Talk:James Tour: Difference between revisions

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			== Dave Farina ==
	==Controversial article==

			I have rewatched Dave’s videos on the topic of Tour and the DI a lot of times and I think that an in depth criticism of James’s videos should be made to make it clear via the page why people critique him ] (]) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	Why is his article on chemical terrorism considered controversial? Is it because some people said it gives away too much information to potential terrorists? The point of controversy should be mentioned in the article. Thanks. ] 17:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
			:], ]. --] (]) 09:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Most probably the title: "Better Killing Through Chemistry" either led some to believe he was advocating chemical warfare, ot that he was being insensitive. Unfortunately this statement is unsourced, so we can't find out. ] 17:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
			::Ty, im new to Misplaced Pages so i probably need some help ] (]) 12:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

			:::Don't let the gatekeepers put you off. It is obviously not OR to accurately report what a source says.
	== Micro-Evolution and Macro-Evolution ==
			:::Do note that you're largely wasting your time here, though, because this page is regularly sanitised by Tour's supporters, regardless of how well-sourced any criticism is. (Indeed, when Tour's own words are too embarrassing to his side, they also will be judged to be unsuitable quotes and removed.) They have a lot invested in keeping up the appearance of a man of science whose creationist apologetics have weight. ] (]) 21:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

			::::What seems obvious to you may be clearly false to people with a clue. This is the case here. And those who reject the insertion of Tour's claims are not "Tour's supporters". I think he is full of shit, and Misplaced Pages's rules forbid us to be his megaphone. --] (]) 08:06, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
	The article states:
			:::::While im currently not in the mental headspace to comment much on this right now, I feel like saying “Misplaced Pages’s rules prevent us from being his megaphones” is probably also what Scientologists said before they were excluded from Misplaced Pages.
	{{quotation\|Tour's field of organic chemistry is unrelated to evolutionary biology.}}
			:::::While I do feel I made the edit too editorialised due to my newness to Misplaced Pages editing, there is also a fair POV where it could have just been edited, instead of completely undone as it added important information ] (]) 08:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
	The field of organic chemistry is related to ]. Darwin's mechanism applies to ] (descent with modification of living species). The parallel field of micro-evolution applies to processes operating at the molecular level by which organic molecules change. Darwin's mechanism assumes and depends on micro-evolution, but doesn't encompass or subsume it, model it, or explain it.
			::::::{{tq\|is probably also what Scientologists said}} What bullshit. If they said it, find the quote of them saying it. And if you think I did something that justifies "excluding" me, say what it is.
			::::::Your newness is the reason why you do not recognize that '''we need reliable sources talking about Tour's nonsense.''' If we no not have those, no amount of editing will help. --] (]) 10:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
			:A youtuber is not a reliable source. Especially, since some of his content is potentially libelous. His videos made allegations of plagiarism and Rice University found the allegations to be false. Youtube clips from a biased source are not appropriate for a biography of a living person. ] (]) 23:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
			::Biased sources are not a problem. Self-published sources are. See ] and ]. Regarding ignorant nonsense like creationism, sources explicitly need to be "biased" against it. See ]. Also, ]. --] (]) 10:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
			::When there is already a section about the debate I personally feel like background it’s important, and as the only written articles are either:
			::This article
			::Evolution News (DI controlled so obviously pro Tour bias)
			::Six days (which I assume based on the name is also creationist)
			::Tours university
			::A singular Reddit thread
			::And a bunch of YouTube videos, I feel like showing the actual videos where you can for yourself see exactly how Farina and Tour each said their claims are the only things that could be roughly defined as useable for this ] (]) 10:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
			:::I felt* I mistyped ] (]) 10:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
			:::You are right that the others are not useable, but that one isn't either. See ]. --] (]) 15:08, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

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Dave Farina

I have rewatched Dave’s videos on the topic of Tour and the DI a lot of times and I think that an in depth criticism of James’s videos should be made to make it clear via the page why people critique him Mormissen (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Ty, im new to Misplaced Pages so i probably need some help Mormissen (talk) 12:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Don't let the gatekeepers put you off. It is obviously not OR to accurately report what a source says.

Do note that you're largely wasting your time here, though, because this page is regularly sanitised by Tour's supporters, regardless of how well-sourced any criticism is. (Indeed, when Tour's own words are too embarrassing to his side, they also will be judged to be unsuitable quotes and removed.) They have a lot invested in keeping up the appearance of a man of science whose creationist apologetics have weight. 2A00:23C5:CF37:4001:E416:6FD1:A898:8B9B (talk) 21:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

What seems obvious to you may be clearly false to people with a clue. This is the case here. And those who reject the insertion of Tour's claims are not "Tour's supporters". I think he is full of shit, and Misplaced Pages's rules forbid us to be his megaphone. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:06, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

While im currently not in the mental headspace to comment much on this right now, I feel like saying “Misplaced Pages’s rules prevent us from being his megaphones” is probably also what Scientologists said before they were excluded from Misplaced Pages.

While I do feel I made the edit too editorialised due to my newness to Misplaced Pages editing, there is also a fair POV where it could have just been edited, instead of completely undone as it added important information Mormissen (talk) 08:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

is probably also what Scientologists said What bullshit. If they said it, find the quote of them saying it. And if you think I did something that justifies "excluding" me, say what it is.

Your newness is the reason why you do not recognize that we need reliable sources talking about Tour's nonsense. If we no not have those, no amount of editing will help. --Hob Gadling (talk) 10:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

A youtuber is not a reliable source. Especially, since some of his content is potentially libelous. His videos made allegations of plagiarism and Rice University found the allegations to be false. Youtube clips from a biased source are not appropriate for a biography of a living person. PerseusMeredith (talk) 23:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Biased sources are not a problem. Self-published sources are. See WP:BIASED and WP:SPS. Regarding ignorant nonsense like creationism, sources explicitly need to be "biased" against it. See WP:FRINGE. Also, WP:YWAB. --Hob Gadling (talk) 10:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

When there is already a section about the debate I personally feel like background it’s important, and as the only written articles are either:

This article

Evolution News (DI controlled so obviously pro Tour bias)

Six days (which I assume based on the name is also creationist)

Tours university

A singular Reddit thread

And a bunch of YouTube videos, I feel like showing the actual videos where you can for yourself see exactly how Farina and Tour each said their claims are the only things that could be roughly defined as useable for this Mormissen (talk) 10:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I felt* I mistyped Mormissen (talk) 10:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

You are right that the others are not useable, but that one isn't either. See WP:PRIMARY. --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:08, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

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