future before he levels groundless charges at other editors now that he's experienced -- in his eyes, at least -- the same treatment. He's the one who left us no recourse other than to go to the Arb Comb. Seems to me he's been hoisted on his own petard. Kind of ironic -- doncha think? I got one word: karma. ] (]) 23:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


:Hello, deeceevoice. I didn't find any evidence that dbachmann incited ] to ban you from a page ( is the limit of his conversation with Moreschi at the time, an editor he's familiar with from working at ]. You are neither mentioned nor alluded to in that post, and there is no talk of bans and blocks.). Nor did I see dbachmann support or even comment on the subsequent (and bad) 1 year block performed by ]. Stating his opinion and asking for help doesn't make dbachmann responsible for other administrators' actions and chain reactions. In these cases, Moreschi and Viridae would have been the ones to be held accountable. Personally, I think this whole arbcom case was much ado about nothing, and, to me, it looked like dbachmann was supposed to become the fall guy for heavy-handed adminiship, and also for another type of user: There are users lacking all sense and notion of social history who keep trying to whitewash articles such as ], ], and others, but dbachmann is not one of these users. I really hope everyone's karma allows for some as well. Among other, this arbcom case was driven by ancient grudges that had nothing to do with anything really. There, I feel so much better now. ;-) Belated Happy New Year, and take care. ---] ] 11:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
And what the hell does my legal citizenship status have to do with ''anything''? I don't know what yours is, and I don't give a flying f***. "... you want to assume you are in charge here...." Hey, I'm not the trying to tell someone else how and where to spend their time because my current project is more important than anyone else's. "You and I can deface each others pages..."? ''What?'' "... I will out do you..."? ''What?'' And ''who's'' on an ego trip here? LMBAO. U betta check yaself. ] 00:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


Are you still waiting for the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus to visit you, too? ;) Still, if believing what you believe and saying so makes you feel better, then I'm glad you feel better. If you read Bachmann's comments, he ''clearly'' expects others to be held to a higher standard than that which he sets for himself. Furthermore there are other ways to "whitewash articles," and it's clear that Bachmann engages in POV pushing around the site. I see it at ] and elsewhere. There's no forgiving and forgetting this guy; he refuses to admit he even did anything remotely off the wall. If you ask me, Bachmann didn't get ''nearly'' what he deserves, but I suppose he got as good as could be expected. ] (]) 11:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
<nowiki>.</nowiki> ] 01:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


Oh, yeah. Belated Happy New Year to you, too -- and same back atcha. :) ] (]) 11:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Damn editing conflict. READ THE ARTICLE. My last comment on that article dealt with the ambiguity of the identity. YOU YOURSELF reply later asking me to address the identity in another section. HELLO! I dont care about this temple harlot nonsense, and no one has amnesia. HELLO DEECEEVOICE THINK THINK THINK! We are in an INTERNET FORUM. That means historical postings remain available. I have not denied it. YOu see you continue to argue and fight, and today... You have found yourself in a situation where your entire talk page will be edited until your fingers bleed on your keyboard trying to keep up. No one is dictating anything. YOU CANT SEE A QUESTIONMARK AT THE END OF THE SENTANCE? GOD! The root cause of the problem is obviously the racism on the website, however the LOGICAL SOLUTION IS TO ADDRESS THE SOURCES OF NOUN IDENTITIES. THINK! IF UP is UP and someone calls it DOWN, you must clarify what UP IS! Dont kid YOURSLEF. Using the 1987 afro-defeatist routine is old and tired. I am not here to argue, but you are inciting me and I am not backing down one iota, one single instant. There will be editing conflicts, there will be a lot of text and you will have to revert your talk page throughout the night until you stop distorting my intentions my responses and my comments. I have had enough. --] 00:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


== Thanks ==
How naive can you be? What you do in ] will have absolutely no bearing on what happens in other articles. The project simply doesn't work that way; it's not a Rube Goldberg device. It's this article and this one and this one and this one, another one and another one over there. "... the sources of noun identities..."? Important, yes, which is why I was involved in the article in the past. But as the key to solving the problem of systemic racism in the articles on Misplaced Pages? Pardon me if I laugh.


Thanks for your comments, and best of luck with 2008. <small>~&nbsp;</small>]&nbsp;<small><i>]</i></small> 17:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
And you: "I dont know what temple harlot crack you are talking about...." You: "I dont care about this temple harlot nonsense, and no one has amnesia. HELLO DEECEEVOICE THINK THINK THINK! We are in an INTERNET FORUM. That means historical postings remain available. I have not denied it."


== Thanks! ==
Uh, 'scuse me?


Thanks for dropping that comment. I love braiding! <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 21:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
I put an end to that nonsense when I realized you were too uptight on the subject of Jeezus, religion and sex to engage in a little levity on the subject and squelched the "discussion." But here you come up in my space, actin' a fool and pretending to be ''so offended'' because I ''dared'' to tell you this is a reciprocal thing and that you have absolutely no say in what is, or is not, a worthwhile enterprise on this website with regard to how I spend my time. The two hardly bear comparison. Just man up and own up to your own words instead of claiming you "don't know" what you said -- and, again, get ''ovuh'' urself, blackman. ] 00:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


==Alert: ] up for admin; voting ends today==
Oh really? I wil tell you what im uptight about. I am uptight about everyone claiming that the real Jesus was what they say he is, but showing no proof. All of you cant all be right, because none of you agree with each other, but somehow you all use the SAAAME tactics to 'prove' yourselves. Jesus was a white, jesus was from deep within Africa, the Jesus was a femininist< Jesus was a cheuvanist, et cetra. And I am not acting. You are doing your argumentative tactic. You start off saing "dont pretend to be this" and then go on and on as if I am in some secret lie. I dont compare what is a worthwhile enterprise. I asked you to particpate, but obvioulsy you are so ultra arrogant, a mere request you interpret to be some sign of self-centeredness. Hey DeeCeeVoice can you turn the light on? "No brotha, dont tell me what do do, you think you are so important to determine if the room needs light or not, who are you"? That shit is beyond annoying. I didnt tell you what you were doing is not worthwhile, heck I dont know all of what you do on here. Do you undrestand? You make up your idea of what I think of you and what you do and then you argue that idea, has nothing to do with what I think. So you stop pretending that I am saying smoething I am not saying and get real. Saying "get real" and really "Getting Real" are two different things. Look at the reality of whats going on and stop being on auto-smart-ass mode! --] 01:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


FYI, the info and voting are here.
Uh, I don't ''care'' what you think about Jeezus. What I insist on, however, is that you come down off your high horse, stop posturing like some injured, foul-mouthed 1970s blackman whose male ego has been offended and speak to me like an intelligent adult. When you're ready to do so, then, as always, I'm here. But until then ... I don't think I have to spell that out. You can't bully me, name-call or insult me into seeing things your way. And I'm a blackwoman. We made you. Ya ''day''-um sure cain't Mau-Mau me. I don't play that s***. :p I'm not some naive, little white girl you can send crying to her room. What? U dun loss ur damn mine? Actin' a fool in public -- and we ''both'' in enemy territory?* Like I said b4, check yasself. ] 01:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


:<nowiki>*</nowiki>Harriet Tubman woulda had to shoot knee-grows like you. ] 01:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC) Do whatever you feel moved to do. I know I have. ] (]) 16:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


==You're Invited!==
OH but I see you still want to be the big dog, rooot rooot rroooooo. Fine, let us continue. Round Two. You yourself have been banned and censored beyond count. You cannot even start a conversation with people without inciting anger among the listners. You yourself cannot speak as an intelligent adult when you take a question and reinterpret it to be a command. Children do that. You ask a child to do something and they get offended as if you are trying to attack them. That is YOUR bullying tactic. "Dont such and such brotha". You get a taste of your own tongue and you dont like it. Now what? I'm Blackman and guess what I made you first. No one in here is from a lesbian egg-egg union, so get real black woman. We can go all the way back to the protozoa, or the atom, or adam and eve, whichever you prefer. Every child, male AND female has a mother AND a father. And if you dont want me to bully you or insult you, then STOP INSULTING ME! You cant even be original, you say 70s after I said 80s. You caught me on the day hon. You forget, you came to me with attitude first. Oh wait I forget, you re so conceited, that your attitude is a given, its a default, doesent even count does it??? --] 01:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
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|align="center"|'''Hello!''' I thought you may be interested in joining ''']'''. We work on creating, expanding and making general changes to Tamil related articles. If you would be interested in joining feel free to ] Thank You.
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] (]) 08:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


==Smile==
Okay. Now, this is beyond childish. (I didn't even ''read'' the reference to which you refer. I guess it got lost in all the profanity.) An' tell ya what. Next time you see a man pull a man- or woman-child from out his punani, u b sure an' let me know, ya hear? Finally, u shd know "we made you" is just shorthand for "we know where you come from; we ''raised'' ur black ass." ''Day''-um.) Go 2 ur room, fool. You wanna show ur ass? Fine. We ''both'' know what went down here -- don't we, darlin'? I'm done. ] 01:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">] '''Hello Deeceevoice''', ] (]) has smiled at you! Smiles promote ] and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the ] by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! <br /> <small>''Smile at others by adding {{tls|Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''</small></div><!-- Template:Smile -->


== A citation request ==
Next time you find a black woman who had a child without a mans sperm you let ME know. You showed your ass a million times. All your doing is telling me that yours is bigger than mine. Go ahead and erase my comment so you can LOOK succsesful. This was beyond childish after your first response. QUESTION MARK is not the same as a COMMAND. You're done? I'm done then. All this over a Question MARK! From now on I refer to you as "the riddler". --] 01:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


In the ] article, there is a request for the citation about the price paide in the eBay auction of the Ronson lighter. Since you uploaded the image, I imagine that you are the most likely to be able to provide a citation. (If you can't, we can just modify the caption so that it doesn't make a specific assertion about price, and just describe it as an example of negrobilia.) - ] | ] 05:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Self-contradiction about what you knew and didn't. Self-righteous, foul-mouthed bluster. Crude, abusive language. Name calling. Mischaracterizing my words ''and'' my approach. ''Da-ang.'' Read to me like sumbahdy need Jeezus! :p ] 01:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


==African American culture GA Sweeps Review: On Hold==
I dont care if you are white, black, alien, I dont care if you are Queen Latifah. You come at me with an attitude of disrespect for no reason. You also being a hypocrite show more of your foolishness and this time I am sick of it. You can misspell all the words in the world "yasself, Jeezus" that don't do noTHING. What you can do is choose. You can choose to be a self-righteous self-centered doublestandard jerk or you can actually realize that you initiated this confrontation by over-reacting to something... a lack of seeing my comment for what it obvioulsy was and asserting ... no attempting and failing to assert your ego onto me. Or you can go back to your "cho chu" talking and continue past hour three. I will never stop. I will never end. If you recognize that were both in enemy territory then the smart thing to do is to stand down against me and stop responding to me with your dominatrix mentality everytime we chat with each other. You're triggre happy Deecee, and you expect everyone to avoid the confrontation, you think you can control others. It will not work with me. How much more childish bullshit do you want to see on our pages? I dont care either way. You only egg me on further. --] 02:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
As part of the ], we're doing ] to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the ] and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed ] and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a ]. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left this message on your talk page since you have significantly edited the article (based on using ). Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix with the assistance of multiple editors. I have also left messages on the talk pages for other editors and related WikiProjects to spread the workload around some. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --] (]) 07:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


== Hey there - Balance tag at ] ==
You can mischaracterize my comments all you want. My point is the very ''obvious'' contradiction. After all, ''I'm'' not the one with with Jeezus this and Jeezus that plastered all over my page. I'm not the one claiming to be a Christian -- talkin' high an' stoopin'/crawlin' low.


Hi there... Just to say that you may wish to elaborate on the subject, as I can't quite figure out why you put the tag there; and if I can't figure it out, probably others won't either. But I know you always have good reasons. :) However, if I'm writing this as you're writing a reason... well just ignore this. Have a good one!--] (]) 00:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
What I see here is an example of the kind of venomous viciousness that comes out when a person is unable to draw a line between passionate argument/logical discourse and ego. IMO, you've been behaving like an ego-driven, venomous, little ... gee, what's that word?!! You know. That ''word''? :p Sorry to disappoint, but the power struggle you perceive is all in your head, seemingly a mere projection of something you're dealing with onto me. And you know ''precisely'' what I'm saying. After all, I seriously doubt I'm the first person to tell you such a thing. You're shadowboxing like some punch-drunk prizefighter. And it's a pretty sad sight. Time to put down the gloves and get back to the real world where people can act a fool and defend their fragile egos behind closed doors and no one's the wiser. Me, I've got work to do. Go find something that brings you peace. If you ''must'' remain combative, then meander on off and find a better punching bag for your misguided jabs, 'cuz this one punches back, and I cannot and will not be goaded into tearing into a brutha -- and ''certainly'' not here. For me, bloodletting is not a spectator sport for the enemy's entertainment. And when ''I'' cut, it goes ''through'' the bone, past the marrow. Don't let the fact that I'm a woman fool you. I don't play; my blade's a fuckin' atom splitter. ] 02:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


Done. ] (]) 00:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Deeceevoice you've lost credibility and respect with me. I no longer take your perspective seriously. Poof, begone! Report me please. I DEMAND YOU TO REPORT ME. DO IT NOW. You hypocrite, you are the LAST to speak these words. And for the provocative factor, you believe that I provoked you? I spoke clearly indicating the obverse is true, but of course, like many other arrogant people, you disregard that and instead assume you are by default "right" in your perspective. When you say things like:


== Survey request ==
* 'cuz this one punches back, and I cannot and will not be goaded into tearing into a brutha -- and ''certainly'' not here. For me, bloodletting is not a spectator sport for the enemy's entertainment. And when ''I'' cut, it goes ''through'' the bone, past the marrow. Don't let the fact that I'm a woman fool you. I don't play; my blade's a fuckin' atom splitter.


Hi,<br />
You only agitate more. So you want to suggest that I calm down while threatening me sideways? I double dare you. I insist, I demand. Do your worst DoubleStandardVoice. Take your fake, ego boosting advice with you. --] 05:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Misplaced Pages. You are being contacted, because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles. <br /> <br />
Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, ]. Survey questions can be found at ]. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected! <br /><br />The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions.<br />


Thank You,
:Throughout all of this, I've never lost my temper with you; you haven't made me angry. I don't take ''any'' of this personally. And, no. I haven't threatened you. And, yes, provocation. This all started because you did not respond to a request of mine regarding an article -- not even with a note saying you weren't interested/couldn't be bothered -- yet not two days later left me a note asking for my intervention on an article. You're the one bent out of shape and spewing obscenities. You're the one making demands. You're the one showin' ur ass. And I've repeatedly told you I have absolutely no intention of returning your vitrol in like manner.
] (]) 03:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


== Blues ==
:And you ''demand''? If you're one of those self-flagellating believers so hell-bent on going before the Arb Com, then I suggest you report ''yourself''.


The ] article is currently being ]. It requires quite a lot of work but we could save its status. Please help. Thanks. ] (]) 09:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:Oh. And one, last thing, my ranting, frothing-at-the-mouth "Christian" brutha. You might consider removing your name from the "Category:User Misplaced Pages/Nice users" page -- particularly given the nastiness on your user page. (As an aside, I find it particularly odd that, on a website such as this, your first order of business is attacking another black person. It seems to me like you've got some serious issues that need attention. Such conduct would seem to confirm to me your problem of projection, that ''you'' are the person concerned about being ''the'' big, black, badass dog around here. Don't you know that the king of a dunghill is still lord of a sh*tpile? :p) Anyway, yours was the first page I'd ever seen such a thing -- and I 'bout fell off my chair. Sum helluh funny stuff dat. :p


== ] at ] ==
:I wish you luck in finding equilibrium. Because you need it (still). Bad. ] 05:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


You are one of the leading editors of ], which has been listed at ]. Please follow the discussiona at ] and consider helping out.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/]) </small> 05:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
In fact, Let me report the both of us. Because I don't like chickenshits that use a computer to puff up their ego and expect me to be a willing participant in their egotistical establishment. Obviously you aren't going to fly to Chicago or LA to fuck with me, and I am not going to hunt you down in DC or wherver you think you are. So lets cut to the chase, you can't cut a damn slab of butter with a ginzu. You aren't the commander and you aren't doing anything other than agitating me with your threats that you try to half-ass imply. So let's legally resolve that end of it. I solemnly swear that I have no intention or interest in causing any physical harm to you in any way. Now, on the other end of this, you need to take your own advice and use it for yourself. You certainly want and sadly think you will get the last word (your punch) and your hoping that the whole "insecure black male" routine is going to do that for you. You like to fight men because you feel that proves you are superior in some way, so you seethe for a chance to do so at every turn. FIVE times in the past you have instigated battles with me over DUMB shit. Ok DumbAssVoice let me explain to you why your irritating me. It is not my ego that is bothered. Heck, you're a five out of ten on the richter scale, you'll see my ass on websites, forums, getting more flack than your " How dare you insult the Heavenly Black Female Isis" routine will ever generate. No what irritates me is that you by default, try to dominate discourse with me in ways that are way out of proportion to whatever it is you think has offeneded you. You go on and on about egos and insecurities, as if it's not obvious that those are the very things that are motivating YOU. It's like if I knew you in person you would be that woman that constantly flips her ghetto hand in someone's face if they don't agree to everything you say, or try to laugh in someones face if they make a mistake then tell them not to be so sensitive, telling them to not act like a punk or some BS. Youre the kind of woman that thinks it's equality and takes pride to get into a fist fight with a man, then knowing that the police will arrest the black man and send HIM to jail (not you) because of bias, you get an extra kick out of fucking someone's life up. "oooh look at what i did yall I suckered him into the fight, cuz I knew he would get arrested". Thats what you are trying to do here. Trying to incite me with your threats to violate the policy to such a degree that me, not you, gets banned. After all, you need someone to step on to validate your long Wiki-rap-sheet. So let me out flank you. This conversation has ended. Any and all messages on my talk page by you are deleted and any further communication from you to me on my talk page is automatically blocked (whether it is by automatic means or by me just highlighting and pressing the delete key). I'm sure you have a witty retort ready, but in the end, look at yourself. You've alienated yourself yet again from probably one of the people who was in your corner the most. Bravo big tough girl. Bravo. --] 05:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


==Image copyright problem with Image:Memin pinguin comic.jpg==
== Enjoy yourself.. it's a celebration!!!! ==
Thanks for uploading ]. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of ], but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets ]. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an ] linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check


:* That there is a ] on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
]
:* That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.
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This is an automated notice by ]. For assistance on the image use policy, see ]. --] (]) 06:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
I hope the both of us get the absolute worst possible sanctions they can conjure up. And if that does happen, and you don't ever forget about me. Don't ever forget how you kept trying to punk around someone who wasn't even an enemy, all so you can get your ego high. Was it worth it? I hope so. --] 05:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


== AN/I ==
:You can dispense with the lenghty, abusive posts. I stopped reading them a very long time ago -- except for a sentence or two here or there that snagged my eye. And, no. I won't bother following the link, because I can guess where it leads. I haven't much patience for such matters. Sad. A phrase from a very talented poet acquaintance who committed suicide some decades ago comes to mind: "... tell me how willing slaves be." ] 06:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


There is a discussion at AN/I which relates to you, indirectly. You might want to take a look at ], which mentions you in passing. I'd like to know what your thoughts are on the issue. ''']''' <small>]</small> 13:25, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As the one finger points to me, the other three point to thee. Your name is now "hypocrite", that's the noun that I use to refer you as forever. --] 06:25, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


== Seasons Greetings ==
Keep in mind, how devoted you are to getting the last word. There is nothing sincere in you bringing your friend and his suicide into this conversation. You disrespect his life and death by doing so. Nothing is sacred for you, and nothing sincere comes out of your mouth. You are a perspective, not a person, and it is your perspective, your attitude that I address. Whatever issues you think I personally have, my words ring true. You are far motivated by personal desire to look tough and to come across as a master than you are to listen to others and mutually learn from each other. That is YOUR problem. Next time you find yourself struggling to contribute to an article and you have to go it alone... no even worse, watch the black people article deterioriate. Watch the Egyptian articles deteriorate. You and EditingOprah certainly contributed to me leaving Misplaced Pages for an indefinite period in ways that no white Eurocentricst could. Get your last word, make sure it's worth it. --] 06:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 00:05, 25 December 2008 (UTC)]]
:I see you've recently amended your user page to include me in your personal attacks on Wikipedians. The most telling/interesting passage that I bothered to read? (It seems ''really appropriate'' here.)
:<blockquote>You are the proverbial sellout, the 21st century field nigga that runs to master's house to report when the "other" slaves are trying to escape. You're the one massa gives the gun to watch over the rest of us, and the one that dances for him.</blockquote>
:And ''I'm'' the "hypocrite"? :p ] 14:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


== Hello ==
:Peace in ur life. ] 06:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I just want to say that I think you are awesome. I'm African-American myself and I admire your work and tenacity. I just want to let you know you got a friend and ally in me. ] (]) 19:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


==Speedy deletion of ]==
===Tol' ya===
] Please do not make personal attacks. Misplaced Pages has a strict policy against ]. ] and images '''are not tolerated''' by Misplaced Pages and are ]. Users who continue to create or repost such pages and images in violation of our ] policy will be ] from editing Misplaced Pages. Thank you.


If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding <code>{{tl|hangon}}</code> to '''the top of ]''' (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on ''']''' explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for ''speedy'' deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. <!-- Template:Db-attack-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> ] 08:37, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Hmph. Tried tuh pull yo' coat, but u kep' it up -- 'n' ran tuh yo' massuh instead. Now u gon'. ] 06:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


*Damn! Chill for ''just a second'' and read your talk page. But you may like what I intended even less. ] (]) 08:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
==]==
This article could use some in-text citations for its claims. ] 23:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


==AfD nomination of Stereotypes of Jews==
:I really haven't done much work on that piece. Nor have I even really read it. Perhaps you should leave a note on the page(s) of the editor(s) responsible for the article or, more specifically, those who contributed the unsourced information you're concerned about. Peace. ] 04:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
]I have nominated ], an article that you created, for ]. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at ]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. <!-- Template:AFDWarning --> ''']&nbsp;(&nbsp;]&nbsp;)&nbsp;''' 23:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
== An article you created maybe deleted soon: Tools which can help you ==
]
The article you created, ''']''' maybe deleted from Misplaced Pages.


There is an ongoing debate about whether your article should be deleted here:
All the other significant editors on that article appear to be inactive. I have removed all the material that didn't discuss cited uses of the term, and you can see what's left. ] 18:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
:* '''].'''
The faster your respond, the better chance the article you created can be saved. This is because deletion debates only stay open for a few days, and the first comments are usually the most important.
]
]
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There are several tools and other editors who can help you keep the page from being deleted forever:
# You can list the page up for deletion on ]. If you need help listing your page, add a comment on the <span class="plainlinks"></span>.
# You can request a mentor to help explain to you all of the complex rules that editors use to get a page deleted, here: ]. But '''don't''' wait for a mentor to respond on the deletion page.<br>
# When try to delete a page, veteran editors love to use a lot of ]. Don't let these acronyms intimidate you.<br>Here is a list of your own acronyms you can use yourself: ] which may support the page you created being kept.<br>Acronyms in deletion debates are sometimes incorrectly used, or ignore rules or exceptions.
# You can ] into a larger or better established article on the same topic.


If your page is deleted, you still ]. Good luck! ] (]) 00:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:If most of the editors were black, then that doesn't surprise me. I doubt I'll get around to taking a look, either. ] 19:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
:It definitely is a stub, and it probably will be deleted. Please help me find sources to support its existence:
::] ] (]) 00:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
==Move/redirect the article to ]==
Would you agree to move/redirect the article to ]? If so, email the nominator of the article, and he can speedy close the AfD.] (]) 01:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


:No. The subject matter is broad enough and deep enough to merit a separate article. Just as there is a separate article on ]. ] (]) 01:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
== I have a question.... ==
::Keep it up and I will advocate that the article is deleted. You are alienating everybody in an attempt to prove a point. Watch out for 3RR (3 reverts to an article), you are going to get banned soon. You may win a small battle, but you are going to lose the war, guaranteed. ] (]) 02:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


You can advocate deletion if you want. But let me warn ''you'' that tampering with another editor's comments on the discussion page is not permitted. There is nothing contrary to Wiki policy about me writing down a list of items to be considered in the writing of an article. And "collapsing" that list so that readers do not see it is not cool. 3RR applies to editing in article main space. Why? Because "editing" of contributors' talk page comments is not permitted. Kindly lay off. And please don't threaten me. ] (]) 02:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I was browsing through the discussion history on Afrocentrism and I couldn't help but notice your rant on the Olmecs. What evidence do you have that they were immigrants from Africa? Why couldn't they be simply just full-lipped and broad nosed Indians, due to them being in a tropical wet climate? I will lose all respect for you if you defend the long disproven theoreis of hyperdiffusionists like Ivan van Sertima and Clyde Winters. Get back to me ASAP. Peace. ] 02:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


== ] ==
:And just where have I engaged in a "rant" on the Olmecs? (Furthermore, I'm not here to gain -- or lose -- the respect of anyone.) Peace. ] 04:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


I've taken this to an administrator's noticeboard. While I didn't mention you be name anyone looking at the page history will be able to see that this is dealing with you, so I thought I'd let you know anyway. The thread can be found here: ]. --]<sup><b>]</b></sup> 02:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
M'kay, sorry for my lack of better wording, but what evidence do you have of Olmecs being immigrants from Africa? That's the central focus of my question. Peace.] 06:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


==AfD nomination of Stereotypes of Jews==
Again, where did I engage in a "rant" of any kind? What about a ''near'' rant? What the hell is the problem with people around here? I'm fed up with mischaracterizations of my work. What don't you understand? It's not about what evidence ''I'' have or what I personally believe. Nor is it about what ''you'' personally believe. Whatever little I may have contributed to the article was probably centered around Van Sertima's work and, if I recall, some disinformation repeatedly inserted by certain editor(s?) regarding the purported lack of epicanthic eyefolds in African people -- which is patently false. ''They Came Before Columbus'' involves some interesting theories that deserve to be properly and accurately represented. Period. Peace.] 11:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
]I have nominated ], an article that you created, for ]. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at ]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. <!-- Template:AFDWarning --> ''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 04:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey Deecevoice, sorry to bother you, but can you forward me a copy of Susan Anton's e-mail (s) to me? My e-mail address is sicilyties@hotmail.com. I need it for the sake of revision of the article, yes I'm working on the article yet again. Peace. ] 01:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The e-mails cannot be used in the article; they are considered original research. ] 05:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

But could you just send it to me anyways? I remember you saying "you'd be more than happy to forward anyone a copy of Anton's e-mail", I e-mailed Anton several days ago, and she hasn't responed back. Thanks. Peace. ] 11:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Certainly. Use the link to the left to e-mail me your addy. ] 11:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Will that e-mail work for ya. Get back ot me. Peace. ] 17:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

==]==
Please don't post unsourced negative material about living people, according to ]. Talk pages come up on search engines. Thanks. ] 01:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You gotta be kiddin' me. My, my. Slow day, huh? ] 01:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Nope. I assure you, no kidding. WP isn't the place to post insults. Not a free speech zone and all that. Posted on AN/I, FYI. ] 01:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Of <i>course</i> you're not, dear. ] 07:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

== "African American" and "black" in ] ==

Hey, Deeceevoice. A user who may or may not be trolling is complaining on ] that we shouldn't use the term ] to describe people of African descent in America for that article. He argues that they could not own land and were therefore not "Americans". I find that pretty silly reasoning, but it did give me pause re. the correct terminology to use. In your opinion, what term is best for the article vis-a-vis enslaved blacks pre-Civil War, free blacks pre-Civil War, and free blacks post-Civil War? The sources used tend to mix and match "African American" and "black" with no apparant rhyme or reason, and I notice that the ] article uses both terms. And apologies from this ignorant white guy. :) — ] 11:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with being "ignorant"; we're all ignorant about at least something. (Besides, you seem a hell of a lot more knowledgeable of black subject matter than a lot of white folks on this website. Gee. That's not saying much is it? Well, you know what I mean.) I've responded on the article talk page. I haven't read the article, but I'm sure your work has improved it. Will take a look when I have more time, though. Peace. :) ] 16:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

== Just saying hello ==

Glad to see you are still putting up a fight.. Hope all is well with you! --] 22:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

==Deeceevoice I agree with you!==

Millions of people believe that South Asians are distant members of African diasporas. I personally don't believe this, but it's a fascinating theory that should be given equal weight in the article. Zaph is trying to marginalize this view, but I feel more comfortable mentioning it in the article because it a provides a coherent theme that links all the grousp being discussed. ] 02:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Obviously, I don't have a problem with mentioning the African diaspora. That's why when I revisited the article for the first time in several months a few days ago I included the link to ] in my comments on the talk page. It is a relevant, interesting notion -- but one that is not critical to the discussion; it is documentation of the application of the term to the populations in question, but not an explanation/justification. The peoples mentioned have been considered black, or have considered ''themselves'' black, before and beyond the postulations of Afrocentrist scholars or pan-Africanist ideologues. They have been considered black historically and referred to as such by explorers, casual observers, their countrymen, by colonizers, etc., and themselves. See my comments and the link provided for one example of such a mainstream application of the word black to a non-African ethnic group -- the Tamils of Sri Lanka. You will recall that you removed a photo of Sri Lankan children, incorrectly and rather uncivilly asserting that its inclusion "undermined" and made "absurd" the statements made in the article. ] 10:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

I tried doing what I thought was some pretty basic stuff in ] recently and discovered (I guess I shouldn't be surprised) that I had stepped into a minefield. The first one who came in after me I had no compunctions about just reverting. Anyway, I'd appreciate if you would take a look and see if you disagree with the direction I was trying to take some of this; certainly I value your thoughts in this area enormously. - ] | ] 23:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:Ah, Misplaced Pages. No good deed goes unpunished. :p Will do -- but if it's really complicated, don't look for much from me until probably the middle of next week. Hope you and yours are well. Bless. :) ] 06:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== beauty ==

Yeah, it's lovely up here -- I wish we could spend more time here, but at the moment we need to be spending about 3/4 of our time in Las Vegas, which has its own charms, but not like this lovely land. I'm slowly realizing that I'm really meant to be a rural rather than an urban person.

You can keep an eye on our chunk of paradise . --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

*I've just been getting to know the desert in the last few years. For me it was a matter of learning to understand the subtlety of it. The big views in the Basin and Range world are just the indicators; the way the flora and fauna vary with every few hundred feet in elevation; the slopes and curves that the water shapes; everything is either alluvial fan or will be in a few hundred thousand years; the creatures brilliantly adapted to live in their particular niches...Yeah, Vegas is a blight. But it's an ''interesting'' blight. And we're just twenty minutes from open desert; we can turn our backs to the casinos and we're ]. Kernville is kinda the exact opposite of Las Vegas; we're surrounded by beauty -- one has to travel an hour through a narrow winding canyon to get to anyplace remotely urban, and that's ], which really isn't much to write home about unless you like country music. My wife was born and has spent most of her life in Kernville, and when I first came here I discovered a social structure I could slide right into. A highly educated social structure, too -- a lot of deliberate underachievers, people who choose to be underemployed so they can enjoy the benefits of the river and the mountain. (The Kern River, our back yard, is the primary watershed of Mt. Whitney, and is perhaps the top whitewater sports river in the country.) There's a lot to be said for small town life -- if you don't need the everyday stimulation of urban hubbub. It's an interesting tradeoff. --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

== Re:Gandhi ==

Hi - I'm afraid you are persisting in repeatedly making edits that violate ], ], ] and ]. You are requested to stop and discuss the issue with other editors at ]. If you continue reverting, you may be blocked for disruptive editing. Thanks, ] 15:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

(from article talk page)

The charges of racism are well known and completely valid. Don't quote wiki policy to me when you are ''clearly'' in violation of it. You oblitered accurate, relevant, adequately sourced information with a completely meaningless and dismissive (uncivil) edit note that in no way justified the edit. You have ''yet'' to offer any justification for removing the information. Why is it not relevant? And how is it "nonsense"? Finally, absolutely none of your nice, little links has any relevance whatsoever to the edits I've made. If anything, they apply to your behavior -- and not mine. Unless and until you can justify your deletion of the material, I will continue to insert it. ] 16:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:Khalistan.com is a POV source. Please see ]. Also I request you to see the talkpage archives here as I think this issue has been previously discussed numerous times. ] 16:08, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah! A mere technicality. That's all you had to say, that the Khalitsan website is considered a POV source. Your unhelpful, disrespectful edit note gave no indication of the nature of your objection and -- again -- clearly is a violation of wiki policy. And that business about "disruption" is just bluster -- to use your word -- utter "nonsense." I'll be happy to provide the same information from a NPOV source, then, so you will have no credible objection -- because the historical record is clear: Gandhi was an anti-black bigot. ] 16:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

== Racists in Black People discussion ==

Dear Deeceevoice,

I am the anonymous user you encountered on the "Black People" article.

I have the impression that a lot of racists try to infiltrate that page. For instance "Whatdoyou" has quoted a racist wesbiste for some of his explanations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Whatdoyou

http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/ethiopians.html

http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/

Others are persistently quoting Michael Levin who is known to be a racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Michael_Levin

Finally, I truly believe that you Americans (Black&White) are very influenced by the strong racism of you society. And therefore you have a tendency to split the world in white-black-yellow and brown.

But the world is much more complicated. And for instance, just because Mexicans might look brown, it doesn't mean that they have anything in common with "Brown" Indians, "Brown" Iraqis or "Brown" Afghans.

So you should be very careful not to take the reality of Harlem as the reality of the rest of the world("Put him in FUBU and set him down in Harlem in a Black Panther Party rally, and no one would bat an eye"=> It made me laugh! ;-) ). We still have to do a lot of work to unite Blacks against racism.

Greetings and please stay engaged! (another unsigned post)

:I appreciate your sentiments about racism, but your cautionary note has landed with a thud. Whatever I've contributed to the article has little to do with my personal viewpoint. All of the peoples mentioned in the article have been considered black by various peoples around the globe, or who consider themselves black. Truth be told, the reality of much of Harlem (which today is being gentrified out of existence as a black community) is that many of the black folks there would have an extremely provincial notion of what "black" means. The fact is, the world of black folks is an international and multicultural/multi-ethnic one. It is the critics of the article who have displayed not only racism, but an unreasoning, deliberate obtuseness in their refusal to accept -- or a dismal ability to grasp -- the breadth and scope of the term. ] 20:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

=> Dear Deeceevoice, I think that "Black conscience" is very important in that topic. Because Prince Bandar is obviously of African Origin. But "Black conscience" is not strong in many Arabic countries, because other cultural things(Religion, Family, etc.) are much more important. Therefore I doubt that Prince Bandar will be considered as a member of the "Black People" Group in Saudi Arabia, as many Saudis probably don't know what that means(For them he is "A Prince"). While in countries where "Black conscience" is important, you will have Blacks from different origins considering themselves to belong to one group(Even Sri Lankans in the Britain, Germany, etc.). (Unsigned post.)

:Your point has no point. I raised the matter of Bandar in talk because the writer (you?) claimed very few Arabs were mixed -- when that is patently false. And I provided the reference regarding the obviously "Negroid" presence in Libya. The centuries-long Arab trade in Africa, including its despicable trafficking in black human beings, has produced a population shot-through with black African-bloodlines. And before Arab hegemony in the region, there was '''black''' hegemony. Virtually the entirety of northern Egypt is comprised in predominant part of a mongrelized population of Semitic people (Arabs) and black Africans. And Bandar is but one example of many I cited because of his prominence. If someone like him, with his brown skin and nappy hair, can rise to a position of prominence in a culture known for its anti-black racism, then that should provide at least an inkling of just how common Africoid/Negroid blood is among Arabs as a whole.

:"Blackness" as an individual or group identity may or may ''not'' be a function of "consciousness." After all, the British constantly during their colonial reign referred to Australian Aborigines, Indians and others of the subcontinent disdainfully as "blacks" and "kaffirs". The article is not exclusively about who self-identifies as "black"; it is also about people anywhere who have been called, are called/considered "black."

:Finally, kindly do not post to my talk page again without identifying yourself. ] 18:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

==Vandal?==
Please stop vandalising the black people article. It's finally starting to look good after months of chaos. Your recent edits have been impeding the process. ] 06:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:On the contrary, you are the vandal. You've repeatedly deleted text without justification. The lead of any article is meant to present the subject under discussion and summarize the information in the article. There is absolutely nothing "redundant" about the information provided. The article is not a dictionary entry; definitions do not suffice. ] 07:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

==Thanks?==
I am an African American currently residing outside of the States. I just wanted to write and say "Thanks DeeCee", for your work over at the Black Supremacist page. I surfed there by accident. I was shocked to find that Misplaced Pages has even chosen to include this article. It is far too long in view of the insignificance of so-called "Black Supremacy" when compared to the massive White Supremacist Movement which is once again taking the entire White World by storm. (Are you a Black Supremacist, if you are only trying to survive in a nation that overtly practices and tolerates Racist practices such a lynching or segregation?) Until I read our courageous comments, I was truly daunted by the sheer malevolence that appears to be at work in that article, especially the insidious denigrations of Marcus Garvey. So many considered him to be a hero for addressing Black suffering in the Post Slavery Occident. Yet, that article slanders him viciously, referring to him as an errand boy of the Klu Klux Klan and a friend of White Supremacists. I have not been able to find any truth in any of these statements, so I deleted them. So much of the material there appears to be merely conjectured or anecdotal designed to tell ugly tales about African people in general rather than focus on the purported subject at hand. Yet, on the White Supremacist page, there are no such juicy tidbits to further incite anger and outrage. There are no tales told period, just the bare bones concerning this virulent hate-inspired movement. In fact, much has been left out. The White Supremacist article could have included a number of recent and not so reccent events that would have turned any reader's stomach but the writer keeps it very cut and dry. Not so on the Black Supremaciy page where, the author goes out of his way to assasinate the character of any Black person who remotely expresses any racial pride or hope for his people. I guess, he is just two fingers from calling Martin Luther King a Black Supremacist, since he incited Black people to protest white brutality and segregation.

I want to complain to Misplaced Pages about the unhealthy tone in which the Black Supremacist page has been written. The assaults on Rappers and other musicians such as Lauren Hill is shocking. I have no doubt that the article is motived by racial hate. It is so apt that you have identified the problems as systemic. Misplaced Pages is a true menace in the sense that people of African descent are often assaulted but may lack the resources, time or orientations necessary to defend themselves against those who use Misplaced Pages to commit what amounts to racial assault. Refutations are highly resented and a general ambiance of White supremacist aggression reigns on many pages. I haven't read all that you've written, I imagine that you spend a lot of time, fighting the good fight. Again thanks. I hope you get this message.Sincerely
Vani
--] 20:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

:Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to register your comments.

:CoYep is an edit warrior with a history of following me around the site. He's inserted deliberately slanted information into the article and used legitimate information in blatantly misleading ways.

:I've taken another quick look/cut at the article and reorganized it into something more coherent and excised the most objectionable material I've referred to above. It probably deserves another look. It would be helpful if you would take a look and make any fixes or changes you deem appropriate. And keep an eye on it. No doubt, CoYep will be back to twist/contort the article again. ] 07:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:Thank DeeCee
Thank you for the warm words. I believe that I have already expressed that I'm happy that you have been available to work so hard on this site. I have only been at it a few days, and already I have had enough. I am sorry that we have had cross words, but, even though it may reoccur, it means nothing. Your views nearly mirror my own (concerning the subject at hand) and that is really gratifying. It disturbs me that I may not have the time to keep up with this nutty site. As my mother used to say "No rest for the weary". Peace to you too. VaniNY

== African American ==

Thanks for your work on this. I'll try to get a look at it again today. It's often a mess, and there simply aren't enough people watching it. Apparently, we have a few "contributors" who think the title of the page is The Negro Problem. Then again, I guess the title of much of the talk page could be The Clueless White Boy Problem.

Same thing happens to ]. On ], it's a little better, because there seems to be more of a "diligence squad" watching it through an RSS feed. I tend to hit things as they come up on my watchlist, and that means I'm usually lagging by a few days, so if a page is churning, I rarely see it unless someone calls my attention. Still, it's amazing the vandalism I sometimes find that has been sitting for days. - ] | ] 17:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


== User notice: temporary 3RR block == == User notice: temporary 3RR block ==


<div style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: 1px solid red; padding: 3px;"> <div style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: 1px solid red; padding: 3px;">
==Regarding reversions made on ] ] to ]== ==Regarding reversions made on ] ] to ]==
<div class="user-block"> ] You have been ''']''' from editing for {{#if:|a period of '''{{{time}}}'''|a short time}} in accordance with ] for violating the ]{{#if:|&#32;at ]}}. Please be more careful to ] or seek ] rather than engaging in an ]. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may ] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --><nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki><!-- Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --> below. {{#if:|] (]) 22:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)}}</div><!-- Template:uw-3block --> The duration of the is 24 hours. ] (]) 22:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)</div>
<div class="user-block"> ]
You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the ]. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.</div>
<!-- Template:3RR5 --> The duration of the is 24 hours. ] 18:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)</div>


I've read the 3RR rule, and my understanding is that it appears to apply to article main spaces: "The rule applies per-page. If an editor performs, for example, three reversions on each of two '''articles''' within 24 hours, that editor's six reversions do not constitute a violation of this rule, although it may well indicate that the editor is being disruptive." It has always been my understanding that no one is allowed to expunge or alter another's contributions in the article talk space -- except (possibly?) in cases where it is clearly trolling or off-point. In fact, ] makes it quite clear that: "Deleting or removing text from any Talk page without archiving it, except in your user space <nowiki></nowiki>. Talk pages or any discussion pages are part of the historical record in Misplaced Pages. Every time the pages are cleaned up, don't forget to store the removed text in its corresponding archive (]) page. (See Misplaced Pages:How to archive a talk page.)" Neither applies here. The list is of possible things to include in the article -- no different from any other list of such items in any ''other'' article talk space. It is a working tool used in framing the article and directly relevant to the task at hand. So far, I've found it exceedingly useful -- just as I've found the sources I provided on the talk page useful. People have complained that the list is uncited. There is no requirement that such working lists be cited in the article talk space (though many of the sources I've added below the list actually bear out the accuracy and usefulness of the list itself -- as well as the text I and others have added in the article main space). It would seem to me that the problem is the hypersensitivity of "editors" who refuse to allow a thorough examination of the subject matter at hand. How is it that these "editors" are repeatedly allowed to alter and remove a perfectly legitimate working tool from an article talk space, a tool that I've been using to contribute to the article -- and that ''I'' am the one being blocked -- rather than those who persist in vandalizing the talk page, many of whom have contributed not a single word to the framing of the article on the talk page or in the article main space? This block is crap. ] (]) 22:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
==Unblock request==


: 3RR applies everywhere, although you are usually granted leniency on your own talk page ] (]) 23:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I e-mailed the admin who blocked me to get the link to the documentation supporting the action, stating I didn't believe I violated the 3RR. He responded: "Sadly, an all too common response. See ] -W}}"


The only example given under the 3RR is of an article main space. And I've always been told it is not permitted for an editor to remove another's comments on talk pages, etc. What of that? Along with the working list, they've also removed suggestions about further article development. And the complaints about the list are groundless. ] (]) 23:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I checked the information. It does not support the 3RR. I responded with a follow-up e-mail:


: I've clarified the policy page to make it unambiguous; but this is how its always been interpreted. AFAIK there is no absolute prohibition on removing another editors comments ] (]) 13:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
"Yep. It probably IS a common response. However, did you really read the fourth edit?"
"First, the wording is changed in the second edit, because I realized that someone had played with the Schoch quote to make Schoch say something he may not have said. I changed it in the second edit."
"Most importantly, one of the main points of contention with this segment of the article was the placement of this information. I deleted the "Ethnicity" subhead, deleted the ancillary quotations from the writers (DeVolney, DuBois, etc.) and, I thought, worked the information in very effectively to a previous paragraph where it fit seamlessly regarding the controversy about Khafre. Domingo's observations provide another example of a dissenting opinion regarding the Sphinx's identity. The result is quite different." (edited for clarity)
"I think you're in error, and I request that the block be reversed."
I don't think the admin even bothered to read my fourth entry. It's obvious it's in a completely different location, and the resultant language is quite different.


::Well, that's a good start. But which policy page? You're probably referring to the 3RR. But it seems to me there needs to be some clear direction on not only what constitutes a violation of 3RR, but under what circumstances someone may, or may not, expunge talk page comments. Certainly, obliterating a legitimate entry -- as happened in my case -- simply because the content may offend some hypersensitive people should not be tolerated. You will note that many of the items on that list -- again -- have been so far verified by the sources I (or, perhaps ]) have provided, or in sources/info we've provided in the article main space. And not all of them were negative. What of that? Oh, yeah. And let's not ignore the puerile taunting of ]/] on the project discussion page of the AfD. His conduct has been pretty childish and certainly contrary to Wiki rules. Anybody doin' anything about ''him''? Uh-huh. I ''thought'' not. ] (]) 16:05, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I find the fact that I have been blocked ironic. User:Stbalbach repeatedly reverted my edits without explaining why and using what I consider uncivil language. And he ended his third block with the following edit note, a blatant and open invitation for people to engage in tag-team edit warring: "There is no consensus for this - my 3rd revert of the day so someone else can take it from here." So much for following wiki procedure. ] 13:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


::: Deleting talk comments may well be against netiquette but its not going to get you blocked, unlike 3RR. As for Travb, I've asked for an explanation of that comment ] (]) 21:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
:Response: bulls***. ] 20:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


::::It should. In this case, it's disruptive to the development of the article. I've reinstated the list -- with ''lots'' of documentation for most of the points. Let's see what happens. They can't claim, preposterously -- as another administrator did (below) -- that I'm just spewing anti-Jew hatred. ] (]) 00:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
=="Just take a break...."==


==AfD nomination of Stereotypes of white people==
Just take a break from the black people article for a while. Your edits aren't helping. ] 21:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
]An article that you have been involved in editing, ], has been listed for ]. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Adw --> If this is deleted, all previous edits to ] will also disappear as redirects to deleted articles are themselves deleted. ]/<small><small>(])/(])/(])</small></small> 22:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:Well, it turns out the previous version was supposed to be deleted in an AFD but wasn't, so now the whole thing got speedy-deleted. The version you created was heading for a ] close, almost nobody liked it. ]/<small><small>(])/(])/(])</small></small> 04:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


:If ''any'' of the other "stereotypes" articles remain, the article on SoW will be back. What I wrote wasn't ''intended'' to be an article, but the start of a working list of ideas for an article -- just as with the list at ] -- which, incidentally, now has the makings of a pretty decent article, if approached properly. If I were asked to judge the list as an article, I'd hate it, too. But it was a start, something to get the ball rolling -- not even a stub, really, but no different from the way a ''lot'' of articles at Misplaced Pages get started -- and nothing more. ] (]) 08:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Why don't ''you'' take a break? I think my edits, which have not only added information, but corrected numerous typos and capitalization errors, have been an improvement. What's more, IMO, my edits have been objective, balanced and informative. In many cases, my edits aren't even controversial -- but they've been reverted -- wholesale -- anyway. Now, ''that's'' not helping; that's simply edit warring. And you're one of the main culprits in that regard. You've got some nerve coming to ''my'' page and telling me to "take a break." ] 21:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


== ] ==
== ] ==


In case you are interested when your block expires, please see ]. It's really rather annoying that, rather than nominate the offending article for deletion, you feel the necessity to create a massive disruption to get your point across. --] (]) 03:27, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be ] from editing Misplaced Pages under the ], which states that nobody may ] a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the ''effect'' of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.<!-- Template:3RR -->] 05:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


===Responding: ]===
==Another unjust block==
:My block has nothing to do with ] (duh), and I know when it expires. (I can, after all, read my own talk page.) My point was not disruption, but parity. I've had it up to here with the ] of the project and the way it's open season all year long on any and everything treating Black people, but other ethnic groups are somehow off limits. I'm fed up.


:Yep. As I've already stated, that's what started the SoJ and SoW articles.
I've blocked you for 24 hours so you can calm down a bit. Remember ]. ] 11:21, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:I honestly couldn't care ''less'' about your block. I will continue to speak my mind as long as mind-sets such as those exhibited at ] continue to censor/expunge, wholesale, legitimate edits by engaging in tag-team edit warring. The fact that you chose to block me and not take action against others speaks volumes -- and is just another example of the tacky manner in which you choose to exercise your authority. ] 17:10, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
: Continuing to "speak your mind" in an uncivil matter will lead to further and longer blocks. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant. ] 17:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


:I've also stated, however, that I think the article on Jewish stereotypes is an important one, treated properly. Growing up and going to school with lots of Jews, I always noticed the physical traits described under "spastic Jew," but never had a clue what that was all about -- at least not consciously. I think it's great there's an article that actually explains that -- and the stereotype that has come about as a result. And I never knew where Jerry Lewis' annoying, sometimes funny routines came from, or that the term "spazzing out" -- used virtually exclusively by Jews when I was growing up (and, possibly, still) -- had a medical/biological basis. I also hope the article will treat the stereotypes of Jews as venal, money-grubbing, money lenders and merchants and explain their foundations in history -- how Jews were prohibited from owning land and couldn't farm, so they became shopkeepers/merchants, tailors and lenders. And balancing those stereotypes with the custom commonly known as "jubilee." (What a great concept.) And it should treat all the major stereotypes/archetypes as well. It's important to focus on how they have persisted -- and how they were used, e.g., by Hitler to justify his Final Solution and enlist support, or at least tacit compliance, in that chapter of history generally referred to as The Holocaust.
:And as far as I'm concerned, your continuing to block me unjustly is ''just'' as irrelevant. It means ''nothing'' to me personally. Your blocks are just classic, textbook examples of what is foul about this website. ] 17:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
:: The blocks aren't for your benefit, Deeceevoice, so whether it means anything to you personally is not really something I'm interested in. As Hoary points out, you're quite capable of arguing your case civilly. ] 18:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Yes, Matt, Deecee certainly is capable of doing this. However, it seems to have little or no effect. She's forced to deal with the edits of a number of people. No doubt some of these rationally disagree; others obviously don't argue against or even read civil, rational arguments that don't happen to jibe with their own prejudices, instead dismissing these as "politically correct propoganda" (sic), etc. What should an editor do if her civil, rational arguments are dismissed without consideration? Uncivil eruptions don't seem the best solution. She could start an RfC, I suppose; but that rigmarole (searching for diffs, writing them up, etc etc) looks so time-consuming that I'd never want to start one myself, and I don't suppose my unenthusiasm is unusual. Or again she could just acquiesce and watch the entire article (and all its commercial scrapes) become the playground of earnest students of people like D'Souza, not to mention the unthinking followers of talk-radio blowhards. -- ] 03:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


:It's potentially a fascinating, informative and useful article.
The issue is not just my block, but the abject (and repeated) failure on the part of Crypto and others of his ilk to deal with (or even acknowledge) the violations of others involved in the same matters in which I am involved. The edit warrior in this case clearly and blatantly incited others to essentially take over where he left off -- to engage in tag-team edit warring. And while the wiki definition clearly states that one can be cited for a 3RR violation for having violated even the spirit, and not necessarily the letter (four reverts), of the rule, no action was taken against him. Typical, classic Crypto. And that is why I (and others) hold him and the so-called wiki process in such contempt. ] 04:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


:Just as I think the article on ] (IMO, it should be broadened to include all Black people) is ''potentially'' an important one, ''if treated properly''. (Right now, I think it's pretty awful.) As I protested on the article talk page some time ago, the subject must be treated in historical context in order to provide perspective/meaning. More and more, though, I wonder if such is even remotely possible in a venue such as Misplaced Pages. This place fairly stinks of not only double standards and intellectual dishonesty -- as is clearly evident in the matter of the SoJ article and talk page space -- but racism as well, as is abundantly evident in virtually any and every article here treating Black people. Just pick one.


:Interesting, though, that of the stereotypes articles, only the one treating Jewish stereotypes has occasioned such an uproar -- don't you think? Interesting, too, that the ''only'' major "racial"/ethnic groups without a general article devoted to "stereotypes" are Whites and Jews? In my book, no group should get special treatment. I don't care how many people cry foul. It's flat-out censorship and caving in. It's contrary to Wiki principles, and it shouldn't be allowed. ''Whatever'' happens with SoJ, the same general rule should apply to ''all'' articles dealing with group stereotypes. All or nothing. Contextual or nothing.
Hi, Deecee. Welcome back after the 24 hour "break". I'm an admin and maybe that's because, or that's why, I'm a stuck-up jerk, but I view the eruption that won you the break as an understandable response to other editors' refusal to consider the explanations that you'd very civilly written the previous day.


:IMO, people need to get over it and get on with the business of producing an authoritative, well-constructed, useful article and lose the drama. And ''you'' need to stay the hell off my talk page -- unless you have something useful/constructive to say.
I'm appalled by the stupidity and ignorance that often passes hereabouts as another, valid "point of view" on issues somehow involving skin color. I don't have much time, effort or inclination to flush this stuff away, but now and again I do try (]). I really hope you continue to stick around because you do much more of it than I do, and I'd prefer that the WP coverage of these issues weren't too horrible. All the best -- ] 15:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks. I didn't even notice the block until it was over -- or nearly over. (I didn't try to edit, so I don't know.) :p ] 17:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


:And in case I still haven't gotten through to you, coming to my talk page with this garbage, wasting my time and mischaracterizing my motives here as well as here is ''not'' constructive. As an administrator -- at least that's what your user page says -- you should know better. ] (]) 08:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
:Oh, yeah. Followed the link re AAVE. Your ongoing efforts are appreciated. ] 07:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


== blocked ==
Not at all, Deecee: my efforts are minor and sporadic. All the best with your work; stay cool. -- ] 11:36, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


I have blocked you for one week owing to disruption at ]. You should know by now that will likely be taken as nothing more than backhanded racism. ] (]) 07:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
== a few criticisms ==


<div class="user-block"> ] {{#if:1 week|You have been ''']''' from editing for a period of '''1 week'''|You have been '''temporarily ]''' from editing}} in accordance with ] for {{#if:disruptive edits at ]|'''disruptive edits at ]'''|]}}. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to ]. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may ] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --><nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki><!-- Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --> below, but you should read our ] first. {{#if:] (]) 07:14, 5 January 2009 (UTC)|] (]) 07:14, 5 January 2009 (UTC)}}</div><!-- Template:uw-block1 -->
First off, I want to say I admire your devotion to your cause, and your voracious pursuit of knowledge on subjects that are important to you. However, I have the following questions, which are somewhat criticizing, but not meant to rant at you:


{{unblock reviewed|1= Appealing. I was adding a paragraph at the beginning of the working list that it had been amended and that I was taking the matter to the ANI (or whatever it's called -- the Administrators Notice Board) when I was blocked. This is unjustified. The complaint with the list has been that it is controversial and potentially "offensive." Well, hell, yeah. The ''topic'' is potentially "offensive." Ditto with ], ], ]. That doesn't mean contributing a working list of legitimate and noteworthy ideas for the article is improper. Before restoring it this time, I spent ''a great deal of time'' annotating it so that it would not be mistaken, as it was before, as a racist, intolerant screed, or with no basis in reality. ''And not all the stereotypes listed are negative.'' Let's face it. I didn't just pull that stuff from out of thin air. I even added suggestions and cited sources for explaining the origin of some stereotypes and ''debunking'' them. Certainly, in the context of framing the article, my contributions in the article talk space are a hell of a lot more on-point and certainly less gratuitously offensive (in fact, in terms of "gratuitously," not at all) than the Jewish jokes bandied about at the AfD and the discussion that sprang from that. The source materials identify the items on the list as legitimate and verifiable stereotypes and also address them in a scholarly, informative fashion. The list began as a stream-of-conscious listing of the Jewish stereotypes I've heard/read about and ''has been useful to me in starting to frame article.'' I've referred to it -- as well as the earlier listing of sources I contributed farther up the page -- repeatedly. The added sources should make the list more useful to me and as well to others wishing to contribute to a quality entry. Hell, I shouldn't even have to be writing this explanation -- let alone defending myself from a -- what (checking) -- uh ... week-long block. Particularly when my exchange with William Connelly, the administrator who blocked me before for unintentionally violating a 3RR (because the rule was unclear), told me that removing material from a talk page -- as with the repeated removal of list -- was a "breach of netiquette." I spent a great deal of time annotating the items on the list and providing sources for those interested in working on the article itself -- instead of just griping about it. I even removed some of the possibly more contentious items or reworked them/incorporated them with other items and deleted others until I could find documentation for them. If working on an article in such a manner is "disruptive," then it is not I who should bear the onus of blame for that; it is the hypersensitivity and unreasonableness of those who claim to have been offended. And if they are offended, my regrets. It has not been my intention -- but perhaps they should simply avert their attention and go elsewhere to contribute constructively to the project, as I am doing at SoJ. I do that kind of thing all the time. You won't find me editing at ]. Why? Because it's a topic that I feel is a waste of time, and I'm certain to get p*ssed off. Misplaced Pages simply isn't worth it. I avoid toxicity and stay centered. If this subject is toxic or upsetting to people, then let them move on, give the article a chance to develop (what a concept!) and leave others to do the real work. The people complaining about the working list ''clearly'' don't seem to be interested in actually constructively ''working'' on the article anyway (check the edit record) and are a hindrance in that regard. The repeated removal of the list, as well as this ''second'' block, is absurd and unwarranted. And it's censorship -- flat-out. Incidentally, I don't get why my entry here looks the way it does. The text of my appeal ends here. ] (]) 07:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)|decline=Having read over the incident that led to your block and a sizable amount of the history that surrounded it, I'm going to decline to unblock you at this time. You continued adding the list after it had been removed and despite objections to it. I can see no other reason to do so other than just for the sake of being disruptive and inflammatory under the guise of ]. Even with this in mind, I might have been moved to assume good faith and discuss a shortening of the block were this the first incident. But being that your block log is so long that I can't fit it all on my monitor, I think that a week block is not unreasonable or unnecessary. I concur with Gwen Gale's decision to block. — ] 08:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)}}
#You present cool as an african aesthetic, and give the example of Miles Davis as the icon of cool. If he is the icon of cool-- a non-Western idea/invention/cultural trait, then why does he drive a Mazeradi that has costed him probably a million dollars? Is this not a huge investment of capital being put into a Western "synthetic" version of the cool you refer to?
#You have at one point presented a dichotomy of European vs African, wherein the Africans "get low" with dances and being down to earth and the europeans "get high" on ballet classical music, etc. How would you respond to the claim that this dichotomy is contradicted by the fact that Europeans often found their inspiration in getting low, and africans in reaching for the heavens, before the two cultures came into contact.
#One of your most edited pages in black supremacy. Do you believe in black supremacy?
#You've admitted that you're prejudiced at one point because of bad experiences with racism. How does this effect your editing?
--Winatchess


::Please reread my block notice. If you don't know what I mean by "backhanded racism," please ask. ] (]) 09:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm busy. Comments and inquiries by registered users are more likely to receive a response/faster response. ] 12:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm not an idiot. I can read and understand English. Presumably, then, the list of scholars/sources substantiating the stereotypes detailed therein -- many of them Jewish, judging from the surnames -- are engaging in "backhanded racism" as well -- including the rabbi. Yeah, right. Maybe ''you'' need to learn what actually constitutes racism before leveling such an utterly baseless charge. ] (]) 09:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
::Whenever you have a chance would be great. Secondly, I was wondering why you think that art with black people in it proves any historical fact about egypt. They drew whites and arabs then too. (Mix-raced society). Reply whenever you're not busy --Winatchess
:::::Do you understand that the list, along with edit warring over it, was disruptive to many editors? ] (]) 09:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::1. I didn't feel that the editors were justified in removing a legitimate talk page entry. Editing warring, as I understood it, was restricted to article main spaces. I was always told that it was improper to edit the talk page contributions of another editor.
::::::2. ''"I spent a great deal of time annotating the items on the list and providing sources for those interested in working on the article itself -- instead of just griping about it. I even removed some of the possibly more contentious items or reworked them/incorporated them with other items and deleted others until I could find documentation for them. If working on an article in such a manner is 'disruptive,' then it is not I who should bear the onus of blame for that; it is the hypersensitivity and unreasonableness of those who claim to have been offended. And if they are offended, my regrets. It has not been my intention -- but perhaps they should simply avert their attention and go elsewhere to contribute constructively to the project, as I am doing at SoJ. I do that kind of thing all the time. You won't find me editing at Race and Intelligence. Why? Because it's a topic that I feel is a waste of time, and I'm certain to get p*ssed off. Misplaced Pages simply isn't worth it. I avoid toxicity and stay centered. If this subject is toxic or upsetting to people, then let them move on, give the article a chance to develop (what a concept!) and leave others to do the real work. The people complaining about the working list clearly don't seem to be interested in actually constructively working on the article anyway (check the edit record) and are a hindrance in that regard. The repeated removal of the list, as well as this second block, is absurd and unwarranted. And it's censorship -- flat-out."'' ] (]) 10:07, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Ok but do you understand that how you dealt with this has been disruptive, whether you think editors should have felt that way about it or not? ] (]) 10:14, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::: I acknowledged the editors' stated concerns and addressed them. I assumed too much. I assumed that providing an adequately sourced, revised list and suggesting countervailing information/sources would address their grievances/perceptions about the listing being merely a racist/anti-Semitic screed, and I expected that reason and the interests of the project would prevail over unreasoning, knee-jerk revulsion and baseless personal attacks/hostility. As an African-American editor here at Misplaced Pages, I deal with articles like ] and ] that confront racist stereotypes all the time, and I do it in a reasoned, dispassionate manner. I'm ''expected'' to. It is, in fact, ''demanded'' of me by others. ''All the time.'' And I am expected to hold my tongue and not scream "racism" without some pretty damned solid evidence. Hell, I've been blocked in the past for calling someone a racist when I've done nothing of the sort! Black editors are expected to walk on eggshells, all the while being assaulted by all manner of stupid, racist crap. And if we complain too loudly, we're threatened.


:::::::It's unfortunate that forbearance -- not even in situations such as this, when the issue involves addressing an unpleasant topic forthrightly, assuming good faith and with some modicum of intellectual curiosity/rigor -- seems to be neither the conduct, nor the expectation when other ethnic groups are involved, when the shoe is on the other foot. It's unfortunate that Jews seem to be off-limits when it comes to such matters; the image and mission of the project suffers. This kid-gloves, coddling approach runs counter to the interests of the project. Are we here to produce an encyclopedia, or aren't we? All along, ever since I came to the project, the message has been "no censorship." Well, that's certainly not my experience in this regard. This entire matter is another glaring example of the project's intellectual dishonesty in the face of ubiquitous, strangling ]. There's a stinking double standard at work here. And it's utterly indefensible -- and reprehensible. ] (]) 10:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
'''A Response'''


<nowiki>*sigh*</nowiki> Frankly, I find responding to such flat-footed inquiries as yours tedious and annoying. I'm not here to provide answers to queries from the obviously not well-read (on a particular subject), yet opinionated, as a substitute for knowledge resulting from serious inquiry and scholarship born of ''interest'' rather than curiosity. I will say what I have to say here this time and no more.


Sourcing was never the worry or at least, it wasn't at all the only worry. ] (]) 10:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
*No doubt about it. Cool has been commodified and commercialized. It's changed over the centuries and become disconnected from its spiritual roots. That's what happens with cultural fragmentation and appropriation. Like much of African-American culture, it's been pimped and distorted/appropriated mercilessly by Western culture. Regardless, Miles Davis was and remains an icon of cool -- for any number of reasons. Google him, research him and find out why.
*The example of the "get down" posture in African culture is well known and widely documented. The fact that Africans brought this aesthetic with them to the New World is also well known and widely documented. My statement(s?)/contentions in this regard are not original research. They are widely disseminated throughout the literature. It might help if you did some reading/research.
*It doesn't matter whether I do or do not believe in black supremacy. And, frankly, it's none of your business. The information I've provided on the subject is accurate.
*I've "admitted" being "prejudice<nowiki></nowiki>? I don't know what you're referring to. Have I been formed in part by my experiences? Yes. Do I consider myself scarred or deformed somehow as a result of my experiences with racism? Not that it's any of your business, but no. I'm whole, healthy and at peace; I know who I am, who my people are and where I come from. My experience and knowledge base are those of an African-American, educated by mainstream American society, but also by generations of survivors of a black (and brown, as my ancestors are also Native American) holocaust, who have endured and persevered and thrived despite the odds. By natural circumstances, instinct, inclination and conscious choice, I am steeped in my culture and deeply aware and somewhat knowledgeable of my roots in Mother Africa. As such, I am multicultural and with a far broader knowledge base in certain subject matter than the average mainstream-educated, and often marginally literate, often intellectually lazy, American of ''any'' color. Just as the average white is, IMO, conditioned by racism, assumptions of white superiority/supremacy and white privilege, I have been influenced by the heritage of struggle, overcoming, humanity and spirituality of my people.
*When I write, I bring ''information'', ''knowledge'' and ''insight'' to bear on the subjects I take on. I am objective.
*I've already addressed the subject of ancient dynastic Egypt. It was, first and foremost an African civilization, which had its roots to the South. The Oromo of Abyssinia, the Khoisan, Nuba, and other Nilotic peoples, as well as Equatorial Africans comprised ancient Egypt. The founders of Egypt traced their origins to Punt, located in Eritrea or Sudan -- lands of black, African peoples. There are no whites, or Arabs, or Semites indigenous to Africa (unless one counts ''some'' of the Maghreb Berbers on the other side of the continent). There are no Arabs indigenous to East Africa at all; they came from the East. The myth of a Semitic or Arab ancient Egypt is just that -- a myth. Did other populations -- Semites/Arabs/Jews and Asiatic blacks -- at some point live, work, and some even rule in dynastic Egypt? Without a doubt. But ancient dynastic Egypt began and remained a principally black civilization throughout the millennia. And not only is that my contention, it is supported by ample archaeological evidence and propounded by historians more learned than you or I.
*You obviously have a different opinion, and you're welcome to it. But I frankly don't care what you believe. Based on the way your questions have been phrased, I seriously doubt your opinions are learned ones or informed by any serious scholarly inquiry -- and that's tragic. But, hey, that's on you --isn't it? Again, the voluminous information I have brought to related articles (which likely has been mostly expunged at this point, because that's the nature of Misplaced Pages) is just that, factual information. That others with differing viewpoints on such matters obviously feel compelled to delete such factual, well-documented material wholesale (often without even ''reading'' it), IMO, is very telling -- and typical of the way mindless pap and patent falsehoods are substituted for true knowledge in the service of abysmal ignorance, white supremacy and the perservation of the Great Lie.
*Save your fingers. I'll not read your response. You've brought absolutely nothing to this discussion in your questions. Nothing personal, but I'm bored with you and the entire project. I suggest you address future questions elsewhere. Or, better yet, do some ''serious'' reading and open your mind. ] December 16, 2006


:It was the only legitimate concern. I'm not here to coddle people's hurt feelings. ] (]) 10:43, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
==Just a note==
Just so you know- I'm no admin, just a concerned outsider. :) ] 15:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


::I take your answer to mean you don't care if other editors found you behaviour ]. If this is so, it is much less likely that you'll be unblocked before the week is up, if ever. ] (]) 10:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Yep, I had you confused with someone else and realized it only after I'd posted the note. :) ] 18:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


:::''"I spent a great deal of time annotating the items on the list and providing sources for those interested in working on the article itself -- instead of just griping about it. I even removed some of the possibly more contentious items or reworked them/incorporated them with other items and deleted others until I could find documentation for them. If working on an article in such a manner is 'disruptive,' then it is not I who should bear the onus of blame for that; it is the hypersensitivity and unreasonableness of those who claim to have been offended. And if they are offended, my regrets...."''
== The "]" article... ==
:::''"I acknowledged the editors' stated concerns and addressed them. I assumed too much. I assumed that providing an adequately sourced, revised list and suggesting countervailing information/sources would address their grievances/perceptions about the listing being merely a racist/anti-Semitic screed, and I expected that reason and the interests of the project would prevail over unreasoning, knee-jerk revulsion and baseless personal attacks/hostility. As an African-American editor here at Misplaced Pages, I deal with articles like ] and ] that confront racist stereotypes all the time, and I do it in a reasoned, dispassionate manner. I'm ''expected'' to. It is, in fact, ''demanded'' of me by others. ''All the time.'' And I am expected to hold my tongue and not scream "racism" without some pretty damned solid evidence. Hell, I've been blocked in the past for calling someone a racist when I've done nothing of the sort! Black editors are expected to walk on eggshells, all the while being assaulted by all manner of stupid, racist crap. And if we complain too loudly, we're threatened.''


:::''"It's unfortunate that forbearance -- not even in situations such as this, when the issue involves addressing an unpleasant topic forthrightly, assuming good faith and with some modicum of intellectual curiosity/rigor -- seems to be neither the conduct, nor the expectation when other ethnic groups are involved, when the shoe is on the other foot. It's unfortunate that Jews seem to be off-limits when it comes to such matters; the image and mission of the project suffers. This kid-gloves, coddling approach runs counter to the interests of the project. Are we here to produce an encyclopedia, or aren't we? All along, ever since I came to the project, the message has been "no censorship." Well, that's certainly not my experience in this regard. This entire matter is another glaring example of the project's intellectual dishonesty in the face of ubiquitous, strangling ]. There's a stinking double standard at work here. And it's utterly indefensible -- and reprehensible."''
...strikes me as no longer awful. It is still not a great article, but I think it is no longer a serious embarrassment. You might want to look in on it some time and see if you can suggest some tweaks, or some references worth people following up. - ] | ] 04:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


:::Obviously, you're reading selectively. If, after putting in a great deal of time and effort to work to address people's stated, <s>legitimate</s> understandable concerns, it comes down to a choice between pandering to someone's sensitivities or continuing to engage in competent, good-faith efforts to improve the project, I'll choose the latter. '''Every time.''' ] (]) 11:02, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I don't have the inclination or the patience at the moment. I don't know when, if ever, I'll return to the article. ] 13:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


:::::Many editors didn't see how edit warring over a naked list of slurs would help the project. Rather, they found it highly disruptive and that's why I blocked you. ] (]) 11:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
== Stormfront material ==


:::::I'm not going to insult your intelligence, so I'm going to assume you're being intentionally obtuse, or, better, perhaps you're being inattentive. The list was certainly not a "naked list of slurs." You may wish to revisit my responses again and, if you haven't bothered to view the revised list -- you clearly have not; otherwise you could not credibly characterize it as such -- perhaps you should. ] (]) 11:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
You are right about that material, it was racist, it was my mistake to have restored it without reading it more carefully. Wanted to admit my mistake on that single edit and clear up any misunderstanding that it was made intentionally. I did not defend it after you removed it the second time and I agree it should be removed. -- ] 18:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


. It looks like a list of slurs to me. ] (]) 11:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, that's the way you roll, isn't it? Wholesale deletion/reversion without bothering to read anything, exhorting others to do the same. Please, don't come here pretending to be acting in good faith. ] 09:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


:Actually, <s>Gale</s> Gwen, it's a list of ''stereotypes'' -- positive and negative. That is, after all the stated subject of the article. And it's not a "naked list." It is -- for the umpty-ump time -- well sourced and cited and includes suggested materials to debunk certain stereotypes as well. ''What about that doesn't compute?'' You're either not reading what I've written, or simply being obtuse. It does no good for me to repeat myself. You just won't acknowledge the facts. The only alternative is that you're just flat-out stupid, and I refuse to believe that to be the case. You've obviously made your decision and intend to stand by it, no matter what -- and I've got deadlines. ] (]) 11:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
== Merry Christmas ==
::Sounds like one editor's encyclopedic project is a bunch of other editors' list of slurs. Edit warring over it got you blocked and now you're tottering on the brink of either a 1 year block or an indefinite ban. If you haven't groked by now that your behaviour here has been stirring up too many worries and taking too much time from volunteer editors, then the outcome is beginning to look foregone. ] (]) 12:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
] wishes you a Merry Christmas!]]


As far as I can see, the validity of the list or otherwise isn't the issue at all, any more than it would be if it was on an article page. The issue is your edit warring / disruption over it ] (]) 14:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi DeeCee! I just want to say Merry Christmas and Kwanzaa to you! Have a nice holiday time. - ] 19:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


:I have no comment on the charge of edit warring or disruption: I haven't looked into it. Edit warring and disruption can indeed merit blocks.
=={{{{{subst|}}}#if:Get down|]|Stub tag}}==
When you create ] articles{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Get down|&nbsp;such as ]}}, please try to find the best ''specific'' stub tag(s) on the page ]. This saves other editors work in categorizing the page, and makes it easier for editors with experise in the subject to find pages that need work. Thanks, — ] <sup>] ]</sup> 18:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


:As for the charge of listing slurs, I've looked at the edit to which Gwen has linked twice above, and while a lot of its ingredients are indeed offensive, I don't find the posting as a whole offensive. (For one thing, I note that Deecee highlights the debunking of these slurs.) More specifically, when Deecee writes above ''The list was certainly not a "naked list of slurs"'', I agree with her. (Again, my agreement does not excuse any edit warring.)
I'm not very interested in the project at the moment, so whatever I do I do what I have the tolerance/patience for. I don't have the patience for such matters such as stub categories, so I'm afraid you'll have to accept what I have to offer and no more. Not the best response, I'm sorry to say, but it's my response. ] 21:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
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:I also find talk during a one-week block of ''either a 1 year block or an indefinite ban'' unfortunate.
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This is an automated notice by ]. For assistance on the image use policy, see ]. 09:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC) :I'll now bow out of this (and go to bed). -- ] (]) 15:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


::I won't address the edit warring issue, but the attempt to escalate this to a fullscale ban is pretty over the top. How can one discuss an article about stereotypes without providing the stereotypes? And removing DCV's list from the talk page was inappropriate, as it was clearly not meant as insult but as illustration; of course some of the stereotypes are hurtful -- but they are still extant and, if such an article is going to exist, they can be discussed ''as stereotypes''. I don't for a moment believe DCV thinks that Jews are money-grubbing, evil scheming effeminate Christ-killers. There might indeed be some ] behavior here, but let's keep the various issues separate from each other. --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 17:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Yawn. dee. 01/02/07


Please comment at ]. ] (]) 17:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
== Thank you ==


{{tlx|unblock|More nonsense. The block log is lengthy, yes -- and comprised of a lot of unjustified hounding by one administrator wa-aay back in the day. Let's deal with the matter at hand -- shall we? More nonsense. Your rationalization might have some merit had I simply restored the list in the form that it was previously. But the objections to the list that it was baseless, racist and uncited -- the latter not being a requirement for article talk pages. Still, I took the time to add citations/sources for a good deal of that information included in the list, leaving the most obvious additions uncited, because they are fairly common knowledge as stereotypes. Neither you nor your counterpart has offered any plausible explanation or justification for why the list should be expunged, or why the "editor" who deleted it was justified in doing so. *x* ] (]) 09:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)}}
Hi,
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'''Your request to be unblocked''' has been '''granted''' for the following reason(s):
Thank you for your recent postings on ]. It has been frustrating with the number of people modifying the info on that page. Some have been turning it into a propganda page to make it look like we do not exist. Yes, we are related to the people of East Africa and the aboriginals of Australia. One can see that not only in our features, but in some of our martial arts, music, and dance.
<br><br>After talking about this with you, seeing some other feedback from editors who haven't posted to the ANI thread (above) and giving this more thought, I believe your edits were in good faith faith and hence, while there has been some disruption and edit warring, I think those worries should be talked out further in the ANI thread.


] 06:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC) ''Request handled by:'' ] (]) 18:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
<!-- Request accepted (after-block request) -->
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The list was and is offensive, but more importantly it was original research. Deeceevoice wrote an entire article on stereotypes that even she has described as "stream of consciousness" that was never meant to actually be an article. She then edit warred to make sure that her original research or "stream of consciousness" be kept on the talk page in order to form the framework for an article. The list has zero encyclopedic value, though I do think it speaks volumes about its author. I don't mean that as a personal attack, but looking through her contributions, block log, and the arbitration case, she appears to have problems with other races. The block was appropriate, and I'm disappointed that it was removed. I'm way too involved to reinstate it, but I'm fairly certain we're going to find ourselves dealing with this behavior again and again and again. ]<sup><b>]</b></sup> 19:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


:I agree with you about the list, I don't think it's a helpful way to build on the topic because, indeed, the structure makes for original research looking for citations. However, I think it was written in good faith and not backhandedly. There ''are'' still meaningful disruption and edit warring worries and I'm hoping a way to deal with them can be found either in the ANI thread or elsewhere. ] (]) 19:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny, we were both sending each other a message at the same time without knowing. ] 06:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


:A couple of things to AniMate. 1) The list ''clearly'' was/is not "original research." 2) You don't know me, and you also clearly have ''no clue'' how I regard other "races" -- your term. Even if your completely off-the-mark speculation about my motives and beliefs had merit, I don't get the relevance -- because the last time I checked, Jews weren't considered a "race."] (]) 12:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
::The U.S.] 06:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


Oh! ''Where are my manners?'' Thanks, Gwen. You surprised me. :) ] (]) 12:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Vanakkam and Greetings,


:My politics are pretty thoroughly opposed to those of Deeceevoice and I think she's deleted my comments from her talk page in the past as offensive to her... but I think here that hers is the more reasonable position, despite being Jewish myself (non-religiously, though). If there is to be an article on "stereotypes of Jews" (that's the subject of an AfD debate now, and that's the place to bring it up if you ''don't'' think there should be such an article), it's reasonable to discuss on its talk page just what those stereotypes actually are, and the kind of rigorous sourcing and lack of original research that's needed in the article itself doesn't fully apply there, at least so long as you're not getting into the touchy area of potentially defamatory statements about specific living people, anyway. Her contributions in that area seem to be in good faith, and the opposition excessively thin-skinned. She also raises some valid "double standard" concerns that I've brought up myself in the ] essay. The punitiveness with which some people bring in blocks and bans to deal with people who say things they don't want to hear is distressing. ] (]) 13:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I see that the debate is getting pretty hot on ]. ] has been harassing a few people showing intolerance towards other people's ethnic backgrounds and vandalizing the talk pages. He is also in the habit of posting messages without signging them, like as though we are not going to know who it is. Today, he posted a very inapporiate message on my ] page. Furthermore, I sense some sockpuppetry going on with this user, since his tone of language sounds almost the same as ], who has been reported by none other than (me). ]'s previous history of harassing otherusers, warnings, and blockings because of his name alone is the reason why he is being removed from Misplaced Pages by next week.


And speaking of manners, thanks to those who've lent their support, including ], ] and Dan T (who, I'm sorry to say, I don't remember). JP, your characterization of me as someone who believes Jews are "money-grubbing, evil, scheming effeminate Christ-killers" was so preposterous -- even in the negative -- that I laughed and cringed at the same time. Happy new year to you and yours. :) Well, I guess, to everyone -- except, of course, those screaming for my head on a stick. (Nuts to ya! Despair, misery, disappointment and general overall suckiness, too. Lots of it. :p) ] (]) 14:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
It seems that one of the few that is making noise here is ]. We must act accordingly and report this user at once to administration. I cannot believe the kind of language he is using here and getting away with it. Lastly, I have come up with an idea to start a ''WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations'' to counter these inappropriate activities and to promote the different Dravidian cultures, not only in India, but in Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Maldives, and Bangladesh. So far, the majority of articles relating to Dravidians are good to go. It seems that it is mainly the ] site which we need to tackle. So, I would like you to be on the ''WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations'' team. This group is open to anybody and everybody who is interested in participating. As you will notice Dravidians are not locked into on country, but are spread across borders too.
==Hullo old friend!==
Deeceevoice, I left for a while Misplaced Pages because I was alone for weeks fighting with people like Moreschi, Woland... in the article about the race of the ancient Egyptians. Not being able of discussing objectively, they frightened to suppress the article or to have me baned. Big-dynamo was baned by those people. I couldn't see you around. Being also busy with the preparation of the discussion of my doctoral thesis in Missiology, I had to retreat a bit leting my adversaries spread ignorance on Black civilizations like the one of ancient Egypt, and waiting for the rescue. Now it has come. Recently, from time to time, I came to read especially your contributions. Interesting what you wrote in the Tut article. Thanks a lot! I will see what I can do for my coming back. There are new names like Wapondaponda. He is very well informed! I have not interacted with Taharqa for months now. I just don't know his whereabouts. I noticed that you have had problems with admin. Please, know how to swim in the troubled waters of Misplaced Pages in order to survive. Take care!--] (]) 14:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
:It is ], not Wapondaponda, who was banned for six months from editing the article on the race of the ancient Egyptians and the article related to that theme. I felt from wanings I received, that I was near to fall in the same trap! That's why I desapeared. I profited from that absence to work more on my thesis. The coming of Wapondaponda, as far as I can understand his points of view, is a big news. I am happy with him. He knows a lot of things about the race of the ancient Egyptians and he wants a balanced article. For now, the introduction of the article favor only the Eurocentric view presented by Hawass! And also it is faulse that from the today standard, ancient Egyptians are neither Blacks nor Whites. On the contrary, even if they were mixed, they would have been called Blacks, just like Obama. Besides, from today's standard, people of dark color skin are easily labelled Blacks, that is the case with Indians living in Europe. Hotep, bro! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:21, 29 January 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:::Hi all - following too much suppression of debate at various Egyptology sites I have created ] - I hope it will survive past the weekend. Your input would be great. Thanks ] (]) 13:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Anyways, here is the link: ]


== A Request==
Take care.
Hello, deeceevoice. Could you do me a favor? Could you get rid of that bogus list at the ] article? It seems you-know-who added it again, even though it's absolutely ridiculous. ] (]) 18:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


== Arguments/Evidence for a "Black Ancient Egypt"?==
] 00:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


HELP!! The article ] is about to get squashed, just like all the other attempts to air these issues. We need your vote – please take part in the debate!! ] (]) 23:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
:If this guy hasn't been reported already for violating the 3RR on both ] and ], then he should be. It's amazing that, given his conduct, he actually called in someone else for assistance. (I'm not sure that person is an admin, though. They certainly don't appear to be acting, in their comments on ] with any degree of equanimity. Unfortunately, the next few days for me will be incredibly hectic, so you probably won't see much more of me 'til next week.
:Deeceevoice, we are expecting your arguments and your vote for or against the existence of the new-old article resurrected by Wdford!--] (]) 13:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
::I am suprised by the deletion. Very sad indeed! It was a nice and balanced piece.--] (]) 09:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


Oops, already a thread here. Deeceevoice, about a million years ago wikipedia time you and I had one or two unpleasant encounters. I wanted to give you a chance to air any concerns you might have with my continued involvement at '''Ancient Egyptian race controversy''' (AErc).
:And, yes. I'll take you up on your invitation. Unsatisfied with his shenanigans at ], this guy's taken to vandalizing the Tamil article, as well. If he's not put in check, he'll likely continue his activities to other related projects.


On the actual deletion, Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka I tried to be clear that that was (in part) due to practicalities of ''working'' with the article as opposed to the actual material in the article. I've already restored some of that material to the talk page of AErc.
:With regard to sock puppetry, there's no doubt in my mind this guy has other tags under which he edits on the project. ] 11:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


] 11:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
:I note that Asian2duracell has been reported for 3RR violation at ]. If you have a moment, you might wish to do the same for his antics at ]. Back-to-back blocks might discourage him from further such behavior. ] 13:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


:Aaron, sorry, but I don't remember you or any encounters. It's a bad habit. I just don't generally tend to key in on user names. :/ But anyone who wants to contribute constructively to the development of quality, NPOV articles should be welcome to participate in the writing of ''any'' article ''anywhere'' on Misplaced Pages, and the current piece under discussion is no exception. Welcome aboard. Regards, :) ] (]) 12:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
haha ur talking about me, oh what an honour. I'm sorry I didnt signed the post, WikiRaja. It was ofcourse me. But that ARYAN818 guy is definitley not me. Hey Guys, or better deeceevoice, I think ur the last guy who should talk about "get blocked". (deleted message to another user.)] 00:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC) :-)


===In appreciation===
A2d, if you have a message for another user, I suggest you take it to their page. There is no reason to suspect that WR -- or any other user (other than me) -- would check my discussion page for messages intended for them. Yours here to WR has been deleted. ] 12:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
This is for you, Lusala, and all the folks who worked on the (now defunct) ].


] ] (]) 11:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC) :(
== hey ==


::::We ain't done yet, guys. Apartheid was not overturned in a week! The fight continues - voting at AErc thusfar is 3-0 for the good guys. Courage! ] (]) 17:48, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Whats up? Two things, one related to Misplaced Pages and one just a general question.


:::::Thanks a lot!--] (]) 18:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
1.]'s article seems completely POV against him (I have my guesses why...). Even though he is kind of bullshittin' about being the father of the internet, I think it's some pretty awful treatment of him that you could easily counterbalance.
2. Just a general question. Does it piss you off that "Afrocentric" rappers like Nas have ignorant lyrics like:
:Egypt was the place that Alexander the Great went
:He was a'shocked at the mountains with black faces
:Shot up they nose to impose what basically
:Still goes on today, you see?
Or is your view of ignorance limited only to eurocentric prejudice? Anyways, peace, --] 01:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


::::Now Lusala makes four. I've sent notes to a few of the names that snagged my eye as I scrolled up the talk page, looking for contributors, in order to get their comments on the suggested language -- including to Paul Barlow and <s>Brennaman</s> Aaron Brenn'''e'''man (I think that's his name. I'm ''terrible'' with names! The admin who's taking the handoff from the guy who locked down the article.) We need a general consensus to move this forward, and that means from the contrarian people as well. So, we'll see what sticks. :) ] (]) 18:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
:My comments about that article were registered a very long time ago. I'm done with it. Don't come to my user page asking stupid and deliberately insulting/provocative questions about my view of "ignorance" or anything else. ] 12:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


== General sanctions ban ==
:Tread lightly, Urthogie. ] 13:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


Deeceevoice, under provisions of ], Articles relating to pseudoscience, broadly interpreted, you are banned for three months from all pages (article and talk) related to the race of ancient people/peoples. This includes, but is not limited to, ]. You can appeal this to the ]. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
<s>You'd do well to heed your own advice. Don't come up in my space with smart-ass questions and expect me to play nice. ] 15:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)</s> Oops! ] 18:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
:EL C does not = Urthogie.--] 16:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


::::::What happened to Deeceevoice? Up to now, things looked peaceful!--] (]) 20:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
You ain't nevvuh lied about that! Sorry, El C. I'm crunching deadlines and didn't read very carefully. Happy New Year, bwoi! :D ] 16:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
:See, everyone makes mistakes! --] 03:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
And your record is a constant, never-ending string of them. You're an annoyance. Get lost. ] 12:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
==Invitation to join the Gospel Music Wikiproject==
I noticed your earlier work on the ] article. I would like to invite you to join the new ].<br>] 22:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


The short answer is nothing, Luka. Absolutely nothing. ;) Check Wapondaponda's talk page. I ''have'' to attend to a deadline. Also check Harrison's talk page. I've only given in the most cursory of glances. I just don't have the time or the patience right now to actually read it, but it looks like the ban may stick. It may be technically enforceable, but those of us involved in the article know it's ''totally'' unjustified.
==Great work!==


Frankly, if someone wanted to go after Zara and have her banned for her part in shutting down the article, disruptive editing, they'd have a pretty good case. Certainly, a far better case than could be made for any POV pushing on my part. But that's another matter.
I thought the changes you made to ] were great. Get ready for a fight, though. There are some people here who take that guy ''seriously'' (!) Try to stay calm and cite a lot sources. I'll be around if you need any help.-- ] 00:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


If the ban isn't enforceable, I'll be back at the article. If it is, then I'll still be around. You can always e-mail me, and visit my talk page space. We can discuss the article and how to attack it. I just won't be able to edit there. Gotta go.


Peace! ] (]) 21:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
==]==


Ugh. *looks around* I too am currently unable to locate a reason for this. On the technicality: Currently and unfortunately there is ambiguity on if the ban will "stick." Arbitration Committee has said that warnings are specifically ''not'' administrator action w.r.t. bans of this type, and that adminstrators need to heed reasonable intput from their peers. They've also made it very clear that reverting any ''actual'' admin button pushing will lead straight to a spanking by Jimbo. What they have not made clear is what happens if:
We need to talk about the text you removed. Another user put it back, so I removed it again, but we need to hash this out. It's turning in to an edit war. Please see the talk page. ] 20:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
* Admin A warns User 1,
* Admin B says 'not required to warn User 1, they are fine'
* Admin A blocks User 1.
Thank you for the patience and good will demonstrated in the above post.
] 23:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


===Following the discussion===
Our communications are crossing. I just commented there. ] 21:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


This discussion continues on Harrison's talk page, which I don't have time at the moment to follow. If you want to know what's going on with this, I can't help you. It's confusing. So, lotsa luck. But thanks, people, for your expressions of interest, concern and indignation. ] (]) 13:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
== Black People ==
Although I have been banned from contributing, I have still been able to spread the word and it looks like it worked as I expected. The cat is already out of the bag and there is no way the Eurocentric view will ever remain in control of that article again. I am glad to see you've been sticking up for the best way to contribute to the Black People article. - Zaphnathpaaneah. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 23:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->


:::No, I don't think I can tell you anything you would find persuasive or useful. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
==]==
:::: Hello Tom, I don't understand too why you have placed a ban on Deeceevoice. I haven't seen anything said that is innappropriate. ] (]) 19:27, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
deecee, don't delete the stuff on ] again. You see there is a rule that you should not revert any edit more than three times. Since what we've tried so far isn't working we might need some mediation for this... or if you know anyone who can help make a case on the talk page give them a call.
::::Actually, I disagree, Tom. I think what you might have to say could be ''very'' useful. It's a simple request. I mean if you're going to content-ban someone for -- what -- however many months, the least you can do is point me to the relevant governing language. Again, it's a simple -- and civil -- request. Just show me the relevant language, so I can determine if your ban is warranted/justifiable -- in which case I won't waste the ArbCom's time. Thanks -- again. :) ] (]) 19:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


:::Because you repeatedly and seriously failed to adhere to the purpose of the project, and its expected standards of behavior. You've been persistently and disruptively uncivil, routinely attacked anyone who disagrees with you, and are trying to slant ] toward a fringe viewpoint. I guess that would be uncivil pov pushing. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:00, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I just wanted to warn you so you don't get banned from editing. This whole thing is beyond annoying. If you ever need anything just let me know, Hit my talk page or email (me @ futurebird dot com )] 05:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::If you won't explain, I'll request the demand be removed; Tom, you are obliged to explain or recant. --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 19:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
::::You and I know I've done nothing of the sort. Your explanation appears little more than a throwaway excuse. In fact, I've spent the last couple of days trying to build some sort of consensus on the rewriting of the lead paragraph in wholly value-neutral language that, from the looks of it, is likely to succeed -- and nothing more. If you have evidence of POV pushing -- rather difficult, seeing as how the article has been locked down over the past few days -- where is it? ] (]) 20:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Based on what I've read so far, I agree with Jpgordon - either Tom should give a better explanation or undo the ban. ] (]) 00:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


Elonka tells me I didn't follow the correct steps to impose a topic ban. I will not be enforcing the topic ban, or having anything more to do with the page(s). ] <sup>]</sup> 16:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, but I'm aware of the 3RR, and I haven't violated it. If you'd like to call in someone to mediate, that's fine with me. ] 05:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


::Thanks to all of those who became constructively involved in this matter. Since Harrison won't apologize, I will. I'm sorry that one admin's precipitous and ill-conceived decisions/actions wasted the time and consumed the efforts of so many.


::Harrison, thanks for the notification that the ban is no longer in effect and that you intend to have nothing more to do with the article. I'd be lying if I said you'll be missed. ] (]) 18:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
==]==
I'd love to know your thoughts on this new outline I've proposed for this highly problematic page. Any ideas or feedback? Thanks! ] 20:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


=== Moving forward ===
You can be nice. I've seen you do it. But your 22:13, 6 February 2009 post drips venom. It's not polite to say "so-called sources." Please try to stay on-topic and be cordial. - ] 02:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


"''Venom''"? Wow. That bad, huh? I'll have to go back and check it (but later, please). I guess my fatigue (I've been up going on now, oh, 28 hours, still working on a deadline) and my flat-out impatience/fed-upness (yeah, I made it up) with Zara are showing. But I'm knocking off for the night. I'm (literally) falling asleep at my computer. Just thought I'd check WP once more before crashing for about four hours and then getting back at it. Yeah, I can tone it down, but I just don't think I can type one more word tonight. You should go to bed, too.
* 0 Intro


Goodnight. ] (]) 05:05, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
* 1 History
::1.1 '''Race'''
::1.2 '''Intelligence testing'''
::1.3 '''Origin of the idea of intelligence as a function of race'''


::Hi, deeceevoice, I am greatly impressed with what you have to add, but had a small piece of advice. Let us remember the aphorism "Who the cap fit" - if there's problematic behavior, just try to describe the "cap" without naming any names, and then see if anyone puts the cap on and decides it fits them! It's also slightly more diplomatic than mounting a direct attack! ] (]) 14:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
* 2 Contemporary questions
::2.1 '''Race'''
:::2.1.1 ''Genetic hypothesis''
:::2.1.2 ''Validity of "race"''


== Egypt ==
::2.2 '''Intelligence testing'''
:::2.2.1 ''The psychometric approach''
:::2.2.2 ''Multiple forms of intelligence''
:::2.2.3 ''Cultural variation''
:::2.2.4 ''Developmental progressions''


I didn't mean to school you in NPOV. What I meant was, if you have a properly sourced significant view, you could save yourself the trouble of endless discussion on the talk page and just add the view to the article. And I meant that people who knew policy would back you up. Now, this is ust my personal opinion, but when I see any artile where the number of edits to the talk page are of an order of magnitude higher than edits to the article, there is something wrong - and in my experience at least half the time th solution to the problem is not more talk, but actually just adding the points one would make on the talk page to the article itself. That's all. ] | ] 22:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
:: 2.3 '''Average gaps among races'''


:Easy for you to say. The last time I tried that, I got slapped with a three-month content ban. Like I said, all I was doing was answering your question. ;) ] (]) 22:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
::2.4 '''Explanations'''
:::2.4.1 ''Environmental factors''
::::2.4.1.1 Test bias
::::2.4.1.2 Characteristics of tests
::::2.4.1.3 Socioeconomic factors
::::2.4.1.4 Culture factors
::::2.4.1.5 Public debate and policy implications
:::2.4.2 ''Genetic factors/Groups and intelligence''
:::2.4.3 ''Intelligence as a function of race, contemporary views''
::::2.4.3.1 Significance of group IQ differences
::::2.4.3.2 Public debate and policy implications


::Well, next time you have a specific text you want added, let me know and if we both think I can be of help, I will do my best. ] | ] 03:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
==Get Down==
I can't believe these two users think it's a "neologism." Maybe to them it seems that way. I never bought in to the complaints of the whole "systematic destruction of African culture" crowd. But, this is starting to make me change my mind, wow.... Three sources and a picture and it's still a "questionable neologism" I guess I need to get a certificate from the government certifying this word as legitimate and present my freedom papers too. Holy cat!] 12:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


:::Thanks. I appreciate the offer. :) ] (]) 04:57, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
==R & I "new intro"==
::::Deeceevoice, thanks for your hard work and, above all, for your vigilance!--] (]) 23:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
] I've written a new intro, I'd love your feedback-- the talk page over there has been quiet since I posted it. I'm worried! ] 01:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::Please, have a look to ]. The article has been radically changed by ] and friends--] (]) 12:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::You ''can't'' be surprised. ;) I'm really busy at the moment -- and I see that the page has been locked down -- again -- anyway. And I'm also pretty damned bored with this website. You don't honestly think this virulently racist/backward website can ''ever'' be a venue for any intelligent discussion of such matters regarding Black people -- do you? I may return and take a look at the talk page and weigh in when I have a moment -- and, of course, I'll always take time to respond to specific issues that need addressing. Peace to you, my dear brother. Stay up. ] (]) 01:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


==What happened?==
No time for the next several days, but I'll get around to it. I won't be around much for probably a week or so. Deadlines! Good to see you're hanging in. You're a real asset to the project -- whether people know it or not. Peace. ] 19:29, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Deeceevoice, where are you? Where have you been? I hope you didn't leave. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:It's good to see you back. I thought you died. ] (]) 14:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
==Re: Get Down AfD==
Hehe, no problem. I like to cut out what doesn't deserve to be here, but that article clearly does. Best to you, ] 18:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


I have a question I think you can answer. We know Africans and Europeans had conflicts in the beginning of the slave trade. Did some Africans help the Europeans capture slaves or was it strictly a European thing? ] (]) 17:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
==Ancient African Civilizations==


:It's been pretty well established for some time now that indigenous Africans conducted raids into villages, took captives and sold them to slavers. It's doubtful they had any idea what was in store for their hapless victims, but the fact is -- yes -- black folks were complicit in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Why is that so difficult for so many black folks to own up to/accept? White folks don't have a corner on cruelty or greed. ] (]) 17:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
If you look at the page ] you'll see that there is not much listed there from Africa. (When I first looked at it Egypt was listed under "Eurasian" civilizations, so I created a section for "North Africa" and put it there!) I'd like to add some African civilizations, but being a 'math person' with scant knowledge of history I don't know where to start. What are the greatest BC African civilizations? Any suggestions? I might just work on adding more information on those civilizations' pages before adding them to the civilizations page. There was an awful lot of debate about ''even including'' the ] in the list, so I want this to be solid and well-sourced. I thought you might be able to help since you seem quite knowledgeable about African history. Thanks! ] 18:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


::I was just asking a question. ] (]) 17:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I would change "North Africa" to "Nile Valley." "North Africa" to lots of people means Arabs, and they think of the Maghreb -- Morocco, Tunisia, etc. (Part of the way white folks have played with words to wipe out black history.) Nile Valley civilizations would include pre-dynastic Egypt as well and the Kush/Meroitic cultures. And then there's Abyssinia and its influence on Egypt. Nok culture/Ile-Ife, Timbuktu in present-day Mali, Songhay, Benin, Ashanti, Kanem-Bornu -- well, some of these are medieval, now that I think about it. But, yes. Another that came to my mind (before I completely read your post) was the Olmec civilization, as well. See the article ], which addresses an ancient, black presence in the Americas and provides links. The civilizations of the Levant also were black (which is one of the reasons Arabs look the way they do; all that African blood didn't come from the slave trade). Martin Bernal, Runoko Rashidi, Chancellor Williams and others all have argued there was a substantial and significant black presence in the classical world. Furthermore, while some would argue some of the civilizations of these civilizations were not black ''per se'', there is considerable evidence that they were heavily influenced by ancient Egypt, and African civilizations to the south; indeed, dynastic Egypt originated with black peoples to the South. Upper and Lower Egypt were unified by Menes/Narmer, who came from the South. In addition to being referred to as the Scorpion king, he also was known as "King Catfish." (You can't tell me dat bwoi wasn't black! :p) And then there is the ancient black presence in Asia. There's ample documentation for that, too. ] 19:28, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


:::I understand. It's just one that has been answered fairly definitively -- and for quite some time. Peace. ] (]) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I knew you were the right person to ask about this! ] 14:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


Hey, nice to see this page pop up on my watch list. How are you doing? Good to see you around. ] (]) 18:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
==]==


:I'm not staying long -- or doing much while I'm here. But I'm well, thanks. :) I trust you and yours are, too? ] (]) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this real? It looks suspect to me. ] 14:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


Okay, here's my last question. Was Ancient Egypt really a black empire? Or was it non-black? ] (]) 17:33, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looked suspect to me, too -- so I googled it (something you should have done). It's legit. I corrected the spelling of "woolly," noted a few places where citations were necessary, made a few copyedits -- and moved the article to a properly spelled heading. I don't mind your messages and communications about stuff on the site; I welcome your comments. But, please, use your search engine! ] 16:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


:Its origins were Black and African. And Egypt ''remains'' primarily black. Some people just can't/won't get it into their noggins that Black people built a high civilization while they were still living like barbarians. ] (]) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::For the record I did google it and I found a lot of silly things that claimed to be science. I still find it suspect... take a look at this:
==African admixture==
There is a debate on the article ] regarding the presence of haplogroup ] in Europe. Some editors are arguing that E3b does not constitute "African admixture" even though it is known to have originated in East Africa. Seeing that you are interested in African history, if you have any free time, your comments would be appreciated. ] (]) 01:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
==Request for clarification==
Please, go to .--] (]) 14:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


== Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy ==
<blockquote>Not only is African hair wiry, it is also frequently coarse. So why is this?


FYI: I am not sure that anyone has actually been banned. I checked the block record for several peope who had "banned" messages on their talk pages, and in fact I saw no record of their being blocked, and i saw that several have made edits recently. Sock-puppets will be banned, and there is nothing I can do about that. But there are others who seem to be good-faith editors who have done nothing to justify a block. if I am wrong and someone actually has been blocked, please let me know. ] | ] 16:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
African hair produces plenty of protective oils, called sebum. In fact, African hair actually produces more oils than Caucasian and Asian hair. However, due to the tight curls, the oil fails to spread evenly along the hair fiber.


== DYK ==
Without lubrication, the fibers become very dry. This causes the brittle strands to flake and roughen, resulting in hair that is coarse to the touch. Very curly hair from all ethnic groups often lacks the silky smoothness of straight hair. This may due to the same reason, but to a lesser extent.


Did you know that ArbCom has formed a new council to devise new forms of Misplaced Pages governance(])? I thought you might be interested in looking over who has been made a member of this council. They were not selected through any kind of transparent process. I have strong doubts about at least one of them, based on comment, which I believe would be of interest to you. You and I know Misplaced Pages has problems that need to be addressed. Is a council with this member going to address them? ] | ] 10:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The brittleness of African hair adds to the illusion that it cannot be grown long. The tight curls create stresses at each turn in the hair fiber. The hair strands become weak and fragile, making them prone to breakage. As a result, tightly coiled hair tends to stay quite short. </blockquote>
:No, I didn't. Thanks for the heads-up. I've checked it out and registered my comments in the appropriate space. As far as Jenna what's-her-face (who commented here, then expunged her remarks), IMO, anyone who doesn't see so-called "white pride" as a reactionary, racist, white supremacist phenomenon likely either: 1) is a racist him/herself and being disingenuous, 2) doesn't have a clue what racism is, 3) is intolerably, unforgivably naive, 4) in denial, or 5) bent on methamphetamine and/or home brew. And, no. I have serious doubts whether such a person belongs on any kind of advisory panel for Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 18:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


provides more context and discussion of the issue at hand... if we are going to have a real conversation about race at Misplaced Pages, this might be the place to have it (or to use it as a spring board into a discussion of how the policy council should investigate raceialized conflicts). ] | ] 19:47, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
::Ummmm... maybe some of this is true, but it just sounds like she's making all of this up to me. I mean, with traditional African hair styles hair is quite soft and can grow quite long... at least as far as I know... but, I'm no expert. Am I paranoid? Maybe. I think it comes from trying to edit that race and intelligence article. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 00:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->


== Courtesy note ==
The terms "coarse" and "fine" in the context of human hair refer to the thickness of the hair shaft. Coarseness has absolutely nothing to do with the way hair feels to the touch. Straight, fine hair can be wiry; black, coarse hair can be as soft as wool. And of course black hair grows long! It's all about how it's groomed. I mean if we didn't oil, braid and twist our hair, it probably ''would'' break. But -- news flash -- we do groom our hair. Finally, I don't know that business about black hair producing more oil. White folks got some oily hair (which is why they have to wash it so frequently)! Furthermore, it's the flattened, elliptical shape of the hair shaft that gives black hair reduced tensile strength. I don'to think it has anything to do with oil (or the lack thereof), given that we oil our hair. The editor is partially correct on some points. On others, looks like they pullin' it out they a**. Peace & hair grease! :p ] 11:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


This is a courtesy note to inform you that the set of five recent Ancient Egyptian race controversy topic bans by {{user|Ice Cold Beer}} has been raised at arbitration enforcement for review: ]. I am informing you because you are an involved party or commented at the arbitration clarification request. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to leave me a talk page message. --] (]) 01:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
:And I know what you're saying when you say you read a lot of stuff that sounds like pseudo-science. Yeah. Like white archaeologists speculating that Akenathen had Marfan's syndrome, which is why he had elongated limbs. (Gee, could it have been that he was a normal, healthy, Nilotic blackman?) Or that King Tut had a genetic disorder which is why his head was so freakin' long. (Gee, could it have been that he was a normal, healthy, black kid with a peanut head?) Or, that the Queen of Punt on that famous wall mural had lipodystrophy? Or, even more ridiculous, that she had some made-up "Queen of Punt" syndrome that hadn't/hasn't been recorded before or since in human history. (Gee, could it simply have been that she was an obese Khoisan woman? I mean look at dat Bantu booty of hers. Lipodystrophy is characterized by wasting of the buttocks. Gimme a break!) ''Any'' kind of stupid sh*t to try to rob us of our history. ] 17:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


== GA reassessment of ] ==
==Re: the failed ] AfD -- a sore loser?==


I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the ]. I have found a large number of concerns with the referencing which you can see at ]. I have de-listed the article. This decision may be challenged at ]. Thanks. ] (]) 20:12, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The "Enough is enough" comment (below) was posted after this exchange on]'s talk page about his failed attempt to have the article deleted -- without discussing it with anyone beforehand.


== A bold proposal ==
::Since the debate seems to be doing rather well, despite its good-faith AfD nomination, I think I shall steer clear of the discussion without offering an opinion, in order to not disrupt the flow of dialogue. Parts of the debate are slightly tenderer than your average. ]] 21:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


In an attempt to turn a divisive RfC into something productive I have created a new page. I hope you will come and do what you can to help make it work: ] ] | ] 00:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
(Bobo192 was responding to MacMillan's request that he take a look at his AfD. -- and, as you can see, he declined. I responded to Bobo's comment -- something which happens all the time on talk pages. It's called ''talk''/discussion.)


Well, I think Misplaced Pages has "diversity" issues. One of the areas for reform on this project page is, how to recruit and retain editors and I wish some of the discussion addressed how welcoming a place this is for people whose life experiences and ways of expression do not match that of the original 30 something white male computer programmer demographic that so long dominated Misplaced Pages. If you know people who have given this matter thought please encourage them to go to the project page and participate.
::''Au contraire.'' The AfD, IMO, was ''not'' in good faith. This guy made no attempt at all to discuss his concerns about the subject matter before initiating it; the talk page is completely empty. ''That'' is not acting in good faith. His was a wasted effort -- and he took up a lot of other people's time unnecessarily. The article is a ''stub'' (which I started because there are a lot of inconsequential "get down" songs with separate articles -- but absolutely no explanation of the African cultural phenomenon that gave rise to the term, or to the phenomenon in African-American and American popular culture) -- anywhere. MacMillan jumped on the piece without consulting anyone and tried to obliterate it based solely on his ignorance of the subject. ''Not'' acceptable! ] 12:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


As for commenting on the topic ban - I think it is reasonable to give ICB this week to finish providing statements. At that point I think it is reasonable to protest to ArbCom that an appeal cannot be endlessly delayed because someone needs more time to put together the evidence for a ban that should have been provided when the ban was first issued. But as soon as ICB provides the evidence (which I think he has in this case) I think it is a good idea to go over it and give a response.
::Let me rephrase that. MacMillan's AfD ''may'' have been initiated in good faith, but the precipitous, unilateral manner in which he went about it raises doubts in that regard. ] 13:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


Frankly, I think that ICB is right that some people did commit blockable errors. Now, whether these merit a six month topic ban, or whether the blocks were issued in a partisan way, gets to questions of structural inequality at Misplaced Pages which is precisely why I created a project page to discuss reform. Another editor in fact started a thread on bans. That is the place to address systemicproblems at Misplaced Pages and devise policy remedies.
===Enough is enough===


More practically, I think it is reasonable for banned users to request mentoring and a kind of "parole" to work specifically on whatever got them banned.
Please stop badgering me over Get down. Every editor has a right to do what they believe is best for the encyclopedia and I certainly did not nominate it with "bad faith". However, I will stop responding to every and all comments from you on this matter here forth because the situation is closed and you do not need to keep repeating your point, as have you done on several talk pages, the Get down AfD and even my talk page, which your last entry will be deleted from because of its pointless addition and the fact that it is not even directed towards me. In conclusion, please refrain responding to this and ].--] 15:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


My philosophy is pretty simple: there is a politics here, and the policies are described in such a way that they can be interpreted so loosely that it is practically inevitable that some people will be blocked because someone basically finds them irritating. My solution to this situation is to figure out what kinds of policies you can get screwed on, and then be absolutely devoted to making sure you never ever violate those policies. I view Misplaced Pages in many ways as a game. There are certain rules that are not written down and if you figure out what they are and play by them, you can win (i.e. help create an article that is of the quality to which you believe articles should aspire) but if you do not play by them you will lose. It is unfortunate that some editors play Misplaced Pages like a game but they do and it is not too hard to learn to beat them at their own game but you have to be willing to look at things that way. Just my personal opinion. ] | ] 13:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Such hyperbole and pettiness! Not quite true, TM. And, furthermore, unlike you, I didn't approach ''anyone'' and ask them to weigh in on the topic. You didn't do what you should have done and got soundly spanked for it. What? Your ego bruised? Not my problem. Don't compound your inappropriate behavior by being a ]/ass and a sore loser. Kindly refrain from leaving messages on my talk page in the future. I'll simply delete them -- unread. *x* See ya around the project. :)] 15:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


==Fair use rationale for File:Oreo Fun Barbie.jpg==
Touchy, ''touchy''! What's that thing that black folks say? "Don't start nun, won't ''b'' nun." Yeah. Dat. ] 15:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading or contributing to ''']'''. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under ] but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Misplaced Pages constitutes fair use. Please go to ] and edit it to include a ].


If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "]" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on ]. If you have any questions please ask them at the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-no fair use rationale-notice --> ] 01:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
'''Oh, this is ''precious''!'''


* No problem - I fixed the fair use rationale - it was uploaded as a free image but any photo of a copyrighted toy is a derivative work and therefore non-free - it's a common mistake as people think their photos are their own copyright. ] 22:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Just found this on the talk page of ]. Not content to come here and tell me to "stop being a dick," MacMillan (this guy's a trip w/o a suitcase) has the ''gall'' to ''complain'' to an admin that I and others are "harassing" and "badgering" him. And -- get ''this'' -- that ''I'' have exercised "very bad faith." lol:


== Thomas Jefferson GAR notification ==
<blockquote>Hello there Grutness,</blockquote>


] has been nominated for a ]. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are ].--] <small>(]/]/]/]/]) </small> 20:42, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
<blockquote>Recently, I nominated an article for deletion which I believed was a neologism. After vigorous debate on the topic and improvements to the article, I withdrew the nomination. However, one user, the creator of the article, continues to badger me about the nomination. He and another user have exercised very bad faith, comparing me to a colonizer and writing on my talk page many times after I withdrew the nomination saying that I am a "sore loser" among many other things. I reverted the discussion on my talk page because of how utterly pointless it is, but read ] if you want to see. The AfD name was Get down, and you can read the AfD discussion ]. I tried to be polite with the user and have a reasonable discussion, but I saw this was not possible. I then asked for him to refrain from commenting on the situation anymore, which he replied with 4 posts and an addendum. Your help would be much appreaciated.--] 16:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)</blockquote>


==KEEP UP THE FIGHT DEECEEVOICE==
The admin doesn't get involved, so MacMillan replies.


Keep up the fight against the bully's and corrupters of the process, admirer of greatness. Keep perservering.] (]) 20:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
<blockquote>Thank you for the reply. I have decided to just unwatch the page and the users involved and ignore any comments left elsewhere. It is not worth the hassle of getting back into it. Thank you for the referral and, as always, keep up the good work!--] 06:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)</blockquote>
==]==
Deeceevoice, I hope you heard about Dr Marimba Ani, an African American Anthropologist, well known for her contributions in the Afrocentric School. I have created an article on her, but in less than twelve hours, somebody came to delete it. I need your help to resume this article which was just in creation. Actually it is really astonishing that there isn't an article on such an important figure in Misplaced Pages. If you have time, please listen to Dr Marimba Ani --] (]) 07:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


:Deeceevoice, hello to you! Jayen466 has created an article on Dr Marimba Ani. Your help will be highly appreciated.] (]) 15:13, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Good thing, TM. I notice your exaggeration/misrepresentation about the number of posts I made to your page. I also note you didn't mention your "stop being a dick" comment. What? You thought it was somehow not relevant? ''Had'' you gone to the Administrators' notice board, I'd simply have thrown your own words right back atcha. Don't start nun, won't b nun. Words to live by. And if you're going to invite someone in, you'd better make sure your house is in order first. ] 18:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
====Hang in there, I couldn't do it anymore====


Well, it finally wore me out and I quit contributing. I'm glad to see you are still at it. I gave up when somebody basically threw away all my work on ] and replaced it with ignorant crap "from a book" the way the new Misplaced Pages likes it. The old article is stashed away on the talk page, but I just don't like being angry all the time, so I have shifted back to my other hobbies. Good luck to you and I hope you have more patience than I did (you certainly seem to have it). Best regards, ] (]) 18:25, 5 December 2009 (UTC) (Tom Parmenter)
==]==
No problem. It was the right thing to do, IMNSHO. ] 16:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


== Thanks ==
==Filing a complaint against Asian2duracell==
I am sending you this message in regards to a report I am filing against Asian2duracell to the ''Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration''. He has been found guilty of racial intollerance, name calling, trolling, sock puppetry, and vandalism. All other methods of conflict resolution have been tried and failed. Please let me know that you are aware of this request and if you would like to participate in this. Regards. ] 01:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


I never thanked for your condolence note last year, but I appreciate it more than I can possibly express. All the best, in friendship. ] (]) 16:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, absolutely. I'll weigh in on is incivility and edit warring. ] 02:27, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


:Been a while since I've seen you - hope all is well with you. ] (]) 16:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
==African-American template==
==GA reassessment of ]==


I have conducted a reassessment of the above article following its listing at ]. You are being notified as you have made a number of contributions to the article. I have found some concerns which you can see at ]. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. &ndash;&ndash; ] (]) 13:06, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree the flag makes more sense. Thanks for helping to keep an eye on this. Have you signed up for ] ? ] 17:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


==File source problem with File:Picaninny Freeze.jpg==
Thanks for the heads-up. I just did. :) ] 19:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
]
Thank you for uploading ''']'''. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the ] status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.


If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created . '''Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged''' per Misplaced Pages's ], ]. If the image is ] and ], '''the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)''' per ] criterion ]. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-no source-notice --> — ]] 18:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
==Your Userpage==
Hi. Can I suggest you make your userpage pic a bit smaller? It's very big just, and slightly annoying to have to scroll down to see most of the page comment. If you choose not to do so, please don't bother yourself to reply to this message.] 18:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
<blockquote>I'm in favor of leaving the picture as large as it is. I've never seen it like that on any other page and believe it adds character. Plus it's as perfectly "in your face" as the user it belongs to. I don't mind scrolling down and neither should you. As a recommendation, why not inform the uninformed to stop making unnecessary posts on the talk page. That cuts down on scrolling too.
--] 01:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
p.s. Na na na na na :p</blockquote>


==]==
I wasn't even going to respond to martianlostinspace, though I took no offense at his/her request. You, Docjay, get a gold star. You get it. *wink* Peace 2 both of you. ] 07:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place on the most appropriate and helpful name for the article on the musical form the ]. It is currently named ]. It was moved to ], then moved back to ]. A current suggestion is ]. Wider consensus is welcomed. <span style="border: 1px #F10; background-color:cream;">''']''' *]</span> 13:01, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


==I'm confused==
== Sheila Jackson Lee ==
What's up with all of these black folks wanting to claim Native American heritage? It's like they think there's something wrong with being black. The overwhelming majority of black people in the U.S. have no trace of Indian heritage at all. A few do, but most don't. All of that lightness is from white European men having their way with black African women. It could be a romanticization of our past, which is wrong because it attempts to rewrite our history since some Indian tribes had black slaves and treated them like shit, but I think it's mostly self-hatred. They must think anything black or African is ugly or evil while anything not black or African is cute or good. And why do they think indigenous Africans are all jet black with flat broad noses and kinky afros? Some are like that, but others are brown-skinned with medium-sized noses and curly hair. They're not "multiracial," it's just that Africans have the most diverse DNA on the planet, which proves the black man is the original man and the black woman is the original woman. Also, they seem to think a light-skinned black man or woman is not black even if that person identifies as black. What? If you notice, this mostly exists among some ignorant and confused black Americans. It's all self-hating, "I-want-to-be-anything-but-black" nonsense. I'd like to know what you think. ] (]) 15:22, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


== You should come back ==
I fixed your cut and paste move of ]. As you'd left it the entire editing history of the article would have been lost. It was an easy fix, but try to avoid "cut and paste" moves in the future. -] · ] · 19:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


Hi, I think you should come back here. You don't know me and I don't know you but I have been following your edits first by accident and I like the way you defend your corner. I think you edit with integrity which is what Wiki really needs . Certain people want to curtail certain articles especially when it is about people's race or religion no matter how well sourced. It has been done to me several times where people gang on you to discredit your article or block you or nominate your articles for deletion etc. I have had it all. It has been done to me several times and I almost gave up said "let them have their Wiki". What keeps me here is my people. I am lucky enough to acquire some knowledge and I intend to share that knowledge whenever I'm free to do so and no editor will silence me here. Certain people wants to see you gone and silence, no more articles about your people or if there are, to be molded to their liking. Giving up to these people is the worst thing you could do. Come back and share your knowledge.
Yep, I know. Had intended to deal with this when I had more time, so thanks for doing so. It was necessitated by a typo error/double post that wouldn't allow me to simply move the page. ] 07:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
] (]) 18:33, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
:Seconded. :) --''']]]''' 02:04, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


== Possibly unfree File:Black family subsistence fishing.jpg ==
:Another editor recently moved the article back to the hyphenated version. I did some research and presented what I found, but I really don't have a preference, or even a clear appreciation for which is more correct. Would you mind giving your viewpoint on the talk page? Cheers, -] · ] · 07:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
A file that you uploaded or altered, ], has been listed at ] because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the ]. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at ] if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw-puf --> ] <sup>]</sup> 20:13, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

==File source problem with File:Slave Auction Ad.jpg==
I recently called Lee's office about the divestment legislation before the Virginia Assembly. (Since she's an AKA, I wanted her to send an e-mail to the Greek-letter organizations on the campus of Virginia Union, requesting their involvement in helping to get the legislation over the hump in the house of delegates.) Her legislative aide told me her name is ''not'' hyphenated, even though the web says otherwise. ] 08:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
]

Thank you for uploading ''']'''. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the ] status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the ].
:If you care about the issue then please add your comments to the talk page. -] · ] · 20:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I know, thanks. But in the scheme of things -- really -- who cares? ] 17:37, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Paper Bag Test==

Hi deeceevoice. I was wondering if the PBT or ideas of division among African Americans based on lightness of skin color should be a separate article. Or is that sufficiently covered elsewhere? I'm checking wiki pages to see what i can add, and i was wondering if you thought such an addition would be helpful. ] 18:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

:Jeeze. I hardly think it merits an article of its own! Maybe a redirect to another article where it's mentioned. Don't know where. But it's definitely not worthy of a separate entry. It would seem it could be covered under, say, an article on self-loathing (maybe titled "self hatred" here?), or something about skin-color bias or something.... ] 23:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

::I wrote the paper bag article, by the way (FYI.) ''Is'' there an article on "ideas of division among African Americans based on lightness of skin color"??? I agree that could be covered under "]" <-- I wonder what's there? ] 23:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

::: Someone did a redirect to ]. You might want to check it out to see if your text is covered or has been incorporated into that article. "Colorism" needs help. See my edit note. ] 00:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

::::Oh, now I get it. ] is the stub I made a year ago or so... I changed the redirect-- do you think it should be merged? ] 00:19, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

:::Absolutely. ] 01:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::Excellent work on the PBP article, futurebird! I hadn't seen it. I think that it should also be under ] perhaps, cuz that is one sad article. ] 20:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

==This Banjo nonsense...==
... is getting a little silly. How about an RFC? Do you think that could settle the question? ] 23:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. I'm trying to see the last poster's point. I added in what I saw were appropriate, related articles in the AA template box that were missing. We'll see how the editor responds now. ] 23:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)



==Feedback==

I'd love to have your feedback on these proposed changes:

# ]- change to match sub-article
# ]- change to match sub-article
# ]-I've proposed two revisions here, if they don't work... why?
# ]

] 19:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Dang, girl! Don't you do anything besides Misplaced Pages? I'm busy working on Sudan divestment right now -- and I've got deadlines. Will take a look when I have time, probably sometime next week. Peace. ] 01:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks ] 00:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

==OH MY GOD==

Deecee, I'm gonna lose it any second now. I start adding and this guy with some IQ figures that I guess he intends to mean that it is true that the Irish are just a bunch of dumb paddies. I don't even know where to start criticizing this. I'm just very ANGRY. I'm going to change my username to ANGRYbird... AHHHH!! ] 00:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

==Orphaned fair use image (Image:Rodman book cover.jpg)==
Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently ], meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. ] if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see ]).

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==Black people==

Every opinion in the black people artilce gona piss someone off. If everyone remove opinions just cause the person might be racist or a hack, no article will be left. Black supremacists. Afrocentrics piss me off but I don't remove them from the article ]

]
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Black people|, as you are doing in ]}}. If you continue, you may be ] from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the ] prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for ], even if they do not technically violate the ]. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you.<!-- Template:3RR -->--] 14:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Ur kidding. U come out of retirement to warn ''me'' and say nothing to the instigator of all this, Xmasgirl? Check the edit summaries and the talk page. Puhleeze. *x* ] 14:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
:I warned her as well. I just found this edit war particularly annoying when I went back to edit my account. --] 14:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I see. Your warning to her posted after I made my post here. ''You'' found/find it annoying? Well, that makes two of us! ] 19:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

==Image:Two Curve Bell.jpg==
Please weigh in on this IfD ] 07:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

==Thank you!==
Thank you so much for your help with that IfD, It's nice to see things going the right way... for once. You know, it's string to feel like there is a real community here, and I'm starting to think that the wikipedia can be the kind of place that, with some work, people will be able to trust for ''real'' information... even on controversial topics. So, thank you. You comments got me to smile at a time that I needed to. This stuff can get me very depressed, you been such a big help, in so many ways. I can't even count 'em... and I'm a math teacher. ] 20:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't get all warm and fuzzy and rosy about this place, bird. It's still a racist dungheap. ] 22:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

==]==

Hi Deeceevoice. I just feel that in your attempt to discredit a definition (which is only 1 out of dozens in the article), you are adding stuff to the article that is far more offensive than the quote you are trying to discredit. The quote is not saying anything bad about black people, it's simply identifying a segment of the population that the source uses the term to refer to. But in trying to discrecit the definition, you are adding negative stereotypes of black people to the article that will peak reader curiosity and cause them to read the source's theories. I also worry that if you try too hard to discredit the source, others will add information to defend the source, and then pretty soon the article will get off topic. I also worry you might start a trend where people who disagree with every controversial statement in the article will feel the need to discredit the source in the black people article itself instead of in the source's article. For example there are several on the talk page who disagree with Cheikh Anta Diop. I worry that people will follow your lead and feel the need to discredit him in the article on the grounds that the reader has the right to know his Afrocentric attitudes etc. It could cause a very well organized article to spiral into disorder. ]

My ''point'' is to get the editors who want to include such information to do so from a ''credible'' source. This guy is ''not'' a credible source. And if you can't see that after all ''that'' information, then I don't know what to tell you. Getting publised (particularly in this age of endless media outlets, sensationalism and incivility) or occupying a university position hardly makes one a credible, authoritative source. "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one." In this case, this guy ''is'' an opinion -- if you get my meaning. Misplaced Pages is an ''encyclopedia'', for God's sake. We should strive for a higher standard when utilizing people as sources. This guy doesn't pass muster; his biases are grotesquely evident. I am going to continue to insist that this guy's pedigree be evident to the reader. If they're going to consider his opinion, then they're entitled to know just what kind of a racist sleazebag he is. Frankly, I think it's pathetic that anyone would even ''consider'' using him as a source for ''anything'' in an encyclopedia. IMO, it seriously calls into question the judgment of some of the editors at work on the article -- not to mention the integrity of the entire project.] 21:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

His ideas are nutty, but he's a credible source in the sense that he's a scholary source. He's published his ideas in peer reviewed academic journals. He has a very distinguished academic career. Even if he represents academic racism, acadeic racism has historically and even today played a huge role in how black identity has been socially constructed, so the article is not complete unless we explain how an allegedly academic racist decides who is black, and since we need to cite at least 1 allegedly racist academic, Rushton is the one to cite since he's the most scholarly of this group, and since his ideas have been so influential in creating stereotypes about black and Asian penis size etc ]

His ideas haven't been influential about creating stereotypes about black and Asian penis size. Such stereotypes, though obviously not universally applicable, are based in objective fact. It's his extrapolations that are in question here. Reads like a mean, little man with intellect, but little real intelligence -- and a very small one. Reads like penis envy to me. :p ] 22:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:LOL! I have no idea whether his penis size data is correct or not but he is responsible for getting people to assume that men of sub-Saharan descent have larger penises and that East Asian men are penis challenged. The earliest explorers of sub-Saharan Africa had observed the large penises but these observations had mostly been forgoten until Rushton brought it back using modern statistics and related it to AIDS. Essentially what Rushton is claiming is that less evolved organisms such as bacteria, snakes, salmon, can only survive by reproducing as much as possible as quickly as possible, and he argues that since the first humans were Africans, they're less evolved (compared to other humans) and thus are superior in all the traits that allow one to reproduce as much as possible(genitalia size, breast size, buttox size, extraverted personality, muscle mass, speed of physical, motor and sexual maturation, gestitation speed, orgasm frequency, number of sexual partners, frequency of twinning, number of sexual fantasies, more testosterone) but he argues that since East Asians came most recently in evolution and had to survive in a cold winter environment, they survive by having fewer children but invest more in parental care and thus are superior in traits like brain size and intelligence, mental stability, law abidingness, social organization, higher birth weight babies with less infant mortatlity etc. On all of these traits he claims whites are in the middle with blacks and East Asians at opposite extremes. It's an extremely strange theory ]

Forgotten by ''whom''? It's common knowledge out here that white men and Asians have relatively/generally smaller penises than black men. I don't know where you've been! Still, I really couldn't care less about Rushton's theories in that regard, though. He's a jackass. ] 00:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
:It's been common knowledge since 1989, when Rushton went public with his theory ]

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. That's like saying the fact that the sun comes up in the morning has been common knowledge since 1989. What? You've got to be joking! I've known it practically all my life. It's simply common knowledge, and it's got absolutely nothing to do with Rushton -- whatsoever. It's always been an undercurrent in tensions between black men and white men -- particular with regard to black men and white women, and also with regard to the relative disdain with which many black women historically have regarded the notion of relationships with white men (that and other reasons). Hell, when southern crackkkahs lynched black men, they particularly enjoyed castrating them and making souvenirs of their genitalia. Sum sick sh*t that. You must be a youngun not to know something as basic -- and pervasive -- as this. I haven't read this, but just so you know. ] 00:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
:You might be right. I was still a kid when Rushton's theory came out so it was the first time I heard about it, but perhaps I'm generalizing too much from my personal experience. As for the stereotype that East Asians have small penises, I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but that might have been discovered/popularized by Rushton ]

No "might" about it. That's a definite. And wrong again. Asians -- common knowledge for God knows how long, too. ] 00:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

== Rolling on floor, laughing ==

I was literally off the chair after reading your words at the bell curve discussion. ---] 21:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

- Just stating facts. That old heiffer's name was Wilhelmina Smithy, if memory serves. A real Germanic- (maybe Russian-) -lookin', arm wrestlin', cow-milkin', two-fisted-beer-drinkin', steroid-takin'-lookin' broad. If there's any justice, she's long gone now and moulderin' in the ground. ] 21:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

::Hey not all math teacers are evil! ] :P

== User notice: temporary 3RR block ==

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==Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!==
Like I give a sh*t. I'm crunching deadlines -- three of 'em, ''ad seriatim'', so 24 hours suits me just fine. ] 21:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


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== Revisiting Blackface in Thailand ==
"A Cameroonian painter and guitar player he befriended "was into James Brown and Joni Mitchell." There seemed to be no limit to cultural connections. Take the word "cool": "In West Africa when they want to say they are doing well, they'll use the image of coolness. In pidgin English, you refer to the woman you love as 'my cool heart.' As opposed to the Western world where the image of love is hot. Women wear fiery red lipstick. But 'cool' has come to be used here too. One of the first jazz records I owned was Miles Davis's 'The Birth of the Cool" -]


(Archived by WebCite® at http://www.webcitation.org/6JOjPtS82)
Reaching Deftly Beyond the Blues
By Mike Zwerin International Herald Tribune
Wednesday, August 23, 2000
http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/08/23/harris.2.t.php


] 15:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


If you have time for this, I'd like to discuss race in terms of this definition: <blockquote>"strong current of water," late 14c., perhaps a particular use of race (n.1), or from or influenced by Old French ''raz'', which had a similar meaning, and which probably is from Breton ''raz'' "a strait, narrow channel;" this French source also may have given race its meaning of "channel of a stream" (especially an artificial one to a mill), which is recorded in English from 1560s. Source — the other OED </blockquote>If you're willing, then I'll dig up what purports to be a graph of world history encompassing the entire Holocene that does a good job of illustrating races in that context, which far better fits the concept of race as experienced in this part of the world: Whatever floats your boat. —] (]) 05:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
''Histomap'' (1931): {{cite web
|url= http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/08/12/the_1931_histomap_the_entire_history_of_the_world_distilled_into_a_single.html?wpisrc=obnetwork
|title= The Entire History of the World—Really, All of It—Distilled Into a Single Gorgeous Chart
|last1= Onion|first1= Rebecca |last2= |first2=
|date= |website= The Vault
|publisher= ]
] (]) 12:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
|accessdate=5 September 2013
|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/6JP9ZkF57
|archivedate =2013-09-05
}}


==Image copyright problem with File:Majolica owl jug.jpg==
==hey==
]
Did you see the sources I added for ]? When I started looking in to this topic it was not clear to me if this topic was a branch of ] (that is, African ]) of if it was something else. I'm really bogged down with "]" right now. It's under mediation-- I'm starting to think that, though the article is still filled with a good amount of nonsense, it is looking more balanced. If you ever have a chance please take a look. I'd love any feedback you have on things that seem to be missing. I've worked so hard on this I'm thinking about it in my sleep and woke up with this little poem stuck in my head:
Thank you for uploading ].


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no school for harlem<br>
ain't harlem home?<br>
bisecting reason till it quivers<br>
what was once words and lines<br>
at last came out of me<br>
laughing idiotic poetry<br>


While the image description page states the source and copyright status of the derivative work, it only names the creator of the original work without specifying the status of their copyright over the work.
I'll fly on over to check out Black supremacy in the next few days. I'm just hoping that things will cool down. Don't want to get caught in the crossfire. ] 02:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


Misplaced Pages takes ] very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the '''license''' and the '''source''' of the original image. If you know this information, then you can add a ''']''' to the ].
:Hey back. :)


If you have uploaded other derivative works, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have created in .
:Maybe I'll have the patience over the weekend. That particular subject really pisses me off. My I.Q. is at genius level -- and I know so ''many'' others of us who are at ''least'' as intelligent as I. The numbers don't mean squat as far as I'm concerned. Too many people trip off that sh*t: white folks on a racist tip; insecure/narcissistic (flip sides of the same coin), black folks on a "I ain't a dumb (n-word) tip." How ''dare'' white folks still try to uphold that tired, hackneyed bullsh*t in this day and age. Honestly, I hate to even dignify that page with my presence! But since you've asked, I will....
:The SNCC thing at BS (appropriate acronym :p) really pissed me off. Stokely was in no way a supremacist. I can't stand those who come to a subject with an axe to grind, determined to lie and lie and lie about a subject, twist sources and edit war ''ad nauseam''. It's one of the things I really hate about this place. They and their sock puppets make a mockery of the project.
:"Don't want to get caught in the crossfire." Gurl, u shouldn't 've come then, 'cause if u stand up for us, u eventually become a target. Believe me, ur warm, fuzzy optimism about this place won't last long. Peace. ] 02:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the ]. {{You can request undeletion}} Thanks again for your cooperation.<!-- Template:Di-no license-notice --> ] <sup>]</sup> 08:38, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
:Just saw the stuff at ]. Cool. Thanks. :) Don't know if/when I'll get around to that one, but maybe someone with some common sense will attempt to tackle it. If I do, it'll probably be piecemeal, maybe dealing with cool first. (An edit warrior at ] keeps deleting the stuff I added. I finally got around to inserting the documentation for what I've contended all along. The edit warring is just sour grapes. Oh, no-oo-oooo. Something ''else'' they adore that they didn't invent/can't legitimately lay claim to! lol As annoying as this place is, sometimes u just gotta laugh. ] 02:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


That's some dumba** bullsh*t. But I've stopped giving a damn. *x* ] (]) 12:48, 3 November 2014 (UTC)


== Tut mystery solved ==


==fyi==


They sequenced his DNA


He was European after all. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 03:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Do you have anything to add to this? ] 05:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


Total bull. *X* Keep your silly lies off this page. http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf ] (]) 16:35, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:I've added a few comments, but they're probably more appropriate to an RfC against Rabaish, with his constant edit-warring and taking ] to an outside party for mediation/outside review (or whatever they call it). Clearly, the ongoing campaign by Rabaish to twist sources and edit-war a racist/paleocon agenda in the articles he edits needs to be addressed head-on. Honestly, I've never really paid much attention to this aspect of wiki operations. This place is infested with sock puppets.


== ] ==
:Also, have you checked out edits by this guy? 84.178.243.138 ] 08:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


Hi,<br>
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current ]. The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages ]. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to ] and submit your choices on ]. For the Election committee, ] (]) 22:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
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==re: 'cool', seeing red== == Contests ==
] has created ]. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --]<sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 01:15, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Is it really so painful to simply admit that one of the major aesthetic achievements of american culture has african origins? My... god... ] 07:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


==Please claim your upload(s): ] ==
==black people==


Hi,
I think we're very close to a compromise on this. I'm willing to accomodate you as much as possible as long as you acknowledge my concerns ]
This image was seemingly uploaded prior to current image polices, Thank you.


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I'm reading your responses and responding as best I can. (I feel like we're negotiating a treaty or something....) ] 12:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


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please see the "cool" talk page for explanation of changes. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 08:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
] (]) 11:53, 11 August 2016 (UTC)


== ]: Voting now open! ==


{{Ivmbox|Hello, Deeceevoice. Voting in the ''']''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
==hmm. I don't know how to do that==


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RFC? You can do that for a user? ] 14:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review ] and submit your choices on ''']'''. ] (]) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
==Ethiopians==
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Hopefully my views on Ethiopians don't offend you. Hallaqah was offended by my latest post but you and I have made such great progress cooperating in spite of our disagreement that I would hate to see this minor disagreement (which we've now solved) get in the way of the great work you and I have done on the article. I don't think it will because you've always expressed your disagreement in a civil and intelligent way. ]


{{Ivmbox|Hello, Deeceevoice. Voting in the ''']''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
I'm just now seeing this -- and I don't know when it was posted. (I suppose I could check the edit history.) Anyway, I haven't paid much attention to the text lately. Maybe I'll get back to it next week. Peace. :) ] 17:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


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==2005==
Was a long time ago. I really couldn't care less about the RFC 71.112.7.212 posted to my talk page on you. May I ask, though, was Rbaish involved in that process? If he/she was then it's just more evidence that 71.112.7.212 is a puppet. 22:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


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== Attention: WikiProject African diaspora participants ==
==Race and health==


Hello fellow project participants. Not sure how many users are still active as normal Misplaced Pages editors but felt the need to attempt to get a gauge on who can be called on for help with articles falling under the umbrella of the African diaspora project. According to the project's article table there are over six thousand articles related to the African diaspora; there's not a hundred at FA/GA grade and there's over twelve hundred that are unassessed. With Misplaced Pages being one of the major information reference points in the world today we should consider this unacceptable. Much work needs to be done on the rating of the importance of articles as well. With more communication amongst participants and a dedication to addressing the articles on the to-do list I believe we can make this WikiProject one of the most well organized and thorough on the site. If you are interested in collaborative work with some of your fellow project members, have certain expertise on any particular subjects, ideals on/about the WikiProject, etc. simply drop your name under the "Project revision" section I've created on the project's talk page and state your intentions and main points of interest in our WikiProject and we can attempt to move forward from there. Hoping to hear from everyone soon! ] (]) 03:07, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Rather than pull my hair out of the stupid ] article, I've started working on a brand new article on ] everything there is new as of yesterday. I hope that you'll take a look at this and point out anything you think I ought to add. ] 17:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


== '''AfroCine:''' Join us for the ''Months of African Cinema'' in October! ==
==]==


{{Ivmbox|]
I really need some help with this article. I've added a ton of evidence against the genetic explanation, but now WRN is trying to frame the whole thing in terms of "well you never know it might be genetics!" --It's the idea that no matter what you do, I mean, even if there was no test score gap, until you have proven there is NO genetic link you ought to assume that there is one. He's invoking ] and I think that's ABSURD. Occam's razor says choose the obvious cause: RACISM. duh duh duh. I've just about had it with this article. How many years will it be before people simply realise that (a) Jensen is a nut (b) we ought to have been spending all this time and research money trying to help people live better lives rather than trying to prove that people are inferior because of some 19th century vendetta in some circles of the academic community against africa.
]
Greetings!


You are receiving this message because your username or portal was listed as a participant of a WikiProject that is related to Africa, the Carribean, Cinema or theatre.
I'm just really angry and sick of going in circles. I need some help. I don't want to just give up and watch as all of my hard work is slowly obliterated. ] 05:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


This is to introduce you to a new Wikiproject called ''''']'''''. This new project is dedicated to improving the Misplaced Pages coverage of the history, works, people, places, events, etc, that are associated with the cinema, theatre and arts of Africa, African countries, the carribbean, and the diaspora. If you would love to be part of this or you're already contributing in this area, kindly list your name as a participant on the '']''.
I understand your frustration. What you're experiencing is exactly the kind of crap that has happened to my contributions here: e.g., the article on the "race" of the ancient Egyptians and on the Great Sphinx of Giza article. I'll be busy crunching deadlines all tonight, tomorrow and, likely, part of Monday, but I'll see what I can do sometime Monday -- in between working on DC Sudan divestment. (I've got calls to some city council folks to make.) Cool? ] 08:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


Furthermore, In the months of October and November, the WikiProject is organizing a global on-wiki contest and edit-a-thon tagged: ''']'''. If you would love to join us for this exciting event, also list your username as a participant for this event ]. In preparation for the contest, please do ] that need to be created or expanded in different countries, during this event!
I haven't even read the article yet, but I noticed that Rushton is dealt with a lot. So, I added the information about his background and criticism of his bullsh*t "studies." Also, I'm wondering if there's any information included in the article about language development and I.Q. It's another element that flat-out debunks the "black folks are inferior" crap racist POV pushers love to insert in articles such as this. ] 10:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


If you have any questions, complaints, suggestions, etc., please reach out to me personally on my talkpage! Cheers!--] (]) 20:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)}}
:: There is a section on the barriers presented by unrecognized dialects (as opposed to recognized languages) but it is quite short and could use some expansion. There's some BS in it to about "why do the Chinese do so well if they don't know english??" It totally fails to recognizes that no teacher would come up to a new kid who speaks Chinese and say that the way they speak is "Wrong" and no teachers are getting frustrated with young people because they don't come to school speaking SE or acting like learning AAVE so they can teach SE is some kind of awful indignity.
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== Welcome to the Months of African Cinema! ==
::Nobody assumes that person speaking Chinese or even speaking English with a heavy Chinese accent is "dumb" we just think "oh they don't know english yet."


{{Ivmbox|]
::But if a kid say "These normal curves ain't got no base in science, yo!" suddenly most teachers are thinking "oh my, this kid's stupid" That isn't clear the way it's written now. I'm just starting to look at all the info in AAVE. Maybe you are more familiar with some sources to use?
]


Greetings!
::Also, some researches say that writing a test in AAVE hasn't helped to reduce the gap, so that means AAVE isn't a cause of the gap. I'd love to look at those tests. I really doubt these people could write in AAVE even if they tried. ] 18:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


] welcomes you to October, the ] that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora.
::Oh and thanks for the help. It matters where there are a few editors there working. It helps show that the article is being watched. As soon as I try to take a break the BS starts creeping in. Quotes are copped to change their meaning and some of the changes are plain dishonest. Like saying that "Flynn supports Jensen's rejection of Factor X" when Jensen was talking about factor X for differences between races and Flynn was talking about factor X for differences between generations! I think the idea is that one can get away with this kind of thing if the material is technical. Most people can't be bothered to notice these kinds of errors. There are probably many others. The more I look at it the more I see that so much of this article is justa big house of cards. ] 18:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


This is a global online edit-a-thon, which is happening in at least 5 language editions of Misplaced Pages, including the English Misplaced Pages! Join us in this exciting venture, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to ], if you haven't done so already.
:"The more I look at it the more I see that so much of this article is justa big house of cards."


On English Misplaced Pages, we would be recognizing Users who are able to achieve the following:
:Sorry. I'm still snowed under with deadlines, so I haven't been much help. But, hey, welcome to Misplaced Pages. The truth is often a casualty here. ] 20:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


*'''''Overall winner''''' (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
== "fanonite" ==
*'''''Country Winners'''''
*'''''Diversity winner'''''
*'''''High quality contributors'''''
*'''''Gender-gap fillers'''''
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For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page ]. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--] (]) 22:50, 03 October 2018 (UTC)}}
I barely glazed over the Israel-South Africa relations you sent me before, but I just happened to go back to his blog later while researching the Palestinian Israeli conflict. The "fanonite" is not a black nationalist (as I presumed by the link), but rather an ] apologist. Note, I am not criticizing him for being anti-Israel, or pro-palestinian. I'm criticizing him for being an Islamist. Considering the havoc that Islamism has already reaked on Africa, you might as well have linked me to a guy who supported the Arab slave trade.--] 00:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
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== AfroCine: Join the Months of African Cinema this October! ==
So, you object to the source? Just google the info. There are multiple links from multiple sources that will provide essentially the same information. You doubt the extent to which neo-fascist elements of the Zionist movement collaborated to shore up racist Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa? You also might try googling the ADL spy case, where it spied on a variety of perfectly legitimate, leftist organizations, etc. -- like anti-apartheid groups in the U.S. and the ANC -- and turned the information over to not only the U.S. government, but to the apartheid South African government as well.


{{Ivmbox|]
Time for a reality check. That is, of course, if you're ready to read the whole truth instead of just the warm-and-fuzzy side of the role of Jews in the struggle for African independence. ] 20:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
:I love reality checks. Please just supply me with a good link that expresses your view. I've already read the Jewish side of the issue and I've read the mainstream side of the issue. I'd like to hear the black or African side too, if you could link me to a reliable source.--] 20:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


Greetings!
The www is available to you, just as it is to me. ] 22:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


After a successful ], we are happy to announce that it will be happening again this year, starting from October 1! In the 2018 edition of the contest, about 600 Misplaced Pages articles were created in at least 8 languages. There were also contributions to Wikidata and Wikimedia commons, which brought the total number of wikimedia pages created during the contest to over 1,000.
:As a sidenote, my class in school is currently doing a huge project based on your ] article in relation to Mark Twain's ''Adventures of Huckleberry Finn''.--] 21:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


] welcomes you to October, the ] that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora. Join us in this global edit-a-thon, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to ].
How are they relating the blackface to ''Huck Finn''? ] 23:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
:The question is if Jim is a character with depth or merely a one-sided (racist) caricature, and also the influence of minstrel shows on Twain's portrayal of him. There's also this PBS video we watched on the controversy and bannings of the book.--] 00:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


On English Misplaced Pages, we would be recognizing participants in the following manner:
Sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than when my high school class read the book. As usual, I was the only black person in the room, and I wasn't exactly jazzed about it. Back then, in the Dark Ages, there was no black literature in the curriculum -- just the usual -- ''Johnny Tremaine'', Faulkner's pervasive racism, John Steinbeck's gratuitous racism, etc. I complained about how we had to read about Nigger Jim, then asked defiantly where were the stories about "Honky Huck." (The teacher wasn't amused -- but, then, neither was I.) ] 05:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


*'''''Overall winner''''' (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
== cornrows and bo derek ==
*'''''Diversity winner'''''
*'''''Gender-gap fillers'''''


For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page ]. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--] (]) 00:50, 30 September 2019 (UTC)}}
Hey, I just deleted that Bo Derek picture from ], and made a ] Looking at the edit history, it seems that you've deleted the picture several times yourself. I'd appreciate a comment lending your support, if you feel comfortable giving it. Cheers!] 21:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
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== goat ==
== ] ==


]
hey, this might amaze you, but I've worked out complete consensus with an Afrocentrist on this page. take a look and tell me what you think, --] 04:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
your caveat really echoed my feelings. I really do wish wikipedia can improve, but its criticisms are hard to deny. the vision of a functioning wikipedia can only be concieved by a optimist - a delusional optimist.


] (]) 09:33, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
==Orphaned fair use image (Image:African_Ceremonies_bookcover.jpg)==
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== Interview ==
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "]" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described on ]. Thank you. &mdash; ''']''' <sup><font color="#CC5500">]</font></sup> 05:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I am a PhD student at University College London (UK), researching the collective production of knowledge. Misplaced Pages is my main case study. Would you be able/willing to talk to me about your activity on Misplaced Pages?


I have submitted my project to the Misplaced Pages research committee for guidance. You can find the full summary here:
== Kwame Ture / Carmichael & A-APRP ==
https://meta.wikimedia.org/Research:Sociotechnical_epistemology:_how_do_we_foster_good_practices_in_collective_knowledge-production%3F


There's more on my user page and you can ask me any questions. We can discuss identification, uses of data and so forth before talking as well. If you're interested, you can contact me via my Talk page, or by emailing me at elena.falco.18@ucl.ac.uk
With reference to Kwame Ture / Stokely Carmichael and the All-African People's Revolutionary Party: I tried to look into it, but I suspect that you may do a better job of sorting it out. There seem to be a lot of gray-zone sites (Geocities and the like), and I'm not sure what is real & reliable. - ] | ] 03:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


Thanks! ] (]) 15:28, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
By the way, Dave Garrow, who is cited in that article, lived directly over me one year in college (he had the dullest musical tastes of any young person I ever knew), and undoubtedly first heard Carmichael speak in person on exactly the same occasion I did, when Carmichael visited Wesleyan, I think in '73. - ] | ] 04:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:41, 30 April 2024

This user may have left Misplaced Pages. Deeceevoice has not edited Misplaced Pages since January 3, 2016. As a result, any requests made here may not receive a response. If you are seeking assistance, you may need to approach someone else.

User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 1 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 2 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 3 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 4 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 5 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 6 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 7 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 8

Carnegie Commission on the Poor White Problem in South Africa

I just made this article. I think it's really interesting how there seem to be links between Apartheid and the racism in the united states, this isn't from the 19th century it's from the 30s and these ideas were taken seriously for decades after. The more research I do, the more I find that contemporary manifestations of racism in the US are a direct reaction to Brown Vs. Board of Ed. -- At WP:AFRO some people are talking about looking in to the question of our schools which remain segregated to this day. Perhaps you'll want to help. Hope the holidays are being good to you! (And I'm sorry about the whole mess with Dbachmann. I'm shocked at all of the people who have some issue with him, the evidence page has grown absurdly long.) futurebird (talk) 14:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Our exchange at Talk:Afrocentrism

I was somewhat dismayed at our exchange of words at the Afrocentrism discussion page. I did not feel that your responses to my concerns where directed at solving these concerns nor explain to me why I shouldn't be concerned, but rather at making me refrain from asking questions and keeping away from the article. I found your tone hostile and condescending, and I felt that you were halfway expecting me to be a troll, or a white supremacist out to get you. I don't know if this is how you usually respond to people in disagreement with you or if I just caught you at a bad time, but I imagine that the wikipedia experience must be quarrelsome for someone who meets other editors with such an attitude. I hope that further exhchanges of information and/or opinion between us can be conducted in a more positive spirit - I commit to contributing my part.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 15:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not terribly interested in exchanges of opinion; I thought I made that clear. However, exchanges of useful information are always welcome. The "hostility" and "condescension" you write of weren't intentional, but I suppose that's one way one could interpret my comments. I'm simply weary of those who seemingly and often admittedly know very little about something proffering their opinions and then proceeding to POV-push and edit-war their mis/disinformation into articles on that same subject matter.
I glanced -- and I mean that, glanced -- at something you wrote about Van Sertima, and I found your characterization of the criticism of his work far too general, absolute and somewhat lacking in documentation. Van Sertima long ago admitted some errors in his interpretation of historical data. Such things are normal in the practice of history in attempting to patch together some semblance of meaning/coherence from artifacts and data related to the prehistory of humankind, and findings and postulations often are revised after the fact by those who originally avdanced them or by those who come after them. Still, Van Sertima's work was far from devoid of documentation, as at least your first edit (I skimmed no further) states.
All that aside, an in-depth discussion of Van Sertima's work is best placed elsewhere -- perhaps in an article devoted to the "Pre-Columbian African presence in the New World." In fact, I would venture to say that much of the article loses its way in treating Afrocentricity only in the practice of history and little else, when such certainly is not the entirety of its scope. Your addition, IMO, merely contributes to this unfortunate trend.
Finally, if your intent is to contribute objectively and positively to a balanced article, then we'll have no problem, and your contributions are more than welcome. Peace. deeceevoice (talk) 17:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I've learned from you :-)

You once said to me that (paraphrasing) editors like me needed to take a stand against racism and other injustices on Misplaced Pages. For your viewing delight....

Nazi userboxes and other fun stuff

I just had to drop you a line expressing my amazement at your response on that userbox thread at AN. Not only is it against policy (it is just as if not more offensive than the pro-pedophilia userboxes that people get banned for, and helps discredit the project), but to equate a pro Nazi userbox with a userbox supporting a candidate for president, and worrying that deleting it would give people the impression that we discriminate against Nazis (for God's sake), is absolutely illogical and the sort of thinking that allows Nazi apologists, Holocaust deniers and other racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic nut cases to proliferate like mushrooms on the net and in real life. Stand up against intolerance! Let people know that Misplaced Pages is not a place to spread hate. Remember what Santayana said... Jeffpw (talk) 20:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I must draw the line here and leave things clear, in that thread I only said that I wanted a second opinion as I was hesitant to remove by myself, though I did say that its removal had my support, never did I say that having this in userspace has my support, let's leave something clear, I would never support a Nazi cause, and during my stay here I have avocated against racist point of views, have supported Jimbo's banning of a (ironically enough) anti-Jewish pro-Nazi supporter and offered my support in a proposal suggesting that a policy against racism motivated edits be established, enough said. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, I had no hesitation, and I had policy and precedent on my side. That user is on the short road to a block. Nobody said you supported Nazism...you just dithered instead of standing up to it. I guarantee you, nobody is going to criticize you for stamping out hate on this website. Jeffpw (talk) 21:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Interesting. And well done! :) deeceevoice (talk) 17:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Moreschi

I don't think Moreschi enacted the ban he only presented flimsy evidence for it. Right? Check your block log. Nonetheless, Moreschi lead the charge on that one presenting evidence that didn't make any sense after Dbachmann asked him to come in and "clean up". That's why I didn't make the request, but at this point with Moreschi presenting so much evidence, and in light of the weird and rude exchange on the talk page at Afrocentrism I think you're right --he needs to be involved. futurebird (talk) 05:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

deeceevoice (talk) 06:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, I forgot about all of that. That's as good as enacting the ban himself. futurebird (talk) 06:30, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
What the heck are you talking about? deeceevoice (talk) 06:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


Look at your block log:

  • 23:47, November 15, 2007 Viridae (Talk | contribs) blocked "Deeceevoice (Talk | contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 1 year

The block was not enacted by Moreschi, it was enacted by Viridae, I'm assuming on good faith, based on the fact that (if you didn't bother to look at the diffs) Moreschi's evicence and your last armcom case made it seem neccesary. It was all a smoke screen, but still, this is going to come up so we should just preempt it. The stuff on your talk page works fine. futurebird (talk) 15:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Please read what I wrote, fb. Moreschi banned me from/locked me out of editing Afrocentrism. You're stuck on the failed year-long block from Misplaced Pages. Dab started the ball rolling, kicked it to Moreschi, who then cleared the way for Viridae. Interestingly Moreschi's failed bid for the Arb Com provides us with plenty of info for his inclusion in the Arb Com case against Dab. deeceevoice (talk) 18:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

OH! Now I think I get it. There were two bans, one from editing Afrocentrism then they upped it to a year-long ban on everything... and Moreschi did the ban on Afrocentrism then posted the "evidence" to get the year-long ban. Okay, I've put up my evidence on the evidence page (let me know if you see any errors.) I don't quite know what you're getting at about the failed arbcom bid. I voted "no" as a result of all of this nonsense. --but that was one other reason I didn't want to add Moreschi to the case at the time-- it would have seemed like I was trying to ruin Moreschi's bid. But now that that is all over I think it's OK to proceed without making the case seem like some kind of unfair "political" move. futurebird (talk) 19:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Perzackly. My point about Moreschi's failed Arb Com bid is that the numerous dissenters (of whom there appeared to be an inordinate number), those who opposed his election to that body, provided rationales that could be useful in building a case against Moreschi at the Arb Com case. Certainly, I would guess his precipitous action in my case, his POV pushing at Afrocentrism and his Bachmann-esque abuse of, and disrespect for, other editors at Afrocentrism likely have been repeated numerous times elsewhere around the site. deeceevoice (talk) 21:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps, but I'm a little concerned that there are too many people involved in this already. I simply don't have the time to read all of the evidence so I can't weigh in on some of the statements. How are so many people even finding out about this case? I've never seen half of these editors before... At any rate, I think I've just been accused of being a "meatpuppet" for having this conversation. I don't really understand that either-- futurebird (talk) 15:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but it's necessary -- unfortunately. I've got to actually find some time away from deadlines (hopefully later this week) to knuckle down and write a statement. I really haven't yet -- but at least things have started to settle down a bit after the holidays. It's been just a crazy time. I honestly don't know how people find out about these things, but considering that Dbachmann seems fairly well known around the site (I had no clue he was even an admin at first), I suppose it's not surprising. Also, both Dab and Moreschi seem to have been on an "anti-nationalism" crusade for some time, so I suppose that's also a potential point of interest for some.
Yeah. I visited the Workshop page and saw the post. Curious. It reads like someone's attempt at keeping you in line and away from the Dark Side ( pun intended ;) ), but I can't imagine they would seriously think anything could be gained by such a post. You're too independent to be intimidated and far too bright to need cautioning. This place is just stupid sometimes (often?), and I long ago learned not to try to get inside other people's minds. It's exhausting and a real waste of time. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Peace. deeceevoice (talk) 16:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

YO

I have been shocked by the (now frozen) statements and comments on your userpage. I never would have expected them from you. Peace, YO. HeyYallYo (talk) 17:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a clue what you're referring to, but, hey, life is full of surprises. ;) deeceevoice (talk) 17:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Over several years of seeing your comments, I had concluded that you would never say Negro or "negroid." HeyYallYo (talk) 03:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It's all about context. deeceevoice (talk) 03:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Dbachmann

This arbitration case has now closed and the decision may be found at the link above. Dbachmann is reminded to avoid using his administrative tools in editorial disputes in which he is personally involved, and to avoid misusing the administrative rollback tool for content reversions. Afrocentrism and Race of ancient Egyptians are placed on article probation. For the arbitration committee, David Mestel 20:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Irony of ironies

It seems Dbachmann is currently writing a treatise on the abuses of the ArbCom on his user page and, of course, claiming that the evidence against him regarding his misuse of rollback, etc., were fabrications. I frankly disagree. However, to the extent that some of the lengthy diffs presented as proof of his egregious misconduct were off the mark, it strikes me that this is the same admin who incited another admin to ban me from editing an article without cause, leveling trumped-up and wholly ridiculous charges, whose ban in turn then prompted another admin to ban me from a year from Misplaced Pages. (Both bans subsequently were overturned for lack of evidence.)

Assuming he truly believes he has been unjustly accused, perhaps Dbachmann will think twice in the future before he levels groundless charges at other editors now that he's experienced -- in his eyes, at least -- the same treatment. He's the one who left us no recourse other than to go to the Arb Comb. Seems to me he's been hoisted on his own petard. Kind of ironic -- doncha think? I got one word: karma. deeceevoice (talk) 23:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello, deeceevoice. I didn't find any evidence that dbachmann incited user:Moreschi to ban you from a page (this diff is the limit of his conversation with Moreschi at the time, an editor he's familiar with from working at Misplaced Pages:Fringe theories/Noticeboard. You are neither mentioned nor alluded to in that post, and there is no talk of bans and blocks.). Nor did I see dbachmann support or even comment on the subsequent (and bad) 1 year block performed by user:Viridae. Stating his opinion and asking for help doesn't make dbachmann responsible for other administrators' actions and chain reactions. In these cases, Moreschi and Viridae would have been the ones to be held accountable. Personally, I think this whole arbcom case was much ado about nothing, and, to me, it looked like dbachmann was supposed to become the fall guy for heavy-handed adminiship, and also for another type of user: There are users lacking all sense and notion of social history who keep trying to whitewash articles such as Jazz, Blackface, and others, but dbachmann is not one of these users. I really hope everyone's karma allows for some forgive and forget as well. Among other, this arbcom case was driven by ancient grudges that had nothing to do with anything really. There, I feel so much better now. ;-) Belated Happy New Year, and take care. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you still waiting for the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus to visit you, too? ;) Still, if believing what you believe and saying so makes you feel better, then I'm glad you feel better. If you read Bachmann's comments, he clearly expects others to be held to a higher standard than that which he sets for himself. Furthermore there are other ways to "whitewash articles," and it's clear that Bachmann engages in POV pushing around the site. I see it at Afrocentrism and elsewhere. There's no forgiving and forgetting this guy; he refuses to admit he even did anything remotely off the wall. If you ask me, Bachmann didn't get nearly what he deserves, but I suppose he got as good as could be expected. deeceevoice (talk) 11:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, yeah. Belated Happy New Year to you, too -- and same back atcha. :) deeceevoice (talk) 11:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your comments, and best of luck with 2008. priyanath talk 17:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for dropping that comment. I love braiding! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yessenia0606 (talkcontribs) 21:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Alert: User:Wikidudeman up for admin; voting ends today

FYI, the info and voting are here.

Do whatever you feel moved to do. I know I have. deeceevoice (talk) 16:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

You're Invited!

Hello! I thought you may be interested in joining WikiProject Tamil civilization. We work on creating, expanding and making general changes to Tamil related articles. If you would be interested in joining feel free to visit the Participants Page! Thank You.

Wiki Raja (talk) 08:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Smile

Hello Deeceevoice, Alun (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

A citation request

In the blackface article, there is a request for the citation about the price paide in the eBay auction of the Ronson lighter. Since you uploaded the image, I imagine that you are the most likely to be able to provide a citation. (If you can't, we can just modify the caption so that it doesn't make a specific assertion about price, and just describe it as an example of negrobilia.) - Jmabel | Talk 05:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

African American culture GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed African American culture and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left this message on your talk page since you have significantly edited the article (based on using this article history tool). Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix with the assistance of multiple editors. I have also left messages on the talk pages for other editors and related WikiProjects to spread the workload around some. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 07:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey there - Balance tag at Caucasian Race

Hi there... Just to say that you may wish to elaborate on the subject, as I can't quite figure out why you put the tag there; and if I can't figure it out, probably others won't either. But I know you always have good reasons. :) However, if I'm writing this as you're writing a reason... well just ignore this. Have a good one!--Ramdrake (talk) 00:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Done. deeceevoice (talk) 00:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Survey request

Hi,
I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Misplaced Pages. You are being contacted, because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles.

Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, geraldckane. Survey questions can be found at geraldckane/medsurvey. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected!

The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions.

Thank You, BCeagle0312 (talk) 03:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Blues

The Blues article is currently being reviewed. It requires quite a lot of work but we could save its status. Please help. Thanks. Vb (talk) 09:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Blues at WP:FAR

You are one of the leading editors of Blue, which has been listed at WP:FAR. Please follow the discussiona at Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Blues and consider helping out.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Memin pinguin comic.jpg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 06:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

AN/I

There is a discussion at AN/I which relates to you, indirectly. You might want to take a look at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#User:Blackpower, which mentions you in passing. I'd like to know what your thoughts are on the issue. Horologium (talk) 13:25, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Wishing you the very best for the season. Guettarda (talk) 00:05, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello

I just want to say that I think you are awesome. I'm African-American myself and I admire your work and tenacity. I just want to let you know you got a friend and ally in me. Pandyu (talk) 19:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Mudsling

Please do not make personal attacks. Misplaced Pages has a strict policy against personal attacks. Attack pages and images are not tolerated by Misplaced Pages and are speedily deleted. Users who continue to create or repost such pages and images in violation of our biographies of living persons policy will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Thank you.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Allanlw 08:37, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Stereotypes of Jews

I have nominated Stereotypes of Jews, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of Jews (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. seresin ( ¡? )  23:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

An article you created maybe deleted soon: Tools which can help you

The article you created, Stereotypes_of_Jews maybe deleted from Misplaced Pages.

There is an ongoing debate about whether your article should be deleted here:

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If your page is deleted, you still have many options available. Good luck! travb (talk) 00:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It definitely is a stub, and it probably will be deleted. Please help me find sources to support its existence:
User:RWV/Del#Notability.2C_Verifiability.2C_No_original_research travb (talk) 00:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Move/redirect the article to Antisemitism

Would you agree to move/redirect the article to Antisemitism? If so, email the nominator of the article, and he can speedy close the AfD.travb (talk) 01:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

No. The subject matter is broad enough and deep enough to merit a separate article. Just as there is a separate article on Stereotypes of African Americans. deeceevoice (talk) 01:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Keep it up and I will advocate that the article is deleted. You are alienating everybody in an attempt to prove a point. Watch out for 3RR (3 reverts to an article), you are going to get banned soon. You may win a small battle, but you are going to lose the war, guaranteed. travb (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

You can advocate deletion if you want. But let me warn you that tampering with another editor's comments on the discussion page is not permitted. There is nothing contrary to Wiki policy about me writing down a list of items to be considered in the writing of an article. And "collapsing" that list so that readers do not see it is not cool. 3RR applies to editing in article main space. Why? Because "editing" of contributors' talk page comments is not permitted. Kindly lay off. And please don't threaten me. deeceevoice (talk) 02:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:AN/I

I've taken this to an administrator's noticeboard. While I didn't mention you be name anyone looking at the page history will be able to see that this is dealing with you, so I thought I'd let you know anyway. The thread can be found here: Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Talk:Stereotypes_of_Jews. --AniMate 02:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Stereotypes of Jews

I have nominated Stereotypes of Jews, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of Jews (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Sceptre 04:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Regarding reversions made on January 3 2009 to Talk:Stereotypes of Jews

You have been blocked from editing for a short time in accordance with Misplaced Pages's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule. Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. The duration of the block is 24 hours. William M. Connolley (talk) 22:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've read the 3RR rule, and my understanding is that it appears to apply to article main spaces: "The rule applies per-page. If an editor performs, for example, three reversions on each of two articles within 24 hours, that editor's six reversions do not constitute a violation of this rule, although it may well indicate that the editor is being disruptive." It has always been my understanding that no one is allowed to expunge or alter another's contributions in the article talk space -- except (possibly?) in cases where it is clearly trolling or off-point. In fact, Misplaced Pages:Etiquette makes it quite clear that: "Deleting or removing text from any Talk page without archiving it, except in your user space . Talk pages or any discussion pages are part of the historical record in Misplaced Pages. Every time the pages are cleaned up, don't forget to store the removed text in its corresponding archive (/Archive) page. (See Misplaced Pages:How to archive a talk page.)" Neither applies here. The list is of possible things to include in the article -- no different from any other list of such items in any other article talk space. It is a working tool used in framing the article and directly relevant to the task at hand. So far, I've found it exceedingly useful -- just as I've found the sources I provided on the talk page useful. People have complained that the list is uncited. There is no requirement that such working lists be cited in the article talk space (though many of the sources I've added below the list actually bear out the accuracy and usefulness of the list itself -- as well as the text I and others have added in the article main space). It would seem to me that the problem is the hypersensitivity of "editors" who refuse to allow a thorough examination of the subject matter at hand. How is it that these "editors" are repeatedly allowed to alter and remove a perfectly legitimate working tool from an article talk space, a tool that I've been using to contribute to the article -- and that I am the one being blocked -- rather than those who persist in vandalizing the talk page, many of whom have contributed not a single word to the framing of the article on the talk page or in the article main space? This block is crap. deeceevoice (talk) 22:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

3RR applies everywhere, although you are usually granted leniency on your own talk page William M. Connolley (talk) 23:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The only example given under the 3RR is of an article main space. And I've always been told it is not permitted for an editor to remove another's comments on talk pages, etc. What of that? Along with the working list, they've also removed suggestions about further article development. And the complaints about the list are groundless. deeceevoice (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've clarified the policy page to make it unambiguous; but this is how its always been interpreted. AFAIK there is no absolute prohibition on removing another editors comments William M. Connolley (talk) 13:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, that's a good start. But which policy page? You're probably referring to the 3RR. But it seems to me there needs to be some clear direction on not only what constitutes a violation of 3RR, but under what circumstances someone may, or may not, expunge talk page comments. Certainly, obliterating a legitimate entry -- as happened in my case -- simply because the content may offend some hypersensitive people should not be tolerated. You will note that many of the items on that list -- again -- have been so far verified by the sources I (or, perhaps User:Colonel Warden) have provided, or in sources/info we've provided in the article main space. And not all of them were negative. What of that? Oh, yeah. And let's not ignore the puerile taunting of User: travb/User: Inclusionist on the project discussion page of the AfD. His conduct has been pretty childish and certainly contrary to Wiki rules. Anybody doin' anything about him? Uh-huh. I thought not. deeceevoice (talk) 16:05, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Deleting talk comments may well be against netiquette but its not going to get you blocked, unlike 3RR. As for Travb, I've asked for an explanation of that comment William M. Connolley (talk) 21:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
It should. In this case, it's disruptive to the development of the article. I've reinstated the list -- with lots of documentation for most of the points. Let's see what happens. They can't claim, preposterously -- as another administrator did (below) -- that I'm just spewing anti-Jew hatred. deeceevoice (talk) 00:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Stereotypes of white people

An article that you have been involved in editing, Stereotypes of white people, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of white people. Thank you. If this is deleted, all previous edits to Stereotypes of Whites will also disappear as redirects to deleted articles are themselves deleted. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 22:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it turns out the previous version was supposed to be deleted in an AFD but wasn't, so now the whole thing got speedy-deleted. The version you created was heading for a WP:SNOW close, almost nobody liked it. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
If any of the other "stereotypes" articles remain, the article on SoW will be back. What I wrote wasn't intended to be an article, but the start of a working list of ideas for an article -- just as with the list at Stereotypes of Jews -- which, incidentally, now has the makings of a pretty decent article, if approached properly. If I were asked to judge the list as an article, I'd hate it, too. But it was a start, something to get the ball rolling -- not even a stub, really, but no different from the way a lot of articles at Misplaced Pages get started -- and nothing more. deeceevoice (talk) 08:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of African Americans

In case you are interested when your block expires, please see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of African Americans. It's really rather annoying that, rather than nominate the offending article for deletion, you feel the necessity to create a massive disruption to get your point across. --B (talk) 03:27, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Responding: Stereotypes of Jews

My block has nothing to do with Stereotypes of African Americans (duh), and I know when it expires. (I can, after all, read my own talk page.) My point was not disruption, but parity. I've had it up to here with the systemic bias of the project and the way it's open season all year long on any and everything treating Black people, but other ethnic groups are somehow off limits. I'm fed up.
Yep. As I've already stated, that's what started the SoJ and SoW articles.
I've also stated, however, that I think the article on Jewish stereotypes is an important one, treated properly. Growing up and going to school with lots of Jews, I always noticed the physical traits described under "spastic Jew," but never had a clue what that was all about -- at least not consciously. I think it's great there's an article that actually explains that -- and the stereotype that has come about as a result. And I never knew where Jerry Lewis' annoying, sometimes funny routines came from, or that the term "spazzing out" -- used virtually exclusively by Jews when I was growing up (and, possibly, still) -- had a medical/biological basis. I also hope the article will treat the stereotypes of Jews as venal, money-grubbing, money lenders and merchants and explain their foundations in history -- how Jews were prohibited from owning land and couldn't farm, so they became shopkeepers/merchants, tailors and lenders. And balancing those stereotypes with the custom commonly known as "jubilee." (What a great concept.) And it should treat all the major stereotypes/archetypes as well. It's important to focus on how they have persisted -- and how they were used, e.g., by Hitler to justify his Final Solution and enlist support, or at least tacit compliance, in that chapter of history generally referred to as The Holocaust.
It's potentially a fascinating, informative and useful article.
Just as I think the article on Stereotypes of African Americans (IMO, it should be broadened to include all Black people) is potentially an important one, if treated properly. (Right now, I think it's pretty awful.) As I protested on the article talk page some time ago, the subject must be treated in historical context in order to provide perspective/meaning. More and more, though, I wonder if such is even remotely possible in a venue such as Misplaced Pages. This place fairly stinks of not only double standards and intellectual dishonesty -- as is clearly evident in the matter of the SoJ article and talk page space -- but racism as well, as is abundantly evident in virtually any and every article here treating Black people. Just pick one.
Interesting, though, that of the stereotypes articles, only the one treating Jewish stereotypes has occasioned such an uproar -- don't you think? Interesting, too, that the only major "racial"/ethnic groups without a general article devoted to "stereotypes" are Whites and Jews? In my book, no group should get special treatment. I don't care how many people cry foul. It's flat-out censorship and caving in. It's contrary to Wiki principles, and it shouldn't be allowed. Whatever happens with SoJ, the same general rule should apply to all articles dealing with group stereotypes. All or nothing. Contextual or nothing.
IMO, people need to get over it and get on with the business of producing an authoritative, well-constructed, useful article and lose the drama. And you need to stay the hell off my talk page -- unless you have something useful/constructive to say.
And in case I still haven't gotten through to you, coming to my talk page with this garbage, wasting my time and mischaracterizing my motives here as well as here is not constructive. As an administrator -- at least that's what your user page says -- you should know better. deeceevoice (talk) 08:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

blocked

I have blocked you for one week owing to disruption at Talk:Stereotypes of Jews. You should know by now that edits like this will likely be taken as nothing more than backhanded racism. Gwen Gale (talk) 07:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week in accordance with Misplaced Pages's blocking policy for disruptive edits at Talk:Stereotypes of Jews. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Gwen Gale (talk) 07:14, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Deeceevoice (block logactive blocksglobal blockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


Request reason:

Appealing. I was adding a paragraph at the beginning of the working list that it had been amended and that I was taking the matter to the ANI (or whatever it's called -- the Administrators Notice Board) when I was blocked. This is unjustified. The complaint with the list has been that it is controversial and potentially "offensive." Well, hell, yeah. The topic is potentially "offensive." Ditto with Race and Intelligence, Race, Blackface. That doesn't mean contributing a working list of legitimate and noteworthy ideas for the article is improper. Before restoring it this time, I spent a great deal of time annotating it so that it would not be mistaken, as it was before, as a racist, intolerant screed, or with no basis in reality. And not all the stereotypes listed are negative. Let's face it. I didn't just pull that stuff from out of thin air. I even added suggestions and cited sources for explaining the origin of some stereotypes and debunking them. Certainly, in the context of framing the article, my contributions in the article talk space are a hell of a lot more on-point and certainly less gratuitously offensive (in fact, in terms of "gratuitously," not at all) than the Jewish jokes bandied about at the AfD and the discussion that sprang from that. The source materials identify the items on the list as legitimate and verifiable stereotypes and also address them in a scholarly, informative fashion. The list began as a stream-of-conscious listing of the Jewish stereotypes I've heard/read about and has been useful to me in starting to frame article. I've referred to it -- as well as the earlier listing of sources I contributed farther up the page -- repeatedly. The added sources should make the list more useful to me and as well to others wishing to contribute to a quality entry. Hell, I shouldn't even have to be writing this explanation -- let alone defending myself from a -- what (checking) -- uh ... week-long block. Particularly when my exchange with William Connelly, the administrator who blocked me before for unintentionally violating a 3RR (because the rule was unclear), told me that removing material from a talk page -- as with the repeated removal of list -- was a "breach of netiquette." I spent a great deal of time annotating the items on the list and providing sources for those interested in working on the article itself -- instead of just griping about it. I even removed some of the possibly more contentious items or reworked them/incorporated them with other items and deleted others until I could find documentation for them. If working on an article in such a manner is "disruptive," then it is not I who should bear the onus of blame for that; it is the hypersensitivity and unreasonableness of those who claim to have been offended. And if they are offended, my regrets. It has not been my intention -- but perhaps they should simply avert their attention and go elsewhere to contribute constructively to the project, as I am doing at SoJ. I do that kind of thing all the time. You won't find me editing at Race and Intelligence. Why? Because it's a topic that I feel is a waste of time, and I'm certain to get p*ssed off. Misplaced Pages simply isn't worth it. I avoid toxicity and stay centered. If this subject is toxic or upsetting to people, then let them move on, give the article a chance to develop (what a concept!) and leave others to do the real work. The people complaining about the working list clearly don't seem to be interested in actually constructively working on the article anyway (check the edit record) and are a hindrance in that regard. The repeated removal of the list, as well as this second block, is absurd and unwarranted. And it's censorship -- flat-out. Incidentally, I don't get why my entry here looks the way it does. The text of my appeal ends here. deeceevoice (talk) 07:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Having read over the incident that led to your block and a sizable amount of the history that surrounded it, I'm going to decline to unblock you at this time. You continued adding the list after it had been removed and despite objections to it. I can see no other reason to do so other than just for the sake of being disruptive and inflammatory under the guise of WP:NOTCENSORED. Even with this in mind, I might have been moved to assume good faith and discuss a shortening of the block were this the first incident. But being that your block log is so long that I can't fit it all on my monitor, I think that a week block is not unreasonable or unnecessary. I concur with Gwen Gale's decision to block. — Trusilver 08:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Please reread my block notice. If you don't know what I mean by "backhanded racism," please ask. Gwen Gale (talk) 09:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm not an idiot. I can read and understand English. Presumably, then, the list of scholars/sources substantiating the stereotypes detailed therein -- many of them Jewish, judging from the surnames -- are engaging in "backhanded racism" as well -- including the rabbi. Yeah, right. Maybe you need to learn what actually constitutes racism before leveling such an utterly baseless charge. deeceevoice (talk) 09:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Do you understand that the list, along with edit warring over it, was disruptive to many editors? Gwen Gale (talk) 09:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
1. I didn't feel that the editors were justified in removing a legitimate talk page entry. Editing warring, as I understood it, was restricted to article main spaces. I was always told that it was improper to edit the talk page contributions of another editor.
2. "I spent a great deal of time annotating the items on the list and providing sources for those interested in working on the article itself -- instead of just griping about it. I even removed some of the possibly more contentious items or reworked them/incorporated them with other items and deleted others until I could find documentation for them. If working on an article in such a manner is 'disruptive,' then it is not I who should bear the onus of blame for that; it is the hypersensitivity and unreasonableness of those who claim to have been offended. And if they are offended, my regrets. It has not been my intention -- but perhaps they should simply avert their attention and go elsewhere to contribute constructively to the project, as I am doing at SoJ. I do that kind of thing all the time. You won't find me editing at Race and Intelligence. Why? Because it's a topic that I feel is a waste of time, and I'm certain to get p*ssed off. Misplaced Pages simply isn't worth it. I avoid toxicity and stay centered. If this subject is toxic or upsetting to people, then let them move on, give the article a chance to develop (what a concept!) and leave others to do the real work. The people complaining about the working list clearly don't seem to be interested in actually constructively working on the article anyway (check the edit record) and are a hindrance in that regard. The repeated removal of the list, as well as this second block, is absurd and unwarranted. And it's censorship -- flat-out." deeceevoice (talk) 10:07, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Ok but do you understand that how you dealt with this has been disruptive, whether you think editors should have felt that way about it or not? Gwen Gale (talk) 10:14, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I acknowledged the editors' stated concerns and addressed them. I assumed too much. I assumed that providing an adequately sourced, revised list and suggesting countervailing information/sources would address their grievances/perceptions about the listing being merely a racist/anti-Semitic screed, and I expected that reason and the interests of the project would prevail over unreasoning, knee-jerk revulsion and baseless personal attacks/hostility. As an African-American editor here at Misplaced Pages, I deal with articles like Nigger and Blackface that confront racist stereotypes all the time, and I do it in a reasoned, dispassionate manner. I'm expected to. It is, in fact, demanded of me by others. All the time. And I am expected to hold my tongue and not scream "racism" without some pretty damned solid evidence. Hell, I've been blocked in the past for calling someone a racist when I've done nothing of the sort! Black editors are expected to walk on eggshells, all the while being assaulted by all manner of stupid, racist crap. And if we complain too loudly, we're threatened.
It's unfortunate that forbearance -- not even in situations such as this, when the issue involves addressing an unpleasant topic forthrightly, assuming good faith and with some modicum of intellectual curiosity/rigor -- seems to be neither the conduct, nor the expectation when other ethnic groups are involved, when the shoe is on the other foot. It's unfortunate that Jews seem to be off-limits when it comes to such matters; the image and mission of the project suffers. This kid-gloves, coddling approach runs counter to the interests of the project. Are we here to produce an encyclopedia, or aren't we? All along, ever since I came to the project, the message has been "no censorship." Well, that's certainly not my experience in this regard. This entire matter is another glaring example of the project's intellectual dishonesty in the face of ubiquitous, strangling systemic bias. There's a stinking double standard at work here. And it's utterly indefensible -- and reprehensible. deeceevoice (talk) 10:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


Sourcing was never the worry or at least, it wasn't at all the only worry. Gwen Gale (talk) 10:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

It was the only legitimate concern. I'm not here to coddle people's hurt feelings. deeceevoice (talk) 10:43, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I take your answer to mean you don't care if other editors found you behaviour disruptive. If this is so, it is much less likely that you'll be unblocked before the week is up, if ever. Gwen Gale (talk) 10:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
"I spent a great deal of time annotating the items on the list and providing sources for those interested in working on the article itself -- instead of just griping about it. I even removed some of the possibly more contentious items or reworked them/incorporated them with other items and deleted others until I could find documentation for them. If working on an article in such a manner is 'disruptive,' then it is not I who should bear the onus of blame for that; it is the hypersensitivity and unreasonableness of those who claim to have been offended. And if they are offended, my regrets...."
"I acknowledged the editors' stated concerns and addressed them. I assumed too much. I assumed that providing an adequately sourced, revised list and suggesting countervailing information/sources would address their grievances/perceptions about the listing being merely a racist/anti-Semitic screed, and I expected that reason and the interests of the project would prevail over unreasoning, knee-jerk revulsion and baseless personal attacks/hostility. As an African-American editor here at Misplaced Pages, I deal with articles like Nigger and Blackface that confront racist stereotypes all the time, and I do it in a reasoned, dispassionate manner. I'm expected to. It is, in fact, demanded of me by others. All the time. And I am expected to hold my tongue and not scream "racism" without some pretty damned solid evidence. Hell, I've been blocked in the past for calling someone a racist when I've done nothing of the sort! Black editors are expected to walk on eggshells, all the while being assaulted by all manner of stupid, racist crap. And if we complain too loudly, we're threatened.
"It's unfortunate that forbearance -- not even in situations such as this, when the issue involves addressing an unpleasant topic forthrightly, assuming good faith and with some modicum of intellectual curiosity/rigor -- seems to be neither the conduct, nor the expectation when other ethnic groups are involved, when the shoe is on the other foot. It's unfortunate that Jews seem to be off-limits when it comes to such matters; the image and mission of the project suffers. This kid-gloves, coddling approach runs counter to the interests of the project. Are we here to produce an encyclopedia, or aren't we? All along, ever since I came to the project, the message has been "no censorship." Well, that's certainly not my experience in this regard. This entire matter is another glaring example of the project's intellectual dishonesty in the face of ubiquitous, strangling systemic bias. There's a stinking double standard at work here. And it's utterly indefensible -- and reprehensible."
Obviously, you're reading selectively. If, after putting in a great deal of time and effort to work to address people's stated, legitimate understandable concerns, it comes down to a choice between pandering to someone's sensitivities or continuing to engage in competent, good-faith efforts to improve the project, I'll choose the latter. Every time. deeceevoice (talk) 11:02, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Many editors didn't see how edit warring over a naked list of slurs would help the project. Rather, they found it highly disruptive and that's why I blocked you. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm not going to insult your intelligence, so I'm going to assume you're being intentionally obtuse, or, better, perhaps you're being inattentive. The list was certainly not a "naked list of slurs." You may wish to revisit my responses again and, if you haven't bothered to view the revised list -- you clearly have not; otherwise you could not credibly characterize it as such -- perhaps you should. deeceevoice (talk) 11:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

This is your edit. It looks like a list of slurs to me. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Gale Gwen, it's a list of stereotypes -- positive and negative. That is, after all the stated subject of the article. And it's not a "naked list." It is -- for the umpty-ump time -- well sourced and cited and includes suggested materials to debunk certain stereotypes as well. What about that doesn't compute? You're either not reading what I've written, or simply being obtuse. It does no good for me to repeat myself. You just won't acknowledge the facts. The only alternative is that you're just flat-out stupid, and I refuse to believe that to be the case. You've obviously made your decision and intend to stand by it, no matter what -- and I've got deadlines. deeceevoice (talk) 11:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like one editor's encyclopedic project is a bunch of other editors' list of slurs. Edit warring over it got you blocked and now you're tottering on the brink of either a 1 year block or an indefinite ban. If you haven't groked by now that your behaviour here has been stirring up too many worries and taking too much time from volunteer editors, then the outcome is beginning to look foregone. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the validity of the list or otherwise isn't the issue at all, any more than it would be if it was on an article page. The issue is your edit warring / disruption over it William M. Connolley (talk) 14:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I have no comment on the charge of edit warring or disruption: I haven't looked into it. Edit warring and disruption can indeed merit blocks.
As for the charge of listing slurs, I've looked at the edit to which Gwen has linked twice above, and while a lot of its ingredients are indeed offensive, I don't find the posting as a whole offensive. (For one thing, I note that Deecee highlights the debunking of these slurs.) More specifically, when Deecee writes above The list was certainly not a "naked list of slurs", I agree with her. (Again, my agreement does not excuse any edit warring.)
I also find talk during a one-week block of either a 1 year block or an indefinite ban unfortunate.
I'll now bow out of this (and go to bed). -- Hoary (talk) 15:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I won't address the edit warring issue, but the attempt to escalate this to a fullscale ban is pretty over the top. How can one discuss an article about stereotypes without providing the stereotypes? And removing DCV's list from the talk page was inappropriate, as it was clearly not meant as insult but as illustration; of course some of the stereotypes are hurtful -- but they are still extant and, if such an article is going to exist, they can be discussed as stereotypes. I don't for a moment believe DCV thinks that Jews are money-grubbing, evil scheming effeminate Christ-killers. There might indeed be some pointy behavior here, but let's keep the various issues separate from each other. --jpgordon 17:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Please comment at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#The_list_returns. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

{{unblock|More nonsense. The block log is lengthy, yes -- and comprised of a lot of unjustified hounding by one administrator wa-aay back in the day. Let's deal with the matter at hand -- shall we? More nonsense. Your rationalization might have some merit had I simply restored the list in the form that it was previously. But the objections to the list that it was baseless, racist and uncited -- the latter not being a requirement for article talk pages. Still, I took the time to add citations/sources for a good deal of that information included in the list, leaving the most obvious additions uncited, because they are fairly common knowledge as stereotypes. Neither you nor your counterpart has offered any plausible explanation or justification for why the list should be expunged, or why the "editor" who deleted it was justified in doing so. *x* deeceevoice (talk) 09:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)}}

Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s):

After talking about this with you, seeing some other feedback from editors who haven't posted to the ANI thread (above) and giving this more thought, I believe your edits were in good faith faith and hence, while there has been some disruption and edit warring, I think those worries should be talked out further in the ANI thread.

Request handled by: Gwen Gale (talk) 18:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The list was and is offensive, but more importantly it was original research. Deeceevoice wrote an entire article on stereotypes that even she has described as "stream of consciousness" that was never meant to actually be an article. She then edit warred to make sure that her original research or "stream of consciousness" be kept on the talk page in order to form the framework for an article. The list has zero encyclopedic value, though I do think it speaks volumes about its author. I don't mean that as a personal attack, but looking through her contributions, block log, and the arbitration case, she appears to have problems with other races. The block was appropriate, and I'm disappointed that it was removed. I'm way too involved to reinstate it, but I'm fairly certain we're going to find ourselves dealing with this behavior again and again and again. AniMate 19:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you about the list, I don't think it's a helpful way to build on the topic because, indeed, the structure makes for original research looking for citations. However, I think it was written in good faith and not backhandedly. There are still meaningful disruption and edit warring worries and I'm hoping a way to deal with them can be found either in the ANI thread or elsewhere. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
A couple of things to AniMate. 1) The list clearly was/is not "original research." 2) You don't know me, and you also clearly have no clue how I regard other "races" -- your term. Even if your completely off-the-mark speculation about my motives and beliefs had merit, I don't get the relevance -- because the last time I checked, Jews weren't considered a "race."deeceevoice (talk) 12:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh! Where are my manners? Thanks, Gwen. You surprised me. :) deeceevoice (talk) 12:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

My politics are pretty thoroughly opposed to those of Deeceevoice and I think she's deleted my comments from her talk page in the past as offensive to her... but I think here that hers is the more reasonable position, despite being Jewish myself (non-religiously, though). If there is to be an article on "stereotypes of Jews" (that's the subject of an AfD debate now, and that's the place to bring it up if you don't think there should be such an article), it's reasonable to discuss on its talk page just what those stereotypes actually are, and the kind of rigorous sourcing and lack of original research that's needed in the article itself doesn't fully apply there, at least so long as you're not getting into the touchy area of potentially defamatory statements about specific living people, anyway. Her contributions in that area seem to be in good faith, and the opposition excessively thin-skinned. She also raises some valid "double standard" concerns that I've brought up myself in the WP:SAUCE essay. The punitiveness with which some people bring in blocks and bans to deal with people who say things they don't want to hear is distressing. *Dan T.* (talk) 13:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

And speaking of manners, thanks to those who've lent their support, including User: jpgordon, User:Hoary and Dan T (who, I'm sorry to say, I don't remember). JP, your characterization of me as someone who believes Jews are "money-grubbing, evil, scheming effeminate Christ-killers" was so preposterous -- even in the negative -- that I laughed and cringed at the same time. Happy new year to you and yours. :) Well, I guess, to everyone -- except, of course, those screaming for my head on a stick. (Nuts to ya! Despair, misery, disappointment and general overall suckiness, too. Lots of it. :p) deeceevoice (talk) 14:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Hullo old friend!

Deeceevoice, I left for a while Misplaced Pages because I was alone for weeks fighting with people like Moreschi, Woland... in the article about the race of the ancient Egyptians. Not being able of discussing objectively, they frightened to suppress the article or to have me baned. Big-dynamo was baned by those people. I couldn't see you around. Being also busy with the preparation of the discussion of my doctoral thesis in Missiology, I had to retreat a bit leting my adversaries spread ignorance on Black civilizations like the one of ancient Egypt, and waiting for the rescue. Now it has come. Recently, from time to time, I came to read especially your contributions. Interesting what you wrote in the Tut article. Thanks a lot! I will see what I can do for my coming back. There are new names like Wapondaponda. He is very well informed! I have not interacted with Taharqa for months now. I just don't know his whereabouts. I noticed that you have had problems with admin. Please, know how to swim in the troubled waters of Misplaced Pages in order to survive. Take care!--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 14:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

It is User talk:Big-dynamo, not Wapondaponda, who was banned for six months from editing the article on the race of the ancient Egyptians and the article related to that theme. I felt from wanings I received, that I was near to fall in the same trap! That's why I desapeared. I profited from that absence to work more on my thesis. The coming of Wapondaponda, as far as I can understand his points of view, is a big news. I am happy with him. He knows a lot of things about the race of the ancient Egyptians and he wants a balanced article. For now, the introduction of the article favor only the Eurocentric view presented by Hawass! And also it is faulse that from the today standard, ancient Egyptians are neither Blacks nor Whites. On the contrary, even if they were mixed, they would have been called Blacks, just like Obama. Besides, from today's standard, people of dark color skin are easily labelled Blacks, that is the case with Indians living in Europe. Hotep, bro! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talkcontribs) 18:21, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi all - following too much suppression of debate at various Egyptology sites I have created Arguments/Evidence for a "Black Ancient Egypt"? - I hope it will survive past the weekend. Your input would be great. Thanks Wdford (talk) 13:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

A Request

Hello, deeceevoice. Could you do me a favor? Could you get rid of that bogus list at the Black Indians article? It seems you-know-who added it again, even though it's absolutely ridiculous. Urabahn (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Arguments/Evidence for a "Black Ancient Egypt"?

HELP!! The article Arguments/Evidence for a "Black Ancient Egypt"? is about to get squashed, just like all the other attempts to air these issues. We need your vote – please take part in the debate!! Wdford (talk) 23:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Deeceevoice, we are expecting your arguments and your vote for or against the existence of the new-old article resurrected by Wdford!--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 13:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I am suprised by the deletion. Very sad indeed! It was a nice and balanced piece.--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 09:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Oops, already a thread here. Deeceevoice, about a million years ago wikipedia time you and I had one or two unpleasant encounters. I wanted to give you a chance to air any concerns you might have with my continued involvement at Ancient Egyptian race controversy (AErc).

On the actual deletion, Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka I tried to be clear that that was (in part) due to practicalities of working with the article as opposed to the actual material in the article. I've already restored some of that material to the talk page of AErc.

brenneman 11:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Aaron, sorry, but I don't remember you or any encounters. It's a bad habit. I just don't generally tend to key in on user names. :/ But anyone who wants to contribute constructively to the development of quality, NPOV articles should be welcome to participate in the writing of any article anywhere on Misplaced Pages, and the current piece under discussion is no exception. Welcome aboard. Regards, :) deeceevoice (talk) 12:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

In appreciation

This is for you, Lusala, and all the folks who worked on the (now defunct) Arguments/Evidence for a "Black Ancient Egypt"?.

deeceevoice (talk) 11:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC) :(

We ain't done yet, guys. Apartheid was not overturned in a week! The fight continues - voting at AErc thusfar is 3-0 for the good guys. Courage! Wdford (talk) 17:48, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot!--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 18:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Now Lusala makes four. I've sent notes to a few of the names that snagged my eye as I scrolled up the talk page, looking for contributors, in order to get their comments on the suggested language -- including to Paul Barlow and Brennaman Aaron Brenneman (I think that's his name. I'm terrible with names! The admin who's taking the handoff from the guy who locked down the article.) We need a general consensus to move this forward, and that means from the contrarian people as well. So, we'll see what sticks.  :) deeceevoice (talk) 18:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

General sanctions ban

Deeceevoice, under provisions of Misplaced Pages:General sanctions#Imposed by the Committee, Articles relating to pseudoscience, broadly interpreted, you are banned for three months from all pages (article and talk) related to the race of ancient people/peoples. This includes, but is not limited to, Ancient Egyptian race controversy. You can appeal this to the arbcom. Tom Harrison 19:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

What happened to Deeceevoice? Up to now, things looked peaceful!--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 20:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The short answer is nothing, Luka. Absolutely nothing. ;) Check Wapondaponda's talk page. I have to attend to a deadline. Also check Harrison's talk page. I've only given in the most cursory of glances. I just don't have the time or the patience right now to actually read it, but it looks like the ban may stick. It may be technically enforceable, but those of us involved in the article know it's totally unjustified.

Frankly, if someone wanted to go after Zara and have her banned for her part in shutting down the article, disruptive editing, they'd have a pretty good case. Certainly, a far better case than could be made for any POV pushing on my part. But that's another matter.

If the ban isn't enforceable, I'll be back at the article. If it is, then I'll still be around. You can always e-mail me, and visit my talk page space. We can discuss the article and how to attack it. I just won't be able to edit there. Gotta go.

Peace! deeceevoice (talk) 21:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Ugh. *looks around* I too am currently unable to locate a reason for this. On the technicality: Currently and unfortunately there is ambiguity on if the ban will "stick." Arbitration Committee has said that warnings are specifically not administrator action w.r.t. bans of this type, and that adminstrators need to heed reasonable intput from their peers. They've also made it very clear that reverting any actual admin button pushing will lead straight to a spanking by Jimbo. What they have not made clear is what happens if:

  • Admin A warns User 1,
  • Admin B says 'not required to warn User 1, they are fine'
  • Admin A blocks User 1.

Thank you for the patience and good will demonstrated in the above post. brenneman 23:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Following the discussion

This discussion continues on Harrison's talk page, which I don't have time at the moment to follow. If you want to know what's going on with this, I can't help you. It's confusing. So, lotsa luck. But thanks, people, for your expressions of interest, concern and indignation. deeceevoice (talk) 13:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't think I can tell you anything you would find persuasive or useful. Tom Harrison 19:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello Tom, I don't understand too why you have placed a ban on Deeceevoice. I haven't seen anything said that is innappropriate. Wapondaponda (talk) 19:27, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I disagree, Tom. I think what you might have to say could be very useful. It's a simple request. I mean if you're going to content-ban someone for -- what -- however many months, the least you can do is point me to the relevant governing language. Again, it's a simple -- and civil -- request. Just show me the relevant language, so I can determine if your ban is warranted/justifiable -- in which case I won't waste the ArbCom's time. Thanks -- again. :) deeceevoice (talk) 19:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Because you repeatedly and seriously failed to adhere to the purpose of the project, and its expected standards of behavior. You've been persistently and disruptively uncivil, routinely attacked anyone who disagrees with you, and are trying to slant Ancient Egyptian race controversy toward a fringe viewpoint. I guess that would be uncivil pov pushing. Tom Harrison 20:00, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
If you won't explain, I'll request the demand be removed; Tom, you are obliged to explain or recant. --jpgordon 19:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
You and I know I've done nothing of the sort. Your explanation appears little more than a throwaway excuse. In fact, I've spent the last couple of days trying to build some sort of consensus on the rewriting of the lead paragraph in wholly value-neutral language that, from the looks of it, is likely to succeed -- and nothing more. If you have evidence of POV pushing -- rather difficult, seeing as how the article has been locked down over the past few days -- where is it? deeceevoice (talk) 20:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Based on what I've read so far, I agree with Jpgordon - either Tom should give a better explanation or undo the ban. PhilKnight (talk) 00:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Elonka tells me I didn't follow the correct steps to impose a topic ban. I will not be enforcing the topic ban, or having anything more to do with the page(s). Tom Harrison 16:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to all of those who became constructively involved in this matter. Since Harrison won't apologize, I will. I'm sorry that one admin's precipitous and ill-conceived decisions/actions wasted the time and consumed the efforts of so many.
Harrison, thanks for the notification that the ban is no longer in effect and that you intend to have nothing more to do with the article. I'd be lying if I said you'll be missed. deeceevoice (talk) 18:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Moving forward

You can be nice. I've seen you do it. But your 22:13, 6 February 2009 post drips venom. It's not polite to say "so-called sources." Please try to stay on-topic and be cordial. - brenneman 02:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

"Venom"? Wow. That bad, huh? I'll have to go back and check it (but later, please). I guess my fatigue (I've been up going on now, oh, 28 hours, still working on a deadline) and my flat-out impatience/fed-upness (yeah, I made it up) with Zara are showing. But I'm knocking off for the night. I'm (literally) falling asleep at my computer. Just thought I'd check WP once more before crashing for about four hours and then getting back at it. Yeah, I can tone it down, but I just don't think I can type one more word tonight. You should go to bed, too.

Goodnight. deeceevoice (talk) 05:05, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, deeceevoice, I am greatly impressed with what you have to add, but had a small piece of advice. Let us remember the aphorism "Who the cap fit" - if there's problematic behavior, just try to describe the "cap" without naming any names, and then see if anyone puts the cap on and decides it fits them! It's also slightly more diplomatic than mounting a direct attack! Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 14:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Egypt

I didn't mean to school you in NPOV. What I meant was, if you have a properly sourced significant view, you could save yourself the trouble of endless discussion on the talk page and just add the view to the article. And I meant that people who knew policy would back you up. Now, this is ust my personal opinion, but when I see any artile where the number of edits to the talk page are of an order of magnitude higher than edits to the article, there is something wrong - and in my experience at least half the time th solution to the problem is not more talk, but actually just adding the points one would make on the talk page to the article itself. That's all. Slrubenstein | Talk 22:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Easy for you to say. The last time I tried that, I got slapped with a three-month content ban. Like I said, all I was doing was answering your question. ;) deeceevoice (talk) 22:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, next time you have a specific text you want added, let me know and if we both think I can be of help, I will do my best. Slrubenstein | Talk 03:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I appreciate the offer. :) deeceevoice (talk) 04:57, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Deeceevoice, thanks for your hard work and, above all, for your vigilance!--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 23:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Please, have a look to Ancient Egyptian race controversy. The article has been radically changed by User:Dbachmann and friends--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 12:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
You can't be surprised. ;) I'm really busy at the moment -- and I see that the page has been locked down -- again -- anyway. And I'm also pretty damned bored with this website. You don't honestly think this virulently racist/backward website can ever be a venue for any intelligent discussion of such matters regarding Black people -- do you? I may return and take a look at the talk page and weigh in when I have a moment -- and, of course, I'll always take time to respond to specific issues that need addressing. Peace to you, my dear brother. Stay up. deeceevoice (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

What happened?

Deeceevoice, where are you? Where have you been? I hope you didn't leave. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Klonk (talkcontribs) 19:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

It's good to see you back. I thought you died. Klonk (talk) 14:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I have a question I think you can answer. We know Africans and Europeans had conflicts in the beginning of the slave trade. Did some Africans help the Europeans capture slaves or was it strictly a European thing? Klonk (talk) 17:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It's been pretty well established for some time now that indigenous Africans conducted raids into villages, took captives and sold them to slavers. It's doubtful they had any idea what was in store for their hapless victims, but the fact is -- yes -- black folks were complicit in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Why is that so difficult for so many black folks to own up to/accept? White folks don't have a corner on cruelty or greed. deeceevoice (talk) 17:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I was just asking a question. Klonk (talk) 17:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand. It's just one that has been answered fairly definitively -- and for quite some time. Peace. deeceevoice (talk) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, nice to see this page pop up on my watch list. How are you doing? Good to see you around. Guettarda (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not staying long -- or doing much while I'm here. But I'm well, thanks. :) I trust you and yours are, too? deeceevoice (talk) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, here's my last question. Was Ancient Egypt really a black empire? Or was it non-black? Klonk (talk) 17:33, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Its origins were Black and African. And Egypt remains primarily black. Some people just can't/won't get it into their noggins that Black people built a high civilization while they were still living like barbarians. deeceevoice (talk) 23:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

African admixture

There is a debate on the article Sub-Saharan DNA admixture in Europe regarding the presence of haplogroup E3b in Europe. Some editors are arguing that E3b does not constitute "African admixture" even though it is known to have originated in East Africa. Seeing that you are interested in African history, if you have any free time, your comments would be appreciated. In the government (talk) 01:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Request for clarification

Please, go to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification.--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 14:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy

FYI: I am not sure that anyone has actually been banned. I checked the block record for several peope who had "banned" messages on their talk pages, and in fact I saw no record of their being blocked, and i saw that several have made edits recently. Sock-puppets will be banned, and there is nothing I can do about that. But there are others who seem to be good-faith editors who have done nothing to justify a block. if I am wrong and someone actually has been blocked, please let me know. Slrubenstein | Talk 16:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know that ArbCom has formed a new council to devise new forms of Misplaced Pages governance(Misplaced Pages:Advisory Council on Project Development)? I thought you might be interested in looking over who has been made a member of this council. They were not selected through any kind of transparent process. I have strong doubts about at least one of them, based on this comment, which I believe would be of interest to you. You and I know Misplaced Pages has problems that need to be addressed. Is a council with this member going to address them? Slrubenstein | Talk 10:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

No, I didn't. Thanks for the heads-up. I've checked it out and registered my comments in the appropriate space. As far as Jenna what's-her-face (who commented here, then expunged her remarks), IMO, anyone who doesn't see so-called "white pride" as a reactionary, racist, white supremacist phenomenon likely either: 1) is a racist him/herself and being disingenuous, 2) doesn't have a clue what racism is, 3) is intolerably, unforgivably naive, 4) in denial, or 5) bent on methamphetamine and/or home brew. And, no. I have serious doubts whether such a person belongs on any kind of advisory panel for Misplaced Pages. deeceevoice (talk) 18:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

this provides more context and discussion of the issue at hand... if we are going to have a real conversation about race at Misplaced Pages, this might be the place to have it (or to use it as a spring board into a discussion of how the policy council should investigate raceialized conflicts). Slrubenstein | Talk 19:47, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Courtesy note

This is a courtesy note to inform you that the set of five recent Ancient Egyptian race controversy topic bans by Ice Cold Beer (talk · contribs) has been raised at arbitration enforcement for review: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Ancient Egyptian race controversy ban review. I am informing you because you are an involved party or commented at the arbitration clarification request. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to leave me a talk page message. --Vassyana (talk) 01:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Minstrel show

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found a large number of concerns with the referencing which you can see at Talk:Minstrel show/GA1. I have de-listed the article. This decision may be challenged at WP:GAR. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:12, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

A bold proposal

In an attempt to turn a divisive RfC into something productive I have created a new page. I hope you will come and do what you can to help make it work: Misplaced Pages: Areas for Reform Slrubenstein | Talk 00:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think Misplaced Pages has "diversity" issues. One of the areas for reform on this project page is, how to recruit and retain editors and I wish some of the discussion addressed how welcoming a place this is for people whose life experiences and ways of expression do not match that of the original 30 something white male computer programmer demographic that so long dominated Misplaced Pages. If you know people who have given this matter thought please encourage them to go to the project page and participate.

As for commenting on the topic ban - I think it is reasonable to give ICB this week to finish providing statements. At that point I think it is reasonable to protest to ArbCom that an appeal cannot be endlessly delayed because someone needs more time to put together the evidence for a ban that should have been provided when the ban was first issued. But as soon as ICB provides the evidence (which I think he has in this case) I think it is a good idea to go over it and give a response.

Frankly, I think that ICB is right that some people did commit blockable errors. Now, whether these merit a six month topic ban, or whether the blocks were issued in a partisan way, gets to questions of structural inequality at Misplaced Pages which is precisely why I created a project page to discuss reform. Another editor in fact started a thread on bans. That is the place to address systemicproblems at Misplaced Pages and devise policy remedies.

More practically, I think it is reasonable for banned users to request mentoring and a kind of "parole" to work specifically on whatever got them banned.

My philosophy is pretty simple: there is a politics here, and the policies are described in such a way that they can be interpreted so loosely that it is practically inevitable that some people will be blocked because someone basically finds them irritating. My solution to this situation is to figure out what kinds of policies you can get screwed on, and then be absolutely devoted to making sure you never ever violate those policies. I view Misplaced Pages in many ways as a game. There are certain rules that are not written down and if you figure out what they are and play by them, you can win (i.e. help create an article that is of the quality to which you believe articles should aspire) but if you do not play by them you will lose. It is unfortunate that some editors play Misplaced Pages like a game but they do and it is not too hard to learn to beat them at their own game but you have to be willing to look at things that way. Just my personal opinion. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Oreo Fun Barbie.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Oreo Fun Barbie.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Misplaced Pages constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Black Kite 01:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

  • No problem - I fixed the fair use rationale - it was uploaded as a free image but any photo of a copyrighted toy is a derivative work and therefore non-free - it's a common mistake as people think their photos are their own copyright. Black Kite 22:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Jefferson GAR notification

Thomas Jefferson has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:42, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

KEEP UP THE FIGHT DEECEEVOICE

Keep up the fight against the bully's and corrupters of the process, admirer of greatness. Keep perservering.Africabalance (talk) 20:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Marimba Ani

Deeceevoice, I hope you heard about Dr Marimba Ani, an African American Anthropologist, well known for her contributions in the Afrocentric School. I have created an article on her, but in less than twelve hours, somebody came to delete it. I need your help to resume this article which was just in creation. Actually it is really astonishing that there isn't an article on such an important figure in Misplaced Pages. If you have time, please listen to Dr Marimba Ani Marimba Ani - European Quest for World Dominance--Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 07:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Deeceevoice, hello to you! Jayen466 has created an article on Dr Marimba Ani. Your help will be highly appreciated.Lusala lu ne Nkuka Luka (talk) 15:13, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Hang in there, I couldn't do it anymore

Well, it finally wore me out and I quit contributing. I'm glad to see you are still at it. I gave up when somebody basically threw away all my work on blues ballad and replaced it with ignorant crap "from a book" the way the new Misplaced Pages likes it. The old article is stashed away on the talk page, but I just don't like being angry all the time, so I have shifted back to my other hobbies. Good luck to you and I hope you have more patience than I did (you certainly seem to have it). Best regards, Ortolan88 (talk) 18:25, 5 December 2009 (UTC) (Tom Parmenter)

Thanks

I never thanked for your condolence note last year, but I appreciate it more than I can possibly express. All the best, in friendship. Guettarda (talk) 16:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Been a while since I've seen you - hope all is well with you. Guettarda (talk) 16:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of African American culture

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article following its listing at Misplaced Pages:Good articles/Cleanup listing#Articles with 4 cleanup categories assigned. You are being notified as you have made a number of contributions to the article. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:African American culture/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 13:06, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Picaninny Freeze.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Picaninny Freeze.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Misplaced Pages's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — ξ 18:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Blues#Name discussion (2)

A discussion is taking place on the most appropriate and helpful name for the article on the musical form the blues. It is currently named Blues. It was moved to The blues, then moved back to blues. A current suggestion is blues music. Wider consensus is welcomed. SilkTork * 13:01, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm confused

What's up with all of these black folks wanting to claim Native American heritage? It's like they think there's something wrong with being black. The overwhelming majority of black people in the U.S. have no trace of Indian heritage at all. A few do, but most don't. All of that lightness is from white European men having their way with black African women. It could be a romanticization of our past, which is wrong because it attempts to rewrite our history since some Indian tribes had black slaves and treated them like shit, but I think it's mostly self-hatred. They must think anything black or African is ugly or evil while anything not black or African is cute or good. And why do they think indigenous Africans are all jet black with flat broad noses and kinky afros? Some are like that, but others are brown-skinned with medium-sized noses and curly hair. They're not "multiracial," it's just that Africans have the most diverse DNA on the planet, which proves the black man is the original man and the black woman is the original woman. Also, they seem to think a light-skinned black man or woman is not black even if that person identifies as black. What? If you notice, this mostly exists among some ignorant and confused black Americans. It's all self-hating, "I-want-to-be-anything-but-black" nonsense. I'd like to know what you think. B-Machine (talk) 15:22, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

You should come back

Hi, I think you should come back here. You don't know me and I don't know you but I have been following your edits first by accident and I like the way you defend your corner. I think you edit with integrity which is what Wiki really needs . Certain people want to curtail certain articles especially when it is about people's race or religion no matter how well sourced. It has been done to me several times where people gang on you to discredit your article or block you or nominate your articles for deletion etc. I have had it all. It has been done to me several times and I almost gave up said "let them have their Wiki". What keeps me here is my people. I am lucky enough to acquire some knowledge and I intend to share that knowledge whenever I'm free to do so and no editor will silence me here. Certain people wants to see you gone and silence, no more articles about your people or if there are, to be molded to their liking. Giving up to these people is the worst thing you could do. Come back and share your knowledge. Tamsier (talk) 18:33, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Seconded. :) --JN466 02:04, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Black family subsistence fishing.jpg

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File source problem with File:Slave Auction Ad.jpg

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Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

World Digital Library Misplaced Pages Partnership - We need you!
Hi! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Misplaced Pages using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Misplaced Pages and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 19:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Revisiting Blackface in Thailand

Interview with Kaewmala: On doughnuts, blackface and Thai racism (Archived by WebCite® at http://www.webcitation.org/6JOjPtS82)


If you have time for this, I'd like to discuss race in terms of this definition:

"strong current of water," late 14c., perhaps a particular use of race (n.1), or from or influenced by Old French raz, which had a similar meaning, and which probably is from Breton raz "a strait, narrow channel;" this French source also may have given race its meaning of "channel of a stream" (especially an artificial one to a mill), which is recorded in English from 1560s. Source — the other OED race (n.3)

If you're willing, then I'll dig up what purports to be a graph of world history encompassing the entire Holocene that does a good job of illustrating races in that context, which far better fits the concept of race as experienced in this part of the world: Whatever floats your boat. —Pawyilee (talk) 05:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Histomap (1931): Onion, Rebecca. "The Entire History of the World—Really, All of It—Distilled Into a Single Gorgeous Chart". The Vault. Slate (magazine) Pawyilee (talk) 12:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC). Archived from the original on 2013-09-05. Retrieved 5 September 2013. {{cite web}}: line feed character in |publisher= at position 21 (help)

Image copyright problem with File:Majolica owl jug.jpg

Image Copyright problem

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That's some dumba** bullsh*t. But I've stopped giving a damn. *x* deeceevoice (talk) 12:48, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Tut mystery solved

They sequenced his DNA

He was European after all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richmondian (talkcontribs) 03:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Total bull. *X* Keep your silly lies off this page. http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf deeceevoice (talk) 16:35, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Contests

User:Dr. Blofeld has created Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Africa/Contests. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 01:15, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Please claim your upload(s): File:Flow blue Alcock plate.jpg

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This will assist those reviewing the many many "free" images on commons that have not yet been transferred to Commons. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:53, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Deeceevoice. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. Mdann52 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Deeceevoice. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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Attention: WikiProject African diaspora participants

Hello fellow project participants. Not sure how many users are still active as normal Misplaced Pages editors but felt the need to attempt to get a gauge on who can be called on for help with articles falling under the umbrella of the African diaspora project. According to the project's article table there are over six thousand articles related to the African diaspora; there's not a hundred at FA/GA grade and there's over twelve hundred that are unassessed. With Misplaced Pages being one of the major information reference points in the world today we should consider this unacceptable. Much work needs to be done on the rating of the importance of articles as well. With more communication amongst participants and a dedication to addressing the articles on the to-do list I believe we can make this WikiProject one of the most well organized and thorough on the site. If you are interested in collaborative work with some of your fellow project members, have certain expertise on any particular subjects, ideals on/about the WikiProject, etc. simply drop your name under the "Project revision" section I've created on the project's talk page and state your intentions and main points of interest in our WikiProject and we can attempt to move forward from there. Hoping to hear from everyone soon! WikiGuy86 (talk) 03:07, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

AfroCine: Join us for the Months of African Cinema in October!

Greetings!

You are receiving this message because your username or portal was listed as a participant of a WikiProject that is related to Africa, the Carribean, Cinema or theatre.

This is to introduce you to a new Wikiproject called AfroCine. This new project is dedicated to improving the Misplaced Pages coverage of the history, works, people, places, events, etc, that are associated with the cinema, theatre and arts of Africa, African countries, the carribbean, and the diaspora. If you would love to be part of this or you're already contributing in this area, kindly list your name as a participant on the project page here.

Furthermore, In the months of October and November, the WikiProject is organizing a global on-wiki contest and edit-a-thon tagged: The Months of African Cinema. If you would love to join us for this exciting event, also list your username as a participant for this event here. In preparation for the contest, please do suggest relevant articles that need to be created or expanded in different countries, during this event!

If you have any questions, complaints, suggestions, etc., please reach out to me personally on my talkpage! Cheers!--Jamie Tubers (talk) 20:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Months of African Cinema!

Greetings!

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which has been dedicated to improving contents that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora.

This is a global online edit-a-thon, which is happening in at least 5 language editions of Misplaced Pages, including the English Misplaced Pages! Join us in this exciting venture, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section, if you haven't done so already.

On English Misplaced Pages, we would be recognizing Users who are able to achieve the following:

  • Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
  • Country Winners
  • Diversity winner
  • High quality contributors
  • Gender-gap fillers
  • Page improvers
  • Wikidata Translators

For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 22:50, 03 October 2018 (UTC)

AfroCine: Join the Months of African Cinema this October!

Greetings!

After a successful first iteration of the “Months of African Cinema” last year, we are happy to announce that it will be happening again this year, starting from October 1! In the 2018 edition of the contest, about 600 Misplaced Pages articles were created in at least 8 languages. There were also contributions to Wikidata and Wikimedia commons, which brought the total number of wikimedia pages created during the contest to over 1,000.

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which have been dedicated to creating and improving content that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora. Join us in this global edit-a-thon, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section.

On English Misplaced Pages, we would be recognizing participants in the following manner:

  • Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
  • Diversity winner
  • Gender-gap fillers

For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 00:50, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

goat

your caveat really echoed my feelings. I really do wish wikipedia can improve, but its criticisms are hard to deny. the vision of a functioning wikipedia can only be concieved by a optimist - a delusional optimist.

VN28 (talk) 09:33, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Interview

Hi, I am a PhD student at University College London (UK), researching the collective production of knowledge. Misplaced Pages is my main case study. Would you be able/willing to talk to me about your activity on Misplaced Pages?

I have submitted my project to the Misplaced Pages research committee for guidance. You can find the full summary here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/Research:Sociotechnical_epistemology:_how_do_we_foster_good_practices_in_collective_knowledge-production%3F

There's more on my user page and you can ask me any questions. We can discuss identification, uses of data and so forth before talking as well. If you're interested, you can contact me via my Talk page, or by emailing me at elena.falco.18@ucl.ac.uk

Thanks! ElenaFalco (talk) 15:28, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

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