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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
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Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of ]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->

The result was delete. If someone else really wants to put this into the project namespace, I guess you could, but, honestly, we can do without this. --] - '']'' - ] 00:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

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:{{la|Deletion gestapo}} – <includeonly>(])</includeonly><noinclude>(])</noinclude> :{{la|Deletion gestapo}} – <includeonly>(])</includeonly><noinclude>(])</noinclude>
A quick search engine test reveals only five results. This subject is clearly non-notable. ] 02:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC) A quick search engine test reveals only five results. This subject is clearly non-notable. ] 02:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
** Juansidious - did you read the article? It refers to people who want to delete "anything that can’t be validated using the first four hits from a one-word search on Google"<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2006/04/digging_deepermyspace_wikipedi.html|title=Mediashift, ''"MySpace, Misplaced Pages Cope With Growing Pains"''}}</ref> - which is precisely what you did! Moreover, there are more references than just web pages. See also ] --Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup><BR> ** Juansidious - did you read the article? It refers to people who want to delete "anything that can’t be validated using the first four hits from a one-word search on Google"<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2006/04/digging_deepermyspace_wikipedi.html|title=Mediashift, ''"MySpace, Misplaced Pages Cope With Growing Pains"''}}</ref> - which is precisely what you did! Moreover, there are more references than just web pages. See also ] --Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup><BR>
***If you look through those five hits only one passes ], and that's a really trivial mention. The results aren't any better if you try searching for "deletion Nazi" instead. The notability criteria are not satisfied. '''''<font color="#FF0000">]</font>''''' 15:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC) ***If you look through those five hits only one passes ], and that's a really trivial mention. The results aren't any better if you try searching for "deletion Nazi" instead. The notability criteria are not satisfied. '']'' 15:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


*'''Move''' I'm not an expert on what the different spaces are called/do, but strikes me this is an essay about wikipedia. It's not necessarily bad, and shows some knowledge of the ins and outs of wikipedia. Move it to where the other essays live, or the user's own pages.] 03:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Move''' I'm not an expert on what the different spaces are called/do, but strikes me this is an essay about wikipedia. It's not necessarily bad, and shows some knowledge of the ins and outs of wikipedia. Move it to where the other essays live, or the user's own pages.] 03:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:*'''Comment''': Most essays are either in the Misplaced Pages: or User: namespace. This one, if moved, would probably do best as a user subpage of the author's. ''''']''''' <sup>(]/]/])</sup> 04:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC) :*'''Comment''': Most essays are either in the Misplaced Pages: or User: namespace. This one, if moved, would probably do best as a user subpage of the author's. ''''']''''' <sup>(]/]/])</sup> 04:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong delete (Oh, the irony!)'''. Full of ], possibly created by a disgruntled editor to make a point, although the point ''may'' be worth making, if reliable sources could be found, but they don't seem to be, the NYTimes one isn't about deletionism, and the Telegraph one is a blog. Only one thing for it... send in the Gestapo! ] 04:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Strong delete (Oh, the irony!)'''. Full of ], possibly created by a disgruntled editor to make a point, although the point ''may'' be worth making, if reliable sources could be found, but they don't seem to be, the NYTimes one isn't about deletionism, and the Telegraph one is a blog. Only one thing for it... send in the Gestapo! ] 04:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
**'Mainstream websites published and maintained by notable media outlets' That would be my blog on the Telegraph's website, then. Mind you, I hadn't heard the term until I found a trackback to the article.] 09:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete (preferred) or at very least userfy'''. Seems to be calling all deletionists Nazis... sources are largely unreliable, trivial, or on Misplaced Pages itself. Once you get past the POV information, it does provide a fairly decent summary of Deletion ins and outs, though (the one redeeming feature). ''''']''''' <sup>(]/]/])</sup> 04:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Delete (preferred) or at very least userfy'''. Seems to be calling all deletionists Nazis... sources are largely unreliable, trivial, or on Misplaced Pages itself. Once you get past the POV information, it does provide a fairly decent summary of Deletion ins and outs, though (the one redeeming feature). ''''']''''' <sup>(]/]/])</sup> 04:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Move to project space''' it is an interesting piece and may be usefull to some ] but is not notable enough for an article. ] 05:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Move to project space''' it is an interesting piece and may be usefull to some ] but is not notable enough for an article. ] 05:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
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*'''Delete''' cleaned up it might be of minor interest to some in the project space, but utterly irrelevant here --] 11:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Delete''' cleaned up it might be of minor interest to some in the project space, but utterly irrelevant here --] 11:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. The only reliable source mentioning the 'deletion gestapo' is , and even then it is a quote within a quote. ] 11:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Delete'''. The only reliable source mentioning the 'deletion gestapo' is , and even then it is a quote within a quote. ] 11:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' this term is hardly used at all, and is not appropriate as an encyclopedia article. Might be OK as a userspace essay. '''''<font color="#FF0000">]</font>''''' 12:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Delete''' this term is hardly used at all, and is not appropriate as an encyclopedia article. Might be OK as a userspace essay. '']'' 12:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Non-encyclopaedic and non-notable (oh the irony etc) --''']''' <sub>]</sub> 12:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Delete''' Non-encyclopaedic and non-notable (oh the irony etc) --''']''' <sub>]</sub> 12:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Send to extermination camp''' I am now a member of both the Deletion Gestapo ''and'' of the ]. --] 13:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Send to extermination camp''' I am now a member of both the Deletion Gestapo ''and'' of the ]. --] 13:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
:* Holocaust "Humour" is both in extremely poor taste and completely unnecessary for this discussion. Please be sensitive. --] 14:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC) :* Holocaust "Humour" is both in extremely poor taste and completely unnecessary for this discussion. Please be sensitive. --] 14:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
::*<s>'''Send to extermination camp''', </s> ''']''' That is the vote I actually wanted to cast from the beginning, I definetely believe this belongs somewhere on wikipedia, just not on the main page; but I couldn't resist the irony (:.
:::Other wise, I'd like to point out that the '''more''' you were into morbid and black humour, the '''more''' you were likely to survive concentration camps. Cf ] (esp. '']'' and ''])'', ], ] et al. --] 03:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*'''Comment''' I've been known to try to inject humor into my votes (and occasionally get berated for it), but this goes over the line IMO. ] 03:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
::::* ''De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum'' --] 06:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
::::: Translation: "One musn't quarrel about tastes and colours" to those who are curious about the term. My comment "it is easy to laugh until it happens to you" --] <sup>(])</sup> 06:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::::*Like all classical quotes, there is much more to them than just a translation: --] 07:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::*Precisely. Should it happen to you ] at it even ].--] 07:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' A neutral article could be written, but this one flunks the neutrality test just on the title alone. Having one's creation deleted is a natural consequence of having a "free encylopedia that anyone can edit". That type of freedom to add and subtract is what comes with the concept of a "wiki". I can't vote "keep" or "delete" on this one, since it could be fixed, and wikipedia is one of the notable developments of the first decade of this century. Ten years ago, people didn't have the expectation that their writing could be "published" without prior approval; hence, they never got to the part of being frustrated when something they had posted was taken back down. That said, however, I'm an inclusionist and I would never think of describing any of my deletionist friends to Nazis. ] 15:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Comment''' A neutral article could be written, but this one flunks the neutrality test just on the title alone. Having one's creation deleted is a natural consequence of having a "free encylopedia that anyone can edit". That type of freedom to add and subtract is what comes with the concept of a "wiki". I can't vote "keep" or "delete" on this one, since it could be fixed, and wikipedia is one of the notable developments of the first decade of this century. Ten years ago, people didn't have the expectation that their writing could be "published" without prior approval; hence, they never got to the part of being frustrated when something they had posted was taken back down. That said, however, I'm an inclusionist and I would never think of describing any of my deletionist friends to Nazis. ] 15:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
** '''Comment''' regarding COMMENT - It "flunks the neutrality test just on the title alone" because it explains the origin of the epithets! Should we consider the ] article to flunk the NPOV test on the title alone? What about ]? Or ], ], or ]? --Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 21:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*** <B>HELP!</B> Why did my above comment get appended with "...Preceding unsigned comment..." -- I put three tildes at the end! It has done this before. If anybody knows why it is doing that please let me know. Preparing to add three tildes to this comment... Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 21:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
****Because its four <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. ] 22:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
***** <B>]!!</B> How stupid of me. I've been away from WP for weeks, in Germany. I think the beer erased one tilde! Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 00:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*'''Userify'' as it's OR and non-encyc. It could be an essay after ruthless editing. Alternately, '''delete'''. ]<small> (] | ])</small> 17:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Userify'' as it's OR and non-encyc. It could be an essay after ruthless editing. Alternately, '''delete'''. ]<small> (] | ])</small> 17:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' mein fuhrer! Though I could see a broader article on deletionists maybe having a place in wikipedia, if that's not too meta. ] 17:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Delete''' mein fuhrer! Though I could see a broader article on deletionists maybe having a place in wikipedia, if that's not too meta. ] 17:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Well sourced and well written. Oh and... the irony is palpable ] 23:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC) *'''Keep''' Well sourced and well written. Oh and... the irony is palpable ] 23:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Make into a Wiki-essay''' like ]. I was thinking of making a user sub-page for irresponsible deletionists (not all deletionist are irresponsible as some actually help improve the article rather than inventing a new -cruft word) but I think another disgruntled user has beat me to it. If made into such, can someone notify me in my talk page so I can improve it further? --] <sup>(])</sup> 01:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*Either '''delete''' or '''wiki:-space it.''' There are some many terrible jokes possible here... ]] 03:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' A more thorough look for published sources in another few months will probably find sufficient support for actual articles on discussions outside WP on WP policy questions. If other people think what we;'re doing is notable, when they write about it in the NYT and the chronicle and the several dozen other places where articles will appear, we're stuck with it. We may start to need rules on whether we can cite material appearing elsewhere as acceptable comment on our policy in these discussions. this may sound circular, but the courts frequently cite academic articles critiqueing their decisions--not a precedent, but as informative. ''']''' (]) 06:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Move''' to userspace as an essay. The article does illustrate some valid points about the deletion process and it is a bit humorous... --] ] 07:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' I know already what is going to happen to this article. But I still must vote keep, (1) There are many, many, sources listed. The problem being all the "deletionists" will hate it because it rings very true, and therefore will draw a huge amount of delete votes. (2) The article is very well written and is as non-pov as you can get talking about a subject like this. No where in the article can you tell what the author thinks of the subject, IE he didn't write "those deletion gestapo are ruining everything!" or anything like that. And if the name suggests POV issues then so does, ] or ], or even just, ]. ] 09:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep''' convert to wiki essay, a plethora of sources are listed, definatly notable and I really see the '''irony''' that this has been tagged for rescue, and ]. - ] 10:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', '''do not move to wikispace'''. Soapboxing has no place on Misplaced Pages, especially in article space, and synthesizing a bunch of unconnected sources is not carte blanche to make a big ] essay about how angry you are something you wrote was unsuitable for Misplaced Pages. Utterly ]. Note I have removed the {{tl|Rescue}} template from this article, as it is not a lack of references or a need for cleanup it is lacking. ]&nbsp;] 10:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep'''. Per the AfD process, articles that can be improved through regular editing should be before taking to AfD. I've re-added the {{tl|Rescue}} template as tag is for AfDs that need improvement. I hope no one's suggesting that there is no way this article could ever be improved enough. ] 12:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Delete'''. I will suggest this article cannot be improved enough. One thing I have noticed time and time again is that mainspace is not for navel gazing. There is quite a bit navel gazing here. This article does not belong in the mainspace. Period. Furthermore, all it appears to do is to create hostility between users. I would consider myself a deletionist but those points do not even remotely identify what I believe in. ] 13:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' The sources cited are either not reliable or only possibly arguably reliable at best. I'd be happy to review if an unambiguously reliable source (or better two) were added. Per my comments at the ] AfD, just because we don't like what something says about us, doesn't mean we should exclude it if it passes our regular criteria. Note to all and none - detach from the emotion of the content and focus on the process. --] 13:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. The nomination is badly reasoned, but even with sources this is basically a ] ], and not an article at all. -]<sup>]</sup> 13:36, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' this half hearted neogolism or Move to ] where the Deletionists can really go to town!. --] 13:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' (not even bothering to vote at this point)... Reliable Sources? Check. Non-trivial Coverage? Check. ]? Check. 15:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*'''Delete''' - I'm about as inclusionist as they come, but '''no'''. This is little more than a recasting of ] and ] in negative POV terms with a few gratuitous violations of Godwin's Law thrown in. It's an obvious ] violation, cites 'sources' which are all Wikimedia project pages, blogs, or which don't use the terms they are supposedly supporting, and seems clearly meant to insult members of an opposing philosophy. The last thing we need are snide little articles like; ], ], ], ], and whatnot else. I'm tempted to speedy delete it as an ], but once something gets to AfD it is usually less disruptive to let it play out. That said, it would be a good thing if the involved parties agreed to dump this. --] 17:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - A ] sourced with blogs and more self referencing. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">]'']''</span> 18:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', over 30 references, and we shouldn't be afraid of or stifle criticism. I also would not be opposed to revising the article as an essay and maybe toning down the reference to "Nazis," if possible, as while I tend to agree with lots of deletionist efforts, comparisons to "Nazis" are a bit hyperbolic. Sincerely, --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">]</span><sup>'']''</sup> 18:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
***We shouldn't stifle criticism, but we also should not put criticism in the form of an article. You illustrated perfectly what is wrong with this article with your suggestion of a name change; its all a hyperbolic opinion essay (sourced with blogs), packaged in a box of POV, and tied up with an ugly bow of self reference. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">]'']''</span> 22:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
**Let's look at those 30 "references" shall we
**#A PBS blog that mentions "deletion gestapo" in a quote of another blog
**#]
**#Blog
**#Forum
**#Blog
**#Book about blogs written by a blogger, even if one did have access to it, it does not cite a page number (or even a chapter) of the 256 page book.
**# article about deletion discussions on Misplaced Pages, a reliable source, but does not mention "gestapo," "nazi," "police," or "mafia," etc.
**#Blog post about the blogger's own MediaWiki installation, does not mention "gestapo," etc or even really complain about deletion. I don't see what this is supposed to be sourcing.
**#Forum, links to main page, not specific thread.
**#] - ]
**#Another article about page protection, vandalism, and disputes - does not mention deletion. ''see "Comment" below'' -- ''Gekritzl''
**#Broken - ref name is "livejournal" - a blog site ''see "Comment" below'' -- ''Gekritzl''
**#Same blog as ref 1
**#Blog
**#] - ] to a page in the meta "humor" category
**#Broken link - to a blog?
**#Broken link - to a ] (deletion review log)?
**#] - another ] to a meta page
**#Blog
**#Slashdot, quoting ]
**#Blog
**#] - see numbers 15 and 18
**#A ] to our own ]
**#Same as number 11, but with a broken link instead of no link.
**#A ] to our own ]
**#A ] to ]
**#A ] to ]
**#A ] to ]
**#Same as number 27
**#A ] to ] - a rejected proposal
**;Other references
***Blog post in a blog about beer
***]
***Blog
***Blog
***The article also links to our own ]
:To summarize, of 35 refs - 13 blog links, 2 Slashdot, 2 forums, 14 links to Wikimedia projects, 1 vague reference to a book, 3 New York Times (only 2 articles) that don't mention the topic. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">]'']''</span> 21:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
** '''Comment''' - Regarding #11, The WP article never inferred that the reference discussed "deletion" in particular; WP article used the citation for the term "revert war". Referenced article is about WP's "Anyone Can Edit" policy, and protection policies. Regarding #12, Somebody broke the link - now fixed. Not a blog, an article on MySpace & Misplaced Pages, by Mark Glaser: "Journalist, Critic, Facilitator, New Media Expert". -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup>
** '''Comment''' - also, regarding #7, indeed does not mention "gestapo" etc, but discusses the delete wars with specific examples. -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup>
***Number 7 does not describe any such thing. It describes deletion "discussions." The word "war" is not used in the body of the article at all. If anything it suggests deletion discussions are a lot more simple and pleasant (and quite silly) than they actually are. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">]'']''</span> 17:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Make it a user or essay page, and change the horrible name which is insensitive. Gestapo is not a humorous name to those that lived then. Deletion police would be acceptable, I think. The article is improvable and the concept notable. Deletion should be the last resort, not the first. — ] 22:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Userify''' I'm going to assume good faith, but I'm pretty close to classifying this as a ] violation. --] 23:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' or userfy - this is not a notable phenomenon outside of Misplaced Pages. You'd need a lot better sources to argue that it was. ] <small>]</small> 23:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

:: ''Detailed consideration...''

::{| style="border:black solid 1px"
| This is an interesting one. But it's also fairly self evident on a cursory check, how it goes at AFD. There are several issues:
# There is an expression, "Deletion Nazi/s". It is verifiable the expression has been coined or used.
# It is a ] - that is, in simple terms, a slang expression coined for a specialized concept in some pop culture/s. ''Neologisms are words and terms that have recently been coined, generally do not appear in any dictionary, but may be used widely or within certain communities. Protologisms are neologisms that have not yet caught on widely.'' (WP:NEO)
# Most neologisms do not get articles, and even well known ones are routinely discouraged in favor of ]. There is a guideline on this: ].
# It is used in typical places pop culture references occur - blogs, self-edited articles such as wiki's, etc. The majority are within Misplaced Pages itself. There appear to be very few serious references outside these. There are policies and guidelines, ], ] and ] which between them require reliable sources ''sufficient to make a neutral article''.
# The term is a form of "slang". That is, a street expression. Not every street expression, slang term, or the link, has an encyclopedia article. There is a policy for that: ], and a guideline for notability in general, ].
# Also on ] and ], the expression does not seem to have gained more than tiny coverage. The expression seems mostly to relate to Misplaced Pages and kin and their subcultures at present.
# The term is intrinsically non-neutral. There may in theory be scope for an article on a different title, perhaps. But "Deletion Nazi" (disapproving slang for one stereotyped as a deleter) ranks with "Traitorous Democrats" (disapproving slang for one stereotyped as so pro-Democrat they would fail to defend the country) as an intrindically non-neutral term. It contains ingherent viewpoint. There is a policy on that, ]. NPOV is "non-negotiable" on Misplaced Pages.
# There is also the concern that one should characterize, not re-enact, an article topic. That is, we do not just describe what one is. We show all sides of the argument. If the article were kept, it could not be kept in one-sided form. Sources would be needed that, without ] or ] could create a neutral encyclopedic article.

Conclusion.........
|}

* '''Delete''' 1/ ] is strongly involved here and states neologism articles are strongly discouraged, and ''"Articles on protologisms are almost always deleted"''; 2/ ] "not an indiscriminate collection of information. Collecting every newly emergent neologism would breach this; 3/ ] and other policies require a certain degree of long term historical perspective, notable usage, etc. This expression is neither well defined (] nor widely used. No good evidence has been provided that it has passed into common speech outside its own small circle. 4/ It is cruft (definition: of interest to fans and such only, limited or no general interest). If kept, in addition, ] would require at the least a rename. But to my mind, ], and then ] and ], seem fairly conclusive at this time. ] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">(] | ])</span></sup> 23:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' As originator of the article (yes, I take the blame, not necessarily credit), it did pain me to use pejorative (and non-]!) terms to describe some WP contributors. I didn't coin the terms so please don't shoot the messenger (nobody has, so far, and I thank you). Edits here at WP are, by a vast majority, made in ] and this Talk page is a stellar example of cooperation, consideration, and an almost total lack of any animosity or "Gestapo-ism". Nevertheless the frustrations of so many contributors (for example, expressed by Adam Megacz) needed to be aired. And, while the article may lean "left" (toward inclusionism) with an attempt at NPOV and showing both sides, this discussion page really leans the other way toward conservatism and deletionism, it seems? Yet, no honest, good faith vote for deletion is taken personally. Thank you all for your comments, inputs, and even some edits and improvements to the ] itself. Sincerely. -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 00:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
**Mainspace is not the place to air the frustrations of contributors unless those frustrations are well documented by reliable secondary sources. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">]'']''</span> 01:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*** The concept, the neologisms, and (yes) the frustrations, are directly relevant to the crux of the article, providing (as many people discussing the concepts here agree) the origin of terms, the processes of discussion and deletion voting, and the reasons people would create such pejorative terms. And, an attempt at "well documented by reliable secondary sources" has been made; however, since the terms themselves and the discussions about deletionism are largely found on blogs and WP talk pages, there is a ], or a ] catch. Here on this page, and other talk pages (both in blogs and on ]s) such discussions and terminologies are aired and invented. Some other references (NYTimes, books, journalists, and others) have been found and cited. "Self-reference" in the article (as some people claim) is unavoidable, if one wants to cite WP policies to describe reasons for deletion and inclusion. -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 01:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
** Gekritzl - What's this got to do with the article's inclusion? How an article comes to be, doesn't influence whether it has a place (nor should it). Your views on other editors, your feelings, and so on, whatever they are, aren't relevant to AFD. Non-neutral or non-encyclopedic information can easily be fixed. But the problem is, none of the above paragraph actually speaks to any policy-based reason why an article titled "Deletion Nazi's" might be viable. So it's unhelpful here. ] and other policies referenced ''were written knowing that neologisms would largely be excluded, and specifically aimed at that effect''. ] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">(] | ])</span></sup> 01:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*** FT2 - Thanks for your comments. The answer is simple: This type of article is unique. It's ''about'' blogs and WP talk pages, in essence, so WP policies stating that "''citations to blogs"'' and so forth are not appropriate - are generally not applicable for any article that addresses exactly those forums. WP Policy also offers exceptions in that regard. Also, "non-encyclopedic" is somewhat subjective, and ] isn't as strict as most deletionists seem to believe. The other point is that it's not just about neologisms, but about social interoperation (whether cooperative or not) within the context of ]s and ]s. -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 01:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
** PS: Your comment about " views on other editors, feelings, and so on... aren't relevant to AFD" are inappropriate and are bent toward the exact thing that I was claiming did not exist on this talk page: personal attacks, and so forth. My comment that this talk page has been very civil had nothing to do with inclusionism of the article. It was simply a "thank you" to all who commented here, and a statement that votes for deletion are not taken personally. And, thank you, also, FT2, for your contributions. Please give contributors and commentors the benefit of the doubt. -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 02:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
**"Nevertheless the frustrations of so many contributors (for example, expressed by Adam Megacz) needed to be aired. And, while the article may lean 'left' (toward inclusionism) with an attempt at NPOV and showing both sides, this discussion page really leans the other way toward conservatism and deletionism, it seems?" - Essays and discussions in the Misplaced Pages, User, and/or various Talk namespaces are allowed to express (or 'lean' towards) a POV. Articles in the mainspace are not. The article namespace does not exist for, and cannot allow, 'airing frustrations'. Look at it this way; when you put something in article space it has to speak not for ''you'', but for '''Misplaced Pages'''. Misplaced Pages itself has to be neutral in disputes. It does not 'take sides'. If you want to 'air frustrations' do it in some other namespace - User, Misplaced Pages, and their respective Talk namespaces would all be appropriate... article space is not. --] 12:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*** Well, you state the obvious. The cathartic nature of contributing to Misplaced Pages is only secondary; the content itself is the prime issue. However, without the cathartic feelings it gives, nobody would EVER bother to contribute - there are no other benefits. This is an underlying point of the article. -- Geĸrίtz<I>Ŀ<B>.</B></I><sub><B>.</B></sub><B>.</B>•˚<sup><B>˚</B></sup> 12:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC) <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) {{{2|}}}</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::: "Making a point" is not a valid reason for an article to exist either..... ] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">(] | ])</span></sup> 03:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong Delete'''. Self referential, unencylopedic, and the attempts at categorizing this as a "real phenomenon" is about as believable as Apartheid in Korea. '''<span style="color:#c22">^</span>]'''</sup>]]&nbsp;<em style="font-size:10px;">13:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)</em>
* Keep. ] 16:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Wonderful blog entry, has the advantage of using almost exclusively other blogs as "sources". Not an encyclopedia entry. OR, Synth, NEO. Should I mention one-sided POV or is that just so obvious from the title that it isn't necessary? I'm trying to picture a balanced article. Looks like sour grapes escalated into a rant to me. ]<sup>]</sup> 17:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Move to project namespace'''. This is an essay about Misplaced Pages, not an article, and should be placed as such. ] (]) 18:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Move to project namespace'''. Good essay, but way too soapboxy and self-referential for the main namespace. ] | ] 17:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Move to wikipedia: namespace'''. This is an essay. WP:NOR all over and references back to Misplaced Pages should give it. At least ''a deletionist nazi'' says so -- <span style="text-decoration: none;">] <sup>] ]</sup></span> 19:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 15:46, 4 April 2024

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. If someone else really wants to put this into the project namespace, I guess you could, but, honestly, we can do without this. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 00:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Deletion gestapo

Deletion gestapo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

A quick search engine test reveals only five results. This subject is clearly non-notable. Juansidious 02:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

    • Juansidious - did you read the article? It refers to people who want to delete "anything that can’t be validated using the first four hits from a one-word search on Google" - which is precisely what you did! Moreover, there are more references than just web pages. See also Misplaced Pages policy on notability --GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚
  • Move I'm not an expert on what the different spaces are called/do, but strikes me this is an essay about wikipedia. It's not necessarily bad, and shows some knowledge of the ins and outs of wikipedia. Move it to where the other essays live, or the user's own pages.Merkinsmum 03:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: Most essays are either in the Misplaced Pages: or User: namespace. This one, if moved, would probably do best as a user subpage of the author's. Hersfold 04:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Send to extermination camp, Arbitrary pardon à la Amon Goeth That is the vote I actually wanted to cast from the beginning, I definetely believe this belongs somewhere on wikipedia, just not on the main page; but I couldn't resist the irony (:.
Other wise, I'd like to point out that the more you were into morbid and black humour, the more you were likely to survive concentration camps. Cf Solzhenitsyn (esp. The Gulag Archipelago and A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich), Imre Kertész, Elie Wiesel et al. --Victor falk 03:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Translation: "One musn't quarrel about tastes and colours" to those who are curious about the term. My comment "it is easy to laugh until it happens to you" --Lenticel 06:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment A neutral article could be written, but this one flunks the neutrality test just on the title alone. Having one's creation deleted is a natural consequence of having a "free encylopedia that anyone can edit". That type of freedom to add and subtract is what comes with the concept of a "wiki". I can't vote "keep" or "delete" on this one, since it could be fixed, and wikipedia is one of the notable developments of the first decade of this century. Ten years ago, people didn't have the expectation that their writing could be "published" without prior approval; hence, they never got to the part of being frustrated when something they had posted was taken back down. That said, however, I'm an inclusionist and I would never think of describing any of my deletionist friends to Nazis. Mandsford 15:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment regarding COMMENT - It "flunks the neutrality test just on the title alone" because it explains the origin of the epithets! Should we consider the faggot article to flunk the NPOV test on the title alone? What about The Soup Nazi? Or Eurotrash, Wop, or spic? --GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ 21:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs)
      • HELP! Why did my above comment get appended with "...Preceding unsigned comment..." -- I put three tildes at the end! It has done this before. If anybody knows why it is doing that please let me know. Preparing to add three tildes to this comment... GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs) 21:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • 'Userify as it's OR and non-encyc. It could be an essay after ruthless editing. Alternately, delete. CRGreathouse (t | c) 17:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete mein fuhrer! Though I could see a broader article on deletionists maybe having a place in wikipedia, if that's not too meta. Artw 17:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Well sourced and well written. Oh and... the irony is palpable Bjrobinson 23:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Make into a Wiki-essay like Misplaced Pages:"In popular culture" articles. I was thinking of making a user sub-page for irresponsible deletionists (not all deletionist are irresponsible as some actually help improve the article rather than inventing a new -cruft word) but I think another disgruntled user has beat me to it. If made into such, can someone notify me in my talk page so I can improve it further? --Lenticel 01:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Either delete or wiki:-space it. There are some many terrible jokes possible here... humblefool® 03:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment A more thorough look for published sources in another few months will probably find sufficient support for actual articles on discussions outside WP on WP policy questions. If other people think what we;'re doing is notable, when they write about it in the NYT and the chronicle and the several dozen other places where articles will appear, we're stuck with it. We may start to need rules on whether we can cite material appearing elsewhere as acceptable comment on our policy in these discussions. this may sound circular, but the courts frequently cite academic articles critiqueing their decisions--not a precedent, but as informative. DGG (talk) 06:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Move to userspace as an essay. The article does illustrate some valid points about the deletion process and it is a bit humorous... --Hdt83 07:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I know already what is going to happen to this article. But I still must vote keep, (1) There are many, many, sources listed. The problem being all the "deletionists" will hate it because it rings very true, and therefore will draw a huge amount of delete votes. (2) The article is very well written and is as non-pov as you can get talking about a subject like this. No where in the article can you tell what the author thinks of the subject, IE he didn't write "those deletion gestapo are ruining everything!" or anything like that. And if the name suggests POV issues then so does, Christian or Democratic Party, or even just, gestapo. Viperix 09:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep convert to wiki essay, a plethora of sources are listed, definatly notable and I really see the irony that this has been tagged for rescue, and that the rescue tag is up for deletion. - Fosnez 10:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, do not move to wikispace. Soapboxing has no place on Misplaced Pages, especially in article space, and synthesizing a bunch of unconnected sources is not carte blanche to make a big pointy essay about how angry you are something you wrote was unsuitable for Misplaced Pages. Utterly original research. Note I have removed the {{Rescue}} template from this article, as it is not a lack of references or a need for cleanup it is lacking. Neil ム 10:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep. Per the AfD process, articles that can be improved through regular editing should be before taking to AfD. I've re-added the {{Rescue}} template as tag is for AfDs that need improvement. I hope no one's suggesting that there is no way this article could ever be improved enough. Benjiboi 12:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Delete. I will suggest this article cannot be improved enough. One thing I have noticed time and time again is that mainspace is not for navel gazing. There is quite a bit navel gazing here. This article does not belong in the mainspace. Period. Furthermore, all it appears to do is to create hostility between users. I would consider myself a deletionist but those points do not even remotely identify what I believe in. Spryde 13:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete The sources cited are either not reliable or only possibly arguably reliable at best. I'd be happy to review if an unambiguously reliable source (or better two) were added. Per my comments at the Essjay controversy AfD, just because we don't like what something says about us, doesn't mean we should exclude it if it passes our regular criteria. Note to all and none - detach from the emotion of the content and focus on the process. --Dweller 13:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. The nomination is badly reasoned, but even with sources this is basically a self-referential definition, and not an article at all. -Hit bull, win steak 13:36, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete this half hearted neogolism or Move to Deletion Nazis where the Deletionists can really go to town!. --Gavin Collins 13:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment (not even bothering to vote at this point)... Reliable Sources? Check. Non-trivial Coverage? Check. WP:IDONTLIKEIT? Check. 15:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Random832 (talk • contribs)
  • Delete - I'm about as inclusionist as they come, but no. This is little more than a recasting of meta:Deletionism and meta:Deletionist in negative POV terms with a few gratuitous violations of Godwin's Law thrown in. It's an obvious self reference violation, cites 'sources' which are all Wikimedia project pages, blogs, or which don't use the terms they are supposedly supporting, and seems clearly meant to insult members of an opposing philosophy. The last thing we need are snide little articles like; Inclusion Trolls, Fair-use Bandits, BCE Heretics, Rogue Admins, and whatnot else. I'm tempted to speedy delete it as an attack page, but once something gets to AfD it is usually less disruptive to let it play out. That said, it would be a good thing if the involved parties agreed to dump this. --CBD 17:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - A self reference sourced with blogs and more self referencing. Mr.Z-man 18:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, over 30 references, and we shouldn't be afraid of or stifle criticism. I also would not be opposed to revising the article as an essay and maybe toning down the reference to "Nazis," if possible, as while I tend to agree with lots of deletionist efforts, comparisons to "Nazis" are a bit hyperbolic. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
To summarize, of 35 refs - 13 blog links, 2 Slashdot, 2 forums, 14 links to Wikimedia projects, 1 vague reference to a book, 3 New York Times (only 2 articles) that don't mention the topic. Mr.Z-man 21:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment - Regarding #11, The WP article never inferred that the reference discussed "deletion" in particular; WP article used the citation for the term "revert war". Referenced article is about WP's "Anyone Can Edit" policy, and protection policies. Regarding #12, Somebody broke the link - now fixed. Not a blog, an article on MySpace & Misplaced Pages, by Mark Glaser: "Journalist, Critic, Facilitator, New Media Expert". -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚
    • Comment - also, regarding #7, indeed does not mention "gestapo" etc, but discusses the delete wars with specific examples. -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚
      • Number 7 does not describe any such thing. It describes deletion "discussions." The word "war" is not used in the body of the article at all. If anything it suggests deletion discussions are a lot more simple and pleasant (and quite silly) than they actually are. Mr.Z-man 17:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Make it a user or essay page, and change the horrible name which is insensitive. Gestapo is not a humorous name to those that lived then. Deletion police would be acceptable, I think. The article is improvable and the concept notable. Deletion should be the last resort, not the first. — Becksguy 22:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Userify I'm going to assume good faith, but I'm pretty close to classifying this as a WP:POINT violation. --Tango 23:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete or userfy - this is not a notable phenomenon outside of Misplaced Pages. You'd need a lot better sources to argue that it was. delldot talk 23:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Detailed consideration...
This is an interesting one. But it's also fairly self evident on a cursory check, how it goes at AFD. There are several issues:
  1. There is an expression, "Deletion Nazi/s". It is verifiable the expression has been coined or used.
  2. It is a neologism - that is, in simple terms, a slang expression coined for a specialized concept in some pop culture/s. Neologisms are words and terms that have recently been coined, generally do not appear in any dictionary, but may be used widely or within certain communities. Protologisms are neologisms that have not yet caught on widely. (WP:NEO)
  3. Most neologisms do not get articles, and even well known ones are routinely discouraged in favor of wiktionary. There is a guideline on this: WP:NEO.
  4. It is used in typical places pop culture references occur - blogs, self-edited articles such as wiki's, etc. The majority are within Misplaced Pages itself. There appear to be very few serious references outside these. There are policies and guidelines, WP:NOT, WP:V and WP:RS which between them require reliable sources sufficient to make a neutral article.
  5. The term is a form of "slang". That is, a street expression. Not every street expression, slang term, or the link, has an encyclopedia article. There is a policy for that: WP:NOT, and a guideline for notability in general, WP:N.
  6. Also on WP:N and WP:NOT, the expression does not seem to have gained more than tiny coverage. The expression seems mostly to relate to Misplaced Pages and kin and their subcultures at present.
  7. The term is intrinsically non-neutral. There may in theory be scope for an article on a different title, perhaps. But "Deletion Nazi" (disapproving slang for one stereotyped as a deleter) ranks with "Traitorous Democrats" (disapproving slang for one stereotyped as so pro-Democrat they would fail to defend the country) as an intrindically non-neutral term. It contains ingherent viewpoint. There is a policy on that, WP:NPOV. NPOV is "non-negotiable" on Misplaced Pages.
  8. There is also the concern that one should characterize, not re-enact, an article topic. That is, we do not just describe what one is. We show all sides of the argument. If the article were kept, it could not be kept in one-sided form. Sources would be needed that, without original research or synthesis could create a neutral encyclopedic article.

Conclusion.........

  • Delete 1/ WP:NEO is strongly involved here and states neologism articles are strongly discouraged, and "Articles on protologisms are almost always deleted"; 2/ WP:NOT "not an indiscriminate collection of information. Collecting every newly emergent neologism would breach this; 3/ ] and other policies require a certain degree of long term historical perspective, notable usage, etc. This expression is neither well defined (WP:NEO nor widely used. No good evidence has been provided that it has passed into common speech outside its own small circle. 4/ It is cruft (definition: of interest to fans and such only, limited or no general interest). If kept, in addition, WP:NPOV would require at the least a rename. But to my mind, WP:NEO, and then WP:NOT and WP:N, seem fairly conclusive at this time. FT2 23:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment As originator of the article (yes, I take the blame, not necessarily credit), it did pain me to use pejorative (and non-PC!) terms to describe some WP contributors. I didn't coin the terms so please don't shoot the messenger (nobody has, so far, and I thank you). Edits here at WP are, by a vast majority, made in good faith and this Talk page is a stellar example of cooperation, consideration, and an almost total lack of any animosity or "Gestapo-ism". Nevertheless the frustrations of so many contributors (for example, expressed by Adam Megacz) needed to be aired. And, while the article may lean "left" (toward inclusionism) with an attempt at NPOV and showing both sides, this discussion page really leans the other way toward conservatism and deletionism, it seems? Yet, no honest, good faith vote for deletion is taken personally. Thank you all for your comments, inputs, and even some edits and improvements to the article itself. Sincerely. -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ 00:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs)
    • Mainspace is not the place to air the frustrations of contributors unless those frustrations are well documented by reliable secondary sources. Mr.Z-man 01:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
      • The concept, the neologisms, and (yes) the frustrations, are directly relevant to the crux of the article, providing (as many people discussing the concepts here agree) the origin of terms, the processes of discussion and deletion voting, and the reasons people would create such pejorative terms. And, an attempt at "well documented by reliable secondary sources" has been made; however, since the terms themselves and the discussions about deletionism are largely found on blogs and WP talk pages, there is a Catch-22, or a Heisenbergian catch. Here on this page, and other talk pages (both in blogs and on wikis) such discussions and terminologies are aired and invented. Some other references (NYTimes, books, journalists, and others) have been found and cited. "Self-reference" in the article (as some people claim) is unavoidable, if one wants to cite WP policies to describe reasons for deletion and inclusion. -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ 01:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs)
    • Gekritzl - What's this got to do with the article's inclusion? How an article comes to be, doesn't influence whether it has a place (nor should it). Your views on other editors, your feelings, and so on, whatever they are, aren't relevant to AFD. Non-neutral or non-encyclopedic information can easily be fixed. But the problem is, none of the above paragraph actually speaks to any policy-based reason why an article titled "Deletion Nazi's" might be viable. So it's unhelpful here. WP:NEO and other policies referenced were written knowing that neologisms would largely be excluded, and specifically aimed at that effect. FT2 01:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
      • FT2 - Thanks for your comments. The answer is simple: This type of article is unique. It's about blogs and WP talk pages, in essence, so WP policies stating that "citations to blogs" and so forth are not appropriate - are generally not applicable for any article that addresses exactly those forums. WP Policy also offers exceptions in that regard. Also, "non-encyclopedic" is somewhat subjective, and Misplaced Pages:Notability isn't as strict as most deletionists seem to believe. The other point is that it's not just about neologisms, but about social interoperation (whether cooperative or not) within the context of wikis and blogs. -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ 01:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs)
    • PS: Your comment about " views on other editors, feelings, and so on... aren't relevant to AFD" are inappropriate and are bent toward the exact thing that I was claiming did not exist on this talk page: personal attacks, and so forth. My comment that this talk page has been very civil had nothing to do with inclusionism of the article. It was simply a "thank you" to all who commented here, and a statement that votes for deletion are not taken personally. And, thank you, also, FT2, for your contributions. Please give contributors and commentors the benefit of the doubt. -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ 02:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs)
    • "Nevertheless the frustrations of so many contributors (for example, expressed by Adam Megacz) needed to be aired. And, while the article may lean 'left' (toward inclusionism) with an attempt at NPOV and showing both sides, this discussion page really leans the other way toward conservatism and deletionism, it seems?" - Essays and discussions in the Misplaced Pages, User, and/or various Talk namespaces are allowed to express (or 'lean' towards) a POV. Articles in the mainspace are not. The article namespace does not exist for, and cannot allow, 'airing frustrations'. Look at it this way; when you put something in article space it has to speak not for you, but for Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages itself has to be neutral in disputes. It does not 'take sides'. If you want to 'air frustrations' do it in some other namespace - User, Misplaced Pages, and their respective Talk namespaces would all be appropriate... article space is not. --CBD 12:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Well, you state the obvious. The cathartic nature of contributing to Misplaced Pages is only secondary; the content itself is the prime issue. However, without the cathartic feelings it gives, nobody would EVER bother to contribute - there are no other benefits. This is an underlying point of the article. -- GeĸrίtzĿ...•˚ 12:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs)
"Making a point" is not a valid reason for an article to exist either..... FT2 03:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. "Mediashift, "MySpace, Misplaced Pages Cope With Growing Pains"".