Talk:Erna long-range reconnaissance group: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 12:42, 21 August 2007 editRJ CG (talk \| contribs)1,417 edits →Soviet historigraphy ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 19:09, 29 January 2024 edit undoQwerfjkl (bot) (talk \| contribs)Bots, Mass message senders4,012,114 edits Implementing WP:PIQA (Task 26)Tag: Talk banner shell conversion
(10 intermediate revisions by 8 users not shown)
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{WikiProject ~~Estonia~~\| class=~~Start~~\|~~importance=Mid\|comments=}}~~		{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=C\|
			{{WikiProject Estonia\|importance=Mid}}
			{{WikiProject Military history\|class=C\|B-Class-1=no\|B-Class-2=yes\|B-Class-3=yes\|B-Class-4=yes\|B-Class-5=yes\|Nordic-task-force=yes\|WWII-task-force=yes}}
			}}

	== Soviet historigraphy ==		== Soviet historigraphy ==
Line 10:		Line 13:
	:::Mart Laar is a professional historian with many published works. Unless you can point to a published reliable source that critiques Laar's work, you view is just speculation and has no basis. ] 21:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)		:::Mart Laar is a professional historian with many published works. Unless you can point to a published reliable source that critiques Laar's work, you view is just speculation and has no basis. ] 21:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
	::::You completely missed my point. I did not say anything about scientific merits of Laar's work, I just said that he can't be impartial source in assessment of Russian historical school, as he propelled his career from humble postdoc to Estonian big chief on denying anything and everything Russian historians said. At this point it does not say anything about his professional merits (which are based on single peer-reviewed book and unchecked ability to write Estonian schoolbooks as he pleases), but it does say a lot about his confrontational approach toward the Russian historical school. That's why I suggested to check other's opinion about the Russian historians. ] 12:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)		::::You completely missed my point. I did not say anything about scientific merits of Laar's work, I just said that he can't be impartial source in assessment of Russian historical school, as he propelled his career from humble postdoc to Estonian big chief on denying anything and everything Russian historians said. At this point it does not say anything about his professional merits (which are based on single peer-reviewed book and unchecked ability to write Estonian schoolbooks as he pleases), but it does say a lot about his confrontational approach toward the Russian historical school. That's why I suggested to check other's opinion about the Russian historians. ] 12:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

			@The Russian Federation's original position incorrectly classifies the members 'Nazis'@ Could you clarify why Russian Federation's position is INCORRECT? I would like to delete this sentence. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:59, 6 August 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== rename? ==

			I'm not going to do it right now, because of the AN/I thread on this article, but it really needs a rename. The proper title (which matches the lede of the article) should be '''Erna long-range reconnaissance group''' ("reconnaissance", not "recce"). If there is no opposition, I'll wait until the AN/I thread is archived and perform the move. ''']''' <small>]</small> 21:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 19:09, 29 January 2024

This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Estonia Mid‑importance

Erna long-range reconnaissance group is part of WikiProject Estonia, a project to maintain and expand Estonia-related subjects on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.EstoniaWikipedia:WikiProject EstoniaTemplate:WikiProject EstoniaEstonia

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : WikiProject Estonia/Missing articles
Assess : Rate each tagged article by quality and importance to the WikiProject if it has not been done. (See Category:Unassessed Estonia articles)
Infobox : Add infoboxes to articles without it
Maintain : Portal:Estonia
Photo : Upload and/or add a photo to articles without it (See Category:Misplaced Pages requested photographs in Estonia)
Stubs : Add info to stub-articles and check for start-class.

Military history: European / Nordic / World War II

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	Nordic military history task force
	World War II task force

Soviet historigraphy

Some Erna veterans were charged and convicted of spying for Finland. If Soviet historigraphy views them as Nazi collaborators and controlled by the Abwehr, why were they not charged as being German spies? Is this an example of historical revisionism to suit current politics? I'd like a source for this assertion of Nazi collaborationism from the period. Did Soviet historigraphy also claim Finland was a nation of Nazi collaborators, because they also fought on Germany's side? Therefore does present day Russia continue to view the Finnish Army as a Nazi collaborationist organsation? Martintg 04:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It probably does view it as such. I recently read an article by Mart Laar, in which he reviews some recent products of Russian official historiography. Laar mentioned a book from 2006, which treats Finland as a tiny yet aggressive state, that managed to invaded Russia 3 times in the course of the 2oth century... Erik Jesse 11:07, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The Russian official historiography seems to view the Erna as an Abwehr organisation, but the men were convicted back in 1946 as being Finnish spies rather than German spies, which seems to contradict that view. I'd be interested to know what the 1946 sources say on the matter. Martintg 23:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

"The Russian official historiography seems to view the Erna as an Abwehr organisation" and the Estonian historians (not political propagandists) tend to agree. According to Volunteers, Conscripts and Commandeered Troops "The unit was formed to work in cooperation with Finnish and German military intelligence". Your dogged excercise in denialism had been for naught. Hopefully it will NOT teach you a lesson not to push denial theories too far. RJ CG 12:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I would be extremely reluctant to view Mart Laar as an impartial analyst. He isn't just "side in the war" - he's one who basically starting the process of revision. I don't want to comment on merits of his work, but he obviously has vested interest in portraying his opponents as a bunch of Kremlin-fed monkeys spewing out stale Commie lies. Web is chocking full of content in an English dealing with history of WWII and recent Russian interpretation of it. Why did you choose to rely on such partial source? RJ CG 15:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Mart Laar is a professional historian with many published works. Unless you can point to a published reliable source that critiques Laar's work, you view is just speculation and has no basis. Martintg 21:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

You completely missed my point. I did not say anything about scientific merits of Laar's work, I just said that he can't be impartial source in assessment of Russian historical school, as he propelled his career from humble postdoc to Estonian big chief on denying anything and everything Russian historians said. At this point it does not say anything about his professional merits (which are based on single peer-reviewed book and unchecked ability to write Estonian schoolbooks as he pleases), but it does say a lot about his confrontational approach toward the Russian historical school. That's why I suggested to check other's opinion about the Russian historians. RJ CG 12:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

@The Russian Federation's original position incorrectly classifies the members 'Nazis'@ Could you clarify why Russian Federation's position is INCORRECT? I would like to delete this sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Depesha (talk • contribs) 05:59, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

rename?

I'm not going to do it right now, because of the AN/I thread on this article, but it really needs a rename. The proper title (which matches the lede of the article) should be Erna long-range reconnaissance group ("reconnaissance", not "recce"). If there is no opposition, I'll wait until the AN/I thread is archived and perform the move. Horologium (talk) 21:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Categories: