Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 01:36, 22 May 2022

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Ybbor. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I like to keep all discussions in one place. If I go to your talk page, reply on your talk page. If you post here, I'll reply here.

Archives

2006 2007

Re: Editing Comments

Hi, I know that it's not supposed to be done but surely you must agree that the comment I deleted was nonsense? Or at least an attempt at satire re: "'The previous Chreamo page was the only website that gave the specifics about the Chreamo clique-everything from what bands are “hot and happening”, to what to wear, and how to act. True, it could have provided a picture or two of a very cute Chreamo kid with hazel eyes, light brown hair, black, white and red checkered Vans that are ripped on the left, and typical Chreamo garb, topped off with a stripped scarf, but other than that I found the previous page to be highly informational." I was merely attempting to keep the talk page free of information that won't help or benefit the discussion of improvements to the article. Diabolical 15:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it was either an idiot typing that, or much more probably, a good use of satire. While you or I may not entirely agree with the point of such use, it is not your place to remove the comments of others, whether because you disagree with the idea, or find the method of argument unsophisticated. They are entitled to their opinion, and entitled to express it in whatever way they wish. Misplaced Pages has no policy that prohibits the use of satire, but it does have a policy against . --Ybbor 18:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

On signatures

Thank you! I keep forgetting these markups, as I edit wikis on many different engines. I will remember the trick. Peter il Pinguino 00:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC) Also, sorry for not putting it at the bottom. I am so used to reverse chronological order that it did not even occur to me it could be different.

Coordinate removal

I removed the coordinates from the infobox for a few reasons:

1. The coordinate information was all wrong.
2. The correct coordinates were already display in the body of the article as well as the very top right, just above the infobox.
3. It made the infobox longer and was something that added to the creation time of each infobox.

If you feel that coordinates belong in the infobox message me. — oo64eva (Alex) @ 08:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, I somehow mistakenly thought that the info-box was adding the top-right co-ordinate information, I don't know how. Sorry. --Ybbor 21:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

why did you take my edit out its true thanks—Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.125.109.99 (talk • contribs)

responded to at User talk:194.125.109.99. --Ybbor 00:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

GWU

As I just said in an edit summary, I'd been awake for over a day at that point, and my brain was obviously not functioning. :) Thanks for pointing it out. --Golbez 01:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

But it gets better. You just did it again. This is downright comical. --Ybbor 01:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

oh, and just to be 100% clear, there's no need for anything more, I've already reverted it ;).--Ybbor 01:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

A plug

Hi Ybbor. Perhaps you'd like to plug this list on the survey page? :D Xiner (talk, email) 19:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

That page is restricted to sysops, I don't see what good it would do. But in any case, just because it's in my userspace doesn't mean you can't add it yourself. If you think you can find a place to make it fit, don't let me stop you. --Ybbor 19:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Hardy Boys books AfD

I have added to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Running on Empty (Hardy Boys novel) additional nominations for the other simialr articles created at the same time by the same editor. You may wish to revisit the discussion in light of this. DES 05:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank You

Thanks for fixing Infobox Comic Strip. When I continue work on Syndicate (which won't be tomorrow, I have a lot of work to do) there should be a lot less articles. --LuigiManiac 02:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Coordinates

FYI: discussion on Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard#LocateMe_bot. Andy Mabbett 01:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

personal attacks

I will treat your accusation that I attacked someone personally as a personal attack.

Please, do not attack me personally. Comment on my content only. Thank you.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.8.98 (talk • contribs)

I am sorry that you feel that way. However, your command to "keep silent" was very impolite, especially when I responded to your query to the best of my ability, and in complete accordance with Misplaced Pages policies. The fact that the next few questions were prefaced in ways that were clearly intended to reference the earlier dispute did nothing to alleviate the situation either, nor was the reference to vandalizing certain userpages, with the clear implication being mine. --YbborSurvey! 21:01, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Additionally Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks clearly states that: "Personal attacks do not include civil language used to describe an editor's actions, and when made without involving their personal character, should not be construed as personal attacks, for instance, stating 'Your statement is a personal attack...' is not itself a personal attack." The page also states: "Threats of vandalism to userpages or talk pages ." --YbborSurvey! 21:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Logo deletion

I don't mean to be rude, but why did you delete my logo I placed on the Audio Adrenaline page? It wasn't hurting anything, was it? What was the motive for deleting it? Liscobeck 01:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

As I explained in the edit summary, we only use fair use images when they are irreplaceable. While the "logo" did have some stylistic elements, it was primarily text, and could be replaced by text. Also works under Fair Use should be the subject of analysis within the article, which the logo was not. For more infromation see Misplaced Pages:Fair use. (And for the record, I didn't delete the image, I simply removed it from the page.) --YbborSurvey! 12:45, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou

Thankyou for helping me get my signature in order. I really appreciate the help. --Trumpetband 00:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about the typo. I think I fixed it now. What did you think of the analysis overall? Johntex\ 01:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, if every American made a cost-benefit analysis before making a major purpose, we'd be living in a whole different country. The math part is largely irrelevant, your last sentence was the most acute: "But it is really a psychological question about what choices people will end up making, and behavior is difficult to predict." It isn't a question of whether it's cost-effective (I don't think most people would pay $24,000 just to say they have a better car than Mr. Jones), it's a question of whether people will perceive it's cost-efficient. --YbborSurvey! 01:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

That wasn't a soapbox

Maybe you didn't see but I asked why the gay movement is so strong. You, sir, must be stupid. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.185.131.11 (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

For other users interested, the diff is here, and another user removed the same question when it was reposted here.

I stand by my removal. "Surely polygamy is more "acceptable" than homosexuality, and deserves more of an effort for legalization!" is a blatant POV, and the question as a whole would never have received a satisfactory response. No one can tell you why "people" (which is not at all specific as the Reference Desk guidelines state a question should be) care so much about the issues they do. --YbborSurvey! 21:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Sure it is POV, but it is also true. As for the second part, it can be told why people care about the issues they care about. For example, why do people care about lower taxes? Because they don't want to pay money.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.185.131.11 (talk)

Further note to other editors the editor in question was eventually blocked for consistently adding this question back despite multiple editors removing the question. See User talk:71.185.131.11. --YbborSurvey! 23:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help!

My thanks to you for your quick response to my help request in re a "Wikify" note placed on my bio of Dave Guard.  Your reply gave me needed insight into the Wiki monitoring process, and direction into what I still need to do.  I was puzzled about the notice because my article was (according to the basic guidelines) already 90% wikified. Thanks again. K. Kellogg-Smith 14:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

thanks for the help

thanks for the helpful link-- i had no idea it was forbidden to use a template for sig. so i fixed it...Gandalf's-hat 15:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Deletion on Misc. Reference Desk

Hi, I just noticed you deleted something on the Misc. Ref. desk about a Spanish national needing help. Did you try to read the text? If real, it seems like he needs help of somekind, political, saftey, mental. I think we should restore it. Zidel333 00:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

You mean this edit that I undid? The edit was not a "question" for the reference desk. It revealed personal information, much of it was unintelligible, lots of it not in English, it made legal allegations, violated WP:SOAP, and most importantly, was not a question, in violation of Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/guidelines. And, I hate to break it to you, but I don't think that Jacques Chirac passes time reading the English Misplaced Pages miscellaneous reference desk, and if he did, probably wouldn't pull out of Afghanistan on account of what he read there. --YbborSurvey! 01:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Schizophrenic IP vandals

Please keep me informed as to your discoveries, I have been having issues with the 66.230.200 140s, it seems most suspicious. I'd love to know what you find out! Whiskey in the Jar 22:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what vp technical is, but it sounds like a good idea, these things seem to be everywhere, its like a Misplaced Pages version of aliens. Whiskey in the Jar 22:17, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Village Pump (technical). I've made a report there (which I should probably update now). --Ybbor 22:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Dick Cheney

It's pretty obvious that Dick Cheney was kicked out of Yale. It sounds like they gave him a second chance and he blew it. He says he was "asked to leave" and that is the quote I have included in the article and I ask you to please refrain from removing it again. --Jagz 09:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

As I stated in the edit summary, I don't doubt it. I am however, concerned about the reliability and independence of the cited source, as others on the talk page are. --Ybbor 13:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot

SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Misplaced Pages better -- thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from ForteTuba, SuggestBot's caretaker.

P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on the SuggestBot request page. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- SuggestBot 20:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

So rather than help me...

So rather than help me figure out how to properly copyright tag my Bosnians.JPG file, you've used my own admission against me. Great. Ivan Ilir

That's the thing though, there is no proper tag. We are attempting to make an encyclopedia based entirely on free content, and your content wasn't free, it was owned by somebody else. Understand, these aren't rules for the sake of rules, there are real legal implications at stake. We want to make sure as much content as possible is free to use for anyone, for any purpose, and those images weren't. If you want to recreate the image, perhaps you can go through The Wikimedia commons and take pictures you find from there. Those are all free-content for you to use. --Ybbor 13:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about the lack of an edit summary in the Colbert Report article

The prose may have been misleading, but what I was attempting to do was reproduce a quote that Stephen Colbert made on that particular show where he claimed to "rewrite history". I'll check to see that the paragraph makes sense. Thanks anyway for patrolling the page!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tkandell (talk • contribs)

For those interested, the specific diff is here

Ahh, apologies for the misunderstanding. The idea of being able "rewrite history" isn't very encyclopedic in tone. If you were quoting Colbert, you probably should have put it in quotes. In any case, fixing grammar is generally stuff like changing verb tense or punctuation marks, not the changing of content.

In any event, thanks for your contributions, and watch out for bears :) --Ybbor 21:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

YechielMan's RFA

Thank you for participating in either of my unsuccessful requests for adminship. Although the experience was frustrating, it showed me some mistakes I was making, and I hope to learn from those mistakes.

Please take a few minutes to read User:YechielMan/Other stuff/RFA review and advise me how to proceed. Best regards. YechielMan 21:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Warning Removal

My bad. I was not aware of the rule, I was just angry that these people are making their records seemingly clean, which could result in some being more lenient with them if they vandalize, since the person warning them would not know their history (possibly). Sorry I did not know about this rule. ---Signed By:KoЯnfan71 (User Page — My Talk — Contribs) 22:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem. If you look back through the article historys I made the same mistake today. Just have faith that our fellow editors won't see through the charade :) --Ybbor 22:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Democrat Party

On this article's discussion page, see "Information about search engines. It explains why I removed this stuff. A Google search isn't a valid reference. Another editor on the Discussion page explains why and makes a very good case, I think. Griot 01:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Patron saint

Yes- I think you are right to withdraw it; I was just about to oppose, on normal WP title conventions. Outside WP (especially inside a Catholic book) you would be right though. Johnbod 00:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Too bad this didn't get pointed out earlier. My proposal was a major one, and I was surprised when there was absolutely zero discussion on the talk page. If not for some mess with templates on the target page, the wrong decision would have made simply because of a lack of discussion. --Ybbor 01:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Edit Conflict and threads.

I've only recently seen users preface a comment with "(edit conflict)." What is this supposed to connote? the_undertow 03:03, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The best place to go is Help:Edit conflict. Basically, it's when two editors edit a page at the same time, and one saves first. When someone says they have an edit conflict, it usually is just to show that this happened, and that there may be some redundant information between the two posts, but that the message was worthwhile enough to post anyway. Again Help:Edit conflict does a much nicer bob explaining this. --Ybbor 03:34, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

So basically, I've come across the edit conflict warning, and I simply copy my text, and paste it to the latest version of the article. I think you are saying that people insert 'edit conflict' to show that if any continuity is broken, it is because the comment was intended for a previous version of the article? the_undertow 18:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

pretty much. But not necessarily a previous version of the article, just a previous part of the discussion, but that's probably what you meant to say. In case you're curious by the way, the template you saw me use was {{conflict}}.--Ybbor 00:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah yes, I meant discussion. I'm used to seeing the 'edit conflict' warning while reverting vandalism, so I think that's where that came from. Thanks for the help. I am one step closer to knowing just about everything. Haha. the_undertow 01:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

SAT/ACT map

Whoops—sorry about that. Not checking the article was really unexcusable. I was getting ready to get offline, just happended to see that image on the SAT page, thought it would make sense on the ACT page, and when I opened up the ACT page, and didn't see it in the same position as on the SAT article, I made the idiotic assumption that it wasn't being used there. No excuses, it was just plain dumb of me.

Having said that, I must ask about your statement that no acknowledgement was given and that this was a violation of GDFL. I'm not all that familiar with this, but I had been under the impression that, if an image was okay for use on one Misplaced Pages page, it was reproducable on others as well. I know I've seen this many, many times. Could you clarify? Thanks. Unschool 17:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh no, provided an image isn't being used under fair use (and this one wasn't) the image itself is fine to use anywhere on Misplaced Pages. The issue was that you also copied and pasted the caption without attribution. That was somebody else's work, so you're supposed to link back to where you found it. The image itself isn't a problem since when you click on it, you're taken to the contribution history.

For more explanation you can see the help desk page where I found this out. --Ybbor 17:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, it's much clearer now. Unschool 17:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

But is it even Tammy?

For all we know, we may be addressing friendly notes to a malignant imposter, or a well-meaning idiot. --Orange Mike 03:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

True. But an explination of policy can never hurt. I don't see any harm in assuming it is her. --Ybbor 12:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, then, your language seemed fairly reasonable to me (but I'd prefer a disclaimer in it that says, "... if that's really who you are" or something of the sort). --Orange Mike 13:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me. --Ybbor 13:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

RE:WP:IFU

See Misplaced Pages:Images for upload/Templates for a detailed explanation. ffm 14:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Georgetown University

At last! Thanks for your work and hoya saxa!--Patrick 03:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Opera South

I agree, it's a borderline article, I created it to remove a red link on Stanisław Moniuszko. I hope I can find more references to it to add in future. Lethe 12:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Request for assistance

As someone with whom I have reviewed or worked with on an article or talk page, I humbly request your assistance in reviewing the Aggie Bonfire page for Featured Article status. Any/all constructive input is welcomed and appreciated on the FAC nomination page, but please read the instructions for reviewing before you make a comment. Thanks in advance for your assistance. — BQZip01 — 05:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

All of your comments have been addressed in the review. Would you feel comfortable in changing your Comment to Support and/or crossing out all items of yours that you feel have been reasonably addressed? — BQZip01 —  22:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

As I said, I don't think I have enough expierence to give an up or down vote. I'd be happy to strike everything though. --Ybbor 23:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks — BQZip01 —  04:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey!

Thanxs for the personal message about the ACT image! I provided the source and fair use rationales. See you around in the future. =) Jumping cheese 21:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Normally I'm a big fan of templates, but WP:TEMPLAR has some merit. ;) --Ybbor 02:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Gamerz Unlimited

Sorry for the misunderstanding regarding the gamerz unlimited entry. The actual number of online gamers is 908. Please visit gamerzunlimited.com to verify. Thank you in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.161.205.229 (talk) 03:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Quite frankly, 908 is nothing on the Internet. My favorite forum has over 100,000 members, and just barely survived a requests for deletion discussion. Alexa puts you at the 1,094,661 most visited site on the web, which is kind of down there. If every small forum on the web put their abbreviation on the disambiguation pages here, the enitre site would be unavigateable. Until you can establish notability, keep it off the disambiguation page. --Ybbor 03:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

angry

I keep trying to make a wiki page but everyone is saying it is advertisement but they probably dont even look to see what they are deleting. Im just trying to create like some page with facts about the jothri website But it is not advertisement.I want my deleted page back.

I never called it an advertisement. but to be included in wikipedia, a subject needs to meet a threshold of notability. Are there any reliable secondary sources that discuss your website? --Ybbor 21:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use disputed for Image:CFC screenshot.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:CFC screenshot.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Misplaced Pages:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

BLPN

http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_hr.png Horizontal line (use sparingly) Hi Ybbor, I think the issue with TD's personal info is resolved at this point. But as you opened the issue at BLPN, I wanted to ask if you concur before I archive it. Do you agree? btw, good work! R. Baley 17:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Baley, it would ok, as long as this principle is enforce with equal vigor by the editors of Wikipeida for the other non-notable victims subjects of wikpeida bios and not forgotten.TEAMCrocko 18:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Your WP:point is not lost on me. R. Baley 18:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah Bailey, that would be no problem with me.--Ybbor 22:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Done, first time I've tried that. . .hope I did it right. R. Baley 23:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Straw dogs

meet me there TTBA, thanks.TEAMCrocko 18:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Unless you mean the pizza place. In any case, I pass. --Ybbor 22:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your response to my comment on the village pump - I was not aware of the project you mentioned which looks v interesting Dr Spam (MD) 08:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for correcting my image on Gordon Mansfield. Please let me know if I need to do anything else. :) Kmangal 8:26, 05 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome :) But I have no idea what you're talking about ;) when did I ever touch the Mansfield image? --Ybbor 00:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

thanks(reply)

(this is the reply to my question on the humanties page) This is not a homework question nor does it have to do with reading. It's an extra credit assignment and all I need is the three capitals that were made only because the national government took land from other territories.

Yes, and I told you exactly where to look. Category:Capital districts and territories. --Ybbor 02:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:JIMBO

Personally I don't particularly have any objections to the change, but... the talk page of a redirect is not really an appropriate place to propose changing it. Don't be surprised if you get objections as people notice it —Random832 00:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

wait - has this REALLY been pointed at the user page and not the talk page since July? I swear I typed it in and got the talk page just this week. nevermind i guess. —Random832 00:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Congrats You

That's awesome! You think you'll go? Which school? Georgetown (as you have written) is a pretty cool place. And cool that it might have helped for the interview. They're trying hard this year to kill the party scene, which is too bad. Otherwise, and academically, it's a blast.--Patrick Ѻ 03:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

First off, don't worry about declaring majors, your only supposed to have that set Sophomore year, and even then it doesn't really matter. I added a double major my senior year, just for kicks, only to drop it before I graduated last May, so I was a government major with history and Italian minors.

GU v. GW: I recognize GW has some better politics classes and professors than GU has these days, and they've worked hard to get to (and above) GU's already very high level. That said, Georgetown still has a much better reputation nationally and especially internationally. GU also has the SFS, whose classes you can usually take. About being integrated into the city: They have a section of the city, and a central lawn around which many buildings are based, but it's still not a campus in the way Georgetown's is on one plot of land, with many lawns between buildings. Now, you call it an asset, but that's the main complaint I've heard about GW. Georgetown doesn't have a metro, as I think you investigated, they have free shuttles to two metros. Also we have at least on nationally competitive team, and I know of very few who given equal support, chose GW over GU.

About DC. You got museums, but no self respecting student visits them, 'cept on parent's weekend. The 9:30 Club is the best venue in DC, so watch their site for concerts. Buses are fine for getting around. Get yourself the $5 SmarTrip card (might come integrated with the Georgetown GOCard soon), which works on everything, including the oh so useful $1 Circulator buses that run Wisconsin to Union Station. Also, I find the Post's Going Out Guru's blog handy for what's new and where to take a date. Good luck and hoya saxa!--Patrick Ѻ 21:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey. Sorry it took a while to respond, holidays and stuff have kept me of the 'pedia. I do have a job, I got one at a small PR firm here in Georgetown, and I'm pretty sure that the Georgetown name is strong here, since 5 out of the 6 other employees here in the DC branch have some connection to Georgetown. But it's still more about what you want with the degree, and it's taken a while for many of my friends with similar degrees to settle. One of my best friends has spent the better part of the last 7 months since graduation bouncing around, often at temp jobs with the IMF and World Bank, but they never want to hire long term. The career center was generally of no use whatsoever, unless you're looking for NYC banking jobs. True, their job listing site is alright (same as GW's), and I got mine through it, but mostly it seems geared for Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley, etc. The only government related firms I remember them bringing to recruit on campus were these strategic risk analysis groups, and others that contracted for the State Dept. They could get my friends summer internships on the hill with their congressman, but I was never interested in that kind of slavery. So the big question: does the name matter? It surely doesn't hurt, and I'd have to say every little edge helps in cutthroat competition.

Oh, and happy 2008! It will take some time before I'm used to typing that in the accessdate field on my references.--Patrick Ѻ 18:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Ybbor. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.