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== Did You Know? ==


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|On ], ], ''']''' was updated with a fact from the article ''''']''''', which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the ].
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==James Chichester-Clark==
I have removed the term 'only' in the sentence "only 1,500 troops" for the very reason that you condemned me for, because it is a claim that expresses that the number of troops offered was not high enough.


The quote may very well be a quote, but it is also a subjective analysis of a person's character, it is biased, many people would not describe him as "ever the gentlemen".


Furthermore, it is incorrect to use the postnominals 'MP' if the individual is not currently a sitting MP. The individuals named in the table are deceased and thus are no longer entitled to use the post nominals, that is standard policy in wikipedia.
==Disillusioned==


Perhaps in future if you really disagree with my edits you could discuss them before engaging in a petty edit war? As I did regarding the appropriateness of using noble titles, before conceding. Thankyou! ] (]) 09:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
As you know I have done a great deal of work on Misplaced Pages. I've lost count of the number of hours input I have made, researching information, writing and making serious contributions to a great many articles. But sitting back, I am disheartened by the way personal opinions and so-called 'consensus' (by the 'community' - who are always people other than ourselves) are permitted to override convention and the work of contributors and sometimes destroy it. The argument on how Baronets should be listed is a good example of a nonsense when a correct form is set down by the Crown as ''their right''. We have the obvious anti-British and anti-aristocracy brigade such as ] who use any excuse they can locate to attack such pages, and I am now engaged in another argument with an obvious all but self-proclaimed expert on Scottish medieval history who denounces just about every Victorian historian as frauds and fantasists. So if I give any number of citations from scholars with any number of degrees and academic qualifications after their names but who researched and wrote their books in the 19th or early 20th century they are all instantly denounced as crétins. I just despair and I am thinking its time for a break. I just wanted to explain it to you and to thank you for your support at various times. ] 19:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
::I know how you feel, sometimes I wonder whether a break would be just what I need too! I think we just need to persevere, although one finds it hard when ] is somehow treated like a much-needed editor and constantly afforded special treatment! --] 19:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC) :I suppose you are correct on the MP point. I still disagree with regards to the quote, given that it is referenced by a reliable source. --] (]) 09:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:::May I add my tuppenceworth here?
:::I'm not much familiar with C-R's work, but I am familiar with David's. David has access to very authoritative sources on the articles he edits, and is very conscientious about accuracy: he cross-checks, cites sources, and weighs the evidence. I always have a lot of confidence that I look at David's work, it is of a high standard, and in fact I'd say that David is one of the most precise and conscientious editors I encounter.
:::Unfortunately, though, I don't think that David has yet found a sufficiently effective way of dealing with those who don't hold to those standards, or who approach a subject from a very different perspective. I'm not saying that (for example) Vk's efforts to disrupt or remove content on subjects he disapproves of is justifiable, but that part of the reason he gets drawn into that sort of thing is because David allows himself to get sucked into one side of a polarised debate over avoidable disputes over issues like the terminology to be used in articles on the conflict in Northern Ireland, where a Reuters-style approach of rigorously neutral terminology is the only possible way of approaching a stable version which doesn't offend either of the opposite perspectives.
:::On nobility too, I think it's unfortunate that David is inclined to anchor his position within the perspective of those who support and maintain the structures of nobility, which again leads to disputes with those who despise nobility. The proposal ] failed, and however much some editors regret that, we need to move on within the balance of views as it currently exists on wikipedia. I think that if David could accept, however, regretfully that we don't for now have consensus for taking the notability of nobles as far as he'd like it, that it would be a lot easier to fend off the partisan deletionists who fail to understand that however much they dislike nobility, a significant number of these people did have a significant and notable role. I have noticed many times that no consensus is achievable on many issues in this field because too many editors are unwilling to meet in the middle. It seems to me that a lot of energy which could be directed into improving coverage of the most notable nobles is being dissipated in disputes over the inclusion of rather minor figures, which is both a loss to wikipedia and a source of deep frustration to the editors creating the contested content
:::Anyay, that's just my tuppenceworth. I mean it in as helpful a way as possible, so if it doesn't come across as helpful, please ignore it and accept my apologies. I've only butted in here because I have recently encountered several talented editors of different persuasions who ave given up on wikipedia or are tempted to do so, and I am trying to encourage people to remember that even though they might not achieve all they want, the knowledgeable editors who create wikipedia's most useful content can do some things to minimise their stress levels. Good luck! --] <small>] • (])</small> <small>—The preceding {{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|16:11:14, August 19, 2007}}}}}} | | comment was }} ]{{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|16:11:14, August 19, 2007}}}}}} | | | &#32;comment was added at {{{Date|{{{Time|16:11:14, August 19, 2007}}}}}} (UTC{{{Zone|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}}) }}.</small><!-- {{undated}} --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::I echo what everybody is saying here. I am '''beginning ''' to think maybe, just maybe, wikipedia works - but it is incredibly slow at grinding into action. - ]<small>]</small> 18:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::It'd take a lot before I thought wikipedia 'worked'. This is only a start. ] 10:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


==Hello==


Just back, and a newly blanked page - just like the good old days! Anyway, when you get your mojo back, why not take a look at ]? You might find something that appeals. --] <small>]</small> 10:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC).
==Sockpuppets==


== Dodds ==
I believe ] may be a sockpuppet. Could someone please assist me with what course to follow. --] 16:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


Really? Why?] (]) 13:23, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:See: ]. Be prepared to apologise if you are wrong!--] <small>]</small> 17:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
::I'm not sure who he is a sockpuppet of but Stramash is certainly not a new user. --] 17:57, 21 August 2007 (UTC) :Dodd's is a clever chap, seems much more capable than Robinson (even though he doesn't seem too bad a politician, whatever else he might be!) Thing is, if Dodds were it, I think he could beat the UUP. With Paisley gone, and Robinson in power, Stormont belongs to them once more. Hopefully.--] (]) 13:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::I think you just don't like estate agents!] (]) 17:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::: There is nothing wrong with an experienced Wikipedian choosing a new account to edit with, as long as they are not using it to abuse policy (like to evade a block or ban, or vote stack). If you are concerned you can ask the editor if he or she has edited previously and whether they are willing to tell you their previous account (or ask them to tell an admin privately). It is within their rights to decline, of course. However, unless you have good reason to believe you know who the puppeteer is, and that they are using the new account in an abusive manner, there is little you can do but watch and wait. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 18:17, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Is he an estate agent, hahah, I didn't know that. You're probably right... --] (]) 17:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Look at his shoes: if they're dirty, he's an estate agent. (An infallible test). --] <small>]</small> 09:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


==I missed it==
::::I have replied to your message on my talk page. ] 19:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought ONIH retired? ] (]) 16:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


* I should also like to add ] to my suspicions.--] 14:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


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Hi, I saw some of your comments on the ] talk page and was wondering if you would be interested in commenting on the request move for King ]. - ] (]) 21:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
:Don't suppose you know anyone else who might be interested in commenting. - ] (]) 10:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::I'll try to find a few.--] (]) 11:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


==Nonexistent throne==
==Non-free use disputed for Tynan today==
Would you care to comment ] as you have been the "reverter" with whom I have mainly come into contact = ). Regards --] (]|]|]) 12:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


== Northern Command ==
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|]
==Northern Command==
|This file may be '''deleted'''.
Please stop disrupting this article by adding incorrect information to the lead or removing sourced content, your edits are unconstructive and are rapidly approaching borderline vandalism. ] (]) 22:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

==Northern Irish People redirect==
Come now, that was most certainly not a "minor edit" as you indicated. There is an ongoing discussion on the talk page of that article. Please join us and help to work towards consensus. ] (]) 23:17, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

==Robert Ross Tomb Pics==
Hi, the pics are here:
--] (]) 21:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks. I'm not really sure how to work Wikimedia though.--] (]) 06:36, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

==Political Dweeb's Question==

User: Political Dweeb here wants to ask if User:Counter-revolutionary can look at the question I put on the Conservative Monday Club article's discussion page called Political position? I wanted you to clarify if what I said about the CMC in that question is true or not.

If you do not know do you know of anyone esle who can answer my question.
] (])

==Edward Carson==

Hi, please do not revert me on this again, else I will resort to searching ] with a neutral admin. I have plenty of citations that make both the cat and entry in the article Notable. With kind regards ] (]) 11:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:What are you on about? --] (]) 15:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

==Contacted the administrator==
Hi Counter-revolutionary! Since you reverted me again and I do not wish an edit war, I refrained from reverting you and contacted an administrator on the issue. With kind regards, ] (]) 17:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lord Carson was no more a hurler than I am a cricketer. I have reverted you once, so far as I can see. --] (]) 17:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

==Bolding "sir"==
I was not aware that this had become a de facto convention. I regard it as bizarre in the majority of cases, but there you go. The text you refer me to does not state that "Sir" should be bolded, although it does give an example where it is. I hope that in future you will be able to ] and leave more positive talk page comments.

While I am commenting here, could I ask you to look over ]? At present, you seem to be marking almost every edit as minor, even those which change text - albeit usually a small amount - or could be controversial. The guideline states that a minor edit should be used for "...rearranging of text without modifying content, et cetera. A minor edit is a version that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute". Thanks, ] '']'' 18:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Quid pro quo, very good. ] (]) 19:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lord Faulkner ==

If Lord Faulkner should be listed at ], please add a citation. I see nothing about this in his article. --] (]/]) 17:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

== Michele Renouf ==

Please note that "lady" should not be at the beginning of the article per ] --] (]) 19:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
:Note, lady is '''not''' an honourific title. I'm happy to take you on over this. --] (]) 19:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Senators ==

Never heard of him! Not too bad, keeping busy. Yourself?] (]) 19:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
:You should check with the likes of Bill Henderson, he's almost certain to have known him. If you call party HQ they would give him your number and I'm sure he would call you back.] (]) 19:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

==Vyner Brooke==
9 out of the 17 references are from the 1 website, really it should have a variety of ] ] (]) 08:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

: Also noted you marked your comment on my talk page and removal of a tag as minor. Thought it was not minor? ] (]) 08:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::Hardly major. --] (]) 09:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

== Hely-Hutchinsons ==

I've just created a disambiguation page for ]. As I see you've been involved with a number of the articles about the earls with this name, could I ask you to have a quick look and make sure the descriptions for each are correct. In particular, whether I have correctly described them as Irish, Anglo-Irish or British - obviously this has been a sensitive issue over history, and I don't want to tread on anyone's toes. Many thanks.&nbsp;—&nbsp;]<sub>&nbsp;(]/])</sub> 12:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

==Thoughts==
* I wish to state categorically that I have never ever used David Lauder's computer nor has he ever used mine. ] (]) 10:52, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
:I wish to state categorically that there's checkuser evidence that one or the other has happened, to vote-stack in an ArbCom election. This has been confirmed by multiple checkusers. ] (]) 21:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
::Multiple=two. However there is another possible explanation which makes Fozzie just plain wrong. I have written to an Arbcom checkuser to verify. ] (]) 23:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
:::*Two (2)? You do seem to have some specialised knowledge Berks911, so where you fit in (as you like a mathematical analogy) to the equation. Exactly whose sock are you? As I see it, the main obstacle to Sussexman et al returning is an abject failure to come clean and stop deceiving the community. Perhaps Sussexman is more than one person - who knows? Perhaps, lots of people take a turn at being Lauder/Sussexman/Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. The only thing known for certain is that as long as he/they is banned he is fooling nobody. ] (]) 09:57, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
::::*Two = Alison and Thatcher. David Lauder has agreed that he has known and used Sussexman’s password; that does not make him the same person. Sussexman has retired. Lauder hopes to return and vehemently denies being Sussexman. I assume good faith on his part and Counter-rev’s. As Bonkers put it, I hope Lauder is not being left in limbo by Arbcom. ] (]) 10:28, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::This seems accurate. Giano, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post here again. --] (]) 11:
:::::* I'd like to point out that it was actually significantly more than two checkusers - ] <sup>]</sup> 17:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

==Blocked==
Following the findings of 2 checkuser: ] and ] discussed ], I have concluded that you operated an account now renamed to {{user|Renamed user 20}} to make threats against other users in the name of a living person. This is supported by the technical evidence, similarity in your areas of editing and past conduct, and by the timing of your edits and those that account. Given your previous blocks for sockpuppetry and harassing behaviour, I have decided to block you indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages. You may contest this blocks by placing the template <nowiki>{{unblock|Your reason}}</nowiki> on this page. <span style="font-family:Verdana;">]]</span> 18:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

*'''I''' thought I best give you my side. The accusations against me have come as a complete, and unwelcome, surprise. When the Sussexman/Lauder case arose it was noted I edited other accounts, '''non'''-abusively, and was asked to stop this as a condition of my continuing to edit; I complied with this (as could be seen by a checkuser). Those accounts have since not been used in any way, nor have I edited any other account.
One must ask several questions:
1. Why would I choose the name User:Nick_Corsellis_QC?
2. Why would I risk such trolling knowing full well it could be discovered?
3. When have I ever in the past used crude language, swear words, etc (something I detest) such as "F**k you" and "Me gonna stab you"!?
4. What grudge would I hold against Alison and the other user to make such comments? Further to this I have never even heard of ].
5. Take a look at concerning ] on ]'s page. He says he "knows" who the account belongs to, certainly a bold claim for an account with 2 edits. ] then demands a checkuser, which draws the conclusion that its a "generic British Telecom IP address with no other users on it." I'll be the first one to admit about knowing nothing about IP addresses but I wonder how the checkuser has reached the conclusions it did, given there were "no other users on it." Clearly, however, it has reached this conclusion. This leads me to one of several conclusions;
1. the checkuser system is entirely flawed,
2. the checkusers have "set me up" (I think this is most doubtful and do not advance it as a serious proposal),
3. some other editor(s) have "set me up", I don't know how, but it seems to me a plausible explanation if at all possible.

Finally, on the charges against me it is said:
::*''supported by the technical evidence, similarity in your areas of editing and past conduct, and by the timing of your edits and those that account. Given your previous blocks for sockpuppetry and harassing behaviour''
*To this my reply is:
:*Similarity of areas of editing: there is similarity of only one edit (out of two), ]'s talk page, on which I have never been abusive.
:*Past conduct? I have never used such crude and abusive language on the WP.
:*The timing? From what I can see the timing is within an hour of my edits, not a few seconds.

I attempted to contact Alison regarding her initial enigmatic message on my talk page but to no avail. I assure you that this account has ''nothing'' to do with me.
Best wishes,
] (]) 07:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC).

: Counter-rev. I've had email from one respected admin that I need to check over. Also, one from you. I'm actually somewhat on break right now but I will address this further tomorrow. I'll likely email you about it tomorrow, my time, and will give this whatever time is needed to see it to conclusion, whatever that may be. Bear in mind that during the Lauder/Sussexman case, I was campaigning ''against'' your indefinite block. There was also the matter of other accounts under your IP that I never talked about. And they were legitimate other editors on your computer, and not abusive socks (right?) More tomorrow, but you have my word that I will be as fair and as honest as I can possible be, and I trust you will be likewise - ] <sup>]</sup> 07:37, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
::Many thanks, I appreciate your reply, there is no rush as I don't have a great deal of time to devote to this either. You have my word that the abusive user (N.C.QC) has ''nothing'' to do with me. --] (]) 07:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
::: Noted. Let's try sort this out tomorrow. I have some questions relating to private information I need to ask, hence it will not be on-wiki. It's 1am here, so I have to sleep. Talk to you tomorrow - ] <sup>]</sup> 07:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

::::May I suggest that ''a completely uninvolved'' Admin deals with any appeal in this case? Frankly, ], you're already involved heavily in ] and ], and you're the one who has come up with this rather unusual-looking check-user. I really do think that it would be best for all concerned if someone completely neutral dealt with it. ] <small>]</small> 13:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::IMO Alison is as good if not better Admin to deal with this than any other. I have every faith that she is impartial, also from what I have seen of CR the posts don't seem to be the type of comments that they would leave on another users page. Me and CR have very different views on a lot if not all articles we edit, but I feel it is unhelpful to start calling for ''completely uninvolved'' admins to deal with it as it gives the impression that Alison is in some way biased. Also Bonkers what is a ''rather unusual-looking check-user''? <strong>]</strong>] 16:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Unless I am completely misunderstanding Dunc, I'm delighted to see what he says, and completely agree. The offending comments do not strike me as anything CR would say. It would be utterly out of character. Unlike Dunc however, I have very similar views to CR, and I would imagine have a much more agreeable relationship!] (]) 17:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

In answer, I'd simply refer you to the article on ]. There's something particularly disturbing to me about issuing a block without giving the subject any notice or allowing him to make any representations. The evidence, so far as I understand it, seems to be entirely ] and is based on Counter-revolutionary and the vandal operating in the same broad geographical area, on the one hand, and the vandal operating when C-R was off-line, on the other. That latter point is completely spurious; had they operated at the same time, that would also, no doubt, be taken as evidence to link the two cases. Personally, I wouldn't describe this as a 'likely' case of sock-puppetry, as ] has; I'd describe it as a 'theoretical possibility', but I daresay that there isn't a pretty tag for that! I response to ], I have never said that Alison was biased; what I do say is that it would be sensible for any appearance of bias to be avoided: it's entirely a matter for her. ] <small>]</small> 08:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
: Bonkers, in all seriousness, this isn't helping matters at all. My goal here is to determine the truth, and I'd like to also point out that two checkusers have now commented on this case and have basically concurred. If you need a neutral, third opinion, it will have to be a ''checkuser'' opinion, as nobody else is privy to the checkuser data. In the meantime, I'll try to resolve this issue with CR in email - ] <sup>]</sup> 08:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

C-r. This ] woman is totally implacable and hard. The funny thing is that her face looks really kind. ] (]) 16:24, 12 July 2008 (UTC) oh no!, I mean ] (]) 16:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC). Sod it!, I mean ] (]) 16:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: ], personalised commentary aside, you're not totally ]. I kicked the above case up to ArbCom myself as I had privacy concerns regarding one of the accounts mentioned. You know which one, and you know what the connection is between all these socks, Isabela84 and yourself. So please - spare us the ironic humour - ] <sup>]</sup> 17:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

''Alison. You say "you're not totally innocent in all this". What do you mean by that?. Are you suggesting that I am one of the Sussexman group of editors?. best wishes. Bob'' ] (]) 18:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: Answering that question would be an unnecessary invasion of your privacy, and Isabella's. That's why I refused to run the checkuser. Please request clarification from ArbCom. You know your connection here - ] <sup>]</sup> 19:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
::*I strongly suggest Alison that you drop this conversation, and leave them having verbal intercourse with themselves. ] (]) 20:18, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

''Alison. Given that I display my name, address and telephone number on my user page - how could any answer from you invade my privacy?. Giano. Who is "them" and "themselves"?. best wishes. Bob'' ] (]) 21:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
:I'd recommend blocking this talk-page, as was done with ''David Lauder'' Userpage. ] (]) 00:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:: Good idea. Every opportunity has already been provided at this stage and the Arbitration Committee have been made fully aware of the situation. Counter-rev. - you still have the opportunity to email the Arbitration Committee directly. I'm also aware that you're petitioning various others, so you still have many avenues open to you - ] <sup>]</sup> 06:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Order promotions and post-nominals ==

Hello. Please don't add a lower grade post-nominal after a higher one, i.e. . The two '''are''' mutually exclusive in the sense that the lower grade (in this case OBE) does not appear after a higher one (in this case DBE). Thanks ] (]) 14:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:No chance of that happening again - for a while (see above)! --] (]) 17:13, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
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==Unblock==
{{unblock reviewed | 1=Reasons: Abusing multiple accounts denied; threatening behaviour denied (and unlikely givern editor's editing patterns); the block was not appropriate in the first place, was excessive and is not in any event any longer serving a purpose; natural justice; time served | accept=Per discussion with the blocking admin / there are questions over the connection between the vandalizing account and C-R / the Lauder affair is very much over and had previously been dealt with by ArbCom / editor was never formally community-banned / editor is not, and to my knowledge has never been, engaging in sock-puppeteering in the interim / two and a half years is more than enough / also applying ] here / block can be re-applied by other admins if necessary after unblocking ] <sup>]</sup> 20:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)}}
I'm confused, ]. This block is more than two years old- has this user contacted you to request unblock? -]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> (] · ])</span> 01:54, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes. ] ] 02:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Can we hear this from Counter-revolutionary? Perhaps in conjunction with a rebuttal, rather than just a denial, of the allegations? ] &#124; ] 02:16, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::How does he rebut it? What can he do? ] ] 02:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Speaking for himself would be a start, followed by some attempt to counter whatever evidence was used to impose the block. ] &#124; ] 02:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::He can't counter checkuser "likely" with evidence. He is not a computer geek and doesnt know how ip addresses work. He has said (above)
<blockquote> * I thought I best give you my side. The accusations against me have come as a complete, and unwelcome, surprise. When the Sussexman/Lauder case arose it was noted I edited other accounts, non-abusively, and was asked to stop this as a condition of my continuing to edit; I complied with this (as could be seen by a checkuser). Those accounts have since not been used in any way, nor have I edited any other account.

One must ask several questions: 1. Why would I choose the name User:Nick_Corsellis_QC? 2. Why would I risk such trolling knowing full well it could be discovered? 3. When have I ever in the past used crude language, swear words, etc (something I detest) such as "F**k you" and "Me gonna stab you"!? 4. What grudge would I hold against Alison and the other user to make such comments? Further to this I have never even heard of User:Centrx. 5. Take a look at User:Giano II's post concerning User:Nick_Crosellis_QC on User:Alison's page. He says he "knows" who the account belongs to, certainly a bold claim for an account with 2 edits. User: Giano II then demands a checkuser, which draws the conclusion that its a "generic British Telecom IP address with no other users on it." I'll be the first one to admit about knowing nothing about IP addresses but I wonder how the checkuser has reached the conclusions it did, given there were "no other users on it." Clearly, however, it has reached this conclusion. This leads me to one of several conclusions; 1. the checkuser system is entirely flawed, 2. the checkusers have "set me up" (I think this is most doubtful and do not advance it as a serious proposal), 3. some other editor(s) have "set me up", I don't know how, but it seems to me a plausible explanation if at all possible.
Finally, on the charges against me it is said:
* supported by the technical evidence, similarity in your areas of editing and past conduct, and by the timing of your edits and those that account. Given your previous blocks for sockpuppetry and harassing behaviour
* To this my reply is:
* Similarity of areas of editing: there is similarity of only one edit (out of two), User:Alison's talk page, on which I have never been abusive.
* Past conduct? I have never used such crude and abusive language on the WP.
* The timing? From what I can see the timing is within an hour of my edits, not a few seconds.
I assure you that this account has nothing to do with me.</blockquote>
:::::Is more needed? What? Why?

* Admins - let's not ''decline'' this too quickly, please? I'd like to address this in depth, myself. I have a lot of technical data from when the Lauder checkuser was run & I know exactly what part Counter-rev played in all that. However, I've never yet heard from C-R on how he could explain certain matters. On the Corsellis issue above, my leaning may be somewhat towards option 3. - I've seen it happen before & it's really not C-R's style - but right now, my main concern lies with what happened over the Lauder incident and how a significant number of accounts all voted from the same IP to attempt to bring down Giano's ArbCom attempt, back in the day. On the whole, I'm not opposed to unblock - not at all - but there ''are'' unanswered questions. I'd also like to hear from ], the blocking admin. It's been over two years ago now ....

*

- ] <sup>]</sup> 07:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

* I've been in contact via e-mail with User:Carcharoth regarding the unblock, I understood he was liaising with the relevant committee. In the wake of the Lauder/Sussexman debacle, it was decided I could continue to edit. From what I can remember, I was blocked following a comment made on Alison's page, which was somehow attributed to me. I did not write this and have no idea about the circumstances in which it was written; it it wholly unconnected to me, Given that years have now passed, I'd be grateful if I could edit once more. Thanks. --] (]) 08:33, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
** Can I just also point out that, to my knowledge, C-R has never actually been formally ''banned'' from WP, and that a block, though indefinite, does not necessarily imply ''infinite'' - ] <sup>]</sup> 09:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Alison, as I understand it the Sussexman/Lauder issue was dealt with previously and the result was that I was allowed to continue editing. As I see it, I was blocked solely on the basis of the remark made on your user page by Corsellis. This was not me. ] (]) 10:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Okay, if ArbCom clarify that with you (FloNight should certainly know, as will Fozzie) then that's great. I know you had been editing since the Lauder debacle, then the Corsellis edits occurred. If we're just down to the Corsellis edits, given that over two years have elapsed, I'm sure ''something'' can be sorted. Don't want to pre-emp ArbCom or anything, but .... - ] <sup>]</sup> 11:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
A return of this editor would not be condusive to the well being of the project. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 11:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
: I have absolutely no insight into the Lauder/Sussexman debacle, or the technical evidence, but I would support the argument that it is extremely illogical, from a behavioural point of view, that Counter-revolutionary would be responsible for the ''renamed user'' edits. If these are the only basis for the continuing block then I would support a, perhaps conditional, unblock. If there are other confounding issues relating to Lauder/Sussexman sockpuppetry, I would suggest an appeal to ArbCom. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 13:23, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

::Really bad call . --<span style="font-family:Celtic;">]'']''</span> 14:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I acknowledge all of that, Dormer48, but the block was for an unrelated incident, which I deny. --] (]) 14:11, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::"''Considering the level of abuse here, including canvassing, logged out editing, and legal threats, I see no reason to be coy about accounts that currently appear to be well-behaved but are obviously the same individual. Thatcher 12:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)''" The CU came back as:

{{confirmed}}
#{{Userlinks|Sussexman}}
#{{Userlinks|Chelsea Tory}}
#{{Userlinks|David Lauder}}
#{{userlinks|Counter-revolutionary}}
#{{userlinks|Christchurch}}
#{{userlinks|Immanuel can't}}

::::What more could I add. --<span style="font-family:Celtic;">]'']''</span> 14:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::You're correct, you cannot add anything. This is all widely know, agreed and acknowledged; the action taken on foot of this was, however, that I could continue to edit. I was blocked for an unrelated incident. ] (]) 14:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Your conduct which preceded the block, justified it. Your previous conduct, "Considering the level of abuse" and the reason for your block cannot be considered to be an "unrelated incident."--<span style="font-family:Celtic;">]'']''</span> 15:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::No. Those accounts are three people, Domer. 1. Sussexman 2 CounterRev 3 The rest. 2 years + have now passed. ] ] 15:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Not . --<span style="font-family:Celtic;">]'']''</span> 15:23, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

:Thia account most certainly should not be unblocked. ] (]) 15:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

::Kittybrewster is saying CR isn't Sussexman, perhaps they could explain this ? where she states the the unblock request from Sussexman came from the exact same IP address and the exact same computer as an edit by CR 7 minutes later, and that is just "''one tiny example''" and there are "''many, many more''". Another issue needing explanation is FloNight's post at 21:08, 9 July 2008 saying "''The independent checkuser that I did in April showed similar patterns to the one Alison describes. Another arbitrator reviewed account contributions on specific dates and saw obvious links WITHOUT checkuser evidence. These accounts have been looked at independently repeatedly and every time the same conclusion, these accounts are linked and have been used abusively. With each review the evidence of a link gets stronger''" --<span style="font-family:Celtic;">]'']''</span> 16:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The explanation is that sussexman and counter both gave their passwords to David Lauder. The point is 1 this was over two years ago and 2 that Alison recognises that the abuse by Counter rev was minimal. ] ] 16:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Sock puppetry was committed & that's unacceptable. It's very difficult to AGF in such situations. ] (]) 16:39, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Suck it and see. AGF. ] ] 16:44, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Good day, Good Day and welcome to the fray! I understand your concern regarding the multiple accounts, etc. however, following the discovery of this I was not blocked - it was decided that I could continue editing (whereas David Lauder, etc. were blocked). I continued editing until a user made some rude comments on Alison's page. Somehow, it was concluded that this was me. It was not. In any event, it has been two years since this event. ] (]) 16:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Having the same IP, rather clarifies who's who. ] (]) 16:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::So does having a different IP on 99.9% of occasions. ] ] 17:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::My advice (though not good advice) to the individual using this indef-blocked account, is to evade the block with a new account (''but only 1'' new account) & dissassociate him/herself from his/herself's Wiki past. ] (]) 17:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
I really do not know if an unblock here is appropriate; I would be happy to accept ]'s advice either way, were she to give it. I would point out, as you may well know, that creating a new account may well be defined as block evasion, which would be seriously counter-productive if discovered.--]] 17:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:Like I said, my advice on this, isn't the best to follow. ] (]) 18:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

For my part, I do think that a natural justice appeal is worthy of consideration. After two years what is being achieved by continuing the block? It is also with asking, if this guy is a serial and disruptive sock-puppeteer, why is he not just setting up a new account and being disruptive? Anyway, give the guy a break and see what happens. Also, C-R, drop me an email, been a long time.] (]) 21:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:A good question, and perhaps I might pose it differently. Why not start up a new account, disassociate from the negative elements tainting this one, and edit constructively? I can think of only one good reason, that is if the editor intends to contribute in the same area's and the same manner as this one and does not wish to have claims of sock/meatpuppetry made when the two are linked. This would be legitimate, except that there are elements of partisanship and disruptive behaviour in this editing area. This is clearly evidenced by the editors, generally, commentating here for anyone with even a passing knowledge of these issues. Personally, I cannot see how the area might be improved by the return of this editor. I oppose an unblock. ] (]) 23:46, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Well, part of the reason there may be opposing editors stacking up here is that very reason of editing in a contentious area. It's not so much 'disruptive editing' as 'having the wrong POV'. Jes' sayin' .. - ] <sup>]</sup> 23:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The person behind the account-in-question, was dishonest with the community, by not admitting he/she had multiple accounts. He/she gets a thumbs down from me. ] (]) 06:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I do not deny I used multiple accounts. I deny I wrote the comment in question on Alison's page. I'm happy to use a new account, but would wish to make edits to areas which I edited in the past, albeit to a lesser extent. ] (]) 08:22, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::At the time, when you used them, you didn't make it known. ] (]) 16:35, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Despite Alison's ] on editors reasons for commenting here, the fact remains and she ignores is that this editor is a confirmed sock abusing and disruptive editor. That Kittybrewster offers a ridiculous explanation for the socking, and CR feels that the block was uncalled for shows a level of disassociation from realty that is astounding. --<span style="font-family:Celtic;">]'']''</span> 17:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::In the aftermath of the sock-puppeteering I was allowed to continue editing. The block was due to a one comment made on Alison's page. I have attempted to assure you that this was not made by me; Alison seems to be of this opinion herself. In any event, this occurred two years ago. Surely one should be able to return to Misplaced Pages and continue editing during good behaviour. I would imagine this would be preferable to, as you've suggested, starting a new account and evading the block. ] (]) 17:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::After over six years in dealing with Troubles issues on here, Domer, ] can only take you so far :/ - ] <sup>]</sup> 18:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Ok, to clarify further; C-R was proven to have colluded with David Lauder and co., about two years ago. While technically not a 'sock', per se, he gave access to his account to the LauderHorde and they used it to try to sink Giano's ArbCom bid. That much has been established, C-R has already copped to it and ArbCom are fully aware of it. '''Subsequent to this''', C-R was allowed to go back to editing and that was that. It was a pretty heinous thing to do & nobody denies that. I'm sure C-R even sees this now.

However, that's done and dusted. ''This block'' relates to an account that made a total of ever. The main issue re. this account was not the edits, but its original name in which it abused the name of a prominent barrister. I think even you'll agree, Domer, that the edits made were so out of character for C-R as to cast serious doubt on the claim that it was him. Frankly, and I've said this already, it looks like a classic ] or setup. Even that notwithstanding, two and a half years for a block is more than enough, IMO - ] <sup>]</sup> 18:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:I will oppose the unblocking of this account. If the community 'however' decides to allow its unblocking, then so be it. I recommend that a proposal of 'unblocking' be put to the community. ] (]) 18:16, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Given that C-R has never been formally banned, I don't see a need for a long-winded, drama-fueled community proposal. That's not how unblocks are done. In fact, I'm going to followup with the blocking admin & request his opinion on the matter - ] <sup>]</sup> 18:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If the account is unblocked without community input, there's not much I can do about it. ] (]) 19:09, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Indef blocks mean "No fixed duration", they do '''not''', and should not mean forever - ] - unless the editor just wants to vandalise, in which case the block is always quickly re-applied - such unblocked editors are often added to the watch list of many others. ''']'''<sup>]</sup> 23:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unblocked ==

Hi Counter-revolutionary. Per discussion with the blocking admin, and per checkuser, you are now unblocked. You've been around here long enough now and know the rules, so I'll not go into a long rant here. Just please treat others, on ''all'' sides, with kindness and respect and everything will be fine. Be aware too, that some of the articles come under the auspices of the Troubles ArbCom sanctions and may be subject to 1RR rules, etc. Please read the unblock notice carefully, too.

Either way - trusting you a bit here. Best wishes & welcome back to Misplaced Pages - ] <sup>]</sup> 21:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks, Alison. ] (]) 10:22, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

== Welcome back ==

Drop me an email if you get a chance.] (]) 14:52, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==]==
Fine, but Shane was an apparently self-chosen nickname. It is not appropriate to refer to him as "Sir Shane". He was Sir John Leslie, but not Sir Shane Leslie, I would think. ] (]) 14:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:: P.S. Welcome back. ] (]) 14:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Autopatrolled ==

]
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== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diplomacy'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Monarchism. ] (]) 00:02, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
|}

== ] of ] ==
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==]==
Hi, Counter-revolutionary! I'm looking through some images on Misplaced Pages, and noted that you claim to be the copyright holder on that image. I was wondering if you could elucidate? It looks like it's a newspaper scan... is it from a pamphlet you published? Hopefully you can clear up the confusion regarding its source and authorship. Thanks for your time, ] (]) 16:11, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

== Possibly unfree File:ML 1975.jpg ==
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== Ken Maginness ==
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Don't edit war at ] mate. I know you're right and I've told Gavin you're right. That article is related to ] and as such is under a ] sanction which means you can only make one revert in any 24 hour period. So don't be tempted to go back there and revert Gavin again because that would make you both guilty of edit warring. I'll get him to self revert, which is the correct thing to do in this case. ] (]) 16:54, 22 August 2013 (UTC)


:I've searched for an answer and most pages including the Collins dictionary insist the title should be used for Barons, see here . I have found a UK government archive though here which agrees with you. If you do a page search for Baron or Peers you will get to a section called "Peers" which explains it this way, "Peers - There are five ranks or degrees in the Peerage. These are in descending order of dignity: dukes, marquesses, earls, viscounts and barons. "The Right Honourable" should be applied only where the peer is a member of the Privy Council." So you may be right. I've also posted this guidance to Gavin's talk page. I hope it helps you sort it out. ] (]) 12:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
:Fixed Ty's mistake. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 00:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
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== Nick and Gatsby ==
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When they first meet at Gatsby's party, Gatsby establishes that they were in the same general area at the same time during WWI. Gatsby says something along the lines of "I thought your face looked familiar." I haven't checked the wording in the article, I just read your edit summary, and since I'm at work I don't have the book sitting next to me on my desk (like I do at home), but the article could probably be clearer on the point. But Gatsby at least establishes some sort of a connection with Nick, which is kind of important as he wants Nick to trust him, immediately. There's been a theory proposed that Gatsby knows exactly who Nick is, that Gatsby was instrumental in securing Nick living next door to him -- if you recall, Nick says that his house was "a steal at $80 a month" -- and that Gatsby wanted him living next to him because of his connection to Daisy. I've never seen that in print anywhere, it may have been an invention of my high school English teacher, so it's not in the article. But he definitely establishes the WWI connection. I'm probably going to remove the <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> tag without actually citing it, as it seems silly to have one reference in the middle of the plot summary. &mdash; &nbsp;]]] 20:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::I would imagine Gatsby knows exactly who Nick is in order to set up a meeting with Daisy, knowing full well N is Daisy's cousin - that's just my conjecture taking account of the situation. I really have no recollection of the familiarity from the war comments, and I know the book reasonably well. I shall, however, take a look report back. Thankfully it can be resolved fairly easily! --] 20:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


==Orphaned non-free image File:Rockport school.png==
:::I meant to check the book last night and forgot. But, if you recall, the revelation that Gatsby knows Daisy went through ''Jordan'' to Nick. I think, maybe, the idea that G knows who N is beforehand sort of falls apart in that light. But then Nick asks Jordan "Why didn't he just ask me himself?" and she says something along the lines that he had waited this long and he didn't want to impose. Maybe he did know who Nick was. Oh, well. Unfortunately, emailing the author is a little difficult....
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:::Anyway, I will check the book tonight. I'm thinking it's in Chapter 2. Or 3. Fitz transposed the two in the galleys and I always get them confused.... &mdash; &nbsp;]]] 19:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I haven't checked either and have flicked through too many books of late! I really have ''no'' recollection of them mentioning knowing each other before, in the army. Anyway, let me know how it comes along. --] 20:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::Well, it looks like someone . I'll look it up, anyway, to clean up the writing. &mdash; &nbsp;]]] 22:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::"Your face is familiar," said politely. "Weren't you in the Third Division during the war?"
::::::"Why, yes. I was in the Ninth Machine-Gun Battalion."
::::::"I was in the Seventh Infantry until June nineteen-eighteen. I knew I'd seen you somewhere before."
::::::I'm going to fix the writing. &mdash; &nbsp;]]] 23:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
::::How odd, I really have no memory of that! Thanks for getting it sorted. --] 17:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


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==Templates hint==


== Notification of automated file description generation ==
No reason I'm choosing you in particular to tell you this, but regarding last month, remember: ''when you move a page, <u>be sure</u> to modify the templates on that page accordingly'', else the subject's name won't turn black (as it didn't on that page for a whole month). I'm not angry, but I have seen this countless times and I thought I'd share this little insight with someone. Thank you for reading. ] 06:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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Oh, and I see you did the same with Brian Faulkner. Naughty... ] 06:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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::Righto, I'm afraid I've no idea what you mean by templates though! --] 09:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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:::Let's take ] as an example. Go to the very bottom of the page. See the two boxes labelled "Leaders of The Ulster Unionist Party" and "Prime Ministers of Northern Ireland, 1922-1972"? Those are templates. For them to work properly, they need to link ''exactly'' to the article in which they're placed, ie no redirects. That's why page moves should be accompanied by appropriate template modification. ] 18:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


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== Can you fix tables? ==
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] I'm a bit crap at it] 09:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've had a go and, apparently, the answer's no!--] 09:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


== Clarification motion ==
== Lord Nicholas Hervey ==


A case (]) in which you were involved has been modified by {{oldid2|631252824|Motion|motion}} which changed the wording of the ] to clarify that the scope applies to pages, not just articles. For the arbitration committee --]] 21:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Would you care to comment on the issues of substance currently under debate in the ] page? You will need to read all of the section, now unfortunately rather lengthy, as I have had to try hard to understand the other person's points and disentangle the prose. Your constructive criticism would be appreciated. ] 18:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
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==NI Infobox idea==
I'd like to invite you to comment on my thoughts behind a specific set of NI infoboxes. I'm just mulling the idea over on my ]. Thanks. --] 13:02, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


== ] ==
== moving the warning -- preview ==


{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 13:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have posted this here on 23 Sept, not on ], re your (welcome) photo additions.
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== File:Roxborough Castle.jpg listed for discussion ==
] 21:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
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::Righto, yes, I've started using the preview button. --] 21:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
== File:TynanAbbey.jpg listed for discussion ==
:::Will you still consider posting a different picture? <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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]
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==Your new User page==
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Ha, ha! What about 'Ophelia' though? And the poem? I hope they're coming back ''when the hurly-burly's done, when the battle's lost and won''? My experience of Misplaced Pages: 'inadequates arguing about inconsequentialities'. And it goes without saying that I was very disappointed at my own review; a bit more imagination would have spiced it up considerably. --] <small>]</small> 11:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


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:Please take to determine your exact super-identity. (Unfortunately, the results come out as American - we need someone to anglicise it - ], ] (and ]), the ], ], ], ], and, of course, ] would be more in keeping with anglo-saxon sensibilities I feel.)--] <small>]</small> 12:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
==Orphaned non-free image File:Brookeborough1.jpg==
::I came out as Spider-man first (75%) (rather generic) and some chap called Green Lantern (70%). We'd need Rumpole of the Bailey in there too, of course! --] 13:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
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:::No, '''I am Spiderman''' (I took the quiz yesterday)! ] is pretty non-specific (there seem to have been about 3 different versions, from my skim-read), but the nearest British equivalent is (hmmm...) ]? Now at least you have a proper citation to refute the claim of being either Batman or Robin!--] <small>]</small> 15:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Oh, yes, haha! I must add that! --] 15:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
::Well, I never thought of Wiki as somewhere to have a laugh but the discussion here is a hoot; as are the comments on your new User Page. Bit of a p***-take but most deserving. Regards, ] 19:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


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==The Batman and Robin image==
Hey, just a heads up.. per the previous time that a copyrighted image was placed on your user page, I have removed it.. it's not allowed on user pages.. ] 18:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
::Oh, right, thanks. I never was much of an IP man! --] 18:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
:::If you're on the lookout for novel and exciting pictures, might I suggest a visit to the ] page...?--] <small>]</small> 22:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::Eh...right. --] 23:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::Actually, I was thinking instead of Batman and Robin, Roundhead and Cavalier ('the foreskinned crusader').


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::::::(This thought is dedicated to the employees of HM Customs and Revenue, in whose generous company I whiled away a pleasant four hours at Dover docks yesterday afternoon).--] <small>]</small> 10:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
]
:::::::Sorry, I'm clearly lost...which won't help Giano's feckless image of me! ha! What brought you to the north of France in October? --] 10:57, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
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==Milne Barbour, bt.==
What is your source for the Deputy prime minister, as far as I can tell he wasn't and I don't think the position existed at all. he was a member of the NI privy council 1925.--] 20:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
::Hmmm, I don't know! I'm sure I read it somewhere, and I'm quite positive the position existed at a time, even if he didn't hold it... --] 20:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


== Replaceable fair use File:BrianF.jpg ==
:It didn't the role of ] didn't exist either under the Government of Ireland Act, and was an assumed title for the head of the Executive Committee.==] 20:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
]
::Right, I believe I read Dep. PM was later combined with Minister in the Senate? I may be hugely wrong...! --] 20:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
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These are the positions he held
# On ], write a full explanation of why you believe the file is not replaceable.
*He was High Sheriff of County Armagh in 1905 and of County Down in 1907.
* President of Belfast Harbour Commissioners 1914 - 1950.
* President of the Northern Ireland Scout Council.
* President of the Royal Victoria Hospital, Belfast.
* President of the Royal Ulster Agricultural Society 1925-1930 and from 1931 until his death in 1951
* Member of the Senate of Queens University, Belfast.
* Parliamentary and Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance 7th June 1921 - 22nd April 1937.
* Minster of Commerce 16th April 1925 - 16th January 1941.
* Privy Council of Northern Ireland 1925.
* Minister of Finance 16th January 1941 - 6th May 1943.
* Member of the General Synod of the Church of Ireland. --] 20:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
:::You will find very few references to Deputy Prime Minister outside of press articles around the time. The title was made up by the Prime Minister of the day, usually to buy political cover availaible from the holder. Jack Andrews was Dep PM under JDCC, mainly as he had been up for the top job twice and either didn't get it or turned it down. I think Faulkner was given it under TMO'N, mainly to buy him off for a while. Minister for Finance was usually much more important though.] 12:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::Thanks. I was fairly sure it existed! --] 12:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


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==Brookes==
That is taken direct from the book, and the book reference was given by me in the article, the book itself references the quote to House of Commons debates, Vol. 134, Col 925-7, 8 Nov. 190.--] 23:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
::There is no such volume of the NIHOC Hansard as 134. Vol 34 column 925 is May 1950 and the speaker is not Brooke.] 11:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


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:::Your Right I looked at the notes on the wrong chapter by mistake, it was taken from 'Farrell (1976), 90' which is 'Northern Ireland: the Orange state, London 1976'.--] 11:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
== ] of ] ==
::::Which is not a particularly reliable reference. Brooke did make this statement, but a better source would be good, for example Patterson. The article also needs to be expanded - including this quote without a proper exploration of what the man was really like in Government (the various education acts, for which he was ordered to explain himself to Grand Lodge, for example) leaves it totally one sided and historically inaccurate portrayal of the man. As I say, Henry Patterson's book is excellent on these matters.] 12:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
]
:::::I'm working on an expansion. This should be a very comprehensive article. --] 12:07, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::If you take a look at what I emailed you a few weeks ago, there are a few bits and pieces about the end of his career in there, but what I reference is all pretty good for that period, particularly O'Neill's memoirs (although there are some inaccuracies in there) and Patterson's book. Even Faulkner's memoirs are of some use.] 12:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
: My apologies,the quote made it look like he directly said it, I understand now this was commentary on his quote.--] 23:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
::There's actually two different quotes in a similar vein that seem to get lumped together, I'm hunting down sources and I'll post on the talk page with my discoveries, and we can go forward from there. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 00:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


The file ] has been ]&#32;because of the following concern:
I found another source for it in 'Divided Ulster by Liam de Paor 1977 edition p105/6 ISBN 0-1402-1369-4 which has it dated to 13th July 1933:
<blockquote>unused, low-res, no obvious use</blockquote>
:''There are a great number of Protestants and Orangemen who employ Roman Catholics. I feel I can speak freely on this subject as I have not a Roman Catholic about my own place.... I would appeal to Loyalists, therefore, whenever possible to employ good Protestant Lads and Lassies''


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:Refering back to this statement in March 1934, he said:
:''Thinking out the whole question carefully...I recommend those people who are Loyalists not to employ Roman Catholics, ninety-nine per cent of whom are disloyal...I want you to remember one point in regard to the employment of people who are disloyal. There are often difficulties in the way, but usually there are plenty of good men and women available and the employers don't bother to employ them. You are disfranchising yourselfs in that way. You people who are employers have the ball at your feet. If you don't act properly now, before we know where we are we shall find ourselves in the minority instead of the majority.''


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The first quote was cited as the Fermanagh Times, 13th July 1933, and the second one to the Londonderry Sentinel, 20th March 1934.--] 12:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


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== WP:Unionism ==


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I think it needs 10 signatories.] 15:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
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:You only need 7-10 signatories for this.--] 16:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
<blockquote>unused, low-res, no obvious use</blockquote>


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== Anglicization of European royal names ==


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My ''personal'' view on the matter is that all names ought to be anglicized as royalty is a continent-wide social class that frequently transcends or transcended cultural and ethnic borders, especially where one family ruled over a number of territories (for instance, the Archhouse of Austria ruling over Hungary, Bohemia, Austria, etc). To me, we are going to have kings Frederick and Philip of Denmark and Spain, respectively, and not Frederik and Felipe. My ''Wikiview'' on the matter though is that anglicizations should be used in all cases except where there is overwhelming and consistent usage of an ethnic variant. It seems to me though that Germanic names at least should always be anglicized because the English language seems to lean in that direction, whereas it has always been "kinder" to names from the romance languages (although I am of the thought that we will have William VI of Luxembourg and not Guillaume). Shame to think though that the English language is attacked by all sorts of ethnophiles. I essentially have the same thoughts about monstrous, mixed-language constructions such as "Brunswick-Lüneburg" and "Hesse-Kassel". ] 21:17, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


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== Vandalism ==


<span style="color:red;font-weight:bold;">This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the ] of each individual file for details.</span> Thanks, ] (]) 01:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
] may be of interest to you.] 15:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


== Leka Zogu I ==
== ] closed ==


Hello, you edited ] to remove information about Leka having attended Phillips Academy, stating that he instead studied at ]. Could you please provide a source to this claim. Charles Fenyvesi's book ''Splendor in Exile'', which I have in front of me, states the following:
The above named Arbitration case has closed. The Arbitration Committee decided that ''ny user who hereafter engages in edit-warring or disruptive editing on these or related articles may be placed on ] by any uninvolved administrator. This may include any user who was a party to this case, or any other user after a warning has been given''. The Committee also decided to uplift Vintagekits' indefinite block at the same time.


"Leka had gone to high school in Alexandria, Egypt, and at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts. He had studied economics at the University of Geneva in Switzerland at the Sorbonne, and had attended the British military academy Sandhurst." (page 235)
The full decision can be viewed ].


For the Arbitration Committee, ''']''' 08:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC) Thank you in advance. ] (]) 16:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)


:That's simply not right. Jason Tomes' book, at p 282, states 'Prince Leka...had completed his schooling in Switzerland...'. Further, the Zogu family's own website (https://albanianroyalcourt.al/leka-i-king-of-the-albanians/) says so: "After the war King Zog, Queen Geraldine and Prince Leka moved to Egypt, where they lived at the behest of King Farouk I. Leka was educated at Parmoor House. In 1946 he attended the British Boys School, where he continued until 1954. In Alexandria, Egypt, he attended Victoria College and then went to Aiglon College, Villars-sur-Ollon, Switzerland, where he graduated in 1956." Countless results on Google reveal Aiglon college as his school, including school photographs! I have never before heard this nonsense about him attending Phillips Academy, Mass. ] (]) 09:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
==Common crap==
==Orphaned non-free image File:Lady Katherine Crichton.jpg==
] Thanks for uploading ''']'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a ]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see ]).


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You may not have noticed that all over Misplaced Pages BC and AD are being replaced with the atheistic and communist term ''']'''. What is your view on this disgraceful bias? ] 08:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:Quite agree. Absolute crap. It's quite ridiculous to use terms which are meaningless in order to appease political scum. Is this now a general policy? Next they'll abolish '''£''' signs I suppose! --] 09:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::Rather like Chair instead of Chairman. - ] ] 10:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Yes, there's too many of this sort of thing in life. --] 12:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: I see that this conversation is ongoing at the ] talk page. In terms of Misplaced Pages, you can find the rules at ]. Basically, either format can be used so long as that format is maintained throughout, for consistency - ] <sup>]</sup> 16:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::Thanks. I know which one I think is more accurate. --] 17:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::No, you know which one is absolutely correct and which one is not. (I see elsewhere that we are still being watched by the usual suspects who seem to feel that we are unable to have a conversation without their consent.) ] 18:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Haha, indeed. Yes, of course, on Misplaced Pages one can never favour correct form and precedent! --] 18:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::::: Guys - if you want a private conversation, there's email. This is a public arena. Using terms to refer to atheists as "scum" isn't very pleasant, now is it, jest or no? - ] <sup>]</sup> 18:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::No, this is the Talk Page of Counter-Revolutionary, not a common forum or workshop page. We are permitted to discuss Misplaced Pages articles on each other's Talk Pages. Might one ask how you came to be on this page? ] 09:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::It bothers me that this discussion is being discussed on Vk's talk page. What is that about, I wonder? - ] ] 10:48, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:29, 22 June 2023

Welcome!
User Page · Talk page · · Awards · Contributions · Edit count · Sandbox

James Chichester-Clark

I have removed the term 'only' in the sentence "only 1,500 troops" for the very reason that you condemned me for, because it is a claim that expresses that the number of troops offered was not high enough.

The quote may very well be a quote, but it is also a subjective analysis of a person's character, it is biased, many people would not describe him as "ever the gentlemen".

Furthermore, it is incorrect to use the postnominals 'MP' if the individual is not currently a sitting MP. The individuals named in the table are deceased and thus are no longer entitled to use the post nominals, that is standard policy in wikipedia.

Perhaps in future if you really disagree with my edits you could discuss them before engaging in a petty edit war? As I did regarding the appropriateness of using noble titles, before conceding. Thankyou! AJMW (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I suppose you are correct on the MP point. I still disagree with regards to the quote, given that it is referenced by a reliable source. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 09:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Just back, and a newly blanked page - just like the good old days! Anyway, when you get your mojo back, why not take a look at Misplaced Pages:User Page Design Center? You might find something that appeals. --Major Bonkers (talk) 10:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC).

Dodds

Really? Why?Traditional unionist (talk) 13:23, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Dodd's is a clever chap, seems much more capable than Robinson (even though he doesn't seem too bad a politician, whatever else he might be!) Thing is, if Dodds were it, I think he could beat the UUP. With Paisley gone, and Robinson in power, Stormont belongs to them once more. Hopefully.--Counter-revolutionary (talk) 13:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I think you just don't like estate agents!Traditional unionist (talk) 17:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Is he an estate agent, hahah, I didn't know that. You're probably right... --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 17:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Look at his shoes: if they're dirty, he's an estate agent. (An infallible test). --Major Bonkers (talk) 09:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I missed it

I thought ONIH retired? GoodDay (talk) 16:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


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Tomislav II

Hi, I saw some of your comments on the Mindaugas II of Lithuania talk page and was wondering if you would be interested in commenting on the request move for King Tomislav II of Croatia. - dwc lr (talk) 21:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't suppose you know anyone else who might be interested in commenting. - dwc lr (talk) 10:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll try to find a few.--Counter-revolutionary (talk) 11:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Nonexistent throne

Would you care to comment here as you have been the "reverter" with whom I have mainly come into contact = ). Regards --Cameron (t|p|c) 12:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Northern Command

Northern Command

Please stop disrupting this article by adding incorrect information to the lead or removing sourced content, your edits are unconstructive and are rapidly approaching borderline vandalism. Domer48 (talk) 22:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Northern Irish People redirect

Come now, that was most certainly not a "minor edit" as you indicated. There is an ongoing discussion on the talk page of that article. Please join us and help to work towards consensus. Windyjarhead (talk) 23:17, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Robert Ross Tomb Pics

Hi, the pics are here: Tomb Pics --Spankr (talk) 21:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not really sure how to work Wikimedia though.--Counter-revolutionary (talk) 06:36, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Political Dweeb's Question

User: Political Dweeb here wants to ask if User:Counter-revolutionary can look at the question I put on the Conservative Monday Club article's discussion page called Political position? I wanted you to clarify if what I said about the CMC in that question is true or not.

If you do not know do you know of anyone esle who can answer my question. Political Dweeb (talk)

Edward Carson

Hi, please do not revert me on this again, else I will resort to searching WP:Mediation with a neutral admin. I have plenty of citations that make both the cat and entry in the article Notable. With kind regards Keysstep (talk) 11:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

What are you on about? --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 15:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Contacted the administrator

Hi Counter-revolutionary! Since you reverted me again and I do not wish an edit war, I refrained from reverting you and contacted an administrator on the issue. With kind regards, Keysstep (talk) 17:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Lord Carson was no more a hurler than I am a cricketer. I have reverted you once, so far as I can see. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 17:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Bolding "sir"

I was not aware that this had become a de facto convention. I regard it as bizarre in the majority of cases, but there you go. The text you refer me to does not state that "Sir" should be bolded, although it does give an example where it is. I hope that in future you will be able to assume good faith and leave more positive talk page comments.

While I am commenting here, could I ask you to look over Help:Minor edit? At present, you seem to be marking almost every edit as minor, even those which change text - albeit usually a small amount - or could be controversial. The guideline states that a minor edit should be used for "...rearranging of text without modifying content, et cetera. A minor edit is a version that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute". Thanks, Warofdreams talk 18:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Quid pro quo, very good. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 19:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Lord Faulkner

If Lord Faulkner should be listed at List of teetotalers, please add a citation. I see nothing about this in his article. --Flex (talk/contribs) 17:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Michele Renouf

Please note that "lady" should not be at the beginning of the article per Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Honorific_Titles --Faith (talk) 19:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Note, lady is not an honourific title. I'm happy to take you on over this. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 19:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Senators

Never heard of him! Not too bad, keeping busy. Yourself?Traditional unionist (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You should check with the likes of Bill Henderson, he's almost certain to have known him. If you call party HQ they would give him your number and I'm sure he would call you back.Traditional unionist (talk) 19:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Vyner Brooke

9 out of the 17 references are from the 1 website, really it should have a variety of reliable sources Michellecrisp (talk) 08:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Also noted you marked your comment on my talk page and removal of a tag as minor. Thought it was not minor? Michellecrisp (talk) 08:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Hardly major. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 09:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Hely-Hutchinsons

I've just created a disambiguation page for Hely-Hutchinson. As I see you've been involved with a number of the articles about the earls with this name, could I ask you to have a quick look and make sure the descriptions for each are correct. In particular, whether I have correctly described them as Irish, Anglo-Irish or British - obviously this has been a sensitive issue over history, and I don't want to tread on anyone's toes. Many thanks. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 12:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts

I wish to state categorically that there's checkuser evidence that one or the other has happened, to vote-stack in an ArbCom election. This has been confirmed by multiple checkusers. SirFozzie (talk) 21:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Multiple=two. However there is another possible explanation which makes Fozzie just plain wrong. I have written to an Arbcom checkuser to verify. Berks911 (talk) 23:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Two (2)? You do seem to have some specialised knowledge Berks911, so where you fit in (as you like a mathematical analogy) to the equation. Exactly whose sock are you? As I see it, the main obstacle to Sussexman et al returning is an abject failure to come clean and stop deceiving the community. Perhaps Sussexman is more than one person - who knows? Perhaps, lots of people take a turn at being Lauder/Sussexman/Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. The only thing known for certain is that as long as he/they is banned he is fooling nobody. Giano (talk) 09:57, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Two = Alison and Thatcher. David Lauder has agreed that he has known and used Sussexman’s password; that does not make him the same person. Sussexman has retired. Lauder hopes to return and vehemently denies being Sussexman. I assume good faith on his part and Counter-rev’s. As Bonkers put it, I hope Lauder is not being left in limbo by Arbcom. Berks911 (talk) 10:28, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
This seems accurate. Giano, I'd appreciate it if you didn't post here again. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 11:

Blocked

Following the findings of 2 checkuser: Alison and Thatcher discussed here, I have concluded that you operated an account now renamed to Renamed user 20 (talk · contribs) to make threats against other users in the name of a living person. This is supported by the technical evidence, similarity in your areas of editing and past conduct, and by the timing of your edits and those that account. Given your previous blocks for sockpuppetry and harassing behaviour, I have decided to block you indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages. You may contest this blocks by placing the template {{unblock|Your reason}} on this page. WjBscribe 18:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

  • I thought I best give you my side. The accusations against me have come as a complete, and unwelcome, surprise. When the Sussexman/Lauder case arose it was noted I edited other accounts, non-abusively, and was asked to stop this as a condition of my continuing to edit; I complied with this (as could be seen by a checkuser). Those accounts have since not been used in any way, nor have I edited any other account.

One must ask several questions: 1. Why would I choose the name User:Nick_Corsellis_QC? 2. Why would I risk such trolling knowing full well it could be discovered? 3. When have I ever in the past used crude language, swear words, etc (something I detest) such as "F**k you" and "Me gonna stab you"!? 4. What grudge would I hold against Alison and the other user to make such comments? Further to this I have never even heard of User:Centrx. 5. Take a look at User:Giano II's post concerning User:Nick_Crosellis_QC on User:Alison's page. He says he "knows" who the account belongs to, certainly a bold claim for an account with 2 edits. User: Giano II then demands a checkuser, which draws the conclusion that its a "generic British Telecom IP address with no other users on it." I'll be the first one to admit about knowing nothing about IP addresses but I wonder how the checkuser has reached the conclusions it did, given there were "no other users on it." Clearly, however, it has reached this conclusion. This leads me to one of several conclusions; 1. the checkuser system is entirely flawed, 2. the checkusers have "set me up" (I think this is most doubtful and do not advance it as a serious proposal), 3. some other editor(s) have "set me up", I don't know how, but it seems to me a plausible explanation if at all possible.

Finally, on the charges against me it is said:

  • supported by the technical evidence, similarity in your areas of editing and past conduct, and by the timing of your edits and those that account. Given your previous blocks for sockpuppetry and harassing behaviour
  • To this my reply is:
  • Similarity of areas of editing: there is similarity of only one edit (out of two), User:Alison's talk page, on which I have never been abusive.
  • Past conduct? I have never used such crude and abusive language on the WP.
  • The timing? From what I can see the timing is within an hour of my edits, not a few seconds.

I attempted to contact Alison regarding her initial enigmatic message on my talk page but to no avail. I assure you that this account has nothing to do with me.

Best wishes, Counter-revolutionary (talk) 07:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC).

Counter-rev. I've had email from one respected admin that I need to check over. Also, one from you. I'm actually somewhat on break right now but I will address this further tomorrow. I'll likely email you about it tomorrow, my time, and will give this whatever time is needed to see it to conclusion, whatever that may be. Bear in mind that during the Lauder/Sussexman case, I was campaigning against your indefinite block. There was also the matter of other accounts under your IP that I never talked about. And they were legitimate other editors on your computer, and not abusive socks (right?) More tomorrow, but you have my word that I will be as fair and as honest as I can possible be, and I trust you will be likewise - Alison 07:37, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks, I appreciate your reply, there is no rush as I don't have a great deal of time to devote to this either. You have my word that the abusive user (N.C.QC) has nothing to do with me. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 07:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Noted. Let's try sort this out tomorrow. I have some questions relating to private information I need to ask, hence it will not be on-wiki. It's 1am here, so I have to sleep. Talk to you tomorrow - Alison 07:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
May I suggest that a completely uninvolved Admin deals with any appeal in this case? Frankly, Alison, you're already involved heavily in David Lauder and Vintagekits, and you're the one who has come up with this rather unusual-looking check-user. I really do think that it would be best for all concerned if someone completely neutral dealt with it. Major Bonkers (talk) 13:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
IMO Alison is as good if not better Admin to deal with this than any other. I have every faith that she is impartial, also from what I have seen of CR the posts don't seem to be the type of comments that they would leave on another users page. Me and CR have very different views on a lot if not all articles we edit, but I feel it is unhelpful to start calling for completely uninvolved admins to deal with it as it gives the impression that Alison is in some way biased. Also Bonkers what is a rather unusual-looking check-user? BigDunc 16:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Unless I am completely misunderstanding Dunc, I'm delighted to see what he says, and completely agree. The offending comments do not strike me as anything CR would say. It would be utterly out of character. Unlike Dunc however, I have very similar views to CR, and I would imagine have a much more agreeable relationship!Traditional unionist (talk) 17:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

In answer, I'd simply refer you to the article on natural justice. There's something particularly disturbing to me about issuing a block without giving the subject any notice or allowing him to make any representations. The evidence, so far as I understand it, seems to be entirely circumstantial and is based on Counter-revolutionary and the vandal operating in the same broad geographical area, on the one hand, and the vandal operating when C-R was off-line, on the other. That latter point is completely spurious; had they operated at the same time, that would also, no doubt, be taken as evidence to link the two cases. Personally, I wouldn't describe this as a 'likely' case of sock-puppetry, as Alison has; I'd describe it as a 'theoretical possibility', but I daresay that there isn't a pretty tag for that! I response to BigDunc, I have never said that Alison was biased; what I do say is that it would be sensible for any appearance of bias to be avoided: it's entirely a matter for her. Major Bonkers (talk) 08:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Bonkers, in all seriousness, this isn't helping matters at all. My goal here is to determine the truth, and I'd like to also point out that two checkusers have now commented on this case and have basically concurred. If you need a neutral, third opinion, it will have to be a checkuser opinion, as nobody else is privy to the checkuser data. In the meantime, I'll try to resolve this issue with CR in email - Alison 08:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

C-r. This Alison woman is totally implacable and hard. The funny thing is that her face looks really kind. Sussexman (talk) 16:24, 12 July 2008 (UTC) oh no!, I mean Christchurch (talk) 16:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC). Sod it!, I mean BScar23625 (talk) 16:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

BScar23625, personalised commentary aside, you're not totally innocent in all this. I kicked the above case up to ArbCom myself as I had privacy concerns regarding one of the accounts mentioned. You know which one, and you know what the connection is between all these socks, Isabela84 and yourself. So please - spare us the ironic humour - Alison 17:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Alison. You say "you're not totally innocent in all this". What do you mean by that?. Are you suggesting that I am one of the Sussexman group of editors?. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 (talk) 18:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Answering that question would be an unnecessary invasion of your privacy, and Isabella's. That's why I refused to run the checkuser. Please request clarification from ArbCom. You know your connection here - Alison 19:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Alison. Given that I display my name, address and telephone number on my user page - how could any answer from you invade my privacy?. Giano. Who is "them" and "themselves"?. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 (talk) 21:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd recommend blocking this talk-page, as was done with David Lauder Userpage. GoodDay (talk) 00:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Good idea. Every opportunity has already been provided at this stage and the Arbitration Committee have been made fully aware of the situation. Counter-rev. - you still have the opportunity to email the Arbitration Committee directly. I'm also aware that you're petitioning various others, so you still have many avenues open to you - Alison 06:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Order promotions and post-nominals

Hello. Please don't add a lower grade post-nominal after a higher one, i.e. this edit. The two are mutually exclusive in the sense that the lower grade (in this case OBE) does not appear after a higher one (in this case DBE). Thanks Craigy (talk) 14:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

No chance of that happening again - for a while (see above)! --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 17:13, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

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Unblock

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Counter-revolutionary (block logactive blocksglobal blockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


Request reason:

Reasons: Abusing multiple accounts denied; threatening behaviour denied (and unlikely givern editor's editing patterns); the block was not appropriate in the first place, was excessive and is not in any event any longer serving a purpose; natural justice; time served

Accept reason:

Per discussion with the blocking admin / there are questions over the connection between the vandalizing account and C-R / the Lauder affair is very much over and had previously been dealt with by ArbCom / editor was never formally community-banned / editor is not, and to my knowledge has never been, engaging in sock-puppeteering in the interim / two and a half years is more than enough / also applying WP:AGF here / block can be re-applied by other admins if necessary after unblocking Alison 20:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused, User:Kittybrewster. This block is more than two years old- has this user contacted you to request unblock? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 01:54, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Kittybrewster 02:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Can we hear this from Counter-revolutionary? Perhaps in conjunction with a rebuttal, rather than just a denial, of the allegations? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:16, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
How does he rebut it? What can he do? Kittybrewster 02:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Speaking for himself would be a start, followed by some attempt to counter whatever evidence was used to impose the block. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
He can't counter checkuser "likely" with evidence. He is not a computer geek and doesnt know how ip addresses work. He has said (above)

* I thought I best give you my side. The accusations against me have come as a complete, and unwelcome, surprise. When the Sussexman/Lauder case arose it was noted I edited other accounts, non-abusively, and was asked to stop this as a condition of my continuing to edit; I complied with this (as could be seen by a checkuser). Those accounts have since not been used in any way, nor have I edited any other account.

One must ask several questions: 1. Why would I choose the name User:Nick_Corsellis_QC? 2. Why would I risk such trolling knowing full well it could be discovered? 3. When have I ever in the past used crude language, swear words, etc (something I detest) such as "F**k you" and "Me gonna stab you"!? 4. What grudge would I hold against Alison and the other user to make such comments? Further to this I have never even heard of User:Centrx. 5. Take a look at User:Giano II's post concerning User:Nick_Crosellis_QC on User:Alison's page. He says he "knows" who the account belongs to, certainly a bold claim for an account with 2 edits. User: Giano II then demands a checkuser, which draws the conclusion that its a "generic British Telecom IP address with no other users on it." I'll be the first one to admit about knowing nothing about IP addresses but I wonder how the checkuser has reached the conclusions it did, given there were "no other users on it." Clearly, however, it has reached this conclusion. This leads me to one of several conclusions; 1. the checkuser system is entirely flawed, 2. the checkusers have "set me up" (I think this is most doubtful and do not advance it as a serious proposal), 3. some other editor(s) have "set me up", I don't know how, but it seems to me a plausible explanation if at all possible. Finally, on the charges against me it is said: * supported by the technical evidence, similarity in your areas of editing and past conduct, and by the timing of your edits and those that account. Given your previous blocks for sockpuppetry and harassing behaviour * To this my reply is: * Similarity of areas of editing: there is similarity of only one edit (out of two), User:Alison's talk page, on which I have never been abusive. * Past conduct? I have never used such crude and abusive language on the WP. * The timing? From what I can see the timing is within an hour of my edits, not a few seconds.

I assure you that this account has nothing to do with me.

Is more needed? What? Why?
  • Admins - let's not decline this too quickly, please? I'd like to address this in depth, myself. I have a lot of technical data from when the Lauder checkuser was run & I know exactly what part Counter-rev played in all that. However, I've never yet heard from C-R on how he could explain certain matters. On the Corsellis issue above, my leaning may be somewhat towards option 3. - I've seen it happen before & it's really not C-R's style - but right now, my main concern lies with what happened over the Lauder incident and how a significant number of accounts all voted from the same IP to attempt to bring down Giano's ArbCom attempt, back in the day. On the whole, I'm not opposed to unblock - not at all - but there are unanswered questions. I'd also like to hear from User:WJBScribe, the blocking admin. It's been over two years ago now ....

- Alison 07:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

  • I've been in contact via e-mail with User:Carcharoth regarding the unblock, I understood he was liaising with the relevant committee. In the wake of the Lauder/Sussexman debacle, it was decided I could continue to edit. From what I can remember, I was blocked following a comment made on Alison's page, which was somehow attributed to me. I did not write this and have no idea about the circumstances in which it was written; it it wholly unconnected to me, Given that years have now passed, I'd be grateful if I could edit once more. Thanks. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 08:33, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
    • Can I just also point out that, to my knowledge, C-R has never actually been formally banned from WP, and that a block, though indefinite, does not necessarily imply infinite - Alison 09:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Alison, as I understand it the Sussexman/Lauder issue was dealt with previously and the result was that I was allowed to continue editing. As I see it, I was blocked solely on the basis of the remark made on your user page by Corsellis. This was not me. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 10:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, if ArbCom clarify that with you (FloNight should certainly know, as will Fozzie) then that's great. I know you had been editing since the Lauder debacle, then the Corsellis edits occurred. If we're just down to the Corsellis edits, given that over two years have elapsed, I'm sure something can be sorted. Don't want to pre-emp ArbCom or anything, but .... - Alison 11:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

A return of this editor would not be condusive to the well being of the project.  Giacomo  11:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I have absolutely no insight into the Lauder/Sussexman debacle, or the technical evidence, but I would support the argument that it is extremely illogical, from a behavioural point of view, that Counter-revolutionary would be responsible for the renamed user edits. If these are the only basis for the continuing block then I would support a, perhaps conditional, unblock. If there are other confounding issues relating to Lauder/Sussexman sockpuppetry, I would suggest an appeal to ArbCom. Rockpocket 13:23, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Really bad call as far as I'm concerned. --Domer48'fenian' 14:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
I acknowledge all of that, Dormer48, but the block was for an unrelated incident, which I deny. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 14:11, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
"Considering the level of abuse here, including canvassing, logged out editing, and legal threats, I see no reason to be coy about accounts that currently appear to be well-behaved but are obviously the same individual. Thatcher 12:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)" The CU came back as:

 Confirmed

  1. Sussexman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  2. Chelsea Tory (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  3. David Lauder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  4. Counter-revolutionary (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  5. Christchurch (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  6. Immanuel can't (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
What more could I add. --Domer48'fenian' 14:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
You're correct, you cannot add anything. This is all widely know, agreed and acknowledged; the action taken on foot of this was, however, that I could continue to edit. I was blocked for an unrelated incident. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 14:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Your conduct which preceded the block, justified it. Your previous conduct, "Considering the level of abuse" and the reason for your block cannot be considered to be an "unrelated incident."--Domer48'fenian' 15:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
No. Those accounts are three people, Domer. 1. Sussexman 2 CounterRev 3 The rest. 2 years + have now passed. Kittybrewster 15:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Not according to Thatcher. --Domer48'fenian' 15:23, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Thia account most certainly should not be unblocked. GoodDay (talk) 15:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Kittybrewster is saying CR isn't Sussexman, perhaps they could explain this ? Specifically the post by Alison at 20:52, 9 July 2008 where she states the the unblock request from Sussexman came from the exact same IP address and the exact same computer as an edit by CR 7 minutes later, and that is just "one tiny example" and there are "many, many more". Another issue needing explanation is FloNight's post at 21:08, 9 July 2008 saying "The independent checkuser that I did in April showed similar patterns to the one Alison describes. Another arbitrator reviewed account contributions on specific dates and saw obvious links WITHOUT checkuser evidence. These accounts have been looked at independently repeatedly and every time the same conclusion, these accounts are linked and have been used abusively. With each review the evidence of a link gets stronger" --Domer48'fenian' 16:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
The explanation is that sussexman and counter both gave their passwords to David Lauder. The point is 1 this was over two years ago and 2 that Alison recognises that the abuse by Counter rev was minimal. Kittybrewster 16:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Sock puppetry was committed & that's unacceptable. It's very difficult to AGF in such situations. GoodDay (talk) 16:39, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Suck it and see. AGF. Kittybrewster 16:44, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Good day, Good Day and welcome to the fray! I understand your concern regarding the multiple accounts, etc. however, following the discovery of this I was not blocked - it was decided that I could continue editing (whereas David Lauder, etc. were blocked). I continued editing until a user made some rude comments on Alison's page. Somehow, it was concluded that this was me. It was not. In any event, it has been two years since this event. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 16:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Having the same IP, rather clarifies who's who. GoodDay (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
So does having a different IP on 99.9% of occasions. Kittybrewster 17:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
My advice (though not good advice) to the individual using this indef-blocked account, is to evade the block with a new account (but only 1 new account) & dissassociate him/herself from his/herself's Wiki past. GoodDay (talk) 17:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I really do not know if an unblock here is appropriate; I would be happy to accept Alison's advice either way, were she to give it. I would point out, as you may well know, that creating a new account may well be defined as block evasion, which would be seriously counter-productive if discovered.--Anthony Bradbury 17:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Like I said, my advice on this, isn't the best to follow. GoodDay (talk) 18:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

For my part, I do think that a natural justice appeal is worthy of consideration. After two years what is being achieved by continuing the block? It is also with asking, if this guy is a serial and disruptive sock-puppeteer, why is he not just setting up a new account and being disruptive? Anyway, give the guy a break and see what happens. Also, C-R, drop me an email, been a long time.Traditional unionist (talk) 21:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

A good question, and perhaps I might pose it differently. Why not start up a new account, disassociate from the negative elements tainting this one, and edit constructively? I can think of only one good reason, that is if the editor intends to contribute in the same area's and the same manner as this one and does not wish to have claims of sock/meatpuppetry made when the two are linked. This would be legitimate, except that there are elements of partisanship and disruptive behaviour in this editing area. This is clearly evidenced by the editors, generally, commentating here for anyone with even a passing knowledge of these issues. Personally, I cannot see how the area might be improved by the return of this editor. I oppose an unblock. LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:46, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, part of the reason there may be opposing editors stacking up here is that very reason of editing in a contentious area. It's not so much 'disruptive editing' as 'having the wrong POV'. Jes' sayin' .. - Alison 23:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
The person behind the account-in-question, was dishonest with the community, by not admitting he/she had multiple accounts. He/she gets a thumbs down from me. GoodDay (talk) 06:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I do not deny I used multiple accounts. I deny I wrote the comment in question on Alison's page. I'm happy to use a new account, but would wish to make edits to areas which I edited in the past, albeit to a lesser extent. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 08:22, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
At the time, when you used them, you didn't make it known. GoodDay (talk) 16:35, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Despite Alison's suggestion of bad faith on editors reasons for commenting here, the fact remains and she ignores is that this editor is a confirmed sock abusing and disruptive editor. That Kittybrewster offers a ridiculous explanation for the socking, and CR feels that the block was uncalled for shows a level of disassociation from realty that is astounding. --Domer48'fenian' 17:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
In the aftermath of the sock-puppeteering I was allowed to continue editing. The block was due to a one comment made on Alison's page. I have attempted to assure you that this was not made by me; Alison seems to be of this opinion herself. In any event, this occurred two years ago. Surely one should be able to return to Misplaced Pages and continue editing during good behaviour. I would imagine this would be preferable to, as you've suggested, starting a new account and evading the block. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 17:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
After over six years in dealing with Troubles issues on here, Domer, WP:AGF can only take you so far :/ - Alison 18:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, to clarify further; C-R was proven to have colluded with David Lauder and co., about two years ago. While technically not a 'sock', per se, he gave access to his account to the LauderHorde and they used it to try to sink Giano's ArbCom bid. That much has been established, C-R has already copped to it and ArbCom are fully aware of it. Subsequent to this, C-R was allowed to go back to editing and that was that. It was a pretty heinous thing to do & nobody denies that. I'm sure C-R even sees this now.

However, that's done and dusted. This block relates to an account that made a total of two edits ever. The main issue re. this account was not the edits, but its original name in which it abused the name of a prominent barrister. I think even you'll agree, Domer, that the edits made were so out of character for C-R as to cast serious doubt on the claim that it was him. Frankly, and I've said this already, it looks like a classic Joe job or setup. Even that notwithstanding, two and a half years for a block is more than enough, IMO - Alison 18:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I will oppose the unblocking of this account. If the community 'however' decides to allow its unblocking, then so be it. I recommend that a proposal of 'unblocking' be put to the community. GoodDay (talk) 18:16, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Given that C-R has never been formally banned, I don't see a need for a long-winded, drama-fueled community proposal. That's not how unblocks are done. In fact, I'm going to followup with the blocking admin & request his opinion on the matter - Alison 18:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
If the account is unblocked without community input, there's not much I can do about it. GoodDay (talk) 19:09, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Indef blocks mean "No fixed duration", they do not, and should not mean forever - WP:INDEF - unless the editor just wants to vandalise, in which case the block is always quickly re-applied - such unblocked editors are often added to the watch list of many others.  Ronhjones  23:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Unblocked

Hi Counter-revolutionary. Per discussion with the blocking admin, and per checkuser, you are now unblocked. You've been around here long enough now and know the rules, so I'll not go into a long rant here. Just please treat others, on all sides, with kindness and respect and everything will be fine. Be aware too, that some of the articles come under the auspices of the Troubles ArbCom sanctions and may be subject to 1RR rules, etc. Please read the unblock notice carefully, too.

Either way - trusting you a bit here. Best wishes & welcome back to Misplaced Pages - Alison 21:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Alison. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 10:22, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Welcome back

Drop me an email if you get a chance.Traditional unionist (talk) 14:52, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Shane Leslie

Fine, but Shane was an apparently self-chosen nickname. It is not appropriate to refer to him as "Sir Shane". He was Sir John Leslie, but not Sir Shane Leslie, I would think. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 14:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Welcome back. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 14:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Hello, this is just to let you know that I have granted you the "autopatrolled" permission. This won't affect your editing, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting new page patrollers. Please remember:

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Orphaned non-free image File:David ingalls.jpg

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Murray MacLehose, Baron MacLehose of Beoch

Hi. I shall be glad if you can join the discussion of the requested move of the article title of Murray MacLehose, of which you may be interested. --Clithering (talk) 14:07, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

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Baron Rossmore of Monaghan (Westenra family)

Hi. If you could take a look at my query on the above article's talkpage maybe you can make some sense of the discrepancies. Thanks. Quis separabit? 20:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Good evening!

Have you changed your email address? Drop me a line.Traditional unionist (talk) 20:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

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R&N Userbox

Hello, Counter-revolutionary! You can add the new userbox for the Royalty & Nobility taskforce, {{User WikiProject Royalty and Nobility}}, to your userpage! - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 11:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Diplomacy
Monarchism. СЛУЖБА (talk) 00:02, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Line of succession to the former Albanian throne

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Thank you. I've responded on the talk page. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 17:22, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

File:ML 1975.jpg

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Ken Maginness

Don't edit war at Ken Maginnis mate. I know you're right and I've told Gavin you're right. That article is related to The Troubles and as such is under a WP:1RR sanction which means you can only make one revert in any 24 hour period. So don't be tempted to go back there and revert Gavin again because that would make you both guilty of edit warring. I'll get him to self revert, which is the correct thing to do in this case. SonofSetanta (talk) 16:54, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I've searched for an answer and most pages including the Collins dictionary insist the title should be used for Barons, see here . I have found a UK government archive though here which agrees with you. If you do a page search for Baron or Peers you will get to a section called "Peers" which explains it this way, "Peers - There are five ranks or degrees in the Peerage. These are in descending order of dignity: dukes, marquesses, earls, viscounts and barons. "The Right Honourable" should be applied only where the peer is a member of the Privy Council." So you may be right. I've also posted this guidance to Gavin's talk page. I hope it helps you sort it out. SonofSetanta (talk) 12:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Rockport school.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:3rdAbercorn.jpg

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Clarification motion

A case (The Troubles) in which you were involved has been modified by motion which changed the wording of the discretionary sanctions section to clarify that the scope applies to pages, not just articles. For the arbitration committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 21:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of File:Sudeley.jpg

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Leka Zogu I

Hello, you edited Leka, Crown Prince of Albania (born 1939) to remove information about Leka having attended Phillips Academy, stating that he instead studied at Aiglon College. Could you please provide a source to this claim. Charles Fenyvesi's book Splendor in Exile, which I have in front of me, states the following:

"Leka had gone to high school in Alexandria, Egypt, and at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts. He had studied economics at the University of Geneva in Switzerland at the Sorbonne, and had attended the British military academy Sandhurst." (page 235)

Thank you in advance. Ageofultron (talk) 16:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

That's simply not right. Jason Tomes' book, at p 282, states 'Prince Leka...had completed his schooling in Switzerland...'. Further, the Zogu family's own website (https://albanianroyalcourt.al/leka-i-king-of-the-albanians/) says so: "After the war King Zog, Queen Geraldine and Prince Leka moved to Egypt, where they lived at the behest of King Farouk I. Leka was educated at Parmoor House. In 1946 he attended the British Boys School, where he continued until 1954. In Alexandria, Egypt, he attended Victoria College and then went to Aiglon College, Villars-sur-Ollon, Switzerland, where he graduated in 1956." Countless results on Google reveal Aiglon college as his school, including school photographs! I have never before heard this nonsense about him attending Phillips Academy, Mass. Counter-revolutionary (talk) 09:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Lady Katherine Crichton.jpg

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