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Revision as of 14:25, 22 April 2008 editMangojuice (talk | contribs)19,969 edits →ANI fuels drama← Previous edit Latest revision as of 05:30, 23 December 2024 edit undoUntamed1910 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users10,899 editsm Reverted 1 edit by 222.101.152.135 (talk) to last revision by ClueBot IIITags: Twinkle Undo 
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{{talk header|noarchives=yes|WT:AN|WT:ANB}}
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<div style="text-align:center; font-size:150%; line-height:1.3; font-weight:bold;">This is not the page to report problems to administrators, or discuss administrative issues.</div>
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{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="padding:6px;"
This page is for discussion of the ] page (and some of its subpages, including ]).
| rowspan="2" style="text-align:center;" | ]
| style="font-size: 150%; line-height: 1.25em; text-align: center; height: 2em" | '''This is not the page to report problems to administrators,<br/>or discuss administrative issues.'''
|-
| This page is for discussion of the ] page itself.


* Report incidents such as block evasion at ''']'''. * Report incidents such as block evasion at ''']'''.
* Report violations of the ] at ''']'''. * Report violations of the ] at ''']'''.
* Discuss general issues at ''']'''. * Discuss general issues at ''']'''.
* Report posting of personal information by following instructions at ''']'''. * Report posting of personal information by following instructions at ''']'''.
* Request discussions need to be closed at ''']'''.
|}
}}

{{press
{{archive box|
| subject = noticeboard
* ''']'''
| org = '']''
* ]
| date = September 25, 2013
* ]
| author = Andrew Orlowski
* ]
| title = Revolting peasants force Misplaced Pages to cut'n'paste Visual Editor into the bin
* ]
| url = http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/25/wikipedia_peasants_revolt/
* ]
| author2 = ]
* ]
| title2 = Want to Know How to Build a Better Democracy? Ask Misplaced Pages
| org2 = '']''
| url2 = https://www.wired.com/story/want-to-know-how-to-build-a-better-democracy-ask-wikipedia/
| date2 = 7 April 2019
| accessdate2 = 8 April 2019
}}
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== Significant 100+ edits wiped out from WP:AN ==
== NOT the Misplaced Pages complaints department ==

I would suggest putting this note higher on the page. Today, I had to tell three different people that "he called me a name" is not a reason to immediately go to WP:AN asking for a block. It is annoying how many messages here are like that (and really annoying is how much my talk page has become that). Should we start closing the threads to make it clear that this is not the way to get results? -- ] (]) 01:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:We should be directing editors to ] instead, then closing the threads. I gather that's what you had in mind --''']''' (]) 02:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Agreed. -- ] (]) 05:20, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Except that ] is usually either moribund when it comes to answers or an exercise in tarring and feathering users. So I'd go with saying "get a thicker skin" and closing the threads. There may be a nicer way of saying this; alternatively, cruder ways of wording it are not unacceptable. ➨ ''']''' is always ready to dynamically make tea 19:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

== Administrative backlogs ==

The page currently suggests that the noticeboard should not be used to report administrative backlogs: "To report administrative backlogs, add {{tl|adminbacklog}} to the backlogged page."

But I have to wonder ... how many people really check ]? I've seen pages tagged with {{tl|adminbacklog}} remain in the category for weeks and some pages are virtually always tagged as being backlogged. ''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 18:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

:I've always found it useful to report onto the noticeboard itself if it's a very large backlog. ''''']]''''' <small>]</small> 18:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

::Okay, thanks. Looking through some of the archives, I notice that the suggestion not to use WP:AN for backlog notices is ignored on numerous occasions. Ultimately, I suppose that ] applies. ''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 19:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

== ANI fuels drama ==

ANI fuels drama by providing a large crowd to leer and jeer at the daily drama. I think Misplaced Pages would be better off if we got rid of this page entirely, and instead encouraged people to go to a specific venue for solving their problems. ] and ] are two good places for a lot of ANI stuff to go. The advantage of other noticeboards is that the crowd is smaller so there is less incentive for grandstanding, and the people who frequent the boards have consider experience handling specific types of issues. ] <sup>]</sup> 01:07, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:How would you make sure that anyone reads those boards? I tend to report Soccermeko's resurrections there, instead of through sockpuppet channels, simply because if I report it there it gets dealt with in an hour or so, and if I report it other places, I wind up battling the socks for days. I'm sure other users post their issues here for similar reasons.] (]) 01:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::I block large numbers of sock puppets at ]. The ratio of effective work to time-wasting drama is much better at places like ] and ] (where I spent a lot of time before becoming an admin). If people are lost, they can go to ] and get advice how to solve their problem. This board, ], tends to make matters worse not better. ] <sup>]</sup> 01:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Repeat after me: ''AN/I doesn't fuel drama, people fuel drama...'' — ] 02:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
: Drama requires a stage, and a big audience. If we break things up into smaller stages and smaller audiences, there will be less drama and more work. ] <sup>]</sup>
::Quite the contrary; I've seen lots of drama that provides its own stage, and doesn't give a damn about the size of the audience. :) ] <span style="color: #999;">// ] // ] //</span> 18:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

:::] The problem is what causes the drama, and that won't go away if we take away the outlet. The drama will just spill into other places, where it can actually do ''more'' damage. ] actually does a good job limiting drama because it's so high-traffic, so while some issues do create a big fuss, a lot of others get a little attention and then die, as they should. ]]<sup>]</sup> 14:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll freely admit that I, at least, read WP:ANI for daily entertainment, but I do also attempt to make useful contributions to things there that catch my interest. ] (]) 12:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


Surprised to show up this morning to find two of my edits deleted from ], and then found that for multiple editors (including admins) were deleted spanning a block of 16 hours and multiple sections. Seem's like either an oversized-mop was used, or an accident occurred here. ]&thinsp;] 16:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
ANI unfortunately is one of the aspects of Misplaced Pages that has not scaled well. It is likely to only get more chaotic as the community grows, if the current structure is retained. ] (]) 22:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:{{reply|Tiggerjay}} That link is not so useful I'm afraid :) ]'']''] 16:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
::Agreed, although I'm not sure a better way, since it was literally every page history entry for a 16 hour period, and the date filter would almost be useless since it spanned into today. ]&thinsp;] 19:41, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
:@] as per the section above ], Someone on the oversight team has ] a number of revisions. If it was something that had been there for some time then that will have required a lot of revisions to be covered in the suppression. ] (]) 16:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
:: I wish we could ] edits so we didn't have to do this, but ]. ] ] 17:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Destined to fail on two counts I'm afraid: a) it involves actual change, and b) it's a good idea. ]'']''] 17:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: Third count: for huge pages like ANI it's not technically possible with the software as it currently stands. It is technically possible, albeit a total pain, for smaller pages. ] ] 17:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
::I saw that one from a few days ago (and other similar instances) but that spanned a several minutes and less than a dozen edits, this was many hours and over a hundred different edits. It was just astonishing to see so much blown away that it must have been a mistake, but I guess that is the only choice when something egregious isn't suppressed right away. Given that way most ANI discussions occur its unfortunate that a more selective revdel cannot be used since individual edits don't frequently span other conversations. ]&thinsp;] 20:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)


== Editable archives ==
:Any process that uses people will result in drama. If we get rid of the board the drama will just move to somewhere else. ] 22:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yes, probably stirred by you 1 == 2 on IRC. ] (])
:I choose not to be baited, thank you. ] 22:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::Correct. You prefer to do the baiting. ] (]) 13:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:I also choose not to be baited by you either, whoever you are. ] 13:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


It seems that the ANI archive pages (e.g. ]) have section edit links. This is not normal on archive pages: is it something special to ANI, or a mistake somewhere? --] &#x1f339; (]) 19:00, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Having ANI makes it easier for some new users to get attention quickly if they need it. If we make them hunt for the content specific noticeboard that they want, it will probably cause frustration. Frankly, I don't mind the drama here - I tend to ignore it, if it's not a topic I'm particularly interested in. - <font style="font-family: Papyrus, sans-serif"><font color="#775ca8">]</font></font> 22:09, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:Maybe {{tl|Administrators' noticeboard navbox all}} can be taught to emit the flag to inhibit that, iff transcluded onto a "subpage" (or "a subpage containing the string 'archive'")? ] (]) 20:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
::That wasn't too hard. Which means I probably broke something as a side-effect. Trouts of various sizes welcome as appropriate. ] (]) 16:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Well, it's suppressed the edit links, so {{ty}} for that. --] &#x1f339; (]) 21:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)


== Broken code in blue "Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents" box ==
== The massive AN/I page ==


At the bottom of it:
As I've been perusing ANI a lot recently, I've almost immediately started to wonder why it is not setup more like AfD, with every reported incident getting it's own space. I imagine though this may have been discussed a lot in the past. Could anyone point me in the right direction for an old discussion on this topic so I can see editor's thoughts/consensus? Thanks ] | ]•] 18:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:This was tried not too long ago, as I recall, and it was a failure. Problem is that nobody sees the discussions on their watchlists. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I know that for myself, it's much easier to have it centralized on one page. ] <span style="color: #999;">// ] // ] //</span> 18:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Why couldn't people see the discussion's on their watch lists (like we can for AfDs)? I personally have a huge problem with loading up to the bottom of the RfA page. Do you have links to discussion over this? This is mostly a curiousity thing, I'm not really bringing it up for consideration again. ] | ]•] 18:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think it was tried, it was proposed and Coren set up a bot that could operate it. The problem was, indeed, that folks wanted each post on each subject to show up on a watchlist without having to watch subpages individually. ]] 19:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Yes, that's what happened. Ultimately, no consensus to make the change; almost all the opposition was based on this issue. I'll try to dig up a link in the archives to the discussion. --] (]) 19:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::. --] (]) 19:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Ahhhh, thank you much. If I believed in the barnstar nonsense I would probably give you one. ] | ]•] 19:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I accept, with thanks, my invisible pink barnstar. --] (]) 19:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I'm exceedingly curious why it would be pink....] | ] | ] 19:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, it kind of spoils the joke, but see: ]. --] (]) 19:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Yep. Spoiled the joke. I hate myself when someone has to explain a joke to me. Lo siento. ] | ] | ] 19:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
NO no a millions times no. Having them on subpages would blow out my watchlist so fast its not funny. It would also reduce notification of new topics you might be interested in (because they are only seen in the watchlist of the main page once, after which you have to have the subpage on the watchlist). ]] 03:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
: We could arrange parallel processing. Editors with usernames A-L would post at ] and M - Z could start threads at ]. The advantage of this approach is that it is scalable. We can have as many noticeboards as we need to keep the page length within reason. ] <sup>]</sup> 04:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::Or, sections larger than 30KB (or similar) could be branched into a /subpage. ] (]) 04:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
*Just an idea I have had; any ANI section still active after 36-48 hours after first post is automatically collapsed. Most, if not all, of the parties active in the discussion will be aware of the details - anyone else will have to go by the general heading (and digest in the collapse field?) All recent stuff will be in full view of the passing audience. I suggest a 36-48 hours, as to allow all the different time zones and editing times of day for editors to get maximum exposure. ] (]) 12:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


<small>Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are ] automatically by ]. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the ] subpage.</small>
**Collapsing doesn't help the "loadability" of the page, just the readability. Here's a variation on the theme. 36 hours after they've been initiated, all open threads are collapsed AND moved onto ] by a bot. This page is then transcluded onto ANI - keeping everything together. That will reduced the byte size when people are posting onto ANI. And that way, watchlists will still light up for new posts in threads for the first 36 hours, if you want longer than than, simply place ] on your watchlist too.--]<sup>g</sup> 12:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:**That sounds reasonable, although I wouldn't see the need for collapsing if it makes no difference to loading - there will be the menu at the top of the page top for navigation. If you want to work up a wording for a proposal at the appropriate venue I will certainly second the suggestion. I think the time limit needs to be agreed, but certainly no longer than 48 and no less than 24 should be the area. ] (]) 13:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:**(You can tell that I am not the most technically adept...) Will the transcluded older topics still be logged in the page menu, or will the menu simply list the transcluded page, or would it be similar to the way the RfA mainpage lists the transcluded RfA pages? ] (]) 13:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


|- | class="plainlinks" style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background: var(--color-inverted, #fff); text-align: center; font-size: 125%;" | ''''''


Pretty sure the "|- | class= " etc. bit isn't supposed to be there. -] <sub>]</sub> 04:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
== Problems with a group of new editors - making substantial changes, deleting verified passages and inserting instead quotes from anonymous websites ==
:{{ping|The Bushranger}} I think I fixed it. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)


== "]" listed at ] ==
A group of new editors who seem to have found an agreement outside of WP (see talk page of that atricle) made big efforts to change the article of ] substentially without any discussion. Any request for discussion on the changes were neglected. Moreover verified passages were deleted and balanced views deleted and insertion from a anonymous website made. I like to ask you for your help by checking the subject, revert or a temporarily block of the article. I have sent all new editors welcomes and ask for collaboration but as you can see from the talk page they just ignore. Thank you very much, --] (]) 20:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
]
:I've moved your request to ] where it is supposed to be - this page is for discussing ] rather than an issue itself. It is at ]. <span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt;">] <span style="font-size: 7pt;">] ]</span></span> 02:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span>&#32;to the page ] has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 19#Misplaced Pages:REPORT}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 10:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 05:30, 23 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Administrators' noticeboard page.
Shortcuts
Section sizes in Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard
Section size for Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard (52 sections)
Section name Byte
count		 Section
total
(Top) 961 961
Open tasks 230 230
Sander.v.Ginkel unblock request 16,814 16,814
Several admins just standing by interrogating a user who was the subject of an obviously bad block. 21,474 21,474
Tripleye 926 926
History 869 869
Technology 649 649
Impact 503 503
References 31,009 99,178
Broader discussion on reporting users and blocking/unblocking 31,318 68,169
Examples: HJ Mitchell 7,461 7,461
Examples: 331dot 29,390 29,390
Request for closure review 11,370 11,370
"Early" closes at AfD 19,601 19,601
Vanished users holding user rights as of 25-12-2024 4,391 4,391
Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ranged weapon 1,387 1,387
Complaint Against Disruptive Editing and Personal Attacks by User:Cerium4B 664 3,987
Summary 754 754
Details of the Issue 30 1,729
1. Disruptive Editing and Personal Attacks 544 544
2. Dismissal of Concerns Regarding Source Reliability 794 794
3. Inappropriate Behavior and Disruptive Editing 361 361
Request for Administrator Action 840 840
Unblock request for markup removed; cannot link (help) 2,122 2,122
Unproductive discussion probably needs closing 951 951
Page's name blacklisted 5,067 5,067
History/-ies of Kambala Srinivas Rao 1,264 1,264
Bot block request 8,274 8,274
Redaction needed for non-free file 1,485 1,485
Please remove my PCR flag 647 647
philip ingram vs. phillip ingram 906 906
ISA99 Committee 809 809
User BubbleBabis 1,979 1,979
User:Pizermmmmmmm76486 and USERNOCAT 2,574 2,574
User:Redrose64 conduct at VPT 1,919 1,919
Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse - draft article about a future film seems to be a long-term draft 10,104 10,104
Request for assistance with semi-protected page edit 654 654
Jaspreetsingh6 unban request 4,440 4,440
WP:IDONTLIKEWHOCREATEDIT 757 757
Conflict of interest - Veeranjaneyulu Viharayatra Article 683 683
Request for Deletion of My User and Talk Pages Due to Personal Attacks and Mismanagement 1,073 1,073
Request for Complete Deletion of My User and Talk Pages 4,062 4,062
Unclear policy 5,577 5,577
Continued subject of a sockpuppet investigation, and request for neutral third party intervention 5,679 5,679
Humans sharing accounts with machines 3,466 3,466
43.249.196.179 (again) 5,948 5,948
Personal attacks by User:Remsense 3,628 3,628
Happy New Year! 1,353 1,353
Change to the CheckUser team, January 2025 551 551
RM completion request 624 624
:File:L'Arrivée d'un train en gare de La Ciotat, Complete.webm 612 612
an obstacle to translation 678 678
Total 260,226 260,226
Section sizes in Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
Section size for Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (31 sections)
Section name Byte
count		 Section
total
(Top) 711 711
Disruptive editing and WP:TALKNO by User:AnonMoos 17,475 32,119
None of this matters 9,675 9,675
A Slightly Different Analysis 4,556 4,556
Can someone PLEASE put this ridiculous thread out of its misery? 413 413
User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content #2 30,717 30,717
Wikihounding by Awshort 12,130 12,130
Disruptive editing and pushing of his own "point of view" by User:Michael Bednarek 20,846 20,846
Disruptive reverts and insults by Andmf12 5,155 5,155
User:AstroGuy0 2,575 2,575
Independent eyes needed on Triptane 5,466 5,466
Personal attack by Thebrooklynphenom 3,160 3,160
Socking 1,932 1,932
Wendy2024 making legal threats 3,201 3,201
Cross-wiki harassment and transphobia from User:DarwIn 40,341 105,748
Proposed Community Sanctions 48,620 48,620
Skyshifter taking matters from another Misplaced Pages to seek revenge. 16,787 16,787
Admitting sockpuppetry 878 878
Hounding and ownership behavior by Indepthstory 12,008 12,008
3R / Edit Warring Sharnadd 15,267 15,267
Lavipao, POV pushing and personal attacks yet again 3,522 3,522
User:Sphinx2512 making Legal Threats 488 488
Armegon 14,042 14,042
user:Uwappa: refusal to engage with WP:BRD process, unfounded allegation of WP:NPA violation, unfounded vandalism allegation 8,576 8,576
User Douglas1998A 15,622 17,321
User:MafiaBoy123 making legal threats 1,699 1,699
Is this MidAtlanticBaby? 1,179 1,179
Incivility in Jeju Air 10,046 10,046
Recently blocked user asking to "escalate the matter" 1,249 1,249
Editorialising 4,188 4,188
John40332 reported by CurryTime7-24 2,041 2,041
Total 314,565 314,565
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Significant 100+ edits wiped out from WP:AN

Surprised to show up this morning to find two of my edits deleted from WP:AN, and then found that over 100 edits for multiple editors (including admins) were deleted spanning a block of 16 hours and multiple sections. Seem's like either an oversized-mop was used, or an accident occurred here. TiggerJay (talk) 16:04, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tiggerjay: That link is not so useful I'm afraid  :) SerialNumber54129 16:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Agreed, although I'm not sure a better way, since it was literally every page history entry for a 16 hour period, and the date filter would almost be useless since it spanned into today. TiggerJay (talk) 19:41, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
@Tiggerjay as per the section above #Edit summaries wiped out, Someone on the oversight team has suppressed a number of revisions. If it was something that had been there for some time then that will have required a lot of revisions to be covered in the suppression. Nthep (talk) 16:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I wish we could rebase edits so we didn't have to do this, but nobody seems to agree with me. * Pppery * it has begun... 17:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Destined to fail on two counts I'm afraid: a) it involves actual change, and b) it's a good idea. SerialNumber54129 17:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Third count: for huge pages like ANI it's not technically possible with the software as it currently stands. It is technically possible, albeit a total pain, for smaller pages. * Pppery * it has begun... 17:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I saw that one from a few days ago (and other similar instances) but that spanned a several minutes and less than a dozen edits, this was many hours and over a hundred different edits. It was just astonishing to see so much blown away that it must have been a mistake, but I guess that is the only choice when something egregious isn't suppressed right away. Given that way most ANI discussions occur its unfortunate that a more selective revdel cannot be used since individual edits don't frequently span other conversations. TiggerJay (talk) 20:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Editable archives

It seems that the ANI archive pages (e.g. Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1173) have section edit links. This is not normal on archive pages: is it something special to ANI, or a mistake somewhere? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:00, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe {{Administrators' noticeboard navbox all}} can be taught to emit the flag to inhibit that, iff transcluded onto a "subpage" (or "a subpage containing the string 'archive'")? DMacks (talk) 20:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
That wasn't too hard. Which means I probably broke something as a side-effect. Trouts of various sizes welcome as appropriate. DMacks (talk) 16:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Well, it's suppressed the edit links, so Thank you for that. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Broken code in blue "Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents" box

At the bottom of it:

Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage.

|- | class="plainlinks" style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background: var(--color-inverted, #fff); text-align: center; font-size: 125%;" | Start a new discussion

Pretty sure the "|- | class= " etc. bit isn't supposed to be there. -The Bushranger One ping only 04:51, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@The Bushranger: I think I fixed it. Jip Orlando (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

"Misplaced Pages:REPORT" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Misplaced Pages:REPORT to the page Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages only reports what the sources say has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 19 § Misplaced Pages:REPORT until a consensus is reached. 67.209.129.48 (talk) 10:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Category: