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{{Caution|Taking a brief wiki-break due to a new job (yeah!) - sorry for the inconvenience this may cause.}}
This is my talk page. I reserve the right to remove posts for inflammatory language, vandalism, unprovoked attacks and mortally-wounding stupidity. Although I'm not inclined to do so. I'm up for constructive criticism, genuine discussion of subjects beyond their talk pages, and requests for help or explanation. I'm not up for pyrrhic partisan coup-counting (also known as "''I gotcha last!''"), angry pointless rants (although pleasant and amusing ones are not necessarily discouraged), and bitterness. Crankiness, ok - we all get cranky. But frankly, bitterness just ruins my day, so I try to avoid it when ever possible.


This is my talk page. I reserve the right to remove posts for inflammatory language, vandalism, unprovoked attacks and mortally-wounding stupidity. Although I'm not inclined to do so. I'm up for constructive criticism, genuine discussion of articles beyond their talk pages, and requests for help or explanation. I'm not up for pyrrhic partisan coup-counting (also known as "''I gotcha last!''"), angry pointless rants (although pleasant and amusing ones are not necessarily discouraged), and bitterness. Crankiness, ok - we all get cranky. But frankly, bitterness just ruins my day, so I try to avoid it when ever possible.
Enjoy!
{{archive box|], ], ].}}
Phyesalis


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P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on ]. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- ] (]) 21:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Andrew, thank you, I'm afraid this is a bit confusing. Can you explain why, in contrast with Misplaced Pages standards, when my evolving contribution has been summarily reverted at least four times, I am in violation of reverting my own contribution when it is those who reverted it in the first place without justifiable reason, without vandalism, who are in breach? I am not attempting to exclude other's contributions as others are trying to exclude mine. I introduced substantive change well within the acceptable bounds of ]. My argument is that the reversions constitute vandalism. Should I give warnings to those who recklessly reverted my whole contribution? I have addressed this on the page in question, but have gotten little in the way of satisfactory explanation for this vandalism. My contribution has been effectively censored with no legitimate explanation. I suspect the need for mediation or arbitration on this issue. But let's see what we can work out first on the pages, first. I will c&p this there, so as to direct further discussion to the relevant context. Thank you for any help you can offer. ] 22:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


==Request for mediation accepted==
:Actually, I do not believe you actually violated the 3RR rule (because the first edit wasn't a revert), but you were close. The ] page explains the rule in detail. I know this sounds a little backward, but basically, you, as a single editor, were removing the work of other editors by reverting to a previous version (your initial edit). And since 3 different editors were reverting you (to the version before your first edit), they were not in violation of the 3RR rule. While I agree that blanket reverts aren't helpful, and those who reverted you should have explained further on talk, and ], I do not believe they were in direct violation of any enforcable policy (even if we both agree they weren't being helpful). Hope this helps.--] 22:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
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== Philosphy of rights ==
::As to the claims that the reverts against your version were vandalism, I do not believe those edits constitute ]. Unfortunately, longstanding content tends to have more weight than new content. Content that does not meet the main policy points of ], ], ], ] and ] in practice can generally be reverted (although, tagging content is better). Also drastic, controversial changes, and changes not discussed on talk before hand tend to also be reverted. Instead of 3 different editors attacking the integrity of the article (aka vandalism), 3 different editors were saying "hey, I do not agree with these edits at all". Of course it would have been more helpful to discuss things on talk, to only partially revert only the controversial content, or to tag disputed content, but once again, it is much more easier to simply revert everything. While I do believe 2 of the 3 were ] the newcomer, and were not ], I'll say this again, I do not believe they were breaking any rules; just simply not working well with the community. All of this isn't necessarily fair, but hopefully the current discussion on the article's talk page may bring about some changes with which everyone can agree.--] 22:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


While it's not saying the same thing that I'm saying, note the acknowledgement of a diversity of points of view about rights that is expressed in footnote 2 of '''' by Freedman and Isaacs: ''"The philosophical basis for this right remains a matter of some disagreement. For some, reproductive rights are "natural rights", an inalienable part of each individual's essential humanity. For others, reproductive rights are socially determined needs derived from the unequal gender relations that prevail in most societies (see Petchesky, 1990)."'' <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::: First, thank you for your previous qualification. I genuinely appreciate it. I have no wish to be in error, particularly out of ignorance. However, I disagree with your characterization of blanket reversion. It seems that Misplaced Pages has standards to the contrary. ] makes the case for blanket reversion quite clear:


Both natural rights and social rights qualify as subsets of human rights - don't really see your point. -] (]) 01:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
When to revert


== Re:Abortion and mental health ==
Do's


Hi Phyesalis, thank you for keeping in touch with me. Honestly, there are moments when I would rather talk to a wall, but you and MastCell seem very eager to compromise, preserve neutrality, and resolve dispute. By the way, I noticed that the sentence I did not want to see deleted is actually very redundant as the sentence, almost verbatim, is mentioned in the section "post-abortion syndrome." Do all negative symptoms fall under the umbrella term "post-abortion syndrome?" My understanding was different from this. ] <small> (])</small> 00:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
See also Misplaced Pages policy should follow the spirit of ahimsa


:LOL! Thank you for such lovely praise, and you're more than welcome. I understand the desire to talk with walls, often I feel like banging my head against one. I can only speak for myself, but I try to keep it civil so that other productive editors (like you) don't get so fed up with contentious articles that they give up. As for your observation - you are correct, not all manifestations of negative responses constitute PAS - this goes back to the distinction ] and I hashed out - the difference between weather and climate - a few days' of rainfall do not constitute a rainy climate just as a few days worth of negative emotional responses do not constitute depression or PAS. As for the redundancy, I'll go over the article again. --] (]) 01:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
* Reverting is a decision which should be taken seriously.
* Reverting is used primarily for fighting vandalism, or anything very similar to the effects of vandalism.
* If you are not sure whether a revert is appropriate, discuss it first rather than immediately reverting or deleting it.
* If you feel the edit is unsatisfactory, improve it rather than simply reverting or deleting it.


::Interesting choice of analogy. By the way, it looks like IronAngelAlice found a study at Washington State University which says that abortion does not elevate the risk of suicide. To make it even better, it also seems quite recent since it says that the study was from 1987–2001. I think it's worth a look and should be added into the article. Well, keep up the good work, Phyesalis! ] <small> (])</small> 03:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Dont's


== A small token of appreciation ==
* Do not simply revert changes that are made as part of a dispute. Be respectful to other editors, their contributions and their points of view.
* Do not revert good faith edits. In other words, try to consider the editor "on the other end." If what one is attempting is a positive contribution to Misplaced Pages, a revert of those contributions is inappropriate unless, and only unless, you as an editor possess firm, substantive, and objective proof to the contrary. Mere disagreement is not such proof. See also Misplaced Pages:Assume_good_faith.
* Generally there are misconceptions that problematic sections of an article or recent changes are the reasons for reverting or deletion. If they contain valid information, these texts should simply be edited and improved accordingly. Reverting is not a decision which should be taken lightly.
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* Do not revert changes simply because someone makes an edit you consider problematic, biased, or inaccurate. Improve the edit, rather than reverting it.


{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
I agruge that summary reversion is breaking the rules. The entry states rather unambiguously: "Do not revert changes simply because someone makes an edit you consider problematic, biased, or inaccurate. Improve the edit, rather than reverting it." It might not be vandalism ''per se'', but it is an absue. My question is, regardless of semantic issues, what do I do about it? If you disagree with my understanding of blanket reversion, I would greatly appreciate more information on the subject. I assure you that I will not be running off to cite posters without fully investigating the matter. Please consider the use of vandalism as a point of comparison to be more of a rhetorical device, and not an incendiary threat. Although if you see it differently, I am interested in your perspective. I'm not trying to be inflammatory. Again, thank you for your time and contribution on this matter. ] 23:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Surreal Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Consider this a gift from the hottest Korean in the world. (Yes, that's me) Although many users have been left frustrated at the stalemate ], you continue to keep your cool and strive to resolve disputes by collaborating with other editors. Keep up the good fight. ] <small> (])</small> 18:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
|}


:LOL! I'll treasure it always - it isn't every day I get a gift from the hottest Korean in the world! Thank you. --] (]) 18:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:The issue is, even though we have the guidelines that say users should do blanket reverts, and even though we both personally agree the edits in question were not helpful, unfortunately I do not believe there is anything that can be done in regards to enforcement. The guidelines says "you shouldn't blanket revert", it doesn't say "if you do this you can be temporarily banned". They must violate 3RR or some other incursion before action can be taken. I could be wrong about this, so if you want more clarification, you could post something on the ], and request that an admin examine the incident, and explain why or why not the actions of other editors are punishable.--] 00:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


::LOL you must treasure them everyday. I happen to know this Asian kung-fu master who will be reading your mind 24/7 with his mad ninja skills. Be careful, he was known for his mastery since the Ming Dynasty. You may think that all of this is irrelevant since I am a Korean. However, all Asians are interconnected with an super-ancient web of filial piety. ] <small> (])</small> 19:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:: Did you mean "users should do blanket reverts" or "should not"? I agree that it doesn't say one can be banned. Maybe I haven't been clear. I don't actually want to punish anyone. I understand that I'm not well-versed in all the details, I acknowledge that I made some mistakes, and I'm not trying to cover my mistakes with misplaced punitive emotions. I just want people to stop summarily reverting my contributions. My use of vandalism as a point of comparison was both a rhetorical device and (arguably) a clumsy intro into the discussion of how to stop people "biting" my contributions. It is preferable, to me, if this could happen without punitive measures on the part of the admin. I'm not trying to go over anyone's head or cry for the teacher my first day on the playground. I believe my concerns are legitimate. My understanding was that the warnings for vandalism had a range and were considered to be authored by users, not the admin, ranging from "please stop", "only a warning" all the way up to "last warning", and that the next step barring any informal remediation was to contact the admin. Again, thank you. I will spend more time on this matter. I have introduced a new discussion topic in ] to clarify some issues regarding the intent of the article. I am hoping this might resolve some problems. I appreciate you taking the time to facilitate my understanding of the disagreements. ] 00:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


:::I was having a really bad day but now you've made me laugh (out loud no less) twice. ''Saranghae''! (Yes, I just looked up what it meant.) I promise to be dutiful in treasuring my gift. ;) In return, I offer you the . --] (]) 23:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
== Domestic Violence ==


::::'''very important update''': The ancient Kung-fu master summoned me to his opium den in Ming Dynasty to inform me that you did indeed appreciate my gift. However, I must warn you that the star was not crafted with ancient Chinese secrets. He was glad that you appreciated my gift since he would have had to call forth his ancestors from millions of centuries ago to curse you.
I was looking over your interests and thought I'd point out an article that I recently ran across that I feel needs A LOT of help (which I do not have the time to do by myself). It's the ] article. In my opinion, the article isn't very encyclopedic, has way too much argumentative and debate-style language, caters way too much to a minority POV (domestic violence against men), and needs a lot of sourcing and major rewritting. It is a pretty big task, and I understand you are new to wikipedia, but maybe you'd want to look over the page and the recent activity on talk and see if you can't improve it! Just a suggestion. --] 21:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
: Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it when I have the time. I admit, I'm much more interested in the debate surrounding the ] page right now. I'm not sure I should move onto another topic before I get a better understanding of things. I've already entered into substantive dialogue regarding this topic. The article sounds like it needs a lot of work, I'm just not sure that I'm the person to do it right now. Please feel free to make future suggestions though. Actually, I just checked out the page. You're right, there are some obvious flaws. I'll see what I can do in the upcoming weeks. ] 00:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


::::As for the eloquent song of filial piety, I was deeply moved as it praised my Asian roots that have been laced with super secrets that will entice all the men in the world. I wonder if the men at Newgrounds understood the lyrics which must sound foreign to their ears. By becoming the hottest Korean in the world, all of them would flock to me to decode the complex meaning of the song. ] <small> (])</small> 00:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
==Historicity of Jesus==
Phyesalis, welcome to the article. I walked away from the Jesus series because I tired of suffering fools like Homestarmy, and after a while banging one's head against a wall ''is'' rather painful.<br>
In any case, you are correct about historicity -- I think though, that you are probably overloading the "intellects" of some of the staunch supporters of the status quo, and that's a good thing, a damned good thing. ;) Nobis lauros! ] 12:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


::::Gosh I can't get the song out of my head. ] <small> (])</small> 00:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
:LOL! Oh my, thank you so much! It was a pleasure starting off the wikiday with your note. I was starting to feel like I signed on for some Twilight Zone episode. I think the ] page would be best categorized under ''ab abusu ad usum non valet consequentia'' violations. Just because some users have abused the intent of the page, doesn't mean that the page should continue to be abused! For the record, I don't actually '''know''' Latin, just familiar with a bunch of legal/common phrases. I'm sorry you walked away. Please consider coming back, I would greatly appreciate another voice in the mix. Maybe I should go back and contact all those who were muscled out? I just skimmed your user page and - where have I been? I'm particularly interested in your views on the serial comma. (And where do I find the code for all those neat extras?) I also noticed you liked Eliot. So, I will close with a favorite quote of mine from the ''The Wasteland'' (and not entirely inappropriate for the HoJ page):
:"Thinking of the key, each confirms a prison." ] 18:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
::I'm back. :) Oh, nobis lauros means "we will succeed", (literally, "to us (will go) the laurels"). I love Eliot, and the stulti on the HoJ page remind me both of the quote you mention, and the beginning stanza of the Hollow Men:
We are the hollow men<br>
We are the stuffed men<br>
Leaning together<br>
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!<br>
Our dried voices, when<br>
We whisper together<br>
Are quiet and meaningless<br>
As wind in dry grass<br>
Or rats’ feet over broken glass<br>
In our dry cellar<br>
::Of course, some of them no doubt have codpieces full of straw as well. ] 23:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


:::::ROTFL! Yay! You have truly reduced my wikistress level. --] (]) 05:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Codpieces? Try merkins. Just kidding. Thank you so much! I really appreciate your help in this endeavor. They seem a bit more accepting now. Of course, I see you've noticed the JM page issues. I also wanted to let you know, I'm not a he, but a she! A female geek and proud of it. I'm grateful for the support all the same. But we don't necessarily have to share that info with our esteemed colleagues. Let's allow them the pleasure of discovering that if and when they read this page. ] 04:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


== Subcategory/Task Force of Feminism ==
:Hell, I'd be happy to give them a bare bodkin so they might their quietus make. ;)
:I apologize for the gender screw-up -- for so long Wiki was very much like an old-boy's club that I tend to assume a masculine gender (rather foolish of me); I'm glad to see that women such as yourself, KillerChihuahua (KC), FloNight, Bishonen, SlimVirgin, have gotten more involved! KC has done much as you suggest, she figures that while she does identify her gender on her page, if no one bothers to read her page, screw 'em. In any case, I too look forward to working together. ] 14:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


I replied to your comment to this topic at ]. I wanted to say thanks for your support of the idea of the subcategory/task force. I am thinking of making it, but I want to be sure that it will actually have participants and that it will be active. I want it to be of use to others. You also made a rhyme in your comment. hehe --] (]) 00:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
::Just read your edit on the ] page and wanted to welcome you too. Like Jim, I walked away from the Jesus articles as I hadn't got the time to qualify every word I wrote or fight over the real meaning of phrases like "the majority of scholars" etc (it used to say "vast majority" at one stage!). We sooo need a knowledgeable person in this area so please don't let the rejection of your edits put you off. The myth/historicty and historical pages all need a rework and if you get time the ] 'aint good either. Well researched and verified information deserves inclusion - but at that point they will try to hit you with ]. That one is hard to deal with as there is so much written that shores up their position and it can become a case of "the facts however interesting are irrelevant". But changes can be made and as you seem to have the knowledge to do this I'll look forward to reading your posts. ] 19:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
:I am still thinking of making the task force, but the question is where should I put it? Should it be part of the Gender Studies WikiProject or Should it be part of the Feminism Portal? I want to know your opinion on the matter. Thanks! --] (]) 03:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::First off, wow - you've been incredibly industrious! I'd say put it up over at ] and then drop a linked note over at ], ], maybe ], and then add a link on the GS and F portal mainspaces. Like in "Help Out". Keep up the good work. --] (]) 04:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the nice compliment and thanks for adding the "talkback" feature to my talk page. It seems pretty interesting and lets me know that you have contacted me. As for being industrious on wikipedia, that's me, and I'm the same way at my job. As for the feminism task force, I think its a good idea, despite the negatives that Cailil was pointing out. I appreciate his advice and his support. Lquilter seems to think that it is a good idea as well. I think I will be ] and make the task force within the next 24 hours. This will be the first task force I've ever made, so I will be quite new to making it. I'm not new to task forces, I'm a member of the Anarchism task force. (Keep an eye out on your talk page because I will let you know when I make it.) --] (]) 05:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Great! Hey, you can just remove the template at the top of your talkpage. --] (]) 06:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I know I can remove it, but I think I'll keep it there. hehe As for having the task force on the portal, Where should it be on the portal? I know where to put it if I make it a part of the Gender Studies WikiProject. Also, I'm not good at making userboxes or templates for wikipedia, at all. I will need some for the task force. Do you know of someone (or perhaps yourself?) that can design some templates and userboxes and how can I have every user to be automatically added to the ] category once they sign up on the task force? I went ahead and edited your userpage and added the category to your page, so I hope you don't mind The category didn't exist, but one user was interested in it, however, I finally made the category myself. --] (]) 16:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


(undent) I'm no good with graphics. I'd suggest asking ], though. He seems pretty handy with them. He's part of the LGBT project but I'd bet he'd help if you can make him laugh. And no, I don't mind that you added me. Thanks. Also I added a red link to the task force page (currently uncreated) over at ] and ], so all you have to do is click it and start editing. Does that work for you? Feel free to tweak the link/name/whatever as needed. --] (]) 19:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, rats, I forgot to mention Sophia -- in my defence, she ''did'' leave the project for a bit. Hopefully, she'll join us on the article, as well as on others. She's quite knowledgeable. ] 21:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
:I'm no good at graphics either. Once people decide to join the task force, maybe one of them will happen to be good at templates and userboxes. I'm going to start creating the task force right now. --] (]) 20:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


== Feminist Theology ==
::If going through my own head-banging will bring a more diverse perspective to the articles, then it's worth it, even if I'm still soaking my bruises! Thanks for mentioning all the others users, Jim. And thanks Sophia for taking the time to share your support. Some editors' view on "undue weight", with regard to these articles, is just ridiculous. I, too, hope you'll come back. Before Josephus, I'd like to get the relationship between the three contentious pages of HJ, HoJ, and JM straightened out. It would save people endless headaches. But I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up, and the lovely compliment. It is most encouraging. ] 21:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


Hi,
==Message from ]==
Hi Phyesalis, I just made a response to your commutation test comment on the ] talk page. But it strikes me that we're filling up a lot of space there. I'm wondering whether we should continue there, or move out and discuss it in our own space&mdash;maybe put a note there in case anyone else wants to follow the argument. The question of whether ''unborn baby'' belongs on a list of oxymorons is peripheral to the question of what validity there is, if any, in the concept of the "correct meaning" of a word, which is what this is really about. There are issues of usage and linguistic history here which are pretty tangential to the topic of oxymorons


Just wanted to let you know:
One interesting (to me) little side-issue. As a New Zealander, I normally follow British spellings rather than American ones, which means I don't reduce the old ''ae'' and ''oe'' digraphs to ''e''. Up until this discussion I have always used the spelling ''foetus'', which is the usual British spelling, and assumed that this was also the spelling of the Latin original. When I looked the word up in one of my old dictionaries, it gave both spellings, and made the comment that the spelling ''foetus'' originates in an old misspelling of the old Latin word ''fētus''. Whether the misspelling was a later Latin one or an English one, it doesn't make clear...


A. I couldn't agree more that we need some concrete suggestions to improve the neutrality of the Feminist Theology article. Someone mentioned including opposing points of view, but I'm not familiar with them.
Anyway, do you want to keep the discussion where it is, or move it into our own pages? I treat User Talk pages and online journals as personal space, and subject to the rules of being a good guest, if I'm in someone else's space, and a courteous host if I'm in my own. Let me know what you want to do, and we'll take it from there.


B. I'm totally with you regarding the title of the article; I think it should be "Feminist Theology" for several reasons. Right now I'm trying to research feminists with a religious perspective, and theologians with a feminist perspective in order to bolster my argument. If you know of either, please let me know! Once I have my ducks in a row, I'll make the change and cross my fingers. :-)
Cheers, ] 02:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


Thanks,
:Hi, Copey. Thank you for the consideration. My understanding is that your old dictionary would be correct as it confirms what I've found in the etymology, that for some reason the British picked up the exception. I don't know how that happened. As for the rest, I'm not quite sure what we are discussing. Do you just want to chat about language, or do you want to dispute the word on the list? I'd be happy to discuss general language stuff here, but if we're disputing the word remaining on the list, I'd rather do that on the talk page. The way I see it, the discussion of "correct" meanings is central to whether or not "unborn baby" belongs on the list. Your thesis of "words mean whatever we want them to mean" is a major deconstruction of language, relying on an impossibly insular location of meaning in the self/speaker. Language is both subjective (self) and objective (social group as target and source of language acquisition). If you are correct, to the exclusion of my arguments, then there are no oxymorons at all, and the list itself is pointless. And to be fair, one of my professors studied with Barthe. I do not misunderstand the commutation test, but used it in an (admittedly) over-simplified argument to make my point. It isn't a straight up math/logic syllogism, it is a semiotic formula of discreteness and significant similarity. If you would like to discuss this further, allow me to make a request. Your counter does not disprove my point, merely questions one of the "proofs" I offer in support of it. If you want to dispute the word, would mind removing your response from the middle of my post on the talk page, and I shall respond to you there. If you do not want to dispute the word, and still want to debate the issues, would you mind copying our exchange (but not remove it) to this page - and extracting your response from mine? I find it to be rather difficult to sort through exchanges that are mixed in like that, other users probably have a harder time of it. Thank you, I am enjoying the discussion. ] 12:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


] (]) 18:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
::I guess what I want to discuss is the broad issue, but with a focus on the particular phrase. I want to leave a response to your commutation test in the oxymoron Talk page, but I'll shift it, as its present position does break the flow. I'll redo it as well, for the benefit of anyone else following the argument - what happens if you substitute "2-week-old infant" for "fetus", etc. The history of the use of the word ''baby'' (and the older ''babe'') is a major issue.


: Hi again,
::We could split the argument - would that be a pain? I can answer some of your points above without reference to the phrase. The accuracy of your representation of my position as "words mean whatever we want them to mean" depends on what you mean by "we", or rather, what you think ''I'' mean by "we". I don't locate meaning in the individual speaker; I do locate it in the speech community he or she belongs to, be it a small circle of people, or a worldwide community using a language. And I'm still trying to find out where you locate ''authority'' as to meaning.


: Thanks for your kind words and suggestions on my talk page.
::I hope I haven't been too patronising in all this. I've been accustomed in the past to defining "patronising" as a word you use of someone else when they're being nice to you, and you still want to hate them. It now seems to me it can be a word to use of oneself, when you're trying to express respect to someone, and you keep undershooting the mark.


: Couple of questions: 1. How do I add myself to Wikipedians interested in Feminism? 2. Can you help me with finding some noteworthy Jewish Feminist Theologians? It occured to me that some people might associate "Theology" with "Christian Theology", and I want to be clear that many Feminist Theologians are: Muslim (as you pointed out--thank you!), Jewish, Pagan (lots of these!), as well as Atheist. I know of atheist theologians, but don't know of any feminist atheist theologians (atheist feminist theologians?).
::Cheers&mdash;] 23:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


: I'm almost done with my supporting essay for changing the title of the article! At this point, I think all I need is a Jewish Feminist Theologian or two.
:::I like your observations on "patronising". I admit to having been put off by about the "minority politics" comment in your first post (on other page). But I appreciate your manner in our subsequent exchanges. Let me say that even outside of the particular debate of the word being on the list, you bring up points that I am honestly interested in discussing. Particularly your point about Maori biologists and ika/fish/ika/whales. It brings up excellent questions about language in general, but English (via imperialism) in particular, and cultural context. I'm interested in the etymological origins of ika. How does it translate as fish? Or does it mean water-dweller, or classify things that move through the water and fish is the closest comparable word? I actually don't know and am asking a sincere question - I know nothing about Maori specifically, other than what I ''just'' gleaned from the WP pages on it. But I'm a little more familiar with issues surrounding the transliteration of oral indigenous languages into English.


: Thanks for your support!
As for an approach to our debate, how about this - for now, we can keep the whole debate here as you originally suggested, post a link on the talk page in the meantime with the minor clean up and a note about ongoing discussion, and agree to c&p a brief summary in the near future? Please know, I am not pretending to any stage of semiotician or linguist. My studies are diversely interdisciplinary. But as a general note, I say this not out of snideness but honesty, I have no interest in having a semantic debate as a blind for political interpretations of meaning. Allow me to put my own cards on the table, I'm not aware of the specifics regarding anti-choice politics in New Zealand, but in the U.S. they are the distinct minority. The majority of Americans respect a woman's right to choose regardless of their personal views on abortion, which is why it is legal in all 50 states on the state level, regardless of the Supreme Court's repeated rulings that laws prohibiting abortion on the federal level were unconstitutional.


: ] (]) 06:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
In reference to your question about what kind of common categorical distinctions American culture makes between "fetus" as and "baby", each word belongs to diametrically opposed categories. This is an issue of natality, of or relating to birth, wich is the defining difference between "fetus" and "baby". The word fetus (8 weeks to birth) is commonly used as an umbrella word for all gestational stages, while the word baby is an indeterminate and euphemistic word for infant. Even when abortion was illegal in some places (and in the overview of U.S. history these were brief anomalies) neither women nor doctors were charged with murder or homicide, as would be the case if they had killed baby. Insurance companies will not let one claim a fetus as a member of the family, they will insure a baby as such at birth. An insurance company will insure pre-natal services but these are associated with the mother, the insured client. Post-natal services are consequently associated with the now birthed and insured member, the baby.
::To add yourself to ], Go to your user page and edit it. Scroll down past the save page section and click on {{]}} after the : symbol, type just like this: Wikipedians interested in feminism
--] (]) 20:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:That's all you have to do. I hope this helps. --] (]) 20:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


::: Well, I did it. Apparently you can't change the title of an article in WP, so I just removed the redirect from ] and copied the contents of ] Please let me know what you think! I hope that I did everything correctly. ] (]) 21:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The the distinctions of natality apply in common language. The common use of baby with respect to gestation is "I am having a baby." signifying that I am going to give birth to an infant, and that I do not yet have a baby because it hasn't been given birth to yet, and as such does not exist yet. When one says "I had a baby" it is commonly understood that the woman in question gave birth to a live infant. When an American woman says "I have a baby" she means that she has an infant (that has been born). Again, if we apply the word "fetus" in a commutation test, the sentences would mean something completely difference. First, the sentence "I'm having a fetus" is almost gibberish. "I had a fetus" does not signify birth and subsequent existence of offspring. Likwise, "I have a fetus" signifies a gestating or pre-natal lifeform in a specific stage of development, not a post-natal infant.


:::Thanks Phyesalis! I didn't know about moving articles...but now I do! I will leave a note on ]'s talk page. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Statements B1, B2, and B3 all signify post-natal existence. F1, F2, and F3 all signify an antonymical state of pre-natal gestation. "Unborn baby" is an oxymoron that means "fetus".


== RfC ==
Other examples of this would be the differences between statements like "I am a baby" and "I am a fetus" or "Claude's a happy baby" and "Claude's a happy fetus". I acknowledge your challenge of "crawl", but reassert that babyhood or infancy is determined with the first breath. "The baby cried" and "the fetus cried" are not the same thing. By categorical definition, a baby can cry and a fetus cannot(no air for vocalization). Once a fetus has taken it's first breath and then commonly given it's first cry, it has been born and is a baby. Additionally, the statement, "the baby is two years old", does not include any stage of gestation, the baby has only been a baby for two years, not two years and nine months.


I think I'm officially frustrated and discouraged enough to go through the trouble of putting together an RfC on {{user|Strider12}}. Thoughts? ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 23:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
That's my argument in a nutshell. Now I present to you the friendly challenge of countering it. And looking forward to your response about ika. Thank you for the discussion, and for leaving the phrase on the list while we discuss this. It has been noted and is appreciated. ] 11:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC) (added sig)] 11:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


== Where To Find Others To Invite To The Task Force ==
:My goodness, you forgot the biggest argument for calling a fetus a fetus: try claiming it on your 1040. ;) ] 21:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Here's a list of places/talk pages to post invites on: Try a link to Special:Whatlinkshere/Women's_rights, ], ], ] --] (]) 23:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::You're so right!


== Unborn baby == == Gender Studies Portal ==


I updated and added some stuff to ]. I don't know if it's very useful or not, but I did add a little to it. --] (]) 18:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
''Hi, Denni. I noticed your theory on deletionism. You reverted my contribution to the list of oxymorons, please see the on-going discussion about "unborn baby" on the talk page. Also, please note that the article is still asking for contributions. And when you delete someone's contribution, please give a reason for it. Most of us appreciate that. Thank you. Phyesalis 23:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)''
:One more thing, ] said he'd be glad to make templates and userboxes for the FTF. Yay!!! :) --] (]) 23:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


== RfC on Strider12 ==
:Hi Phyesalis -


OK. I've put up the beginning of an RfC on {{user|Strider12}}. Please go to ] and take a look. If you're willing to certify that there is a dispute which you've tried but failed to help resolve, then please sign the section labeled "Users certifying the basis for this dispute". If it's not cosigned by 2 editors in the next 48 hours, it will be deleted. Your input is welcome. ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 23:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sorry about the long delay in getting back to you - seems your message immediately preceeded another, and I only saw the second one as I was archiving my talk page. I've been following your discussion with Copey2, and I must say it is really refreshing to follow such an intelligent and well-mannered debate. I reverted your addition to the list before I'd read the goings-on, but left it the second time you added it. I must say that I agree with Copey2 - I believe the proof of a language is more in its use than in its logic. Your argument is quite correct from a technical point of view, but I suspect that few English speakers would accept this as an oxymoron. Cheers, ]]] </font>] 00:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
:Done and done. Thank you for the detailed work you put into this issue. --] (]) 23:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


==Comment==
==History of abortion==
Sorry, I just got back to Misplaced Pages after an extremely busy weekend. I see your point though, and you're right I probably should have found a better place to mention this (perhaps at the Village Pump, although I've only used that once). ] (]) 11:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
No, believe me, I'm very glad that someone is deciding to give History of abortion the attention it deserves. :-) I did reply to you on why I think that the 19th century advertising information is a better fit under "Medical" than "Social" in the "]" thread on ], but you might have missed it, probably because I refered to only one "comment" in my edit summary. I'm sorry if I was a little quick to revert, and I'm certainly open to rearranging the article in such a fashion as you've suggested, as it doesn't really present a major change in terms of content. I just tend to favour sections which have a very rigidly-defined scope. I'm sure that we can define the most appropriate scope for each section and determine the ideal ordering of sections from there. -] (<small>]</small>) 06:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


== LGBT WikiProject Newsletter ==
==Just to let you know==
Just a quick note to let you know that I've replied at ]. ] (]) 13:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


{| class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;"
==Kudos on Your Exceptional Edits to the Article on ]==
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
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! style="background-color: #7DF858; text-align: center;" | '''The ] Newsletter '''
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |I would like to personally recognize your efforts to improve the article on ] and to thank you for your recent exceptional editing of the ] section by bestowing onto you this ]. Your work is very appreciated! ~ ] (]) 06:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
|-
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{| width="100%"
| colspan="2" valign="middle" style="width: 60%; border: 1px purple solid; padding: 1em; background: #ffe4e1" |
]] <big>'''The ] Newsletter!'''</big> <br>Issue XIV - ], ] <br/>
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]

;'''Article Milestones''' ] is a male ] in Irish mythology.]]
We have one new ] this month - ] was recently promoted thanks to the hard work of ]! We also have 4 new GA-class articles: ], ], ], and ] were promoted this month, but ] was demoted.

]
;''']'''
Things are happening over at Misplaced Pages sister project ''Wikinews''. First, ] became the first openly-Trans reporter to by the Wikinews community. Second, project member ] is going to ] at the invitation of the Rio Convention & Visitor's Bureau. ]

]
;'''Lambda Book Report'''
Project member ] has been working on the article for ] and noted that the ] used the lead paragraph from Misplaced Pages, skillfully and lovingly written by Moni3, verbatim in the Lambda Literary Pioneers calendar. Moni3 contacted the Lambda Literary Foundation to let them know, and to ask if we could get a little write-up in the next Lambda Book Report. There is a preliminary text ]. Feel free to add to it. It should be no longer than 1,000 words, and it needs to be submitted by March 15.

]
;'''New members'''
Let's give a big '''LGBT''' welcome to all our new members: {{User|Dylankidwell}}, {{User|Jay*Jay}}, {{User|Ftmichael}}, {{User|AgnosticPreachersKid}}, {{User|Phyesalis}} , {{User|Tullerk}}, {{User|Ravenwhitehorse}}, {{User|TigressofIndia}}, {{User|Yohan euan o4}}, {{User|Masculinity}}, {{User|Renegade Replicant}}, and {{User|Youngwebprogrammer}}!

]
;'''User categories'''
Place yourself in a user category so you can collaborate with other LGBT/Allied Wikipedians!
*Mostly for allies of LGBT people; To place yourself in ], just add ''<nowiki>]</nowiki>'' to your userpage and change the question mark to your username OR add ] by placing ''<nowiki>{{User:UBX/LGBTinterest}}</nowiki>'' on your userpage.
*Mostly for people who identify as either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgender; To place yourself in ], just add ''<nowiki>]</nowiki>'' to your userpage and change the question mark to your username OR add a userbox found at ].

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<small>Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)</small>
] (]) 17:51, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


== ] ==
==Purgatory==
Hey Physesalis, just to be clear-- you do think that the new version of Purgatory is the better one??


I've created this article per your request at the Award Center. I'm not an expert on such topics so I would never have been able to expand it past a start class, but I'd certainly say it's not a stub by any means.--]<sup>]&middot;]</sup> 05:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I just ask because I've had more trouble getting it to stay up than I'd expected. When I wrote it, I sort of naively expected it would immediately be hailed as an improvement by all sides of the pre-existing POV dispute I was trying to mediate. Turns out, I was a little over-optimistic, and the two editors on one side of the dispute strongly oppose the change. So, I just wanted to check in with oyu and be extra double clear you think the new version should come it, rather than just infer it from your statment. :)


== ] ==
Thanks again for helping out! --] (]) 09:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


I see you are currently on wiki-break, but if you still have interest in this portal, I've made some improvements/additions to the skeleton (I haven't added any content, though). Let me know what you think. ] (]) 02:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:Sorry for the delayed response, I've been thinking about this. Your edits, while they address the POV issue, lack in citation. I would suggest that you find some sources on purgatory and the arts, which is where you might find support for the (correct) assertions about the laity's perspective on purgatory. Check it in association with Milton, Dante and Dore. Also, maybe a peer-review article on the subject would help. If you can work some better citations in, I won't have a problem building on my previous opinion. You did some good work, just keep at it. ] (]) 05:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


== ] ==
==Dispute on FGC==
Hi. I am having a dispute with a user on ]. I noticed your previous contribution and hoped you might provide some third-party commentary on a dispute at ]. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thank You. ] (]) 01:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
:Hi. I'm happy to lend a hand, but I'm a little confused about what the central dispute is. What exactly is this guy objecting to?] 21:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
:::::Thank you for your response. The editor in question keeps reverting my contributions and challenging them with WP policy. When I respond in great detail (with citation sources), he refuses to respond in kind and continues to repeat the same thing over and over ("It's a violation!" without specifying why my and other pre-existing citations are no good. He has twice accused me of things a simple diff check shows I didn't do. He seems to want to make every tiny problem with the article my fault (I only recently started editing it) Right now, the issues are whether or not my last edits to the ] are NOR, NPOV, SYN and R. He reverted them twice without substantive discussion, and to avoid an edit war I have stepped back and asked for input. I have provided an overview under ]. He's failed to assume good faith from our first interaction. I didn't help things much by eventually responding to his tone in kind, but since then, I have tried to discuss this with him on his talk page. He's basically told me that it's my responsiblity how to figure out why my contributions are a violation. The problem is that he has never once provided sources to show that my edits are. Now, I'm no expert, but I actually did study this issue in college. He doesn't really understand the subject. He doesn't get the medicalization aspects (nor issues of cultural relativism), keeps asserting that it is a religious practice (there are multiple sources in the section saying it's not and none to the contrary) and is in general being disruptive. Any suggestions? ] 00:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


I would like your input on removing the Disputed banner. Congrats on the new job, in keeping with your much deserved wiki-break, I will delay resubmitting it to GA review until mid-April. - ]] <sup>]</sup> 00:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
:: Hi. I looked at the dispute and found it rather confusing. Here are a few observations that may help:
::* A series of small changes are usually more acceptable to other editors. If you make a big change and someone makes a wholesale revert, a whole lot of your work goes down the drain at once, and that's not pleasant.
::* The policies of Misplaced Pages are both a safeguard for the quality of articles and a weapon that can be used ruthlessly by cultural warriors. If a charge of original research is made, it could be right. I think your problem with saying that female genital cutting is a religious practice has to do with the culture wars that surround the subject. Reformers want to distance it from Islam so that it can be eradicated without challenging religious orthodoxies. Meanwhile, some Islamic scholars do support the practice on the grounds of religious tradition and others are using the same religious traditions to argue against the practice . I don't know if these references would pass muster but they may help.
::* Watch out for undue weight. This happens when an article or a part of an article has a disproportionate emphasis on what is a small point. The use of more extensive quotes in footnotes may help to alleviate this problem.
::Hope that this helps. ] 23:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


==] Newsletter==
:::Thank you. I'm saying (in line with all the sources) that it is ''not'' a religious practice. There are some specific religious sub-cultures that do practice it but this can not be used to support the assertion that it is a "religious practice", particularly in the face of all the citations (including a tertiary source - the Encyclopedia of the Qur'an). Are you looking at my edit or BW's current edit? Most arguments are about a mix between religious justification for a pre-existing cultural practice. It is not OR and is supported by the citations in the section. How is it that I provide citations and he doesn't, yet his argument of OR is legit? I'm sorry, but I just can't understand how the burden of proof doesn't apply to us equally. It would be extremely helpful if you could explain this to me. I appreciate the response. ] 00:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm pleased to announce that the ] will be getting its own newsletter shortly. If you want to receive the ] newsletter, put your name ]. --''']]]''' 19:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


== How's it going? ==
I have a suggestion/request. It would be helpful to me, and I think to others and even to you and Blackworm if you would describe clearly on the talk page each of the various edits under contention, and provide a place for discussion of each edit, refraining from taking up any space there with comments about user behaviour or other extraneous stuff. (If it's really necessary to say anything about user behaviour, user talk pages are a more appropriate place.) May I suggest that you create a subsection (header with 3 equals signs) about each particular edit (e.g. each sentence being edited, or other logical subdivision into small edits), quoting what it said originally as well as what you want to change it to, and your reasons for wanting to change it, and invite others to discuss each edit within each subsection. At the moment the discussion is rather opaque to outsiders -- pretty much all one sees is comments about who reverted what when, not much about what the article really ought to say or why -- e.g. you say "sources" but don't name what specific sources you mean. If you lay it out as I suggest, it would be easier for me to get involved in the discussion. By the way, ] is not an . --] 02:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


I hope you're enjoying your new job.
:I replied again at ]. By the way, I'm not sure if I mentioned it already but I redirected Talk:FGC to Female genital cutting a day or so ago so that your messages would make more sense. <nowiki>]</nowiki> still goes to a disambiguation page, though. --] 02:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


I said I wasn't in a hurry, but I won't wait forever. Sorry, but if I don't hear from you soon, I'll start editing the articles you asked me not to edit. Regards, <font color="#BB7730" size="5pt">☺</font>] (]) 23:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
==Re: ABC==
Thanks for asking m for help re: ]. I corrected an obvious error in the statistical discussion of the article. It appears to me , however, that a more in-depth help would require significant time; I doubt that I have that available but see what I can do. ] 01:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


==Bill Moyers==
== Re: Post-abortion syndrome ==


Hi. Regarding Moyers' rather transparent liberal biases, do you not find it odd that a man who rants like a lunatic against people like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly similtaneously cozies up to the likes of Al Franken (left-winger), Keith Olbermann (left-winger) and Bill Maher (left-winger), happily appearing on their shows despite the fact that they're as biased, partisan and sensationalistic as Limbaugh and O'Reilly? You really don't believe that he is a "fair and balanced" journalist, do you? Jeremiah Wright uses his pulpit to promote such lies and opinions as FDR's knowledge of the impending Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor before the fact, that blacks were injected with syphilis by doctors (it's well known they already had syphilis), that comparing black brains to white brains is like comparing apples to rocks, and that white scientists working for the U.S. government created AIDS as a means to exterminate the black race. What did Moyers say about this? He lied through his teeth and stated that the media misinterpreted his views, defending Wright in a way he never in a million years would have done for a right-wing lunatic preacher. Also, any church/state issues he may have had with a Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson go right out the window when it's left-wing causes being promoted.
Hi, I'm sure we can find a compromise. I realize that PAS is not medically recognized and that it is more politically controversial than it is medically. I agree with your view. However, when you described PAS as a term "used by pro-lifers" and a "rejected theory," all in about one or two sentences, I just thought the wording was a bit too "in your face." Perhaps we can find another word to replace "diagnosis" and take out "rejected theory." And perhaps the sentence about the fact that it is mostly used by pro-lifers can be moved to another part of the lead paragraph. ] (]) 17:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


I long ago stated that I accept that Moyers is not a sensationalist; what he is unquestionably is a left-wing journalist. His claims that The NY Times, The LA Times, Harvard, The Boston Globe, MSNBC, Hollywood, et al. are only left-wing in the minds of the Republican Media Machine only further showcases his immense bias. Does any honest person really believe there is no left-wing media bias in the U.S., that only pro-Republican, pro-Conservative media forces promote such a view? What about the Harvard University study-- by a liberal university and including many liberal Democrats-- that showed the overal liberal bias of much of the mainstream U.S. media? Are left-wing Democrats also a part of this Republican Media Machine he, Al Franken, Eric Alterman, Robert Greenwald and David Brock so often speak of?
:Hmm.. There has to be a better word for "diagnosis," but I can't really think of one. What about "a set of symptoms that are proposed to occur in women" or something like that? ] (]) 22:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


That so much of the criticism of Moyers' was removed from his page-- despite the fact that is was authenticated and despite the fact that O'Reilly has a Criticisms page longer than his regular Misplaced Pages page-- suggests to me that Moyers has a fanbase at Misplaced Pages that don't want him to be treated the same way O'Reilly or Limbaugh are treated.
== To Phyesalis and Blackworm ==


Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh are partisan yahoos but Bill Maher, Al Franken and Keith Olbermann are not? Who is Moyers trying to fool here?
Re comments such as ''""'' and ''""'': If you must discuss such things, would you please move it to user talk pages or someplace so the article talk page can be kept focussed on article content discussion? It would really help. Thanks. I'm posting a similar message at ]. --] (]) 01:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


] (]) 02:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
== Alcoholics Anonymous ==


:P.S. -- Here is another example of the man's blatant hypocrisy, disingenousness and bias:
This is just a thank you for putting your two cents in on the "see Sharp Press" contriversy. too often people shy away from the RfC because the debate has hit the "uncontrolably hostile" catagory (I will admit to loging on to wikipedia about every hr. during that one just to see who had screamed next...poor behavior, but I am human)


:http://www.democracynow.org/2007/1/16/bill_moyers_big_media_is_ravenous
Your comment actually cooled things down a bit, it was pointed out by one of the members and we where able to simmer down and get on with it. so Thank You for your contribution.] (]) 16:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


:The man who claims to oppose sensationalistic and biased media praises Michael Moore in a speech on media reform, alongside other left-wingers like Phil Donahue, Jesse Jackson, Jane Fonda and Helen Thomas. He pushes "progressive" politics and media yet claims to be a "journalist." Info regarding his bias has been gutted from his Misplaced Pages page yet his liberal bias is one of the defining characteristics of his life's work.
::P.S. I am not shure how familiar you are with bell hooks, usualy she does race, but recently she has focused her attention to feminism and relationships. her talk at USC (i believe that was the school) last month focused on relationships, and how to form a partnership today. anyway, feminism is one of my interests, so I just wanted to pass that one along.] (]) 17:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


:] (]) 16:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
== Talk:Smith's Friends ==
Hi Phyesalis.
Yes, I have some questions:
:Did you respond the same way to the people who remove the link to the discussion group constantly?
:Do you think you are neutral in this case? To me it seems you're not unfortunately.
:What's your comment about the fact that WP has the exception I was talking about?
:Why did you quote a big episode of on my talk page? I think that is not very useful and a little schoolmarmish.
Last but not least I think it's not very relevant to be a relatively new user or not.
Apart from that I'm active at Misplaced Pages for some years, but unfortunately my old (Dutch) sign in didn't work in the English version.<br> ] (]) 18:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


==] Newsletter==
:Hi Lampje. First of all, terribly sorry, I wasn't trying to be condescending, I really thought you were a new user (that's generally what a blank user talk page means, right?). Polite discussion of edit warring and 3RR violations is always relevant to a new user who might not be aware of WP policy. What if you had been a new, enthusiastic editor making changes in good faith but didn't know about the 3RR violation or the implications of edit warring? If you read at the top of my talk page, I was once that editor. Someone tagged me with a 3RR violation when not only didn't I know about it - I hadn't even committed the violation! Nonetheless, the editor's note eventually lead to me having a much better understanding of the rules. I was merely trying to give a presumably new editor a heads up so that they didn't make unintentional mistakes. I swear. I had no way of knowing you had been an editor for a long time under a different signature. My comment was that WP policy clearly frowns on discussion groups as external links. I only made the comment about edit warring to you on your talk page because in the time since I made the RfC comment, you were the only person I noticed who had reverted it more than once. Leaving WP policy on new users' talk pages is pretty standard fare, I'm not sure how that makes me schoolmarmish.] (]) 22:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
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] <big>'''The ] Newsletter!'''</big><br/> Issue XV: ], ] <br/>
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__NOTOC__
Hello, members and friends of WP:LGBT! I'm not one to be writing newsletters, but I miss our cruise director, ], and our project is drifting along with a few leaking plugs in the bottom of the boat. Hey, it happens. Every group we join goes through changes. If Misplaced Pages weren't so interesting it wouldn't also be so frustrating sometimes. And vice versa. More than one Wikiproject has ]s blowing through it, but this is one that can't afford to let that happen. Even if you pop in to the ] of the project, you can let us know you're still around.


{{clear}}
::OK, I suppose schoolmarmish is not the right word, sorry about that. English is not my motherlanguage, so it's sometimes difficult for me to find the right words. May be next time it 's better to post a link to 'how to revert' instead of paste and copy such an amount of text. I'm convinced about your good intentions. ] (]) 09:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
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:::I appreciate the good faith. No offense taken. ] (]) 02:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
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=== WP:LGBT's Role in HIV / AIDS articles ===
It wouldn't be a proper gay community without a li'l bit o' drama! That's right. If we aren't arguing about something, then we should be asking if we're still queer. Maybe that's for the best, since we know we're still kicking. Our most recent topic is how far the role of our project should go in dipping our toes into HIV/AIDS articles. The main ] article was delisted as a ] last month, sadly. (Sending a swift kick to ].) A spirited discussion is available for your entertainment on the ] about just how much of HIV and AIDS should we take on. As ever, we'll take your opinions under advisement. We're going to have to, because it doesn't seem to have been settled.


== FGC article == === Is Pride POV? ===
We have a pretty cool sidebar that identifies core LGBT articles. Its symbol is the iconic ], much like other Wikiprojects have iconic symbols denoting the topic is a core subject in a series of articles. However, a question recently arose asking if the symbol itself is ]. Should a pride flag show up at the top of the article on ]? How else would anyone know the article is about queer issues? Is there another symbol that is as widely recognized and that includes all our many splintered facets? At what point do we stop asking ourselves all these questions and just go have a ] on the verandah and stop caring?


=== ] and ]===
Hi Phyesalis
For the love of all that is holy, no ] jokes. However, an editor involved in pioneering ] Supervisor ]'s article has included a section about the late supervisor's support of ] and the ]. While it may be accurate, there is a ] regarding how much emphasis the section places on Milk's support in light of his overall political influence on the city, and indeed the rest of the United States. Milk's article is a sad one in more ways than one. It lacks the detail and heart that honors its subject. Anyone want to do a barter with me? I'll bring Harvey Milk to featured status (give me a month or two so I can read stuff), if you do something of equal value to WP:LGBT?? Make me an offer...


===Queer Studies is offensive! ===
Sorry, I don't even remember editing that article, it must be at least two years since I last did. Were you able to work it out? ]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">]</font></small></sup> 03:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
The established branch of study known as ] was brought up as an ] because an editor was offended by the use of "queer" in the title. It was overwhelmingly rejected mostly by the usernames I see here on our Wikiproject page. (A clue that I know you are out there, hiding...biding your time...) So, I wish I could congratulate you, but now I'm all confused by my sympathy for the editor who was offended. So, if you're reading this, Moni has a short memory and can't remember your username. Don't be put off by our demonstrative pushiness. Join us. We can always use involved editors.


===]===
== Close ==
What can you do to help the project out? Be a wiki-], on many levels. There are all kinds of articles that need help. Why, just this morning I removed those ugly wikify and cleanup tags from four articles at random. If you can put <nowiki>]</nowiki> around stuff, you can clean up articles. There's a list of articles that need attention at the top of the ]. Or you can start with the ], where the ] received a pioneering award, and was "reduced to rubble" by ]'s wonderful speech. The 20th ceremony of the ], which celebrates LGBT literature, took place in West Hollywood on May 29th . The page needs to be updated with the new winners, to be found on the official website .


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Can you close the RFA for ]. I just redirected it, but I can't find the proper tag to close an <s>RFA</s> AFD. --''']]]''' 00:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::Lol, whoops. Sorry about that tiny mistake (I get so confused between the millions of Wiki-acronyms). I posted a note that I redirected. --''']]]''' 00:41, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


=== ], ] and ] ===
== Diff links ==
Why on earth would someone want to delete material about homosexuality? 'Tis truly a mystery. But these embattled articles have some random evil gnomes removing information that places these folks under our queer umbrella. Help us keep an eye out for the deletions. Take a peek at the articles, familiarize yourselves with the info, and be handy with the undo function in the article history. If tempers flare, take it to the ] and let them sort it out. Best solution is to make sure your sources are immaculate.


===This month's Wiki stars===
You may already know this so I hope you don't mind if I try to be helpful here, but if you ever need to refer back to a record of who said what when, the only really good evidence is ], like , as asked for in the instructions at the top of ], for example. Linking to a talk page or a section of a talk page doesn't prove anything, because it could get archived or deleted after you link to it, or anybody could have edited the words above someone's signature, for good or bad reasons (oops, no, ] for bad reasons :-). A diff link shows with certainty who the author of a comment was. --] (]) 02:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
This is what I get for opening my big fat mouth and suggesting the newsletter should be revived. Here I am writing it. So, to pat self on back (*cough*) ] became a featured article in May. This is ] since it is my personal declaration that there is no such thing as ]. I don't care what ] says about the video collection at goodvibes. Instead, we have hot women who connect on a deep, personal, soul-touching level, so this film should qualify as some of the skankiest porn available for lesbians. Plus, it's completely confusing and surreal! D'you think ] would care that the article is featured? I don't think so either... (Call me, Laura!)


===Compulsive hoarding of templates ===
I apologize. Saying "" wasn't as polite as I thought it was when I said it, because it <s>uses up one of your reverts </s> if you're counting for ]. I should have thought of that, especially since I think I've been in this same situation before, and should have written "feel free to revert or ask me to self-revert pending discussion". I've just put up a ] userbox. Unfortunately I don't always follow my own advice :-\ I've criticized people in the past for going ahead and editing a section that was already under discussion. --] (]) 12:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Once I saw a harrowing episode of ]'s ] where this guy had, like, 250 cats in his house and it freaked me right out. I'm drawing a parallel between 250 cats and, well...three, really, templates in articles involving LGBT issues. Can we stick to one, maybe? In the aforementioned Harvey Milk's article there's a core LGBT template, a link to the LGBT portal, and a sidebar for LGBT rights. Jiminy! You'd think we weren't the folk to set industrial grey carpeting and ] in vogue. An LGBT footer was designed to link to articles of interest that aren't the aforementioned core articles. What do you think, can we have either an LGBT template for core articles, a footer for LGBT articles that are high profile but not core, or an LGBT rights template? As ever, anything's up for discussion on the WP:LGBT talk page.


===] and magazines===
I hope you don't mind that I your comment to fix the link to ] which is what I think you meant; you had BDR which was a redlink. By the way, diff links and external links only need single square brackets. (Maybe you put the extra square brackets as punctuation.) --] (]) 13:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
] suggests we create an article on ], as it seems such a milestone in the advancement of gay/queer literature. Members of the Quill all have pages of their own (], ], ], ], ], ], and ]). We need to find more info on the Quill per se to reference the page that we create. Perhaps Google Books - and libraries? - can help.


A number of magazines also need articles, perhaps most notably '']'', '']'', and '']''.
I owe you an apology again. Some of my behaviour more recently has been more selfishly motivated than I admitted to myself, and I didn't afford you the level of consideration and sensitivity that I intended to and that I thought you deserved. I also failed to take my own advice about waiting 24 hours before responding in certain situations. --] (]) 13:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


=== Mom's nagging for Pride Month ===
By the way, I appreciate how you've been keeping the discussion at ] largely focussed on article content rather than editor behaviour recently. It makes things easier. --] (]) 15:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
It's June, Pride month. Wear ], stay hydrated, get a ], then go half-dressed in the streets find a girlfriend or boyfriend, or some homo who's standing there looking lonely and kiss 'em up real good. Remember, it all started 39 years ago when a bunch of ]s just got fed the f*ck up by the ] and dragging them all out to the pokey ''again''. Rock on, queens! Enjoy your celebrations. My town's is in October, and 200 people attend. I miss ]


=== Fresh faces to brighten our pages ===
== Status of ] ==
Hey, I've seen you around! Sorry there seem to be so many—it's been a while. But we welcome you all: ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ] , ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], and ].


It looks like we've picked up a lot of talent lately. We have no doubt you'll be making your indelible mark on LGBT knowledge as we know it, here at Misplaced Pages.
Is the article still totally disputed? I also took after IronAngelAlice's lead and made some edits I felt were needed. Your feedback is needed, thanks. - ]] <sup>]</sup> 20:06, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


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:Sorry to hear that, no worries; Holidays were good the DUI hitting me from behind wasn't. I still have go through your old list and see what I've missed, and need to review Russo studies to see if "reinterpreted" is accurate in the lead. I came across conservative source, which may leads me to believe it isn't a reinterpretation. - ]] <sup>]</sup> 21:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
-----
In the immortal words of Miss Julie, "May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your ] never turn into a ]."


We miss you, ], as well as all the others who have graced our project and are on wiki-breaks or just got fed up with all the nuttiness and went to live their lives. Get your ] and hurry up and come back. --] (]) 16:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
:Well yes there is something wrong, I've allowed you to make poor additions to the article; I'm not being unreasonable, and don't mistake trying to improve the article with WP:OWN. I find some of your positions unverifiable or based on tangential interpretation of good (Jasen) and not so good (NCI) sources.
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To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know ].<br>If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let ] know.
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<small> This newsletter was delivered by ] around 16:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC). </small>] (]) 16:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:The reason this has occurred is because you found a misquote I made for Russo on carcinogens. Though as it turns out it actually was a small mistake as they mention higher carcinogen results for abortion from other studies in the first part of the paragraph on the previous page (something I obviously inferred into the quote). Initially this put me in a defensive position and less apt to challenge your edits; also I was busy and had less time and inclination to scrutinize your edits. I've unburdened myself of that and require you meet the same standards you justly prevail upon me.


== Hello ==
:While I'm certainly capable of being unreasonable, you'll have to be more specific if I am to address any valid concerns you have. Of recent decisions and edits, I truly fail to see anything amiss apart from verified edits you (and others) disagree with (such as Daling), which is good in my books because it may force y'all to reevaluate your perception of some aspects of the ABC evidence. Presenting Brind in such an unflattering conspiratorial way, and not bothering to present his POV does go against the policy I referred you to.


Hello Phyesalis! :) I'm sure you remember me from a couple of months ago. I haven't been editing or on Misplaced Pages much, but lately, I've came back to Misplaced Pages. Have you seen the changes to your ]? It looks really good. I am also reviving ] and the ], thought I'd let you know. I've been working on both pages, so check them out. --] (]) 20:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:It worries me, that instead of directly addressing my points; such as Daling's significant results, you side step the hard issues and questions and ask me to form a "consensus" for possible point of contention. There is no need to run the ABC article as if it were a democracy, if that happened you guys would continue to maintain ABC was/is "rejected" and akin to pseudoscience. Which it verifiably isn't.


==] Newsletter (July 2008)==
:Who died and made you or anyone else here more knowledgeable than me on the ABC issue? Why did you not notice and include Daling's statistically significant findings on nulliparous women? After all it was in the freely available abstract; and you've asserted yourself as well read on Daling and her work. Why did it take an accidental addition by a partisan pro-choice blogger to add WHO's notable interpretation of the ABC evidence to the lead? I'm digging in because you are being difficult. Yes, you are part of the problem Phyesalis... heh, and my long-windedness is too. You're convictions on ABC, Daling and other matters simply do not coincide precisely with the evidence; and when it does you are highly selective on the evidence you choose to consider. Mend your ways, or not, your prerogative... please just don't leave a disjointed mess on the ABC article and think I'll just leave it be based on your, at times, curiously sloppy interpretation of WikiPolicy.
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<big>'''The ] Newsletter!'''</big><br/> Issue XVI: ], ] <br />
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Hello, members and friends of WP:LGBT! Updates about our latest happenings in the gayest corner of Misplaced Pages.
:Truth be told, I've been aggrieved with the recent lack luster rationales recently put forward by those I've come to trust. But it seems when things become ambiguous and contentious, they also will opt for the direction they are most comfortable with. Ultimately, that good faith fallacy is what all of this is about; and seems to be the true extent of the "conspiracy" against the ABC hypothesis. No malevolence nor deceit, just poor weighing of evidence and arguments to suit a narrowly defined and frustratingly unimaginative "war". I appreciate and share your concern, for it is well justified; but directed at the wrong subject... me.


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:As to the GA, yes I agree... the article will continue to be unverified (rejected) and contested (editorial of Brind) if the changes I've outlined and supported with straightforward policy and reliable sources are not addressed. The weirdest part is, as I've said in the past, the ABC issue can actually be leveraged and utilized by the pro-choice movement against pro-life legislation. It's not my fault they've allowed themselves to be cornered into a defensive "deny all" mentality. Which has seen them lose ground over the years. - ]] <sup>]</sup> 02:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
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; Project News


;'''] at ]!'''
::I will copy and paste this to the ABC article talk, after you've had a chance to review it. As it has several ideas I'd like to reiterate there. - ]] <sup>]</sup> 02:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
An unfortunate effect of a group less active than in the past is that our articles lose integrity. This one is at ] for that reason. The ] is quite active as a result. You have the opportunity to help. This is the corest of our core articles, and it needs some attention because it gets a lot of controversial input from many sides. If you can spare any time to edit the article, please do what you can.


;'''] is at ]!'''
:::RoyBoy, I've come to value our civil and mostly good-natured exchanges. I'd like to get back to that point. How might we do this in a way that will showcase your hard work and get this article back to GA, if not on to FA? Because that's what we both want, right? ] (]) 02:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Soon after we were informed that Homosexuality is being scrutinized, we heard the same for one of our few Featured Articles. As a participant of the Featured Article process, I think this is actually a good thing. The standards for Featured Articles are getting higher with time. But as a member of this project, that means that a few of ours may be de-listed unless someone can swoop in and save them. This one has to do with the designation of homosexuality as a crime in Germany. Most of this article's sources are in German. If anyone has any particular skill in this area, please lend a hand!


;'''] is at ]! Wtf is going on?'''
::::While I've learned from experience ] is impossible with time, empathy and good faith collaborators; sometimes you just don't have those elements. When this occurs ] rule the roost, careful contributors leave out of frustration, and critics of Misplaced Pages chuckle.
I know you folks think I have much experience in a gay bathhouse, and I hate to disappoint you, but I actually do not. I seem like the sort of person who likes to stroll about in a towel. Shocking, no? It appears that ] is single-handedly addressing all the problems with this article at its GA Review. While that's pretty impressive, it's also no doubt exhausting. Can anyone help out there?


;'''Two ]s and a nominee!'''
::::I just spent half my evening on this, and no article content has been improved or generated. This is why Misplaced Pages is not a democracy. Yes, consensus is key... but without one, you get mixed results. I'm so out of it, I want to ask you an off-topic question. Do you understand the significance of "death" being in the Abortion lead? Or do you just see POV pro-life language? - ]] <sup>]</sup> 05:39, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
In what I hope will counter the jolt of re-evaluating three Good or Featured Articles, ] and ] passed as Good Articles, and ] (famous San Francisco oft-raided gay bar) is nominated, all by ]. Rock on, man. You're a machine. Good luck with your nominations. What is it about women that make them gay icons? And are there lesbian icons that aren't lesbians? How about bisexual icons? Am I the only lesbian who reacts with soul-trembling fear at the sight of ]?


;''']'''
:::::You know what I think - I think you need some chocolate covered almonds! Seriously, why don't we both agree to step back from ABC, and its talk page, for 24 hours, maybe even 48 (and give poor MastCell a break :)? Many of the changes you want are in the article as it stands. It's not going anywhere. Let's just step away for 48 hrs and then regroup. We can generate a list of debated inclusions/exclusions and work on them one by one, come to an agreement, and get the article relisted. I'll spend the time not working on the article thinking of ways to improve on our process. ] (]) 06:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
New WP:LGBT studies member ] has done this cool thing. If you click on that link, you'll see all the articles, categories, templates, and miscellany up for deletion. They're usually there because they're not considered to be ]. That can be a relative concept, and sometimes it has to be argued that topics pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender issues ''are'' notable.


;'''Completely naked women!'''
Ha! Made you look! Even the guys are looking. Gay pioneers ]'s and ]' collection of photographs are up at the . Want to see images of the ? How about , drag queen extraordinaire, and Stonewall Riots participant? Or the contact sheet for ] that showed ? Ok I did mention naked women, and it's true. I found naked pictures of Barbara Gittings. But I scrolled through all of them and you'll have to as well. I'm not that mean, though. . How cute is she?

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;'''Tagging articles'''
It seems a recurring issue which articles to tag, and what to say about a topic that's tagged. Certainly, because an article falls under our scope doesn't necessarily make the person gay. Florida Governor ] has been rumored to be gay in some newspaper accounts. Although we all know ] is supergay, he won't admit it so instead he does the absolutely awfulest anti-gay things on the planet to deflect suspicion. ], the red headed stepchild of the LGBT world, is tagged with an explanation we have yet to decide if we'll keep.


;'''Member Spotlight: ]'''
In the lurking I do around and about on Wiki, I've long been astounded at the forbearance Benjiboi has for the utterly insane. Perhaps not so much, since the message on Benji's talk page notes frequent absences due to homophobia and transphobia. But it takes some kind of ... ''something'' that I don't have to face the constant anti-gay POV Benji does.

Benjiboi is a a bit of a ], a ] and also a member of ] in addition to being a LGBT project member. A few of Benjiboi's favorite links for making the wikiverse more fab are:
#], a must for anyone redecorating an article.
#], a wonderful and fully linked essay about sourcing and why we need more and better sources.
#, which also searches Google books, is a great help in finding reliable sources.

;'''Member Spotlight: ]'''

Becksguy didn’t start actively editing until May 2007. His most frequent tasks on Wiki include reverting vandalism to LGBT articles and creating new project-related articles. He comes from New York state, and to prove not all of us are teenagers (ha! I am so totally 15!) he's in his 60s and retired.

Becksguy considers his biggest triumph on Misplaced Pages so far was a ] in December 2007 for the first-ever newspaper report on what became ], in the '']''. He's also helped save several project-related articles from deletion. His lowest moment here was getting involved in the discussion on a particular terrorism related article, thinking he could help calm the roiled waters on an extremely contentious subject with multiple edit wars and passionate editors.
Here at WP:LGBT, he creates and improves articles that present notable LGBT related subjects in a fair and balanced way, and tries to include more of the significant alternative sexuality related subjects without being an activist, and works to better source project-related articles.

On Misplaced Pages as a whole, he says, "I think we need to learn better what processes work for a massive collaborative project. Some of what worked well for a more informal small project doesn’t scale up well. Process is not as important when the participants know each other. We need to get more of the current members to be more active. If more members were energized, the project would be able to accomplish more. We should be, in effect, the smaller and included Misplaced Pages for LGBT related subjects. Overall, I wish we could focus more on content creation and improvement, and less on vandal fighting."

;'''Fresh faces to brighten our pages'''
Welcome to all of our new members!: ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ]
If you have a question about anything, drop your question on ]. We'll do our best to answer.

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''"A ] decision in 1958 reversed a 1956 ruling by a federal district court that U.S. postal authorities were correct in prohibiting the mailing of the ]'s ] magazine. The lower court had ruled that ''ONE'' was not protected by the ] because the magazine's contents 'may be vulgar, offensive, and indecent even though not regarded as such by a particular group ... because their own social or moral standards are far below those of the general community ... Social standards are fixed by and for the great majority and not by and for a hardened or weakened minority.'"'' - Michael Bronski in ''Pulp Friction'', 2003

Thanks for being weak and having lowered standards with me. --] (]) 00:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
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To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know ].<br>If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let ] know.
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:*<small>Newsletter delivery by ] 13:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)</small>

==] Newsletter==

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<big>'''The ] Newsletter!'''</big><br/> Issue XVII: ], ] <br />
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<font color=red>'''Wake up WP:LGBT! It's time to kick in gear and get some things done!'''</font>

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; Project News

;'''''Wake up!'''''
I say this to myself as much as I say it to all of us. I work a lot by myself or with individual editors who spend time at ]. It seems on November 5 a fog was lifted off my brain that helped me realize that we have massive potential in this project to get things done. Take this allegory, for instance: ''On Wednesday, Nov. 5, 1980, my 10th-grade American history teacher started class by unfurling The New York Times. She pointed to its triple banner headline: “Reagan Easily Beats Carter; Republicans Gain in Congress; D’Amato and Dodd are Victors.” “Save this paper,” she told us. “This is the start of a whole new era.”''

It definitely seems a start to a whole new era now. If planets align correctly to remind us that whatever advances we may have made in electing what appears to be an ] in the US, the moons that revolve around those planets also serve to illustrate it's not that simple. Florida, Arizona, and California all appear to have banned ]. As someone who was married in California and lives in Florida, this is particularly poignant. We seem to be at the juncture of two converging paths. If we maximize our efforts and take the right ones, we might just be able to affect some change for ourselves.

;'''The power of Misplaced Pages and ]'''
Though what we do is an interesting hobby for some, we have the power to make a difference. California's ballot initiative to ban gay marriage was a fierce fight. It's being challenged right now, but just look at how Misplaced Pages played a role in that: in October 2008, 360,238 people read its article. On November 5, an astounding . I commend the editors who work on that article—both those who support and oppose it. A look at the talk page shows a concerted effort to keep it civil and accurate.

;'''What can we do?'''
How do you fight ignorance? With information. That's what Misplaced Pages is for. This project is overwhelming with '''8,576 articles''' in its scope. We can continue to work piecemeal as we have in the past, or we can focus on goals. These are examples of areas we can concentrate on.

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! Current political events
! LGBT Media and Literature
! LGBT History
! Sex and sexuality
|-
| Articles about political issues in the US and around the world that have been especially relevant within the past 5 years
| Depictions of LGBT people and issues on television, film, newspapers, magazines
| Topics about gay rights activism and the opposition to it
| Articles relating to sex and sexuality
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| ], ], ], etc.
| '']'', ], '']'', ], '']'', etc.
| ], ], ], ], ], ], ], etc.
| ], ], ], ], sexual and gender expression, etc.
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There are more than 8,000 articles to work on. Can we build a list of priorities? Can we build enough enthusiasm to work on these? What if we had editors who oversaw progress in these areas and reported to the talk page or in the newsletter? Surely someone here wants to report on the progress of sex articles.

Tony Perkins (]) from the conservative ''']''' The Republican Party is without direction. What's going to take the place of a moderate voice will not be pleasant to our ears. Watching and improving articles of subjects that have opposed gay rights in the past will be of vital importance very soon, I predict.

;'''But WP:LGBT is not a very active project'''
All we can do is start somewhere. The first step is answering this newsletter on the project talk page. Join in the discussion.

;'''More things we can do'''
* Give out more ''']s''', and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
* Create a guide to '''stave off burnout''', because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
* Bring back the '''monthly collaboration project'''.
* Participate in LGBT '''Peer reviews'''.
* Get familiar with the characteristics of '''Good Articles''' and get our top priority articles to ].
* Keep our ] and ] '''updated'''.
* Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
* Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and '''support''' to '''your fellow editors'''.
* Keep the '''] informed of problems''' and discussions we should know about.

;'''Proposal: Put Importance Levels on articles'''
If this was decided long before I was a member, maybe it's time to revisit it. Other WikiProjects, such as ] determine that some subjects have an importance category: Top, High, Mid, Low, or None (undetermined). If we decide that our most core articles, it might help to organize which articles to address first. Top importance, for example, would be ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], for example. High importance would be ], ], ], ], or ], and so on. This can be a matter of discussion, or perhaps we could have someone in charge of determining these levels for all the articles we have tagged.

;'''So, like ], ]'''
The editors I have admired in the past, who have done great things alone, and who I think can help us all do extraordinary things now: ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ] (I ''will'' marry you), ], ], ], ] (I know you're out there), ], and my very ] copy editor, ].

These are the editors I've seen working (and I know I'm forgetting a few). There's more of you out there I haven't seen. Some of you are new. We need all of you. Please help.

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| colspan="2" valign="top" style="border: 2px #4B0082 solid; padding: 1em; width: 55%; background-color: #E6E6FA;" |

Miami, January 18, 1977 after the gay rights ordinance was passed: ''While ] and the others were creating the beginnings of the repeal effort, (gay activists) Basker, Campbell, Kunst, and the other (gay rights) ordinance supporters congratulated themselves on their success and then quickly disbanded... There was no organized recognition or celebration of the victory. As one activist remembered, "We just went home." They had little idea of the battle that was before them.'' - Fred Fejes in ''Gay Rights and Moral Panic'', 2008

Don't go home yet, please. --] (]) 00:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
|-
| valign="top" colspan="2" style="padding: 0.5em; text-align: right; font-size: 85%; " |
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know ].<br>If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let ] know.
|}
|}<small>This newsletter was sent by ]'''&nbsp;<small>(])</small>''' at 21:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC) by the request of ] (])</small>

== Jesus Myth Hypothesis ==

Have you seen the ] article lately? I think we are finally making some progress and I remember your input on the talk page. It would be good to see some old hands return now that the article seems to actually be going somewhere.--] (]) 08:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

== Lev ==

] <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:19, 4 March 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== ] Newsletter (June 2009) ==
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! style="background-color: #CC99FF; border: 3px solid #CC99FF; text-align: center;" |<big>'''The ] Newsletter:<br/>
Special Pride 2009 Booty call edition'''</big>
|-
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]
<big>'''The ] Newsletter!'''</big><br/> Issue XVIII: June 24, 2009 <br />
| valign="middle" align="right" style="width: 45%; border: 0px; background-color:#E6E6FA; padding: 1em;" |
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<big><font color=red>'''Yo, happy ] y'all - are you ready for your ]?'''</font></big>

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;<u>]</u>

;How do you change the world? You can start by writing an incredible article for the world's encyclopedia. Moni3 kicks it old school again with ] - ''a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969 at the ]. hey have become the defining event that marked the start of the ] in the United States and around the world.'' It's a featured article hitting the mainpage this Sunday to mark the 40th anniversary of the events. So first off, wow! Clever and cool. Moni3 has been recently named hottest delegate to Obama's bookclub but that may not be official yet. (Shhh!)

Otto4711 mentioned that gee we really should swamp the DYK section with LGBT-related articles for use on the 28th as well. We have eight or so in the ] and if you push yourself to get an article together you might be able to get in on the fun. <big>'''Do this now!'''</big>

The official rules for DYKs can be found ]. Once you have expanded an article 5-fold or created an article with at least 1,500 characters of prose, place your DYK thread ]. Use handy tool to count your 1,500 characters. As a suggestion, when you add your potential hook, include the character count and a link to the source(s) that confirm the hook. These will be confirmed anyway but may help.

;<u>Trans quotes needed for ]</u>
The layout for the individual quotes is ] (just copy/paste into one of the red links on ]). Then ] has to be upped to match the new # of total quotes (not counting quote zero).

;<u>Obama proclamation</u>
On June 1, June 2009 Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, citing the riots as a reason to "commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans". Excerpts at the bottom.

;<u>F*ck me I'm famous</u>
I was interviewed by ''Misplaced Pages Signpost'', the weekly in-house newsletter, for the ]. The ''Signpost'' has nearly 1,000 Wikipedian subscribers and arguably many of those folks actually read it. It came about rather quickly and my worst fears - that it was an elaborate hoax by a troll - were apparently unfounded. I hope y'all feel I did fine by the project, I did my best to avoid the phrase "]" but otherwise did ok.

;<u>Free image appeal</u>
A friendly reminder to consider taking photos while you're ] at various ]es and ]s. Consider donating them to the world at ]. I'm sooo totally over having to deal with lovely images being deleted and argued about. If they are just free they are then also freely usable worldwide. And no, they don't need photos of your ] or ].

;<u>]</u>
]'s daughter was a famous lesbian and now he's a famous ], possibly the most famous in the world. This also serves as a friendly reminder that we recently updated ] - it's not perfect but should help inform on those gnip-gnop battles that do seem to drag on, and not in the ].

;<u>R U Popular?</u>
] is a new handy place to see which LGBT-tagged pages are the most popular in any given month.

;<u>Article alerts</u>
As part of the redecorating at ], the article alerts and keyword search alerts are handily located at the top of the page. Always fascinating to see what's up. All help appreciated on those.

;<u>Glambert</u>
] is soooo gay - surprised? Neither is anyone else. Nuff said. ] was ] but apparently he wasn't terribly in either.

;<u>Community Quilt reminder</u>
] - update it and add yourself!

;<u>Our own little IRC home</u>
The LGBT studies project does have its own free ] channel, {{IRC|wikipedia-en-lgbt}}, for coordination, collaboration and socializing. This channel is hosted on ] and can be accessed in one of two ways: If you already have an ], click the link to the left. If you do not have an IRC client, you'll need to get one installed on your computer first. Once you've done this, then click on the link to the left.

For more general information on IRC and a listing of other useful Misplaced Pages-related channels, see ].

The project had at one point another channel at {{IRC|LGBTproject}} but as the original people associated with the setting up and administration of that channel have seemed to have disappeared, this new channel has been set up. Plus the new channel is inline with required naming conventions for Misplaced Pages related IRC channels. So, feel free to use this channel. Such a channel gives opportunity to discuss the latest happening on articles, the LGBT project itself, latest happening in your life with "wiki-friends" here, etc.. You can say things on there you normally wouldn't here on Misplaced Pages (keeping it civil of course) like talk about the latest hot guy/girl or tell a joke.. you get the point. Anyway, see you there - eventually!

;<u>LGBT to-do list (held over from last edition)</u>
* Give out more ''']s''', and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
* Create a guide to '''stave off burnout''', because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
* Bring back the '''monthly collaboration project'''.
* Participate in LGBT '''Peer reviews'''.
* Get familiar with the characteristics of '''Good Articles''' and get our top priority articles to ].
* Keep our ] and ] '''updated'''.
* Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
* Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and '''support''' to '''your fellow editors'''.
* Keep the '''] informed of problems''' and discussions we should know about.

|-
| colspan="2" valign="top" style="border: 3px pink solid; padding: 2em; width: 55%; background-color: #E6E6FA;" |

{{cquote|There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. n both the White House and the Federal agencies -- openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism. <br/> LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.<br/> At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing "]" policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security. <br/> As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. <br/> I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists.'' - Barack Obama, , The White House (June 1, 2009).}}

] ladies and gents, home is where ] is! ]

|-
| valign="top" colspan="2" style="padding: 0.5em; text-align: right; font-size: 85%; " |
To receive this newsletter in a different format, please let us know ].<br>If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let ] know.
|}
|}
::*<small>Newsletter delivery by ] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)</small>

== WikiProject Feminism ==

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|-
| ]
|
Hello, '''Feminism Task Force Member'''! Please accept this invitation to join ] on creating a full-fledged '''WikiProject Feminism'''. If you support this idea, please register your support ]. All feedback is appreciated! Thanks!
|}

== A cup of tea for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Hi Phyesalis! I know it's been quite sometime since you've edited. I do hope you'll see this cup of tea! I just wanted you to know that your contributions are valuable to making Misplaced Pages what it is, and I do hope you'll participate with a new edit or article. Thank you for your contributions - past and future! ] (]) 01:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
|}


== Just to let you know -- Missing Wikipedians ==
===To your question===
As for your question, let me mirror what I think you are asking me. When you write "''Do you understand the significance of "death" being in the abortion lead? Or do you just see POV pro-life language?''" I see a loaded question, the bullet being the assumption that the two are mutually exclusive. When you phrase the question as such, I kind of feel like I'm being set up.


You have been mentioned at ]. X] (]) 20:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
But you have asked the question, and I will do my best to answer. I do see ''a'' significance, that some people think it is important to stress the death of the embryo or fetus. Do I see this as a form of POV pushing? Well, yes, in a way. But frankly I don't care. Abortion is a procedure that terminates pregnancy - another way to look at it is that abortion kills an embryo/fetus. Both have their advantages. On the one hand, the former has less emotional rhetoric. On the other had, the latter does get to the heart of the matter. Abortion is a form of death/killing. I'm ok with that. I think it's a matter of intellectual dishonesty to avoid that basic truth. Do I think that it needs to be stated as it is in the first sentence of the lead? No. It could be dealt with in a section dealing with Pro-life perspectives. But whatever, that's not a battle I choose to fight at the moment (if ever). Why do you ask? ] (]) 06:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


== ]! ==
== Asian fetish ==


<div style="padding:3em; font-family:'Helvetica Neue',sans-serif; font-size:110%; line-height:1.75;">
Honestly, I don't agree with adding the fact that she was a former sex worker in first place, but it's really trivial to argue over small things in first place. Quite frankly, his edit summaries and his conduct doesn't really give me the desire to work with him constructively. I just don't think that her description needs to be that specific and I find it almost excessive. I feel like saying that she is "a former worker and an advocate for sex workers' rights" gets to the point with brevity without saying "she is a spokesperson for so and so." By the way, feel free to provide your input at RfC. Thanks. ] 18:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
You are invited to participate in ''']'''!


* ''What?'' ''']''', a campaign to document and photograph '''] culture and history''', including pride events
:I agree that adding the "work history" datum is a bit unnecessary. Personally, I seem to remember her making an argument on the subject as it was tied to prostitution. If we use a quote to that effect, the datum might be relevant. If not, I think maybe just limiting her context to the singular but specific mention of PONY advocacy would be more than enough. ] (]) 18:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
* ''When?'' '''June 2015'''
* ''How can you help?''
*: 1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work ''']'''
*: 2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Misplaced Pages articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see ])
*: 3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (''']''', ''']''', ''']''', ].)


Or, view or update the current list of ''']'''. This campaign is supported by the ''']''', an officially recognized affiliate of the ]. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow ''''''. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a ]. One does ''not'' need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Misplaced Pages, plain and simple, and all are welcome!
== ] ==


If you have any questions, please ].
Thanks for your note. I'll see what I can do in terms of looking over the discussion and evaluating the source material, etc. I ''think'' I'm pretty good at sorting these sorts of things out but we'll see. I usually read the talk page thoroughly to get a feeling for the dispute before wading into the discussion and I haven't done that yet. Cheers, ]] 05:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


:I probably won't get around to doing anything tonight but I appreciate the information that this might be an extension of other conflicts. I'll have to deal with the article in front of me though, and not get into any other issues. My initial impression is that the article may need some refocusing of the topic and a clearer sense of the coverage of article (what to include or exclude) and perhaps a little restructuring. The sources mostly seem good altho the ones in the Men section seem weaker at first glance. This is just a first pass impression so don't hold me to it. I'll probably comment later today (Weds) on the talk page of the article with whatever meager opinions I can offer. Cheers, ]] 06:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


Thanks, and happy editing!
::Re: disengagement. Not a problem. Sometimes it is the best course of action to gain perspective, particularly in heated discussions like this one. I'll be keeping an eye on the article but don't hesitate to ask me to take a closer look if I miss something. Blackworm has a point as well as an obvious POV in relation to this article. However I believe his time would be better spent conceptualizing a structured counterpoint section with relevant and valid sources/cites than haggling over wording in the first few sentences. Such a section would make it much easier to incorporate the view into the lede of the article. Um, sorry to think aloud to you; that's unlikely to help you disengage and I do think a period of disengagement is a good idea for you. Cheers, ]] 19:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


] and ]
== Asian fetish ==
</div>


== ] ==
Thanks for offering your help despite your edit war at reproductive rights. Based on your civility you demonstrated to other editors, I'm sure it will go the right direction in the end. After ] was protected, ] suggested editing the article at a sandbox as a temporary solution. I deleted fringe solutions and thus some of the sections have been left blank. I would appreciate it if you would take a look at the article at ]. It has additional sources from the Rolling Stones and GLAAD which I think are reliable. ] 20:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 16:21, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
:Yea, feel free to copy edit. ] 21:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Mdann52@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Mdann52/list&oldid=692040667 -->


== Wiki Loves Pride 2016 ==
::Hey, thanks for your feedback. The sandbox was supposed to be a temporary solution for protection so feel free to edit or invite other users to improve the article. ] 23:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


As a participant of ], you are invited to participate in the third annual ''']''' campaign, which runs through the month of June. The purpose of the campaign is to create and improve content related to ] culture and history. How can you help?
== Vague categorisation ==
:# Create or improve LGBT-related Misplaced Pages pages and showcase the results of your work ''']'''
:# Document local LGBT culture and history by taking pictures at pride events and uploading your images to Wikimedia Commons
:# Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (''']''', ''']''', ''']''', ].)


Looking for topics? The ''']''' page, which you are welcome to update, offers some ideas and wanted articles.
Just wanted to say that categorisation such as is so vague as to be useless, and it clogs the master categories. People wanting to know about topics pertaining to geography won't want to know about some village in where ever that is. I changed it to the more specific ]. ] (]) 13:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


This campaign is supported by the ''']''', an officially recognized affiliate of the ]. The group's mission is to develop LGBT-related content across all Wikimedia projects, in all languages. Visit the affiliate's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow ''''''. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a ]. One does ''not'' need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Misplaced Pages, plain and simple, and all are welcome! If you have any questions, please ].
== disengage ==


Thanks, and happy editing! ---] <sub>(])</sub> 21:32, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Phyesalis I'm going to recommend you disengage from Blackworm. I'm advising you to follow ]. Step three - disengage. Pigman is a sysop and is aware of the situation. Wait for further engagement from him or others. Do not let this dispute (or the other two) spill-out and cause real stress - that will hamper your judgment. Disengage and come back to it tomorrow or the day after. The issue may not have been resolved but it might be better to take some time out and relax and come back to it with a fresh mind and renewed AGF. I've seen and mediated disputes before, temporary disengagement is a starting point for their resolution--] <sup>]</sup> 20:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
:Phyesalis, I hope you don't mind a suggestion from me, just to make sure you're aware of this option. You said, ''"I'm not answering directly because this isn't the appropriate place for this discussion. If you have an issue, I have invited you to discuss it on my talk page. Do I understand you correctly? You have refused my invitation and feel that the article talk page is a more appropriate place for this discussion?"'' An option you have, when asked a question you think is more appropriate on a user talk page, is to reply on your talk page, and put a brief note on the article talk page like ''"I've replied on my talk page."'' Whether the other person reads the reply is up to them. --] (]) 00:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 09:38, 1 May 2022

CautionTaking a brief wiki-break due to a new job (yeah!) - sorry for the inconvenience this may cause.

This is my talk page. I reserve the right to remove posts for inflammatory language, vandalism, unprovoked attacks and mortally-wounding stupidity. Although I'm not inclined to do so. I'm up for constructive criticism, genuine discussion of articles beyond their talk pages, and requests for help or explanation. I'm not up for pyrrhic partisan coup-counting (also known as "I gotcha last!"), angry pointless rants (although pleasant and amusing ones are not necessarily discouraged), and bitterness. Crankiness, ok - we all get cranky. But frankly, bitterness just ruins my day, so I try to avoid it when ever possible.


Archives

Archive 1 - 2006, Archive 2 - 2007, Archive 3, 2008.


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Philosphy of rights

While it's not saying the same thing that I'm saying, note the acknowledgement of a diversity of points of view about rights that is expressed in footnote 2 of Human Rights and Reproductive Choice by Freedman and Isaacs: "The philosophical basis for this right remains a matter of some disagreement. For some, reproductive rights are "natural rights", an inalienable part of each individual's essential humanity. For others, reproductive rights are socially determined needs derived from the unequal gender relations that prevail in most societies (see Petchesky, 1990)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coppertwig (talk • contribs) 01:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Both natural rights and social rights qualify as subsets of human rights - don't really see your point. -Phyesalis (talk) 01:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Re:Abortion and mental health

Hi Phyesalis, thank you for keeping in touch with me. Honestly, there are moments when I would rather talk to a wall, but you and MastCell seem very eager to compromise, preserve neutrality, and resolve dispute. By the way, I noticed that the sentence I did not want to see deleted is actually very redundant as the sentence, almost verbatim, is mentioned in the section "post-abortion syndrome." Do all negative symptoms fall under the umbrella term "post-abortion syndrome?" My understanding was different from this. миражinred (speak, my child...) 00:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

LOL! Thank you for such lovely praise, and you're more than welcome. I understand the desire to talk with walls, often I feel like banging my head against one. I can only speak for myself, but I try to keep it civil so that other productive editors (like you) don't get so fed up with contentious articles that they give up. As for your observation - you are correct, not all manifestations of negative responses constitute PAS - this goes back to the distinction User:Equazcion and I hashed out - the difference between weather and climate - a few days' of rainfall do not constitute a rainy climate just as a few days worth of negative emotional responses do not constitute depression or PAS. As for the redundancy, I'll go over the article again. --Phyesalis (talk) 01:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Interesting choice of analogy. By the way, it looks like IronAngelAlice found a study at Washington State University which says that abortion does not elevate the risk of suicide. To make it even better, it also seems quite recent since it says that the study was from 1987–2001. I think it's worth a look and should be added into the article. Well, keep up the good work, Phyesalis! миражinred (speak, my child...) 03:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

A small token of appreciation

The Surreal Barnstar
Consider this a gift from the hottest Korean in the world. (Yes, that's me) Although many users have been left frustrated at the stalemate abortion and mental health, you continue to keep your cool and strive to resolve disputes by collaborating with other editors. Keep up the good fight. миражinred (speak, my child...) 18:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
LOL! I'll treasure it always - it isn't every day I get a gift from the hottest Korean in the world! Thank you. --Phyesalis (talk) 18:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
LOL you must treasure them everyday. I happen to know this Asian kung-fu master who will be reading your mind 24/7 with his mad ninja skills. Be careful, he was known for his mastery since the Ming Dynasty. You may think that all of this is irrelevant since I am a Korean. However, all Asians are interconnected with an super-ancient web of filial piety. миражinred (speak, my child...) 19:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I was having a really bad day but now you've made me laugh (out loud no less) twice. Saranghae! (Yes, I just looked up what it meant.) I promise to be dutiful in treasuring my gift. ;) In return, I offer you the Korea Filial Piety Song. --Phyesalis (talk) 23:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
very important update: The ancient Kung-fu master summoned me to his opium den in Ming Dynasty to inform me that you did indeed appreciate my gift. However, I must warn you that the star was not crafted with ancient Chinese secrets. He was glad that you appreciated my gift since he would have had to call forth his ancestors from millions of centuries ago to curse you.
As for the eloquent song of filial piety, I was deeply moved as it praised my Asian roots that have been laced with super secrets that will entice all the men in the world. I wonder if the men at Newgrounds understood the lyrics which must sound foreign to their ears. By becoming the hottest Korean in the world, all of them would flock to me to decode the complex meaning of the song. миражinred (speak, my child...) 00:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Gosh I can't get the song out of my head. миражinred (speak, my child...) 00:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
ROTFL! Yay! You have truly reduced my wikistress level. --Phyesalis (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Subcategory/Task Force of Feminism

I replied to your comment to this topic at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies#Subcategory.2FTask_Force_of_Feminism. I wanted to say thanks for your support of the idea of the subcategory/task force. I am thinking of making it, but I want to be sure that it will actually have participants and that it will be active. I want it to be of use to others. You also made a rhyme in your comment. hehe --Grrrlriot (talk) 00:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I am still thinking of making the task force, but the question is where should I put it? Should it be part of the Gender Studies WikiProject or Should it be part of the Feminism Portal? I want to know your opinion on the matter. Thanks! --Grrrlriot (talk) 03:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
First off, wow - you've been incredibly industrious! I'd say put it up over at Portal:Feminism and then drop a linked note over at WT:GS, Talk:Feminism, maybe WT:LGBT, and then add a link on the GS and F portal mainspaces. Like in "Help Out". Keep up the good work. --Phyesalis (talk) 04:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the nice compliment and thanks for adding the "talkback" feature to my talk page. It seems pretty interesting and lets me know that you have contacted me. As for being industrious on wikipedia, that's me, and I'm the same way at my job. As for the feminism task force, I think its a good idea, despite the negatives that Cailil was pointing out. I appreciate his advice and his support. Lquilter seems to think that it is a good idea as well. I think I will be BOLD and make the task force within the next 24 hours. This will be the first task force I've ever made, so I will be quite new to making it. I'm not new to task forces, I'm a member of the Anarchism task force. (Keep an eye out on your talk page because I will let you know when I make it.) --Grrrlriot (talk) 05:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Great! Hey, you can just remove the template at the top of your talkpage. --Phyesalis (talk) 06:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I know I can remove it, but I think I'll keep it there. hehe As for having the task force on the portal, Where should it be on the portal? I know where to put it if I make it a part of the Gender Studies WikiProject. Also, I'm not good at making userboxes or templates for wikipedia, at all. I will need some for the task force. Do you know of someone (or perhaps yourself?) that can design some templates and userboxes and how can I have every user to be automatically added to the Category:Wikipedians interested in feminism‎ category once they sign up on the task force? I went ahead and edited your userpage and added the category to your page, so I hope you don't mind The category didn't exist, but one user was interested in it, however, I finally made the category myself. --Grrrlriot (talk) 16:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

(undent) I'm no good with graphics. I'd suggest asking User:Allstarecho, though. He seems pretty handy with them. He's part of the LGBT project but I'd bet he'd help if you can make him laugh. And no, I don't mind that you added me. Thanks. Also I added a red link to the task force page (currently uncreated) over at Portal:Feminism and Portal:Gender studies, so all you have to do is click it and start editing. Does that work for you? Feel free to tweak the link/name/whatever as needed. --Phyesalis (talk) 19:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm no good at graphics either. Once people decide to join the task force, maybe one of them will happen to be good at templates and userboxes. I'm going to start creating the task force right now. --Grrrlriot (talk) 20:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Feminist Theology

Hi,

Just wanted to let you know:

A. I couldn't agree more that we need some concrete suggestions to improve the neutrality of the Feminist Theology article. Someone mentioned including opposing points of view, but I'm not familiar with them.

B. I'm totally with you regarding the title of the article; I think it should be "Feminist Theology" for several reasons. Right now I'm trying to research feminists with a religious perspective, and theologians with a feminist perspective in order to bolster my argument. If you know of either, please let me know! Once I have my ducks in a row, I'll make the change and cross my fingers.  :-)

Thanks,

Webbbbbbber (talk) 18:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi again,
Thanks for your kind words and suggestions on my talk page.
Couple of questions: 1. How do I add myself to Wikipedians interested in Feminism? 2. Can you help me with finding some noteworthy Jewish Feminist Theologians? It occured to me that some people might associate "Theology" with "Christian Theology", and I want to be clear that many Feminist Theologians are: Muslim (as you pointed out--thank you!), Jewish, Pagan (lots of these!), as well as Atheist. I know of atheist theologians, but don't know of any feminist atheist theologians (atheist feminist theologians?).
I'm almost done with my supporting essay for changing the title of the article! At this point, I think all I need is a Jewish Feminist Theologian or two.
Thanks for your support!
Webbbbbbber (talk) 06:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
To add yourself to , Go to your user page and edit it. Scroll down past the save page section and click on {{]}} after the : symbol, type just like this: Wikipedians interested in feminism

--Grrrlriot (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

That's all you have to do. I hope this helps. --Grrrlriot (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I did it. Apparently you can't change the title of an article in WP, so I just removed the redirect from Feminist theology and copied the contents of Religious feminism Please let me know what you think! I hope that I did everything correctly. Webbbbbbber (talk) 21:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Phyesalis! I didn't know about moving articles...but now I do! I will leave a note on User:Shirahadasha's talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Webbbbbbber (talk • contribs) 23:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

RfC

I think I'm officially frustrated and discouraged enough to go through the trouble of putting together an RfC on Strider12 (talk · contribs). Thoughts? MastCell  23:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Where To Find Others To Invite To The Task Force

Here's a list of places/talk pages to post invites on: Try a link to Special:Whatlinkshere/Women's_rights, Special:Whatlinkshere/Feminism, Special:Whatlinkshere/Riot_Grrrl, Special:Whatlinkshere/User:Scartol/Userboxes/Feminism --Grrrlriot (talk) 23:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Gender Studies Portal

I updated and added some stuff to Portal:Gender studies. I don't know if it's very useful or not, but I did add a little to it. --Grrrlriot (talk) 18:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

One more thing, User:Scartol said he'd be glad to make templates and userboxes for the FTF. Yay!!! :) --Grrrlriot (talk) 23:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

RfC on Strider12

OK. I've put up the beginning of an RfC on Strider12 (talk · contribs). Please go to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Strider12 and take a look. If you're willing to certify that there is a dispute which you've tried but failed to help resolve, then please sign the section labeled "Users certifying the basis for this dispute". If it's not cosigned by 2 editors in the next 48 hours, it will be deleted. Your input is welcome. MastCell  23:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Done and done. Thank you for the detailed work you put into this issue. --Phyesalis (talk) 23:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Sorry, I just got back to Misplaced Pages after an extremely busy weekend. I see your point though, and you're right I probably should have found a better place to mention this (perhaps at the Village Pump, although I've only used that once). Simesa (talk) 11:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter
The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter!
Issue XIV - February 29, 2008
Article Milestones
The leprechaun is a male faerie in Irish mythology.

We have one new Featured Article this month - Emily Dickinson was recently promoted thanks to the hard work of Yllosubmarine! We also have 4 new GA-class articles: Ben Daniels, J. Michael Bailey, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, and Walt Whitman were promoted this month, but Dante's Cove was demoted.

Wikinews

Things are happening over at Misplaced Pages sister project Wikinews. First, Nicholas Turnbull became the first openly-Trans reporter to gain (resounding) accreditation by the Wikinews community. Second, project member David Shankbone is going to Rio de Janeiro at the invitation of the Rio Convention & Visitor's Bureau. Wikinews:Portal:LGBT

Lambda Book Report

Project member Moni3 has been working on the article for Barbara Gittings and noted that the Lambda Literary Foundation used the lead paragraph from Misplaced Pages, skillfully and lovingly written by Moni3, verbatim in the Lambda Literary Pioneers calendar. Moni3 contacted the Lambda Literary Foundation to let them know, and to ask if we could get a little write-up in the next Lambda Book Report. There is a preliminary text you can find here. Feel free to add to it. It should be no longer than 1,000 words, and it needs to be submitted by March 15.

New members

Let's give a big LGBT welcome to all our new members: Dylankidwell (talk · contribs), Jay*Jay (talk · contribs), Ftmichael (talk · contribs), AgnosticPreachersKid (talk · contribs), Phyesalis (talk · contribs) , Tullerk (talk · contribs), Ravenwhitehorse (talk · contribs), TigressofIndia (talk · contribs), Yohan euan o4 (talk · contribs), Masculinity (talk · contribs), Renegade Replicant (talk · contribs), and Youngwebprogrammer (talk · contribs)!

User categories

Place yourself in a user category so you can collaborate with other LGBT/Allied Wikipedians!

St. Patrick's Day

In honor of Saint Patrick's Day, why don't you consider improving one of these articles: Homosexuality and Roman Catholicism, LGBT rights in the Republic of Ireland, Campaign for Homosexual Law Reform, Recognition of gay unions in Ireland, List of gay and lesbian resource centres in Ireland, or any of the articles in our to-do list?

Women's History Month

March is Women's History Month in the United States. Help us celebrate by improving History of lesbianism or Lesbian American history! You could also find references for women in our giant list of LGB people to be sorted.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here.
If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let us know.

Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) SatyrBot (talk) 17:51, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Riffat Hassan

I've created this article per your request at the Award Center. I'm not an expert on such topics so I would never have been able to expand it past a start class, but I'd certainly say it's not a stub by any means.--Michael White 05:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Portal:Gender studies

I see you are currently on wiki-break, but if you still have interest in this portal, I've made some improvements/additions to the skeleton (I haven't added any content, though). Let me know what you think. Carom (talk) 02:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Abortion-breast_cancer_hypothesis#Disputed_status

I would like your input on removing the Disputed banner. Congrats on the new job, in keeping with your much deserved wiki-break, I will delay resubmitting it to GA review until mid-April. - RoyBoy 00:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Awards Center Newsletter

I'm pleased to announce that the Awards Center will be getting its own newsletter shortly. If you want to receive the WP:AWC newsletter, put your name here. --Sharkface217 19:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

How's it going?

I hope you're enjoying your new job.

I said I wasn't in a hurry, but I won't wait forever. Sorry, but if I don't hear from you soon, I'll start editing the articles you asked me not to edit. Regards, ☺Coppertwig (talk) 23:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Bill Moyers

Hi. Regarding Moyers' rather transparent liberal biases, do you not find it odd that a man who rants like a lunatic against people like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly similtaneously cozies up to the likes of Al Franken (left-winger), Keith Olbermann (left-winger) and Bill Maher (left-winger), happily appearing on their shows despite the fact that they're as biased, partisan and sensationalistic as Limbaugh and O'Reilly? You really don't believe that he is a "fair and balanced" journalist, do you? Jeremiah Wright uses his pulpit to promote such lies and opinions as FDR's knowledge of the impending Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor before the fact, that blacks were injected with syphilis by doctors (it's well known they already had syphilis), that comparing black brains to white brains is like comparing apples to rocks, and that white scientists working for the U.S. government created AIDS as a means to exterminate the black race. What did Moyers say about this? He lied through his teeth and stated that the media misinterpreted his views, defending Wright in a way he never in a million years would have done for a right-wing lunatic preacher. Also, any church/state issues he may have had with a Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson go right out the window when it's left-wing causes being promoted.

I long ago stated that I accept that Moyers is not a sensationalist; what he is unquestionably is a left-wing journalist. His claims that The NY Times, The LA Times, Harvard, The Boston Globe, MSNBC, Hollywood, et al. are only left-wing in the minds of the Republican Media Machine only further showcases his immense bias. Does any honest person really believe there is no left-wing media bias in the U.S., that only pro-Republican, pro-Conservative media forces promote such a view? What about the Harvard University study-- by a liberal university and including many liberal Democrats-- that showed the overal liberal bias of much of the mainstream U.S. media? Are left-wing Democrats also a part of this Republican Media Machine he, Al Franken, Eric Alterman, Robert Greenwald and David Brock so often speak of?

That so much of the criticism of Moyers' was removed from his page-- despite the fact that is was authenticated and despite the fact that O'Reilly has a Criticisms page longer than his regular Misplaced Pages page-- suggests to me that Moyers has a fanbase at Misplaced Pages that don't want him to be treated the same way O'Reilly or Limbaugh are treated.

Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh are partisan yahoos but Bill Maher, Al Franken and Keith Olbermann are not? Who is Moyers trying to fool here?

Gerkinstock (talk) 02:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. -- Here is another example of the man's blatant hypocrisy, disingenousness and bias:
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/1/16/bill_moyers_big_media_is_ravenous
The man who claims to oppose sensationalistic and biased media praises Michael Moore in a speech on media reform, alongside other left-wingers like Phil Donahue, Jesse Jackson, Jane Fonda and Helen Thomas. He pushes "progressive" politics and media yet claims to be a "journalist." Info regarding his bias has been gutted from his Misplaced Pages page yet his liberal bias is one of the defining characteristics of his life's work.
Gerkinstock (talk) 16:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter
The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter!
Issue XV: June 11, 2008

Hello, members and friends of WP:LGBT! I'm not one to be writing newsletters, but I miss our cruise director, Miss Julie, and our project is drifting along with a few leaking plugs in the bottom of the boat. Hey, it happens. Every group we join goes through changes. If Misplaced Pages weren't so interesting it wouldn't also be so frustrating sometimes. And vice versa. More than one Wikiproject has tumbleweeds blowing through it, but this is one that can't afford to let that happen. Even if you pop in to the talk page of the project, you can let us know you're still around.

WP:LGBT's Role in HIV / AIDS articles

It wouldn't be a proper gay community without a li'l bit o' drama! That's right. If we aren't arguing about something, then we should be asking if we're still queer. Maybe that's for the best, since we know we're still kicking. Our most recent topic is how far the role of our project should go in dipping our toes into HIV/AIDS articles. The main AIDS article was delisted as a Featured Article last month, sadly. (Sending a swift kick to WP:Medicine.) A spirited discussion is available for your entertainment on the WP:LGBT talk page about just how much of HIV and AIDS should we take on. As ever, we'll take your opinions under advisement. We're going to have to, because it doesn't seem to have been settled.

Is Pride POV?

We have a pretty cool sidebar that identifies core LGBT articles. Its symbol is the iconic gay pride flag, much like other Wikiprojects have iconic symbols denoting the topic is a core subject in a series of articles. However, a question recently arose asking if the symbol itself is not neutral. Should a pride flag show up at the top of the article on Conversion therapy? How else would anyone know the article is about queer issues? Is there another symbol that is as widely recognized and that includes all our many splintered facets? At what point do we stop asking ourselves all these questions and just go have a mint julep on the verandah and stop caring?

Harvey Milk and Jim Jones

For the love of all that is holy, no Kool Aid jokes. However, an editor involved in pioneering San Francisco Supervisor Harvey Milk's article has included a section about the late supervisor's support of Jim Jones and the People's Temple. While it may be accurate, there is a Request for Comment regarding how much emphasis the section places on Milk's support in light of his overall political influence on the city, and indeed the rest of the United States. Milk's article is a sad one in more ways than one. It lacks the detail and heart that honors its subject. Anyone want to do a barter with me? I'll bring Harvey Milk to featured status (give me a month or two so I can read stuff), if you do something of equal value to WP:LGBT?? Make me an offer...

Queer Studies is offensive!

The established branch of study known as Queer studies was brought up as an category for deletion because an editor was offended by the use of "queer" in the title. It was overwhelmingly rejected mostly by the usernames I see here on our Wikiproject page. (A clue that I know you are out there, hiding...biding your time...) So, I wish I could congratulate you, but now I'm all confused by my sympathy for the editor who was offended. So, if you're reading this, Moni has a short memory and can't remember your username. Don't be put off by our demonstrative pushiness. Join us. We can always use involved editors.

Lambda Literary Awards

What can you do to help the project out? Be a wiki-fairy, on many levels. There are all kinds of articles that need help. Why, just this morning I removed those ugly wikify and cleanup tags from four articles at random. If you can put ] around stuff, you can clean up articles. There's a list of articles that need attention at the top of the WP:LGBT talk page. Or you can start with the Lambda Literary Awards, where the goddess of my altar received a pioneering award, and was "reduced to rubble" by Katherine V. Forrest's wonderful speech. The 20th ceremony of the Lambda Literary Awards, which celebrates LGBT literature, took place in West Hollywood on May 29th . The page needs to be updated with the new winners, to be found on the official website .

Yeshayahu Leibowitz, Arthur C. Clarke and Bernard Montgomery

Why on earth would someone want to delete material about homosexuality? 'Tis truly a mystery. But these embattled articles have some random evil gnomes removing information that places these folks under our queer umbrella. Help us keep an eye out for the deletions. Take a peek at the articles, familiarize yourselves with the info, and be handy with the undo function in the article history. If tempers flare, take it to the Hall monitors and let them sort it out. Best solution is to make sure your sources are immaculate.

This month's Wiki stars

This is what I get for opening my big fat mouth and suggesting the newsletter should be revived. Here I am writing it. So, to pat self on back (*cough*) Mulholland Dr. became a featured article in May. This is A Good Thing since it is my personal declaration that there is no such thing as lesbian porn. I don't care what Benjiboi says about the video collection at goodvibes. Instead, we have hot women who connect on a deep, personal, soul-touching level, so this film should qualify as some of the skankiest porn available for lesbians. Plus, it's completely confusing and surreal! D'you think Laura Harring would care that the article is featured? I don't think so either... (Call me, Laura!)

Compulsive hoarding of templates

Once I saw a harrowing episode of Animal Planet's Animal Cops where this guy had, like, 250 cats in his house and it freaked me right out. I'm drawing a parallel between 250 cats and, well...three, really, templates in articles involving LGBT issues. Can we stick to one, maybe? In the aforementioned Harvey Milk's article there's a core LGBT template, a link to the LGBT portal, and a sidebar for LGBT rights. Jiminy! You'd think we weren't the folk to set industrial grey carpeting and track lighting in vogue. An LGBT footer was designed to link to articles of interest that aren't the aforementioned core articles. What do you think, can we have either an LGBT template for core articles, a footer for LGBT articles that are high profile but not core, or an LGBT rights template? As ever, anything's up for discussion on the WP:LGBT talk page.

The Violet Quill and magazines

Zigzig20s suggests we create an article on The Violet Quill, as it seems such a milestone in the advancement of gay/queer literature. Members of the Quill all have pages of their own (Edmund White, Christopher Cox, Robert Ferro, Michael Grumley, Andrew Holleran, Felice Picano, and George Whitmore). We need to find more info on the Quill per se to reference the page that we create. Perhaps Google Books - and libraries? - can help.

A number of magazines also need articles, perhaps most notably QW, LGNY, and Lesbian Feminist Liberation.

Mom's nagging for Pride Month

It's June, Pride month. Wear sunscreen, stay hydrated, get a designated driver, then go half-dressed in the streets find a girlfriend or boyfriend, or some homo who's standing there looking lonely and kiss 'em up real good. Remember, it all started 39 years ago when a bunch of drag queens just got fed the f*ck up by the cops raiding the bar and dragging them all out to the pokey again. Rock on, queens! Enjoy your celebrations. My town's is in October, and 200 people attend. I miss Denver.

Fresh faces to brighten our pages

Hey, I've seen you around! Sorry there seem to be so many—it's been a while. But we welcome you all: Cheezisyum21, Taineyah, Dustihowe, Avesta69, RachelSummers77, Vivekgopinathan, AMK1211, Staffwaterboy , Ted Ted, Joe5150, Leahtwosaints, Robapalooza, Arthomure, Confusionball, Affinity likely, PrinceOfCanada, Yobmod, Npd2983, Neagley, Bvlax2005, Bvlax2005, Rhullsf, Textorus, Kieran.casey, Tyciol, Meojive, Sappho'd, Bookkeeperoftheoccult, Gaywarrior, Aujourd'hui, maman est morte, and Balin42632003.

It looks like we've picked up a lot of talent lately. We have no doubt you'll be making your indelible mark on LGBT knowledge as we know it, here at Misplaced Pages.

In the immortal words of Miss Julie, "May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your Love Boat never turn into a Poseidon."

We miss you, Miss Julie, as well as all the others who have graced our project and are on wiki-breaks or just got fed up with all the nuttiness and went to live their lives. Get your stupid houses built and hurry up and come back. --Moni3 (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here.
If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Moni3 know.

This newsletter was delivered by §hepBot around 16:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC). ShepBot (talk) 16:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Hello Phyesalis! :) I'm sure you remember me from a couple of months ago. I haven't been editing or on Misplaced Pages much, but lately, I've came back to Misplaced Pages. Have you seen the changes to your Gender studies Portal? It looks really good. I am also reviving Portal:Feminism and the Portal:Feminism_Task_Force, thought I'd let you know. I've been working on both pages, so check them out. --Grrrlriot (talk) 20:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter (July 2008)

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter!
Issue XVI: July 23, 2008

Hello, members and friends of WP:LGBT! Updates about our latest happenings in the gayest corner of Misplaced Pages.

Project News
Homosexuality at Good Article Review!

An unfortunate effect of a group less active than in the past is that our articles lose integrity. This one is at Good Article Review for that reason. The talk page is quite active as a result. You have the opportunity to help. This is the corest of our core articles, and it needs some attention because it gets a lot of controversial input from many sides. If you can spare any time to edit the article, please do what you can.

Paragraph 175 is at Featured Article Review!

Soon after we were informed that Homosexuality is being scrutinized, we heard the same for one of our few Featured Articles. As a participant of the Featured Article process, I think this is actually a good thing. The standards for Featured Articles are getting higher with time. But as a member of this project, that means that a few of ours may be de-listed unless someone can swoop in and save them. This one has to do with the designation of homosexuality as a crime in Germany. Most of this article's sources are in German. If anyone has any particular skill in this area, please lend a hand!

Gay bathhouse is at Good Article Review! Wtf is going on?

I know you folks think I have much experience in a gay bathhouse, and I hate to disappoint you, but I actually do not. I seem like the sort of person who likes to stroll about in a towel. Shocking, no? It appears that Ashleyvh is single-handedly addressing all the problems with this article at its GA Review. While that's pretty impressive, it's also no doubt exhausting. Can anyone help out there?

Two GAs and a nominee!

In what I hope will counter the jolt of re-evaluating three Good or Featured Articles, José Sarria and Janet Jackson as gay icon passed as Good Articles, and Black Cat Bar (famous San Francisco oft-raided gay bar) is nominated, all by Otto4711. Rock on, man. You're a machine. Good luck with your nominations. What is it about women that make them gay icons? And are there lesbian icons that aren't lesbians? How about bisexual icons? Am I the only lesbian who reacts with soul-trembling fear at the sight of Angelina Jolie?

LGBT articles for deletion

New WP:LGBT studies member Pinkkeith has done this cool thing. If you click on that link, you'll see all the articles, categories, templates, and miscellany up for deletion. They're usually there because they're not considered to be not notable. That can be a relative concept, and sometimes it has to be argued that topics pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender issues are notable.


Completely naked women!

Ha! Made you look! Even the guys are looking. Gay pioneers Kay Lahusen's and Barbara Gittings' collection of photographs are up at the New York Public Library. Want to see images of the first Pride march in 1970 in New York City? How about Sylvia Rivera, drag queen extraordinaire, and Stonewall Riots participant? Or the contact sheet for The Ladder that showed full-face lesbians in print for the first time in US history? Ok I did mention naked women, and it's true. I found naked pictures of Barbara Gittings. But I scrolled through all of them and you'll have to as well. I'm not that mean, though. Here she is in the shower. How cute is she?

Tagging articles

It seems a recurring issue which articles to tag, and what to say about a topic that's tagged. Certainly, because an article falls under our scope doesn't necessarily make the person gay. Florida Governor Charlie Crist has been rumored to be gay in some newspaper accounts. Although we all know Fred Phelps is supergay, he won't admit it so instead he does the absolutely awfulest anti-gay things on the planet to deflect suspicion. NAMBLA, the red headed stepchild of the LGBT world, is tagged with an explanation we have yet to decide if we'll keep.


Member Spotlight: Benjiboi

In the lurking I do around and about on Wiki, I've long been astounded at the forbearance Benjiboi has for the utterly insane. Perhaps not so much, since the message on Benji's talk page notes frequent absences due to homophobia and transphobia. But it takes some kind of ... something that I don't have to face the constant anti-gay POV Benji does.

Benjiboi is a a bit of a WikiFaerie, a WikiGnome and also a member of the Article Rescue Squadron in addition to being a LGBT project member. A few of Benjiboi's favorite links for making the wikiverse more fab are:

  1. Manual of style, a must for anyone redecorating an article.
  2. Reliable sources in content review processes, a wonderful and fully linked essay about sourcing and why we need more and better sources.
  3. Google scholar, which also searches Google books, is a great help in finding reliable sources.
Member Spotlight: Becksguy

Becksguy didn’t start actively editing until May 2007. His most frequent tasks on Wiki include reverting vandalism to LGBT articles and creating new project-related articles. He comes from New York state, and to prove not all of us are teenagers (ha! I am so totally 15!) he's in his 60s and retired.

Becksguy considers his biggest triumph on Misplaced Pages so far was a DYK in December 2007 for the first-ever newspaper report on what became AIDS, in the New York Native. He's also helped save several project-related articles from deletion. His lowest moment here was getting involved in the discussion on a particular terrorism related article, thinking he could help calm the roiled waters on an extremely contentious subject with multiple edit wars and passionate editors.

Here at WP:LGBT, he creates and improves articles that present notable LGBT related subjects in a fair and balanced way, and tries to include more of the significant alternative sexuality related subjects without being an activist, and works to better source project-related articles.

On Misplaced Pages as a whole, he says, "I think we need to learn better what processes work for a massive collaborative project. Some of what worked well for a more informal small project doesn’t scale up well. Process is not as important when the participants know each other. We need to get more of the current members to be more active. If more members were energized, the project would be able to accomplish more. We should be, in effect, the smaller and included Misplaced Pages for LGBT related subjects. Overall, I wish we could focus more on content creation and improvement, and less on vandal fighting."

Fresh faces to brighten our pages

Welcome to all of our new members!: Balin42632003, supposedlydisposable, Axiomdragon, antcjone, Jamesgregg76, Taulapapa, Mushii, Pinkkeith, Gr8lyknow, EricV89, Varnent, Ged_UK, Richie wright1980, Auriel If you have a question about anything, drop your question on our talk page. We'll do our best to answer.

"A Supreme Court decision in 1958 reversed a 1956 ruling by a federal district court that U.S. postal authorities were correct in prohibiting the mailing of the Mattachine Society's ONE magazine. The lower court had ruled that ONE was not protected by the First Amendment because the magazine's contents 'may be vulgar, offensive, and indecent even though not regarded as such by a particular group ... because their own social or moral standards are far below those of the general community ... Social standards are fixed by and for the great majority and not by and for a hardened or weakened minority.'" - Michael Bronski in Pulp Friction, 2003

Thanks for being weak and having lowered standards with me. --Moni3 (talk) 00:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

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WikiProject LGBT studies Newsletter

The Miss Julie Memorial LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter!
Issue XVII: November 12, 2008

Wake up WP:LGBT! It's time to kick in gear and get some things done!

Project News
Wake up!

I say this to myself as much as I say it to all of us. I work a lot by myself or with individual editors who spend time at Featured Article Candidates. It seems on November 5 a fog was lifted off my brain that helped me realize that we have massive potential in this project to get things done. Take this allegory, for instance: On Wednesday, Nov. 5, 1980, my 10th-grade American history teacher started class by unfurling The New York Times. She pointed to its triple banner headline: “Reagan Easily Beats Carter; Republicans Gain in Congress; D’Amato and Dodd are Victors.” “Save this paper,” she told us. “This is the start of a whole new era.” Judith Warner from The New York Times

It definitely seems a start to a whole new era now. If planets align correctly to remind us that whatever advances we may have made in electing what appears to be an extraordinary president in the US, the moons that revolve around those planets also serve to illustrate it's not that simple. Florida, Arizona, and California all appear to have banned same sex marriage. As someone who was married in California and lives in Florida, this is particularly poignant. We seem to be at the juncture of two converging paths. If we maximize our efforts and take the right ones, we might just be able to affect some change for ourselves.

The power of Misplaced Pages and California Proposition 8 (2008)

Though what we do is an interesting hobby for some, we have the power to make a difference. California's ballot initiative to ban gay marriage was a fierce fight. It's being challenged right now, but just look at how Misplaced Pages played a role in that: in October 2008, 360,238 people read its article. On November 5, an astounding 467,000 people read it. I commend the editors who work on that article—both those who support and oppose it. A look at the talk page shows a concerted effort to keep it civil and accurate.

What can we do?

How do you fight ignorance? With information. That's what Misplaced Pages is for. This project is overwhelming with 8,576 articles in its scope. We can continue to work piecemeal as we have in the past, or we can focus on goals. These are examples of areas we can concentrate on.

Current political events LGBT Media and Literature LGBT History Sex and sexuality
Articles about political issues in the US and around the world that have been especially relevant within the past 5 years Depictions of LGBT people and issues on television, film, newspapers, magazines Topics about gay rights activism and the opposition to it Articles relating to sex and sexuality
Florida Amendment 2 (2008), California Proposition 8 (2008), E.O. Green School shooting, etc. The Advocate, Curve (magazine), Washington Blade, Milk (film), Brokeback Mountain, etc. Moral Majority, ACT UP, Queer Nation, Mattachine Society, Jesse Helms, Jerry Falwell, Mathew Shepard, etc. Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, sexual and gender expression, etc.

There are more than 8,000 articles to work on. Can we build a list of priorities? Can we build enough enthusiasm to work on these? What if we had editors who oversaw progress in these areas and reported to the talk page or in the newsletter? Surely someone here wants to report on the progress of sex articles.

Tony Perkins (irony) from the conservative Family Research Council was heartened by the recent passages of gay marriage bans. The Republican Party is without direction. What's going to take the place of a moderate voice will not be pleasant to our ears. Watching and improving articles of subjects that have opposed gay rights in the past will be of vital importance very soon, I predict.

But WP:LGBT is not a very active project

All we can do is start somewhere. The first step is answering this newsletter on the project talk page. Join in the discussion.

More things we can do
  • Give out more barnstars, and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
  • Create a guide to stave off burnout, because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
  • Bring back the monthly collaboration project.
  • Participate in LGBT Peer reviews.
  • Get familiar with the characteristics of Good Articles and get our top priority articles to WP:GA.
  • Keep our project page and open tasks template updated.
  • Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
  • Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and support to your fellow editors.
  • Keep the project talk page informed of problems and discussions we should know about.
Proposal: Put Importance Levels on articles

If this was decided long before I was a member, maybe it's time to revisit it. Other WikiProjects, such as WP:Novels determine that some subjects have an importance category: Top, High, Mid, Low, or None (undetermined). If we decide that our most core articles, it might help to organize which articles to address first. Top importance, for example, would be Gay, Homosexual, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Sappho, Oscar Wilde, Stonewall riots, for example. High importance would be Homosexuality and psychology, Harvey Milk, Mattachine Society, Harry Hay, or Daughters of Bilitis, and so on. This can be a matter of discussion, or perhaps we could have someone in charge of determining these levels for all the articles we have tagged.

So, like Slim Whitman, "I'm Calling You"

The editors I have admired in the past, who have done great things alone, and who I think can help us all do extraordinary things now: SatyrTN, Dev920, Aleta, Becksguy, Otto4711, BelovedFreak, Benjiboi, Bookkeeper of the Occult, Queerudite, FisherQueen (I will marry you), PaulB, APK, ZigZig20s, AllStarEcho (I know you're out there), Raystorm, and my very own copy editor, Dank55.

These are the editors I've seen working (and I know I'm forgetting a few). There's more of you out there I haven't seen. Some of you are new. We need all of you. Please help.

Miami, January 18, 1977 after the gay rights ordinance was passed: While Bryant and the others were creating the beginnings of the repeal effort, (gay activists) Basker, Campbell, Kunst, and the other (gay rights) ordinance supporters congratulated themselves on their success and then quickly disbanded... There was no organized recognition or celebration of the victory. As one activist remembered, "We just went home." They had little idea of the battle that was before them. - Fred Fejes in Gay Rights and Moral Panic, 2008

Don't go home yet, please. --Moni3 (talk) 00:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

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This newsletter was sent by §hepBot (Disable) at 21:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC) by the request of Moni3 (talk)

Jesus Myth Hypothesis

Have you seen the Jesus myth hypothesis article lately? I think we are finally making some progress and I remember your input on the talk page. It would be good to see some old hands return now that the article seems to actually be going somewhere.--BruceGrubb (talk) 08:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Lev

Leviticus 18:22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.88.229 (talk) 23:19, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject LGBT studies Newsletter (June 2009)

The Miss Julie Memorial LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter:

Special Pride 2009 Booty call edition

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter!
Issue XVIII: June 24, 2009

Yo, happy Pride y'all - are you ready for your close-up?

Stonewall riots
How do you change the world? You can start by writing an incredible article for the world's encyclopedia. Moni3 kicks it old school again with Stonewall riots - a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969 at the Stonewall Inn. hey have become the defining event that marked the start of the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. It's a featured article hitting the mainpage this Sunday to mark the 40th anniversary of the events. So first off, wow! Clever and cool. Moni3 has been recently named hottest delegate to Obama's bookclub but that may not be official yet. (Shhh!)

Otto4711 mentioned that gee we really should swamp the DYK section with LGBT-related articles for use on the 28th as well. We have eight or so in the holding area and if you push yourself to get an article together you might be able to get in on the fun. Do this now!

The official rules for DYKs can be found here. Once you have expanded an article 5-fold or created an article with at least 1,500 characters of prose, place your DYK thread here. Use this handy tool to count your 1,500 characters. As a suggestion, when you add your potential hook, include the character count and a link to the source(s) that confirm the hook. These will be confirmed anyway but may help.

Trans quotes needed for Portal:Transgender

The layout for the individual quotes is here (just copy/paste into one of the red links on Portal:Transgender/Random quote). Then this counter has to be upped to match the new # of total quotes (not counting quote zero).

Obama proclamation

On June 1, President Barack Obama declared June 2009 Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, citing the riots as a reason to "commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans". Excerpts at the bottom.

F*ck me I'm famous

I was interviewed by Misplaced Pages Signpost, the weekly in-house newsletter, for the WikiProject report. The Signpost has nearly 1,000 Wikipedian subscribers and arguably many of those folks actually read it. It came about rather quickly and my worst fears - that it was an elaborate hoax by a troll - were apparently unfounded. I hope y'all feel I did fine by the project, I did my best to avoid the phrase "man-humping, cock-sucking, doggy-style loving queer" but otherwise did ok.

Free image appeal

A friendly reminder to consider taking photos while you're out and about at various Dyke marches and Pride parades. Consider donating them to the world at Wikicommons. I'm sooo totally over having to deal with lovely images being deleted and argued about. If they are just free they are then also freely usable worldwide. And no, they don't need photos of your cha-cha or hoo-hoo-dilly.

Chaz Bono

Sonny and Cher's daughter was a famous lesbian and now he's a famous transman, possibly the most famous in the world. This also serves as a friendly reminder that we recently updated Misplaced Pages:WikiProject LGBT studies/Guidelines - it's not perfect but should help inform on those gnip-gnop battles that do seem to drag on, and not in the good way.

R U Popular?

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject LGBT studies/Popular pages is a new handy place to see which LGBT-tagged pages are the most popular in any given month.

Article alerts

As part of the redecorating at our talkpage, the article alerts and keyword search alerts are handily located at the top of the page. Always fascinating to see what's up. All help appreciated on those.

Glambert

Adam Lambert is soooo gay - surprised? Neither is anyone else. Nuff said. David Ogden Stiers was outed but apparently he wasn't terribly in either.

Community Quilt reminder

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject LGBT studies/Quilt - update it and add yourself!

Our own little IRC home

The LGBT studies project does have its own free Internet Relay Chat channel, #wikipedia-en-lgbt , for coordination, collaboration and socializing. This channel is hosted on Freenode and can be accessed in one of two ways: If you already have an IRC client, click the link to the left. If you do not have an IRC client, you'll need to get one installed on your computer first. Once you've done this, then click on the link to the left.

For more general information on IRC and a listing of other useful Misplaced Pages-related channels, see Misplaced Pages:IRC channels.

The project had at one point another channel at #LGBTproject but as the original people associated with the setting up and administration of that channel have seemed to have disappeared, this new channel has been set up. Plus the new channel is inline with required naming conventions for Misplaced Pages related IRC channels. So, feel free to use this channel. Such a channel gives opportunity to discuss the latest happening on articles, the LGBT project itself, latest happening in your life with "wiki-friends" here, etc.. You can say things on there you normally wouldn't here on Misplaced Pages (keeping it civil of course) like talk about the latest hot guy/girl or tell a joke.. you get the point. Anyway, see you there - eventually!

LGBT to-do list (held over from last edition)
  • Give out more barnstars, and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
  • Create a guide to stave off burnout, because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
  • Bring back the monthly collaboration project.
  • Participate in LGBT Peer reviews.
  • Get familiar with the characteristics of Good Articles and get our top priority articles to WP:GA.
  • Keep our project page and open tasks template updated.
  • Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
  • Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and support to your fellow editors.
  • Keep the project talk page informed of problems and discussions we should know about.


“ There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. n both the White House and the Federal agencies -- openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism.
LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.
At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security.
As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.
I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists. - Barack Obama, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, 2009, The White House (June 1, 2009). 		”

Click your heels three times ladies and gents, home is where hot is! -- Banjeboi

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WikiProject Feminism

Hello, Feminism Task Force Member! Please accept this invitation to join a discussion on creating a full-fledged WikiProject Feminism. If you support this idea, please register your support here. All feedback is appreciated! Thanks!

A cup of tea for you!

Hi Phyesalis! I know it's been quite sometime since you've edited. I do hope you'll see this cup of tea! I just wanted you to know that your contributions are valuable to making Misplaced Pages what it is, and I do hope you'll participate with a new edit or article. Thank you for your contributions - past and future! SarahStierch (talk) 01:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Just to let you know -- Missing Wikipedians

You have been mentioned at Misplaced Pages:Missing Wikipedians. XOttawahitech (talk) 20:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride!

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

  • What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
  • When? June 2015
  • How can you help?
    1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
    2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Misplaced Pages articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
    3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Misplaced Pages, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.


Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:21, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2016

As a participant of WikiProject LGBT studies, you are invited to participate in the third annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign, which runs through the month of June. The purpose of the campaign is to create and improve content related to LGBT culture and history. How can you help?

  1. Create or improve LGBT-related Misplaced Pages pages and showcase the results of your work here
  2. Document local LGBT culture and history by taking pictures at pride events and uploading your images to Wikimedia Commons
  3. Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Looking for topics? The Tasks page, which you are welcome to update, offers some ideas and wanted articles.

This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. The group's mission is to develop LGBT-related content across all Wikimedia projects, in all languages. Visit the affiliate's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Misplaced Pages, plain and simple, and all are welcome! If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing! ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:32, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

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