| Revision as of 03:54, 22 August 2005 editLulu of the Lotus-Eaters (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users21,790 edits Mistatement of Florida law (cf. Miller) in lead.← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 11:05, 1 August 2020 edit undoAndrybak (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Template editors81,036 edits new key for Category:Misplaced Pages WikiProjects: "encyclopedic merit" using HotCat | ||
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| {{short description|Wikimedia subject-area collaboration}} | |||
| <!-- Please do not remove or change this VfD message until the issue is settled --> | |||
| {{WikiProject status|defunct}} | |||
| <div class="boilerplate metadata" id="vfd" style="margin: 0 5%; padding: 0 7px 7px 7px; background: #EDF1F1; border: 1px solid #999999; text-align: left; font-size:95%;"> | |||
| :''WPEM can also stand for ] | |||
| '''This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Misplaced Pages's ]]'''<br /> | |||
| '''Wikiproject Wikipedians for encyclopedic merit''' was started on ], 2005 to coordinate and promote standards of encyclopedic merit for inclusion on Misplaced Pages. This project is intended to coordinate efforts to bring articles to appropriate standards of quality control, as defined by Misplaced Pages policy and Misplaced Pages guidelines, to ensure Misplaced Pages continues to be regarded as the finest source of web based reference material available. See also ]. | |||
| Please vote on and discuss the matter. See ''']''' on the Votes for Deletion page.<br /> | |||
| You are welcome to edit this article, but please do not blank, merge, or move this article, or remove this notice while the discussion is in progress. For more information, read the ].</div>] | |||
| <!-- End of VfD message, feel free to edit beyond this point --> | |||
| One aspect of encyclopedic merit relates to sexually explicit imagery and language. Specifically if some item of Misplaced Pages content appeals to only prurient interest as opposed to having encyclopedic value, it is generally preferred to substitute content that has encyclopedic value. The ] is illustrative in defining a work as obscene, in part, if it contains "patently offensive and taken as a whole lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" (SLAPS). A quasi-''Miller'' SLAPS test is likely to closely match Misplaced Pages's meaning of "encyclopedic value." | |||
| {{accuracy}} | |||
| However, it should be understood that the purpose of this project has nothing to do with censorship. It is merely an attempt to help Misplaced Pages establish a level or baseline of merit and what constitutes encyclopedic merit. A review of this statement by Jimbo Wales helps us to establish what that baseline should be: | |||
| '''Wikiproject Wikipedians for Decency''' was started on ], 2005 to coordinate and promote standards of decency on Misplaced Pages. This project is intended to coordinate efforts to bring articles to appropriate standards of decency, and to help find alternatives for inappropriate content as defined by Misplaced Pages policy, and Misplaced Pages guidelines. | |||
| {{in5}}"We don't show full-blown mainstream pornography on the front page of wikipedia as a matter of editorial taste and judgment." | |||
| Additionally since relevant sections of Florida Law have been located, standards of decency should be based on existing law in addition to Misplaced Pages policy and guidelines as the Misplaced Pages servers are hosted in Florida, and Florida law is applicable. | |||
| Anyone who is interested in contributing, please sign up below and post any ideas and suggestions on the ] page. Also, feel free to edit this page and add any articles that need serious work or that you feel require attention below in the '''Open Tasks''' sections. |
Anyone who is interested in contributing, please sign up below and post any ideas and suggestions on the ] page. Also, feel free to edit this page and add any articles that need serious work or that you feel require attention below in the '''Open Tasks''' sections. | ||
| This project has been renamed from a contentious initial name (Wikipedians for decency). Members who have joined, but made ironic comments indicating their distaste for a project under the old title may wish to revise the descriptions accompanying their listing. Likewise, editors who have refrained from joining because of the prior title and mission statement may wish to reevaluate whether this WikiProject is of interest to them. | |||
| ==Parentage== | |||
| This Wikiproject has no parents. | |||
| == |
==Other WikiProjects relating to the topic== | ||
| *] aims to stop censorship on Misplaced Pages. | |||
| No descendant WikiProjects have been defined as of yet. | |||
| As of ],], ] is encouraging people to "Express your opinion about ] at ]." ]\<sup>]</sup> 20:13, ] ] (UTC) | |||
| ==Members== | ==Members== | ||
| Moved to ]. | |||
| *<S>] 22:06, 14 August 2005 (UTC)</S> - emeritus, no longer affiliated. | |||
| *] 05:15, August 16, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| *] 06:54, August 16, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| *] 12:00, 16 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| *] 18:31, 16 August 2005 (UTC) (watching and helping as appropriate/available) | |||
| *] 06:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC) - I am highly interested in developing a standard which says there shall be no new standards or censorship imposed on Misplaced Pages, as the entire concept of "decency" is POV on its face. I shall be glad to assist reaching such a goal. | |||
| *] 06:48, August 17, 2005 (UTC) - I would like to see a standard which requires an obscene image on every page. | |||
| *] 07:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC) - as an observer to any attempt to impose arbitrary standards of 'obscenity' and 'decency' on Misplaced Pages in opposition to ]. | |||
| *] 17:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC) - You've convinced me! I'm in!. | |||
| *]. I think the best way I can contribute is by pretending to be a lawyer and spreading ] about Misplaced Pages being shut down by various government organizations. | |||
| *] 22:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC). I'm interested in helping us stay within the law. I'm also interested in making this the best encyclopedia possible for the largest possible number of people. That will require compromises and consensus-building about what is appropriate for an individual situation, and not a blind knee-jerk reaction like "all nudity is bad" or "don't ever let the prudes remove any nudity". | |||
| *] - ] 08:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC) Let's remove all pictures of people from Misplaced Pages! | |||
| *] 11:41, 18 August 2005 (UTC)Can never have enough decency. | |||
| *] 15:51, 18 August 2005 (UTC) There is nothing less decent than censorship, and I will make it my goal to make sure this project opposes all censorship. | |||
| * ] 17:37, 2005 August 18 (UTC) Let's rename this project, however, to ]. | |||
| * ] (]) Why not I'll join. | |||
| It should be noted that this WikiProject is likely to change significantly within 24-48 hours and those that register above in an attempt to mock or insult the purpose of the project do so at risk to their reputation and in violation of ].--] 11:44, August 18, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| There is no consensus among the project members for any change to the project. While joining to mock or insult the purpose of the project would be ], users should feel free to join the project based on what it currently says, and are certainly allowed input as to the goals and methods of the project. ] 20:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ==Notice Board== | |||
| This notice board is intended to inform members of the project of votes or other current Misplaced Pages events which warrant their attention with regards to this project. Please do not list articles in need of attention here, but rather votes for deletion, votes for policy change or other current and ongoing events which warrant the immediate attention of the member base of this WikiProject. | |||
| Please characterize each notice as either:<font color="red">SEVERE</font>, <font color="orange">MODERATE</font>, or <font color="blue">MINOR</font> to help aid your fellow WikiProject members to determine the state of the notice. | |||
| *<font color="red">SEVERE</font> - A critical vote over possibly objectionable content. Often these should be cases where it looks like the vote may be towards keeping an image which clearly violates Misplaced Pages Policy or the State Law of Florida. | |||
| *<font color="orange">MODERATE</font> - Votes which while not critical involve material that is possibly objectionable and appears to violate Misplaced Pages Policy or the State Law of Florida. | |||
| *<font color="blue">MINOR</font> - Questionable whether the content is a violation of Misplaced Pages policy, or for votes where the current consensus seems to be for maintaining Misplaced Pages standards for Images and articles. | |||
| Please remove notices when votes are closed, or the event is no longer current. Each Sunday, all notices for the week should be consolidated into a single subcategory labeled: '''Week of:<DAY> <MONTH> - <DAY> <MONTH>''', listing the date of the Monday and Sunday of the week as the range. | |||
| ===16 August 2005=== | |||
| *<font color="red">SEVERE</font> Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion -> August 15th -> ] | |||
| *: - The is highly unencyclopedic and overtly depicts a sexual act. It is made obsolete by the in the ]. | |||
| *:Suggested action - vote your conscience as to whether the image should be deleted or kept. | |||
| *:Status of the vote as of 07:22, 16 August 2005 (UTC): '''Delete''': 7, '''Keep''': 15. | |||
| *<font color="orange">MODERATE</font> Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion -> August 10th -> ] | |||
| *: - The is highly unencyclopedic and overtly depicts a sexual act. It is made obsolete by this . | |||
| *:Suggested action - vote your conscience as to whether the image should be deleted or kept. | |||
| *:Status: No votes, but votes may be forth coming as it is cited in the the above mentioned SEVERE notice's discussion. | |||
| *<font color="orange">MODERATE</font> Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion -> August 10th -> ] | |||
| *: - The is highly unencyclopedic and overtly depicts a sexual act. It is made obsolete by this . | |||
| *:Suggested action - vote your conscience as to whether the image should be deleted or kept. | |||
| *:Status: No votes, but votes may be forth coming as it is cited in the the above mentioned SEVERE notice's discussion. | |||
| *<font color="blue">MINOR</font> Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion -> August 10th -> ] | |||
| *: - The is highly unencyclopedic and is needlessly sexual. | |||
| *:Suggested action - vote your conscience as to whether the image should be deleted or kept. | |||
| *:Status: No votes, orphaned image, was deleted. | |||
| ==Open Tasks== | ==Open Tasks== | ||
| ===Working Standard for Obscenity and Decency in Images=== | |||
| *] - a place in the WikiProject namespace for a working standard on decency. | |||
| ===Develop standards and factors for obscenity=== | |||
| The standards for obscenity depend on the community. In this case, it is the Wiki community. We should develop factors for consideration specific to the Wiki community in determining whether an image or an article is obscene. | |||
| *Base such standards on pre-existing Misplaced Pages suggestion and policy, or statements by Misplaced Pages founders such as Jimbo. | |||
| === Working standard for encyclopedic merit of images === | |||
| Some discussions on the issue: | |||
| *] - a place in the WikiProject namespace for a working standard on the encyclopedic merit of images. | |||
| * | |||
| *Develop proposals for Misplaced Pages style guidelines about when images that might be offensive or disturbing to some readers should be included by indirect reference rather than within the main flow of an article (or otherwise masked). It may be appropriate for some articles discussing sexually explicit, violent, or otherwise potentially uncomfortable content to contain links along the lines of "Click for an image of X" rather than directly inline versions of those images. | |||
| * | |||
| * - Jimbo removes an image commenting: | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| ''This image is completely unacceptable for wikipedia -- I don't even consider this borderline'' | |||
| </blockquote> | |||
| :*Why is it unacceptable? We need to get a statement from Jimbo. | |||
| :**I have . I'll report more when I hear back. ] 08:08, 16 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * | |||
| **Under Florida Title XLVI Chapter 847 Section 011, it is a third degree felony to distribute photographs of sexual acts in such a way that they are available to minors. Without an age check, such photos are a felony, and could cause Misplaced Pages to be shut down. | |||
| ::: This is not correct. The material must be more than just "photographs of sexual acts", it must be "obscene". The definition of obscenity used considers the purpose of the image - if it's there for sexual gratification it's obscene, if it's to educate, explain or inform it's not. Images in the first category are removed from wikipedia anyway as superfluous; if not, they clearly have a useful role in an encyclopedia and hence fall into the latter division. ] 16:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| === Suggest constructive ways to modify the statement of policy === | |||
| ::::Actually, the Florida law only makes exceptions for artistic, literary, political and scientific purposes, not necessarily just because a picture is intended to "educate, explain or inform" (unless I missed that part). - ] 16:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Such exceptions must be read into the law under the U.S. Supreme Court's Miller decision. If they are not, the law is unconstitutional. ] ] 17:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Whoops. Excuse my ignorance, I'm ]. - ] 17:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * Obscenity Regulation Under U.S. Federal Law | |||
| **Pursuant to recent changes to ] governing enforcement of ], the Misplaced Pages Foundation would, as a secondary producer of 'visual depictions of actual sexually explicit conduct' (engaging in interstate commerce) be required to keep documentation proving that the 'performer' was above 18 years of age at the time of the 'performance', including photocopies of identification card, and make them available to Federal law enforcement on request. There would also need to be a boilerplate ] notice telling where these records are kept on any page where the image was displayed, although that could be done with a template. I think that the documentation and ID storage and presentment requirement is a problem for Misplaced Pages, unless the Foundation thinks it's worth it. | |||
| :::I'm reposting here some edited information I placed on the latest IFD for Autofellatio.jpg. I'm no lawyer, but I think this needs to be addressed. I'm also not a prude, I just think this may place the Misplaced Pages Project in peril if not addressed. Someone correct me if I am wrong. -] 23:53, August 19, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::::'''''A secondary producer is defined as''' any person who produces, assembles, manufactures, '''publishes''', duplicates, reproduces, or reissues a book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, or other matter intended '''for commercial distribution''' that contains a visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct.'' | |||
| ::::While Misplaced Pages does publish (electronically), I don't think it qualifies as a commercial distrbiution (IANAL). Also, according to the article, there are some possible exceptions. That might be worth checking out. --] | a/k/a マイケル | ]/] 00:05, 20 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ===Suggest constructive ways to modify the statement of policy=== | |||
| Current policies: | Current policies: | ||
| *] | *] | ||
| *] | *] | ||
| Guidelines (not policy): | |||
| *] | *] | ||
| *Undefined "no nudity policy" but that does not mean it must be G-rated | *Undefined "no nudity policy" but that does not mean it must be G-rated | ||
| **The current undefined "no nudity policy" is more on the lines of "no pornography" policy, the difference being that nudity could be found in an art museum, pornography could not. | **The current undefined "no nudity policy" is more on the lines of "no pornography" policy, the difference being that nudity could be found in an art museum, pornography could not. | ||
| ===Consider Possible Application of PICS=== | |||
| ===Responses to those who want no standard or oppose deletion of obscenity=== | |||
| The mechanism designed to support 'content labelling' on the Web is ]. This is feasible from a technical point of view, PICS is supported in IE and other browsers and is technically viable. Implementation in Misplaced Pages might require some code updates but this could probably be made painless by creating a special type of category linked to a PICS header. | |||
| Deployment of PICS would in a good faith world allow for labelling of potentially disturbing content in such a manner that would make it easier for Misplaced Pages to be used in schools. It would also allow for automated detection of certain types of vandalism, an attempt to add a pornographic image to a random article could be flagged. | |||
| The problem with PICS is that it is likely to be abused. PICS is a censorship scheme (no matter what the promoters claimed). I think it is reasonable to control content that might be used in a classroom. I don't think it is reasonable, sensible or even desirable to attempt to control what teenagers view at home. Furthermore, the tagging of images would likely be seen as POV and warred over for many borderline cases. | |||
| === Analyze legal liabilities Misplaced Pages may be exposed to === | |||
| In the USA material with "serious literary, artistic or scientific purpose" is generally free of exposure to obscenity prosecution. Recent legislation in the USA has reintroduced the concept of "indecent" content or content "harmful to minors". While Misplaced Pages is not (and should not be) created or maintained to meet the latest laws of some particular jurisdiction, it is hosted on United States soil, and we would like to understand the areas where legal restrictions and encyclopedic merit intersect. | |||
| ==== Develop understanding of "blue law" exposure ==== | |||
| *Statement: If Wiki cannot conform to all worldwide communities (and it can't), then it should not conform to any of them | |||
| * Find actual legal opinion about any obscenity/decency prosecution that Misplaced Pages might plausibly face due to the physical location of its servers (in Florida). | |||
| :*Responses: | |||
| ** According to ], a Florida attorney, Misplaced Pages is not threatened by Florida laws. | |||
| :*You would never apply that to a person's behaviour. It would be an implicit endoresemnt of anarchy. Misplaced Pages is it's own community and is allowed to set its own rules. It already does so in many areas of behaviour. Why not in decency also? ] 17:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * Determine '''where''' Misplaced Pages is, in fact, hosted from a legal perpective. Expanded co-hosting by Google, Yahoo, or by mirror sites in various places may affect judicability and standing in case of potential suit against Misplaced Pages. | |||
| *Statement: There is no concern that Misplaced Pages could become a porn site; there are no plans to turn Misplaced Pages into anything other than an encyclopedia | |||
| * Determine whether a change in location of physical servers would avoid legal liabilities, should such be determined to exist with current hosting. | |||
| :*Responses: | |||
| *Statement: You believe that these images should not be shown on Misplaced Pages because you think they're 'obscene'. That implies a moral judgement, and is therefore directly in opposition to ], the founding principle of Misplaced Pages | |||
| :*Responses: | |||
| :*To state that there should be no moral judgements is itself a POV. Is it also POV to say ''No personal attacks''? Or ''no vanity pages''? ] 17:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ====Standardizations for citable references==== | |||
| ===Articles to be Addressed=== | |||
| *References utilized should be from retrievable sources, not from defunct and or no longer published sources which make cross referencing almost impossible. | |||
| Feel free to add any articles that need to be addressed or improved to this list. | |||
| *Exercise quality control to ensure referencing is from reliable sources; where necessary, note the established consensus on the reliability of questionable sources. | |||
| When adding a page, place '''<nowiki>{{DecencyWikiProject}}</nowiki>''' on the article's '''talk''' page. | |||
| *Refrain from utilization of tabloid media without further support from mainstream sources, unless specifically discussing tabloid coverage of the subject (e.g., noting how a particular celebrity is covered in tabloids; a discussion of ] is impossible without reference to ]). | |||
| ==== Related discussions ==== | |||
| ] | |||
| * | |||
| * | |||
| * | |||
| ] | |||
| :: I'd like to suggest that the wording in that banner be altered slightly. The kind of article you propose placing it on is not really "part of" the decency project. The meaning is something more like "is currently being investigated by", although I don't think those words are quite appropriate as they sound slightly sinister and also suggest a certain authority that is not actually present. Something with that meaning but which sounds better is needed. ] 20:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :Please note that it says ''talk'' page above, I've bolded it for emphasis. I've noticed at least one user inappropriately adding the template to '''article''' pages, see . Please don't do that. ] | ] 11:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::Tag is up for deletion vote at Tfd and will not survive...will delete this tag in a day or two.--] 12:13, August 18, 2005 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 11:05, 1 August 2020
Wikimedia subject-area collaboration | This WikiProject is defunct. Consider looking for related projects for help or ask at the Teahouse. If you feel this project may be worth reviving, please discuss with related projects first. Feel free to change this tag if the parameters were changed in error. |
- WPEM can also stand for Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Electronic music
Wikiproject Wikipedians for encyclopedic merit was started on August 15, 2005 to coordinate and promote standards of encyclopedic merit for inclusion on Misplaced Pages. This project is intended to coordinate efforts to bring articles to appropriate standards of quality control, as defined by Misplaced Pages policy and Misplaced Pages guidelines, to ensure Misplaced Pages continues to be regarded as the finest source of web based reference material available. See also Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages as an academic source.
One aspect of encyclopedic merit relates to sexually explicit imagery and language. Specifically if some item of Misplaced Pages content appeals to only prurient interest as opposed to having encyclopedic value, it is generally preferred to substitute content that has encyclopedic value. The Miller test is illustrative in defining a work as obscene, in part, if it contains "patently offensive and taken as a whole lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" (SLAPS). A quasi-Miller SLAPS test is likely to closely match Misplaced Pages's meaning of "encyclopedic value."
However, it should be understood that the purpose of this project has nothing to do with censorship. It is merely an attempt to help Misplaced Pages establish a level or baseline of merit and what constitutes encyclopedic merit. A review of this statement by Jimbo Wales helps us to establish what that baseline should be:
"We don't show full-blown mainstream pornography on the front page of wikipedia as a matter of editorial taste and judgment."
Anyone who is interested in contributing, please sign up below and post any ideas and suggestions on the Talk page. Also, feel free to edit this page and add any articles that need serious work or that you feel require attention below in the Open Tasks sections.
This project has been renamed from a contentious initial name (Wikipedians for decency). Members who have joined, but made ironic comments indicating their distaste for a project under the old title may wish to revise the descriptions accompanying their listing. Likewise, editors who have refrained from joining because of the prior title and mission statement may wish to reevaluate whether this WikiProject is of interest to them.
Other WikiProjects relating to the topic
- Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Wikipedians against Censorship aims to stop censorship on Misplaced Pages.
As of March 5,2005, Gerard Foley is encouraging people to "Express your opinion about Misplaced Pages:Censorship at Wikipedia_talk:Censorship#Poll." Johntex\ 20:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Members
Moved to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Wikipedians for encyclopedic merit/Members.
Open Tasks
Working standard for encyclopedic merit of images
- Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Wikipedians for encyclopedic merit/Working standard for encyclopedic merit of images - a place in the WikiProject namespace for a working standard on the encyclopedic merit of images.
- Develop proposals for Misplaced Pages style guidelines about when images that might be offensive or disturbing to some readers should be included by indirect reference rather than within the main flow of an article (or otherwise masked). It may be appropriate for some articles discussing sexually explicit, violent, or otherwise potentially uncomfortable content to contain links along the lines of "Click for an image of X" rather than directly inline versions of those images.
Suggest constructive ways to modify the statement of policy
Current policies:
Guidelines (not policy):
- Misplaced Pages:Profanity
- Undefined "no nudity policy" but that does not mean it must be G-rated
- The current undefined "no nudity policy" is more on the lines of "no pornography" policy, the difference being that nudity could be found in an art museum, pornography could not.
Consider Possible Application of PICS
The mechanism designed to support 'content labelling' on the Web is PICS. This is feasible from a technical point of view, PICS is supported in IE and other browsers and is technically viable. Implementation in Misplaced Pages might require some code updates but this could probably be made painless by creating a special type of category linked to a PICS header.
Deployment of PICS would in a good faith world allow for labelling of potentially disturbing content in such a manner that would make it easier for Misplaced Pages to be used in schools. It would also allow for automated detection of certain types of vandalism, an attempt to add a pornographic image to a random article could be flagged.
The problem with PICS is that it is likely to be abused. PICS is a censorship scheme (no matter what the promoters claimed). I think it is reasonable to control content that might be used in a classroom. I don't think it is reasonable, sensible or even desirable to attempt to control what teenagers view at home. Furthermore, the tagging of images would likely be seen as POV and warred over for many borderline cases.
Analyze legal liabilities Misplaced Pages may be exposed to
In the USA material with "serious literary, artistic or scientific purpose" is generally free of exposure to obscenity prosecution. Recent legislation in the USA has reintroduced the concept of "indecent" content or content "harmful to minors". While Misplaced Pages is not (and should not be) created or maintained to meet the latest laws of some particular jurisdiction, it is hosted on United States soil, and we would like to understand the areas where legal restrictions and encyclopedic merit intersect.
Develop understanding of "blue law" exposure
- Find actual legal opinion about any obscenity/decency prosecution that Misplaced Pages might plausibly face due to the physical location of its servers (in Florida).
- According to BD2412, a Florida attorney, Misplaced Pages is not threatened by Florida laws.
- Determine where Misplaced Pages is, in fact, hosted from a legal perpective. Expanded co-hosting by Google, Yahoo, or by mirror sites in various places may affect judicability and standing in case of potential suit against Misplaced Pages.
- Determine whether a change in location of physical servers would avoid legal liabilities, should such be determined to exist with current hosting.
Standardizations for citable references
- References utilized should be from retrievable sources, not from defunct and or no longer published sources which make cross referencing almost impossible.
- Exercise quality control to ensure referencing is from reliable sources; where necessary, note the established consensus on the reliability of questionable sources.
- Refrain from utilization of tabloid media without further support from mainstream sources, unless specifically discussing tabloid coverage of the subject (e.g., noting how a particular celebrity is covered in tabloids; a discussion of Bat Boy is impossible without reference to Weekly World News).