Misplaced Pages

Talk:Saturn: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 16:58, 7 September 2007 editCkatz (talk | contribs)Administrators82,937 edits Imperial values of measurements: reply/support removal← Previous edit Latest revision as of 09:11, 17 December 2024 edit undoCmrc23 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers1,549 editsm Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024 
(996 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header}}
{{ArticleHistory
{{Article history
|action1=GAN |action1=GAN
|action1date=6 September 2006 |action1date=6 September 2006
Line 8: Line 9:
|action2=FTC |action2=FTC
|action2date=7 November 2006 |action2date=7 November 2006
|action2link=Misplaced Pages:Featured topic candidates/Solar System |action2link=Misplaced Pages:Featured topic candidates/Solar System/archive1
|action2result=promoted |action2result=promoted
|action2oldid=86242125 |action2oldid=86242125
Line 20: Line 21:
|action4=PR |action4=PR
|action4date=2007-07-26, 10:06:36 |action4date=2007-07-26, 10:06:36
|action4link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Saturn |action4link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Saturn/archive1
|action4oldid=147194217 |action4oldid=147194217


Line 28: Line 29:
|action5result=promoted |action5result=promoted
|action5oldid=148706831 |action5oldid=148706831

|action6=FTC
|action6date=16:57, 27 August 2008
|action6link=Misplaced Pages:Featured topic candidates/Planets in the Solar System/archive1
|action6result=not promoted

| action7 = FTR
| action7date = 00:27, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
| action7link = Misplaced Pages:Featured topic removal candidates/Solar System/archive1
| action7result = removed

| action8 = FTC
| action8date = 09:39, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
| action8link = Misplaced Pages:Featured and good topic candidates/Solar system/archive1
| action8result = promoted
|ftname=Solar System


|currentstatus=FA |currentstatus=FA
|maindate=December 4, 2011
|ftname=Solar System}}
|maindate2=October 12, 2017}}
{{WPSpace
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=FA|collapsed=yes|vital=yes|1=
|small=
{{WikiProject Astronomy|importance=Top|object=yes|solar_system=yes|ss-importance=Top}}
|class=FA
{{WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages}}
<!-- Related projects -->
{{WikiProject Weather|importance=Low |space-weather-task-force=yes}}
|astronomy=yes
|astro_object=yes
|astrophysics=
|solar_system=yes
|mars=
|moon=
|space_exploration=yes
<!-- Project importance ratings -->
|mars-importance=
|moon-importance=
|space_exploration-importance=Top
}} }}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
{{WP1.0|v0.5=pass|class=FA|category=Natsci|VA=yes|WPCD=yes|small=yes}}
|maxarchivesize = 190K
{{FAOL|Spanish|es:Saturno (planeta)|small=yes}}
|counter = 2
{{archive box|
|algo = old(60d)
*] - April 2004-July 2007
|archive = Talk:Saturn/Archive %(counter)d
}} }}
{{Annual readership}}
__TOC__

== I cannot describe the meaning. ==

"Simulated appearance of Saturn as seen from Earth (at opposition) during an orbit of Saturn, 2001–2029"

What is the meaning of "(at opposition)"?

Who someone adds it?

It is impossible to understand that the word opposition refers to similar to in vein with far side of moon.

Cmiiw.] (]) 15:20, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
:I've added a link to the article about opposition; I hope that helps? - ] (]) 18:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2024 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Saturn|answered=yes}}
Please change 0.2 gauss (µT) to 0.2 gauss (20 μT), as 1 gauss is 10^-4 Tesla ] (]) 08:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}} ] (]) 22:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2024 - Clarification on Saturn rings part ==

{{edit semi-protected|Saturn|answered=yes}}
Clarification on the creation of the rings. Current part of the rings discussion in this article:
"There are two main hypotheses regarding the origin of the rings. One hypothesis is that the rings are remnants of a destroyed moon of Saturn, for which a research team at MIT has proposed the name "Chrysalis"<ref name="chrysallis">{{cite journal |last1=Wisdom |first1=Jack |last2=Dbouk |first2=Rola |last3=Militzer |first3=Burkhard |last4=Hubbard |first4=William B. |last5=Nimmo |first5=Francis |last6=Downey |first6=Brynna G. |last7=French |first7=Richard G. |title=Loss of a satellite could explain Saturn’s obliquity and young rings |url=https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abn1234 |journal=Science |date=16 September 2022 |volume=377 |issue=6612 |pages=1285–1289 |doi=10.1126/science.abn1234 |access-date=22 May 2024 }}</ref>. The second hypothesis is that the rings are left over from the original nebular material from which Saturn was formed."

Suggested edit:
There is a debate on the age of the rings. One side supports that they are ancient, and were created simultaneously with Saturn from the original nebular material (around 4.6 billion years ago)<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Canup |first1=Robin M. |title=Origin of Saturn’s rings and inner moons by mass removal from a lost Titan-sized satellite |journal=Nature |date=December 2010 |volume=468 |issue=7326 |pages=943–946 |doi=10.1038/nature09661 |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09661 |access-date=22 May 2024 |language=en |issn=1476-4687}}</ref>, or shortly after the LHB (around 4.1 to 3.8 billion years ago)<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Crida |first1=A. |last2=Charnoz |first2=S. |title=Formation of Regular Satellites from Ancient Massive Rings in the Solar System |journal=Science |date=30 November 2012 |volume=338 |issue=6111 |pages=1196–1199 |doi=10.1126/science.1226477 |url=https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1226477 |access-date=22 May 2024}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal |last1=Charnoz |first1=Sébastien |last2=Morbidelli |first2=Alessandro |last3=Dones |first3=Luke |last4=Salmon |first4=Julien |title=Did Saturn's rings form during the Late Heavy Bombardment? |url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0019103508003825 |journal=Icarus |date=February 2009 |volume=199 |issue=2 |pages=413–428 |doi=10.1016/j.icarus.2008.10.019 |access-date=22 May 2024 }}</ref>. The other side supports that they are much younger, created around 100 million years ago<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Kempf |first1=Sascha |last2=Altobelli |first2=Nicolas |last3=Schmidt |first3=Jürgen |last4=Cuzzi |first4=Jeffrey N. |last5=Estrada |first5=Paul R. |last6=Srama |first6=Ralf |title=Micrometeoroid infall onto Saturn’s rings constrains their age to no more than a few hundred million years |url=https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adf8537 |journal=Science Advances |date=12 May 2023 |volume=9 |issue=19 |doi=10.1126/sciadv.adf8537 |access-date=22 May 2024 }}</ref>. An MIT research team, supporting the latter theory, proposed that the rings are remnant of a destroyed moon of Saturn, named ]<ref name="chrysallis"/>. ] (]) 11:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <small> (]) </small> 03:14, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Hyperlinks addition ==


{{Edit semi-protected|Saturn|answered=yes}}
Please add the following hyperlinks:


1) created simultaneously with Saturn from the original nebular material -> ]
== Congratulations! ==


2) LHB -> ]
Congratulations! With a couple of weeks of work, I have gotten this article promoted to Featured Status, as seen ]. <font style="font-size:100%;color:#228B22">]</font><small><sup>]•]</sup></small> 11:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


3) MIT -> ] ] (]) 13:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
== Atmospheres of giant planets ==
:] '''Not done:''' According to the page's protection level you should be able to ]. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.<!-- Template:ESp --> <span style="font-family:monospace;">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ]) 01:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024 ==
The data in the infobox relating to the atmosphere (surface temperature, pressure, atmospheric composition) are currently unreferenced and vague. For example, what depth are we talking about here anyway? appears to have good data, and, best of all, similar data are probably consistently given in the related data sheets for the other giant planets. I suggest that we should amend the current unreferenced atmospheric data for all the giant planets according to these data sheets. ] 18:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


{{edit semi-protected|Saturn|answered=yes}}
== Archive Created ==
Location: infobox, header: atmosphere.
I've taken the liberty of creating an archive of the old discusssions, as this page was getting a bit lengthy. I don't believe that there were any active discussions in the material that I archived, but if there was, please accept my apologies and feel free to revive it. Thanks! -] 21:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


On page 9 of the given source 26, Saturn's _Surface Pressure_ is estimated at over 1.000 bar (which would be over 100.000 kPa), and it's _Atmospheric Pressure_ is at 140 kPa. Therefor the following suggestion: change surface pressure from "140 kPa" to "over 100.000 kPa", and add a new parameter called "atmospheric pressure" with the value "140 kPa". Current source is ok for both parameters.
== Imperial values of measurements ==


An additional source: In Saturn from Cassini-Huygens (M.Dougherty, L. W. Esposito, and S. M. Krimigis, Eds). Springer (2009)
I recently removed imperial units from the infobox and various places in the Saturn article because this is a scientific article and imperial units are not used or recommended. ] reverted my edit and I wish to contest that.


] (]) 20:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
Having miles in the infobox is cluttering and useless. Astronomical Units (AU) are useful and provide a sense of scale as well as being used by astronomers. The mile values are so big as to provide no sense of scale apart from "big". And if someone needed an exact figure they would use the km value in any calculations. Under MOSNUM Scientific articles are recommended to be SI. I propose these values are useless and cluttering and that they be removed.
:I am now wondering what the infobox as it stands actually means, since Saturn has no definite surface. ] (]) 09:52, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
::Well, it doesn't have a definitive surface for what we can measure. But all planets need to have a core, which is a surface (liquid or semi-liquid in most cases is the assumption here aswell, but it's a surface). This is why the estimated surface pressure is over a thousand kPa by NASA definitions, which I think is fair.
::So, does it have a surface? Yes for sure.
::Where is that surface? We don't know. Therefor we can't measure the surface pressure (yet)
::] (]) 09:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
:::{{partly done}} I changed the surface pressure to the one stated in the source, but there is no parameter for surface pressure. I suggest you make an edit request on ], and then make another edit request here ] 09:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


== Angular Diameter ==
I'd be interested in others' feedback. ] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
: Deuar probably reinstated them because they are present in all other planetary articles. However I think the solution is to remove them from all pages.] 09:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:: Yes, exactly, I'm all for getting rid of them just that it looked like they were being removed from one or two random planets. Lets remove them from all the planet and dwarf planet infoboxes, however, we should also be prepared for loud protests, especially once ] is touched. ] 10:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


In the quick info box, at the end the angular size of Saturn is indicated in Arc Minutes ('), the correct way would be in Arc Seconds ("). Simply, if Saturn would be up to 20 arc minutes in angular diameter, it would be two thirds the size of the Sun. (Checked on Stellarium and on my own telescope) ] (]) 23:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm glad you agree. I've actually been working backwards from Pluto and have got to Saturn and this was the first issue. I shall keep going... ] 13:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'd support removing them... it's a personal bias, I'll admit, given that I use the metric system, but I also agree with the guideline and the idea of reducing the extra detail in the infobox. (It's too bad there isn't a Misplaced Pages "unit preference" coding option - as with dates - as that would help address the concerns of non-SI users.) --''']'''''<small><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub></small>'' 16:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 09:11, 17 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Saturn article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 2 months 
Featured articleSaturn is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Misplaced Pages community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Featured topic starSaturn is part of the Solar System series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Misplaced Pages community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 4, 2011, and on October 12, 2017.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 6, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed
November 7, 2006Featured topic candidatePromoted
April 2, 2007Good article nomineeListed
July 26, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
August 2, 2007Featured article candidatePromoted
August 27, 2008Featured topic candidateNot promoted
June 13, 2021Featured topic removal candidateDemoted
June 20, 2022Featured topic candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article
This  level-3 vital article is rated FA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
WikiProject iconAstronomy: Astronomical objects / Solar System Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Astronomy, which collaborates on articles related to Astronomy on Misplaced Pages.AstronomyWikipedia:WikiProject AstronomyTemplate:WikiProject AstronomyAstronomy
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Astronomical objects, which collaborates on articles related to astronomical objects.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by Solar System task force (assessed as Top-importance).
WikiProject iconSpoken Misplaced Pages
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that are spoken on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Spoken WikipediaWikipedia:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaTemplate:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaSpoken Misplaced Pages
WikiProject iconWeather: Space Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Weather, which collaborates on weather and related subjects on Misplaced Pages. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details. WeatherWikipedia:WikiProject WeatherTemplate:WikiProject WeatherWeather
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Space weather task force (assessed as Low-importance).

I cannot describe the meaning.

"Simulated appearance of Saturn as seen from Earth (at opposition) during an orbit of Saturn, 2001–2029"

What is the meaning of "(at opposition)"?

Who someone adds it?

It is impossible to understand that the word opposition refers to similar to in vein with far side of moon.

Cmiiw.2404:8000:1027:B639:6CFF:13AA:C44D:922A (talk) 15:20, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I've added a link to the article about opposition; I hope that helps? - Parejkoj (talk) 18:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change 0.2 gauss (µT) to 0.2 gauss (20 μT), as 1 gauss is 10^-4 Tesla The Space Stout (talk) 08:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done Hyphenation Expert (talk) 22:53, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2024 - Clarification on Saturn rings part

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Clarification on the creation of the rings. Current part of the rings discussion in this article: "There are two main hypotheses regarding the origin of the rings. One hypothesis is that the rings are remnants of a destroyed moon of Saturn, for which a research team at MIT has proposed the name "Chrysalis". The second hypothesis is that the rings are left over from the original nebular material from which Saturn was formed."

Suggested edit: There is a debate on the age of the rings. One side supports that they are ancient, and were created simultaneously with Saturn from the original nebular material (around 4.6 billion years ago), or shortly after the LHB (around 4.1 to 3.8 billion years ago). The other side supports that they are much younger, created around 100 million years ago. An MIT research team, supporting the latter theory, proposed that the rings are remnant of a destroyed moon of Saturn, named ″Chrysalis″. The Space Stout (talk) 11:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:14, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Wisdom, Jack; Dbouk, Rola; Militzer, Burkhard; Hubbard, William B.; Nimmo, Francis; Downey, Brynna G.; French, Richard G. (16 September 2022). "Loss of a satellite could explain Saturn's obliquity and young rings". Science. 377 (6612): 1285–1289. doi:10.1126/science.abn1234. Retrieved 22 May 2024.
  2. Canup, Robin M. (December 2010). "Origin of Saturn's rings and inner moons by mass removal from a lost Titan-sized satellite". Nature. 468 (7326): 943–946. doi:10.1038/nature09661. ISSN 1476-4687. Retrieved 22 May 2024.
  3. Crida, A.; Charnoz, S. (30 November 2012). "Formation of Regular Satellites from Ancient Massive Rings in the Solar System". Science. 338 (6111): 1196–1199. doi:10.1126/science.1226477. Retrieved 22 May 2024.
  4. Charnoz, Sébastien; Morbidelli, Alessandro; Dones, Luke; Salmon, Julien (February 2009). "Did Saturn's rings form during the Late Heavy Bombardment?". Icarus. 199 (2): 413–428. doi:10.1016/j.icarus.2008.10.019. Retrieved 22 May 2024.
  5. Kempf, Sascha; Altobelli, Nicolas; Schmidt, Jürgen; Cuzzi, Jeffrey N.; Estrada, Paul R.; Srama, Ralf (12 May 2023). "Micrometeoroid infall onto Saturn's rings constrains their age to no more than a few hundred million years". Science Advances. 9 (19). doi:10.1126/sciadv.adf8537. Retrieved 22 May 2024.

Hyperlinks addition

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add the following hyperlinks:

1) created simultaneously with Saturn from the original nebular material -> created simultaneously with Saturn from the original nebular material

2) LHB -> LHB

3) MIT -> MIT The Space Stout (talk) 13:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ''']''' (talkcontribs) 01:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Location: infobox, header: atmosphere.

On page 9 of the given source 26, Saturn's _Surface Pressure_ is estimated at over 1.000 bar (which would be over 100.000 kPa), and it's _Atmospheric Pressure_ is at 140 kPa. Therefor the following suggestion: change surface pressure from "140 kPa" to "over 100.000 kPa", and add a new parameter called "atmospheric pressure" with the value "140 kPa". Current source is ok for both parameters.

An additional source: In Saturn from Cassini-Huygens (M.Dougherty, L. W. Esposito, and S. M. Krimigis, Eds). Springer (2009)

Tvos01 (talk) 20:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I am now wondering what the infobox as it stands actually means, since Saturn has no definite surface. Double sharp (talk) 09:52, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
Well, it doesn't have a definitive surface for what we can measure. But all planets need to have a core, which is a surface (liquid or semi-liquid in most cases is the assumption here aswell, but it's a surface). This is why the estimated surface pressure is over a thousand kPa by NASA definitions, which I think is fair.
So, does it have a surface? Yes for sure.
Where is that surface? We don't know. Therefor we can't measure the surface pressure (yet)
Tvos01 (talk) 09:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
 Partly done I changed the surface pressure to the one stated in the source, but there is no parameter for surface pressure. I suggest you make an edit request on Template talk:Infobox planet, and then make another edit request here Cmrc23 ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 09:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Angular Diameter

In the quick info box, at the end the angular size of Saturn is indicated in Arc Minutes ('), the correct way would be in Arc Seconds ("). Simply, if Saturn would be up to 20 arc minutes in angular diameter, it would be two thirds the size of the Sun. (Checked on Stellarium and on my own telescope) Kamikxzx (talk) 23:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Categories: