Talk:Information war during the Russo-Georgian War: Difference between revisions

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			{{oldafdfull\|page=Disinformation campaign during Russian-Georgian war\|date=24 August 2008\|result='''keep'''}}
	{{WikiProject ~~Russia~~\|class=Start\|~~importance=Low}}~~		{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=Start\|
			{{WikiProject Russia\|importance=Mid\|media=yes\|pol=yes\|mil=yes\|hist=yes}}
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	There is absolutely nothing here which could be regarded as an "attack page". The entire content has been simply taken from an ''existing article'' ] in order to make it more readable. Please see diacussion at talk page of ].] (]) 23:19, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
			* ] <small>(2008)</small>
	:The first line, "] of 2008 included an extensive ] campaign conducted by the Russsian government." indicates that this is an attack page --- To call something a propaganda campaign is to state a POV --- Since the first line indicates the purpose of the article, the article's purpose is to make a POV claim.---] (]) 23:25, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
			}}
			__TOC__

			== moved from SO war ==
	::Are you kidding? We have ''a lot'' of articles about ] - please see ]. Could you please use AfD instead if you have any concerns?] (]) 23:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
			''On August 10 ] reported that "a Reuters witness and the Georgian interior ministry" claimed an attack on the civilian ]. Later, Georgian State Minister for Reintegration ] admitted that the attack had not taken place, stating, "There was no attack on the airport in Tbilisi. It was a factory that produces combat airplanes" (most likely referring to ], a military avionics plant near Tbilisi).<ref name="Georgian minister denounces Russian attack on Tbilisi airport had place">{{cite news
	:::There is a difference between an article "about" propaganda and an article claiming some entity's action was propaganda. For example, if I said that the U.S. government engaged in a propaganda campaign to initiate war against Iraq, and based an entire article on that claim, the article would clearly be POV. I'm happy to use AfD---] (]) 23:33, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
			\|url=http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010187.html
			\|title=Jewish Georgian minister: Thanks to Israeli training, we're fending off Russia
			\|work=]
			\|accessdate=2008-08-11
			}}</ref>''
			{{Reflist}}
		⚫	This could be added to the article here. --] (]) 22:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

			== removing POV tag with no active discussion per ] ==
⚫	~~:::~~ Is the ~~AfD matter~~ ~~solved?~~ --] (]) 01:30, 25 ~~August~~ ~~2008~~ (UTC)

			I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at ]:
	::::Removed AfD --] (]) 02:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
			::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
			::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
			::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
			::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

			Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- ] (]) 23:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
	::::: Appropriate information as to notices added should be made clearly so as to favour discussion. However, the following shall summarise the review
	::::: * Concerning content fork (moving a section of an article to a new article) ] Avoiding unnecessary splits<br /><blockquote>¨Editors are cautioned to not immediately split articles if the new article would meet neither the general notability criterion nor the specific notability criteria for their topic. Instead, editors should fully develop the main article first, locating sources of real-world coverage that apply both to the main topic and to the subtopic. Through this process, it may become evident that subtopics or groups of subtopics can demonstrate their own notability and can be split off into their own article.<br />Creation of the new article should be agreed to by consensus of editors. A template (splitSection) can be used to direct their attention to the issue. If information can be trimmed, merged, or removed, these steps should be undertaken first before the new article is created.¨</blockquote>
	::::: * Concerning POV fork ] notice:This section was moved from the main article, and the title changed to "Russia-Georgia" war. It was probably done in good faith, but it has created much confusion. This section relates specifically to one article, and hence should be moved back.<br /><blockquote>¨A point of view (POV) fork is a content fork deliberately created to avoid neutral point of view guidelines, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts. Both content forks and POV forks are undesirable on Misplaced Pages, as they avoid consensus building and therefore violate one of our most important policies. <br /> Any improvements should be done on the main article page for now.Both content forks and POV forks are undesirable on Misplaced Pages, as they avoid consensus building and therefore violate one of our most important policies.¨</blockquote>
	::::: * Concerning Attack page ] notice: <blockquote>¨A Misplaced Pages article, page, template, category, redirect or image created for the sole purpose of disparaging its subject is an attack page. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, these pages are subject to being deleted by any administrator at any time. Non-administrative users who find such pages should add the tag to them, and should warn the user who created them by putting the tag on their talk page.<br />If the subject of the article is notable, but the existing page consists solely or primarily of personal attacks against that subject and there's no good revision to revert to, then the attack page should be deleted and an appropriate stub article should be written in its place.¨</blockquote><br />- This article/section talks about the information war (ie media coverage aspect of an information war), and therefore does not constitute a subject (person or entity) that could be subjected to personal attacks.<br /> --] (]) 17:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

			== This article is infringe the neutral point of view of Misplaced Pages ==
	==Renaming==
	Kostan1, please do not move this article without discussion and consensus.] (]) 02:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
	:You use pretty words, but baseless. ]. Without discussion or concensus? Don't coin new words. The name of the war is the 2008 South Ossetian war, because the war wasn't in a simply Georgian place, but in South Ossetia, a de-facto independent place. ] (]) 11:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

			https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
	::Moving an article ''during AfD discussion'' is inappropriate. Note that people suggested at least ''three'' different new names for this article during AfD, and you selected something that ''you'' like. ] (]) 17:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
			Please, rewrite this article in neutral form and provide all points of view.

			== External links modified ==
	:::Agree with Biophys, the controversial move of Konstan1 should be reverted ASAP. ] (])

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	::::Why did the title not fit the main article title "2008 South Ossetia War"? Surely this is an NPOV breach. Hence the initial move was a POV fork and Kostani was correcting this. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			I have just modified {{plural:1\|one external link\|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	:::::Konstant1 acted against WP procedures, including moves during AfD discussion and ]. The renaming should be discussed at the appropriate forum: this page or a "request to move". Two other already suggested titles were ] (more neutral) or ] (more specific). This should be debated and implemented per consensus.] (]) 20:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
			*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mil.ru/info/1069/details/index.shtml?id=49353
	::::::I acted against the concensus? ]. I actualy have done the concensus. And, not that it's important my nickname is Kostan and not Konstant, even though my name is Konstantin, but in the nickname I took the Russian slang for the name, which is Kostan. Hey, many didn't understand that and because of the ending of Kostan I already recived an Email to join WikiProject Armenia, which I would love to do if I would know more about those wonderful people. ] (]) 21:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
	::::::::People proposed ''three'' different titles, in addition to the existing one. You selected one of them and ''unilaterally'' moved this article ''twice'', ''during a deletion discussion''. This is called ].] (]) 21:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::::I did what that majority decided. Becides, you can't just change the name of the war because you feel like it. ] (]) 23:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::Shouldn't a forked section refer to the main article title as it stands. If South Ossetia is replaced with Georgian-Russian, surely it should be in the main article first. Otherwise it could lead to confusion, right? Russian disinformation seems a bit POV, IMHO--] (]) 21:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::] (more specific)?? Are you serious? It is clearly evident Biophys that you are intent on an anti-Russian POV in all articles regarding Russia which you edit with that title suggestion? For crying out loud, there is nothing in the article as it stands now that even suggests there was a deliberate and organised disinformation campaign on the part of the Russians, and your complete ignoring and white-washing of Georgian disinformation only shows your anti-Russian bias and intent to push your own POV in such articles. A renaming of the article to ], as it not allows you to attempt your own POV in the article, but it also allows those of us (the majority I hope) to pursue a more neutral and all-encompassing angle on the actual media coverage. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 15:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::::Sorry, but it was not me who suggested this title. Sure, it is more specific because it focuses only on the Russian side, and specifically on "disinformation" rather than media coverage in general. Those are simply different subjects. ''Both'' the "media coverage" and the "russian disinformation" articles can be created and cover different subjects.] (]) 16:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
	:::::::::::This article coveres a topic conected to a certain war, this war has a name, don't play with it. ] (]) 17:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

			When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx\|Sourcecheck}}).
	==Moving section back to main article after premature Content Fork==
	see ] --] (]) 17:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false}}
	:Yes (in response to removal of speedy note), the only appropriate deletion of this article would be to merge back to the main article in conformance with ]<br /> Therefore either AfD is removed, or POV fork is corrected which implies merging with main article.<br /> Therefore the speedy notice must be restored, and if a different reason (apart from the ineligible attack) exists for AfD it must be stated.

			Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 18:11, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
	Please, do not edit war, and if you want to place a notice then it must be stated why it was placed in the discussion page --] (]) 18:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==
	Note db:move was added by myself, and then removed by other editors. Since, what seemed a valid section fork to improve readability in the main article was first titled "Russian-Georgian war" instead of " 2008 South Ossetian war" which leads to obvious confusion. Also since a proper summary was then not made in the main article, and the section name was changed to "Media Coverage". Then the section was marked for deletion over attack policy, as if some editors wanted to remove the whole section from wikipedia as if it was irrelevant or some POV attack. Maybe my understanding is incorrect over policy? But this amounts to vandalism. --] (]) 20:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	::The title has been corrected to reflect current main article title. While a summary is to be written in the main article. So I am no longer alarmed over possible deletion of a whole noteworthy, to say the least, section. So I simply agree to keep this as a separate section. Since the main article is long, and the section is an extensive subject, so a move back would not be helpful in achieving readability --] (]) 21:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

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Archive 1 (2008)

moved from SO war

On August 10 Reuters reported that "a Reuters witness and the Georgian interior ministry" claimed an attack on the civilian Tbilisi International Airport. Later, Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Iakobashvili admitted that the attack had not taken place, stating, "There was no attack on the airport in Tbilisi. It was a factory that produces combat airplanes" (most likely referring to Tbliaviamsheni, a military avionics plant near Tbilisi).

"Jewish Georgian minister: Thanks to Israeli training, we're fending off Russia". Haaretz. Retrieved 2008-08-11.

This could be added to the article here. --Xeeron (talk) 22:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

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Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

This article is infringe the neutral point of view of Misplaced Pages

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view Please, rewrite this article in neutral form and provide all points of view.

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