Revision as of 15:16, 31 December 2007 editJustaHulk (talk | contribs)728 edits →Edit this section for new requests: User:Anyeverybody (AKA User:Anynobody) and Barbara Schwarz← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 15:15, 25 December 2024 edit undoWalter Tau (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,871 editsm →Statement by Walter Tau: typo | ||
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==M.Bitton== | |||
__TOC__ | |||
{{hat|result=M.Bitton is warned against ] and reminded to abide by ]. ] (]) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}} | |||
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<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
=Edit this section for new requests= | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|XDanielx}} 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|M.Bitton}}<p>{{ds/log|M.Bitton}}</p> | |||
==VartanM== | |||
Reverting my edit on the talk page calling it "vandalism" ? I am not sure if this is civil, when I clearly provided a rationale for the removal of the tag . This project ] is clearly a divisive nationalist ] push by a group of contributors. The icon map used for this project is a pure provocative fabrication, as Nagorno-Karabakh never had such borders neither as administrative division within Soviet Azerbaijan nor as unrecognized military establishment of Armenia. But what's most disturbing is that some members of this project are trying to rid Misplaced Pages of any historical reference to word Azerbaijan or Azeri, examples , . Thanks. ] (]) 13:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | |||
==White Cat== | |||
] | |||
{{report top|image policy issue. RLEVSE, 31 Dec 2007, 02:14 UTC }} | |||
This is user is disrupting the project. | |||
*He just attacked the Armenian genocide memorial images. He deleted the ones in commons and requested the ones on wikipedia to be deleted as well He is a known Armenian genocide denier and his actions are disruptive and insulting. I request immediate attention. ] (]) 02:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
**We have no jurisdiction over commons. ] 15:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::You do here on wiki. ] (]) <small>—Preceding ] was added at 06:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
::::Two IfD nominations is not disruption. ] 15:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:I merely am bringing the problem to community attention. Those images are actually speedy deletable per Armenian law. I am giving the community every opportunity relicense them. I am even willing to upload them from commons to here on en.wikipedia if there is a need. Few commons admins would go this far. I guess this is the reward I get... No good deed goes unpunished... --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 16:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Deleting images for copyvio reasons is not disruption. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 02:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
==]== | |||
I'll limit this to ] related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context. | |||
{{report top|User:Andranikpasha placed on revert parole for 6 months by Admin Moreschi. ] 02:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
# {{tq|xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with")}} | |||
====Select copy of edit history==== | |||
# {{tq|casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you}} | |||
#17:34, 10 November 2007 ] - MIPT is somewhat reliable Turkish ministry of culture and Australian-Turkish media group are not.Please use neutral, third party sources. | |||
# {{tq|please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see}} (partly struck per admin request) | |||
#22:14, 13 November 2007 ] - partial rv | |||
# , {{tq|Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage}} | |||
#07:36, 8 December 2007 ] - full revert. Please do not remove sourced material | |||
# {{tq|When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness}} | |||
#12:54, 8 December 2007 ] - full revert. I didn't remove material. only unreliable partisan sources | |||
# {{tq|I'm starting to question your motives}} | |||
#19:03, 24 December 2007 ] - revert back to last fully sourced version, also made a few other alterations. Stop removing sourced material. | |||
# {{tq|Please refrain from repeating your lies}} ( to {{tq|You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV)}} | |||
#18:16, 25 December 2007 ] - a Turkish propagandist site supporting the Genocide denial and dedicated to Armenian "terrorism" is surely biased and not reliable one! | |||
# {{tq|I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over ]}} | |||
#21:16, 25 December 2007 ] - rv, see talk | |||
# {{tq|please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable)}} | |||
#07:24, 26 December 2007 ] - revert after a consensus is achieved, OK? also pls read the admin comment on reliability | |||
# {{tq|Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find}} | |||
#18:34, 27 December 2007 ] - Do not remove sources without a good reason. You arent even disputing the validity of the information prsented here. | |||
# {{tq|you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article}} | |||
#18:49, 27 December 2007 ] - rv, discuss at talk first, have a consensus and then add (without this propagandist site!) look on an admin comment | |||
# {{tq|Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is?}} | |||
---- | |||
# {{tq|I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant}} | |||
*On 10 November VartanM made his first contribution to the article in question. All he did was remove the sources presented. One from the Turkish Ministry of Culture and the other a Turkish media group based in Australia (which ] considers reliable enough to credit). | |||
# offensive humor | |||
*Denizz somewhat revered him 3 days later on 13 November. | |||
*White Cat fully reverted the source removals 25 days later on 8 December. | |||
*White Cat was reverted by VartanM on the same day back to his last version. | |||
*White Cat reverted again 16 days later on 24 December. | |||
*White Cat a complaint to this page on 25 December after noticing ] <-> ] move war. White Cat's bot ] fixed a double redirect created by that nonsense. | |||
*White Cat was reverted by Andranikpasha on 25 December after my post. | |||
*White Cat contacted the uninvolved Bjweeks via IRC to look into the matter as a third party. White Cat did not choose him and instead made a general post to the channel. White Cat has reverted Andranikpasha and posted a comment on the talk page | |||
*Penwhale VartanM on A-A 2's restriction which he later as "]". | |||
*Andranikpasha reverted Bjweeks a day later on 26 December. | |||
*White Cat reverted to last version by Bjweeks on 27 December. | |||
*Andranikpasha reverted White Cat on the same day minutes later. | |||
::Compiled by <small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> on 19:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are. | |||
I hereby request the A-A 2's restriction be placed on Andranikpasha as he has only continued VartanM's behaviour. The only contribution of both VartanM and Andranikpasha to the article is the removal of the sources. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 19:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
: Yes, it is a known issue. ] is edit warring across multiple pages. I can significantly expand your list. He was originally placed on parole for this, but it turned out that there's nothing that could be done about it and he is free to do it as long as he remains civil. The arbitration system can be easily gamed here. ] (]) 19:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:: Two questions: to what extent has he actually been mentored because I can't find a single diff to show that but ] and second, why is he allowed to edit war when he was unblocked on condition of a working mentorship? He was indef blocked as a disruptive single purpose account. Is there any evidence to show that this has changed? ] (]) 20:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
This is yet another content dispute brought here by White Cat. ] (]) 23:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE ]. | |||
:Please pull the other leg... You said to me "". When I report Andranikpasha for edit warring the same issue becomes a content dispute? Can you at least please be consistent on what you are saying? --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 00:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: , | |||
::] states. "Articles should rely on '''reliable, third-party''' published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". Turkish propaganda cites and the ministry of tourism are neither. ] (]) 00:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::Request for comment is probably the only way to end this. Lets see what the community thinks about this. ] (]) 00:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::This is a complaint over user conduct. To be more specific the conduct of Andranikpasha. The content of the article, weather or not the sources stay, is irrelevant to this complaint of user conduct. Do not even attempt to change the subject. Others may fall for that but I wont. Any irrelevant comment will be promptly ignored so please stay on topic. Do not contribute to the problem. | |||
::::Andranikpasha has a history of revert waring and has been blocked indefinately for doing so. He is only allowed to edit because he is under supervision of ]. Despite this he seems to have a consistent history of revert waring. Above is just one example. Revert wars are unwelcome as you . The only reason this isn't in 3RR complaints page is because of the two RFAR cases. 3RR isn't a license for three reverts. | |||
::::--<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
::::Can you disprove the facts in the article using your own (apparently non-existent) reliable sources? If no then this boils down to the question of how this mentorship has worked and to what degree he has changed his behavior since the indef block. Also, per ] both views must be presented unless they are fringe. Are you saying that the attacks did not occur or that the casualties are incorrectly reported. If so do you have reliable sources to backup this claim? White_Cat's sources are simply used as supplements and are used by the non-disputed sources. ] (]) 01:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{yo|theleekycauldron}} I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on ]. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::This is getting more and more absurd. Apparently per his mentor is VartanM! This is the most absurd thing I've ever seen... and I've seen quite a bit here. I'm shocked to say the least. ] (]) 02:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
:::::Whats so shocking? Care to elaborate? Whats shocking is how so many users just appeared out of nowhere. ] (]) 02:33, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::Unlike you I can edit freely. Continue your insinuations and I'll deal with you on ANI. As for your question I'm shocked that you are supposed to be mentoring him yet there you are side by side in the same dispute. I call for this mentorship to be stopped and at the very least an unrestricted uninvolved editor be named as mentor instead. When were you planning to disclose this? ] (]) 02:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Excuse me? Be honest, White Cat asked you to come here didn't he? My mentorship of Andranik started back in September, he hasn't been blocked and is very familiar with how wikipedia works. He disscusses his edits and is open to mediation and compromise. I consider your remark about my edit restriction, which was applied to me only 3 day ago, an insult and I will report you if they continue. I want to remind you that this noticeboard is not for content disputes. ] (]) 02:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::::There is no content dispute since you can't dispute any content with reliable sources. Why didn't you say so at the top of this thread? Why didn't you correct White Cat when he referred to EL_C as his mentor? You knew perfectly well that this was about the mentorship, why didn't you just say that you are the mentor? ] (]) 03:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Have you noticed the hidden text White Cat has been adding? The one About Yanikian. Yanikian had nothing to do with ASALA, the organization didn't even exist when he commited the murder, It isn't even a terrorist attack. The sources White cat is pushing is Australian-Turkish media group, who's goal and objective is to respond to the Armenians and Greeks. The other one is Turkish Ministry of Culture and Tourism this one falls under WP:V it's not a third party source. Is it so hard to find neutral sources? Why are we even arguing about this? What happened to NPOV? and to answer you question, you're the only one who brought up the mentorship, El_C is the one who designated me as his mentor, if you have further questions, you can ask him. ] (]) 03:13, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::So let me get this straight so if two planes carry out a suicide attacks on the ] in New York City, I can't use New York police or US government as a source? Is that what you are trying to say? Or if a suicide attack is carried out against a ], I can't use the US Government as a source for that either? --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 17:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::No, what I'm saying is that Turkish sources have a clear bias toward Armenians and you can not use them as a reliable source. I'm tired of this, open a RFC ] (]) 18:37, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Would you like dessert with your order sir? I am not your waiter. Direct your orders at someone else. US government is biased towards its own Terrorists (Al-Quida, Hezbollah, Hamas, whatever) no less than Turkish government. Attempts to fabricate a controversy don't tend to go well. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 05:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::Desert would be nice, but you can't compare US government with Turkish govt. for the simple fact that the rest of the world tends to agree with US, but a lot of governments including the US have spoken against Turkeys illigal blokade of Armenia, and its denial of the ]. In any case, three different admin's agreed that you can not use the Turkish sources, you need to let this one go. If you care about this article so much, find neutral sources and everyone will win. ] (]) 05:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::The worlds view on ASALA is pretty consistent. The French are not pleased with people bombing their airports. The Swiss immensely dislike people blowing up their embassies. The US hates shootouts getting their citizens killed. Turkeys closure of it's borders to Armenia or Turkeys position on the Armenian Genocide has nothing to do with this discussion. I told you before. Stay on topic. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 06:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::::You're way off-topic, If I was to compare, I would compare using US govt source on anti-Iran related article. Turkish government can not be considered reliable source since its not third party. You have been told this by three admins. You are creating a dram out of nothing. Follow the rules please. ] (]) 06:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::I am off topic? ASALA did bomb French airports. ASALA did bomb swiss embassies. ASALA did shoot US citizens. This article covers such attacks. I am following the rules. Turkish government is an acceptable source. Any suggestion to the contrary must be based on sources. ] falls in your hands. We work with sources on Misplaced Pages, not with the opinions of a few editors. If the material on the Turkish governmental source is false, this should be easy enough to prove with sources. If you can't do that, tough luck. I am not creating drama at all. It isn't like I am engaged in frequent flame wars unlike some people I may mention as evident on the text below. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 07:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::News flash. The text bellow was started by you. ] (]) 07:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::You are welcome to continue to avoid the question. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 07:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::: I remember a similar dispute at ]. That article presents as facts claims of an obscure Armenian source about participation of ] in the Karabakh war, while no third party reliable sources support such a claim. I remember how ] and ] were arguing that it was ok to do so and that the Armenian anonymous (not even governmental) source was reliable to claim it as a fact. I was insisting on using third party sources and presenting the claims of the sides only as opinions, but this was rejected by the aforementioned users. You can even see here VartanM edit warring to keep the claim of the Armenian source presented as a fact. Despite what he says in the edit summary, anyone can see that the claim is only supported by an Armenian source (i.e. The Armenian Weekly On-Line). VartanM’s position on using third party sources seems to be quite unstable. ] (]) 10:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::So far a lack of consistency has been the only thing consistent in my dealings with VartanM. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 11:49, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
'''Andranikpasha placed on revert parole for 6 months by Moreschi.''' ] 02:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by M.Bitton==== | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see ]), they now decided to ] and file a retaliatory report. ] (]) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{re|Vanamonde93|Ealdgyth}} I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting {{tq|tag-team revert|q=yes}} (], while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). ] (]) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::{{re|Ealdgyth}} I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. ] (]) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::{{re|Valereee}} sure. ] (]) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
== ] <-> ] == | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
{{report top|I don't know what this report is about and frankly I don't care. If you want to file a request for arbitration enforcement, start with the name of the case, the name(s) of the editors you wish to report, the Arbitration remedy being violated, and diffs showing the violation. Be concise. Do not expect to re-argue the case here. File a new report if this is still a current issue, following these guidelines. ] 03:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
===Result concerning M.Bitton=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*<!-- | |||
--> | |||
* This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to ] and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. ] (] • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ] (]) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. ] (] • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. ] (]) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... ] (]) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. ] (]) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the . Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. ] (]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, {{u|M.Bitton}}. Can you discuss that? ] (]) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I meant can you discuss it ''here'', but maybe I wasn't clear. ] (]) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Have not read this but will note that {{u| xDanielx}} is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. ] (]) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:A logged warning, sure. ] (]) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. ] (]) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Ethiopian Epic== | |||
---- | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
:''This issue was originally posted on ]'' --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
---- | |||
*{{article|Turkics in Armenia}} <-> {{article|Azerbaijanis in Armenia}} | |||
**] and ] seems to want the title "Azerbaijanis in Armenia" | |||
**] and ] seems to want the title "Turkics in Armenia" | |||
*] | |||
*] | |||
===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log|Ethiopian Epic}}</p> | |||
A slow paced move war seems to be the case. I do not know the details (did not really looked deep into it) but there seems to be a problem. People may have been violated their revert parole from the linked arbcom case above. In any case an admin review is necesary. | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
I am particularly bothered by VartanM's conduct on ] as he is removing reliable (governmental) sources: | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
--<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
:Thanks for reporting and notifying. This is a content dispute, which revolves around what sort of material should go into the article. As for ASALA, Turkish governmental sources can not be considered reliable, and neutral since the Turkish government was the primary target of ASALA. And we all know what Turkish government thinks about Armenians. You are welcome to provide neutral sources. I suggest looking in the TKB. ] (]) 00:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::Content dispute or not, revet parole maybe at work. I'll let an admin or two decide on the verdict. | |||
::This statement adds to the problem. I find it inflammatory. Governmental sources are well within ]. Obviously the Ugandan government will not cover ASALA attacks... | |||
::--<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 00:18, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::I will always welcome mediators and third opinions in Armenia-Azerbaijan disputes. Judging by the month old diff you brought it up, you can't provide neither. I am still waiting for the explanation in the talkpage of ASALA article. If you want a constructive environment, you shouldn't revert the article to your proffered version and then report the other party to ANI. Back to the | |||
:::Azers/Turkics in Armenia the only outcome I see is having two sapperate articles, one for Azerbaijanis in Armenia, another for Turkics in Armenia. You can not have an article about Turkic tribes, some of whom are distinctly different from Azeris and call the article Azeris in Armenia. If there are any volunteers who are willing to help us divide the article, they can express their views in the talkpage. ] (]) 00:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::"And we all know what Turkish government thinks about Armenians." <- That is racist and inflammatory. | |||
::::It seems like the only problem you have with the Governmental source is that it is Turkish... | |||
::::--<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
:I consider racist and inflammatory. It was uncalled for! I am beginning to think someone is gaming the system. | |||
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:Judging by the overwhelming number of Azerbaijan-Armenia posts here, I think a 3rd arbcom case is necesary. | |||
# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence. | |||
:--<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September. | |||
::Good for you, but you are wrong. This is not a secret, it's common knowledge. The Turkish governments attitude towards Armenians in general is not far from the Third Reichs attitude towards the Jews mildly put. Any publication on the Turkish MFA site for example concerning Armenians is vile and racist:. A growing number of Turkish people in Turkey are sick and tired with their government and their position as a result, like them you should condemn the government instead of supporting their sick and deranged propaganda. Weren't you a party of an arbitration case that dealt with this topic as a matter of fact several years ago that got you banned from the Armenian Genocide article? --<big>''' ] '''</font></big><sup><small>]</sup></small> 03:36, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G | |||
::: I also think that third arbcom is inevitable. POV push and edit warring by a certain group of editors has to stop. ] (]) 05:39, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced | |||
::::I never got banned from any article and even if I had, that still would not justify your conduct here. Who is my government again? I never announced such a thing. You know, I have been ''accused'' of being from so many nationalities it ain't even interesting anymore. I do not believe this will be tolerated any longer. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 12:57, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial. | |||
# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote. | |||
# Engages in sealioning | |||
# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles. | |||
# starts disputing a new section of | |||
# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them. | |||
# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing. | |||
# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring. | |||
# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan. | |||
# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
Eupator, this is not a place for ]. Sufficient to say that up to 100,000 Armenians today reside in Turkey, have their own church and functioning patriarchate, while not a single Turkic soul (apart from 100 people you mentioned) is left in Armenia. And about Third Reich and Jews, if I may - - as recent as yesterday, December 23rd. This is while, Turkey has been a safehaven for Jews fleeing Inquisition in middle ages and Holocaust in 20th century. In any case, what's relevant in Misplaced Pages are specific comments by Misplaced Pages contributors, and hope you come up with facts to support your statements next time. Otherwise, please, assume good faith. Thanks. ] (]) 09:52, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
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# Explanation | |||
# Explanation | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[ | |||
:It is always convenient for you to soapbox about this issue and claim it is not the place to soapbox. The only person who soapboxed is you; Eupator explained why the statement is not racist. There have been more anti-Jewish actions in Turkey then there will even be in Armenia multiplied by a factor of few thousands. Three part of a series on The Middle East Media Research Institute. , , . The anti-semitism (not real anti-semitism) in Armenia is directly related to Israel acting as a puppet of Turkey supporting its politics on the Armenian Genocide issue. While the anti-semitism in both Turkey and Azerbaijan are the belief in a Jewish world domination of some sort, the belief of Islamist fanatics. The Ottomans opened their doors to the Jews not to save them but they opened their doors to the Jews to populate them in Greek and Armenian quarters to fight against those minority groups’ economical supremacy. It was also Turkey which installed the Capital Tax against its Jewish, Armenian and Greek population in World War II, near identical to the Reich tax to have them out from Turkey. Had Turkey not been Israel's ally, right now we would have Israeli lawyers or Jewish organizations suing it for the missing worth of hundred of millions of gold which passed by Turkey. Besides, it is scholars like Pierre Vidal-Naquet (Holocaust specialist) who compares the modern Turkish regime position toward the Armenians as the Third Reich and its ambassadors to Himmlers. If notable scholars can make such comparisons, so can Eupator, Vartan etc. - ] (]) 19:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
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*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above). | |||
Content dispute. Unless you want an admin to arbitrarily make a decision for you, don't bring these here. Further comparison of Turkey with Nazi Germany is not recommended. ] ] 19:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:How much more will we ''good'' users have to tolerate such nonsense? VartanM, Eupator, Fedayee has such a constant inflammatory tone. The above conduct basically is a test of my patience. You state that such contribution isn't recommended. Shouldn't it be banned? --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
VartanM placed on A-A 2's restriction. - ] | <sup>] / ]</sup> 22:53, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:What is A-A 2 restriction. I would welcome so that ignorant masses (that would be me) know precisely what it means. :) --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::] is also removing sourced content . --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 01:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::Not content, but biased non-reliable, non-governmental source, which you're pushing. ] (]) 01:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::Minister of Culture of Turkey is a governmental source unless you do not consider ] as a country. Turkish government is QUITE reliable. ] of ] (MIPT), a non-profit organization funded by the United States ] is also quite reliable. Have you actually checked the diff? --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 14:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::White Cat, an admin comment on "reliability" of that Turkish "source" on Armenian Genocide denial and Armenian "terrorism" is added to the article's talk. Pls read it! ] (]) 15:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::White Cat: ] is the restriction. - ] | <sup>] / ]</sup> 04:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
I find it truly amazing that no one is seeing anything at all. It's really sad. Eupator gave his time in expanding an article and had it sabotaged, Vartan on the other hand has to deal with Atabek’s provocations by having to deal with someone who compares the Armenian regime with NAZI Germany. We have Ehud, who we all know is Adil. Vartan was the one member without a restriction who had to deal with two members, who were using the fact that they had no restriction by simply reverting and only Vartan could have done anything about it. | |||
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I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting. | |||
:@], I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me. | |||
Here you have Atabek talking about an event which a few hours later, Ehud adds to an article. | |||
:I think there should be some important context to the quote: {{tq|"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"}}. The quote can be found in several books, on ] it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by ], where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from ]. | |||
Also, I don't see in any way how the summary of Vartan is offending, if they want to have the article on the Azeris in Armenia, then they should cover only those. I don't think the Turkmen, the Turks, the Tartars etc., would like to be called in mass as Azeri. - ] (]) 08:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:@] | |||
: The one who really expanded this article was Parishan, and Eupator deleted many of his edits. Then together with Vartan they tried to move the article to a new title without any consensus on talk with other involved editors, and in his last edit Vartan deleted plenty of sourced info again. Also, Fedayee, you presented no compelling evidence that Ehud is somehow related to Adil, and checkuser does not support your claims either. You were advised by the admins not to claim that Ehud is Adil unless it is officially proved that he is, but you keep on baiting this user by your baseless allegations. How long is this gonna continue? ] (]) 11:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on ] EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR. | |||
:@] I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on ] , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial. | |||
::Grandmaster, pls look on your edits before asking about others. We need common standards here! Im the only person who really expanded to ] and you deleted many of my edits and moved to ] without any consensus. And do you remember, how without marking any facts you wikistalked me saying Im a sock of user Artaxiad until I was blocked and re-opened just because an admin get sure Im not a sock but a newbie who dont know how to self-defence! Had you any facts that I was a sock of Artaxiad then? ] (]) 12:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
::: That article eventually got moved by admins to another provisional title, since the one created by you was POV. And I only filed a cu on you, that does not amount to wikistalking and was quite justified considering the amount of sockpuppetry on this topic. I advised Fedayee many times to do the same with regard to Ehud and follow the established procedures to deal with his suspicions. ] (]) 12:58, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
::::Admin movings (also called by you a POV) is another case I wrote about your unconsensused info deletions and moving. And why wikistalkings by you are justified considering the amount of sockpuppetry on Armenia-Azerbaijan topic, and when Fedayee disputtes Ehud's sockpuppetry, you represent it as an significant point (problem) here? ] (]) 15:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
::Parishan’s contribution on Misplaced Pages overall has been disruptive, we have documented in the previous case that he has edited countless articles to have the term Azerbaijani added when it should not have been done. If another case is opened, we will document how he has created countless articles about individuals which do not pass the test of notability. Parishan’s contribution on Misplaced Pages look to be centered on adding the term Azerbaijani, and adding as many articles (which otherwise will not pass the test of notability) to have that word there. This is more particularly related to events covering periods where the Azerbaijani identity did not exist. You claim that some group of editors’ POV pushing should be covered and another arbitration is necessary. During the two arbitration cases, you have failed to document any POV pushing; we on the other hand during the second arbitration case have loaded the evidence page with POV pushing which was ignored totally. We have dozens of pages documenting POV pushing and I agree on a next arbitration about POV pushing, this is what I wanted during the last one, and I will oppose any new arbitration which would not be centered on that because a new case which would not deal with this would be a waste of time. | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Ethiopian Epic==== | |||
::And this time the evidence, which had it been available or known by some of us during the first case, would have probably changed the final decision, particularly on Atabek. So yes, I want a third arbitration too but only if this time it is taken more seriously. And yes Ehud is Adil, and evidence points that Elsanturk is behind this Ehud thing too, all that is needed is a new arbitration case with fresh blood… maybe the arbitration this time will be reading the evidence... - ] (]) 18:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits. | |||
@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account. | |||
:::Fedayee, - what an incredible waste of community's time... After it's once more clarified that Ehud Lesar and AdilBaguirov are not the same person, I suggest that you apologize to these and all other contributors, with regards to whom you just keep on assuming bad faith. ] (]) 01:39, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus. | |||
::::Fedayee, you can be my guest and raise the notability question for every single article I have created. I honestly see nothing wrong in the fact that most of my articles have to do with personalities and events that are linked to Azeri culture. Just like most of your edits have to do with Armenia-related issues. ] (]) 09:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
I don't think the inclusion of my name in this report was appropriate. I only moved the article once , almost a week ago, for 2 reasons which I clearly explained on the talk page: | |||
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either. | |||
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* 1. There is no such word as "Turkics" in English vocabulary | |||
* 2. The article content for 99% deals with the eradicated Azerbaijani community in Armenia | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
I don't know to what extent my single page title change with justification is considered edit warring, in light of Eupator or VartanM revert activity, just check . | |||
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. | |||
Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort. | |||
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Eronymous==== | |||
:::: My goodness, now Elsanturk is Ehud too, or the other way around. Perhaps, Atabek and Grandmaster are Adils too. Who else who's not supported Armenian point of view? Parishan, Aynabend, etc. With this logic, we will all "become socks" soon. I agree with Atabek. I hope Fedayee and others who try so hard to relate me to any other names are demanded an apology when everything becomes clear. (] (]) 03:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)) | |||
Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before. | |||
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this. | |||
I have blocked {{user|Fedayee}} for 24 hours due to the above accusation that Ehud is Adil, and left a note on with more background. ] (]) 06:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
It's clear that the so-called "admin" ] has turned himself into a meatpuppet for the Azeri users. He completely justified Ehud's insults and AGF violations, in fact he even encouraged them. He insulted Fedayee after Ehud was reported for insulting other users. And now this pseudo-admin is blocking a Fedayee as a final act of service to the Azeri users. He has no job being an administrator. We will make sure that he is stripped of that privilege. | |||
====Statement by Nil Einne==== | |||
Fedayee has ample evidence that Ehud is a sockpuppet, and he has the right to express it, to prevent a potential sockpuppet from disrupting articles without a restriction. | |||
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
And by the way, if an administrator starts behaving suspiciously, users have every right to point it out, due to the serious potential of abuse. --] (]) 07:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ] <sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ] <sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* {{re|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==Tinynanorobots== | |||
Just a few more facts. ] is not a policy. It is a '''guideline''' which "'''is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception.'''" (]). Saying that someone is a sockpuppet is not a violation of AGF--someone may engage in sockpuppetry with good faith (i.e. believing that he is making Misplaced Pages better). | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log|Tinynanorobots}}</p> | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
Furthermore, a penalty should be applied after an official warning is placed on a user's talk page, and the user is told that continued violation will result in blocking. It's spelled out in the ArbCom decision: "Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them." http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2 | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
Poorly worded and vulgar requests (containing phrases such as "shut up", ) on other pages do not count. | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}). | |||
In sum, Fedayee's block was highly inappropriate and needs to be lifted. I request a neutral admin to do so. Thank you.--] (]) 11:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}). | |||
#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ]. | |||
#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}} | |||
#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus. | |||
#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus. | |||
#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq|Slavery in Japan}}. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
# Explanation | |||
:This block was not intended to be part of Arb enforcement simply because it occurred on the AN/AE noticeboard, as I have explained on the users talk page. I have requested a review on ] in order to gather wider input. ] (]) 11:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Explanation | |||
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Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why. | |||
Let's see the choice of the words by Tigran: ''so-called "admin" ] has turned himself into a meatpuppet for the Azeri users'' (Tigran got away with "so called Azerbaijanis", now this), "''pseudo-admin is blocking a Fedayee as a final act of service to the Azeri users''", and goes as far as intimidating: ''He has no job being an administrator. We will make sure that he is stripped of that privilege''. Tigran thinks that sticking to ] is not obligatory, even despite the recent arbcom specifically mentioning it among its principles: , how about ]? ] (]) 13:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting. | |||
:Grandmaster, TigranTheGreat is not the only one, I think all the users by Armenian side (off course included me) are sharing Tigran's opinion that Jayvdb's activities on Armenia-Azerbaijan related articles are '''always''' pro-Azeri biased and surely Jayvdb knows our common opinion about this (see for example ]). Anyways he's continuing to "arbitrate" Armenia-Azerbaijani questions without leaving this hard responsibility for a less biased admin who can made a real consensus not a basis for future conflicts. The tolerance is what we need in Misplaced Pages! By all the sides! ] (]) 14:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks | |||
::Andranikpasha, as you know two of the people that recently were foaming at the mouth about my involvement in this area were sockpuppets ] and ]. The only other two people that have voiced their discontent are yourself and TigranTheGreat, which isnt surprising because I have warned you both for being extremely difficult. VartanM has made a snide remark on ] which I think was more directed at the overall quagmire this topical area is (I wasnt mediating the article at the time). As far as I know there is nobody else who has not been banned by someone other than myself; please correct me if I am wrong. | |||
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him. | |||
::As for having a pro-Azeri bias, perhaps that you forget that I happily transcribe pro-Armenian sources like ] and ], of which at least the former you used in an article (Shusha, I think it was). | |||
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section. | |||
@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}. | |||
::I have mostly Azeri articles on my watchlist primarily because I came into this topical area as a result of involvement with the ] article (I dont recall how I arrived there; it was over a year ago, feel free to dig through my contribs); I've yet to spend time working on primarily Armenian articles, but by the same token I have yet to tackle any predominately Iranian or Turkish topics either. To imply that this means I have a pro-''anything'' worldview is bordering on paranoid. I simply have not been in a position to need to defend the Armenian point of view from being trampled on, as nobody has ever asked me to and I am busy enough as it is. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
::I do not "tolerate" stonewalling and incomplete sourcing and/or research. Perhaps that is the problem. ] (]) 15:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Tinynanorobots==== | |||
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}} | |||
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize. | |||
:Sorry John I dont want to discuss your biasement I done it earlier many times and you know my opinion. Just some things: the source on Shusha was found and represented by '''me''' (not you), I already used it, and you just putted it to Wikisource. Sorry its not a great help! And I dont want you to became pro-Armenian Im just said your activities are pro-Azeri biased and no any user by Armenian side disagrees with me (not only the ''socks'' you marked, but all, all Armenians:). Also you're watching both Armenian and Azeri articles. Thats not the problem. The problem is '''only''' Armenian users are warned by you, and you made only pro-Azeri biased editions. Do you need some obvious facts? ] (]) 18:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me. | |||
::Yes, you found the the article and mentioned it ] on October 9, with a transcription. As far as I know, it wasnt until November 22 that you that source on an article. In that time, I had put it on Wikisource, and added many others to it. I have no intention of being pro-''anything''; I'm just interested in improving our coverage of this topical area. That includes putting PD sources onto Wikisource where they can be easily accessed, discussed and value-added with Wikilinks. ] (]) 19:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it. | |||
I remember that ] was claiming punishment for another third party user, who happened to disagree with Tigran on Khojaly article. | |||
] (]) 16:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI | |||
I don't know much about this admin but I think blocking someone for accusations of sockpuppetry is hogwash particulalry when there is a mountian of evidence. I'm accusing Ehud of being a sokpuppet as well. Once again that block is of extreme poor judgement and requires immediate review. Also John Vandenberg asked for clarification here ] 3 days ago and never responded. If he is so interested and deeply involved in this case to the extent of issuing blocks why on earth did he not bother to take into consideration the response to a question that he put forward? --<big>''' ] '''</font></big><sup><small>]</sup></small> 17:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Relm==== | |||
Upon further review I must say that All of Vandenberg's interventions are indeed ALWAYS one sided. Starting with the move at ] while the article was being mediated and the mediation turned against Grandmaster who started edit warring leaving the table. In fact, you ALWAYS appeared when an inch of apperearence of misbehavior was from our side. But where were you during the rest of the time? VartanM remark? What more evidences of your bias when you criticised it here in a discussion which also contained references of Atabek comparing the Armenian regime with the NAZIs. Indeed no one was ever fragile to the ears when this comment was made on various occasions. Only has it disturbed you when the comparison with the Reich and Turkey was made. Then, Picaroon made a comment, White cat was so much insulted. Or what about your justifications of Ehud infamous remarks, you must have also missed his remark to Fedayee accusing him of being brainwashed. Was this reply also related to the accusation of sockuppetry? | |||
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (). | |||
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Golbez was pushed out from mediation, while no one had any problems when he was locking the article on Grandmasters version, neither when he was reverting Armenian users. But what about you? Tell me how when on average you don't know anything is happening in those articles, you ALWAYS appear at the right time at the right place, which is to support one side against the other? | |||
====Statement by Barkeep49==== | |||
Also, I do imply you are pro-something and I find comments such as this offensive''bordering on paranoia.'' | |||
*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Stonewalling? Here one more, Ehud is a sockpuppet of Adil. This is to say it midly quite obvious. He claims he learned the things about Geycha from libraries, it must be quite difficult when such a claim put forward by Adil is neither included in any article on Jstor or any web database, neither in a single work found on google book. More surprising is his intervention on the Church of Kish, when the number of people who wrote anything about it could be counted on one hand. In fact one magazine he contributes in, and one article written by Adil Baguirov are mostly all to be found supporting the position he was maintaining. ''The restoration work related to the Church and humanitarian help to Azerbaijani refugees and IDPs by NHE can be reflected in a new article. Heyerdahl's visits and research on theories should rather be added to his page.'' Such a knowledge from an alleged Jew of a subject not even notable. | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
This guys participation on Misplaced Pages could be mostly resumed at reverting to Grandmaster, Atabek etc. version in articles which were interesting so much for Adil Baguirov socks. This guy maintains unconventional positions which are exclusive to Adil, regardless of what he claims. This guy started contributing on Misplaced Pages hours later Adil knew he will be banned. No one will assume downright that an editor is obviously impressed by Adil, unless the person who is backing that claim is Adil himself. On three different occasions when sockuppetry was at its peak, it only stopped after Ehud returned. He claims he has a heavy schedule, funny that the heavy schedule of Adils sockuppet will in those occasions coincide with Ehud's light schedules. Or the association between Atabek and Ehud, the same way there is one between Adils socks who were mostly always landing in the articles where Atabek was contributing. Like Atabeks comment about the holocaust monument vandalism in Armenia, and few hours later Ehud having a section prepared to be posted in an articles mainspace. And the many other evidences provided in Fedayee's page, including those I have supplemented elsewhere makes of this sockuppetry thing confirmed. That you request more time to study this or are incapable of confirming what is obvious is no reason to block a member. If a new arbitration case is opened you MUST be added as an involved party! | |||
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===Result concerning Tinynanorobots=== | |||
Vartan gets the restriction for an accurate and supported edit summary, Fedayee is blocked for 24 hours a day after. I wonder who Penwale has consulted as he claims. I hope it wasn't you, neither Whitecat (who so much concentrated on Armenian and Kurdish "terrorism" filling articles with unreliable references comming from the Turkish government propaganda websites). --<big>''' ] '''</font></big><sup><small>]</sup></small> 17:47, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I dont have time to answer all of this right now as it's 5am here, but to ensure there is no confusion, neither Penwale or Whitecat has consulted me. I dont know Penwale at all, and have only run into Whitecat a few times wrt to image related discussions on commons (presuming I have the right cat). | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
:I have looked and seen Ehud's regular reverts which is why I think it warrants further investigation, and I have committed to doing it, but continual accusations do not make that user a sock puppet. It takes time to thoroughly analyse a users contributions in order to independently verify that they are a sock puppet (something I dont like to accuse someone of without a good reason). I did not respond to the additional note at ] because the thick of the holiday season arrived. When I returned to review AN/AE I found Fedayee had continued to make the same accusations in spite of the warning days earlier, and this thread going along the same path as ]. Note that in that thread I specifically said that VartanM's use of colourful words was reasonable, as I dont think it is wise for Wikipedians to get their knickers in a knot over every barb in each others words on talk page - the way to stop words escalating into blocks is to shrug them off where possible, and get back to our task of writing an encyclopedia. | |||
:I have explained why my interventions are primarily one sided. If you review my contributions, my interventions are limited to a few articles that I have already contributed to, or I have contributed to articles in very close proximity to them. That has nothing to do with my point of view or any bias. If the other side of these topic disputes request that I take a look at something, and give me the space to come up to speed at my own pace, my watchlist would be full of Armenian articles as well. ] (]) 18:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*<!-- | |||
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==Selfstudier== | |||
Eupator and TigranTheGreat, please, check (and it says in introduction that AGF is the fundamental policy in Misplaced Pages): | |||
{{hat|1={{nobold|1=No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer ] is informally warned against frivolous filings. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}}}}} | |||
* ''If bad faith motives are alleged without clear evidence that others' editing is in fact based upon bad faith, it can also count as a form of ], and in it, the user accusing such claim is not assuming good faith''. | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
In this case, ] keeps on accusing Ehud Lesar of sockpuppetry with Adil, while not having any confirmation for his claims. Also, ], which you cite above seems to be analyzing and trying to identify the geographical location and personal details of ], which is on the borderline of ]. As I said, it would be much easier, if administrators dealing with this case directly contact each contributor to obtain the proofs that one is not the other. Thanks. ] (]) 19:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Request concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
Atabek, ] says nothing about it being a fundamental '''policy''', as you misquoted. It states that it's a fundamental principle. And, the page states that it's a guideline which doesn't need to be applied in all circumstances. Please stop misleading others with false statements. As for accusing Ehud--there is very clear evidence that he is a sockpuppet, it's been clearly manifested--hence it is NOT a personal attack to call things by their names. | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Allthemilescombined1}} 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Selfstudier}}<p>{{ds/log|Selfstudier}}</p> | |||
To Jayvdb: It doesn't matter '''why''' your interventions are one sided. Since you admit that your actions are indeed one sided, regardless of the reason, you need to step away from Armenian-Azerbaijani articles to avoid such one-sided actions. That's the only way to guarantee neutrality. Which means, to start off, you need to lift off Fedayee's block, which right now provides EXTREMELY strong evidence of your bias.--] (]) 19:10, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:That, quite frankly, is obvious nonsense. ] <sup> ]</sup> 19:20, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::Is this one-side support a nonsense too ? ] (]) 19:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
:::: Eupator, you and Fedayee are not only accussing me. You're obviously stalking me. If you posted your so called "evidence" by going through my contributions, contributions of user Adil Bagirov, Atabek, Grandmaster, Elsanturk, etc., comparing the dates of edits/reverts, talk page discussions, etc., calculating and then pasting bunch of links to claim this proves I am someone '''I am just NOT''', that doesn't mean I am that very same user and have to be banned. Javydb clearly pointed out to Fedayee that he will investigate and so did the other admins. Why do you keep stalking me? Why don't you just continue contributing and expect the decision? It's not like I edited hundreds of Armenian articles in a day. '''On contrary, as a sign of respect to the admins looking into the issue, and as a sign of respect to the Armenian requestors, I did not start or edit many articles I wanted to, until my name is cleared'''. | |||
:::: Secondly, if not much information about Azerbaijan and History of Azerbaijan exists online in above mentioned databases and google books, that doesn't mean they don't exist at all. This is perhaps one of the mistake Azeris have been making. While Armenians, largely represented by Armenian diaspora in Western countries have had the first access to online resources, and moreover, had access for easier publishing in western languages, Azeris have not, and as a whole, have obviously been passive. If you ever attend libraries in other countries and perhaps Azerbaijan itself, rather than only searching for them online, you will come to find out that these books, articles and documents are available for you to read. Just looking at the volume of Azerbaijani online literature and hard copy literature as a whole on history of the conflict as well as history of Azerbaijan since the beginning of 1990's, and comparing it to the decades before, you will find an answer to your question. Sources on Armenian though and Armenian point of view has been there several decades earlier, and were taken online right after we found out what internet is. Hope this clarifies why and how I read and have read some books you are not aware of. | |||
:::: Third, you're mentioning my addition to the article on after allegedly Atabek posted it somewhere in Misplaced Pages. Now it gets really funny. In the preceding comment, you're mentioning that there is no information about Geycha and Zangezur online, Jstor, google books, and then you're also saying that I posted something (''available online'') which Atabek posted some time ago. Eupator, you're contradicting yourself. I am notified about news on Israel by google notifier, and other users may use the same tools, you know, just like Armenian users read the news about Armenia every day. | |||
:::: Fourth, ''"this guy..."'' is not an appropriate way of addressing. Some respect would be nice. ] (]) 23:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: | |||
====Random edit point<!--for the love of a goddess, how long is this?-->==== | |||
] | |||
Oh My Goddess! I just keep my eye off of wikipedia for... What? 48 hours? And we have a full fledged flame war! Please take your flame war elsewhere preferably off-wiki. This page is for ''Arbitration enforcement'' and your fine points on your other issues do not belong here at all. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 23:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
* Dear John Vandenberg, out of curiosity, and since one side of the Aremnia-Azerbaijan conflict strongly feels that you are not neutral, I have been studying your contributions, and you do have a history of mysteriously appearing on various articles in which User:Grandmaster is involved in, usually to support User:Grandmaster's position in an editorial conflict. There is an undeniable pattern that supports this assertion, so in light of this, can you please clarify the nature of your relationship with User:Grandmaster? Are you in contact with User:Grandmaster outside Misplaced Pages via emails and instant messaging? --] (]) 23:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
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*:Why not use his talk page for that question? --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 00:33, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Concern for ] violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.” | |||
*Having read the above flame war how can anyone seriously believe that these are people who came here to edit in good faith and build an encyclopedia? How much time has now been wasted on this? Half this darn page seems to be about this dispute. Time to get that clampdown effect on people who aren't here for the encyclopedia going. AGF not set in stone? Oh come on already. ] (]) 19:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source {{ISBN|9798888459683}}, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”. | |||
*:I think its worse than that. Most of the flame wars are collapsed meaning you only see it if you click the hide/show button. --<small> ]</small> <sup>]</sup> 00:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
# Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch {{ISBN|978-1324105343}} “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil. | |||
# Concerning for possible ] and ] violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
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;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
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*Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
==]== | |||
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. | |||
{{report top|I would consider the move sufficiently disruptive to warrant either a block or a page ban under the supervised editing provision of the Arbitration case. However, it was reported late and is now so stale that action would be punitive rather than preventive. Report current violations in a new section. ] 03:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC) }} | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
{{User|Eupator}} was a party to both and ArbCom cases. According to the remedies imposed on him in these cases, {{User|Eupator}} is subject to supervised editing and "is limited to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism". | |||
*Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”: | |||
However on ] he moved the page to a new title twice without any consensus on talk: , and then deleted large content from the article, which according to ] is also considered a revert: | |||
*RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", {{ISBN|978-0827615236}}, as a “non-notable children’s writer”: | |||
] (]) 09:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Moving the page twice is a violation of revert parole, as far as I can see (though removing the content is not, the policy is just badly phrased) but 3 days after the violation any block would be overly punitive. Eupator can consider himself warned not do so again, if you please. ] <sup> ]</sup> 15:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::No it's not. Move # 1 was a regular edit. Move number # 2 was a revert. How on earth is this a violation? This is not a violation, the move was a consequence of my edit not the aim. I expanded the article and included data about tribes and more data regarding population movements which was not specific to the Azerbaijani's, had I created one article, the consequences would have been to request the merging because some information covered what is already in the ''Azeris in Armenia'' article. Others moved my article by leaving my additions there which made no sense and was illogical because I really expanded the article and with the already included content it could not have been considered as ''Azeris in Armenia'', so I made a revert, ONCE. This makes one revert, not two. I don't understand why Grandmaster is even including the deletion, it included what I added myself and also information not specific to the Azeris, I took them out to create another article about the Turkic people in Armenia throughout history. I don't see how this counts as a revert, as a revert of what, what I added myself? Where is the second revert? I modified the article, expanded it to be more general, I was reverted for the renaming not the rest, then I reverted. I had 1 revert, the first not being one..., since some people started to edit war, I removed what I had added. Kindly retract your warning or elaborate.--<big>''' ] '''</font></big><sup><small>]</sup></small> 00:41, 24 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”. | |||
Eupator removed large chunks of well-presented, relevant and sourced information from the article and drastically modified its content, along with its title. If he wanted to cover the history of Turkic tribes in Armenia, the ] article did not have to suffer. He should simply have started a new section within the article, or a new article, rather than disturbing the one that took almost a month of intense discussion to reach consensus on earlier in 2007, and remained in that form for the past 6 months. Not to mention multiple reverts on Eupator's part, which I believe contradict the Arbcom ruling. Eupator claims he made only one revert, when in fact deleting another user's contributions (in this case, mine) is in fact considered a revert. He started the edit war on the article by moving the page twice without any consensus with other editors on talk. ] (]) 08:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Concerns for possible ] and ] violations: | |||
:There never was any consensus on that article. And the only reason why the article remained that way is because Parishan is acting as if thinks he owns the article. Parishan claims that Eupator has removed large chunks of article… what he does not say is that those were irrelevant. The article is used as a vehicle to rewrite history by claiming an identity which was yet not formed. I and Eupator have agreed on a RFC, now Parishan has yet to agree. - ] (]) 19:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled: | |||
:: Eupator once again deleted large content from the article, which was there for many months. He did that without any consensus on talk with other involved parties. While this is not a violation of his parole, it is an obvious POV editing, which is the main reason why the conflicts on this topic never end. The same thing happens on many other articles. ] (]) 06:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic. | |||
:::Why aren't you reporting Parishan, Aynabend and Baku87. They are not violating anything, but it is an obvious POV editing which is the main reason why the conflicts on this topic never end. The same happens on many other articles. (I typed each letter) ] (]) 07:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren) | |||
:::: They did not delete from the article anything that was there for many months, unlike Eupator, yourself and Andranik, did they? ] (]) 07:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::If you want the material to remain, which Eupator expended then you have to agree that article be renamed to reflect what it covers. Otherwise you're free to create a new article that covers Turkic tribes in Armenia and add the deleted info there, I don't think anyone will disagree with that. ] (]) 08:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::And by ''did not delete'' you mean like ? ] (]) 08:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::: Eupator moved the page twice without any consensus and deleted content many times without consensus. If he thought that the article should have been a certain way, he needed to discuss and reach consensus first. As a long time editor you should know that. As for you diff, all the staff added by Andranik is undue weight, it takes more space than any other section in the article and is another example of tendentious editing. ] (]) 08:46, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.” | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
==] == | |||
*Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY: | |||
*Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me". | |||
{{report top|No confirmation of sockpuppetry. Ehud Lesar has been placed on revert parole for 6 months. Report violations in a new section. ] 03:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
Concerns for possible ] violations: | |||
Lately user ] has been openly insulting other users, engaging in trolling, and seriously violating the Misplaced Pages policies requiring ] and ] | |||
*Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024. | |||
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive): | |||
Just in the past 24 hours ] trolled and insulted several times, '''all on this page'''. Following are the examples. | |||
* by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus; | |||
* by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile' | |||
* by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with and by Smallangryplanet; | |||
* by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ]'s $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide. | |||
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors. | |||
Here is an obvious act of trolling against another user (]): | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
'''''"Keep talking. Maybe this compensates your anger."''''' | |||
===Discussion concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
Here is again similar offensive remarks and trolling, this time not only against ], but all Armenian users (notice the highly provocative "''do you guys''"): | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Selfstudier==== | |||
'''''"Do you guys mass mail each other and decide how to "treat" other users?"''''' | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
'''''"But please do continue writing. Otherwise it'll get boring."''''' | |||
I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and . Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring ] and ]? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the ] policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. ] (]) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Butterscotch Beluga==== | |||
Once again, ] seriously violating ] and ], against Armenian users: | |||
I didn't say it was ''"irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests"'' as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at ], so as I said, the ''"Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article"''. We have other articles like ] & more specifically ] that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - ] (]) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Huldra==== | |||
"''Or, is it better for you that I am not checked so that you keep repeating the same melody over and over? '''I think the latter option suits your interests well and that's why you're inactive.'''''" | |||
I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that ] "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that ] “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", ] (]) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by RolandR==== | |||
Such behavior is completely unacceptable in Misplaced Pages, and requires some sanctions to ensure it will not happen again.--] (]) 18:06, 22 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. | |||
As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing ] as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. | |||
: You're stating above I am '''openly insulting other users, engaging in trolling, and seriously violating teh Misplaced Pages policies''' And where would be anything indicating OPENLY insulting? Please bring some examples, other than those lines above which are NOT indicative of anything. Please also, copy and paste your own remarks about Azerbaijanis, your remarks on Azeri users, etc. That would be interesting to compare my discussion posts with yours. --] (]) 02:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::So, you admit that you were insulting sneakily. The examples provided above constitute insults and trolling by any reasonable standard.--] (]) 04:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::: Tigran, it is written as clear as you can see above that I am asking for some examples which indicate any intention or actual insult against any Armenian, other than '''your''' examples which make no sense. It is understandable that you have no other choice, no other card to use against me and out of desperation, you just try to pull out words from me. Keep trying. --] (]) 05:26, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer ]; in fact, I made my edit after ] had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. | |||
::::Adil, you see why you are banned now? Even under a new username, you just can't stop disrupting. Here I'll add one more: ''You are so brainwashed by your own ideology, that you don't give yourself a chance to look at the other side of the paper.'' - ] (]) 06:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. | |||
I think that if there actually is any trolling here, it comes from those users who keep on making baseless accusations of Ehud being a sock of Adil. I would like to specifically draw attention of the admins to the behavior of ], who keeps harassing Ehud, just check his post above mine, where he refers to Ehud as Adil, while he knows perfectly well that those users are unrelated. The comments of Ehud posted here were made in response to such accusations, and he was actually baited to make them and got reported. CU proved that Adil and Ehud are not related: , still harassment of Ehud continues. I would like to ask the admins to put an end to this harassment campaign. ] (]) 08:06, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sameboat==== | |||
Ehud Lesar was baited here, and consequently sunk his teeth in a little. Please stop baiting him; if you believe Ehud Lesar is a banned user, compile your evidence and submit it to be investigated further. Don't make accusations about sock puppetry until it has been proven otherwise you have ]. ] (]) 13:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on ] after the filer's edit on the ] article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- ] (] · ]) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by AlsoWukai==== | |||
Agreed. Correct accusations of abusive sockpuppetry are normally fairly easy to prove. I suggest collecting evidence at either ] or ]. Until then, please follow John V's advice. ] <sup> ]</sup> 13:59, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. ] (]) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Valereeee==== | |||
:Sure, here you go . I started adding the evidence, I will be adding more depending on how much you request if this is not enough. I am really amazed that no one sees anything in Adil's game. The reason I don't want to add all the evidences at once is that, from experience, I know it won’t even be read. - ] (]) 02:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. | |||
I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. ] (]) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: Good job. Thank God. I am personally requesting administrators on this page to pay immediate attention to the above "evidence" of user Fedayee. Moreover, I am specifically requesting admins on this page to track everything related to my account and announce for bothered users that I was not in Baku or any other location the provided by Fedayee user names can be associated with. These groundless accussations and attacks on my personality, my ethnic background, and my contribution to Misplaced Pages must end. Thank you (] (]) 08:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)) | |||
:@], editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue ''with that editor'' has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. ] (]) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Add all the convincing evidence you can find and then tell us to come look. What I see now is not a definitive establishment of sock puppetry. So far, you've established that: | |||
::*Adil has created fake ethnicities for his socks before. | |||
::*Adil can evade checkuser detection. | |||
::But I want more evidence of behavioral similarity than just making similar reverts. The Geycha and Zangezur stuff does not make sense to me. ] ] 20:11, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::Take another look at his behavior. I think this is a give away: ''You're free to be either obsessed with or '''pretty much obviously impressed by him,''' but please stop dragging me into "being" someone I am not just NOT.'' . Geycha does not make sense? It does when only Adil out of every Azerbaijani users here claimed this and when the claim is contradicted by the official Azerbaijani map covering the disputed territories. It makes this claim exclusively Adil's. It was also only Adil turning articles into subjects covering Armenian fictional destructions. Like this: , . Or this more recently . | |||
===Result concerning Selfstudier=== | |||
:::Also, I don't think ''Adil has created fake ethnicities for his socks before'' is all there is to be. Not ponly did he create different ethnicities, but that in three occasions when Ehud left for a considerable lenght of time other socks reappeared and during those occasions sockpuppetry only ceased when Ehud came back. And didn't you find anything suspicious about the fact that Ehud registered hours after Paul August modified the proposed decision of all the members but him and Artaxiad? This coincides with the confirmation that Adil will be banned. | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil. | |||
* The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing. | |||
* The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. ] (]) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. ] (]) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in ] and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best] (]) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in ]? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
==Rasteem== | |||
:::No other person besides Adil lambasted so much about other members being brainwashed by their ideologies like this : ''You are so brainwashed by your own ideology, that you don't give yourself a chance to look at the other side of the paper.'' --<big>''' ] '''</font></big><sup><small>]</sup></small> 23:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Rasteem=== | |||
:::: Dear Admins, I will be more than happy to help you with any questions/queries you might have on this case. I have not been editing in Misplaced Pages for several months due to my busy schedule and as soon as I appeared back, obviously my edits (not even edits but my appearance on talk pages) started irritating the above and other involved Armenian users. I see that all the links they have been posting on this and other admin pages are only targeting to relate me to Adil Bagirov just because he is a banned user: for one simple reason - to get me banned. These same users do not have anything else to use against me (violation of any Misplaced Pages rules). | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::: All the claims with my "appearance" on the dates related to one or another banning, warning, edits, socks of any other banned or paroled users are groundless for one simple reason: This is called Misplaced Pages. Any user comes in at any time he's free and available to help expand Misplaced Pages. I am sure the same can be applied to Armenian users whose timing of appearance, edits, reverts coincide. Go figure now if they are socks or not. Maybe they should provide their timing on Misplaced Pages as well. Secondly, the issue of Geycha and Zangezur is NOT exclusive to Adil Bagirov. It is the history of Caucasus available in many libraries in many countries. If a previous user (Adil Bagirov in our case) has provided this specific information on Misplaced Pages first, that doesn't make any of the next Misplaced Pages users ''with the same information'' '''Adil Bagirovs''' or anyone related to him. We all read and write and get sources from somewhere. Let's then connect all Armenian users to the first Armenian who claimed Nagorno-Karabakh to be Armenian on Misplaced Pages, and let's declare the former to be fake users, shall we? Third, it's your own business of being impressed by Adil Bagirov and his trips to other countries, but I have been a Misplaced Pages user from one computer at one location. Admins can easily check that. | |||
:::: Once again, I am ready to provide the administrators with the requested information so that I am cleared from baseless accussations. (] (]) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log|Rasteem}}</p> | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
==Request for Clarification for ]== | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
{{Report top|Prior arbitration remedies have expired. Ordinary admin action is always permissable, if appropriate to the circumstances. Also, referred to Arbcom for a new case hearing. ] 03:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC) }} | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
* {{userlinks|John Gohde}} | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
* {{userlinks|Mr-Natural-Health}} | |||
# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan. | |||
This user, who was known as ] was subject to ]. Although that ruling is old (2004), it has relevance to his current behavior at ] and ]. Here are some specific behavior issues: | |||
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This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban. | |||
OK, I could go on, and this is a holiday, so I'd rather not be spending hours finding everything just to make a point. What are our choices? ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 17:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:It appears that the remedies in the earlier arbitration case expired three years ago (although it may still be relevant as background). Therefore, any problems with this editor should be pursued through usual ] methods, culminating if necessary in a new request for arbitration. You can also take the situation to ] if you believe there is an issue warranting administrator attention. ] (]) 19:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::I assume that you know more about the process than I. However, several admins, in private discussions with them, recommended this route, since the ruling does not go "sour" after a certain amount of time. Gohde/Mr. Natural Health, being one in the same person, is returning to their old ways. Does that not mean something? And so we're supposed to waste the community's time in going through the whole long process of ANI, RfC, RfArb, etc. etc. etc. Meanwhile, this vile editor continues along his merry way, screwing up the project. I personally don't get it. We spend more time protecting POV warriors than building the project. People like this game the system, using pseudo-legal methods to stay their executions. It's making me less and less and less and less civil about these types of editors. But thanks for your opinion. I know you mean well, but the bureaucracy of this project is no fun. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::For what it's worth, this was one of the first (if not the very first) arbitration cases ever. Most arbitration remedies nowadays are more open-ended. Leaving this here for other thoughts and comments. ] (]) 19:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::That's telling. Gohde was involved with the very first ruling. It figures. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned. | |||
An additional issue is whether John Gohde is even allowed to edit at all at the present time. A condition for him to return may remain unfulfilled, IOW he shouldn't have been unbanned in the first place and should be rebanned. | |||
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
A condition of his ] was : | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction." | |||
* 4.1) ] must read and acknowledge he has read ] and ] and write 200 words each on the implications of having custodians on Misplaced Pages and on the implications of allowing personal attacks on Misplaced Pages before being allowed to edit Misplaced Pages again. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
I have politely requested that he for fulfillment of this condition, but he has refused and . This is not a good faith action, and definitely not collaborative. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Unless he provides proof of fulfillment, he should immediately be returned to limbo. -- <i><b><font color="004000">]</font></b></i> / <b><font color="990099" size="1">]</font></b> 19:38, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:That's a second case that I was not aware of when I wrote my comments above (it is not cited in the original comment from OrangeMarlin). Based on the second case, the "personal attack parole" remains in place at this time. Any alleged violations should be reported to ]. On the other hand, speaking solely for myself, I don't think I would have much of an appetite for enforcing a "write 200 words" type of remedy if I were the administrator at AE. ] (]) 19:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> | |||
::I wish it were easier to find these things. Thank you Fyslee for bringing up the next RfAr. Are there more? ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 20:10, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::] should be a list of all the cases ever decided, and one can do a search for the name of an editor. ] (]) 21:40, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::: Here is his Finding things on him isn't always easy since he constantly engages in revisionism of his editing, and his user page contains hidden comments for his own use. This revisionism even includes improperly changing his article talk page edits, personal attacks, demands, and ownership comments. He simply changes them and thus makes others users' replies seem improper. Instead he should <s>strike them</s> and add a comment so there is no question about what has happened, who did it, and when. Now that he has again been getting in hot water he has begun (one example) he has made. | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
===Discussion concerning Rasteem=== | |||
===Rely to RfC by ]=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
I have had almost no edit contact with ]. So, I am at a total lost as to what motivated Orangemarlin to revert two of my edits and file this request for a clarafication on Christmas day''(which I celebrate)''. I suspect it has something to do with his partisian point of view on CAM. But, I can point out several instances of a behavior issue with this editor: | |||
# | |||
# | |||
#<br/> | |||
-- ] (]) 21:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Rasteem==== | |||
*'''Response''' Edit warring and incivility at ]. Technically, even if the one-year attack parole at ] only took effect after the one year ban expired, the parole expired on 30 April 2007. And John only has one recent block. However, as a matter of common sense, if an editor is sanctioned for poor behavior twice and continues, taking new action should not require clearing an impossibly high bar. '''Blocked for 48 hours''' and recommend filing a new Request for Arbitration if the behavior continues. ] 22:39, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages. | |||
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it. | |||
**Excellent action. Hopefully, he gets the point, but I don't believe that will happen. I'm preparing the RfAr as we speak. Let me respond to the above attack on me, just in case someone actually reads this in the future. I watch numerous Alternative Medicine articles, so I would invariably run across Gohde. I asked for clarification on christmas, since it's a non-holiday to Jews like myself. But what is completely laughable is his accusation of a personal attack on the third diff above. He asked for why I wanted the tags, and I stated so. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 23:11, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it. | |||
I was asked to review this request. He has been using "vandalism" in reference to ] edits, together with numerous ] etc. I'm afraid John has shown no insight into his block, compares it to , and is repeating much of his behaviour from 2004 that got him a ban. His main ''bête noire'' from that time (]) has left Misplaced Pages, but in the few weeks John has been back he's managed to make a whole string of enemies. I have not engaged with him at all, but I am merely observing that a 48-hour block may not reform this editor into healthy editing. ] | ] 07:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days. | |||
: If anyone wants to find good examples of John Gohde's personal attacks and other parole violations, just use the links he posts as examples of personal attacks by other users. They inevitably show that he is the attacking party. His own talk page's history makes an interesting study in the deletion of warnings and good advice, even ridiculing admins when they warn him. This is entirely consistent with <u>'''his stated opinion of admins as "mentally ill individual"'''</u>: ''"The only picture that I get of an Admin at Misplaced Pages is that of a mentally ill individual. In my humble opinion, you cannot have a rational conversation or any kind of a rational exchange of ideas with the mentally ill."'' | |||
2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits. | |||
: Anyone who is in doubt about <u>'''his purpose here'''</u> can read his website description of Misplaced Pages ''"Try to promote any subject matter on Misplaced Pages and you will quickly get the attention of at least one of these mentally ill admins. I promoted Alternative Medicine all too well."'' ''"I actually accomplished what I had originally intended to do at Misplaced Pages, on day one, before I even set up a user name. But, I was so quickly attacked by hordes of Wikipedians so bent on destroying what I had edited that I decided to stick around a whole lot longer. One thing lead to another, and I ended up promoting alternative medicine in general."'' He isn't here to write in an NPOV manner, but to "promote alternative medicine." '''Advocacy''' is forbidden here. It's rather odd that he accuses others of being "partisan", when he himself is probably one of the most "partisan" editors at Misplaced Pages and repeatedly reveals ] sentiments as part of his attacks on other editors. Needless to say an awful lot of diffs will be forthcoming if this ends up in an ArbCom. | |||
3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits. | |||
: Speaking of an ArbCom, I believe it is unnecessary in this case as there are enough issues already on the table to justify a community ban. An ArbCom will only provide him with an even larger soapbox and will defeat the purpose of dispute resolution, which is to avoid disruption of Misplaced Pages. If this were a doubtful situation, then an ArbCom would be in order, but it's not doubtful at all. It would be an enormous disruption of Misplaced Pages and waste of time to go there. Please just be courageous, act on the evidence, and end this miserable situation in an expeditious manner, IOW short and quick. No one but those who deserve a similar fate will complain. -- <i><b><font color="004000">]</font></b></i> / <b><font color="990099" size="1">]</font></b> 08:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
:::OK, comparing himself to a woman who was raped and received lashes is just disgusting. This editor needs to be banned permanently along with his numerous socks. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 17:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning Rasteem=== | |||
* Speaking as one of the few (I am guessing) admins who is actually provably mentally ill, at least in as much as depression is classifiable as such, I believe that John Gohde has by now painted himself so far into the corner that there is no hope for him. His edits, his comments and his website all make it pretty clear that he is one of those individuals for whom ] is of paramount importance, and anything that stands in the way of The Truth™ is necessarily evil. Sadly, The Truth™ in this case equates to a minority point of view, which makes the tension between Gohde and Misplaced Pages essentially unfixable. Whether he is blocked, banned or sent to ArbCom, I think the outcome will probably be the same. ArbCom would have the merit of probably only banning him from one topic area, but that does seem to be the only area in which he's interested. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 12:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!-- | |||
--> | |||
*Adding to {{u|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==שלומית ליר== | |||
::::As someone who was brought to this article and user page accidentally by an editor asking me if I used CAM, I had to find out what it meant first. I asked another editor and got responses by a few editors and links to the article and to the talk page . I found that the talk page was totally uncivil and that user was telling editors not to listen to other editors and bringing up unnecessary cases that did nothing useful except to inflame situations going on. Reverts seem to be aimed at editors that were trying for balance with notations that the editor being reverted either was a vandal or worse. I have only watched what is going on the past week or so and I have not edited at these sites at all. When I came across this I asked why this kind of page was allowed as it was a list that appeared to be set up for attacks of a few editors. For the record, this last notes page was recently deleted by its owner. I find that this article in general is just a repeat of current articles just trying to get a point a view from the alternate side and not a balanced view in total. I also questioned why the whole article wasn't set up for a speedy delete. Deleting this article I think would help prevent the smoldering of sides that this article is receiving. Of course this is just my opinion as an outside view of things. I think this editor needs to be polite and let all sides post without feeling intimidated. I also think this article should be considered for a speedy delete. This of course is just how I saw things. I could post diffs but I think there is enough posted above to show the problems that are stated. --]] 15:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
{{hat | |||
| result = ] is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. ] (]) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
}} | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
* His first contribution to a talk page after his block was over appears to be an admission of ignorance over what proper editing is all about. . Seems like he's just asking for an indefinite block. --] (]) 19:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Nableezy}} 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* His second contribution to a talk page after his latest block is harassment --] (]) 19:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log|שלומית ליר}}</p> | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
::To ]: I wonder if the ] has an entry on ]s? Anyway, as per ], this may not be where this case is ultimately decided, but I'd like to voice my opnion in the meantime as well. I've been watching ] on and off myself for a few weeks (and also remember him from 3 years ago) and have left several civility warnings on his talk page. Those warnings were removed by him without response and then a line was put at the top of his talk page saying that he would "delete" any edits he found insulting or threatening. All through his interactions with other editors on Misplaced Pages he tends to question the people whom he disagrees with about their personal motives rather than the technical nature of their complaints, viz the tendentious questioning of ] on this page. Those sorts of ]s, and a stated pro alt med agenda, lead to problematic interaction, especially when dealing with his opposite number(s) from the sceptical side. I am glad he is coming (again) to community attention, and I support vigorous sanctions if other admins agree. --] (]) 22:07, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::: See. I would call this the 2nd so-called warning on my talk page. Not only had I already changed my behavior way before your comment, you posted nothing to respond to. Compare your comments with this Adm who actually gave me something to respond to. Your comments are way off base. You comments are yet more complaining about something that I had already stopped doing long ago. -- ] (]) 02:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::Since I said specifically that I was warning you, the issue of what you choose call my warnings is moot. You didn't reply to the warnings at all, you simply removed them from your talk page without discussion. You didn't send me a message at any point. You have the right to do that, and I have the right to consider those removals without comment a sign of dismissal on your part. I also have the right to an opinion, and I also have the responsibility to protect the greater Misplaced Pages public from abusive editors. I'm not commenting on your content disputes, my warnings and my opinions here are comments on your behaviour. It is your opinion that you have changed your behaviour, mine is otherwise, as exemplified by your gloating in a talkpage section headline ('''Ha, .. Hah, Ha!''') when you thought someone had been digging up dirt on another editor with whom you were in dispute. I'm not concerned about your content issues, I don't give a fig about alt med or pseudoscience or Quackwatch. I don't want to block you, I don't want you to go away. I think you can make valuable contributions to Misplaced Pages. The dismissiveness and the tone you deliver it with has to stop, however, or you ''will'' eventually be blocked permanently. I invite you to change my opinion. --] (]) 03:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Nothing about about your comment indicated that a reply was needed. Like I just wrote, your comment came after I had already corrected my behavior. So, I fail to see what there was to reply to. As far as I am concerned, during my 3rd stay at Misplaced Pages I did not participate at any time in an edit war. Okay, I managed to do 3 reverts in one day, but nothing about that indicated an edit war to me. I am perfectly happy with the current state of affairs at Misplaced Pages. I am happy with the current state of all the articles that I have edited. Things could hardly be better as far as the state of Complementary and Alternative Medicine articles go on Misplaced Pages. What everybody is constantly complaining about is totally beyond me. No edit wars are currently going on. I did no reverts today. I did not do very much editing either because everything has been pretty much successfully completed. And, so it goes. My job on my 3rd stay at Misplaced Pages has been successfully completed. Have a nice day. -- ] (]) 03:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
====Rely to RfC by ]-Amendments==== | |||
#] claiming a source supports something it never mentions | |||
I find it totally incongruous that Orangemarlin knows the differences between being "cautioned" versus "put on probation" for RfCs, but did not know that the remedies in the earlier 2004 arbitration case had expired some three years ago. | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
Orangemarlin reverted two of my edits on Christmas Day, which I celebrate (see my original reply for their ''diffs''), so that he could report to "ArbCom of editor's behavior" in order to seek remedies for the 2004 ruling. At the time of Orangemarlin's reverts there was clearly no edit war going on. In fact, I had stopped editing ] for a few days since I had been mainly editing the ] article,. Furthermore, Having wised up to the editing tactics of the editors posting complaints on my talk page, I had been for approximately two weeks extremely careful not to post anything that might be construed as a personal attack. So, at the time of the filing of this specific RfC I was being very civil to everyone. | |||
N/A | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
So, I rightfully ask ''why'' Orangemarlin went out of his way on Christmas Day which I celebrate to revert two of my edits and to file this RfC? In my opinion, there is only one possible answer: Orangemarlin was intentionally using his two reverts along with his RfC as an ''editing tactic'' that would keep me from editing ] for a couple of days. In order to gain an editing advantage on ] that would allow Orangemarlin to make changes that never reached any consensus in the respective talk page. | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on ] (see the system log linked to above). | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
Since this RfC was filed specifically in reference to the 2004 ruling, no subsequent rulings or blocks should be taken into consideration for this specific request of Orangemarlin. -- ] (]) 20:29, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled . They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the , and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "expla'''nator'''y, twice and coordi'''nato'''r once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see ]), added another source that supposedly supports the material, paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are , though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. ''']''' - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but ] was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. ''']''' - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. ''']''' - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::According to , the insertion of that source was ], the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from {{tq|in the article's edit history}} is ''after'' the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. ''']''' - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. ''']''' - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. ''']''' - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
:You have managed to dig yourself one of the deepest holes in Misplaced Pages's history (which is saying quite a bit). That you find yourself unable to refrain from digging further is unfortunate. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 05:15, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
] | |||
===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by שלומית ליר==== | |||
:: John, this is another distraction. This RfC is about your current behavior (and only that). | |||
The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. | |||
During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. | |||
:: There are other rulings (mentioned above) that still apply, regardless of the opening comments of this RfC. Not only that, but current policies also apply, and your numerous violations of them are more than enough to get you blocked (that has happened enough without the desired results) or banned, without any type of current ArbCom happening (which causes even more disruption) or resorting to past ArbCom rulings. | |||
Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. | |||
:: The most worrying thing here is that you fail to understand why so many are complaining about you. This also applies to your interactions elsewhere on the internet, where you leave a nasty trail behind you, are constantly in conflict with others, and also get banned. A simple of your name turns up some very telling information. An attitude that everyone else is wrong and that only you are right is problematic. Your stated attitude towards Misplaced Pages admins (that they are "mentally ill" - documented above) reveals so serious conflicts between your basic attitudes about Misplaced Pages and the purposes of Misplaced Pages, its policies, and the congenial and collaborative editing environment we want to have here, that I doubt you are capable of ever being anything other than a disruptive, contentious editor who sees Misplaced Pages as his own property to be used for advocacy. | |||
I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. | |||
:: I find it quite interesting that Way back then he realized what a danger you were to the project, and history has proved him right. -- <i><b><font color="004000">]</font></b></i> / <b><font color="990099" size="1">]</font></b> 05:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.] (]) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::John was actually asking a real question? I thought he was being sarcastic. I'm shocked (said with veritable mountains of sarcasm). I didn't go out of my way to do anything. I was bored on Christmas Day because it has no meaning to me, I was editing, because I know vandals with new computers come out in the loads full. I was doing some checking into John Gohde, found out he had a sock that got the first ArbCom ruling, and voila, I'm here. Nothing more sinister than that. And the whole you've dug is so deep, I don't think they have internet service down there. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 05:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself. | |||
* OK, I think we're done here. It is absolutely apparent that John Gohde sees himself as a bearer of ], this is obvious from his user page, his user talk, and his off-wiki activism. He likens himself to a woman who was sentenced harshly for being raped. John , you're wrong. As largely an outsider to this dispute I would say he is a ], ], querulous to a fault and completely unwilling to accept that any criticism of him is valid. The only question is whether we need a user conduct RfC before moving to ArbCom, I believe we do but only to establish that John's behaviour is not significantly different from that which led to sanction in the previous arbitration case. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 11:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process. | |||
:To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit ] (]) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: <small>(moved from V93's comment)</small> It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: ''<nowiki/>'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence,'' and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), ''Hamas and Human Rights'', ''Hamas Rule in Gaza'', New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17. | |||
* See ]. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 18:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself. | |||
::'''Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation''' ] (]) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:While I see your point, '''the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode.''' | |||
*:I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions. | |||
*:. ] (]) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. ] (]) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
*:::True, and I would most definitely will check next time. ] (]) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==Request for Clarification for ]== | |||
====Statement by Supreme Deliciousness==== | |||
{{report top|This report closed with no action. ] 03:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
Valereee created the article ]. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--] (]) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
In ], the following decision was made by the Arbitration committee: | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
<blockquote>2.1) {{userlinks|Ferrylodge}} is subject to an editing restriction indefinitely. Any uninvolved administrator may ban Ferrylodge from any article which relates to pregnancy or abortion, interpreted broadly, which they disrupt by inappropriate editing. | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
:''Passed 6 to 1 at 23:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)</blockquote> | |||
===Result concerning שלומית ליר=== | |||
If I might interpret broadly, Ferrylodge is violating this agreement on the article ], which definitely relates to pregnancy and abortion. Here are some of the most abusive edits: | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. ] (]) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the ] horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). ] (]) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
**:I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***: I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. ] (]) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::To my reading it would be directly justified by ] point 2: {{tq| ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic}} <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
***::] is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ] (]) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*: I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced ]. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the ] its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly. | |||
*: I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. ] (]) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) ] (]) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. ] (]) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. ] (]) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. ] (]) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. ] (]) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:{{u|שלומית ליר}}, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. '''Do not comment outside your own section again.''' ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:: Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. ] (]) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::I still don't ''love'' the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give ] one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. ] (]) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
* I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. ] (]) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
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==KronosAlight== | |||
*. These images are not medically oriented, and are used by Pro-Lifers to show the fetus as something more than a collection of cells. (Note well, of all of my edits, you will find no indication of my POV on abortion, since I keep my viewpoint very private.) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
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===Request concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
He should be blocked again. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 18:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log|KronosAlight}}</p> | |||
:I see a pretty basic discussion about the inclusion of images that is progressing in the correct manner. Yes, the edit war would have best been avoided but I wouldn't class this as "disrupt by inappropriate editing" and therefore wouldn't agree with a block. ] ] 18:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::Go with the wording, "interpreted broadly". He was disruptive even without interpretation. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 18:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::The "interpreted broadly" clause refers to whether an article "relates to pregnancy or abortion", not to the disruption. ] ] 20:04, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::Valid point, but it doesn't mean he should get away with disruptions of articles. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 20:08, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
* The onus is on the editor seeking to include disputed content, to achieve consensus for its inclusion. Ferrylodge, who has an extremely strong POV, long-standing issues with POV-pushing and edit-warring, is aggressively pushing for disputed content that supports his POV. I would say this is pretty unambiguous. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 20:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
::Guy, if I may ask: where was I pushing to "include disputed content"? I thought I was seeking to restore longstanding content that was removed without consensus, and which has since been . As far as I know, I was not seeking to include any new content at all.] (]) 23:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
::: In the diffs cited you were edit-warring over disputed content. You are not allowed to do that, per the arbitration restriction. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 23:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::As I said, the images have been in the article for many months. Since when is the "onus" on an editor who is seeking to restore stable, well-sourced, longstanding content that was removed without discussion or consensus?] (]) 23:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::{{user|IronAngelAlice}} has a history of POV pushing of her own, for example see and is virtually a SPA on feminist topics. I see no reason why Alice should be able to remove those images with an entirely spurious reason (''These images are not medically oriented, and are used by Pro-Lifers to show the fetus as something more than a collection of cells.'') but FL should be restricted from replacing images which had sat comfortably in the article for 4 months. ] 23:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
::::::Incidentally, I agreed with IronAgeAlice. , "If these drawings are not medically accurate then they should be removed." But she produced no evidence of inaccuracy at all.] (]) 23:53, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
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:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ]. | |||
:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context. | |||
:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ] | |||
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:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite | |||
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:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers" | |||
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::::::: I was the one who restored the images to the article. I don't know a whole lot about the background on this Ferrylodge business, but the images at the Fetus article were medically accurate. I checked with other medical sites and with sonograms to make sure. When I found that they were conclusively accurate and brought a greater dimension to the article, I restored them. Like Ferrylodge stated these pictures were in the article for months, and were deleted by an editor that I warned for repeated POV edits and vandalism. If you take a look at this list of edits made by IronAngelAlice you will see a consistent pattern. I don't throw the vandal and POV warning out a lot. I work hard to develop consensus in my contributions. I am currently doing so on another page. In this instance, I don't see destructive POV from Ferrylodge as it relates to those images. The images were not from an anti-abortion site, nor were they placed there to invoke anti-abortion sentiments. Instead, they help illustrate the development of a Fetus. My biology textbook from college had very similar drawings and photographs. ] (]) 04:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Ghostmonkey57 | |||
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# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. | |||
# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ] | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
*I have a problem with the characterization of FerryLodge's conduct as disruptive. A lot of that depends on context and on the point of view of the other editors. Taking a look at the cited examples: | |||
:: characterized as "''These images are not medically oriented, and are used by Pro-Lifers to show the fetus as something more than a collection of cells.''" This comment strikes me as odd. Isn't it essentially correct that the embryo is defined as a fetus when it has developed to a certain point? () These drawings do not come from a partisan pro-life web site but from a commercial site for expectant mothers that seels advertising. (As such, the links should perhaps be removed, however). Is there a question about there accuracy, and in that case, has anyone tried to find images from medical or scientific sources? The rationale for complaining about these images seems extremely suspect, and the idea that an article on ] will describe but not illustrate the stages of fetal development seems to be an extreme point of view of its own. | |||
:: Described as a POV edit; without a citation it appears to be original research (a conclusion drawn from other facts) but it appears a statement reasonably founded in the text of the article itself (). As a conclusion, it should be sourced to reliable non-partisan source (medical textbook, etc) but calling it a "POV edit" only applies I think if you have a very different POV. | |||
:: Again, why is it POV to cite factual information about the various stages of fetal development? It would be better to cite the relevant mainstream medical literature, and not a controversial figure such as Peter Singer, but if the relevant medical literature supports this statement, why not include it in a list of fetal milestones? | |||
::Regarding , also labeled "POV pushing", talk page discussion by partisans on both sides of an issue is part of the process of arriving at NPOV middle ground and consensus. Talk page disruption is behavior that prevents other editors from working together; that does not seem to be the case here, and the point FL raised (abortion is a procedure performed on a mother and a fetus) seems as least reasonable to raise for discussion. | |||
:With respect to Guy, FerryLodge may be aggressively seeking to include disputed content (the brainstem activity, drawings of different stages of fetal development) to serve an agenda, but it seems to me that aggressively seeking to remove such content serves the opposite agenda, and if one is not to be tolerated than neither is the other. Again, I can not see how the article on ] can not have drawings of different stages of development (assuming they are accurate) and I do not understand why is is ''not'' objectionable to state "At nine weeks, the fetus is able to bend fingers around an object; in response to a touch on the foot, the fetus will bend the legs or curl the toes to move away from the object." but it ''is'' objectionable to state "Brain stem activity has been detected as early as 54 days after conception." | |||
:Regarding the enforcement request, I do not see sufficient evidence of disruptive behavior to emplace an article ban at this time. ] 23:38, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::''Any uninvolved administrator may ban Ferrylodge from any article which relates to pregnancy or abortion, interpreted broadly, which they disrupt by inappropriate editing.'' Sounds like it says he may be banned from an article, which discussion should be held here. It says nothing about blocking. ] (]) 23:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::Blocking is used to enforce article bans. The specific enforcement clause seems to have been left out of this case, but that is the usual practice and there is no reason to ignore it here on a technicality. ] 23:49, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::It is not a technicality. ''Should we agree that this is necessary'', we say "Ferrylodge, stop editing the article". Simple as that. Of course, blocks are used to enforce bans; but no ban is put in place. ] (]) 23:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::You should read up on some other Arbitration cases. In many many cases, admins are authorized to place discretionary topic bans. Violation of such bans are enforced by blocking. In this case, FL may be banned from any abortion-related article he disrupts by any uninvolved administrator, for a set period of time or indefinitely. If a ban is posted to his talk page and logged appropriately, and he then continues to edit in violation of the ban, he may be blocked. Usually, the blocking language says something like "''Should any user subject to an editing restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be briefly blocked, up to a week in the event of repeated violations. After 5 blocks, the maximum block shall increase to one year.''" In this case, Arbcom neglected to pass such an enforcement clause, but I would have no hesitation in issuing blocks if necessary, because otherwise the ban is meaningless. At this time, no article bans have been imposed, see ]. ] 00:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}. | |||
:::::Thatcher, I'm sorry to bother you with this on Xmas, but are you saying that I will be completely banned from Misplaced Pages if it is decided that I should be banned from a particular article related to abortion or pregnancy? My impression was that I would simply stop editing that particular article, rather than being completely banned from Misplaced Pages. I was unblocked for the entire, miserable ArbCom proceeding in my case, and yet I did not edit a single article, because I was instructed not to do so. If I'm authoritatively ordered in the future to not edit a particular article, then of course I wouldn't edit that article, even if I think the order is rubbish.] (]) 00:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on . | |||
::::::No, see above. ] 00:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
:::::::Thx. Incidentally, I stumbled on this discussion by accident. Isn't there some rule or custom that the subject of the discussion ought to be made aware of it?] (]) 00:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale. | |||
::::::::When the original complaint was made at ], you should have been notified of the discussion, ideally by the complaintant. I later moved it here, and by the time I had finished looking it over you had responded. For any editor named in an Arbitration remedy, this is probably a page you should watchlist. ] 01:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?" | |||
They then | |||
::Thatcher, I don't disagree in respect of content, but in respect of Ferrylodge, it is clearly the case that a militant promoter of an agenda, under an arbitration restriction, is absolutely the wrong person to be fighting that particular battle. He needs to take it to talk, not edit war. That is, to my reading, the whole point. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 00:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area. | |||
:::Guy, if you're going to characterize me as a "militant promoter of an agenda" then I would appreciate if you would cite a diff, preferably a recent one. I deny it. Restoring longstanding, sourced images of a fetus in an article titled "]" is militant promotion of an agenda? Come on. That was not the least bit "inappropriate" on my part.] (]) 00:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::OK, guys. I have a proposal. It is not radical, it makes sense, I would hope that people would be willing to abide by it. I worry, however, that people will be more interested in simply blocking Ferrylodge than agreeing to a solution. Ferrylodge is limited to one revert per day at Fetus for a period of 12 months. Ferrylodge may not make any more reverts on Fetus for a period of one week from now. Any admin who wishes to enforce this may. Unfortunately, as I said, I worry people will not think this is enough. ] (]) 00:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Frankly, I'd rather just be banned from the article. I did nothing wrong there. I restored material that had been there for many months and that was properly sourced. I didn't violate 3RR. I tried to engage in discussion at the talk page. After I was unsuccessful at restoring the images, I let it go, rather than be disruptive. Another user restored the images, not me.] (]) 00:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::Understandably. You made some changes and let it go, and the same people whose own views are as extreme as your own on the opposite end of the spectrum are hounding to see you blocked. So is it official then? <s>Would an admin just pronounce the words "Ferrylodge is banned from the article ] for a period of (6 months|1 year|indefinitely)"</s> so we can close this thread and get it over with? <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:50, 26 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
::::::::Thatcher and Violetriga already indicated above that I have done nothing to warrant a ban here. Why do you disagree, Evil Spartan? All of the stuff I did at ] recently was '''''restoring''''' longstanding, well-sourced material that was being deleted without consensus.] (]) 00:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Good point. This was not at all "disrupt by inappropriate editing", as arbcom said must happen. It is simply one user's frustration that Ferrylodge is editing the same article as himself. Restoring content is not disruptive, except to people who want to see it removed in the first place. ] (]) 01:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*In response to both Guy and Evil Spartan, yes there will likely be problems whenever FerryLodge gets involved in situations like this. It would be better for FerryLodge to find someone who does not carry the same baggage to deal with situations such as the removal of the fetus illustrations, either be contacting a friend or through a content RFC or request for third opinion. However, that was not ''required'' by the decision. It would be a good idea for FerryLodge to observe a voluntary 1 revert limit on all the articles he edits, and look for assistance if more than one revert is needed to deal with the dispute. However, that was also not mandated. What is left is that FerryLodge is free to edit until an uninvolved admin decides he has been disruptive and lodges an article ban. Bear in mind that admins have different standards of "disruption", so it would be an excellent defense to be able to point out that one had observed a voluntary 1RR limit and it was the ''other'' editor who was disruptive. ] 01:27, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Thatcher, are you volunteering as "someone who does not carry the same baggage"? :-) | |||
::'''No.''' ] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Believe me, I would like nothing better than to dump these contentious situations in someone else's lap. The main obstacle, I suppose, is the Misplaced Pages policy against canvassing; I'm not supposed to go looking for people to back me up, right? I certainly would not be inclined to do a voluntary 1RR on articles that are not even pertinent to my ArbCom restriction. Regarding articles that ''are'' pertinent to the ArbCom restriction, I'm kind of ambivalent. This particular thread, for example, seems kind of frivolous, and yet there does not seem to be any penalty or other drawback for people who seek to bring frivolous complaints against me. If there were such a penalty or drawback, then I doubt there would be any reason for us to even be talking about a voluntary 1RR.] (]) 01:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::There is a difference (sometimes subtle) between asking people for help and canvassing. ] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Your bold font is noted. I don't want to create another mess here, that leads to people accusing me of disruptive and inapproriate canvassing. As you say, the distinction between canvassing and asking for help is sometimes subtle. In contrast, there is no subtlety about the propriety of restoring longstanding and well-sourced material that has been deleted without consensus, and yet look at the hot water I'm in right now. Sheesh. Does every frivolous complaint against me have to result in some "compromise" that further whittles away what I can do at Misplaced Pages? I'd be glad to make some good-faith inquiries regarding "someone who does not carry the same baggage" as I do, but I do not expect the inquiries to be met with any enthusiasm, given the spectre of canvassing. Isn't it enough that you can permanently ban me from any abortion/pregnancy article if I violate 3RR, and even if I don't violate 3RR but edit in an inappropriately disruptive way?] (]) 01:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::The bold font was merely a personal expression. I strongly dislike editing articles that are targets of partisan bickering on any side. As to your situation, it is one that many editors find themselves in after Arbitration. Some do well enough that they are able to successfully petition for early release, so to speak. Others do not. The Arbitration case is ''intended'' to put a damper on your previous behavior, but not to make you a target for baseless complaints. Ultimately how you edit and how you respond to these situations is up to you. Eventually, stronger action could be taken against a serial bad faith complaintant, but it is much too early for that here. ] 02:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::I hope to continue Wikipeding appropriately, and the prospect of early release is certainly an incentive. I'm sorry if using all the tools legitimately available to me results in more complaints against me. Even if I never reverted anyone, I'm sure the complaints would continue. (Believe it or not, I too don't much like editing articles that are targets of partisan bickering.) ANYhow, Happy Holidays and New Year. :-)] (]) 02:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:: Thatcher, I absolutely agree. A voluntary 1RR restriction would be a big step forward, and Ferrylodge should recognise that simply by being the person making the edit he is going to cause a certain amount of friction at the moment, so if the edit is as uncontentious as he clearly believes it to be then he really should take it to talk where I am sure it will achieve consensus one way or the other almost immediately, given the number of interested editors, thus removing the problem. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 11:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::I'm not quite sure why Ferrylodge should have to limit himself to 1RR after doing nothing wrong for common sense reverts simply because a user who is even more POV-pushy and uncivil than he makes a report in order to get a one-up in an edit dispute. I'm not sure we shouldn't just shut the thread and ask OrangeMarlin to stop asking for a block every time Ferrylodge has the chutzpah to undo one of his edits. ] (]) 11:21, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Right. Ferrylodge is on probation. Not me. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 17:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Oh, a little more here. I know you're capable of reading, so maybe you should take a look at the ArbCom conversation about Ferrylodge. Or how about his nice little RfC about Bishonen which got the support of one person, and the antagonism of probably 50 other editors, although we did enjoy the food commentary. Or how bout the 20 people wrote against him. And as for your personal attack, thanks. I always like saving personal attacks for future reference when necessary. You see, I use the system to stop POV-warriors. Oh, BTW, Ferrylodge, being a christian pov-pusher, would never have Chutzpah. I, being a good Jew, get to use that word. No more anti-semitism from you. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 17:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::OrangeMarlin, your accusations of anti-semitism against Evil Spartan are completely baseless, but nevertheless are typical fare for you. Moreover, I am not a Christian, and I am not pro-life. Of course, I'll probably be thrown in solitary confinement for daring to correct you.] (]) 17:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::He doesn't ''have'' to. However, multiple reverting is not an accepted method of editing (see ]), and a voluntary 1RR would make it less likely that FerryLodge would get caught up in future enforcement action. ] 15:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::: Exactly. It's a prudent piece of self-discipline for an editor under a restriction of this sort. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 15:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::So, if IronAngelAlice reverts longstanding, well-sourced content against consensus, and refuses to provide any plausible explanation, then you are suggesting that I not revert more than once, and when she reverts me back, I should do nothing. I do not have time to go through infinite dispute resolution procedures. Can't anyone say, "Thank you Ferrylodge, for restoring longstanding sourced content that was reverted without consensus by an editor who refused to provide a plausible explanation?" I was standing up to a bully here, without violating any Misplaced Pages policies.] (]) 16:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Well, IronAngelAlice hasn't been put on probation for edit-warring, personal attacks, and whatever else you've done (including attacking admins like Bishonen). So I guess you're going to have to live with your dirty deeds. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 17:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::::IronAngelAlice does have a note on his/her user page that notes that the account is a sockpuppet and that the user has used one or more accounts abusively. Doesn't that count for something? ] (]) 17:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Ghostmonkey57 | |||
:::::::::Then haver the user blocked. My point was that IAA is not the subject of this enforcement, only Ferrylodge. So no, it has no value. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::This is a frivolous request, OrangeMarlin.] (]) 19:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::So there we go, we're in agreement. But you on the other hand, should be blocked. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:27, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Could someone point to diffs showing where FL violated even a 1RR much less came close to a 3RR? I've looked through the revision history of ] in the last month. I see a total of 5 edits (single edits or a consecutive group of edits) by FL. The first was to restore images that (by all accounts) had long been part of the article. Then he restored a sentence while adding a reference. He restored a completely different sentence that was already sourced. He inserted a comment in a different place. And finally he added a ref and fixed a missing ref in yet a different paragraph. Sorry, I just don't see the beef. ] (]) 00:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::''Could someone point to diffs showing where FL violated even a 1RR'' | |||
:''I see a total of 5 edits''...''the first was to restore images''..."Restore" = "revert"...''Then he restored a sentence''...Two reverts, by your own admission...''He restored a completely different sentence''...The 3RR applies to any three reverts. You have documented three reverts. That's a lot of edit warring for someone who is under arbcomm restriction. ] (]) 06:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::"I see" said the blind man (to his deaf wife). What I saw was single reverts in totally different areas. I (mis)understood that 3RR was reverting the same material more than three times. In most ] complaints this is what I see - as many as eight reverts to the identical material. I did not realize that 3RR meant any three reverts in the same article even if in different places. If I (a moderately experienced editor) made that mistake then probably other editors also misunderstand the policy. ] (]) 15:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
::::Please note: under any definition, I did not violate 3RR here.] (]) 17:49, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
::::: Three reverts is a limit, not an entitlement, and ] about the exact number of reverts or the period is, and always has been, ''right out'' - ''whoever'' you are. You are under a restriction for tendentious editing, you are editing a subject on which you have a very strong POV, you are up against people who are seriously pissed off with you, and if you don't have the good sense to recognise good advice when it's offered by neutral parties such as Thatcher then there's probably not much hope for you. If, on the other hand, you can take a deep breath, accept that the world will not actually stop turning if your POV is slightly less than 100% represented for a few hours, and take it to talk in a civil and dignified manner, you will leave your opponents with no sticks with which to beat you. The choice is yours. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
Look the point here is that FL is showing '''bad judgement'''. If I was on probation for editing, say, ] articles in a contentious way and getting into huge fights and driving off other editors and all kinds of other trouble, then I think I would stay away from those articles. I do not care if it is 1RR. I do not care if it is 0RR. It is a very very bad idea for FL to show himself around those articles. It is likely to lead to trouble. And I personally am unfit to judge whether those images constitute disruptive editing or not; I would rely on someone who is a longstanding editor of those articles and consensus. But even if they are not ], it is a bad bad idea. And it really smells bad from here. It looks like the camel's nose under the tent.--] (]) 05:52, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by KronosAlight==== | |||
:FYI, I started an hour or so ago, regarding OrangeMarlin.] (]) 06:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
:FYI, the ] article has been fully protected by an admin, and the admin explained .] (]) 07:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’. | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind. | |||
==FerryLodge, continued == | |||
{{report top|The arbitration decision is limited to articles and topics related to abortion. For other issues, the normal dispute resolution mechanisms should be followed (RFC, third opinion, mediation). ] 06:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC) }} | |||
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims. | |||
*] | |||
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers? | |||
I believe FL again has made uncivil comments on talk pages. And this is particularly notable because they occurred while similar concerns were being brought up here. FL is not trying hard to avoid the personal attacks, even when there is this scrutiny over his editing. I bring up two cases: and . The first, FL says "I'm sure if Romney robbed banks with his father, then Qworty would be supporting as much detail as possible." There is no reason to speculate on what another editor would or would not support, especially when it is a hypothetical situation that involves disparaging a public figure. The comment would have been fine if that entire sentence was simply not there. Again, there is no reason to make accusatory statements about other editors on talk pages. The second example should be read completely (or even ]). He links to an inflamatory statement another user said about Odd nature 3 months ago. This is similar to when FL brought up another editor's political party affiliation by linking to off-site content (). These are all uncivil things, and should never have occurred on article talk pages. I'm writing this because I know FL will read it, and hopefully he will take it to heart and attempt to change. As I've said over and over this past month. Comment on content, not on users. I apologize that this isn't exactly related to the ArbCom enforcement (I will also note that the comments to Odd nature that happened today were in relation to Roe v. Wade, which is clearly related to abortion, although the article itself is ]), but incivility is still a blockable offense, that I ask to be considered by an uninvolved admin. -] </sup>]] 22:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.” | |||
:I object to Andrew c bringing up these insubstantial matters. Already on December 20 at this page, Andrew c “an uninvolved admin to review this case and possibly ban him from Roe v. Wade.” That request was rejected. Now Andrew c is back on December 26 with more. | |||
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers. | |||
:Andrew c now raises three cases, which all occurred at the talk page of the article about ], and two of which have absolutely nothing whatseoever to do with abortion or pregnancy (which is the only type of issue addressed by the ArbCom decision in my case).... | |||
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing. | |||
:First, was completely unrelated to abortion or pregnancy. Andrew c also takes that comment out of context. I said, “I'm sure if Romney robbed banks with his father, then Qworty would be supporting as much detail as possible. :-)” Note the smiley face at the end. No one complained or objected about this humorous comment then, nor during the time period from then until now. The person who I made the comment to (Qworty) had --- with no prompting from me --- that he is not a Republican, and Qworty had also argued at great length that we should insert detail into the Mitt Romney article about Romney's alleged Mormon underwear. My brief comment about robbing banks ought to be viewed in that context. It was a humorous remark completely unrelated to abortion or pregnancy, and so I do not understand why Andrew c is bringing it up here. | |||
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’. | |||
:Second, Andrew c brings up which ''was'' tangentially related to abortion and pregnancy. . Andrew c objects to the fact that I linked “to an inflamatory statement another user said about Odd nature 3 months ago.” The was an appropriate warning to Odd nature for . I do not know why Odd nature showed up at the Mitt Romney article today to revert me, but I felt it would be appropriate to mention to Odd nature that “I hope we can have an unusually productive discussion here” in view of our past difficulties. There was nothing uncivil at all. It is ironic that one of the people accusing me here today can make wild accusations of antisemitism without the slightest repercussion, and yet Andrew c objects to me even suggesting the possibility that a user (Odd nature) may have previously behaved inappropriately toward me, which he most certainly did. | |||
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself. | |||
:Third, Andrew c brings up in which I referred to another editor's political party affiliation by linking to off-site content. And again, this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with pregnancy or abortion, so Andrew c has no reason to bring it up here, unless his purpose is to rewrite the ArbCom decision. Please note that the other editor’s user page prominently has a link to the off-site content in question, calling it “my brush with fame.” So, I was not revealing any secrets. All I did was to Qworty that the other editor is not a Republican, because I thought Qworty might find that interesting, seeing as how Qworty had that he himself is not a Republican. There was nothing uncivil, and I explained the same thing .] (]) 23:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time. | |||
::I will address the last item as it involved me: I do not accept this explanation. There were 3 days and ''over 160 edits'' to that talk page in between ''about himself'' that he is not a Republican, and about what the Washington Post article (that he was also featured in) said about my being a Democrat. It is hardly believable that he thought at that point in time out of the blue that it would be "interesting" to mention my nominal political affiliation (the article also said that I had not decided who I am supporting in this election) in a comment in which he also characterized my editing. I was not a party to the discussion in that section of the talk page, and Qworty wasn't talking about not being a Republican then or there, yet Ferrylodge brought me into it saying this: | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
:::''"If we're going to keep this religion section, it ought to go at the end. Other candidates don't have such a section, and this material is not the most important stuff about him. But Tvoz insisted that it be up front, and accused me of trying to bury it (Tvoz is a by the way)." '' | |||
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::In what universe is it believable that this was said just to provide an interesting side comment about my voter registration status? I believe it was a personal attack - it seems clear that it was an insinuation that my so-called "insisting" and "accusation" about the location of this material was politically motivated. The point was incorrect to boot - I was only one of the people who thought that placement made the most sense in the context of the article - indeed, it was a compromise solution that I helped create and which we ''reached consensus on'' to have the religious background section appear as the second section of the article, which broke the logjam and allowed the full protection of the page to be lifted. This is explained . This is not the first time that Ferrylodge has made irrelevant and gratuitous personal comments about me, and it is disturbing that this also went on during and now after the arbitration proceeding. Despite the fact that ArbCom chose to focus only on his tendentious editing of reproduction-related articles rather than also cautioning him about his similarly tendentious editing of political articles, I think it is impossible that they were giving him carte blanche to behave in an uncivil manner on ''any'' article or talk page, and personal attacks, no matter how one tries to backpedal from them, are uncivil. <strong>] </strong>|<small>]</small> 03:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Zero0000==== | |||
Aspersions: | |||
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* | |||
]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Vice regent==== | |||
:::Tvoz, no one is supposed to have carte blanche to make uncivil attacks. I deny that I have been uncivil to you, but if you wish to lodge a complaint in that regard, this is not the correct place. The incident you mention had nothing whatsoever to do with abortion or pregnancy, as specified in the ArbCom decision. | |||
{{u|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}". | |||
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Moreover, I hardly think that parenthetically mentioning your party affiliation is a heinous insult. I did not mean to imply that you have any conflict of interest, and I'm sorry that you took offense. | |||
====Statement by Smallangryplanet==== | |||
:::Please keep in mind also that you have used the Mitt Romney discussion thread to that I am engaging in a "campaign" for Romney, and to me of attempting to "bury" material about Romney. Hardly AGF. | |||
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence: | |||
'''Talk:Zionism''': | |||
:::And it's also ironic that the person who started this section (OrangeMarlin) has a nasty habit of viciously attacking anyone who says a word in my defense, without penalty. He told User B that he couldn't wait to watch User B being fucked, and more recently accused User Evil Spartan of antisemitism. In what universe is it believable that parenthetically mentioning your party affiliation is even remotely comparable to the type of language used by OrangeMarlin (who incidentally also me of being a Christian). | |||
* | |||
:::I am growing weary of these frivolous requests for ArbCom enforcement. Can we start the new year in a more cordial manner, please?] (]) 03:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
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* | |||
'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''': | |||
:::::I didn't say "heinous insult" - I didn't say insult at all, nor do I think it is an insult to be called a Democrat. I also did not say you suggested a conflict of interest per se - that would be someone who worked for a candidate, or perhaps who openly supported and contributed to one, and neither applies to me so there is no possible COI on my part that you could accuse me of. What I said was that it was a gratuitous (because I was not in that discussion) personal attack to suggest, as you clearly did, that my editing was biased based on an article off-wiki that said I was a Democrat (a point about me that you raised to the reporter, by the way, according to him, in addition to an incorrect characterization of who you think I am supporting in this election). Yes, I link to the article on my user page, but it bears no relevance to my editing or to an exchange you were having with Qworty. It stretches believability to say that you were just letting him know that there was another Democrat editing the article - it's laughable in fact. You were attacking me, and that is what I am responding to here. You're very good at backpedaling, but that doesn't change the facts, and it's exactly the same thing I and others have raised about you before. It would have been a good outcome of the arbitration if you stopped doing this, whether or not they focussed on your editing of political articles, as I said above. Finally, I didn't open this thread, so the fact that it has nothing to do with reproduction is beside the point - I am being talked about, and it's my right to give my view on this. I did not comment on the rest of the points raised here. <strong>] </strong>|<small>]</small> 22:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
::::::You can write all you want here, Tvoz. It seems to have become an open forum. But note this: I did not tell any reporter what your political affiliation was, because I did not know what your political affiliation was. You told the reporter and the world that you are a Democrat, and yes I'll mention here that you're a Democrat. It's not an "attack". What was an "attack" was you using the Mitt Romney discussion thread to that I am engaging in a "campaign" for Romney, and to me of attempting to "bury" material about Romney.] (]) 22:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''': | |||
Is there some reason why this section has not been closed? I'd appreciate it. Everyone, it seems, has had an ample opportunity to say everything they wanted to say, and then some.] (]) 21:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
* All that's missing is some kind of acknowledgement from you that aggressively pushing your POV, and edit warring in any form, is decidedly not smart, and that you'll make an effort not to do so in the future. See Thatcher's comments above. Under the circumstances, and given the restriction already placed on you, it would be wise to voluntarily undertake a 1RR restriction and take things to the talk page, especially if they are as unambiguous as you say. It is apparent that your edits will cause friction simply because it is you making them, so this should have the effect of removing any appearance of a continuation of the problems that led to your restriction by ArbCom. Acceptance that you need to moderate your behaviour is, I think, all that's required for non-involved parties to close this and leave everyone be. Certainly nobody wants to rehash the ArbCom case here. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 11:45, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''': | |||
::Guy, you can say a million times that I have aggressively pushed a POV, but that does not make it true. I dare say you have no idea what my POV is. I do not recall encountering you in any article discussions. I do not recall seeing you present any diffs during this discussion. If you want to keep piling on here, then why not (GASP!) present some evidence?] (]) 16:34, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
::: Sorry, all this response says to me is that you are determined to nitpick and not accept that your editing style, combined with your known biases and your past history, makes for a problem. Unless and until you accept that some people will take issue with what you do simply because it is you doing, it, and realise that they have at least some justification in this, per the ArbCom case, I foresee a turbulent time for you. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 22:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''': | |||
::::Thanks for the diffs, Guy.] (]) 22:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
:::::Taunting? Not the wisest place for it, this. ] (]) 03:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
'''Talk:Gaza genocide''': | |||
::::::Not meant as a taunt. I only mean that if people want to say I'm doing something wrong, then please say where.] (]) 03:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
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'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''': | |||
:I see the Ferrylodge drama and disruption continues apace, hardly missing a beat, or an opportunity, since this month's RFAR ruling. My question to the committee: How much disruption is the community expected to take? ] (]) 03:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
::If the issue is the Fetus article, I hope that it will be noted that that the images that OrangeMarlin deleted (without discussion) are actually acceptable images.] (]) 03:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''': | |||
::And, if the issue is the Mitt Romney article, I hope that it will be noted that, although Odd Nature a huge number of my edits (without discussion), all of those edits have been restored by consensus after discussion.] (]) 03:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* | |||
*'''FerryLodge is subject to an Arbcom restriction on matters related to abortion.''' For all other topics, the normal dispute resolution methods apply and reports here are inappropriate. If you believe that FerryLodge should be under a broader sanction, you should probably approach Arbcom again, which overturned the previous community ban and imposed a restriction on abortion-related topics only. ] 06:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
'''Talk:Eden Golan''': | |||
==Request for Clarification for ]== | |||
{{report top|''Cautions'' handed out by Arbcom are merely advisory and are not enforceable. A further request for arbitration would have to be filed so that the Committee can examine the situation again and consider additional enforceable remedies. ] 01:54, 26 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
* | |||
This user, ] was subject to a recent (ie, March 2007). Fyslee has gone out of his way to harass, threaten, as well as try very hard to goad me into making personal attacks against him/her. Here are some specific behavior issues: | |||
#Yet, another instance of Fyslee's non-stop harassment, and goading is shown in his/reply below. Fyslee is always trying to force his/her partisan point of view into everything. | |||
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#* Without a doubt the very first personal attack was made by Fyslee. -- ] (]) 20:12, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
The only reason I am bringing this up at all is because of the request for clarification made by ] below. But now that I have been shown how to make a complaint against Fyslee, I am freely doing so. For the last 1 and 3/4 years I have been editing articles in peace on Misplaced Pages, minding my own business. But fairly recently, a group of skeptics have been trying very hard to goad me into making personal attacks against them. In my opinion, it was mostly due to ] trying to force his/her partisan point of view on several articles related to alternative medicine. -- ] (]) 19:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
'''Other sanctions''': | |||
: I must say this is an interesting type of ] violation - creating this section to attack me, as a response to the RfC below (which was raised by another user!). As a violation of ] and obvious bad faith contribution, please remove this whole section as this is a classic '']'' ] only intended to divert attention from the real issues raised below. -- <i><b><font color="004000">]</font></b></i> / <b><font color="990099" size="1">]</font></b> 19:00, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* March 2024: for ], ], etc | |||
::And, of course, we're ignoring the ruling with respect to Fyslee: | |||
* June 2024: to abide by 1RR | |||
* October 2024: for a week | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
<blockquote>3.1) Fyslee is cautioned to use reliable sources and to edit from a ]. He is reminded that editors with a known partisan point of view should be careful to seek consensus on the talk page of articles to avoid the appearance of a COI if other editors question their edits. | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning KronosAlight=== | |||
''passed 7-0 at 12:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)''</blockquote> | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
** {{ping|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus== | |||
::He was cautioned, not put on probation like John Gohde, and has worked for consensus. This Clarification for User is bogus and should be eliminated. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:15, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> | |||
:::Fyslee should be permanently banned from editing any article related to alternative medicine becuase he/she has tried to block collaboration every step of the way. Fyslee has been talking constantly about personal attacks while I have been successfully editing articles, bothering absolutely nobody. And, here Orangemarlin for absolutely no reason reverted two of my edits today because of a ruling in 2004!!! And, filed a request for Clarification on Christmas day, just to goad me into making a personal attack. -- ] (]) 19:46, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::Sorry? What's Christmas? If you're so easy to goad into making a personal attack, should you be here? ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 20:08, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Most of the diffs cited by ] at the top of this complaint show Fyslee being reasonably civil. At least one (the last diff, which John Gohde has helpfully '''bolded''') shows John Gohde himself in a worse light than Fyslee ("science trolls"?) But then, I suppose I'm not uninvolved, as I've previously been unimpressed with John Gohde's canvassing and advice to other users on how to game Misplaced Pages's policies (, , , , etc). ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 22:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small> | |||
If anyone wants to find good examples of John Gohde's personal attacks and other parole violations, just use the links he posts as examples of personal attacks by other users. They inevitably show that he is the attacking party. His own talk page's history makes an interesting study in the deletion of warnings and good advice, even ridiculing admins when they warn him. This is entirely consistent with <u>'''his stated opinion of admins as "mentally ill individual"'''</u>: ''"The only picture that I get of an Admin at Misplaced Pages is that of a mentally ill individual. In my humble opinion, you cannot have a rational conversation or any kind of a rational exchange of ideas with the mentally ill."'' | |||
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Anyone who is in doubt about <u>'''his purpose here'''</u> can read his website description of Misplaced Pages ''"Try to promote any subject matter on Misplaced Pages and you will quickly get the attention of at least one of these mentally ill admins. I promoted Alternative Medicine all too well."'' ''"I actually accomplished what I had originally intended to do at Misplaced Pages, on day one, before I even set up a user name. But, I was so quickly attacked by hordes of Wikipedians so bent on destroying what I had edited that I decided to stick around a whole lot longer. One thing lead to another, and I ended up promoting alternative medicine in general."'' He isn't here to write in an NPOV manner, but to "promote alternative medicine." '''Advocacy''' is forbidden here. It's rather odd that he accuses others of being "partisan", when he himself is probably one of the most "partisan" editors at Misplaced Pages. | |||
; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ], and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages. | |||
Since this RfC (based on his own stated reason) is an obvious violation of ], a bad faith action, and an '']'' ] only intended to divert attention from the real issues raised below (which have now led to his blocking for 48 hrs.), what more is needed to get this deleted? Misuse of this board for personal attacks and soapboxing is disruptive and should not be rewarded. Please delete this. -- <i><b><font color="004000">]</font></b></i> / <b><font color="990099" size="1">]</font></b> 23:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}} | |||
; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Darwinek and breach of standard civility parole == | |||
{{report top|All editors involved are encouraged to drop the profuse exhibitions of bad faith, and find ways to collaborate without baiting, flaming, and escalating these personal disputes any further. ] <small>]</small> 16:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
The administrator Darwinek did not take too kindly to my edits at ] where I had changed the names in the article to Teschen, which is the predominate (majority) usage in English. The user came to my talk page and accused me of, among other things, stalking, not being a good editor at all, not knowing anything, being vengeful, not understanding content and destroying it, etc. Also, that he has created or contributed to many featured articles and since I have not, I am not an editor at all and he is a good editor. The differences are here: , , . It should also be noted that there have also been two RfCs against Darwinek and note made of his preferences when changing article names and content, as shown here: [[Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Darwinek#Darwinek's administrat | |||
ive actions]]. The arbitration to which he is subject is located at ] and the relevant civility parole requirement is here: ]. I found most all of this looking for the proper means to file a request yet learnt he was already subject to one. I am no angel myself and readily admit to a temper, yet I make a concerted effort at remaining level headed. I was shocked with how this administrator (these should represent the very best of our editors, a class I don't claim to be in, but I'm pretty good) spoke to me and I feel he is exercising a bias in naming (as noted in the ArbCom and his comments about German names on my page) and that he should be subject to discipline as he is still under parole. His comments also go against ], as well as the aforementioned ] and ]. Feel free to ask me any questions, I will be more than happy to answer. ] 00:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by Nicoljaus=== | |||
:Wow. Charles is first engaging in a series of personal attacks on several pages, and then when he succeeds in baiting Darwinek, he complains that ''he'' is being attacked. I read Dawrinek's posts and yes, the second in the series of three on Charles page is mildly incivil (as far as my standards go, but I have learned that my civility standards are too often set too high anyway...) - but Darwinek's reaction is hardly surprising considering the baiting from Charles that came before it (in many posts); it is certainly no more incivil than Charles' preceding threats of "you will be reported and punished" in his discussion of Darwinek, and probably less than Charles' and following it with , , and . While I'd like to see Darwinek refactor his posts and try to keep his cool down, I don't see the need for any further action with regards to him. However as long as we are considering ArbComs, I'd strongly recommend that Charles ] and advised not to attack and bait other editors.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 00:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
The circumstances of my blocking were: | |||
::I am continually annoyed with this blind bandwagon-style following around that is going on. The issue is that a group of editors is constantly trying to rile up individuals who do not agree with their POV regarding naming. Please note the covert manner in which Piotrus speaks to others. The reason why I have become annoyed with this goes way back to when ] and he was given a chance and did not live up to his end. Forgive what may seem to be character assassination, but: , , (and all other things to which this admin has been subject). The attacking and baiting that Piotr speaks of is true character assassination. In my opinion, he does not seem to hold himself and those who agree with him to the same standards which he holds everyone else. I am normally not one to hold a grudge, but I am very weary of, and try to avoid, Piotrus because many editors have told me he would try to have those who disagree with him blocked, etc. and hate situations where my heart tells me to have faith in others, yet my experience says otherwise. I had a feeling that this would happen because numerous editors have cautioned me of some sort of group that operates with regards to these editors, who appear en masse at disputes, and that I would be baited and possibly "gotten rid of" or have an attempt of that made, if that could even happen. Evidently there is something about the behaviour of Piotrus and these editors which would cause people to say that. ] 00:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then: | |||
*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2|1220380219}}</br> | |||
*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2|1220382377}}</br> | |||
*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits ({{diff2|1220390536|first}}, {{diff2|1220390820|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff||1220390820|1220380219}}.</br> | |||
*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2|1220391708}}</br> | |||
*14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2|1220394447}}</br> | |||
*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br> | |||
*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2|1220403117}}</br> | |||
*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br> | |||
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2|1263932187||mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{yo|Aquillion}} {{tq| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br> | |||
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. | |||
:::I will be more than happy to answer any and all questions regarding the differences which Piotrus has posted as I do feel I had plenty of reason to be frustrated even though I should not have acted out on it. While my actions might be questionable if viewed in a limited context, I feel that my views are wholly justified and I would be happy to explain them if necessary, since it seems this is tying into a bit of a larger dispute (which I would like to avoid, because I don't want to spend my holidays writing up ArbCom requests, etc). My main concern here is the accountability of the administrator to his parole. Have him answer to his actions and I will answer to mine. ] 01:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5) | |||
{{re|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2|1264999031||this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Charles, why do you always accuse others of ] whenenver two or more editors disagree with you? Please consider that maybe it simply means you are in the wrong.--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 01:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish=== | |||
::::Where is this "always"? I don't "always accuse others of cabalism"; please substantiate that accusation. And no, Piotrus, please simply consider that you are wrong, or that every time someone disagrees with you and your behaviour it doesn't mean that they are automatically wrong. ] 01:24, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I said {{tq|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{u|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== | |||
===Statement by (involved editor 2)=== | |||
:I am no angel, this is not a secret but above Charles' complaint is a pure exaggeration. I never made a personal attack to him, never claimed ownership of the article and my comments are only slightly uncivil. I am shocked he implies I am anti-German, since I am the one who added hundreds of German names to Polish and Czech villages with strong German population in the past. I never claimed I created any featured article (in fact I haven't created any) and never claimed to Charles I am a good editor. He did so above ("but I'm pretty good"). As Piotrus pointed out, I suspect stalking and baiting, just see ] and Charles' heated-up comments towards his opposers. It is not coincidential he made such edits to Duchy of Teschen article some two days after my Oppose vote in request for move of Duchy of Oświęcim article. Whole this complaint reminds me of one Czech proverb which could be translated as "Thief yells 'Catch the thief!'" - ] (]) 00:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus === | |||
::''"I have expanded this article, clarified many things. You are the one destroying it and don't understanding the content. How much you have contributed to this article? How many featured and good articles did you created? Are you the administrator? How many edits have you made? Comparing these questions bring us closer to the answer which one of us is a good editor and who is not editor at all."''. I was also involved in the RM article for the Duchy of Teschen before the Duchy of Auschwitz issue and knew of it before because of the articles on the Austria-Teschen line of the house of Habsburg. My edit history notes the royal articles on which I have worked. If I was an administrator and acted half as "bad", I would expect my powers to be taken away, but that's me. ] 01:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
:::Charles has engaged in several oneside and controversial moves(see talk at ]). When faced with editors that have dissaproved of his action, his responce focused mainly on other editors traits and involved some accusations that could be regarded as very incivil. Further discussion often involved non-involved issues and remarks that didn't serve the quality of dialogue. It's realy strange for a person engaging in constant remarks about editors, involving controversial naming associated with Nazi concentration camp in history of medieval Poland to complain about incivility.--] (]) 01:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::Molobo, What is your point? ] (]) 01:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Simonm223==== | |||
::::This user (Molobo) was pushing the topic into the concentration camp. Note my repeated statements that we were talking about the duchy and not the concentration camp, which were ignored until the point where the concentration camp was discussed, upon which Molobo went to ''my'' previous argument of it not being about the camp! To quote an unsolicited but true email I received (I got a lot from casual observers of this, for some reason really, it was alarming): ''By now you should realize that this little clique ... will spin, and spin, and spin, any rational or logical argument until they are blue in the face. Totally to the detriment of Misplaced Pages. It's amazing how in one discussion, they use an argument to support a position favorable to their POV, only to object to the same argument when it doesn't suit them in the next debate. I had to laugh when Molobo chided you for your "attitude" and lack of "civility" ... back at work, making the encyclopedia "better", after being banned from Misplaced Pages for a year for his behavior.''. If the viewing admins think this is inappropriate, I will remove it. Surely I am posting here at the risk of losing peace in my editing and I wouldn't reveal who sent it to me because the same would happen to them. Therefore if it is to be disregarded, I'll remove it, but it speaks to the discomfort other editors feel. Again, please note the group mentality when issuing character assassination. ] 01:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Aquillion==== | |||
Before this develops into another full blown wiki-dramu, I have a proposal to end this here and now: Darwinek will apologize to Charles for the comments that Charles feel are offensive (I see Darwinek has already tried to do so by ); Charles will apologize to Darwinek and other offended users for personal attacks such as his accusations of cabalism and refactor his posts accordingly, and we will be able to enjoy the rest of the holidays without visiting this board. What do you say? --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 01:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
{{tq|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I feel that everyone should be subject to the rules already laid out for them and for Darwinek that includes probation. I wish for this to stop, but I shouldn't think I have to avoid editing anything remotely Poland related to avoid being attacked, baited, insulted and played with. I do not seek further conflict; I seek enforcement of the applicable probation. ] 01:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by Sean.hoyland==== | |||
:: Well, it is either an apology or both Charles and Darwinek get a week off to enjoy the new year. Your choice. ] <small>]</small> 01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::What? Both? It's Darwinek who is on parole, he is supposed to restrict himself in the first place, not to "refactor" and "apologize" after a deed is done once again.-- ] ] 02:18, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)==== | |||
:::I would like acknowledgement of the broader situation and everyone else at fault for these games before I make any decision. If all people can be held accountable then it is fair, since everyone else seems to be more than happy to add their two cents, like Molobo and Piotrus, both of whom make snide comments as anyone else has been accused of doing. I feel though that there is also the issue of an ''administrator'' being subject to probation, which should require further consideration. I would also like to know exactly what I am expected to apologize for and if I do, I would like an apology regarding the uneven weight given to my actions by others who are pointing fingers. If not, this certainly is not being conducted fairly. That's my honest opinion. Since others have made the ] an issue here perhaps they too ought to be issuing apologies. ] 01:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus=== | |||
I'm shocked to learn that not only his civility parole is apparently not enforced, but that he has been resysopped. What going on here? At ], Darwinek has just put up a template created by me up for deletion | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
He attacks the ] for containing, historically correct, the Nazi flag - I guess if I had omitted that, I would have been accused of denial. I've removed it anyway for now due to complaints. Also, he requests that due to the "behaviour of its creator it should be deleted" which is blatantly ad hominem - whats next, deleting articles only because they have been edited by one editor too many? Besides, he had created a similar template , under the bold title ], based on | |||
*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
"More than 10% of total population". Declaring a foreign place as Polish based on a minority there is quite preposterous. Also, at ], they obviously discuss the template in a foreign language, rather than openly in English. And frankly, I'm more than tired of seeing always the same small bunch of Polish (Slavic) editors showing up together, supporting each other in attacking the messenger. It is Darwinek who is under scrutiny here, stop filibustering by attacking Charles. Ceterum censeo, Darwinek needs to be desysopped again for good, and his parole needs to be enforced. -- ] ] 02:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::You know very well that template you are talking about is only and only for disruption. There is nothing more to say ... ''']<sup>]</sup>''' 11:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs. | |||
*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*::@], re {{xt|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you. | |||
*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. --> | |||
==PerspicazHistorian== | |||
<<< I can only say this. Blocks are preventative, not punitive. If ''all'' people involved cannot make peace and will continue throwing mud at each other, I would apply blocks. ] <small>]</small> 02:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian=== | |||
::Jossi, do you feel that ''throwing mud at each other'', is on the same level as violating a specific parole issued to a contributor. Just curious as to your objective opinion. Is there a difference? ] (]) 02:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p> | |||
::: My opinion? There is a general restriction by the arbCom and what it says is that ''Any editor working on topics related to Eastern Europe, broadly defined, may be made subject to an editing restriction at the discretion of any uninvolved administrator.'' ] <small>]</small> 03:24, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
:Good point, Jossi. If Darwinek would have been blocked earlier as his parole demands(!), this (and other things) would have been prevented. Enforcement of Darwinek's parole was requested by Charles here, and as Darwinek had recently attacked me and "my" template, I support this. Yet, how come that Piotrus and Molobo seem to be "throwing mud" (civil wording?) here, are they directly involved with Darwinek's parole, are they Darwinek lawyers, did I miss something? If they have a problem with Charles, "ANI/AE" is not the place to discuss it, yet. But as it seems to be acceptable here: frankly, I'd like to see Piotrus, Darwinek, Molobo and some others put on parole to stop minding in each others business in "]" style as if they were Siamese twins. Yet, I'm not in the mood to start a RfC, RfAr, Misplaced Pages:Sock puppetry update request or whatever bureaucratic procedure is needed for that, I rather edit articles than lawsuits. -- ] ] 03:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:: In looking at your edit history, I would argue that you need to be placed under the same restrictions specified at ] ] <small>]</small> 03:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
:::Is the administrator Darwinek not accountable to his probation, also considering he had to be desysoped first? The above comment does not address Matthead's comment and also you did not clearly answer Dr. Dan. Without trying to provoke, I'm just saying... ] 03:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
:::I hope civility will be respected, but I have doubts about Matthead being a neutral party in this case as he made remarks that could be seen as controversial(i.e scholar). As for my part I apologize if anybody was offended by remarks, and hold no ill feelings towards anybody. As always I am looking forward to positive and contstructive discussions that will allow us to expand and improve Misplaced Pages's content.--] (]) 03:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead. | |||
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason | |||
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources | |||
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting | |||
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources | |||
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation | |||
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}" | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
This whole witch-hunt is getting digusting and it seems to me its only purpose is to disqualify the adversary. Stalking and baiting continues by the same editors who hunt witches here, just see: ] and ], which were unsurprisingly "invaded" by these users just "about time". However, I say "sorry" to Charles if my comments hurted him and he feel I overreacted. I await his "sorry", too. - ] (]) 07:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
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I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:You are an ''administrator'' and you are on parole. That's all I have to say about that. As for stalking? Oh, please. How did Piotrus get here? Also, I have ] in my watchlist. I have had it in there for almost two years. If you want to talk about invasions, we could always talk about that cabal that everyone seems to think exists. I do not accept "sorries". I do not ] because <u>that</u> is disgusting to do so and then claim that others have been uncivil. If you want to talk about baiting as well, look at every single "Polish" naming issue that has ever been on Misplaced Pages and then tell me about baiting. I absolutely respect Polish spelling and the like, but this is not Polish Misplaced Pages. Like I said, you're an administrator and you have nothing to say for ''your'' actions. It's all about how everyone else "misunderstands" you. Unreal! ] 08:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::I offered you a friendly hand and you slapped it. Very friendly attitude, indeed. I suggest every noninvolved user who came here to read whole above discussion and make his own judgement. - ] (]) 09:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
:::Sorry and "sorry" really are not the same thing, and it isn't an apology when evidentially the blame for the situation on my talk page is being solely placed on me, especially when preceded by accusations of disgusting behaviour, a witch hunt, stalking and baiting. Again, read the article ]. Apologize for your actions, not for mine. ] 09:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
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::::I didn't know quotation marks are so important to you. Then - sorry. I still await your apologize. - ] (]) 09:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
:I have notified the administrators who were participants in the ArbCom from which Darwinek's probation came of this discussion. I feel that they should be able to weigh in on the matter and add their two cents. ] 08:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
::With all the respect, this seems to be a content-dispute but not the case for ArbCom. There were no actions abusing administrator privileges or any supporting them. ''']<sup>]</sup>''' 11:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ==== | |||
Well I put this situation as follows, person in question ] during his ArbCom case was desysoped and due to systematical wrong doings towards his opponents was placed on parole. He also promised to behave, however as his shows he was blocked again and for incivility and again the block was lifted due to promise to properly behave (!). As new evidences shows the same old problems continues despite repeated promises to desist such practice. Actually I believe that his practice to describe should end at once, as well as empty promises. This situation should be solved now as history shows the same problems will continue in th future. ] (]) 16:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page. | |||
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ]. | |||
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br> | |||
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br> | |||
As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong. | |||
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small> | |||
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me. | |||
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
====Statement by LukeEmily==== | |||
I am closing this discussion, all editors involved are encouraged to drop the profuse exhibitions of bad faith, and find ways to collaborate without baiting, flaming, and escalating these personal disputes any further. If these continue, there will be no other option than a new ArbCom case, that will bring the community's scrutinity to ''all'' these involved. ] <small>]</small> 16:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (]) | |||
====Statement by Doug Weller==== | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
==ScienceApologist/Martinphi== | |||
{{report top|Both are blocked for 72 hours. See final report at bottom. RLEVSE, 22:34, 30 Dec 2007}} | |||
I think this diff where ScienceApologist says: | |||
===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian === | |||
{{Quotation|It would be nice if TimidGuy would cut out that crap, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 02:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
And: | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that? | |||
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*<!-- | |||
{{Quotation|:* '''No''' Obviously original research. Can we bend the rules? I think ] says no. ] (]) 22:15, 28 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
--> | |||
==Walter Tau== | |||
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> | |||
===Request concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
*I don't trust ] ] editors to Wikilawyer. ] (]) 02:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)}} | |||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log|Walter Tau}}</p> | |||
Clearly violates his restriction in the recent ArbCom , and he should be blocked . He has made many similar edits recently, but just the one should be enough (see . | |||
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
On this, of editors he's talking about, if you want proof he's assuming bad faith: | |||
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] | |||
{{quotation|"Note that I object to the enfranchisement of more than a few of the people voting "no" as obvious ] and ]"}} | |||
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> | |||
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : | |||
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> | |||
# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here. | |||
#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Bruce |first1=Camdyn |title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children |url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ |work=The Hill |date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news |title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала |url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 |work=interfax.ru|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine). | |||
#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban. | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : | |||
{{Quotation|It is becoming increasingly clear to me that a concerted group of paranormal POV-pushers including ], ], ], and ] are holding this article hostage in order to prevent meaningful information about the subject matter to be presented to the reader. I have therefore added the NPOV tag to encourage broader realization of these problems.}} | |||
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.--> | |||
# Notice given by {{admin|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction | |||
# Blocked by {{admin|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page. | |||
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): | |||
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. --> | |||
*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section. | |||
*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview. | |||
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : | |||
{{quotation|How can you narrowly define the "subject" of the article to simply be the movie and nothing else? If we write an article about the theory of relativity, does that mean including a reference to a biography of Einstein is original research? How ridiculously fatuous can an argument get?}} | |||
<!-- Add any further comment here --> | |||
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions. | |||
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : | |||
Notified . | |||
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> | |||
{{quotation|I'm claiming that you are unduly weighting the article towards the idiots at Ramtha who think that quantum mechanics explains their woo-woo beliefs.}} | |||
===Discussion concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> | |||
====Statement by Walter Tau==== | |||
{{quotation|Some critics who are in the know don't bother "calling them" on their inaccuracies because they are too stupid to warrant comment.}} | |||
I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons: | |||
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian". | |||
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement. | |||
Calls good faith disputes POV pushing and claims it's a conspiracy. | |||
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. | |||
"Right now you seem to have nothing more than a vague promotional agenda." | |||
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ]. | |||
Note here that he's dealing with a lot of people who attack QW: | |||
"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion. | |||
5) Considering, that | |||
a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; | |||
b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; | |||
c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; | |||
may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy? | |||
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). | |||
] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
====Statement by (username)==== | |||
{{quotation|"This seems to be alternatively grasping at straws and nitpicking. I will point out an error in your estimation"}} | |||
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> | |||
===Result concerning Walter Tau=== | |||
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' | |||
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> | |||
In case that isn't enough, look at these- I believe that all of them are incivility, and add to the pattern. However, some of the individual examples are certainly not block-worthy: | |||
*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Yawn: | |||
<!-- | |||
--> | |||
Accuses of dishonesty: | |||
Dismisses offended user as having taken what he said the wrong way, then adds "Caio," since the user has said he's leaving: | |||
"I'm not going to let you insert that spin into the article." | |||
Note here how he uses "Thank you" to mean "deal with it, asshole." | |||
"You cannot impose the goals of your organization onto Misplaced Pages. Thank you." | |||
Same meaning of "Thank you:" | |||
"Obviously, this person has a ] in this case and while their concerns are noted, cold fusion is ultimately subject to the policies and guidelines of Misplaced Pages, not the wishes of the LENR-CANR librarian. Thank you." | |||
In case you're in doubt whether he uses endings like that for incivility: | |||
[http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Parapsychology&diff=171504507&oldid=171504397 | |||
Thanks, that's sweet of you. XOXOX ScienceApologist 20:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)] | |||
[http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Parapsychology&diff=172175012&oldid=172174673 | |||
I love you all,] | |||
"Hi, the same guy who quick-failed force is making a stink at the talkpage and GAR again. " | |||
"Maybe you're upset that I wasn't involved in the fake "consensus" discussion that you had with yourself, Levine, Anthon01, and a number of other alt-med POV-pushers. You seem to have a very short fuse and have hit upon me as someone you want to take down." | |||
"While there are others involved, Levine tends to act as the main instigator and ring-leader with many of the other alt-med POV-pushers simply parroting his responses back." | |||
"Since the review of QW doesn't mention QW's advocacy of peer-review we cannot link the two. Get it?" | |||
"Usually when Martin doesn't like a series of edits I can tell I'm on to something good." | |||
He must be on to something very good indeed. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 05:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:I have notified ] of this. ] (]) 07:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Martinphi, it might be useful to cut that list down to things you think are obvious violations. Your interpretation of "thank you" to mean "deal with it, asshole," is remarkable, given how many times you have had to petition administrators and arbitrators to reinterpret your own similar statements. (Remember the incident where you stated you would actively disrupt Misplaced Pages, then backtracked via personal pleading on an arbitrator's talk page?) I am clearly 'partial', but this list is really unconvincing to me. Hence, to try to be neutral, my suggestion in the first sentence. <font color="red">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> <sup><font color="darkred">]</font></sup> 08:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Martinphi, I think you should consider Antelan's point. Mixing genuinely problematic posts with spurious examples like the one he pointed out might tend to make your case less persuasive. ] (]) 08:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::No. First, I never backtracked, that is just Antelan mis-representing me (don't want to make a personal attack here), as he has in I believe 3 ArbComs by now- don't believe it. And no, Dlabtot, I'm not going to pare down the list (or at least not for that reason)- it is clearly separated from the worst to the less bad (I originally was going to post only the first diff, which is more than enough in my opinion). Nor am I going to take back the obvious: it is obvious, to any unbiased observer, that when you use "thank you" like that, what you mean is "deal with it ." Misplaced Pages should not be such a legalistic place that people overlook the obvious because a dictionary definition might not give you quite the same answer. To do so is just to give the clever free reign to do destroy the wiki. | |||
::Actually, that "thank you" is much like the "I love you all" sign-off he used once on the Parapsychology talk page. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 08:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
I'd pare this list down, too. Why are you making everyone wade through so much muck? seems apologetic. might be a bit terse, but hardly incivil. And after reading through the diffs outside the "not block-worthy" section, it seems of them don't seem to be attacking the other editors, anyway, but instead try to discredit others' ideas. It looks to me like you're grasping at straws to get him blocked from editing these articles. -- ]<sup><font color="#CC5500">]</font></sup> 10:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
I would like to comment that neither attacking another editor's arguments, nor criticizing another editor's edit patterns, is by itself a personal attack. ] (]) 11:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
I wish to add for consideration a '''bad-faith revert comment''', with an unfounded accusation of ], while initiating an editwar on ]. ] (]) 12:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:, Guido. I'm not sure why anyone should take your accusations of bad faith seriously if you're not willing to assume a little good faith yourself. -- ]<sup><font color="#CC5500">]</font></sup> 13:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::Right back at you. ] (]) 13:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::Huh? -- ]<sup><font color="#CC5500">]</font></sup> 13:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::I lost that assumption somewhere around the time that this character accused me of being an 'advocate of pseudoscientific nonsense'. ] (]) 13:49, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
I agree that some of the diffs Martinphi provided really didn't need to be added here. However, I also feel there is merit to some of them, such as the first one about "crap" and the questioning the good faith of others. I would also like to that I recently warned SA twice about continued incivility, once on 20 Dec, see ], and on 27 Dec, see ]. In both cases he responded on my talk page and questioned my good faith. For the record, iin both cases I issues these warnings in response to editors asking me for help because they felt SA was being incivil. Since I agreed with them, I issued the warnings. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 15:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
My own warnings: | |||
:on 20 Dec, link: ], , "shitty, shitty pseudoscientific garbage" | |||
:on 27 Dec, link ], "ulterior agendas" | |||
Some of the links from above that are incivil: | |||
:on 27 Dec, , "how ridiculously fatuous can an argument get?" | |||
:on 27 Dec, , "because they are too stupid to warrant comment." | |||
:on 30 Dec, , "It would be nice if TimidGuy would cut out that crap, but I'm not holding my breath" | |||
Some of the links from above questioning good faith: | |||
:on 14 Dec, , "fake consensus discussion" | |||
:on 27 Dec, , "holding this article hostage" | |||
:on 30 Dec, , "I object to the enfranchisement of more than a few of the people voting..." (meaning some people can't participate?) | |||
:: <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 15:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::: And let's not forget that Martinphi is one of the most zealous promoters of fringe and pseudoscience content, has a long history of provoking SA, is absolutely not a neutral party in this dispute, and by saying SA "must be on something good" is as guilty of incivility as SA ever is. I have a problem with at least some of the selective quoting above - for example, "because they are too stupid to warrant comment" is very clearly ''not''aimed at any Misplaced Pages editor, but at the reliable sources who decline to comment on the pseudoscience and other twaddle in a film that sources describe as pseudoscientific propaganda, nonsense, and "for the completely gullible"; ditto the full quote "How can you narrowly define the "subject" of the article to simply be the movie and nothing else? If we write an article about the theory of relativity, does that mean including a reference to a biography of Einstein is original research? How ridiculously fatuous can an argument get?" - it is not even a straw man, it was genuinely being suggested that the article keep clear of rebuttals of the fallacious arguments and logical disconnects in that film. These are also somewhat old. "You obviously didn't do a very good job in my estimation, which is why I want you to explain what I consider to be a poorly considered position" is perfectly civil. A much better result would be for more editors to watchlist these articles and leave SA less isolated in defending NPOV against the advancement of ] and outright ]. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 15:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::This particular case is about ScienceApologist, if you have a concerns about Martinphi, please file an enforcement case here. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 15:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::: No, I don;t think it is. I think it's about a small coterie of POV-pushers trying to run off one of the major obstacles to them skewing content away from the mainstream. Quite a few of the quotes Martinphi cites above seem reasonable to me, for example the one explaining the addition of the NPOV tag, I think that was a fair assessment of the situation. Luckily we've now found more sources for the critique and the non-mainstream editors seem to have accepted that it is reasonable to call it, in the words of the American Chemical Society, "pseudoscientific docudrama". <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 16:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::Some of the edits are indeed not too bad, when considered individually in isolation. For instance, one of the "thank you" quotes might not have made it in. I assume admins are allowed to take things in context. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Keep in mind that Martinphi himself is under arbcom probation for disruptive editing. If this "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" attempt to damage his adversary doesn't constitute disruptive editing then I don't know what does. He should be blocked accordingly, irrespective of whether any sanctions are placed on SA. ] (]) 16:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::My original intent was to use only the first diff. I was advised to use as much evidence as possible. If you don't like that way of going about things, then at least know that it wan't my idea, though I do think the diffs are evidential in their context. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:Please file an enforcement case on Martinphi if you feel it is warranted. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 16:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::No. The arbcom case jointly considered Martinphi and SA; the conduct at question here revolves around interactions between Martinphi and SA. To pretend that we can make a clean division between the two participants is untenable. ] (]) 16:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::: I'm with Raymond on this. Martinphi's presentation of this request looks to me very much like disruption, at the very least querulousness. POV-pushing is rampant, and SA is not the one doing it. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 16:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::Wrong. The diffs are almost entirly ''not'' about me and SA. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::This case is about SA's incivility and arbcom restrictions, not the merits of the points being made in articles. If Martinphi has been incivil, feel free to list them here. So far, none of you has listed any incivility by Martinphi. I myself will go through Martinphi's recents edits later today. As I do see merit in the point that SA and MP are very intertwined here.<span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 16:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::::That's a good idea. As a point of information, remember that Martinphi's sanction was for disruption rather than incivility. ] (]) 16:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::::I want to be fair to both sides, but I don't have time to look into Martinphi right now. I will do so later today. If anyone wants to post his diffs here that are relevant, I'll surely look at them. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> <small>—Preceding ] was added at 16:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
:This page is for arbcom ruling enforcement. It is (for better or worse) not about judging the original or ongoing dispute ''per se'', or who did what, but about enforcing specific decisions. The issues brought here all relate to complex or heated disputes that ended up at arbcom, where conduct was examined, and where specific rulings and requirements were then made. The question here is "did user X visibly breach an arbcom ruling". | |||
: Even if the request were in bad faith or one-sided (as suggested), the user's conduct is what is at question, not the motive of the bringer of the request. The diffs will speak for themselves, or not. If there are diffs showing SA being uncivil, then he breached a ruling requiring him to be civil. If diffs exist showing a personal attack, then he breached a ruling about personal attacks. If diffs exist showing a bad faith assumption, then he breached a ruling about bad faith. Questions such as "was he provoked" or "how bad was it" may influence how that's handled, but the bottom line is, arbcom rulings and restrictions are not trivial, and are imposed in order to be complied with. There is an expectation that the case having gone all the way to arbcom, blatant breaches of that final ruling will result in the appropriate remedy applying. | |||
: Finally, to address the side-concerns, relevant restrictions on Martin are likewise serious too. If Martin also breached his rulings, then you might want to retitle this section "SA/Martin", and ask that question of both. If he didn't but his actions were still problematic then you may want to address them separately, or indeed seek extension of the ruling if it was inadequate. The issue here and now is not that SA is wrong to expect a high standard on articles. It is that he was in an arbcom case where it was ruled that his means of doing so, via incivility, attack or failure to give reasonable good faith, was required to cease. | |||
: ] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">(] | ])</span></sup> 16:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Everyone keep in mind this is an arb enforcment page, not a dispute resolution page. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 16:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Pursuant to the comments above that ask for a simpler complaint: On the What the Bleep talk we were having a civil conversation about the lead in which we were talking directly about the content, not each other. SA chose this opportunity to switch discussion from the actual article and comment that what I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt because I "don't really seem to have that much familiarity with scientific literature". Following that he posted an a new section called "NPOV concerns" and complained that editors are holding the article hostage and that I was apparently one of these editors. | |||
Here it seems that some editors think that it's perfectly reasonable to attack other editors (in my case totally without reason) to discount their opinion on the article. That may be true, we're probably all guilty of it at some time or another, and I can personally take SA repeated demeaning comments. But in the arbitration he wasn't just warned to stop making personal attacks, he was also warned to stop being disruptive. Switching the focus of the conversation off the actual article and onto other editors ''is disruptive''. In the very least we have to stop talking about the article and start defending ourselves. This is especially disruptive when (again in my case) it is totally without merit. He only lumped me in there because I was disagreeing with ''his'' argument. At that point I'd barely even done any edits on the article or talk page, much less held it hostage. Making rude comments about others is something a lot of us do ''periodically'', but SA does it all the time. It appears to happen ''any time'' he's in a content dispute. | |||
(Assuming that snide, demeaning comments about editors actually are OK:) I don't care if he gets blocked from the article. I don't know if that is completely necessary. But I would appreciate someone directing him to stop being an asshole all the time. --''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 17:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
: Please don't let your frustration at someone else's behavior goad you into uncivil behavior of your own. ] (]) 18:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
I would ask the administrators evaluating this complaint take a good look at SA's at ] and his responses to those who have commented on that RfC. I would submit that this is disruptive behavior. ] (]) 18:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::Pls provide diffs and/or quotes. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 18:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::: I'm sorry; there are so many that I don't think I'm up for the task. The point is that he argued with and harangued every RfC respondent who disagreed with him. I think this is disruptive to the RfC process. If it's necessary for me to provide diffs for my comment to be considered then I humbly withdraw my comment. ] (]) 18:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::::You don't need to withdraw it, but diffs make it much easier to work the case. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 19:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
* Should we put a notice at the top of this page that "this is not part of the Misplaced Pages dispute escalation process?" I'd have been tempted to say "dispute resolution" but the lack of any attempts to resolve the dispute seems to leave that out of the running. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 18:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
**Uh, re "the lack of any attempts to resolve the dispute seems to leave that out of the running" I happen to be looking at edits from SA and MP right now. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 19:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::* Sure. And the two of them have not shown any attempt to resolve their disputes, largely because their disputes arise from irreconcilable philosophical differences. SA gets away with slightly more because he is, in every case I've seen, supporting the mainstream view. MP, on the other hand, has in recent times become a master at querulousness. The problem with SA would, IMO, not exist to any meaningful degree were it not for the ever-zealous promotion of fringe nonsense by various parties. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 19:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:::I really don't care much, but I think that is a personal attack if you don't provide diffs. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
Has this not struck anyone else as exceedingly ironic: Martinphi interprets SA's "thank you" to mean "''deal with it, asshole,''" stating that it is "''obvious to any unbiased observer,''" and further, that "''Misplaced Pages should not be such a legalistic place that people overlook the obvious...''" Immediately after that interpretation bit, he says "''that is just Antelan mis-representing me (don't want to make a personal attack here).''" I am compelled to point out that there is an even more obvious interpretation of that statement - when you say that you have avoided making a personal attack, the attack is implied. The parenthetical sort of tips you off to the synonym for "misrepresenting" that he was thinking about. In the end, my point is that Martinphi's history with SA seems to make his actions abhorrent to Martinphi, while Martinphi participates in the exact same behavior that he dislikes from SA. I really don't think there's anything meritorious here beyond Martinphi's constant goading of SA. <font color="red">]</font><font color="blue">]</font> <sup><font color="darkred">]</font></sup> 19:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:In other words, Antelan, since you have just asked specifically, I didn't want to accuse you of being a liar, because that would have been to assume that you knew that you were not telling the truth. Thus, it would have been a violation of AGF, and a PA in calling you a liar. While I did think what you said mis-represented me (though you did have some point), I didn't want to go over the edge into a personal attack. | |||
:Now if you have some actual diffs which say that I engage in the same behavior problematic behavior as SA, please present them here. I'm sure you could come up with something I did wrong, but it would not show such a consistent and deep pattern. ——''']'''</span> ] Ψ ]<span style="color:#ffffff;">——</span> 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
::And I don't really want to accuse ''you'' of lying and grasping at straws and misinterpreting dozens of diffs to see what sticks so you can give someone you disagree with another strike on his block log, as that would be "a violation of AGF, and a PA," and, you know, I don't want to go over the edge ... | |||
::Yeesh. Stop doing that. -- ]<sup><font color="#CC5500">]</font></sup> 22:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
===Apply enforcement to both=== | |||
These edits show breach of the ruling. Specifically, , , show incivility and , , do not assume good faith. I have therefore applied the enforcement and blocked ] (SA) for 72 hours. | |||
I have also looked at the wider dispute to see why SA acted this way and noticed ] (MP) also breached his ruling. In filing this report, MP included several diffs that did not show incivility or lack of AGF by SA, such as , which MP interpreted as "deal with it, asshole"; and also this was not needed . There is also the incident where ] warned MP about provoking SA on, see (). Therefore, I have also blocked MP for 72 hours. | |||
Regardless of the merits of their positions, both sides have an arbcom ruling that this is not the way to go about them and the community has deemed "you just dont do it that way". I beseech both SA and MP to work to resolve their diffences in a civil and non-provocative manner. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — ] • ] • </span> 22:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
{{report bottom}} | |||
== Macedonia edit wars == | |||
Can somebody please have a good look at {{user|Ireland101}} and {{User|Tsourkpk}} and apply ] as seen fit? These guys have been fighting a bit too much for my taste recently. I'd do something myself, but I'm probably a bit too non-uninvolved by the Arbcom's current standards. ] ] 09:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
:A little more to go on? Which article(s) should we look at? ] 14:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
== User:Anyeverybody (AKA User:Anynobody) and Barbara Schwarz == | |||
I am respectfully asking for enforcement under ], specifically ].<br><br>{{Userlinks|Anyeverybody}} (AKA {{Userlinks|Anynobody}} or AN) is violating the intent of the on {{la|Barbara Schwarz}} (a Scientology-related article) by creating ]s of deleted materials. He added a long bit to ], , giving clear undue weight to Schwarz. He did the same at ], , in which he put her on a par with ] and ]. He apparently recreated the deleted article as a disamb page which was then undone and the page protected. He is engaging in ]-violating discussion of her mental state on a user talk page (]).<br><br>I am well familiar with AN's tenacity when he takes an interest in a subject as I was once the object of his attention and it took an arb ruling to get him to back off (]). I am respectfully requesting that an administrator please inform AN is no uncertain terms to back off on Schwarz. It is of note that the DRV page itself was blanked. AN should stop with the undue attention to Schwarz. This project has made its decision as regards her and he must abide by it and not try to find ways around it. As far as his POV forks, I have fixed most of the one at ] as that one was a no-brainer but I would appreciate if an uninvolved party would take care of the undue weight at ]. Thank you and Happy New Year. --] (]) 15:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 15:15, 25 December 2024
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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M.Bitton
M.Bitton is warned against casting aspersions and reminded to abide by WP:CIVIL. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning M.Bitton
I'll limit this to WP:CIVIL related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context.
I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The block log seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are.
Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — xDanielx /C\ 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Theleekycauldron: I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on Talk:Al-Manar. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's diplomatic compromise there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — xDanielx /C\ 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning M.BittonStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by M.BittonNot content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see #xDanielx), they now decided to go even lower and file a retaliatory report. M.Bitton (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning M.Bitton
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Ethiopian Epic
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Ethiopian Epic
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
- November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
- November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
- November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
- November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
- November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
- November 25 Engages in sealioning
- November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
- November 30 starts disputing a new section of
- December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
- December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
- December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
- December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
- December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- [
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting.
- @User:Red-tailed hawk, I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me.
- I think there should be some important context to the quote:
"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"
. The quote can be found in several books, on Samurai it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by William Scott Wilson, where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from Samurai.
Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR.
- @User:Ethiopian Epic I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on List of Foreign-born samurai in Japan , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Ethiopian Epic
This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.
@Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.
@Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.
Statement by Relm
I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.
What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Simonm223
These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.
Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Eronymous
Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.
Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.
Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nil Einne
I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Ethiopian Epic
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Tinynanorobots
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Tinynanorobots
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
As a samurai
from the lead text and replaces it withsignifying bushi status
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
). - 17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes
who served as a samurai
from the lead text and addswho became a bushi or samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds
This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai
against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate
). - 07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove
As a samurai
in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS. - 03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
- 14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack
What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
- 14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
- 08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons,
I don't know if samurai is the right term
which is against consensus. - 07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding
Slavery in Japan
.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 23:06, 13 November 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.
Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.
AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks
It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.
@Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai
against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification
.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Tinynanorobots
The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.
I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.
This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.
In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai
This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.
- @User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.
Statement by Relm
I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).
Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Barkeep49
- @Ealdgyth I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic and it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the contentious topics procedures besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing against the RFC is a finding of fact from the case. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Tinynanorobots
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Selfstudier
No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer Allthemilescombined1 is informally warned against frivolous filings. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
}
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Selfstudier
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5
On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. Concerns for possible WP:CIVIL and WP:TENDENTIOUS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations:
Concerns for possible WP:ASPERSIONS violations:
Concerns for possible WP:TAG TEAM violations:
Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive):
In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors.
Discussion concerning SelfstudierStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SelfstudierStatement by Sean.hoylandI see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and the context. Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the WP:NOT policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Butterscotch BelugaI didn't say it was "irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests" as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, so as I said, the "Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article". We have other articles like Israel–Hamas war protests & more specifically Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by HuldraI wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that Bernard-Henri Lévy "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that Adam Kirsch “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", Huldra (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by RolandRI too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing Norman H. Finkelstein as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer Norman Finkelstein; in fact, I made my edit after AlsoWukai had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. RolandR (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000This edit by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. Zero 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by SameboatIt is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after the filer's edit on the UNRWA article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by AlsoWukaiContrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. AlsoWukai (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by ValereeeeThe diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Selfstudier
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Rasteem
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Rasteem
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.
This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Rasteem
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Rasteem
This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.
1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.
The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.
My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.
2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.
3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Rasteem
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Adding to Femke's point,
magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area
is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
שלומית ליר
שלומית ליר is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning שלומית ליר
N/A
The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a chapter titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled Hamas Rule in Gaza: Human Rights under Constraint. They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the Misplaced Pages Library, and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "explanatory, twice and coordinator once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see here), added another source that supposedly supports the material, this paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are not part of the NATO Command Structure, nor subordinate to any other NATO entity. As such the Centre does not therefore speak for NATO, though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. nableezy - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning שלומית לירStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by שלומית לירThe article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.שלומית ליר (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Supreme DeliciousnessValereee created the article Politics of food in the Arab–Israeli conflict. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning שלומית ליר
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KronosAlight
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning KronosAlight
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
- Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
- Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL
- Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite the source only explicitly stating them "throwing stones on settlers."
- Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
- 22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on 22 October 2024 by ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 24 January 2024.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"
They then undid my partial revert
- Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.
- Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning KronosAlight
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by KronosAlight
This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.
All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
Statement by Sean.hoyland
Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Aspersions:
- I made that comment to highlight the obvious problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors.
- It seems less like a merger and more like a deliberate burying of the original information.
- Given some of the users involved there, I don’t have very high hopes given the Pirate Wires allegations.
- Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred?
Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Vice regent
KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence
" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred
".
Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Smallangryplanet
Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:
Talk:Zionism:
- "Interesting question, you should look it up and find an answer"
- I’ll leave it to others to consider what that says about Misplaced Pages’s community.
- If your claim is that the sinking of SS Patria is morally comparable then I simply don’t think you should be allowed to contribute to any of these articles
- You think WW2 and the Holocaust are too low-level to include in the lede?
Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:
Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:
Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:
Talk:Anti-Zionism:
- There's no difference between opposing the Jewish people's right to self-determination and calling for the destruction of the State of Israel. It's just two different sets of words to describe the same thing.
- "The route to this implication is via the identification of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. Anti-Semites want to rid the world of Jews: Israel is a Jewish State: Anti-Zionists oppose Israel as a Jewish state, ergo anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic, and as such, seek the destruction of Israel." All of this is correct.
Talk:Gaza genocide:
- Even if we assume that Hamas' own numbers are broadly correct (which we shouldn't, because it don't distinguish between civilian and combatant casualties, and have been repeatedly proven be largely just invented), that doesn’t seem to even come close to genocide. Why are we even indulging this ludicrous nonsense?
- When this war ends and the vast, vast, vast majority of Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank are still alive and negotiating begin about the future of their region and political administration etc., will this article be deleted, or will this remain as yet another blood libel against the Jewish people?
Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:
Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:
Talk:Eden Golan:
Other sanctions:
- March 2024: indefinitely topic banned from the subject of flood myths for sealioning, WP:ASPERSIONS, etc
- June 2024: warned to abide by 1RR
- October 2024: blocked for a week
Statement by (username)
Result concerning KronosAlight
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
- I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus
Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Nicoljaus
The circumstances of my blocking were:
- I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
- 12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
- 13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
- 14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 - With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
- 14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
- 14:45, 23 April 2024 - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
- 15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
- 15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
- 16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".
Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- @ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Aquillion:
Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)
-- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC) - @ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.
As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)
@Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish
Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I said
They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others
above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Simonm223
This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion
Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit
- I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland
"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)
Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
- It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
- No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
PerspicazHistorian
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning PerspicazHistorian
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
- 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
- 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
- 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
- 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
- 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
- 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "
This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.
"
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by PerspicazHistorian
By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian.
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
- @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
- P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by LukeEmily
PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)
Statement by Doug Weller
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
- I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning PerspicazHistorian
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
- Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Walter Tau
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Walter Tau
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
- For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
- This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
References
- Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
- "Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
- 5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
- Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on 4 December 2024 by Asilvering (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Notified 24 December 2024.
Discussion concerning Walter Tau
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Walter Tau
I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:
1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".
2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.
3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.
5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?
6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Walter Tau
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)