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| ==Goal for this article== | ==Goal for this article== | ||
| This article should ultimately constitute a continuing record of the social trauma resulting from Hurricane Katrina - both to individuals, and to society as a whole. It is likely that those who suffered the worst of it will have continuing problems recovering from the experience to which they have been subjected. It is also likely that issues deriving from the event will reverberate through society as a whole, and become ingrained in our social conscience, this event being like an environmental Pearl Harbor or September 11. However, it is also possible that the event will simply fade from people's thoughts, much as the Indonesian tsunami appears to have. After all, for those living in New York or California or Iowa, the Gulf Coast may as well be Indonesia. There will also be significant overlap between the social, political, and economic effects, and this should be documented as well. --] ] 21:08, 2 September 2005 (UTC) | This article should ultimately constitute a continuing record of the social trauma resulting from Hurricane Katrina - both to individuals, and to society as a whole. It is likely that those who suffered the worst of it will have continuing problems recovering from the experience to which they have been subjected. It is also likely that issues deriving from the event will reverberate through society as a whole, and become ingrained in our social conscience, this event being like an environmental Pearl Harbor or September 11. However, it is also possible that the event will simply fade from people's thoughts, much as the Indonesian tsunami appears to have. After all, for those living in New York or California or Iowa, the Gulf Coast may as well be Indonesia. There will also be significant overlap between the social, political, and economic effects, and this should be documented as well. --] ] 21:08, 2 September 2005 (UTC) | ||
| :Just felt the need to point out the obvious. To say that ''"However, it is also possible that the event will simply fade from people's thoughts, much as the Indonesian tsunami appears to have."'' is very short sighted. "Americans" may have forgotten, but "people", roughly 1.5 billion of them remember. Remember that most of victims from this tusnami lacks access to internet or sufficient knowledge in English to contribute to wikipedia. Their experiences are simply undocumented and not widely known. ] 04:28, 3 September 2005 (UTC) | :Just felt the need to point out the obvious. To say that ''"However, it is also possible that the event will simply fade from people's thoughts, much as the Indonesian tsunami appears to have."'' is very short sighted. "Americans" may have forgotten, but "people", roughly 1.5 billion of them remember. Remember that most of victims from this tusnami lacks access to internet or sufficient knowledge in English to contribute to wikipedia. Their experiences are simply undocumented and not widely known. ] 04:28, 3 September 2005 (UTC) | ||
| ::Point taken - I meant to say that it has faded from ''American'' people's thoughts. --] ] 04:33, 3 September 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ] | |||
| ==Unbiased?== | |||
| This article does not seem to be a record of the social trauma which, in any case, is difficult to define and could be best addressed on one of the many other pages dealing with the fallout from Katrina. I see now there are separate articles for ] and ]. Further, the statements about the government's response and the media's role reflect a distinct '''opinion.''' I think this article should '''merge''' into the main ] article or into one ] article summarizing the social, political, economic, geographic, and other effects of Katrina. | |||
| :I don't think it ought to be merged with another article. I appreciate having separate pages for the separate spheres of influence. As for being POV, the article discusses a "perceived" laxity in response - and it seems to me that it's a fact that many "peceive" laxity of response, whether one exists or not. If parts can be rewritten to make them more NPOV, by all means, let's do so. But I do think an article on the disaster's social effects deserves to exist. – ] <sup>(])</sup> 17:35, September 3, 2005 (UTC) | |||
| I don't think it should be merged either. It'd be nice to see some of the human aspects of this situation (future unemployment, etc) moved from other pages to here. After all, people are what matter most. ] 01:36, 8 September 2005 (UTC) | |||
| The intro has a claim for the future which is not supported anywhere else in the article: "the effect will likely be an end to some of the most impoverished neighborhoods in the United States, and end to a large degree the cycle of self-perpetuating poverty contained therein." I am not an expert on the subject of Katrina. I do know, and it is easily verifiable that the city of Gulfport is still under martial law. Testimonials of people i know who live and have worked recently in that area, which means little without actual documentation, paint a grimmer picture. If there is an end based on evidence that is out there, it will be because of displacement. My major concern is that there is absolutely nothing else in the article that pertains to that claim and as far as I am concerned it sounds like disinformation. Please support it or delete it. 15:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC) Heather N. Edwards, University of Arkansas | |||
| I've been asked to adopt this article by the director of Levees.org. I think the long-term goal of this article should be to provide a factual account of the widespread social and psychological dislocation caused the the flood of New Orleans. I don't believe the article should be merged with other, more general tropical weather articles. It should be broader and include the impacts of people on the Mississipi Gulf Coast. I appreciate the work done to date, and will only look to improve what is here. If I want to propose removal or replacement of existing material, I will attempt to contact the original author. ] | |||
| == Blanco (?) quote on bringing out the best/worst == | |||
| I recall seeing a quote, I believe from ] to the effect that normally disasters bring out the best in people, but this one seems to have brought out the worst in people. I can't seem to find it now, but if anyone comes across it, I think it belongs in this article. Cheers! --] ] 17:48, 3 September 2005 (UTC) | |||
| == Proposed merger of effects. == | |||
| Given their closeness in time and location, it strikes me that it will soon become difficult to separate the respective economic, political, and social effects of Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita. How would my fellow editors feel about moving the articles covering these aspects to ], ], and ]? --] ] 00:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC) | |||
| *Note: I've opened a centralized discussion on this question: ]. --] ] 00:26, 22 September 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ==Humanitarian & social effects merger== | |||
| It seems that a lot of the items in ] can actually be merged into this article (social effects). Both articles appear to be covering similar topics. Merging would simplify some of the Katrina-related articles, and reduce some of the clutter. ] 23:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Great. — ] <small>(])</small> 03:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :Articles merged. ] now redirects here and the Katrina template has been revised. The overall article has also been cleaned up a bit, and the references have been fixed and formatted. ] 06:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == "Refugee"/ "evacuee" issue - more? == | |||
| I came to this article thinking it would have more than it did on the whole controversy over the evacuees being called "refugees" in early stories. I haven't yet gotten to check out the NPR link given at the end of the article, but I'd like to see the article itself give a line or two more to this issue. I remember as a Texan and as a person with links to "foreigners," being bothered by people's reaction to the word "refugee." People said things like, "These aren't 'refugees,' these are U.S. citizens!" Some people's comments even seemed to imply that calling them refugees would have somehow made it OK to care less about them, or that it would mark them as inferior somehow (or perhaps more helpless?). In retrospect (and seeing what the article does say), there may have been a concern that people would class "refugees" with "those helpless people in other countries that we can't do much about" or also that the term "refugee" (associated in many news stories of the time with those fleeing wars in Africa) was somehow tied to the race of many who were fleeing. It was if people considered it a distancing term, but also as if it were some kind of epithet, the way people reacted. | |||
| In summary, the whole discussion was such a big discussion of semantics and their implications that it deserves a tiny bit more space in the article, if only as a historical record. It's certainly not the biggest social effect of Katrina (and some would argue it distract-s/-ed from "real" issues, when I think one could make a case that it ties to those big issues), but it's worthy of more mention.] 17:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| == Removal of section about displacement to Houston == | |||
| The following addition (not by me) was removed (again, not by me): | |||
| :The displaced Katrina evacuees found work in Houston. Houston branches of United States chains such as ] and ] automatically hired displaced employees from Louisiana and other areas who worked for the same companies in Louisiana and other states . | |||
| :Some displaced New Orleans chefs and cooks were hired by restaurants in Texas; Reynard LaVigne, a chef who worked at Galatoire's, began working at Palm's in Houston after moving to a rental house in ]; customers and staff at Palm's noticed a cultural change that began after LaVigne began working at Galatoire's. LaVigne's manner of catering to customers and adding a disctinctive flair to his service began attracting customers to Palm's. Suzy Bergner, a Houston socialite, stated "It's getting more like Galatoire's," referring to Palm's . | |||
| The edit summary said that these two paragraphs were removed because "not all evacuees went to Houston." To me, that's not a justification for cutting the whole section, but rather for editing it to be more accurate. I was trying to think how to edit the section to make it fit better, but I thought I'd call others' attention to it and see what y'all come up with ... it seems to me that the first paragraph merits inclusion — obviously, one would first modify the blanket statement that implies all evacuees or all those who found work went to Houston — while the second paragraph starts getting so individually specific as to be highly out of place in a general article about larger social effects of the hurricanes. Maybe we could take just the first sentence from the second paragraph and use it to elaborate the previous paragraph (i.e., giving examples of industries in Houston that hired large numbers of evacuees?). ] 01:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Snowball== | |||
| The separate article on ] is being considered for deletion. One of the proposals being made there is to abbreviate the material and transplant it to this article. In the event this proposal should reflect community consensus, I'm crafting a paragraph to that purpose and placing it here. | |||
| {{cquote|One case that attracted national attention was that of Snowball, a small white dog made famous by coverage of '']'' reporter ], who said, "Pets were not allowed on the bus, and when a police officer confiscated a little boy's dog, the child cried until he vomited. 'Snowball, Snowball', he cried. The policeman told a reporter he didn't know what would happen to the dog."<ref>Foster, Mary. ] ]. Associated Press. Accessed ] ].</ref><ref> ] ]. PR Leap Business News. Accessed ] ].</ref> The story of "Snowball" became a centerpiece in fundraising appeals by welfare organizations and various ad-hoc websites were created by people soliciting funds to help locate Snowball and reunite him with the boy.<ref>See, for example, .</ref> Inspired by the story of Snowball,<ref>. United States House of Representatives. ] ]. Accessed ] ].</ref><ref name="disaster">Kemper, Bob. ] ]. . Atlanta Journal Constitution. (Reprinted at the House of Representatives site of Congressman Lynn A. Westmoreland). Accessed ] ].</ref> ] ] (]-]) introduced the ] to the ] which would require states seeking ] assistance to accommodate pets and service animals in their plans for evacuating residents facing ]s.<ref> House of Representatives website. September 2005. Accessed ] ].</ref> The bill passed with an overwhelming majority on ] ].<ref>Shays, Christopher. House of Representatives website. Accessed ] ].</ref>}} | |||
| I think it would follow immediately after the sentence ending "were not allowed to take their pets with them (see also Snowball)." I am embedding references but not including a reference section. Obviously, if this paragraph were placed, the references would sort themselves into the main document. :) --] 13:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Expanding Social Effects== | |||
| As a student in a Misplaced Pages Education course, I am considering adding to the existing section on the social effects of Hurricane Katrina. I would like to expand on other disorders that are seen in Katrina victims and survivors in addition to PTSD. I am also particularly interested in transgenerational trauma as a result of Hurricane Katrina, which is being studied with growing intensity. Please read more about this project on my user page, ]! ] (]) 23:30, 12 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| <!-- EDITORS: Please add comments above this line --> | |||
| {{reflist-talk}} | |||
| == Merger proposal == | |||
| I propose that ] be merged into ]. The source article overlaps the target article and can easily be explained in the latter's context. As a stub consisting of two only paragraphs, the source article may be merged without unduly increasing the target article's size or implicating ] issues. ] (]) 17:30, 28 August 2018 (UTC) | |||
| : A better target for the content of ] might be ], which is listed as the 'main' article for ]. If someone was keen, then surely there are other examples of ] which could be discussed. ] (]) 09:58, 7 September 2019 (UTC) | |||
| ::Closing this proposal, and proposing another involving ]. ] (]) 20:32, 30 December 2019 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 01:21, 2 April 2024
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Goal for this article
This article should ultimately constitute a continuing record of the social trauma resulting from Hurricane Katrina - both to individuals, and to society as a whole. It is likely that those who suffered the worst of it will have continuing problems recovering from the experience to which they have been subjected. It is also likely that issues deriving from the event will reverberate through society as a whole, and become ingrained in our social conscience, this event being like an environmental Pearl Harbor or September 11. However, it is also possible that the event will simply fade from people's thoughts, much as the Indonesian tsunami appears to have. After all, for those living in New York or California or Iowa, the Gulf Coast may as well be Indonesia. There will also be significant overlap between the social, political, and economic effects, and this should be documented as well. -- BD2412 21:08, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
- Just felt the need to point out the obvious. To say that "However, it is also possible that the event will simply fade from people's thoughts, much as the Indonesian tsunami appears to have." is very short sighted. "Americans" may have forgotten, but "people", roughly 1.5 billion of them remember. Remember that most of victims from this tusnami lacks access to internet or sufficient knowledge in English to contribute to wikipedia. Their experiences are simply undocumented and not widely known. Revth 04:28, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
- Point taken - I meant to say that it has faded from American people's thoughts. -- BD2412 04:33, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Unbiased?
This article does not seem to be a record of the social trauma which, in any case, is difficult to define and could be best addressed on one of the many other pages dealing with the fallout from Katrina. I see now there are separate articles for Economic effects of Hurricane Katrina and Political effects of Hurricane Katrina. Further, the statements about the government's response and the media's role reflect a distinct opinion. I think this article should merge into the main Hurricane Katrina article or into one Neutral Point of View article summarizing the social, political, economic, geographic, and other effects of Katrina.
- I don't think it ought to be merged with another article. I appreciate having separate pages for the separate spheres of influence. As for being POV, the article discusses a "perceived" laxity in response - and it seems to me that it's a fact that many "peceive" laxity of response, whether one exists or not. If parts can be rewritten to make them more NPOV, by all means, let's do so. But I do think an article on the disaster's social effects deserves to exist. – Quadell 17:35, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it should be merged either. It'd be nice to see some of the human aspects of this situation (future unemployment, etc) moved from other pages to here. After all, people are what matter most. Haoie 01:36, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
The intro has a claim for the future which is not supported anywhere else in the article: "the effect will likely be an end to some of the most impoverished neighborhoods in the United States, and end to a large degree the cycle of self-perpetuating poverty contained therein." I am not an expert on the subject of Katrina. I do know, and it is easily verifiable that the city of Gulfport is still under martial law. Testimonials of people i know who live and have worked recently in that area, which means little without actual documentation, paint a grimmer picture. If there is an end based on evidence that is out there, it will be because of displacement. My major concern is that there is absolutely nothing else in the article that pertains to that claim and as far as I am concerned it sounds like disinformation. Please support it or delete it. 15:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC) Heather N. Edwards, University of Arkansas
I've been asked to adopt this article by the director of Levees.org. I think the long-term goal of this article should be to provide a factual account of the widespread social and psychological dislocation caused the the flood of New Orleans. I don't believe the article should be merged with other, more general tropical weather articles. It should be broader and include the impacts of people on the Mississipi Gulf Coast. I appreciate the work done to date, and will only look to improve what is here. If I want to propose removal or replacement of existing material, I will attempt to contact the original author. Wet Bank Guy
Blanco (?) quote on bringing out the best/worst
I recall seeing a quote, I believe from Kathleen Blanco to the effect that normally disasters bring out the best in people, but this one seems to have brought out the worst in people. I can't seem to find it now, but if anyone comes across it, I think it belongs in this article. Cheers! -- BD2412 17:48, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Proposed merger of effects.
Given their closeness in time and location, it strikes me that it will soon become difficult to separate the respective economic, political, and social effects of Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita. How would my fellow editors feel about moving the articles covering these aspects to Economic effects of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, Political effects of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, and Social effects of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season? -- BD2412 00:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
- Note: I've opened a centralized discussion on this question: Misplaced Pages:Centralized discussion/2005 Atlantic hurricane season effects. -- BD2412 00:26, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Humanitarian & social effects merger
It seems that a lot of the items in Humanitarian effects of Hurricane Katrina can actually be merged into this article (social effects). Both articles appear to be covering similar topics. Merging would simplify some of the Katrina-related articles, and reduce some of the clutter. Dr. Cash 23:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Great. — jdorje (talk) 03:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Articles merged. Humanitarian effects of Hurricane Katrina now redirects here and the Katrina template has been revised. The overall article has also been cleaned up a bit, and the references have been fixed and formatted. Dr. Cash 06:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
"Refugee"/ "evacuee" issue - more?
I came to this article thinking it would have more than it did on the whole controversy over the evacuees being called "refugees" in early stories. I haven't yet gotten to check out the NPR link given at the end of the article, but I'd like to see the article itself give a line or two more to this issue. I remember as a Texan and as a person with links to "foreigners," being bothered by people's reaction to the word "refugee." People said things like, "These aren't 'refugees,' these are U.S. citizens!" Some people's comments even seemed to imply that calling them refugees would have somehow made it OK to care less about them, or that it would mark them as inferior somehow (or perhaps more helpless?). In retrospect (and seeing what the article does say), there may have been a concern that people would class "refugees" with "those helpless people in other countries that we can't do much about" or also that the term "refugee" (associated in many news stories of the time with those fleeing wars in Africa) was somehow tied to the race of many who were fleeing. It was if people considered it a distancing term, but also as if it were some kind of epithet, the way people reacted.
In summary, the whole discussion was such a big discussion of semantics and their implications that it deserves a tiny bit more space in the article, if only as a historical record. It's certainly not the biggest social effect of Katrina (and some would argue it distract-s/-ed from "real" issues, when I think one could make a case that it ties to those big issues), but it's worthy of more mention.Lawikitejana 17:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Removal of section about displacement to Houston
The following addition (not by me) was removed (again, not by me):
- The displaced Katrina evacuees found work in Houston. Houston branches of United States chains such as Wal-Mart and Home Depot automatically hired displaced employees from Louisiana and other areas who worked for the same companies in Louisiana and other states .
- Some displaced New Orleans chefs and cooks were hired by restaurants in Texas; Reynard LaVigne, a chef who worked at Galatoire's, began working at Palm's in Houston after moving to a rental house in Bellaire; customers and staff at Palm's noticed a cultural change that began after LaVigne began working at Galatoire's. LaVigne's manner of catering to customers and adding a disctinctive flair to his service began attracting customers to Palm's. Suzy Bergner, a Houston socialite, stated "It's getting more like Galatoire's," referring to Palm's .
The edit summary said that these two paragraphs were removed because "not all evacuees went to Houston." To me, that's not a justification for cutting the whole section, but rather for editing it to be more accurate. I was trying to think how to edit the section to make it fit better, but I thought I'd call others' attention to it and see what y'all come up with ... it seems to me that the first paragraph merits inclusion — obviously, one would first modify the blanket statement that implies all evacuees or all those who found work went to Houston — while the second paragraph starts getting so individually specific as to be highly out of place in a general article about larger social effects of the hurricanes. Maybe we could take just the first sentence from the second paragraph and use it to elaborate the previous paragraph (i.e., giving examples of industries in Houston that hired large numbers of evacuees?). Lawikitejana 01:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Snowball
The separate article on Snowball (Hurricane Katrina dog) is being considered for deletion. One of the proposals being made there is to abbreviate the material and transplant it to this article. In the event this proposal should reflect community consensus, I'm crafting a paragraph to that purpose and placing it here.
| “ | One case that attracted national attention was that of Snowball, a small white dog made famous by coverage of Associated Press reporter Mary Foster, who said, "Pets were not allowed on the bus, and when a police officer confiscated a little boy's dog, the child cried until he vomited. 'Snowball, Snowball', he cried. The policeman told a reporter he didn't know what would happen to the dog." The story of "Snowball" became a centerpiece in fundraising appeals by welfare organizations and various ad-hoc websites were created by people soliciting funds to help locate Snowball and reunite him with the boy. Inspired by the story of Snowball, US Representative Tom Lantos (D-California) introduced the Pets Evacuation and Transportation Standards Act to the House of Representatives which would require states seeking FEMA assistance to accommodate pets and service animals in their plans for evacuating residents facing disasters. The bill passed with an overwhelming majority on May 22 2006. | ” |
I think it would follow immediately after the sentence ending "were not allowed to take their pets with them (see also Snowball)." I am embedding references but not including a reference section. Obviously, if this paragraph were placed, the references would sort themselves into the main document. :) --Moonriddengirl 13:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Expanding Social Effects
As a student in a Misplaced Pages Education course, I am considering adding to the existing section on the social effects of Hurricane Katrina. I would like to expand on other disorders that are seen in Katrina victims and survivors in addition to PTSD. I am also particularly interested in transgenerational trauma as a result of Hurricane Katrina, which is being studied with growing intensity. Please read more about this project on my user page, Potential Project Topics! Madison Roy (talk) 23:30, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
References
- Foster, Mary. September 1 2005. Superdome Evacuations Enter Second Day Associated Press. Accessed August 30 2007.
- Snowball, Snowball, the little dog who broke the nation's heart! September 7 2005. PR Leap Business News. Accessed August 30 2007.
- See, for example, Snowball Fund.
- Pets Evacuation and Transportation Standards Act of 2006 Section 51. United States House of Representatives. September 20 2006. Accessed August 31 2007.
- Kemper, Bob. May 23 2006. Pet-loving Georgians call bill a disaster. Atlanta Journal Constitution. (Reprinted at the House of Representatives site of Congressman Lynn A. Westmoreland). Accessed August 30 2007.
- Pets Evacuation and Transportation Standards Act House of Representatives website. September 2005. Accessed August 30 2007.
- Shays, Christopher. Animal Welfare: Pets Evacuation and Transportation Standards (PETS) Act House of Representatives website. Accessed August 30 2007.
Merger proposal
I propose that Internally displaced persons in the United States be merged into Social effects of Hurricane Katrina. The source article overlaps the target article and can easily be explained in the latter's context. As a stub consisting of two only paragraphs, the source article may be merged without unduly increasing the target article's size or implicating WP:DUE issues. KalHolmann (talk) 17:30, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
- A better target for the content of Internally displaced persons in the United States might be New Orleans diaspora, which is listed as the 'main' article for Social effects of Hurricane Katrina#Displacement. If someone was keen, then surely there are other examples of internally displaced persons in the United States which could be discussed. Klbrain (talk) 09:58, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
- Closing this proposal, and proposing another involving New Orleans diaspora. Klbrain (talk) 20:32, 30 December 2019 (UTC)