Talk:Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam: Difference between revisions

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	{{WP ~~India~~}}		{{Talk header}}
			{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=Start\|
			{{WikiProject India\|importance=low\|tamilnadu=yes\|politics=yes\|politics-importance=mid\|tamilnadu-importance=low\|image-needed=yes\|assess-date=May 2012}}
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	==terrorist==		==terrorist==
	SATP lists it as such. SATP is a reliable source.<b>]]</b> 06:23, 9 June 2007 (UTC)		SATP lists it as such. SATP is a reliable source.<b>]]</b> 06:23, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

	==Request to Unprotect==		==Request to Unprotect==
	{{edit protected}}		{{tl\|edit protected}}
	* The article stands protected at the POV version of Baka. Can you please revert it to the last stable version of Alverstrand		* The article stands protected at the POV version of Baka. Can you please revert it to the last stable version of Alverstrand
	* Can you please add the following link and sentence: ''TMMK awarded the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for social cohesion efforts.		* Can you please add the following link and sentence: ''TMMK awarded the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for social cohesion efforts.
Line 12:		Line 16:
	::Does that mean, the article will continue to stand protected at the POV version of Bakasuprman who is a subject of a ongoing ArbCom case? I was reverting vandalism. I removed links to fundamentalist websites and copyvio images. SATP is a fundamentalist website. None of the articles published therein seem to be well-sourced. TMMK was awarded numerous times by the Governor of Tamil Nadu for their social schemes. You can google easily for supporting links. TMMK is not a political party. TMMK literally means Tamil Nadu Muslim Progress Movement. They awarded the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for social cohesion efforts. TMMK is the spokesman for minorities in Tamil Nadu. They are well-known for organising mass rallies for affirmation action. In a recent rally in Chennai, atleast 1 million Muslims participated (out of a total population of 4 million). TMMK also fought for compensation and concessions to non-Muslim victims of tsunami. There are very few organisations like TMMK that work for social unity. By tagging them as fundamentalist, Baka was pushing hysterical POV with fake tags in edit summary. He was revert warring despite being a subject of a ongoing ArbCom case.		::Does that mean, the article will continue to stand protected at the POV version of Bakasuprman who is a subject of a ongoing ArbCom case? I was reverting vandalism. I removed links to fundamentalist websites and copyvio images. SATP is a fundamentalist website. None of the articles published therein seem to be well-sourced. TMMK was awarded numerous times by the Governor of Tamil Nadu for their social schemes. You can google easily for supporting links. TMMK is not a political party. TMMK literally means Tamil Nadu Muslim Progress Movement. They awarded the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for social cohesion efforts. TMMK is the spokesman for minorities in Tamil Nadu. They are well-known for organising mass rallies for affirmation action. In a recent rally in Chennai, atleast 1 million Muslims participated (out of a total population of 4 million). TMMK also fought for compensation and concessions to non-Muslim victims of tsunami. There are very few organisations like TMMK that work for social unity. By tagging them as fundamentalist, Baka was pushing hysterical POV with fake tags in edit summary. He was revert warring despite being a subject of a ongoing ArbCom case.
	::How long will the article be protected (at his POV version) without any updates or news links? Should I wait until Bakasuprman is acquitted in the ongoing ArbCom case? ] 16:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)		::How long will the article be protected (at his POV version) without any updates or news links? Should I wait until Bakasuprman is acquitted in the ongoing ArbCom case? ] 16:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

			:::Yes, it means that it will stay at whatever version was protected until it is unprotected. The fact that there is a related arbcom case means that admins should be even more reluctant to edit it. I fully believe you that the protected version is not the "right" version, but the policy says that it should not be changed even if the protected version is a POV version. If you contact me when the arbitration is over or when there is consensus on this talk page about what changes should be made, I'll look into unprotecting the page. — Carl <small>(] · ])</small> 16:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

			::::Quoted from the
			{{cquote\|Several '''Islamist fundamentalist organisations''' in India are allegedly controlled by former SIMI cadres. Prominent among them are the Kerala-based National Democratic Front and Islamic Youth Centre (IYC), and the '''Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam (TMMK) in Tamil Nadu'''.}}. Also the TMMK .
			<b>]]</b> 23:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

			:::::However weird this sounds, the TMMK is ''moderate'' compared to other Tamil groups like al-Ummah.<b>]]</b> 23:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

			==Third opinion==
			The recent blanking and de-wikifying of the only well sourced and balanced part of the article was .<b>]]</b> 19:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

			:The criticism section I have laid out contains academic and mainstream critiques of the NDF, while the other version is merely a whitewashed advocacy loudspeaker for the organization.<b>]]</b> 23:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

			The current article reads like a press release, not an encyclopedia article.

			It's worth noting that the English version of the organization's website is incomplete, with placeholders for "about us" and "articles" that don't link anywhere; the home page thus consists only of a single editorial essay. http://www.tmmkonline.org/english/index.htm However, from that essay, the Misplaced Pages article should mention that the organization clearly advocates mass demonstration for government change: "In this background it is the duty of the Muslims to come to the streets to demand our share in the governance as well as in the resources of the country....TamilNadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam, which is the largest socio political advocacy organisation of the Muslims of TamilNadu has decided to organise a rally and demonstration in front of Parliament on March 7, 2007." As the web site does not include updates indicating the size and outcome of that rally, it would be appropriate to cite well regarded press reports of the event. ] 07:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

			:Of which Anwar does not provide, instead choosing to remove mainstream discussion of its connections to terrorism.<b>]]</b> 16:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

			==Cleanup needed==
			My few (and recent) edits to this article:
			# ''(twice - see below)''
			# ''(twice - see below)''
			# as per policy: ], ], ] ''(twice - see below)''
			# reminder - there are/were several inline links to organisation website

			User {{Userlinks\|Anwar saadat}} removed the advert tag and references section (also of ]) and re-added the display tables.

			If the user "Anwar saadat" (the ] may also apply) pattern of editing in disregard of the ] policy continues, it will need ] attention. — ] ] 07:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

			:This user (anwar) refuses to discuss and reverts constantly to soapbox for this organization.<b>]]</b> 16:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

			:As you have noticed, that page has become a platform for soapboxing and removal of mainstream sources.<b>]]</b> <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->   '' on my talk page. ] ] 22:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC) ]''</small>

			:: For a current discussion on ANI, see ]. — ] ] 13:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
			:: (Discussion archived in ].) — ] ] 19:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

			== RFC on cleanup for ] SOAPBOX ==



			:I saw the politics RFC. Is there a political dispute? Or is it just a user conduct issue? ] 18:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


			== RfC on user conduct ==

			If {{user\|Anwar saadat}} would simply stop edit warring with editors who have a more ] there would be considerably less need for article protection. I think that a ] on user Anwar saadat is needed. Do any of the others who have had problems with him have prior experience with such RfCs? — ] ] 17:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

			:I would request that another editor please initiate the process.<b>]]</b> 18:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

			:: Characteristically, he removed (in edit) the section on his talk page about the block for the way he had been editing this article. — ] ] 00:15, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
			:: And removed it a time. — ] ] 20:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

			==Criticism section==
			I have removed the references and narratiosn related to Al-Umma. It s a different political party unrelated to TMMK. SOmeone should start a new article on that. ] (]) 05:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

			==Reversion==
			I have reverted to a version before Anwar Sadaat's socks started editing the article (the use immediately above is one) - ]. --] (]) 04:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==

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			== External links modified ==

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			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071007150441/http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007/march/07/indian_muslim/american_muslims_support_muslim_welfare_rally_at_the_indian_parliament.html to http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007/march/07/indian_muslim/american_muslims_support_muslim_welfare_rally_at_the_indian_parliament.html
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141129052932/http://www.ceylontoday.lk/16-684-news-detail-fishermen-strike-enters-fourth-day.html to http://www.ceylontoday.lk/16-684-news-detail-fishermen-strike-enters-fourth-day.html
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070807174129/http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1712/17120490.htm to http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1712/17120490.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927094735/http://dwelle.de/southasia/print/1.190235.1.html to http://dwelle.de/southasia/print/1.190235.1.html
			*Added archive https://archive.is/20070206042548/http://www.tmmkonline.org/english/index.htm to http://www.tmmkonline.org/english/index.htm

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terrorist

SATP lists it as such. SATP is a reliable source.Baka man 06:23, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Request to Unprotect

The article stands protected at the POV version of Baka. Can you please revert it to the last stable version of Alverstrand here
Can you please add the following link and sentence: TMMK awarded the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for social cohesion efforts.

Anwar 12:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

As a matter of general policy we do not revert pages except in extreme circumstances. Please use the time that the page is protected to contact the other editors and try to reach a compromise. I don't think it is soon enough yet to unprotect the page, since I see no evidence here that the content has been discussed. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Does that mean, the article will continue to stand protected at the POV version of Bakasuprman who is a subject of a ongoing ArbCom case? I was reverting vandalism. I removed links to fundamentalist websites and copyvio images. SATP is a fundamentalist website. None of the articles published therein seem to be well-sourced. TMMK was awarded numerous times by the Governor of Tamil Nadu for their social schemes. You can google easily for supporting links. TMMK is not a political party. TMMK literally means Tamil Nadu Muslim Progress Movement. They awarded the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for social cohesion efforts. TMMK is the spokesman for minorities in Tamil Nadu. They are well-known for organising mass rallies for affirmation action. In a recent rally in Chennai, atleast 1 million Muslims participated (out of a total population of 4 million). TMMK also fought for compensation and concessions to non-Muslim victims of tsunami. There are very few organisations like TMMK that work for social unity. By tagging them as fundamentalist, Baka was pushing hysterical POV with fake tags in edit summary. He was revert warring despite being a subject of a ongoing ArbCom case.

How long will the article be protected (at his POV version) without any updates or news links? Should I wait until Bakasuprman is acquitted in the ongoing ArbCom case? Anwar 16:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it means that it will stay at whatever version was protected until it is unprotected. The fact that there is a related arbcom case means that admins should be even more reluctant to edit it. I fully believe you that the protected version is not the "right" version, but the policy says that it should not be changed even if the protected version is a POV version. If you contact me when the arbitration is over or when there is consensus on this talk page about what changes should be made, I'll look into unprotecting the page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Quoted from the South Asian Terrorism Portal

“

Several Islamist fundamentalist organisations in India are allegedly controlled by former SIMI cadres. Prominent among them are the Kerala-based National Democratic Front and Islamic Youth Centre (IYC), and the Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam (TMMK) in Tamil Nadu.

”

. Also the TMMK was being monitored after the mumbai blasts.

Baka man 23:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

However weird this sounds, the TMMK is moderate compared to other Tamil groups like al-UmmahRediff.Baka man 23:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion

The recent blanking and de-wikifying of the only well sourced and balanced part of the article was reverted.Baka man 19:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The criticism section I have laid out contains academic and mainstream critiques of the NDF, while the other version is merely a whitewashed advocacy loudspeaker for the organization.Baka man 23:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The current article reads like a press release, not an encyclopedia article.

It's worth noting that the English version of the organization's website is incomplete, with placeholders for "about us" and "articles" that don't link anywhere; the home page thus consists only of a single editorial essay. http://www.tmmkonline.org/english/index.htm However, from that essay, the Misplaced Pages article should mention that the organization clearly advocates mass demonstration for government change: "In this background it is the duty of the Muslims to come to the streets to demand our share in the governance as well as in the resources of the country....TamilNadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam, which is the largest socio political advocacy organisation of the Muslims of TamilNadu has decided to organise a rally and demonstration in front of Parliament on March 7, 2007." As the web site does not include updates indicating the size and outcome of that rally, it would be appropriate to cite well regarded press reports of the event. VisitorTalk 07:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Of which Anwar does not provide, instead choosing to remove mainstream discussion of its connections to terrorism.Baka man 16:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

My few (and recent) edits to this article:

added advert tag (twice - see below)
added references section with reflist display markup (twice - see below)
removed display tables of organisation officers as per policy: Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox, not a mirror, not a webspace provider (twice - see below)
added primarysources reminder - there are/were several inline links to organisation website

User Anwar saadat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) removed the advert tag and references section (also removed citations of WP:RS) and re-added the display tables.

If the user "Anwar saadat" (the Misplaced Pages:Username policy may also apply) pattern of editing in disregard of the npov policy continues, it will need admin attention. — Athaenara ✉ 07:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

This user (anwar) refuses to discuss and reverts constantly to soapbox for this organization.Baka man 16:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

As you have noticed, that page has become a platform for soapboxing and removal of mainstream sources.Baka man —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bakasuprman (talk • contribs) 17:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

For a current discussion on ANI, see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User Anwar saadat and TMMK article. — Athaenara ✉ 13:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

(Discussion archived in Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive302#User Anwar saadat and TMMK article.) — Athaenara ✉ 19:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

RFC on cleanup for WP:NOT SOAPBOX

I saw the politics RFC. Is there a political dispute? Or is it just a user conduct issue? Eiler7 18:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

RfC on user conduct

If Anwar saadat (talk · contribs) would simply stop edit warring with editors who have a more neutral point of view there would be considerably less need for article protection. I think that a Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct on user Anwar saadat is needed. Do any of the others who have had problems with him have prior experience with such RfCs? — Athaenara ✉ 17:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I would request that another editor please initiate the process.Baka man 18:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Characteristically, he removed (in this edit) the section on his talk page about the block for the way he had been editing this article. — Athaenara ✉ 00:15, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

And removed it a second time. — Athaenara ✉ 20:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Criticism section

I have removed the references and narratiosn related to Al-Umma. It s a different political party unrelated to TMMK. SOmeone should start a new article on that. Prakashbabu77 (talk) 05:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Reversion

I have reverted to a version before Anwar Sadaat's socks started editing the article (the use immediately above is one) - Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Shinas/Archive. --Sodabottle (talk) 04:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

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