Misplaced Pages

Talk:Principle of double effect: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 21:29, 27 August 2005 editFamekeeper (talk | contribs)778 edits →Proceeding Analysis of the Principle of Double Effect← Previous edit Latest revision as of 11:38, 8 February 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,437,888 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}} and vital articles: 1 WikiProject template. Create {{WPBS}}. Keep majority rating "C" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 1 same rating as {{WPBS}} in {{Philosophy}}.Tag: Talk banner shell conversion 
(62 intermediate revisions by 40 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|
Should be referred to as "Principle" not "Doctrine".
{{WikiProject Philosophy|importance=mid|ethics=yes}}
}}
{{Merged-from|Principle of double effect (temporary)|6 March 2006|talk=no}}


'''Previous discussions:'''
Coming from the discussion page ] where the Principle of Double Effect finally takes hyper-important issue , I will here place that which I find relevant to the above user's notice . I ask readers and editors for their indulgence in allowing me to use this space to somehow construct a shared understanding of the relationship of this principle or doctrine to one of the great issues of modern history , the morality of assistance to dictatorship , particularly that of Adolf Hitler . All can be archived in time , if there is time . I do not hve much time so the apparent disorder created may annoy those with greater education or more time . ] 17:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
*]: ] 12:39, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
**Note: The above archive mostly consists of writing by ]. —] (]) 06:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
"may also cause an effect one would otherwise be obliged to avoid (sedation and a slightly shortened life)"


Why is sedation something one is otherwise obliged to avoid?
==Concepts relating to a Future Discussion of Double Effect re : ]==
==Criticism #2==


Not a valid criticism. Torture is an 'intrinsic evil,' an inherently bad moral object and therefore the Principle of Double Effect does not even apply. Misplaced Pages is a joke. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
===Social Justice===
All of the difficulty with attempting to affect the common good indirectly changed with Pius XI’s development of a completed theory of social virtue. Pius XI started by accepting the fact and all the implications of man being social by nature. He followed this with the idea that society was intrinsically social. Society was not just a collection of individuals, but of individuals coming together and associating in groups. Groups are specifically social creations. This means that the common good, while broadly, if precisely, defined as the capacity to acquire and develop all virtue (that which all men have in common), also takes on concrete form as the aggregation of groups -- institutions. These embody the ways, means, and formal “social transactions” developed within a society to assist the individual members of society in their task of acquiring and developing virtue. The common good becomes directly accessible by every human being, not just philosopher kings.


==Title of article==
Pius XI introduced the idea of a class of virtue that was not directed at the good of the individual, but at the good of society as a whole. '''Social virtue is directed at the good of the common good''', or, perhaps, more clearly, toward the health of those institutions of the common good which are designed to assist us in our task of acquiring and developing individual virtue. To repeat, this new class of virtue, let us call it “social virtue” (for that’s what it is), is not directed toward assisting any individual in his acquisition and development of individual good or goods. Social virtue is, on the contrary, directed toward assisting the institutions of society in maintaining or reforming themselves so as to enable them to assist individuals in acquiring and developing individual good or goods.


Should be referred to as "Principle" not "Doctrine". ]
To put it yet another way, social virtue is not directed at assisting individual members of society to acquire and develop virtue, but at helping institutions acquire and develop the structures that assist individual members of society in acquiring and developing virtue. Social virtue is, therefore, by definition, directed toward the common good, not the individual good of any member or members of society, regardless how numerous they might be.


:Agreed, and I have moved the page accordingly. Google returns more hits for "principle of double effect" than "doctrine of double effect". &mdash;] (]) 07:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
That is a difficult concept to understand. People have been misunderstanding it since Pius XI first began teaching it. The result has been that, just as they have for thousands of years, people still attempt to reform the social order through the application, more or less intensive, of the individual . From ]


===Argumentum ad judicium===


''argumentum ad judicium'' : An argument where appeal is made to common sense and the judgment of people as validating a point.


It should be referred to as the "Doctrine of Double Effect" as that is the term most used in philosophical circles today. It is the term employed by the popular textbook "Ethics in Practice" and the term used by Peter Singer in "Practical Ethics"
===Causality===
:Doing Ethics also refers to it as the Doctrine of Double Effect ] (]) 20:34, 18 October 2010 (UTC)


== controversial statements on war ==
Causality : The relationship between cause and effect. The principle that all events have sufficient causes. From - ]
"Whether the Principle applies to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a highly controversial question, whereas the sometimes massive conventional bombing of european cities was usually justify by the principle."


Apart from the obvious spelling mistakes, I don't see where the bombing of European cities were
===Condemnation===
justified by the principle. On the contrary, most history books claim they were of the other type cited in the article, that of purposefully doing wrong to demoralise the enemy. The same was said for the atomic bombs (which, in destruction, were not so much greater than the bombing of Tokyo, for example, or the German cities.) I suggest to rewrite or remove this paragraph. ] 05:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


* . Someone might say "sometimes justified", but it probably applies to both, and this is one of those things that really should be attributed in any case.
Declaring an evildoer to be guilty; the punishment inflicted. Without Jesus we stand condemned before God not only because of the sin of Adam (Rom. 5:16-18) but also because of our own sin (Matt. 12:37). However, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death" (Rom. 8:1-2). Christians have passed out of condemnation because they are forgiven in Christ. ''ibid .


== some evil must be done to bring about an enormous good? ==


"Although he is reluctant to give up the bomb's location, his interrogators can exploit his attachment to his family by torturing them before his eyes, in order to extract the information which would save millions of lives."
===]===


Imagine a five years old boy screaming while being skinned alive in front of his father. I fail to convince myself that saving other people, even millions, is "enormous good" enough to justify it.
A set of accepted beliefs held by a group. In religion, it is the set of true beliefs that define the parameters of that belief system. Hence, there is true doctrine and false doctrine relative to each belief set. In Christianity, for example, a true biblical doctrine is that there is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). A false doctrine is that there is more than one God in all existence. From-
:Well, yes, but in that case justification would come from the fact that skinning five-year-olds alive is jolly fun! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 04:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
] ] 16:38, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


*I'm not sure that example would fall under double effect anyway - perhaps it should be removed.
===]===
:: While torturing a child to extract information from a terrorist father does NOT meet the conditions of the DDE, I think the idea is show that the DDE is too restrictive by presenting an example which "clearly shows" that one may do evil in order to achieve a greater good. If this was the intent, then perhaps some rewording may make this clearer. Then again, DDE implicitly assumes that we already agree that doing evil to achieve good is wrong. Utilitarians who believe that one may murder to harvest organs for many obviously have no need for DDE. ] 21:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


:::I don't know how this example can be salvaged. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Canon : This is another word for scripture. The Canon consists of the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New. The Canon is closed which means there is no more revelation to become Scripture . see ''ibid''.
</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


I would like to add that this page has defined very poorly Double-Effect. I studied Thomism and specialized in Aquinas' philosophy at the University of Western Ontario. It is in regard to the third point about conditions on double effect. You state that the two results must be proportionate. This is false, and let me quote Aquinas to prove it


"And yet, though proceeding from a good intention, an act may be rendered unlawful, if it be out of proportion to the end."
===]===


In other words, proportionality is between the object/act and the intended-result, not between the two ends. If you were to measure proportionality between the two ends you would be rendering the object neutral and therefore be ascribing to a consequentionalistic or utilitarian philosophy. Any more questions e-mail me at cpietra@uwo.ca
Sin :Sin is anything that is contrary to the law or will of God. For example: if you lie, you have sinned. Why? Because God has said not to lie (Exodus 20:16). If you do what God has forbidden, then you have sinned. In addition, if you do not do what God has commanded, you sin (James 4:17). Either way, the result is eternal separation from God (Isaiah 59:2). Sin is lawlessness (1 John 1:3) and unrighteousness (1 John 5:17). Sin leads to bondage (Rom. 6:14-20) and death (Rom. 6:23).


== Utilitarianism and examples ==
Paul, in the book of Romans, discusses sin. He shows that everyone, both Jew and Greek, is under sin (Rom. 3:9). He shows that sin is not simply something that is done, but a condition of the heart (Rom. 3:10-12). In Ephesians Paul says that we are "by nature children of wrath" (Eph. 2:3). Yet, "while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly" (Rom. 5:6). From - ''ibid'' .
The article suffers from a serious consistency problem. It says that utilitarians reject DDE and gives torture examples as examples of what is prohibited if the DDE is true. But this doesn't fit the DDE as it is stated at the top of the article. The DDE as given states (I paraphrase for clarity): "IF these four conditions are met, THEN the action is permissible." It does not state that the four conditions MUST be met for an action to be permissible. In fact, a utilitarian can say that the DDE is true, but just doesn't go far enough because you can delete all the conditions except for proportionality. Now as a matter of fact, just about all the ethicists who identify themselves as defenders of the DDE do so because they think it's wrong to intentionally cause basic evils like the death of an innocent person, and yet want to allow tactical bombing or manufacturing vaccines that have rare fatal side-effects. So the self-identified defenders of the DDE do think the conditions are necessary for an action with some basic evils among the consequences to be right. Bu the DDE as stated doesn't say so. So something needs to be fixed in this article. I don't have the time to do this myself.] 22:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


:Yes, I would agree with that. There are certainly many modern deconstructions of the DDE that betray the actual teaching of Thomas Aquinas, such as its use to justify neoconservative agendas of (supposedly) ]s in Iraq and so forth. ] (]) 08:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
===]===


== Merging and expanding ==
Sola Scriptura :The teaching that the Scriptures contain all that is necessary for salvation and proper living before God.


I will take up the task of merging the two articles, deleting the temporary one and expanding this one as best as I can. Anyone interested in helping me out with this task will be very welcome. --- ] 11:27, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
===Righteousness===


== Citations needed ==
Righteousness is an attribute of moral purity belonging to God alone (John 17:25 ). It is He alone who is truly righteous. No one in the world is righteous in the eyes of the Lord, that is, except the Christian. We are counted righteous in the eyes of God when we receive Jesus by faith (Phil. 3:9). Our righteousness is based on what Jesus did on the cross. The righteousness that was Christ's is counted to us. We, then, are seen as righteous in the eyes of God. Though we are actually worthy of damnation, we are made righteous (Isaiah 61:10) by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. As a result, we will spend eternity in the presence of the holy, pure, loving, kind, gentle, and righteous God who is our righteousness.


Citations are needed for (especially) two items. One, the article states: "Double Effect depends on the following principles" and lists three such principles. Where do these come from? Second, in the section "Catholic view", the article lists four requirements for an action to be justified by the doctrine. Perhaps this comes from the ]? or the ]? or the ]? It certainly sounds like the Roman Catholic view, but the article needs to cite the source.
==Natural Law Ethical Theory==


:The above wasn't me, but I removed the following "The principle of double effect is becoming a defence used by doctors who have acted negligently or illegally in caring for ill or dying patients." because it's a sweeping statement and no citation is given anyway...--] 11:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Some examples of what natural law ethical theory is, or is not, and why it could be considered useful in this debate, include the following:


::I'm removing the statement "Double Effect depends on the following principles" and the three listed principle; I couldn't find any source that supports it. However, I have inserted the four requirements necessary for the justification of double effect. -- 12:00, 28 Oct 2006
*1. It is a philosophical ethical theory, not a theological one - although it can be and is related to theology. That is, natural law ethical theory aids us in understanding which human actions are morally right or wrong through the aid of human reason alone - without the use of Divine Revelation or the teachings of the Magisterium. It has been studied and refined over the centuries as a means of addressing what is the morally right thing for us to do when faced with genuine moral dilemmas.


::: Do we need a citation concerning Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? Has anyone actually suggested in a published source that the principles of double effect apply to Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The support for Hiroshima bombing seems to take the "ends justifies the means" approach which is distinct from double effect ] 06:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
*2. In counter-distinction to many other ethical theories, natural law ethical theory is proximately and objectively grounded in our objectively knowable human nature, i.e., on what is really good or bad for us as human beings - as individuals and as members of our human communities.
::The entire article suffers from lack of citations - each example should be cited somewhere, or the point of having examples is lost.<small>] ]</small> 07:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


== Biased content ==
*3. Because the basic precepts of natural law theory are proximately grounded on an objectively knowable human nature, they are applicable to all human beings, precisely because we all possess such human natures. The possession of natures which are specifically human is precisely what we all have in common. This is true regardless of time, culture, background, race, sex, religion or political affiliation.


The last two paragraphs of the "Applications" section are written by an absolutist, who seems to feel that, given current medical knowledge, bad effects can always be avoided. The author refers to (but does not cite) “Thirty years of palliative care experience and research” showing that “it is invariably possible to manage pain or distress with titrated doses of drugs, without hastening death.” This is simply untrue. Current literature suggests that the risk of bad effects, such as dependence and hastening of death, can be reduced but not eliminated entirely (see Fallon M, Hanks G, Cherny N. Principles of control of cancer pain
*4. Thus if properly understood and applied, natural law theory should be ideal for our "pluralistic" society - since all of our citizens are human beings, and hold at least that in common. What is fundamentally good or bad for human beings in general will hold for us all.
British Medical Journal 2006 Apr 29;332(7548):1022-4 for review). Literature also suggests that pain is often undertreated to avoid adverse effects, constituting a "reverse double effect": allowing pain (intentional bad effect) while avoiding adverse effects. A similar argument follows for the final paragraph. Although neutropenia is an undesirable side effect which warrants careful monitoring and treatment, withholding or reducing chemotherapy to avoid this effect consitutes malpractice, since it allows a primary bad effect (non-treatment of cancer). Both paragraphs should be removed.


I concur --] 19:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
**Finally, in natural law ethical theory, there are three determinants of a human action which determine its rightness or wrongness, and all three determinants must be good in order for an action to be considered good: the above are with acknowledgement , educational fair use, from _]
<br />
I am sympatetic with Claude fight for better information for palliative care.
'''Here I . Famekeeper ,will myself , according as the law of Copyright extolls, attempt to evade censure for '''lifting''' thought(thought which any reasonable human being could understand), and attempt to paraphrase the three factors . He (she) who continues to argue my good faith should confer with their conscience, as do the '''bosses'' who consider ever more the issue of copyright of importance in this digital revolution.
I disagree with carry on a *discussion* on a palliative care article.I very very very disagree
with spreading this discussion in many Misplaced Pages article. ]


Moved from main:


Oh well, for fear of being more absolutist (I should wish...) I need to point out that the article by Fallon et al has been misrepresented. In this article the authors write:
''In part, it depends on the meaning of "all other things being equal" and "exactly the same consequences". If this definition somehow excludes the mental framework for the decision, there ''is'' a difference in the potential for ] for a 'bad act' motivated by 'bad intention' from a 'bad act' that was unintentional. The two situations would therefore differ in their probable future impact and be morally distinguishable to utilitarians.''
* 'Tolerance to opioids is rarely seen in cancer patients.'
* 'Psychological dependence or addiction is not a problem...'
As for hastening death, the authors acknowledge that opioids have that potential, but perhaps I could point you to the section on ] which now contains multiple references to the experiences that opioids do not hasten death when used safely.
<br />
Perhaps my absolutism on opioids was the reason for removing the second paragraph about neutropaenia, but doing so missed the point. The issue is that many consider it acceptable to link double effect with opioids despite considerable evidence that this does not happen when they are used safely. And yet death due to neutropaenia is never considered as double effect. The point was that death from an opioid should be investigated and analysed in the same way as death from neutropaenia.
<br />
I have attempted to correct my absolutism in the changes I made. I promise to try and be less absolute (I think...)
<br />
--] 23:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


<br />
I think this paragraph is confused, or if it isn't, needs an example to make it clear. Because I don't understand it. We're talking about what utilitarians would consider good acts, ie acts where the good consequences outweight the bad, so talk of "bad acts" and "recidivism" needs explaining. ] 17:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
The final sentence of the penultimate paragraph is still biased: "The intent of a palliative care physician is relief without harm, while the second is relief at any cost and suggests either negligence or malice." The intent of "the second" type of physician need not be negligence or malice; if this physician is working under priciples very different from the author's (i.e. if the physician supported assisted suicide in certain cases), she would believe herself to be doing good. A sizeable population of third-party observers would agree.


<br />
===Determinants of Natural Law Ethical Theory===
Good point. However this is not the dilemma it seems as even the Dutch find morphine a poor euthanasia agent and is the drug least used of all in euthansaia in the Netherlands. Therefore, using high doses of morphine is either an negligence or malice. I have altered the text and added a reference to make this clearer.
--] 17:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


== Repetition ==
It is taught by this writer here that there are three determinants governing whether an action is good and that there is no allowance for a false qualifiction that says there are no absolutes of good or un-good (which can only be a-morally claimed)


The introduction's bullet list is almost exactly the same as the list under the "roman catholic" section--will someone fix this?
*1)The willed '''action''' itself - abortion , bad; as opposed to chemotherapy , good .


You are quite right- in fact I'm not sure why there is a 'Catholic view' since this principle is not a religious edict or instruction. So, apologies to the original author of that section but I have removed it and changed the text describing the principle to a more updated version.
*2)The willed '''intention''' or achieveable result ( cure of cancer, spacing of children or etc).
--] 17:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


== War and palliative care ==
*3)The '''un-will''' of circumstance (rape as opposed to the marital consequence of intercourse) .
The definition of double effect now includes examples from the military arena. As double effect applies to many different arenas it seems unecessary to include military examples in the definition, especially as 'War' is considered seperately. I have therefore removed military examples from the definition.


<br />
here the proposition is that there is distinction between action that is '''evil''' ''per se'' and action that is good ''per se'' yet dominated by bad intention . Here again there is recourse to the ] (it says principle, aside to confirm the first post on this page ) of '''double effect'''.
Palliative care is being misrepresented by the linkage between pain relief/terminal sedation and euthansia (two quite different clincial approaches). I realise that this has caused disbelief for one contributor earlier this year, but the link to ] provides more references. Another previous contributor was unhappy that this section on double effect included a discussion about palliative care, but this is inevitable since palliative care is a speciality built around making decisions at the end of life. Consequently, I have altered the text to make this clearer.
--] (]) 21:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


== Have there been any studies regarding "irresponsible behavior" and "unknown consequences" pertaining to double effect? ==
===Proceeding Analysis of the Principle of Double Effect===


Consider the following scenario:
This I, FK, attempt to abbreviate from ] who, apart from the length , could rightly be represented in full .


A man who is mentally competent to research explosives and read safety instructions fails to do so out of laziness as he plans to detonate TNT to remove a tree stump from his yard. Had he done the research, he would have known exactly how much TNT to use, but instead uses his best judgment. He uses far too much TNT and the explosion fells a nearby tree into his neighbor's house, killing one or more of its occupants.
We return to the four necessary conditions based on the principle ( I, FK ,analyse as deriving from the ] of ''romans 3,8'' in my WP travels ) which is that an evil must never be willed even as by-product of a virtuous effect . Fogethey is reported as stating that evil can be reduced to this by-product if it is an incidental and un-avoidable by-product of the good sought '''licitly''' ( IE , in Catholic terms ,not in contravention of Pius XI's social justice) .


Does any part of double effect serve to defend or condemn the man's negligence? Does negligence even get considered in double effect? Certainly other irresponsible behavior, such as driving under the influence or even failing to maintain proper hygine while preparing food for the public is accepted by the majority of the population as unethical and immoral, but according to double effect, the killing or harming of individuals in these cases are merely a side-effect of one's actions. The man with the TNT did not intend to harm anybody, nor did his lack of research ''directly'' kill his neighbor. He could have been lucky and had used just the right amount of TNT by chance, or even not enough, in which case it wouldn't have killed anybody, but wouldn't have successfully removed the stump as well. Double effect seems to only pertain to cases where people know ''all'' of the options ''and their consequences'', which doesn't apply often in the real world.
So whilst I am not bound to prevent evil ''out there already'' , I could tolerate it '''if''' that toleration prevented great harm to myself, society etc .


Most people would condemn the man responsible for his neighbor's death, as would I, but it seems the principle of double effect would defend this man's actions.
Fogethy's analysis seeks the legally inherent differentiation between my refusal to countenance and bolster evil , against my finding that it allows itself of its own accord to result from my action. However as presented his re-definitions do not pertain morally to the politicalor social justice case of ] but are confined as it sems most dealings with double-effect, to the narrower, though harrowing , issue of ] .'''


To put this in perspective of an example already in this article, let's assume a strategic target is located right next to an orphanage, and by striking that target, the orphanage is also destroyed, killing the children. Had the generals done more research on the target and discovered this additional information, they would have canceled the strike, but despite their best intentions, they still managed to do just as much harm as if they had struck only the orphanage. Are the generals at fault? Perhaps the answer to this is: if time allowed them to do the extra research, then they are just as responsible for striking the orphanage in this scenario as they would if they knowingly struck the orphanage.
However the following passage ,primarily diected at the saving of the un-born, could be held as applicable to the child ]s , the adolescents, and , indeed the apparently entire law-abiding Jewish community , imperilled by the mental reduction of moral awareness of ] to the particular if perennial question of ] .


In the case of the trolley killing the man in a hammock, do the ethics involved change if the man was behind a fence and the observer pulling the lever did not know the man was in his hammock, but should have considered this possibility since by pulling the trolley it would be crashing into a fenced-in back yard?
] drafted his concerns and his teaching in ], ''Encyclical Letter on Christian Marriage'' and this teaching says : ''' Those who hold the reins of government should not forget that it is the duty of public authority by appropriate laws and sanctions to defend the lives of the ] , and this all the more so since those whose lives are endangered and assailed cannot defend themselves .'''

Thoughts?

] (]) 18:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

== Attribution to Aquinas ==

Should DDE be attributed to Aquinas? G.E.M. Anscombe protests that it shouldn't fairly convincingly in 'Action, Intention and 'Double Effect''. Aquinas's discussion of killing in self defence is not a good guide to his opinion on responsibility for the evil consequences of actions. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Medicine ==

The statements are overly simplified. Public health decisions are heavily based on statistics analysis, i.e., risk of taking the vaccine vs. risk of not taking the vaccine for each individual and scenario. It has nothing to do with "number of people saved vs. number of people killed". Regarding abortion, at least in Western countries, it is not a matter of public health and in the jurisdictions that allow it the decision is an individual one, taken by patients with the advise of practitioners but not enforced by any medical set of standards. Indeed, "the greater evil of the death of both the mother and the fetus" is not a medical definition. The practical consequence is that if the doctor denies the procedure, he or she cannot be prosecuted. ] (]) 13:10, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402110050/http://www.catholic.com/audio-player/8236 to http://www.catholic.com/audio-player/8236

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}

Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 15:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

== Who named it "double effect"? ==

The principle is commonly credited to Aquinas - but who named it "double effect"? Anyone know? SEP doesn't say - ] (]) 18:34, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 11:38, 8 February 2024

This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconPhilosophy: Ethics Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Misplaced Pages.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Associated task forces:
/ 
Taskforce icon
Ethics
The contents of the Principle of double effect (temporary) page were merged into Principle of double effect on 6 March 2006. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history.

Previous discussions:

"may also cause an effect one would otherwise be obliged to avoid (sedation and a slightly shortened life)"

Why is sedation something one is otherwise obliged to avoid?

Criticism #2

Not a valid criticism. Torture is an 'intrinsic evil,' an inherently bad moral object and therefore the Principle of Double Effect does not even apply. Misplaced Pages is a joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.25.37 (talk) 18:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Title of article

Should be referred to as "Principle" not "Doctrine". User:194.80.106.135

Agreed, and I have moved the page accordingly. Google returns more hits for "principle of double effect" than "doctrine of double effect". —Lowellian (reply) 07:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


It should be referred to as the "Doctrine of Double Effect" as that is the term most used in philosophical circles today. It is the term employed by the popular textbook "Ethics in Practice" and the term used by Peter Singer in "Practical Ethics"

Doing Ethics also refers to it as the Doctrine of Double Effect Eggbertx (talk) 20:34, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

controversial statements on war

"Whether the Principle applies to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is a highly controversial question, whereas the sometimes massive conventional bombing of european cities was usually justify by the principle."

Apart from the obvious spelling mistakes, I don't see where the bombing of European cities were justified by the principle. On the contrary, most history books claim they were of the other type cited in the article, that of purposefully doing wrong to demoralise the enemy. The same was said for the atomic bombs (which, in destruction, were not so much greater than the bombing of Tokyo, for example, or the German cities.) I suggest to rewrite or remove this paragraph. Hoemaco 05:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Rewritten. Someone might say "sometimes justified", but it probably applies to both, and this is one of those things that really should be attributed in any case.

some evil must be done to bring about an enormous good?

"Although he is reluctant to give up the bomb's location, his interrogators can exploit his attachment to his family by torturing them before his eyes, in order to extract the information which would save millions of lives."

Imagine a five years old boy screaming while being skinned alive in front of his father. I fail to convince myself that saving other people, even millions, is "enormous good" enough to justify it.

Well, yes, but in that case justification would come from the fact that skinning five-year-olds alive is jolly fun! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.132.65.97 (talk) 04:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure that example would fall under double effect anyway - perhaps it should be removed.
While torturing a child to extract information from a terrorist father does NOT meet the conditions of the DDE, I think the idea is show that the DDE is too restrictive by presenting an example which "clearly shows" that one may do evil in order to achieve a greater good. If this was the intent, then perhaps some rewording may make this clearer. Then again, DDE implicitly assumes that we already agree that doing evil to achieve good is wrong. Utilitarians who believe that one may murder to harvest organs for many obviously have no need for DDE. 64.42.233.58 21:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how this example can be salvaged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.75.48.150 (talk) 18:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add that this page has defined very poorly Double-Effect. I studied Thomism and specialized in Aquinas' philosophy at the University of Western Ontario. It is in regard to the third point about conditions on double effect. You state that the two results must be proportionate. This is false, and let me quote Aquinas to prove it

"And yet, though proceeding from a good intention, an act may be rendered unlawful, if it be out of proportion to the end."

In other words, proportionality is between the object/act and the intended-result, not between the two ends. If you were to measure proportionality between the two ends you would be rendering the object neutral and therefore be ascribing to a consequentionalistic or utilitarian philosophy. Any more questions e-mail me at cpietra@uwo.ca

Utilitarianism and examples

The article suffers from a serious consistency problem. It says that utilitarians reject DDE and gives torture examples as examples of what is prohibited if the DDE is true. But this doesn't fit the DDE as it is stated at the top of the article. The DDE as given states (I paraphrase for clarity): "IF these four conditions are met, THEN the action is permissible." It does not state that the four conditions MUST be met for an action to be permissible. In fact, a utilitarian can say that the DDE is true, but just doesn't go far enough because you can delete all the conditions except for proportionality. Now as a matter of fact, just about all the ethicists who identify themselves as defenders of the DDE do so because they think it's wrong to intentionally cause basic evils like the death of an innocent person, and yet want to allow tactical bombing or manufacturing vaccines that have rare fatal side-effects. So the self-identified defenders of the DDE do think the conditions are necessary for an action with some basic evils among the consequences to be right. Bu the DDE as stated doesn't say so. So something needs to be fixed in this article. I don't have the time to do this myself.Pruss 22:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I would agree with that. There are certainly many modern deconstructions of the DDE that betray the actual teaching of Thomas Aquinas, such as its use to justify neoconservative agendas of (supposedly) just wars in Iraq and so forth. ADM (talk) 08:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Merging and expanding

I will take up the task of merging the two articles, deleting the temporary one and expanding this one as best as I can. Anyone interested in helping me out with this task will be very welcome. --- Kripkenstein 11:27, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Citations needed

Citations are needed for (especially) two items. One, the article states: "Double Effect depends on the following principles" and lists three such principles. Where do these come from? Second, in the section "Catholic view", the article lists four requirements for an action to be justified by the doctrine. Perhaps this comes from the Summa Theologica? or the Catholic Encyclopedia? or the New Catholic Encycolpedia? It certainly sounds like the Roman Catholic view, but the article needs to cite the source.

The above wasn't me, but I removed the following "The principle of double effect is becoming a defence used by doctors who have acted negligently or illegally in caring for ill or dying patients." because it's a sweeping statement and no citation is given anyway...--212.56.109.125 11:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing the statement "Double Effect depends on the following principles" and the three listed principle; I couldn't find any source that supports it. However, I have inserted the four requirements necessary for the justification of double effect. -- 12:00, 28 Oct 2006
Do we need a citation concerning Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? Has anyone actually suggested in a published source that the principles of double effect apply to Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The support for Hiroshima bombing seems to take the "ends justifies the means" approach which is distinct from double effect 68.147.171.228 06:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The entire article suffers from lack of citations - each example should be cited somewhere, or the point of having examples is lost.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 07:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Biased content

The last two paragraphs of the "Applications" section are written by an absolutist, who seems to feel that, given current medical knowledge, bad effects can always be avoided. The author refers to (but does not cite) “Thirty years of palliative care experience and research” showing that “it is invariably possible to manage pain or distress with titrated doses of drugs, without hastening death.” This is simply untrue. Current literature suggests that the risk of bad effects, such as dependence and hastening of death, can be reduced but not eliminated entirely (see Fallon M, Hanks G, Cherny N. Principles of control of cancer pain British Medical Journal 2006 Apr 29;332(7548):1022-4 for review). Literature also suggests that pain is often undertreated to avoid adverse effects, constituting a "reverse double effect": allowing pain (intentional bad effect) while avoiding adverse effects. A similar argument follows for the final paragraph. Although neutropenia is an undesirable side effect which warrants careful monitoring and treatment, withholding or reducing chemotherapy to avoid this effect consitutes malpractice, since it allows a primary bad effect (non-treatment of cancer). Both paragraphs should be removed.

I concur --67.114.173.106 19:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 

I am sympatetic with Claude fight for better information for palliative care.

I disagree with carry on a *discussion* on a palliative care article.I very very very disagree with spreading this discussion in many Misplaced Pages article. Albert0


Oh well, for fear of being more absolutist (I should wish...) I need to point out that the article by Fallon et al has been misrepresented. In this article the authors write:

  • 'Tolerance to opioids is rarely seen in cancer patients.'
  • 'Psychological dependence or addiction is not a problem...'

As for hastening death, the authors acknowledge that opioids have that potential, but perhaps I could point you to the section on Opioids which now contains multiple references to the experiences that opioids do not hasten death when used safely.
Perhaps my absolutism on opioids was the reason for removing the second paragraph about neutropaenia, but doing so missed the point. The issue is that many consider it acceptable to link double effect with opioids despite considerable evidence that this does not happen when they are used safely. And yet death due to neutropaenia is never considered as double effect. The point was that death from an opioid should be investigated and analysed in the same way as death from neutropaenia.
I have attempted to correct my absolutism in the changes I made. I promise to try and be less absolute (I think...)
--Claud Regnard 23:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


The final sentence of the penultimate paragraph is still biased: "The intent of a palliative care physician is relief without harm, while the second is relief at any cost and suggests either negligence or malice." The intent of "the second" type of physician need not be negligence or malice; if this physician is working under priciples very different from the author's (i.e. if the physician supported assisted suicide in certain cases), she would believe herself to be doing good. A sizeable population of third-party observers would agree.


Good point. However this is not the dilemma it seems as even the Dutch find morphine a poor euthanasia agent and is the drug least used of all in euthansaia in the Netherlands. Therefore, using high doses of morphine is either an negligence or malice. I have altered the text and added a reference to make this clearer. --Claud Regnard 17:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Repetition

The introduction's bullet list is almost exactly the same as the list under the "roman catholic" section--will someone fix this?

You are quite right- in fact I'm not sure why there is a 'Catholic view' since this principle is not a religious edict or instruction. So, apologies to the original author of that section but I have removed it and changed the text describing the principle to a more updated version. --Claud Regnard 17:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

War and palliative care

The definition of double effect now includes examples from the military arena. As double effect applies to many different arenas it seems unecessary to include military examples in the definition, especially as 'War' is considered seperately. I have therefore removed military examples from the definition.


Palliative care is being misrepresented by the linkage between pain relief/terminal sedation and euthansia (two quite different clincial approaches). I realise that this has caused disbelief for one contributor earlier this year, but the link to opioids provides more references. Another previous contributor was unhappy that this section on double effect included a discussion about palliative care, but this is inevitable since palliative care is a speciality built around making decisions at the end of life. Consequently, I have altered the text to make this clearer. --Claud Regnard (talk) 21:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Have there been any studies regarding "irresponsible behavior" and "unknown consequences" pertaining to double effect?

Consider the following scenario:

A man who is mentally competent to research explosives and read safety instructions fails to do so out of laziness as he plans to detonate TNT to remove a tree stump from his yard. Had he done the research, he would have known exactly how much TNT to use, but instead uses his best judgment. He uses far too much TNT and the explosion fells a nearby tree into his neighbor's house, killing one or more of its occupants.

Does any part of double effect serve to defend or condemn the man's negligence? Does negligence even get considered in double effect? Certainly other irresponsible behavior, such as driving under the influence or even failing to maintain proper hygine while preparing food for the public is accepted by the majority of the population as unethical and immoral, but according to double effect, the killing or harming of individuals in these cases are merely a side-effect of one's actions. The man with the TNT did not intend to harm anybody, nor did his lack of research directly kill his neighbor. He could have been lucky and had used just the right amount of TNT by chance, or even not enough, in which case it wouldn't have killed anybody, but wouldn't have successfully removed the stump as well. Double effect seems to only pertain to cases where people know all of the options and their consequences, which doesn't apply often in the real world.

Most people would condemn the man responsible for his neighbor's death, as would I, but it seems the principle of double effect would defend this man's actions.

To put this in perspective of an example already in this article, let's assume a strategic target is located right next to an orphanage, and by striking that target, the orphanage is also destroyed, killing the children. Had the generals done more research on the target and discovered this additional information, they would have canceled the strike, but despite their best intentions, they still managed to do just as much harm as if they had struck only the orphanage. Are the generals at fault? Perhaps the answer to this is: if time allowed them to do the extra research, then they are just as responsible for striking the orphanage in this scenario as they would if they knowingly struck the orphanage.

In the case of the trolley killing the man in a hammock, do the ethics involved change if the man was behind a fence and the observer pulling the lever did not know the man was in his hammock, but should have considered this possibility since by pulling the trolley it would be crashing into a fenced-in back yard?

Thoughts?

Randhuck (talk) 18:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Attribution to Aquinas

Should DDE be attributed to Aquinas? G.E.M. Anscombe protests that it shouldn't fairly convincingly in 'Action, Intention and 'Double Effect. Aquinas's discussion of killing in self defence is not a good guide to his opinion on responsibility for the evil consequences of actions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.16.203 (talk) 10:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Medicine

The statements are overly simplified. Public health decisions are heavily based on statistics analysis, i.e., risk of taking the vaccine vs. risk of not taking the vaccine for each individual and scenario. It has nothing to do with "number of people saved vs. number of people killed". Regarding abortion, at least in Western countries, it is not a matter of public health and in the jurisdictions that allow it the decision is an individual one, taken by patients with the advise of practitioners but not enforced by any medical set of standards. Indeed, "the greater evil of the death of both the mother and the fetus" is not a medical definition. The practical consequence is that if the doctor denies the procedure, he or she cannot be prosecuted. Aldo L (talk) 13:10, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Principle of double effect. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Who named it "double effect"?

The principle is commonly credited to Aquinas - but who named it "double effect"? Anyone know? SEP doesn't say - David Gerard (talk) 18:34, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Categories: