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== Views in Argentina == | |||
== ] == | |||
Discussions leading up the ] are contained in ]. ] (]) 16:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
I travelled extensively in Argentina and the views on Guevara were unanimous; he is rarely mentioned there and is certainly not a source of pride. Many I met described him as a "psychopath" who enjoyed killing people. He apparently told his father that he "enjoyed the smell of cordite and blood" after he had shot someone through the head. | |||
Not sure if this is worth extra exploration. ] (]) 17:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
:It definitely isn't, I for one know plenty of Argentinians that are in awe of Guevara. Hearsay is not worth being mentioned on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 12:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
::Che was a psychopath who enjoyed killing people. He was also a homophobic and racist who hated black people. This is not hearsay. He publicly executed innocent Cubans by gunshot in front of many witnesses as a warning to anyone who tried to oppose their new government. ] (]) 11:55, 25 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
<s>Striking out material from block evader.</s> ] (]) 00:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{ping|Grandpallama}} Although I agree that the heresay is irrelevant to our article, I looked at the IP and saw no evidence of block evasion. Is there a link that shows it? If so, it would be helpful if that is mentioned on the IP's talk page in case that editor continues making edits. --] (]) 00:39, 22 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
::], the editor is unlikely to show up with this particular IP again, as it's not static. That said, it's been pointed out to me that the age of the edit is such that I'm probably causing confusion more than helping (which makes sense); I only noticed today that he'd become active again for a while last year and was clearly overzealous ]. I've reverted my strikethrough. ] (]) 06:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Okay. --] (]) 06:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Che was a mass murderer == | |||
Please add that Che Guevara was a mass murderer in the first sentence of this article. He should be put in the same category as Hitler. the sentence should read as follows: | |||
was an Argentine ] Mass Murderer, physician, author, ] leader, diplomat, and ]. ] (]) 04:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
:When was he convicted of being a mass murderer? ] (]) 05:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
::in Cuba he lined up innocent people against a wall “pared” and executed them without a trial for the public to witness. My Cuban family witnessed these executions and knew people who disappeared. He forced at gunpoint the removal of families from their homes. The only way to enforce socialism is to take away everything the people own by execution and physical violence. No one will willingly give the government their possessions. What I stated are facts. ] (]) 11:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
:::Then it shouldn't be hard for you to provide some reliable sources here. Facts aren't hard to find in reliable sources. ] (]) 12:48, 25 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
::::Lots of sources exist, but they're very easy for you to ignore. ] (]) 01:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::If you have sources, ]. ] (]) 00:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::Alvaro Vargas LLosa, ''The Killing Machine; Che Guevara, from Communist Firebrand to Capitalist Brand" (Independent Insitiute:July 11, 2005, https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=1535) | |||
::::::Guillermina Stutter Schneider. "Che Was a Racist, Homophobe, and Mass Murderer" (Human Progress: December 15, 2017, https://humanprogress.org/the-truth-about-che-guevara-racist-homophobe-and-mass-murderer/) | |||
::::::Troy J. Sacquety, "Che Guevara: A False Idol for Revolutionaries" (U.S Army Special Forces Command History Office: 2008, https://arsof-history.org/articles/v4n4_false_idol_page_1.html#fn:2) | |||
::::::These three sources support the idea that Che was ruthless, brutal, and guilty of more than enough human rights violations to earn multiple in-depth paragraphs for this article. | |||
::::::] (]) 23:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Semantic Error == | |||
<ref></ref>{{Edit semi-protected|Che Guevara|answered=yes}} | |||
Please change "Cause of death Execution by shooting" to | |||
"Cause of death Elimination by shooting" | |||
Che Guevara's capture and immediate execution without a legal trial would be more accurately described as an extrajudicial killing which is considered a form of murder. This differs from a lawful execution which typically involves a formal trial. ] (]) 05:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> I replaced it with ] (per what's covered in the article's body). ] (]) 15:17, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
::Can you also take care of the "Battles/wars" section, where he was labeled to be executed after a conviction. ] (]) 10:21, 17 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Interview with Tucker Carlson - Ex-CIA Agent Felix Rodriguez on Che Guevara death == | |||
Ex-CIA Agent on Capturing Che Guevara, Who Truly Killed JFK, and Election Predictions | |||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwohQJrJeo8&ab_channel=TuckerCarlson | |||
] was executed in 1967 in a remote Bolivian village. One of the last people to speak to him alive was CIA officer ]. Here’s his story. | |||
Felix Rodriguez worked for the CIA until 1976. | |||
] (]) 16:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
:That's not a reliable source. ] (]) 16:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
::It is his own testimony!!! ] (]) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::That's not how ] works. ] (]) 16:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::Edit conflict, "please provide the acronym that supports your logic". LOL. ] (]) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::Specifically see points 1 and 2: | |||
::::{{tq|1. The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim 2. It does not involve claims about third parties;}} ] (]) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::Wow, you know how to make pretty colored text. I am impressed. LOL. Thanks for making my day, ] LOL. ] (]) 17:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
;South Park: Officer Barbrady - There's nothing to see here. | |||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6RWSiR88s&ab_channel=MiamiBadBoyBOSS | |||
] (]) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Lies & propaganda surrounding Che. == | |||
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/che-guevara-executing-women/ | |||
Example number 1: The link listed above where the accusation of him “Killing 2 woman” came out including him being accused of being a mass murderer (which is false, the people executed weren't innocent and were those working with Batista, war criminals etc. | |||
Example number 2: The accusation that he was responsible for the UMAP camps/Imprisonment of homosexuals. | |||
in 1965 Che resigned his position as minister of industries and went to the Congo. He wasn't in Cuba during the operations of the camps and nor was he involved, Castro later took accountability for these camps stating how he failed the LGBT community in Cuba. ] (]) 16:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Category:Stalinism == | |||
Obviously Che was supportive of Stalin at one point, and maybe throughout his life? I'm not an expert. However I don't think this was a "defining characteristic," as laid out in ]. The article mentions Stalin once but doesn't really make clear Che's connection to Stalinism or why the category is there. I'm removing it. ] (]) 13:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 13:03, 31 December 2024
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Views in Argentina
I travelled extensively in Argentina and the views on Guevara were unanimous; he is rarely mentioned there and is certainly not a source of pride. Many I met described him as a "psychopath" who enjoyed killing people. He apparently told his father that he "enjoyed the smell of cordite and blood" after he had shot someone through the head. Not sure if this is worth extra exploration. 86.153.86.158 (talk) 17:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- It definitely isn't, I for one know plenty of Argentinians that are in awe of Guevara. Hearsay is not worth being mentioned on Misplaced Pages. 2A02:1811:C1F:8200:3564:4278:E78B:F860 (talk) 12:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
- Che was a psychopath who enjoyed killing people. He was also a homophobic and racist who hated black people. This is not hearsay. He publicly executed innocent Cubans by gunshot in front of many witnesses as a warning to anyone who tried to oppose their new government. Hectorgavilla (talk) 11:55, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Striking out material from block evader. Grandpallama (talk) 00:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Grandpallama: Although I agree that the heresay is irrelevant to our article, I looked at the IP and saw no evidence of block evasion. Is there a link that shows it? If so, it would be helpful if that is mentioned on the IP's talk page in case that editor continues making edits. --David Tornheim (talk) 00:39, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- David Tornheim, the editor is unlikely to show up with this particular IP again, as it's not static. That said, it's been pointed out to me that the age of the edit is such that I'm probably causing confusion more than helping (which makes sense); I only noticed today that he'd become active again for a while last year and was clearly overzealous in wanting to scrub his unproductive contributions. I've reverted my strikethrough. Grandpallama (talk) 06:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Okay. --David Tornheim (talk) 06:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- David Tornheim, the editor is unlikely to show up with this particular IP again, as it's not static. That said, it's been pointed out to me that the age of the edit is such that I'm probably causing confusion more than helping (which makes sense); I only noticed today that he'd become active again for a while last year and was clearly overzealous in wanting to scrub his unproductive contributions. I've reverted my strikethrough. Grandpallama (talk) 06:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Che was a mass murderer
Please add that Che Guevara was a mass murderer in the first sentence of this article. He should be put in the same category as Hitler. the sentence should read as follows:
was an Argentine Marxist Mass Murderer, physician, author, guerrilla leader, diplomat, and military theorist. Hectorgavilla (talk) 04:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- When was he convicted of being a mass murderer? HiLo48 (talk) 05:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- in Cuba he lined up innocent people against a wall “pared” and executed them without a trial for the public to witness. My Cuban family witnessed these executions and knew people who disappeared. He forced at gunpoint the removal of families from their homes. The only way to enforce socialism is to take away everything the people own by execution and physical violence. No one will willingly give the government their possessions. What I stated are facts. Hectorgavilla (talk) 11:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- Then it shouldn't be hard for you to provide some reliable sources here. Facts aren't hard to find in reliable sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 12:48, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- Lots of sources exist, but they're very easy for you to ignore. 73.100.184.209 (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- If you have sources, WP:PROVEIT. Flounder fillet (talk) 00:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- Alvaro Vargas LLosa, The Killing Machine; Che Guevara, from Communist Firebrand to Capitalist Brand" (Independent Insitiute:July 11, 2005, https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=1535)
- Guillermina Stutter Schneider. "Che Was a Racist, Homophobe, and Mass Murderer" (Human Progress: December 15, 2017, https://humanprogress.org/the-truth-about-che-guevara-racist-homophobe-and-mass-murderer/)
- Troy J. Sacquety, "Che Guevara: A False Idol for Revolutionaries" (U.S Army Special Forces Command History Office: 2008, https://arsof-history.org/articles/v4n4_false_idol_page_1.html#fn:2)
- These three sources support the idea that Che was ruthless, brutal, and guilty of more than enough human rights violations to earn multiple in-depth paragraphs for this article.
- Aldrich.Faithful (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
- If you have sources, WP:PROVEIT. Flounder fillet (talk) 00:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- Lots of sources exist, but they're very easy for you to ignore. 73.100.184.209 (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Then it shouldn't be hard for you to provide some reliable sources here. Facts aren't hard to find in reliable sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 12:48, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- in Cuba he lined up innocent people against a wall “pared” and executed them without a trial for the public to witness. My Cuban family witnessed these executions and knew people who disappeared. He forced at gunpoint the removal of families from their homes. The only way to enforce socialism is to take away everything the people own by execution and physical violence. No one will willingly give the government their possessions. What I stated are facts. Hectorgavilla (talk) 11:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Semantic Error
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "Cause of death Execution by shooting" to "Cause of death Elimination by shooting"
Che Guevara's capture and immediate execution without a legal trial would be more accurately described as an extrajudicial killing which is considered a form of murder. This differs from a lawful execution which typically involves a formal trial. Thirdfemalelead (talk) 05:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Done I replaced it with extrajudicial killing (per what's covered in the article's body). M.Bitton (talk) 15:17, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Can you also take care of the "Battles/wars" section, where he was labeled to be executed after a conviction. LackOfInspiration1 (talk) 10:21, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Interview with Tucker Carlson - Ex-CIA Agent Felix Rodriguez on Che Guevara death
Ex-CIA Agent on Capturing Che Guevara, Who Truly Killed JFK, and Election Predictions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwohQJrJeo8&ab_channel=TuckerCarlson
Che Guevara was executed in 1967 in a remote Bolivian village. One of the last people to speak to him alive was CIA officer Felix Rodriguez (former CIA agent). Here’s his story.
Felix Rodriguez worked for the CIA until 1976.
Ironcurtain2 (talk) 16:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not a reliable source. Simonm223 (talk) 16:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- It is his own testimony!!! Ironcurtain2 (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not how WP:ABOUTSELF works. Simonm223 (talk) 16:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- Edit conflict, "please provide the acronym that supports your logic". LOL. Ironcurtain2 (talk) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- Specifically see points 1 and 2:
1. The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim 2. It does not involve claims about third parties;
Simonm223 (talk) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)- Wow, you know how to make pretty colored text. I am impressed. LOL. Thanks for making my day, User:Simonm223 LOL. Ironcurtain2 (talk) 17:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not how WP:ABOUTSELF works. Simonm223 (talk) 16:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- It is his own testimony!!! Ironcurtain2 (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
- South Park
- Officer Barbrady - There's nothing to see here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6RWSiR88s&ab_channel=MiamiBadBoyBOSS
Ironcurtain2 (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Lies & propaganda surrounding Che.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/che-guevara-executing-women/
Example number 1: The link listed above where the accusation of him “Killing 2 woman” came out including him being accused of being a mass murderer (which is false, the people executed weren't innocent and were those working with Batista, war criminals etc.
Example number 2: The accusation that he was responsible for the UMAP camps/Imprisonment of homosexuals. in 1965 Che resigned his position as minister of industries and went to the Congo. He wasn't in Cuba during the operations of the camps and nor was he involved, Castro later took accountability for these camps stating how he failed the LGBT community in Cuba. Sproogli (talk) 16:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Stalinism
Obviously Che was supportive of Stalin at one point, and maybe throughout his life? I'm not an expert. However I don't think this was a "defining characteristic," as laid out in Misplaced Pages:CATDEF. The article mentions Stalin once but doesn't really make clear Che's connection to Stalinism or why the category is there. I'm removing it. Prezbo (talk) 13:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
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