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== List-defined refs ==


Hi, can anyone explain to me why does not fix the ref name error at ref 507? Thanks, ] (]) 19:02, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
== MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer ==

Would there be any objections if I were to create this particular MediaWiki: page? Examples of its use can be seen on Meta and Wikisource (see bottom of and ) &mdash;<strong>]</strong>] 08:56, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:I want it I want it I want it!! <font color="forestgreen">]</font>‑<font color="darkorange">]</font> 20:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
::'''YES!''' Interestingly enough I was just thinking about this too after my recent editing on WB. - '''] (])''' 07:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

:Nicely done. :) Is there a particular reason ] and ] use different images and css attributes? In particular, ] (38px) and ] (40px)... and the tables themselves seem to render with ''slightly'' different widths, on my browser. I favor consistency, but have no particular preference regarding which style we keep. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">] (])</span> 10:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

::Luna Santin: You are right. I'll update both to use our standard MediaWiki message box styles, thus they will look like the ]. With 100% width, standard light grey background and so on.
::I have coded up examples in my user space at ]. I don't know which image to choose. I am leaning towards the Misplaced Pages logo (it looks good), or the icon tools image (since it says more about what content the boxes have).
::'''Note!''' In my examples I also suggest a slight change in the ] box. (The ''"This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons"'' box.)
::--] (]) 22:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Interesting. I definitely appreciate the consistency. As far as images, I believe I would personally favor ] or ] (though I believe you mentioned you liked ] previously, which is also fine with me) -- they hint nicely as to the box's contents, as you said. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">] (])</span> 09:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Based on the two of us it seems the ] is the choice. But I think we need some more users to look at this. So please, can more people take a look at ] and comment here?
::::--] (]) 06:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: I also prefer this icon; it matches the purpose of the links much better. I'd certainly prefer not to see the Misplaced Pages logo. ], <small>]</small> 12:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there any way I can add the template to the bottom of my user page? Thanks! ] (]) 22:12, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

:SharkD: I see that you answered yourself by making the template {{tl|sp-contributions-footer}}.
:Everyone: I think I have found a much better image to use for these boxes: ] ]
:Perhaps we should use a more colourful version of that image, but you get the idea. But these boxes are interface messages so perhaps it is good that the image looks a bit neutral. See my example boxes at ] to see how it looks in the boxes.
:--] (]) 08:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

::I really think that "IP user" should be substituted for the three places that "anonymous user" appears, as everyone should know that most user names are far more anonymous than IP addresses. ] (]) 17:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, I agree with the ''IP user'' 199.125.109.90, it is time we get rid of the misnomer "anonymous user" for the not logged in users.
:::--] (]) 17:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

::::The term "IP user" is terrible. It's incomprehensible jargon to practically anyone on the planet. Call them "unregistered users". —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 15:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::Not specific enough. IP user is fine, and it is well explained. It's not something that would ever be used out of context. I know I would much rather be referred to as an IP user than as an un-something. ] (]) 15:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::IP user is not "well explained". It's incomprehensible unless you happen to be one of the tiny technical elite who knows what an ] is, and even then it's incomprehensible unless you realize that MediaWiki names unregistered users by IP address (which is unheard of for web software). —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 02:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
: I like the new image; I don't mind the discreet blue colour (actually, I think I like it), and I agree that the image should look neutral. In the sandbox I notice two additional new suggestions... As I've said, I prefer this icon to one with more colour (in this case, the one wearing a red tie). As far as the black one is concerned, I get the meaning ("shady" members), but I don't think it will be appreciated much, and it stands out too much anyway.
: Although I ''might'' consider it if it were stroking a white Persian cat. ], <small>]</small> 22:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

::As most of you probably have already noticed: I have changed to the "user info" image I show above for all the related MediaWiki messages.
::Waltham: Yeah, the black one looks scary. I bet some would like it for IP users! :)) The two coloured images were the only related ready made ones I could find on Commons. I have tried with softer green versions on my own computer, but didn't upload them since they didn't look as good as the grey-blue one we are using now.
::Simetrical and 199.125.109.64: Both "IP user" and "unregistered user" sounds right to me. Both are way better than "anonymous user". I think we need input from more users to decide which one is best. '''So people, which do you prefer: ''"IP user"'' or ''"unregistered user"'' or something else?'''
::--] (]) 11:15, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I prefer IP user as it is both shorted and as 199.125.109.64 (I think) pointed out, ''un''registered could be seen as negative. —Atyndall <sup>&#91;''] ]''&#93;</sup> 11:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I am being pedantic about semantics, but maybe use "editor" rather than "user". All editors are users, but not all users are editors (some are just readers), and there is no purpose in having "IP user contributions" for IP readers-only. — ] <small>( ] • ] • ] )</small> 11:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:Twas Now has a point there. Here are the first sentence of the message with the different namings. Version 0 being the old message:
::0: ''This is the contributions page for an anonymous user, identified by the user's numerical IP address.''
::1: ''This is the contributions page for an IP user, identified by the user's numerical IP address.''
::2: ''This is the contributions page for an unregistered user, identified by the user's numerical IP address.''
::3: ''This is the contributions page for an IP editor, identified by the editor's numerical IP address.''
::4: ''This is the contributions page for an unregistered editor, identified by the editor's numerical IP address.''
:I think I prefer versions 1 and 2, but I am okay with 3 and 4 too. To me ''"user"'' sounds more friendly and welcoming than ''"editor"''. By the way, since these footer boxes are very visible I think that the naming we use in them is likely to become the standard naming we use here at Misplaced Pages.
:--] (]) 15:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:: I have no preference, but I'd like to make two observations:
::* ''IP user''/''editor'' is more educational, as it makes the connection with ''IP address'' and shows the Wikipedian in question what an IP user/editor is without having to be a nerd or read any help pages.
::* As far as Twas Now's point is concerned, he is right in that only those IP addresses with edits are relevant here, so it makes no sense to refer to plain readers in the toolbox. Furthermore, I think we can say that ''editor'' is a title automatically bestowed on anyone who's made an edit, not least because the two words are obviously related.
::** On the other hand, since only those who have made edits will have a contributions page (where the toolbox at the bottom appears), the IP user in question cannot be a plain reader anyway. The "this is the contributions page of an IP/anonymous user" message would only appear for editors, who do belong to the category of IP users.
:: Full circle. :-) ], <small>]</small> 13:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::So glad Version 0 is getting looked at. I much prefer "IP editor" to any other option."Hey look, you're already an editor. ]". Seriously, it is much more personal, friendly and instructive than "IP user" (my second choice). Hopefully affording us the title will rub off on both IPs and those registered. Dream the dream. ] (]) 02:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC) <small>is pimping his ]</small>
:::User is standard terminology on Misplaced Pages. Note: User:Dream, User:Duke, User:David. If Misplaced Pages had been using ] then IP editor would be appropriate. Since WP uses ], then it should be IP user for consistency. ] (]) 06:31, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Advanced search is hard to find ==

I did not notice right away, but ''']''' is at the bottom of the regular sidebar search results. Could a link to "advanced search" be put in the sidebar of all pages?

Or at the very least, at the TOP of the regular sidebar search results too, and not just at the bottom. --] (]) 23:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hitting the "Search" button (next to the "Go" button) takes you to that page; a link already ''is'' on every page. ] <span style="color: #999;">// ] // ] //</span> 13:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks, but very few people know that, I believe. I have been editing Misplaced Pages almost 3 years and have over 14,000 edits and did not know that until now. I have always entered a search term or phrase and then clicked either button. I don't remember clicking either the "go" or the "search" button without entering search terms. Or it was so rare that I did not remember where it sent me too.

::Most of the time I use the Google toolbar to search the Misplaced Pages site anyway: the "Search only the current Web site" button. I would have liked to have used the advanced search more since there is more specificity in what it can search for in some cases. But I disliked the extra steps I had to take to hunt up the bookmark. So this is good to know. Many other people would probably like to know this.

::No offense, but nerds who work a lot in an area (for example the Misplaced Pages sidebar and interface), tend to lose sight of how others perceive that area. They don't realize how unintuitive some things are. I have my areas I focus on in nerdlike fashion, and fresh perspectives have been very helpful at times. --] (]) 16:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

* Just to say I '''second''' the suggestion to add a ] link somewhere in the sidebar ("toolbox", I guess). ] (]) 21:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, good idea to put it in the "toolbox" section of the sidebar of wikipedia pages. I hope it is named "Advanced search" since that is a search tool name people are familiar with. So the link could be in this form: ]. That is also the name used on the submit button on that search page. --] (]) 21:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, I too would like an ] link in the toolbox since I want to be able to right click it and choose "Open link in new tab", and I can't do that with the button.
::--] (]) 00:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:::If this doesn't get implemented generally, anyone who wants it can easily do it with personal javascript. ] 01:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:If whatever you search for doesn't exist, the "Advanced search" thing is at the bottom of the search results page. <font face="Broadway">]]</font> 01:47, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
::Yes, the OP said that in his first sentence. The issue is whether it should be more visible. ] 01:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Best solution would be to make the word "search" (above the search box) link to ] rather than adding it to the bullet list. — ] 17:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hmm. I was wondering why there were 2 buttons, one labeled "Go" and one labeled "Search". I think one of them could be removed. Then a simple link labeled "Advanced search" could be put in its place. A link, not a button. A link can be right-clicked as David Göthberg suggested, and the advanced search page can be opened up in a new tab. I dislike having to open it over the original existing page. That wastes bandwidth and time if I have to go back to the original page. --] (]) 18:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

They serve different purposes. "Go" (a.k.a. "I'm feeling lucky") loads a page with a title exactly matching your input, if one exists, and "Search" will give you a list of pages containing text similar to your input. I'm just suggesting that we change the text above the sarch box from:
<pre>
<h5><label for="searchInput">Search</label></h5>
</pre>
to
<pre>
<h5><label for="searchInput"><a href="/Special:Search" title="Advanced search">Search</a></label></h5>
</pre>
— ] 18:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:OK. That would work. Not sure that everyone will understand that the box below the link is not for advanced search though. But this idea of putting the "Advanced search" link just above the search box is much better than before. --] (]) 01:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

::Oh dear no! The ] explicitly states that section headings in articles "]", since most editors think that is ugly. So please don't link the box headings in the interface. Also, renaming that box heading to "Advanced search" would be misleading about the box content, and not renaming it would be misleading about what the link means.
::The advanced search is mostly for us editors who want to search other name spaces. (Well, and for experienced readers who want to right click and open a new tab.) So put the link in the toolbox. There are plenty of vertical space in our sidebar, since most pages are far longer than the boxes in the sidebar. (And I have a very slow computer but loading and rendering some extra text is no problem, so it's not a performance issue either.)
::And keep both the and buttons. They are both useful and I have seen my non-geek friends use them and understand them without problems.
::--] (]) 12:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I can only hope your appeal to the MOS is a sarcastic one. — ] 15:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::::OK. Maybe if the "Advanced search" link was put at the top of the "interaction" section then it would be close enough to the search box to be noticed right away by people who want to do a search. Or better yet, put the link at the bottom of the search box below the "go" and "search" buttons. --] (]) 16:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::CharlotteWebb: No, I don't use sarcasm. I know the MOS doesn't apply to anything but articles. But it is still a good reference for what many Wikipedians think is good style.
:::::Timeshifter: You got a point that it would be nice if the ] link is put somewhere close to the search buttons. I tried it in my image editor and it doesn't look that good in the search box (below the search buttons). So I suggest either at the top of the "interaction" menu, or perhaps more fitting at the bottom of the "navigation" menu. (And adding it to any of those two menus is just a simple edit to ], while adding it to the search box is probably more complex.)
:::::--] (]) 19:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::The sole commonality is the coincidental use of a <tt>&lt;h&gt;</tt> html tag for each, so comparisons are tenuous at best. — ] 16:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::Yes, the bottom of the navigation menu sounds good. Search is definitely a navigation tool. And the "Advanced search" link would be directly adjacent to the search box. I have another problem. When I enter a search term into the search box the popup suggestion box that drops down covers the "go" and "search" buttons. This makes it almost impossible to actually do a search! So putting the "advanced search" link above the search box is better. This allows people to go some place where they can do a less-encumbered search. --] (]) 02:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:Timeshifter: When you type in a word and don't want to do an actual search instead of just clicking one of the alternatives that pop up in the drop-down list, then all you have to do is to click anywhere outside the box (on the page) to close the drop-down list, then you can click "Search". The word you typed will still be in the text field.
:Everyone: It seems most of us want to have a link to ] in the sidebar, and that some of us think the best place is at the bottom in the "navigation" menu. So I will add it there now.
:--] (]) 03:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks! ] (]) 03:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:::{{tick|18}} '''Done''' - The ] is now in the "navigation" menu in the sidebar. If you don't see it on a page you visit and feel impatient then you can ] the page. About a week from now all pages will have timed out in the cache and will have re-rendered and then everyone (including IP users) will see the ] link on all pages.
:::--] (]) 04:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Thanks! I see it. Is there a way to make the dropdown menu (the one with search suggestions) open up so that it doesn't cover up the "go" and "search" buttons. Maybe make it open up a little to the right? Also, could the search results for regular searches open up in a new tab? --] (]) 07:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:Is there a way to add hotlinks for some of the more advanced function, like there is on edit pages? Or, at least provide a short key/legend? ] (]) 04:13, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

::Which advanced functions? —] 04:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I have to say I '''oppose''' this addition. So far I saw two arguments:
#some users never find advanced search fieldset. Solution: add a jumping-down <nowiki>]</nowiki> shortcut to ] which is displayed above search result
#some users need a direct link to advanced search. Solution: a bookmark in your browser.
By the way, a little tip: if you want to search in one particular namespace, just type it as a prefix, e.g. typing "wp:apple" and clicking "Search" will look for "apple" in "Misplaced Pages:" namespace. —] 04:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:SharkD: I don't know what you meant by "hotlinks". But do you mean that on the ] page you want to add some more explanations how it works? I looked around and there is at least the ] which seems to be the message that is placed at the top of ], so seems we can add more text easily.
:--] (]) 04:32, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

::Maybe the question was about insertable characters (aka edittools)? Certainly possible as a ]. —] 04:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:::AlexSm: Your first suggestion above is good. I checked the rendered page code and there is an id at the advanced search box at the bottom of the page, so yes, we can add an anchor link from the message at the top of the page.
:::Your second suggestion does not help people who read or edit from public computers. And does not help people who don't know the link ] in the first place.
:::Your third suggestion does not help the millions of people who don't read this Village pump page.
:::--] (]) 04:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Yes, I want more of an explanation of how it works on the search page itself (a terse cheat-sheet with examples should suffice). And possibly the insertable characters like can be found on the edit pages. ] (]) 05:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

===Benefit to readers?===
I don't see the benefit to non-editors. The only people who really care about namespaces other than the main namespace are editors. If I was a casual reader and saw "advanced search", I would assume it was actually more advanced than the normal search in a way that actually matters to me. It's not. --- ] 23:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:I tend to agree, the "Advanced search" isn't really useful for non-editors. In fact, calling it "Advanced search" at all is somewhat misleading. All it does is search namespaces that aren't the default one, or what you have set in your preferences, other than that its the same search, it really doesn't give any advanced options like or . The only real advanced options (Boolean search and category intersections) are available via the normal interface. <font face="Broadway">]]</font> 23:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::The most beneficial feature for readers is the ability to search Misplaced Pages using Google. ] 23:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Is 'Random article' truly random? ==

I've been meaning to ask this for the last couple years; the 'Random article' algorithm isn't really random, is it? If I click it, say, 50 times, I get several communes in France, but no villages elsewhere. Or I might get several articles on genes, but no athletes. The next day, the situation might be reversed. The likelihood of this happening is very low, so I'm thinking it uses an article's ID number (given to it when it was created?), and since there are clusters of articles are created by bots in a short period of time, one draws "too many" from one these clusters. Please, don't comment on probability unless you happen to know the algorithm 'Random article' uses. Thanks, ] (]) 04:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:Every article is assigned a random number between 0 and 1 when it is created (these are indexed in SQL, which is what makes selection fast). When you click random article it generates a target random number and then returns the article whose recorded random number is closest to this target. Any clustering by content that you think you see is purely in the eye of the beholder. ] (]) 04:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::] - '''] (])''' 04:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:::In simple English, it's not totally random, but it's not biased towards anything in particular. --] (]) 05:09, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Or rather, it ''is'' biased, but randomly so, if that makes sense. For example. if you had three total articles, and they were randomly assigned the numbers .5 .51 and .49, you would see the latter two far far more often. <span>] <sup>]</sup></span> 21:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::It actually picks a random number and then chooses the page whose preselected random number is the closest one ''greater'' than the random number chosen. In the event that there's no suitable number found (if the random number is larger than all page_random values), it wraps around to the lowest values since {{rev|21371}}. This is no less random, but more efficient from a database point of view. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 13:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I've tested this and it seems to choose the one with the lower <tt>page_id</tt> if the <tt>page_random</tt> values are equal, which isn't implausible on large projects (see ]). — ] 17:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
:I got the same article again when I re-randomed a few days ago (I set up the kids' browser with a random article as home page). At one point it was set to reject RamBot articles, as they made up too large a % of the article count. ''] ]'', 01:57 ] ] (GMT).
::But Rich, that's our most reliable content... <sob> — ] 02:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:page_random is a double, which in MySQL apparently means 53 precision bits. The birthday paradox implies that you'd need on the order of sqrt(n) different articles to cause a collision, instead of the order of n. In our case, this should mean on the order of 2<sup>25.5</sup>, or about 47 million articles, before you'd expect a collision. This is very rough reasoning, and is possibly off by an order of magnitude, but there are likely going to be few if any collisions even for quite large numbers of articles, even with the birthday paradox. This is good, because if two pages share page_random, one will never turn up using the random page feature ― although it's not like that cycles through all pages anyway, so it hardly matters.<p>Anyway, the actual sorting order is undefined when page_randoms are equal. Since pages will normally be added to the index in the order of page_id, it's quite likely that the database will store the page with the lowest page_id first in the index leaf, and will then incidentally return it first when it needs to return the first result with that page_random. Depending on implementation, it could also easily be in descending page_id order, or could randomly alternate between orders. There are probably cases in InnoDB where the higher page_id will be returned. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 22:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
::2<sup>53</sup> seems to be about 9 x 10<sup>15</sup> but I only saw 12 decimal places (using ]), so maybe my test was flawed by copying and pasting a truncated value (oops?). — ] 15:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Any conversion to decimal will probably lose precision in at least some cases. phpMyAdmin is probably truncating it. In any event, I did find a few thousand page_random collisions on enwiki, so my estimate was somewhat high (but not drastically). I didn't expect it to be good to within more than about an order of magnitude, and it was less than an order of magnitude higher than the number of pages enwiki has, so that's no surprise. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 00:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Hmm, it may be helpful to check for collisions like this every month or so and assign them new values for <tt>page_random</tt> so that they have a non-zero chance of being seen. — ] 13:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::No point in doing it every month, it should be at page creation. But there's not really much point in it. No page has a significant chance of being seen anyway. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 21:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Picture of the Day templates ==

Two parts: is there a way to make {{tl|POTD}} and {{tl|POTD commons}} display in a similar manner? I can find no way to put them next each other and not have it look weird.

Also, would it be at all easy/possible to create templates that show the Pictures of the Day for other language WP projects, such as ] (which, btw, is an awesome name)? As far as I can tell, there are 14 PsOTD total, it would be nice to make a dynamic gallery of them. ~ ''']''' 07:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
{{User:Emil76/test4|float=right|thumb=yes|title=yes}}
:I once made a template to display the {{tl|POTD}} in the same way as POTD commons (which uses the layout that is also used on Commons for this). You can see the code at ]. To display it in the way shown here use: <tt><nowiki>{{User:Emil76/test4|float=right|thumb=yes|title=yes}}</nowiki></tt>. Ofcourse you may also copy this template to your own usernamespace. ] (]) 07:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Move problem ==

Why can't I move ] to ]? When I try to do so it says "the title '2004 Summer Paralympics medal table' is protected from being created", but the shows nothing. When I first tried this there was no article at the "medal table" title, so I tried creating a redirect there. It worked, so it's obviously not protected against creation. But I still get the same error message when I try to move the "medal count" article over the redirect. — ] 20:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

:This appears to be a persistent problem. I have come across the problem today with ], which was "protected against creation", but I was able to create a redirect. ] (]) 19:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::And, again at ]. ] (]) 03:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

]. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 08:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

:Any idea which particular line on the blacklist is causing the problems? I couldn't see any, but then I'm not all that familiar with regexps. — ] 15:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Template limits ==

I'm still trying to wrap my head around ] (the first link therein is now ]). The threads seem to revolve around ], although I can't seem to find a page where template limits were exceeded.

So if anyone has a trusty hacksaw to get through this, here are my questions:
* Template load is a server-side issue, right? A dial-up vs. DSL user will see exactly the same lag time to serve the page, i.e. the final HTML served up is precisely the same size regardless of whether there are 700 {{tl|convert}} templates on the page or 700 instances of plain-text imperial-metric conversions - correct?
* And why do we care about server-side load for any given page? Doesn't the HTML version get cached by the squid servers? After the page is served up once after the most recent edit, does it matter any longer whether there were 77,000 templates on the page?

Thanks for any enlightenment! ] (]) 21:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

:And let me hedge that a bit. If {{tl|convert}} is adding bluelinks to the units, it will produce a longer page; also if it was adding CSS styles (which it doesn't), the page would be longer. Other than that though? ] (]) 21:46, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

::Right, the output from {{tl|convert}} takes up the same number of bytes in the rendered web page as if the conversion was typed in by hand. So it doesn't matter for the web browser that downloads and views the page. And it also doesn't cost more bandwidth for Misplaced Pages to send out onto the Internet.
::The reason we sometimes care about server-side load is that this isn't just about one page, this is about a template. The convert template internally uses several subtemplates that have to be fetched from the database each time it is rendered. And the convert template is used on ]. And it is often used many times per page. And each page is not just rendered once after the last edit, it is re-rendered once a week (if it gets visitors, otherwise it is not re-rendered). That's a lot of rendering work.
::I am not a dev so I don't know exactly how to interpret the "NewPP limit report" comment that the serves put in the rendered XHTML pages. (Try the "view page source" or similar menu option in your web browser and find the "NewPP limit report" in the source of the page.) But it seems to me that doing one single conversion like for instance {{tlc|convert|18|°C|°F}} costs about five times more than rendering an {{tl|ambox}}. (I would say that the ambox is a medium complex template.)
::But in spite of all that, I don't think we should worry. After all {{tlf|convert}} isn't ''that'' expensive. (It is surprisingly efficient considering how versatile it is.)
::--] (]) 22:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's purely a server-side issue. But no, it's not always going to be served from cache. It will only be served from cache if someone else with the exact same parser-affecting settings as you has viewed it within the cache expiry period, ''and'' it hasn't been changed since then. In practice, 90%+ of page views are served from Squid and don't ever hit MediaWiki at all, and a large percentage of the remainder hit the parser cache ― but that's dominated by anonymous users. Logged-in users will see much lower parser cache hit rates, since it needs to store separate copies for separate date formats, separate redlink formats, separate stub thresholds, etc. Chances are good that a typical user will often be viewing pages following links from watchlists, for instance ― so you're viewing it very shortly after the last change was made, and odds are poor that someone else has seen it aside from you.

So basically, even though it's server-side, it will affect rendering time for a significant minority of page views. Before the template limits were put in place, some pages were taking well over ten seconds to render. Even with the limits, ] takes something like 15 seconds from the time I click the link to when the page starts to render, and the bulk of that is probably parsing time. With no limits on template complexity, it would be easy for careless users to create pages that take minutes to render. Such pages have been created even ''with'' the template limits. It's this latency that's the compelling reason for the limits, not so much the fact that it will increase server load. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 23:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

:''Separate copies for separate date formats, separate redlink formats, separate stub thresholds, etc.'' ← Wow... Any chance some of the more esoteric user-settings can be migrated client-side? — ] 14:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::In particular, I have been wondering if it would be possible to migrate date formatting to the client... which would permit IP users to set date preferences via a cookie. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 19:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:::For "stub thresholds" I would guess that caching one copy and hiding the byte count somewhere in the html of each link (letting the client's js/css/whatever decide what to do with it) would be more efficient than caching separate copies for a wide variety of thresholds (as nobody seems to agree what the proper limit is). — ] 13:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Confirmation ==

I suggest that there be a confirmation message that appears when a user is not signed in and trying to edit, to confirm with the user that he/she wants to edit without signing in. -- ] (]) 03:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:There is:
::You are not currently logged in. Editing this way will cause your IP address to be recorded publicly in this page's edit history. If you create an account, you can conceal your IP address and be provided with many other benefits. Messages sent to your IP can be viewed on your talk page.
::
::Please do not save test edits. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox.
:] (]) 03:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I was suggesting a more noticeable popup message. -- ] (]) 03:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::::It's a nice idea, but for those who choose to edit anonymously (and there are some people who have racked up enough Misplaced Pages experience to be admin material while on an IP address) it would get infuriating in a very short time. ]<small>(])</small> 04:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::How about making that message a bit more noticeable? A border or lightly colored background? <span style="font-family: Verdana">]</span> 04:28, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it's a balance between trying to get people who have inadvertently logged out to notice that they're logged out and scaring would-be anonymous contributors with a large notice about how they're not logged in. --] (]) 05:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

One possible solution is to make your personal logged-in experience a bit different, so you can immediately notice when you're logged out. For example, <code>#wpSave {background:#77CC77}</code> in ] should make your "Save" button green. —] 05:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

] ]] 10:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:Ok, how about this: The same message that already exists will ''not'' pop up in a popup message, but it should be underneath the 3 buttons: '''Save Page''', '''Show preview''', and '''Show changes'''. The message should be highlighted in a noticable color. -- ] (]) 20:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, we already had this discussion: ]. And there were some good suggestions there. Some might even be good as gadgets. -- <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] </font> ] 21:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the information -- ] (]) 21:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

How about having a different default skin color for logged in editors vs. editors who are not logged in? <font face="Comic sans">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 22:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Gadgets don't work for anons. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 08:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Proposal: create ] ==

I propose that ] be created and serve as a central location for discussing this file. A page exists for ] and probably other JS files as well. ] (]) 04:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see why you would want to create a useless and misleading "local system message" to discuss internal ] file. On the other hand, a separate discussion place somewhere on ] or ] might make sense, provided that you advertise it on ], ], etc. —] 05:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::Well, there's nothing about the title of the proposed page that screams to me, "local system message!" However, if there is an existing benchmark for these sorts of things, then an alternative proposal would be appreciated. ] (]) 05:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::All «MediaWiki:...» pages are local ] by definition, so creating ] would give some users the wrong idea that this file can be changed just for English Misplaced Pages. —] 05:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Ah! I see! For some reason I thought ] linked to a page on ] (i.e., an interwiki link). ] (]) 05:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Issues with date formatting/sorting (described ) might be a good reason to make this file editable on a per-language wiki basis. ] (]) 06:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there enough discussion outside of bugzilla to warrant the creation of talk pages for all files that fall under this category? Some of them? Lots of them? I'd rather see a systematic change than see a single talk page orphaned somewhere in space... ] (]) 04:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

We have a general discussion forum for software changes. It's called <tt>wikitech-l</tt>. It does not make sense to have discussion pages for <tt>wikibits.js</tt>, unless we also have them for <tt>User.php</tt>, <tt>Title.php</tt>, and so on. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 08:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Article sub-pages ==

Can pages in article space have subpages (such as ]), or are the forward slashes automatically converted into textual data? ] (]) 04:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:No real subpages in the mainspace, sorry. Subpage-enabled namespaces are marked as such . <span style="font-family: Verdana">]</span> 04:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::You can use slashes fine, it's just that the result is not considered a subpage. More info: ], ]. —] 05:05, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I see that "hierarchical organisation of articles is discouraged." I was thinking this might be useful in cases where articles are too long, but the "split" articles don't meet notability requirements, and are instead supposed to inherit the notability of the parent article. Oh well. ] (]) 05:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Years ago, this feature was enabled in the main namespace, and in Misplaced Pages's early years, it was a common way of organising information, but it led to awkward titles and the creation of article forks written from a particular POV, so it was decided to abandon the subpages system. ] '']'' 08:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Do you have an example of an article where you believe "notability" is a concern? — ] 14:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::Not off the top of my head. But I remember the issue being brought up a couple of times in WikiProject Video games and in AfD discussions. ] (]) 03:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::It seems there's a ] on the topic. ] (]) 04:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Let me rephrase that, do you have any examples of sub-pages, or distinct topics begging to be split onto separate pages, which may be in need of a more canonical title? — ] 13:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::You may want to take the issue to the discussion page I linked to (also, see ). I haven't been following along, but the whole point of the discussion seems to revolve around whether some articles may inherit the notability of the parent topic (or, rather, whether rules can be bent in some cases). I don't particularly like the idea, but I am suggesting that sub-articles may potentially constitute a separate class (i.e., not a "real", self-contained article) where this is the case. ] (]) 16:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Even if there was a consensus to use file-directory style titles, I don't see how the "notability" guideline would be interpreted differently. On the other hand "notability guidelines and common sense" go together about as well as "water and oil", "vinegar and baking soda", or "bleach and ammonia" (as opposed to "fish and chips", "peaches and creme", or "vodka and orange juice"), so really g-d knows what would happen in that case. Seriously though would this mean ] would be under "United States/Religion/Christianity" or under "Christianity/Places/United States", or under something else I haven't thought of? — ] 16:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:*Denoting subpages by using backslashes is ponderous and unecessary. I am not a database expert, but my understanding is that the hierarchical taxonomy being described by having subpages (e.g. ]) is already dealt with by categories such as ]. In my view, the proposal to have subpages is just a thinly veiled attempt to assert that a subject without ] inhertits notabiility from a more notable subject, ].--] (]) 09:28, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::In this particular case ] would probably be preferable. — ] 13:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't quite see the connection in what you're saying. The existence of the article, ] (the play, not the character), does not lend itself to the categorization scheme you suggest. I.e., placing the ] article in ] isn't particularly sensible. ] (]) 16:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Alright so maybe you mean to use ] instead of ], ], ], ], or ]. I don't see how this would make things any easier or why anyone would expect it to have any effect on "notability" guidelines. — ] 16:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:One area where I could see such a thing used is in List-type articles. They're not really articles (they have no prose, and don't explain anything), yet they have some encyclopedic value. For instance, a list of things in Topic X could appear in ]. However, I wouldn't want to see this done, either. I'd rather see a separate namespace be used for lists (I think this would be a good idea) than resorting to this option. ] (]) 19:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Proposal: add "my sandbox" link to top navbar ==

I propose that a "my sandbox" link be added to the top navbar, in between "my talk" and "my preferences". This might encourage users to work on articles in their sandbox before moving them to article space. ] (]) 04:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:Perhaps a Gadget? --] (]) 06:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, that would work too. Still, I'd like it if it were considered for all registered users. ] (]) 06:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
x
:::This would be a very good feature for all users. I like the placement of the link that SharkD suggests, between "my talk" and "my preferences". And I like the suggested name "my sandbox".
:::It should ''not'' be a gadget since this is exactly for the kind of users who still probably have no idea what a gadget is. Instead we can make a gadget to turn off the link for those who don't want/need it anymore.
:::We should probably make it so the sandbox link isn't red. (For instance by using ] instead of ].)
:::What page name should the sandbox have?
:::* ]
:::* ]
:::* ]
:::* ]
:::That is, upper or lower case first character? And should we name it "/Test1" to make it clear that one can make more test pages? (When I tell people to ''"Please try it in ] first"'' then I link them to ].) On the other hand, that "/Test1" link kind of gets wrong once one has more test pages, so simply "/sandbox" is perhaps more timeless? For "/Test1" I have a slight preference for upper case. While for "/sandbox" I have a slight preference for lower case since that is our standard naming for template sandboxes.
:::This feature could also be good for IP users. But we perhaps need to think a bit about where the IP user's sandbox should be placed.
:::--] (]) 11:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Perhaps IP users should just be pointed to THE ] with logged-in users pointed to their own?
::::{{unsigned|Clubjuggle|12:23, 28 August 2008}}

:::::I agree with Sharks' original proposal and second Clubjuggle's IP suggestion - ] (]) 12:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::I agree with directing IPs to THE sandbox. I disagree with ] in that I don't think that the links need to be forced into blue links. Both the user and user talk pages start out as red links for newly-joined users until they actually get around to creating these pages. The same can be true for user sandboxes. ] (]) 13:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::::I think /Sandbox (upper case) would be fine. A custom message could appear there when starting the page describing how to create multiple (and sub-hierarchical) sandboxes, kind of how a custom message appears before creating any other aritcle. ] (]) 14:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:There are some of us who have multiple sandboxes or other subpages. I have a couple of pages of notes for articles I want to create or develop, and several I use to test templates or tables. --—<i><b>—&nbsp;]<font color = "darkblue">&nbsp;<sup>]</sup></font></b> - </i> 12:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::Gadget850: Well, there's nothing preventing you from having more sandboxes, and even from putting a link list on your "my sandbox" page to your other sandboxes and test pages. :)
::Everyone: Linking IP users to ] might be a slight problem. Since already now that sandbox gets so frequently edited that I think those poor newbies must get edit conflicts all the time. But since we probably will be adding the "sandbox" link using javascript, then we can make it so it points to many different sandboxes. For instance we could have say 32 different sandboxes. (And we can increase that later if needed.) But we shouldn't choose the sandbox randomly, since the same user will expect to see the same sandbox the next time he/she visits it. So we could use the first byte in the user's IP address to choose which sandbox to use. That means the same user will usually see the same sandbox even when he visits some time later, since usually only the lower bytes in the IP address changes between sessions. I think that should be a no-brainer for our javascript coders to fix.
::--] (]) 13:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::Take a look at my sandbox page: ]. It serves more as a directory for all my ''other'' sandbox pages, which are stored as sub-pages under the main sandbox page. ] (]) 13:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Where are we going to put the sandbox link for IPs? ] 13:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:The link could go in the same place, but direct to the wiki sandbox. ] (]) 13:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Simple JS implementation:
<pre style="overflow: scroll;">
addOnloadHook(function () {
addPortletLink('p-personal', wgArticlePath.replace("$1", "Special:Mypage/Sandbox"), 'My sandbox', 'pt-sandbox', 'Your personal sandbox', null, document.getElementById('pt-preferences'));
});
</pre>
Of course, if we added it to the sidebar instead, we could do it ]. —] <small>(])</small> 14:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:I think it would be great to have a "my sandbox" or (for (IP editors) a "sandbox" link on the navbar. I don't think it's so critical to explain to editors how to create multiple subpages; I'd much prefer the message box that shows up (when someone clicks on the red link) to simply explain that this is a personal subpage for testing of editing, with a link to ] for those who might be interested. But that's just details to be worked out later; the core concept seems really good.

:As for IP editors, having their "sandbox" link go to one of 100+ sandboxes, depending on the first block in the IP address, has pluses and minuses. On the plus side, it minimizes edit conflicts that occur when lots of people are editing the standard sandbox simultaneously; on the minus side, it means that the bot or bots doing the cleanup need to cover 100+ pages. But again, I think this is a secondary issue; it would be great to be able to tell IP editors to just click the "sandbox" link at the top of their screen rather than provide them with a link to ], and I think there is a reasonable chance that we'd have fewer "test" edits on real pages if there was a "sandbox" link visible at the top of screens. And maybe we'd even get a few more people to realize that they ''can'' edit Misplaced Pages. (On a lot of other wikis, if you click the "edit" tab, you just get a message saying that you have to log in first to edit.) -- <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] </font> ] 21:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::John Broughton: Right, the IP user sandboxes needs to be cleaned regularly by a bot, just like the current ]. And I can imagine there are cases when an admin has to delete the sandbox to get rid of especially nasty stuff from the edit history of the sandbox. And that was why I suggested using a fairly low number of such sandboxes. And by the way, I suggest naming them ] and so on.
::Ilmari Karonen: Right, we could put the link in the sidebar. Although I think this is an important enough feature that it should probably be put on the navbar at the top of the page. (SharkD's original suggestion above.)
::Ilmari and our other javascript experts: Does javascript have access to the IP user's name or IP number so we can use it to pick which sandbox to send the IP user?
::--] (]) 18:38, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:::] seems to work just fine for anon users (lower case is better IMHO, in the same form as skinname.css/js) --] (]) 08:04, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::@David Göthberg: JavaScript has no way of finding a user's IP address alone - one has to use server-side code (i.e. PHP) or (ugh) a Java applet. <span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt;">] <span style="font-size: 7pt;">] ]</span></span> 04:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:Splarka: Yes, ] works for IP users too. But that would mean after a year or so we would have perhaps a million IP user sandboxes, some of which might hold pretty nasty content. And some search engines do index all pages on Misplaced Pages...
:x42bn6: Ouch, seems you are right. I checked around, the "wgUserName" javascript variable is only filled in for logged in users. And since those variables are set in the rendered page header it would probably destroy the squid caching if the user name (IP number) of IP users were set in the page header. So for now it seems our best option is to direct the "]" link for IP users to ].
:For the logged in users I prefer we use lower case "/sandbox" for the "]" link. Since as Splarka mentioned above, we already use lower case for the user's own ] and ]. And we use lower case for the now standardised subpages for templates such as "/doc", "/sandbox" and "/testcases".
:Then after some weeks if people like these things then I suggest we request the making of a special page named ] that links to Special:Mypage/sandbox for logged in users and to a numbered public sandbox for IP users. But let's leave that aside for now.
:Since all comments above have been so positive I think we can declare a consensus to do this. The only thing that remains is to decide on upper case or lower case "/Sandbox" or "/sandbox". (Sorry to be picky about this, but we can not change that spelling later since then a lot of users will have a problem to find their old /sandbox.)
:--] (]) 15:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

::I am not even a javascript programmer, but I have figured out how we can do the numbered sandboxes for the IP users: When a new user visits we can randomly assign one of the numbered sandboxes, and then store the result in a javascript cookie. Then if the user comes back an hour later we can assign the same sandbox to that user. Of course, if the user has set his browser to clear cookies between sessions then he gets assigned a new sandbox. But at least the user will see the same sandbox in all open windows during the same browser session, which is more important than seeing the same sandbox some hours later. It seems simple enough that I could cut and paste some cookie examples I found on the web to do it. But to not break anything I should probably leave that to our javascript experts.
::But I'll deploy a simpler code at ] first. See the code I am showing at ].
::--] (]) 20:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Sounds good. ] (]) 06:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Alternate projects <s>link</s> section in sidebar ==

In addition to the "languages" box in the sidebar, I propose that a new box be added to link to equivalent pages in other projects. For instance, if Wikimedia Commons has a "Village pump", then it would be linked to from this box when viewing this page. ] (]) 04:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:For clarification: we're talking about Commons, the Foundation, and sister projects like Wikibooks and Wiktionary, right? And I assume you're suggesting this because it might benefit pages in projectspace, since within articles (for example) we typically use templates to link to relevant pages in other projects, and of course links like ] work fine as well.

:Is this a widespread problem? Most projectspace pages are fairly static, so it's easy to add a link in the "See also" section of a page. Village pump pages aren't, but I can't think of many other pages besides noticeboards that are dynamic, not static. And why wouldn't posting such links at the top of ''talk/discussion'' pages be sufficient, for dynamic pages?

:And finally, while this proposal certainly has some technical aspects to it, it would appear this would be better posted at ] than at this page.

::Yeah, I mean the sister projects like commons. Typically, there are links in the See also sections as well as within templates, but I thought that a box on the sidebar would be more consistent (i.e. the same methodology used across all of MediaWiki). ] (]) 21:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that SharkD has a nice idea here. I would like to use this in articles to link to Wiktionary and Wikispecies when appropriate. And yeah, this would be even more useful in the "Misplaced Pages:" namespace. Technically we would need a slightly different syntax to add such links, since currently a link like <code><nowiki>]</nowiki></code> becomes an interwiki link in the sidebar, while a link like <code><nowiki>]</nowiki></code> simply becomes the link ]. But hey, take a look at the ] page! Wiktionary apparently has a such a system already!
:::--] (]) 18:04, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:WikiProjects can design their main pages any way they want, if they want sister project links, they can add them. <font face="Comic sans">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 18:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::Corvus cornix: This is not about the main page, this is about the sidebar used on ''all'' pages.
::--] (]) 15:35, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the change would encourage general visitors to check out the other projects. (Am I being naive?) ] (]) 03:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Now at . ] (]) 03:22, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Monobook.js not updated correctly ==

I recently added Twinkle to my monobook.js but now I have to press Ctrl + F5 on ''every'' page in order to get the extra tabs to load up; every page automatically loads without the TW tabs, and only after a hard refresh (which, again, I have to do every time I click on a page) do they show up. Any advice?
] (]) 12:58, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:I have this problem frequently in Internet Explorer. Forcing a hard refresh, and even deleting the temporary files first, doesn't always have an immediate effect. I never have this problem in Firefox though. ] (]) 14:05, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::Twinkle isn't compatible with IE; you're going to have to use either Firefox, Safari or Opera. '''<font face="Rockwell">] (])</font>''' 15:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh, right, that explains it! ] (]) 11:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Preview categories ==

Is it technically possible to show categories in the Preview Pane? It seems half my edits are correcting my own errors in category names because they can't be previewed.--] (]) 13:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:I agree. This can be annoying. However, making the category visible may cause the edit page to appear ''in'' the category as a side effect. ] (]) 14:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:I'm not sure what you mean. When you are previewing a "whole page edit", or a "section edit" of a section which contains categories (usually the last section e.g. "==External links==") the categories will appear in the preview, in the same place they appear in the saved page (e.g. at the very bottom in monobook skin). "Hidden" categories are visible at the bottom of the edit screen regardless of whether they are in the section you are editing, and regardless of whether you have chosen the " Show hidden categories" option in Special:Preferences. — ] 14:29, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::It is useful to be able to see them to check for accidentally-induced redlinks by virute of mispeelings and the like. As I say below, I'm certain the list at the bottom of the screen uysed to show this, as I recall using it for this very purpose (I think!). ] - ] 14:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:That used to be right at the very bottom of the whole screen (and not merely at the bottom of the preview), along with a list of templates. I'm 99.3% certain of this, but it certainly does not appear at present. It appears however, that a ''hidden'' category does get shown right at the bottom of the screen. I think this may be a bug, as I'm sure it's a changed behaviour. ] - ] 14:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::''...certainly does not appear at present'' ← Still not sure what you mean ? — ] 15:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure what or why or when, but the people reporting this were not imagining it. I experienced the same thing over the past few days, although it seems to have gone back to the previous behavior of displaying the categories. Although I thought it a little odd, I was busy with other things and didn't feel inclined to report it. ] ≠ ] 17:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::: I didn't notice the problem, but I'm not doubting that it existed; in any case, categories seem to be showing again (at the very bottom of the screen) when doing a preview. Those who think this is a problem are welcome to comment at ]. -- <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] </font> ] 20:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::Wow! Last time I checked categories didn't appear in preview pages. It's been a while since I've edited any categories, though. ] (]) 21:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Not sure if I was (anti-)hallucinating earlier, but I do see them now. Using a different PC, but same Firefox version. Ah well. Maybe I actually looked at the edit window page (where templates appear but categories don't) rather than the preview page. Didn't think so, though. ] - ] 23:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I actually don't know if this is what others were referring to, but what I had been seeing earlier is still happening. When I create a redirect, I often will categorize it as well. These are typically tiny or historical settlements that I am redirecting to the next larger administrative unit. I will often tag the redirect with {{tl|R with possibilities}} and a category like ]. Previously, both the text of {{tl|R with possibilities}} and any other categories would display in preview. Lately (and currently) not only does the text of {{tl|R with possibilities}} not appear at all in the redirect (preview or after saving) as it used to, but also the categories do not appear in the preview, although they do appear after saving. ] ≠ ] 17:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:This is not what others are referring to, but actually a real and current bug. The lack of visible categories in the preview is a very odd side effect of ''previewing a redirect'', not of ''previewing a page which is categorized via a template''. — ] 17:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
::Also see . &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>(]&nbsp;·&nbsp;])</small> 19:43, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

== Transclude historical image? ==

Is it possible to contrive a means of transcluding an old version of an image, ie. a previously-uploaded one from its history? Easy to get a URL to it, but can I persuade it to show as an image? ] - ] 14:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:In the same way that you can't wikilink to an old version of a page, no. I don't think it's really the idea: the whole point of the version system is that each new version is supposed to be an improvement on the previous content, so why would you want to use an out-of-date version? <font color="forestgreen">]</font>‑<font color="darkorange">]</font> 14:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::The more precise comparison is that you can't transclude an old version of a template either. Both of these features might however, have a few niche uses. Sometimes I have wished that old versions of articles used whatever version of the template which was current at that time, especially in cases where the names of some important parameters have been changed (so that article revisions using the old syntax don't work anymore), or more inane cases where some nimrod has renamed the template and deleted the redirect, but I digress. — ] 15:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::: I completely agree; some times, one has to conduct a full-blown historical research just to see exactly how an article looked three years ago. (And even then, there are usually several deleted images. ''(groan)'') ], <small>]</small> 21:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

::No, didn't think it was possible. My application is that the UK is fiddling with tax rates during the financial year - we have ] and friends, and I'd like for that to have (from its birth) in its history a list of how the tax has changed over time. In this exceptionally unusual year where tax rates are changing mid-way through, I'd like to display the new graph and the old one for a time. That means uploading the old one to a separate image file, even though its already stored on Wikimedia servers. I'll just live with the new one only, I guess. ] - ] 23:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:::If there is likely to be any future use for the historic images, each new version should be uploaded to a new title - probably including the year or date in the title. ] '']'' 08:58, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

== Lots of changes to "wikibits.js" ==

I've made lots of changes to "wikibits.js". The edited version can be found ]. The changes to the file are described ]. You can experiment with the code by copying it to your ]. The changes include several improvements to sortable tables. I'd appreciate some feedback. ] (]) 22:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:I posted some feedback on ] as I could not work out how to test it. -] (]) 10:37, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the feedback! I replied to your comments on the talk page. ] (]) 11:05, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
The bugzilla entries (including patches) for this(-ese) proposals can be found here: . ] (]) 03:13, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:One more: . ] (]) 16:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:Another: . ] (]) 06:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Proposal: collapse related categories ==

Some articles fall into several related categories (such as the ] family of categories). I was wondering if it might be a good idea to allow such categories to be replaced with a single link to the parent category in order not to clutter up the article. Thoughts? ] (]) 11:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:In a tree of categories, an article should only be in the most detailed subcategories; parent and grandparent categories should be omitted.--] (]) 15:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I don't take issue with their placement. The problem is when an article belongs to multiple categories (such as 1996 Japanese video games, 1997 North American video games, 1998 European video games, etc.) that all have the same parent category. In this case, replacing the link displayed in the article with a link to the parent category would save space and make the article look less cluttered. Maybe the category could even be expanded somehow to reveal the individual categories (though I'm not sure how this would work exactly...) ] (]) 15:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:I like this idea due to articles/templates/etc where multiple parties (e.g. countries) are involved, e.g. a conflict or war. So, something like "...History of A&nbsp;| History of B&nbsp;| History of C&nbsp;| History of D&nbsp;..." could become "...History of A{{\}}B{{\}}C{{\}}D...". I guess the parser would need to look for, group together and then abbreviate all identically-constructed category names. ] (]) 16:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::That would work too. ] (]) 17:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::It would probably be better to add a flag to the category(-ies) in order to force this behavior instead of relying on the parser to make a best guess. For some categories the behavior might not be desirable, and there might be cases where a category fits the naming scheme but is not actually related in any way, causing the parser to produce false results. ] (]) 20:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Added to . ] (]) 03:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Image category help ==

How do I place images like ] into a category? Will "creating the page" cause problems? Thanks! ] (]) 11:42, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:You can do it, but I think WikiCommons would be a better place to created categories of images.--] (]) 15:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::Well, the nice thing about having the categories be on Misplaced Pages is that they appear along side the articles when viewing the category. I.e., readers viewing the category may find images they hadn't looked for and be pleasantly surprised. ] (]) 15:22, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:::You can link to the commons categories, see {{tl|commonscat}} (not "]" mind you). — ] 15:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::::If I use {{tl|commonscat}} for category B (located on commons), will this cause all the images in that particular category to appear in category A (located on en:WP)? This is what I'm trying to achieve. ] (]) 20:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::No, this is just the standard way of linking to a commons category from a project other than commons. Attempting to categorize commons images locally on each project is redundant and confusing (as there is no corresponding local content). — ] 13:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Bot request involving publishing category intersections on the 'Net ==

I made a bot request, ], involving the publishing of article/category data in table format on the Web. I would appreciate it if you guys were to take a look at it and critique it on a technical basis. Is such a bot system feasable? Are there good reasons this should not be done? Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks! ] (]) 15:19, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Autoblocks ==

Sorry if I am bringing up an old issue again but is there any plans to replace ? Thanks, ] (''']''') 15:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Server kitties gone wild? ==

I have two or three times now submitted an edit which goes into deep lag and returns the Wikimedia Foundation error screen. During this lag, I can check my watchlist and see the change already registered. Anyone else seeing this glitch? Did someone forget to pay the power bills for one of the servers? ] (]) 23:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:All fine here. ] 23:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::Yeah, nevermind, all gone now. Weird though - maybe I should try the page I was working on again, just to be sure. ] (]) 23:56, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Free and clear. I'm not paranoid, it's just that they're singling me out for persecution. ] (]) 00:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Franamax: I don't know what page you worked on but: If you save a change to a very widely used template then it takes more than one minute to put that job on the job queue. Then you get a pretty scary looking error message after your save has "timed out". However the servers will continue to put that job on the job queue and finish the job even after you have gotten that error message. The same thing would be true if another page for some reason takes too long to save. So before you try to save again I recommend you open another browser tab and view the page you were working with, to see if it already is saved or not.
::::And yeah, the servers have been a bit twitchy lately. That happens every now and then but our server admins usually fix it within some hours. (Hugs and kisses to our server admins, they seem to be working 24/7.)
::::--] (]) 16:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monobook.js fails to change ==

I changed the code of my monobook.js file and then removed it and then replaced it. The change does not affect my ] --] (]) 00:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:Have you ]? If that doesn't help, what browser are you using? ] 00:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::And I could be wrong, but shouldn't all those custombuttons be inside an addonloadHook (function(){})? ] 00:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I copied ]. --] (]) 01:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:I've had problems bypassing my cache in Internet Explorer. Sometimes it takes, sometimes it doesn't. Never had problems in Firefox. ] (]) 14:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::I'm using Safari 3! --] (]) 15:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Try purging the file using URL. ] (]) 17:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Image not showing ==

Please help! Can't get uploaded image to show up in the page . . why? ] (]) 03:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:Image names are case sensitive. edit failed because of a lower case 'i' in ] instead of ]. ] (]) 03:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Something weird in our neighbourhood ==

on ] some of the wikilinks are not visible in the project page although you can see they are there in the edit screen.

Here is the raw wikitext:

<nowiki>* The ] has reached 90,000 entries.

* The ] has reached 60,000 articles.

* The ] has reached 100 entries.

</nowiki>
This then comes out as:<blockquote>
* The has reached 90,000 entries.
* The has reached 60,000 articles.
* The has reached 100 entries.</blockquote>

I've tried this with firefox 3.01 and Safari Version 3.1.2 (4525.22) on Mac OS X 10.4.11 (8S2167). <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:16, 31 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Add a colon before the language prefix, or it will show up on the left. --] 09:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Database error ==

I keep getting:
:A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: (SQL query hidden) from within function "ExternalStoreDB::store". MySQL returned error "1030: Got error 136 from storage engine (10.0.2.107)".
-- User:Docu
::I got that one too earlier today. After a complicated edit too - luckily Refresh pulled it out of the dumpster. See my post above - I'm sure the servers are hungover today, or at least one of them needs a drug test. ] (]) 10:35, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::I concur. If they are shown to be guilty then they should have their medals stripped from them! It seems to have suddenly started working again in the last few minutes. I reported it at the help desk ]</span> <sup>]</sup> 11:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::This just started for me too. ] ≠ ] 10:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Me too (if this saves). ] (]) 10:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Again - 10.0.2.107 needs euthanizing it seems. ] (]) 11:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

::::See https://wikitech.leuksman.com/view/Server_admin_log --- User:Docu

=== Me too ===

<pre>
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "ExternalStoreDB::store". MySQL returned error "1030: Got error 136 from storage engine (10.0.2.102)".
</pre>

I received this error when trying to save ]. It has not occurred again. Just thought I might report it anyway. — '''^.^''' <sup>&#91;''] ]''&#93;</sup> 11:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:on the same note I keep on receiving similar errors. They occur on random pages that seem to have no link. Normally happens to me when trying to save a page. <font color="blue">''']''' <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub></font> 11:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::That happened to me when I was trying to add a CSD tag when ] wasn't working. --] (]) 15:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I got it an hour or two ago while simply trying to post to a talk page. Luckily I always copy to the paste buffer before I hit "save". ] <sup>'']''</sup> 16:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::::If that happens on Firefox and you've just pressed "Save" to save content, you can just press F5, and nothing is lost. ] (]) 16:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:I've encountered this error twice today, but never before. ] (]) 17:57, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::I've been here for about 3 1/2 years and this is the first time I recall seeing it. I'll get "page not found" from time to time, but not this. ] <sup>'']''</sup> 19:41, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Database Error - Page Not Found ==

I get a database error where the database "cannot find a page that it should find" at this I think the problem is the old ID is missing from the database.

I'm not very sophisticated at the working of Misplaced Pages but the missing page relates to a very hot topic and I am concerned that someone may have manipulated the database to delete the page. Can this be checked? ] (]) 19:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:It looks like your URL is missing a '4' at the end. That would give http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets/Thunderbird2&diff=prev&oldid=234474144 which is the page creation. ] (]) 22:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== ] ==

Hey guys. I installed this tool on my ] a few months ago. To see the changes, I always had to bypass my browser cache ...however, no matter how many times I do that now, I am unable to use the non-admin rollback button, even though it worked before. It always says "Internal Server Error" and when I check the error report, it says "Line 275; Char: 2; Undefined is null or not an object; Code: 0". I don't know what sort of junk that's supposed to mean, but I DO know that the error might be a bug or something that affected ]. I know that this tool is "out-dated", but I use it anyway and it works on any computer in, say, the library. Does anyone know how this works? Thanks, ] (]) 20:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

...PS: normal admin rollback works with me only ''sometimes'' as I was just recently granted the rollback function (it was always like that). Whenever it doesn't work, it asks me to use non-admin rollback, so that's where the issue is noticeable. ] (]) 20:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:I gave Troy some suggestions ], but I don't know if that's done it or not.--] - ] 02:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Template/CSS help ==

I'm trying to achieve effect in ] article using ] template. There are two problems: 1) it only works in Internet Explorer, AFAIK; 2) it screws up the alphabetic sorting of the table column. I was hoping someone here might have a solution. Thanks! ] (]) 20:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:It works fine in FF3, Opera and Safari. You could use a ] to sort out the sorting. ] 20:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry I didn't specify the issue in better detail! It's been a few weeks since I actually worked on the article/template.
::The problem in Firefox is when the cell's text is too long. In Firefox a line-beak occurs between the audio link and the cell text, causing the cell text and audio link to appear on different lines. In IE the cell text instead wraps when it comes into contact with the audio link. To see this problem in effect, take a look at the thirteenth row in the table. (You may have to decrease the size of the browser window first, as the problem will not occur if the browser window is very wide.) I'm not sure which browser is technically working "correctly", but the IE behavior is the one that is desired. ] (]) 20:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::According to the template docs, ''if there are line-break/overlap issues you should specify the widths for each span using the optional parameters, <code>lw</code> and <code>rw</code>.'' ] 23:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Hehe. I ''wrote'' the doc. Anyway, I tried this and another user reverted it (it only works when the table column has a width specified for it), so I'm looking for a better all-around solution. ] (]) 03:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Why not just put the text and link in different columns? ] 13:54, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Putting the links in another column is ugly, and would result in the table tabulating ''metadata'' instead of only ''data''. That said, maybe the borders between the two columns could be collapsed, but I think this would be more trouble than it's worth. ] (]) 16:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== Toilet history problem ==

I was wondering if anyone can give an explanation of what happened on the article ]. Due to Gwarp moves I move protected the article. A further attempt to move the article failed but the article move command has appeared in the article history as per . Why has an entry been made in the history? ] (]) 21:41, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:It wasn't a move. It was an edit which added a space to line 1 and made an edit summary which made it sound like a move. ] (]) 22:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks - I should have looked closer - too much Grawp at the moment, time for bed. ] (]) 23:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Excluding editors unlikely to vandalize from filtered recent changes ==

I often use ] to scroll recent changes for vandalism. The tool works great, but the feed is cluttered with perfectly legitimate edits and vandalism reversions that get caught b/c it operates with a bad-words list. One way I've often considered to exclude these is to create a whitelist of admins and others whose edits don't get picked up by the tool. The ] and would be a good start to such a list (this isn't by any means an effort to create a new "trusted" user class). Would it be possible to implement this somehow, as all Lupin's code appears to be in his userspace? (I would contact Lupin, but he or she hasn't edited in almost eight months.)--] - ] 22:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:The ] tool grabs data from the ] RSS feed , which currently allows you to ignore bots, anons, etc. with <tt>&hidebots=1</tt>, <tt>&hideanons=1</tt>, etc. in the url. Adding more options for other access levels e.g. <tt>&hideadmins=1</tt>, <tt>&hiderollbacker=1</tt>, <tt>&hideboardvote=1</tt>, etc. would be the most efficient way to ignore certain user-groups, because loading only the diffs you want to see is less wasteful than loading all of them and telling the script to disregard many of them, and would require only minimal changes to the script (namely the url it grabs from). Talk to the devs about this. — ] 14:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Whether a change was made by a user who's anonymous or a bot is stored in the recentchanges table. Whether they're an admin, rollbacker, boardvote, etc. is not. It would require a join to the user_groups table and would be a lot less efficient. In some cases you'd probably have to scan the whole table, too: try searching for edits by ] . . . Bots and anons are "efficient enough" because you can expect a substantial but not overwhelming percentage of edits to be by each group. So at most you should have to scan two or three or ten times as many rows as you really need, not thousands of times as many. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 21:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Okay, failing the first option, how about including the user-rights of each user whose edits appear in the RSS feed? Then the script would know which edits to assume good (ignore) without having to hit the API or whatever for each unrecognized name. — ] 22:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::It could be done, sure, if there's enough demand for it. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 14:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Did you read Simetrical's reply above? He clearly says that, when generating the recentchanges table, checking for those things is not conducive to reasonable performance. It could, of course, be included in the recentchanges table, but it seems like a bit of a big ask for minimal benefit. OTOH, I'm working on some new fields for recentchanges, so it could be snuck in there, presuming there was sufficient demand/need for it. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 06:20, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:It would be an issue to filter by it. It wouldn't be an issue to just provide the data. One extra query on all the user_id's would do it. (Joining would be a bad idea because it would repeat rows.)<p>You couldn't include it in the recentchanges table unless you did something ugly like concatenating the group names, because users can have multiple groups, so it should really be in its own table. Plus you'd have to maintain it, if it were denormalized like that, which would be a pain. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 14:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Enable <code>&lt;kbd&gt;</code> &amp; <code>&lt;samp&gt;</code> ==

The standard &#91;X&#93;HTML elements <code>&lt;kbd&gt;...&lt;/kbd&gt;</code> and <code>&lt;samp&gt;...&lt;/samp&gt;</code> have been disabled by MediaWiki for no particular reason that I can conceive of. These are perfectly valid elements with with clear ] meanings. Right now, people are either abusing <code>&lt;code&gt;</code> (which has a ''different'' semantic significance), or misusing <code>&lt;tt&gt;</code> (which has ''no'' semantic significance and exists only for futzing with the presentation, and while not officially deprecated by ] yet has, like <code>&lt;i&gt;</code> and <code>&lt;b&gt;</code>, been effectively deprecated by the Web development community at large for around a decade now) in order to work around these Wiki-missing elements. For CSS purposes, <code>&lt;samp&gt;</code> should probably be styled exactly as MediaWiki styles <code>&lt;code&gt;</code>, and <code>&lt;kbd&gt;</code> identically to <code>&lt;code&gt;</code> but boldfaced. NB: They are all inline, not block, elements. Just to be clear, they should not be simply "allowed" and then translated into <code>&lt;code&gt;</code> or anything else, but should appear in the post-processed source as received by the browser just like <code>&lt;code&gt;</code> does, since they have independent semantic significance beyond their display style. — <b><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">]</span></b> &#91;]&#93; &#91;]&#93; <b>‹(-¿-)›</b> 23:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

: After looking up what these elements are used for, I agree that both <code>&lt;samp&gt;</code> and <code>&lt;kbd&gt;</code> should be enabled. Both of these look quite useful, and overuse of <code>&lt;code&gt;</code> certainly can make it hard to distinguish source code, user input, and user output. ]&nbsp;(]&nbsp;'''·''' ]) 23:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

{{bug|671}} —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 00:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== ] affecting my userpage ==

I can't seem to create any pages in my userspace as the username ^.^ is in the page title blacklist. Is it possible to rectify this problem so I can create pages in my userspace (the ones that are already there were moved over by a crat when I got renamed). At the very least, could a kind admin move ] to ]. (HappyMan is my ASCII compatible account). Thanks — '''^.^''' <sup>&#91;''] ]''&#93;</sup> 00:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:There seems to be a way to set individual entries on the title blacklist to apply only to editors who aren't autoconfirmed. Alternatively, there's also the handy-dandy ] if some helpful admin speaks whatever programming language these two are written in. Talk page archive moved.--] - ] 00:19, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::. <font face="Broadway">]]</font> 00:29, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== template help ==

Can someone help me add a parameter to {{tl|icu-saved}}? I'd like to be able to add "Nested=yes" so that it can be collapsed like regular WP tags. The WICU project has seveal tags but this one seems to be the one that stays on articles however they do more of a"treat and release" concept so the regular project banner doesn't seem as approprite in the cases of articles that have been "released". ] 03:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:Could you provide an example of a template that features the desired behavior? ] (]) 04:04, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::]. ] 06:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
: Done. ]] 11:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yea! Thank you!!! ] 02:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


:@] The ref name is <code>"Gaza genocide CNN_22_October_2024"</code> you'd just named it <code>"CNN_22_October_2024"</code> ] (]) 19:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
== When editing a page, whitespace above editing box ==
::{{re|Nthep}} Thanks, I hadn't realised that excerpt changed the refnames. Anyway, as I've been told by an admin not to proceed I won't fix any of the other errors in the article. I don't want an ARBPIA block for fixing refs. Obviously better to leave them broken. Nobody else seems to care anyway. ] (]) 20:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Please do not make claims about me unless you can prove them. Nobody mentioned ARBPIA, and I ''certainly'' didn't play the admin card: my edit at ] was made as an ordinary ] user, a threshold that I passed way back in July 2009, more than two years before I became an admin. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 20:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::You, an admin, quoted CITEVAR at me telling me not to add LDR to an article I was editing. One I've edited several times to mend reference errors. Anyway, I won't try to fix the article again. ] (]) 20:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I'm an admin; but where did I mention that? Did I do anything that might be construed as "I'm an admin so my edit trumps yours"? Also, I didn't quote CITEVAR, I linked it. It's an editing guideline that we are all expected to follow. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 20:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Your sig is highlighted in blue like all the other admins. ] (]) 20:36, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::It's not a MediaWiki default feature, you probably have some gadget installed that does that (possibly ]); these gadgets cannot distinguish between edits made using admin permissions (such as editing a fully-protected page) and those which anybody, even the total newbies, can make (such as {{diff|Template talk:Template link general|prev|1265152185|this post}}). I ''certainly'' don't have any special tool that marks some edits as admin edits and not others. In any case, my sig here is exactly the same as all the other sigs that I have left on any other discussion page since 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC), whether I have my admin hat on or not. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 21:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::And your name is highlighted in blue on my watchlist, like all other admins. I wasn't talking about "edits made using admin permissions". You, an admin, told me "do not add ]s to articles that previously had none, this goes against ]". ] (]) 21:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::{{ec}} But I didn't do so with my admin hat on, I did so as a watcher of WP:VPT. That's what I'm saying here. I can't turn the admin bit off and on at whim (that's a ] action), not even according to whether I need to use admin rights or not. The rights are just ''there'', all of the time, and have been since 2011. For example, on a fully-protected page, I get an "Edit" tab and not a "View source" tab, but I also get a pink box stating "Note: This page is protected so that only users with administrative rights can make edits." It's like a ] page: you and I both get the pink box stating "Note: This page is extended-confirmed protected so that only users with extended confirmed rights can make edits." When I edit such pages, I do so with my ] hat on; and when I edit VPT, I do so hatless. One thing the admin right does '''not''' do is give my edits any greater weight. Any XC user could have made the fix that I did, and given the explanation that I did. If you feel that I am guilty of a misuse of the rights that come with the admin bit, ]. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 21:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::When an admin says "do not do ''x''" to a non-admin, then THEY ARE WEARING THEIR ADMIN HAT. It's not about "using your admin rights", it's about the fact that you are an admin. ] (]) 22:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::This page is unprotected, anybody (who has read that guideline) could have written a post similar (if not identical) to mine. ''If'' I had preceded my post with a phrase such as "As an ], I must warn you that ...", you might have a point. But I didn't. This page has more than 3,600 watchers; I can't find out who they are (except for myself), but I suspect that some are admins and some not. The rights of a person making a post shouldn't make ''any'' difference to how that post is interpreted. Unless, of course, somebody posts in a manner that implies that they have a right that in reality, they don't. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 22:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::But not anybody wrote it, an admin wrote it. You can't tell people "do not" and then pretend you weren't an admin when you said it. If it really upsets you that people know you are an admin then resign. ] (]) 23:00, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I'm not pretending not to be an admin; I'm saying that the edit was done without recourse to the admin toolkit. It doesn't upset me that people know I'm an admin (it's ]), but apparently it upsets you. You can't expect an admin to do nothing but block, delete and protect: at some point admins will want to make a perfectly ordinary edit. If you are upset that you have found out that some editors also happen to be admins, uninstall that gadget that you seem to be using. Then we'll all look the same again. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 23:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::This isn't about you using the toolkit or not. It's the fact that you are an admin so when you give an instruction it is an instruction given by an admin. An admin - you - told me "do not add ]s to articles that previously had none, this goes against ]". I folowed the instruction the admin had given me. ] (]) 00:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::{{diff|Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard|next|1265850378|AN report filed}}. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 00:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{replyto|DuncanHill|Nthep}}That's not it at all. The problem is that almost the whole of the "Genocide" section is transcluded from the lead section of ], except for that article's infobox (and certain other preliminary matter); and the ref concerned was defined inside the infobox. {{diff|Gaza genocide|prev|1265809431|Moving it outside the infobox}} fixes it.
::BTW: please do not add ]s to articles that previously had none, this goes against ]. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 19:43, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::{{re|redrose64}} How else do I fix the broken refnames? That wasn't the only one. ] (]) 19:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ec}} You brought ''one'' specific issue to this problem board, which I fixed, and {{diff|Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war|prev|1265811224|this}} is the thanks that I get for that. So, despite your claim that {{tq|they are responsible for all that remain}}, I don't see why I should fix any more for you. Please note that you have not {{tq|been forbiddedn from fixing refname errors in this article by Redrose64}}. If there is any responsibility, it should lie with those who introduced the error in the first place, which certainly was not me. In short: problems should be fixed at source, not somewhere down the chain. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 20:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Redrose64}} You told me not to use list-defined refs, even though this seems to be the only way of fixing the refname errors in the article. I am not going around looking for fucking horrible referencing systems to add to random articles for the hell of it, all I am trying to do is fix problems when I see them. Can you do me a favour? Next time I ask for help just ignore me. We'll both be happier, and probably things will get fixed faster. ] (]) 20:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::Please read what I wrote. I didn't tell you {{tq|not to use list-defined refs}}, I directed you to a guideline that says not to change the article's established referencing style. In my edit to ] (linked above), I demonstrated that LDRs are not {{tq|the only way of fixing the refname errors in the article}}. If you have other problems of a similar nature, please list them and the watchers of this page will endeavour to help, but don't expect them to do so if you are going to treat them the way that you treat me.
::::::In short: if you don't want help from the people who hang around a help desk, don't ask at that help desk. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 20:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I want help from helpful people. I didn't ask you to fix anything, I asked why my edit hadn't worked. I intended, having sorted the first one out, to go ahead an fix the other errors myself. You came down on me with "do not add ]s to articles that previously had none, this goes against ]". So are you now saying I can ignore that? ] (]) 20:35, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::To quote from my very first reply here: {{tq|The problem is that almost the whole of the "Genocide" section is transcluded from the lead section of Gaza genocide, except for that article's infobox ... and the ref concerned was defined inside the infobox. Moving it outside the infobox fixes it.}} There you go: an explanation of what the problem was, plus directions on how to fix. Now, what else have I omitted to provide you with? --] &#x1F98C; (]) 21:21, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Will that work for all the others in the article? ] (]) 21:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::No, scrub that, Redrose64 - PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HELP ME. It's really unpleasant now. ] (]) 21:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::OK, shall I take myself to ]? --] &#x1F98C; (]) 22:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
* This is a bit ridiculous, especially as that article still has citation errors caused by faulty transclusion. Adding list defined refs to solve the citation error it better than ''having'' a citation error. Yes CITEVAR, but this is a perfect case to remember IAR. Having large red error messages is obviously worse than ''not'' having large red error messages. If another editor wants to fix the issue by editing the article being transcluded fine, but that is not always possible as some articles are transcludsd multiple times. Fixing it in the original article may then break it in others. Ultimately the responsibility to make sure these errors don't exist is on those setting up the transclusion, rather an editor trying to make the encyclopedia better by removing obvious large error messages. -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 13:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*:Also per ] {{tq|fixing errors in citation coding}} isn't a CITEVAR violation. If the fix isn't to your liking then per CITEVAR {{tq|Do not revert someone else's contribution merely because the citation style doesn't match. '''If you know how to fix it, then fix it.'''}} -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 13:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*::I ''did'' {{diff|Gaza genocide|prev|1265809431|fix it}}, and also fixed it in a manner that does not change the citation style in either the thranscluding article or the transcluded article; nor will it break any other articles that transclude it. In so doing I am not aware that I reverted anybody. Please show which edit I reverted. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 14:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::I don't say you revertex. The bit I highlighted was that if you don't like the fix that has been done then do it another way, fixing the issue is more important than how the source code looks. Criticising someone for making a fix is counterproductive, even if you dislike how they fixed the issue. -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 15:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::{{replyto|ActivelyDisinterested}} I'm confused, Did I make the right fix, or not? --] &#x1F98C; (]) 01:21, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== Why does the account go out? ==
When editing a page (that is, on the page you get to after clicking the "Edit this page" link), there is some whitespace above the editing box that wasn't there before today, which I think is caused by something like:
{{Moved discussion from|Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)#Why does the account go out?| ] (]) 00:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)}}


Why is my Misplaced Pages account getting kicked out every hour or every day or every minute? (] (]) 11:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC))
<source lang="html4strict"><div id="wikiPreview"></div></source>


:Do you allow cookies on your device? ] (]) 11:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
getting changed to:
::Yes. I gave permission. To delete cookies or not to delete t ] (]) 14:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Possibly related to ]? @] please confirm. <span class ="nowrap vcard"><b><span class="fn">]</span> &lt;]&bull;]&gt;</b></span> 00:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::What do I confirm? Thank you. (] (]) 02:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC))
:::::They were asking you to confirm whether or not the recent bug fix linked above had resolved your issue. --] 18:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)


== Help with ] ==
<source lang="html4strict"><div id="wikiPreview"></div><p><br /></p></source>


I'm trying to use {{tl|Album chart}} at ]. The album charted on the UK Official Record Store Chart ( to the specific week), but I can't see that in the documentation anywhere, and the docs don't say how to specify a custom chart in manual mode. Using "UK" as the identifier in automatic mode instead links to instead of the actual page for the artist, . I'd just do the table manually, but I honestly don't know how tables work in wikitext, and I don't feel like learning unless I have to. Could I get some help formatting the template to get this to work? ], it/he (]/]) 03:24, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
Where was this change made?


Hi {{U|Suntooooth}}. Apologies to all for the unindented response. Four things:
—] (]) 04:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
# If you know you're having trouble with a template like {{tl|Album chart}}, you can ask for help at ]
# For help with tables, you could start at ], but you said you don't want to learn about that. Unfornately, the template you're trying to use (or get help with) is intended for use in a table, so you'll probably want some proficiency sometime. I've included a sample Charts section below.
# The real problem isn't so much technical; it's that you are trying to cite a position on a not-too-notable chart. That is, we have no article for it, and it's not listed at ], so it's not too surprising it's not currently supported by {{tl|Album chart}}.
# To resolve the content problem, the place to seek consensus is ]. You'll need to explain your intention and maybe why that chart is more (or as) worthy as ] (which {{em|is}} supported by {{tl|Album chart}}). I looked in the talk page's archive for Record Store Chart and didn't find anything. Possibly it's not been discussed before.


Here's that sample section I mentioned, for illustration only. It uses (1) the Album chart template with {{para|UK2}}, giving a fictitious citation. It also uses (2) a manual citation which provides a citation to a non-notable chart. I recommend you use {{em|neither}} of these; this is just so you can see how it would look.
:In : look at the comments to ] and maybe some other revisions as well. —] 04:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


===Charts===<!-- Usually done with Level 2, not level 3 headings -->
::Thank you for the info, AlexSm. But this is not cool at all; that unnecessary whitespace is very annoying and shoves the edit box down too far. As far as I can tell from looking at the revisions, under the previous code, the
{| class="wikitable plainrowheaders sortable" style="text-align:center;"
|+ 2024 weekly chart performance for ''So Medieval''
! scope="col"| Chart (2024)
! scope="col"| Peak<br />position
|-
{{Album chart|UK2|not 33|artist=BLUE-BENDY|date=20240425|refname=|access-date=2 January 2025|rowheader=true}}
|-
!scope="row"|UK Official Record Store Chart (])<ref>. ]. Retrieved 2 January 2025.</ref>
| 33
|}


{{reflist-talk}}
::<source lang="html4strict"><p><br /></p></source>


Good luck and happy editing. <i>&mdash;&nbsp;] (] / ])</i> 23:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::part was only generated when there was actually a Preview DIV with content in it (which makes sense, because if there is a Preview block, we want there to be some space between the Preview block and the edit box for visual clarity). But now, that whitespace is generated even when there is no Preview (that is, you haven't clicked the Preview button, so there is only a Preview DIV with no content). This is unnecessary whitespace that looks rather glaring. Any idea how to get the attention of the developers to fix this, or alternatively, how I can modify my monobook.css to get rid of the whitespace?


:Thanks for the detailed response! Per this and a concurrent discussion at ], I've brought this up over at the talk page for ] in order to gauge if the chart would be suitable for articles. ], it/he (]/]) 12:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::—] (]) 19:36, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


== Source editing ==
Saying "I don't like it, for the following reasons" would be sufficient to express your displeasure with the change. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 07:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


Hey can we stop having the source html diffs intermix removed text with added thereby making it impossible to read or copy/paste?
:Yes, but who should I contact to get this changed? Or like I said, alternatively, how I can modify my monobook.css to get rid of the whitespace? —] (]) 17:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


It makes it really difficult when a ref gets broken, and we need to get it from the previous edit, but we can’t copy from the visual and the source text is yellow mixed inseparably with blue. ] (]) 17:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
== Global block overwrites local block? ==


:Go into desktop mode rather than using the mobile view while on a mobile device. You can find the choice for this at the very bottom of the screen. ] (]) 19:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
Does a global softblock of an IP address overwrite a local hardblock of the same? --]<sup>]</sup> 06:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:No. — ] 14:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


== Update Help pages as "Search" button changed in Vector Skin 2022 ==
No global block will ever "overwrite" a local block. To say this implies that the local block is somehow removed. The effect of both a global block and a local block is ''additive''. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 07:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


{{FYI|pointer=y|Neutral advertising as there has been little response.}}
== ] ==
In the desktop version, the magnifying glass "Go" button to click to search link has been replaced by the "Search" button at the top of every page in the default Vector skin (2022). But most help pages have not reflected this change. ] '''Please see ].''' <span style="color:#CD0000">] ★ (])</span> 09:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


== How to get technical help if requested but not replied to ==
Something very odd has happened here. I did an edit. and the bottom half of the page has vanished, along with its edit history from what I can make out. This is what it looks like now ''''']''''' 10:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:Now it's suddenly all reappeared again - the rest of the page and the related part of the edit history. ''''']''''' 10:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
And now it's half vanished, along with the edit history related to that part. Also talk page is a red link. Here's the edit history with edits missing:


Around the 14th of this month, I asked for help in a request entitled "Cursor jumping" but never got a reply. Around that same time, I had some medical issues and was eventually hospitalized. The request was archived. I'd like to follow up on it now because it's extremely time-consuming when writing and responding to messages in Misplaced Pages when I'm on my computer. The problem doesn't happen on my cell phone or anywhere else on my computer except in Misplaced Pages.
*(cur) (last) 10:08, 1 September 2008 Tyrenius (Talk | contribs | block) (161,385 bytes) (→Talk: John Michell (writer): heading level from 2 to 3) (rollback | undo)
*((cur) (last) 09:50, 1 September 2008 Tyrenius (Talk | contribs | block) (161,383 bytes) (rv self - something not working here) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 09:48, 1 September 2008 Tyrenius (Talk | contribs | block) (160,083 bytes) (move post down to related post) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 03:46, 31 August 2008 Privatemusings (Talk | contribs | block) (161,383 bytes) (→Ongoing WP:BLP-related concerns: add danny) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 00:37, 20 August 2008 SageMab (Talk | contribs | block) (161,165 bytes) (Talk: John Michell (writer)) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 00:30, 20 August 2008 SageMab (Talk | contribs | block) (159,865 bytes) (→Talk:living author: defaming continues) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 16:19, 15 August 2008 Ciupicat (Talk | contribs | block) (158,721 bytes) (→{{Lidia Matticchio Bastianich}}) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 16:18, 15 August 2008 Ciupicat (Talk | contribs | block) (158,721 bytes) (→Ongoing WP:BLP-related concerns) (undo)
*((cur) (last) 04:25, 15 August 2008 Edison (Talk | contribs | block) (158,356 bytes) (→Proposal for a vote) (undo)


There were two other help requests that are similarly in need of continued help ("Mystery sticky notes" and "Another mystery"), but let's start with this one. ] (]) 11:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
There's too much that had vanished to show it all here, but here's a sample of what it looks like when it's working OK:
:Well, it's been said that the best way to get an answer to a question on the Internet is, not to ask the question, but to post the wrong answer to the question. ] (]) 11:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:@]: Please visit , try writing something, and let me know if you are still facing this issue. – ] <small>(])</small> 12:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::@], the link goes to my sandbox (???). If that's what you intended, then no, what I described doesn't happen there. It's only when I'm writing or replying to messages. ] (]) 12:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, this was intended to check if the issue occurs in safe mode. Please try ]. – ] <small>(])</small> 13:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Resetting my preferences to what? I surely didn’t set any preferences to do these annoying things! ] (]) 13:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:Could be the same issue as ]. If you have enabled the Google translate gadget, try disabling it. ] (]) 13:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::Oh, yikes — I’d hate to do that because I use Translate often. 😓
::But it’s not just the Shift key that makes the cursor jump; it’s also still other keys like “ ‘ — plus a few more I wrote about in my original message several weeks ago. ] (]) 15:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::Well, @], it turns out that I don't have Google Translate on my computer, only my phone. So that's not the culprit affecting my jumpy cursor when working on messages in Misplaced Pages. Any other ideas? ] (]) 16:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I'm talking about the ]. You can't have it only on your phone and not on your computer, unless you log into different accounts on those devices. ] (]) 04:21, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::@], I'm beginning to get a glimmer of an idea of what you're talking about. I still don't quite understand what a gadget is, but here's what I do know: that on my computer, when I'm on Google Drive or in a Google-driven e-mail account, I see Google Translate in what I think is called the "dot menu" as one of a number of available programs I can use (I forgot it was there because I guess I haven't used it much on my computer) ... but when I'm on my cell phone, I see a separate icon for Google Translate. And you want me to do something to un-enable Google Translate on my computer. How do I do that?
::::I translate a lot on my cell phone, but if I want to use the program on my computer is it really necessary not to have access to Google Translate in order to use Misplaced Pages in peace? There are some other weird things going on when I write or edit messages in Misplaced Pages besides the jumpy cursor that I described in one of the earlier messages I also submitted some weeks back here at the Village Pump technical question place. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
:::::Follow ] and locate the fifth item "{{int:gadget-GoogleTrans}}". If it's checked, uncheck it and click "Save". I'm not talking about translation feature or extension on your devices and those have likely nothing to do with your symptom, even if the GoogleTrans gadget (which ''isn't'' on your devices) wasn't the culprit either. ] (]) 06:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::@], Did that, although the "<sup><abbr>(E)</abbr></sup> <sup><abbr>(U)</abbr></sup> ]: open a translation popup for the selected text or the word under the cursor when pushing the shift button" item was third on my screen. It had been checked, so I unchecked it and saved the change.) At first, I thought what you asked me to do had worked because there was no more cursor jumping for maybe 7 or 8 sentences. But now it's still going on. : 0
::::::I forgot to mention that sometimes, like in the short last sentence I wrote, the initial capital letter also jumps back to the beginning of another sentence, not always the previous one. Other times, like in this sentence, that doesn't happen. ] (]) 08:11, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== Free High Quality PDFs of Misplaced Pages Articles ==
*(cur) (last) 18:27, 15 August 2008 Wikidemon (Talk | contribs | block) (69,552 bytes) (→Mocking a BLP at Media Matters for America: evil steve jobs) (undo)
*(cur) (last) 18:09, 15 August 2008 Noroton (Talk | contribs | block) (69,012 bytes) (→Mocking a BLP at Media Matters for America: wrong on all counts) (undo)
*(cur) (last) 17:45, 15 August 2008 Gamaliel (Talk | contribs | block) m (68,332 bytes) (→Mocking a BLP at Media Matters for America) (undo)
*(cur) (last) 17:44, 15 August 2008 Gamaliel (Talk | contribs | block) (68,331 bytes) (→Mocking a BLP at Media Matters for America) (undo)
*(cur) (last) 06:36, 15 August 2008 MiszaBot II (Talk | contribs | block) m (67,987 bytes) (Archiving 1 thread(s) (older than 4d) to Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive50.) (undo)
*(cur) (last) 05:48, 15 August 2008 Wikidemon (Talk | contribs | block) (69,708 bytes) (→Mocking a BLP at Media Matters for America: comment) (undo)
*(cur) (last) 04:25, 15 August 2008 Noroton (Talk | contribs | block) (68,971 bytes) (→Mocking a BLP at Media Matters for America: response to LaughingVulcan) (undo)


Hi,
It is at the moment OK again.


on
''''']''''' 10:23, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


https://mediawiki2latex.wmcloud.org/
== Page text not found ==


you can get high quality PDF versions of Misplaced Pages articles for free in seconds. EPUB, ODT and LaTeX versions are also possible.
While looking for potential image copyvios in an , I encountered the following on two images (] & ]):<blockquote>The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "Image:Kristine hermosa.jpg".<br />


For more details on the underlying open source project see ] or the presentation ]
This is usually caused by following an outdated diff or history link to a page that has been deleted.<br />


Merry Christmas and a happy new year!
If this is not the case, you may have found a bug in the software. Please report this, making note of the URL.</blockquote>Well, it isn't a diff or a history link, and there's nothing in the image logs to suggest they've been deleted. So I'm reporting it here as advised. Thanks. --] (]) 10:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


Might be relevant: {{bug|15430}} —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 21:20, 1 September 2008 (UTC) Yours ] (]) 11:58, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


== Group changes by page in contributions ==
== Important RFC on Notability! ==


Is there a way of grouping changes by page in contributions (in the same way this works in my watchlist)?
Note that ] is now open for business and your comments would be very welcome. --] (]) 10:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
If there is, this would greatly help me in checking for any unfinished editing tasks that I have meant to come back to, but have not. (With the impending New Year, this is a standard housekeeping task for me.) ] <sub> ]</sub> 19:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{replyto|ThoughtIdRetired}} It's not part of the MediaWiki software, so is not available as a preference. But it should be possible for a JavaScript expert to write a gadget that will do what you want. --] &#x1F98C; (]) 01:17, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:] gives you ]. ] (]) 03:41, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== citation needed tag with year 2025 ==
== Custom edit messages ==


I tried adding citation needed tag for 2025 and it shows up as ".]" in the article. Am I missing something or is it because something is missing if we use year 2025. ] (]) 13:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Per the ], we can now add custom edit notices per page. This looks like a much better solution than using comments in the article. Does anyone understand how to implement this? --—<i><b>—&nbsp;]<font color = "darkblue">&nbsp;<sup>]</sup></font></b> - </i> 11:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


:Issue on ] fixed, looks like from where copied the template, category already exists as required. ] (]) 13:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:If ] is created, it will appear when editing any user-page. If ] is created, it will appear when editing '''''your''''' user-page. Try it ]. — ] 14:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Oh ok. Thanks! I have always used the Template for Citation needed - e.g. when I use that template, it has subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME subst:CURRENTYEAR and I usually change the month/year. Wonder why it didn't work now. ] (]) 13:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Asteramellus}} If you changed it manually then I guess you just wrote it wrong. Your edit saved <code><nowiki>{{Citation needed|date=January {{subst:2025}}}}</nowiki></code>. I see you used VisualEditor. You don't have to change anything there when you add {{tl|citation needed}}. Just add the template and the subst code will automatically be transformed to the current month and year when you save the edit. I guess you accidentally changed <code><nowiki>{{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>{{subst:2025}}</nowiki></code> without removing <code><nowiki>{{subst:}}</nowiki></code>. That would produce the code in your edit. ] (]) 14:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::yes thanks! ] (]) 14:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::: Each year someone creates a template like ] to ] for people who get confused in that manner. No one had created the 2025 template yet; now I have. ]] 16:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::I didn't know such templates were created. I see we also have {{tl|January}} to {{tl|December}} for the same reason. So Asteramellus did as usual and never discovered it was wrong because we compensate for the error. It reminds me of ] with various templates like {{tl|DEFAULTSORT}} to compensate for users who incorrectly use template syntax instead of magic word syntax. ] (]) 17:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== Can we do something about the ridiculous message displayed whenever syntax highlighting is taking "too long"? ==
::Check out template {{tl|editnotice}}. It has documentation that explains how this works. (And no, I didn't make that template.) One thing worth mentioning is that only admins can create editnotices since they are placed in the fully protected "MediaWiki:" namespace.
::--] (]) 15:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


{{tq|Syntax highlighting on this page was disabled because it took too long. The maximum allowed highlighting time is 20ms, and your computer took 22ms. Try closing some tabs and programs and clicking "Show preview" or "Show changes". If that doesn't work, try a different web browser, and if that doesn't work, try a faster computer.}}<br><br>
:::Ah well thanks for that link. Now I feel stupid for going to read the source code ]. On the other hand if the notices are being added through a template it would be possible to make certain messages editable by regular users (or at least auto-confirmed) by using a vivid array of parser-functions and template sub-pages. Strictly by the "it's a wiki, get over it" principle this wouldn't be a bad idea if the key intent is to at least partly replace <tt>&lt;!-- hidden html comments --&gt;</tt> which can be added or removed by anyone. I don't see it happening though. — ] 15:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
The threshold is probably set too low to being with, and most people couldn't care less about it taking 0.03s vs 0.02s, so to tell them that a mere 2/1000 sec difference is "not allowed" is pretty ridiculous. If someone really does have a slow computer, that's hardly by choice, and to tell them to try a faster one is like Captain Obvious rubbing salt into their wound. More often than not, it's not even the fault of the computer, but rather some background crap (thanks, MS!), or the browser, or simply a very large and complex page (and possibly even the (gasp) wiki JS code). Ideally this should be a pref configurable by the user. Or, they could click a button if they don't care about things being slightly slower on the current page as long as they can still get the highlighting (the way browsers pop up slow JS abort/continue messages; in this case it wouldn't be modal, of course). But I think mostly it's about the overly low threshold, because when a large page is taking a number of seconds to load anyway, a few extra thousandths for this hardly make a difference. ] (]) 16:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


:This seems to come from the Gadget ]. This is a user gadget and is not enabled by default here (but available for users to enable). You should report the issue to the author. But also see ] – ] (]) 16:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks to all. This will be helpful in maintaining list articles that have criteria for inclusion. --—<i><b>—&nbsp;]<font color = "darkblue">&nbsp;<sup>]</sup></font></b> - </i> 15:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks a lot, that will probably do it for me. I was uner the impression it was a standard feature. ] (]) 17:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Well there is a standard feature as well. You might even be using multiple. See ]. —] (] • ]) 09:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)


== How does VisualEditor know to classify a site as "News"? ==
:CharlotteWebb: Well, I too went reading the source code and figured out that the naming was something like "MediaWiki:Editnotice-Namespace-Pagename". But how to write the namespace and the pagename was not clear. So I decided to search with ] to see if someone else already had tried the different spellings. And thus I found the existing notices and the template used on them. Now afterwards I feel slightly silly since it would have been much simpler to use ] and search all namespaces for "editnotice".
:Gadget850: Yeah, this will be very useful. But I think the devs have been a bit too fast in deploying this one. Even though I have worked a lot with namespace detection I find it confusing to work with namespace numbers. Sure, it makes the server code simpler, but it can't be that much code to translate between local namespace names and the numbers. Using namespace names would be much more user-friendly.
:--] (]) 15:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::And the template is even more useful when I remove <code>#talkpagetext {display:none}</code> from my .css. I can't remember what I was testing with that. --—<i><b>—&nbsp;]<font color = "darkblue">&nbsp;<sup>]</sup></font></b> - </i> 16:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, it would probably better to omit the namespace number and just use the &#123;&#123;FULLPAGENAME&#125;&#125; e.g. "Editnotice-Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)" instead of "Editnotice-4-Village_pump_(technical)". — ] 16:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::If we want to have the naming convention changed it should be done now, not after we have thousands of these message pages. — ] 16:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I would favour this change, assuming there's no technical problem with it. Has anyone posted it to Bugzilla yet? ] 18:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm sure the impending response would be "but namespace titles might change, especially on foreign language projects with incomplete ] is incomplete (or at least needing better translation by a more fluent speaker)", however I doubt a project would reach the point where it needs Editnotice pages (certainly not in a level of bulk where renaming the namespaces would be a big deal) without already having high volume of editing and hopefully a critical mass of native/near-native speakers who have already straightened out all the L10n issues. But I could be wrong. Even so it would be easy enough to automatically rename directly from the database whenever namespace are changed.
::::I have asked Krimpet to comment here as she is the one who created this feature. — ] 19:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


How does the VisualEditor know to classify a site as News for the purposes of using {{tl|cite news}} instead of {{tl|cite web}}? I have noticed that for, say, ] it'll classify it with {{tl|cite news}} but for Politico it'll do {{tl|cite web}}. I have wondered for some time and did a string search of the repo for VE but can't find any reference to "nytimes". Does anyone know where this list that dictates the outcome exists? ] <sup>]</sup> 17:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
(Could this be applied/adapted to the request at ]? I would guess not, from the implementation explanation , but someone who knows ''this'' might be able to help me with ''that''. :) -- ] (]) 18:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not sure which software is currently used but https://github.com/zotero/translators/ has the large to process url's from nytimes.com in various ways. It involves a lot more than adding the url to a list. ] (]) 18:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
:Guessing not would be correct. — ] 19:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:There is no list. Visual Editor uses a tool called Zotero (trough Citoid). Websites specify themselves as being an newsite through metadata on their own pages. There are several metadata formats that websites use, one of those was made by Facebook. Some websites have website specific instructions made by Zotero called translators that specificly say that that website is a newssite, . A website that does not have metadata that defines itself as a newssite or a translator is defined as an webpage.
:As for your specific example, has its own translator, where as Politico does not. Politico actually defines itself in it's own metadata as a webpage (<code><meta property="og:type" content="website"></code>). ] (]) 18:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
::And once that definition is found it is mapped to the configs, see ] for more on that part. — ] <sup>]</sup> 18:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== Different assets for light and dark mode? ==
== Create protection failure ==


Is there any way to tell Misplaced Pages to display different images / media for Light vs Dark mode users? If not, could this be added in the form of a template, something like this?
{{la|You Me At Six}} was created again, but the log shows that it was protected against creation on July 20, not to expire until Oct 20. What's up?] (]) 15:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
<pre>{{adaptive|lightmode=]|darkmode=]}}</pre>
:It was created at ] and moved by ] (who is an admin). ] 15:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Ah. Left a note with Deb pointing out her mistake.] (]) 16:19, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


Due to transparency, some SVG and PNG images have bad contrast when viewed in Dark mode.
== Please advise on tl-something templates ==


(repost from ] as they said would be better here)
From what I know, we've got <code><nowiki>{{tl|</nowiki></code>, <code><nowiki>{{tl2|</nowiki></code>, <code><nowiki>{{tlx|</nowiki></code>, <code><nowiki>{{tlnull|</nowiki></code> - when are we meant to use one, and when the other? Please help! ] (]) 16:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:Usage notes are provided at ]. –<font face="Verdana">] (])</font> 16:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::I understand, but I don't find the instructions there very clear, to be honest. For instance, what is the difference between <code><nowiki>{{tl2|</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>{{tlx|</nowiki></code>? ] (]) 17:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Tl2 is for linking to other langs/projects, Tlx is so that you can show some parameters. –<font face="Verdana">] (])</font> 18:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::::OK, and what about <code><nowiki>{{tnull|</nowiki></code>? I'm sure I saw it somewhere. ] (]) 07:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::From ] - ''Tnull is used to nullify templates in the monospaced font''. It's used for stuff like {{tl|helpme}} after you've helped the user, you nullify the template. –<font face="Verdana">] (])</font> 10:23, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::I see - thanks! ] (]) 13:21, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


] (]) 04:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
== Heading structure broken ==


:It would have to be hardcoded in CSS. Dark mode is configured on CSS pages through ]. In order to specify a dark and light mode image in a template like that, ] would have to be fixed first. ] (]) 05:07, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Just a heads-up, as I've also been advised to take the following to MediaWiki. Per ]:
:Have you tried using class=skin-invert-image already ? —] (] • ]) 09:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{tl|If dark}} can be used to select what wikitext to display based on whether or not dark mode is enabled. ] (]) 23:19, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
::Usage of which really should be avoided though. —] (] • ]) 10:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I agree that generally speaking, specific colours shouldn't be specified in wikitext, and using the CSS class to ] simplifies maintenance by having just one image. There are cases, such as a company logo with a variant designed for dark mode, where the ability to choose the appropriate image is desirable. ] (]) 17:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


== Editnotice help ==
The heading structure on every page appears to be broken. There is an H1 (the page title) immediately followed by an H3 ("" - which isn't even a heading, and should probably be marked up as a paragraph); and the page ends with a bunch of H5s ("Views", "Personal tools", "Navigation", "Search", "Interaction", "Toolbox") with no parent other than H1 (and the last headings in the article, which are not meant to apply to it).


I'm trying to create an editnotice that checks if I'm on a JavaScript or CSS file in my userspace that doesn't begin with "User:JJPMaster/Scripts", in order to warn me that scripts should go to that page's subpages instead of just being willy-nilly in my userspace. However, I got a little carried away and made ], which always returns false. Could anyone help explain what I did wrong? ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 18:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Headings should follow a strict hierarchy, H1 > H2 > H3, and so on. ] says:


:Note: I haven't yet added the message that actually warns me. So far, it just is supposed to return "yes" if the conditions apply, and "no" if they don't. ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 18:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
<blockquote>3.5 Use header elements to convey document structure and use them according to specification. <br />For example, in HTML, use H2 to indicate a subsection of H1. Do not use headers for font effects. ()</blockquote>
::Never mind, I figured it out. See ]. ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 18:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
:Yikes, you should use a Lua module for complex computation like that. – ] (]) 22:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)


== Google Indexing Issue for Camdenmusique ==
and:


Hi, I’m seeking help with the "Camdenmusique" article, which isn’t appearing in Google search results. Could someone please review the article or provide insights on why it might not be indexed? Thank you! ] (]) 05:24, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
<blockquote>Since some users skim through a document by navigating its headings, it is important to use them appropriately to convey document structure. Users should order heading elements properly. For example, in HTML, H2 elements should follow H1 elements, H3 elements should follow H2 elements, etc. Content developers should not "skip" levels (e.g., H1 directly to H3). Do not use headings to create font effects; use style sheets to change font styles for example. ()</blockquote>


:This page is currently in draft space, which is why it is not being indexed. Search engines only index pages in the article space that are marked as patrolled by a new page reviewer, or those that are unpatrolled but are 90 days old. – ] <small>(])</small> 07:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
See also ]. ] | ] 17:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Ah I see thank you for your help! The article was previously in main space but was recently converted to draft space by an editor. ] (]) 08:26, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


== ] ==
:{{bug|457}} —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp; ]) 21:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


I am posting this here in hopes of getting more eyes. I am using this on ]—specifically, <nowiki>{{current time|UTC-8}}</nowiki>—and the way it's set up, it displays {{tq|Current time for UTC-8 is 22:52}}. And, of course, if daylight savings is in effect, I make that UTC-7. Is there a way to use 12-hour format instead and change it to only show the time instead of the whole "current time for..." such as 10:52 PM? Because the infobox parameter is already called current time, having "current time for..." is superfluous, and since in my case I already list my time zone above, the "...for UTC-7/8" is also superfluous. Is there a way to do this, and if not with this template, with another one? Thanks. ''']''' • 06:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Thank you - you beat me to it, because I am ''still'' waiting for my bugzilla registration confirmation e-mail to arrive. It's very disappointing to see that the bug was raised on 12 September 2004, just short of 4 years ago, and yet a fix has not yet been implemented. ] | ] 21:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


:@]: You can customize this template in your userspace and use it. I can set it up for you if you'd like. – ] <small>(])</small> 07:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::: You realize that there are for MediaWiki and Wikimedia? What exactly makes you think that every problem is likely to get fixed within four years of being reported? This particular one doesn't cause any real problem that I've heard of, but fixing it would break all sorts of user scripts and custom styles. —] (]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 14:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:It's a long time since I thought about it, but if someone doesn't provide the ], {{tl|extract}} seems to work: <code><nowiki>{{extract|currentdatetime|add=-8h|show=%X}}</nowiki></code> → {{extract|currentdatetime|add=-8h|show=%X}}. ] (]) 07:22, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:: {{edit conflict}} {{Re|DreamRimmer}} Thank you for the reply. If you could just show me how so I can learn, that would be appreciated. I took a look at the template page, and it doesn't show any way to customize it, like other template pages do, so I thought maybe it would require some coding on my common.js page: ]. All I want it to show is the time in 12-hour format: 11:38 PM. I'm also possibly looking at a way to add the current date parameter and template. I think I could use a custom field for the parameter and ] for the template. While I don't see it on the page, I'm sure there's a way to customize it so the month comes first. ''']''' • 07:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:: {{Re|Johnuniq}} Thank you also for the reply. That would work as well. Is there a way to make the AM/PM capitals? ''']''' • 07:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@]: I have created ]. You can now use <code><nowiki>{{User:Amaury/Time|UTC-8|d=n}}</nowiki></code> to display the time, like 08:03 AM. If you set the 'd' parameter to 'y' (<code><nowiki>{{User:Amaury/Time|UTC-8|d=y}}</nowiki></code>), it will show both the time and date, like 08:03 AM, January 3, 2025. – ] <small>(])</small> 08:15, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::: {{Re|DreamRimmer}} Thank you. I'll take a look through it when I can, as it's late here, and follow up on your talk page with any questions. ''']''' • 08:34, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:You could also try this: <code><nowiki>{{#time: g:i A|now-8 hours}}</nowiki></code> → {{#time: g:i A|now-8 hours}}. ] (]) 08:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


{{od|1}} This isn't specifically related to this, but it is semi-related and also applies to the template mentioned here. I also don't want to create another section just for this. I've always had problems with anything related to time for as long as I can remember. Is there a way to have my user page and talk page automatically constantly purge the page cache? Because, at least on my user page, I've been having to constantly manually purge the page cache in order to make the time actually show the current time. So, in theory, I would have to do this every single minute. For example, it is currently 1:47 PM here, and my user page is still stuck on 12:31 PM, which is when I temporarily went back to what I was using before creating this section, while my talk page did eventually update at 1:27 PM, but has gotten stuck again and is still saying that. ''']''' • 21:47, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::::It causes the real problem that you will have heard of, when you read the cited WCAG guidance, above. Where did I say that I thought that ''every'' problem would be resolved within four years? If your latter assertion is true, then the lesson is to be stricter in adhering to such guidelines in the first place. ] (aka Pigsonthewing); ]; ] 00:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:You would need a Javascript user script to update the time periodically. Regenerating the page on the server is a bit of overkill; it would be more efficient for the script to just update the time displayed on your user page. Just curious: is your workflow facilitated by looking at your user page for the current time rather than using another method? ] (]) 22:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:: {{Re|Isaacl}} Are you asking if I use it specifically for the work I do on Misplaced Pages? If so, no. I just have it on there just to have it there. Basically just as an interesting piece of info. ''']''' • 22:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:::@]: I have created a userscript to automatically purge your userpage and talk page. You can copy the code from ] and paste it into your ] file or create a separate script page and install it. The script will purge these pages every minute while they are loaded in your browser, and you can customize it to include additional pages or adjust the purge interval to suit your needs. – ] <small>(])</small> 07:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Pages don't auto-purge for a reason, namely that Misplaced Pages is designed to do as much caching as possible. One user doing a purge every minute won't be noticed, but people sometimes ask for a particular page to be purged regularly and they are told that it's not going to happen. ] (]) 08:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Noted! – ] <small>(])</small> 08:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Amaury}} You can add <code><nowiki>({{purge|refresh}})</nowiki></code> after the time to make a purge link saying ({{purge|refresh}}) for all viewers of the page. {{tl|current time}} is rather misleading without a purge link and should add it as an option. ] (]) 09:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::: {{Re|DreamRimmer|Johnuniq|PrimeHunter}} Thank you all for the help. You've all been incredibly helpful. :) ''']''' • 09:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::We should really have a template gadget for times and countdowns. – ] (]) 10:27, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::] ? ] (]) 11:47, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think most people prefer having their notifications unified as much as possible. Thus I can see a better case for building a notification feature in a Misplaced Pages app than into the web-based interface (as the web interface has no access to the underlying platform notification/timer APIs). ] (]) 17:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Not sure if you got the indentation wrong or if this is actually a response to my comment. What I meant is to have ] which is controlled by its parameters to show live time for any given time zone (enhancing the wikitext output of {{t|time}}, {{t|current time}}, {{t|current time in time zone}}, etc), to show live countdowns (enhancing the output of {{t|countdown}}), and so on. Apart from userspace use cases, it could be used on datetime-related articles like (eg. ]) where the live time seems more appropriate than one lagged by the parser cache and containing a refresh link. – ] (]) 17:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::I was responding to your comment, but a different use case more along the lines of the original post (user-customized timers and countdowns). I'd suggest that the live update capability be togglable, with the default being no extra moving text or client resource usage. Although personally I don't think a live up-to-the-second (or even minute) countdown is needed, I appreciate there is an audience for it. ] (]) 18:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


== LFP Template Els broken ==
== Registered in Misplaced Pages English, how to post article Misplaced Pages French ==


From what I see, {{tl|LFP Ligue 1}} and {{tl|LFP Ligue 2}} (and the corresponding wikidata properties) produce broken links, likely happened due to the new website. {{tl|LFP}} still works since it uses archive links, but the ~700 links from the other two are all broken. ] (]) 13:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
I am registered on the English Misplaced Pages site and have translated an article into French from an article I posted in English.


:From what I see, you're right! But, as you say, it's probably not the templates' fault; apparently the ] has changed its sites and left out the fun bits about the players. Therefore, there's not currently (AFAICS, on either the English or French versions) anything to which the templates can link.
However, the French Misplaced Pages does not appear to recognise my username/login. Do I have to register again? ] (]) 18:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
:I don't have a solution for you, except to maybe wait a bit and see if the LFP adds the players sections again. Was the site changed {{em|very}} recently? Maybe they're still working on it, and the players' stats pages will appear soon. Or not. Sorry! <i>&mdash;&nbsp;] (] / ])</i> 18:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:See ]. <font fmily="Comic sans">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 18:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
::Pretty sure the new website came with the ]. It's likely that it won't come back. ] (]) 08:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:] if the URL changed, ] if the templates are useless now. ] (]) 20:29, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::The URL is gone, but some can still be found using ], probably needs to be discussed at TfD if we want to change the templates or just remove them. ] (]) 08:51, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


== Log in ==
Thank you ] (]) 18:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


I'm trying to log in to https://meta.wikimedia.org/ so I can use the Misplaced Pages Library. The error I see is {{tq|"Incorrect username or password entered. Please try again."}} I tried changing my password, no luck. Then I logged out of Misplaced Pages and back in with the same credentials and everything's fine. What's wrong with the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki? -] (]) 16:22, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
== Page creation and deletion by namespace ==


:So it is working now? Likely had something wrong with a session cookie. — ] <sup>]</sup> 18:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Is there information available regarding one or more of the following?
::Thank you, yes meta-wiki says I'm logged in. -] (]) 18:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
#The total number of pages in each namespace;
#The number of pages created in a given time period (e.g. day, week, month), broken down by namespace; and
#The number of pages deleted in a given time period, broken down by namespace.
Since it's apparently possible to give an exact count of the number of non-orphaned articles (see ]), it should also be possible to do the same with other namespaces. However, despite all my searching, I've not been able to find this information anywhere. –''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 02:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:See ] for the first (seems to be disabled). I'm not sure about the rest. - ] 02:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::You can get a pretty good idea of #2 via ] for everything but articles. You'll have to set the feed high and then re-set it to get an exact count, but if you're just interested in the rate, dividing a given number of pages by the time period will give you that. It's no good for articles because there are so damn many of them and they get speedy deleted so quickly. I haven't done enough speedy deletion outside the article namespace to know how quickly that's done or what effect it would have.--] - ] 06:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


== Why are my userpage colors inverted? ==
If there is a point to this question, you can ask somebody with a toolserver account to run a few database queries. &mdash; ''']'''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'']'' 08:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


There seems to be a problem with my userpage, and all my colors are inverted. I looked for a high contrast setting in Misplaced Pages, but there was none. And I don't have the high contrast setting activated on my computer. Can someone help?
== Some Usercheck fields have stopped working ==


Thanks, ] (]) 20:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
I made a template fairly recently, {{tl|Usercheck-full}}, which combines the fields for users from all other Usercheck templates. However, some of its links have stopped working of late. Namely, the '''total''' link has stopped working, instead linking to a page which informs you that "query.php is dead" (this also means that {{tl|User11}}, where I got the code for the link from, has also stopped functioning correctly), and the '''summary''' link now just links to a page that says "Object not found!" (this also affects {{tl|User15}}). Please advise.
] (]) 09:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:The templates need to be updated to use . Query.php was shut down a few days ago. ] (]) 00:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:I made a copy of {{tl|User11}} and changed it. Does this work? {{:User:Franamax/Test10|It Is Me Here}} ] (]) 00:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


:@]: You probably enabled the ] without realizing. Try checking in ] ]<sub>]<sub>]</sub></sub> (]/]) 20:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
== Weird broken link. ==
::Just checked, it was already off, meaning it cant be that. ] (]) 20:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
:Probably ]. ] (]) 20:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


== Unanswered and not archived comments for a project ==
Can someone explain what was wrong with this edit?
I reverted it because it breaks the link on the "music" icon, but I can't figure out why.
Thanks. ] (]) 14:25, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:The image has another original size so the coordinates only select the upper left corner which can be clicked. ] (]) 14:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:: Aha! That did it. Thanks. I didn't realize it worked like that. ] (]) 16:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


Is there any way to get a feed of the above onto a page] (]) 03:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Looking for some listing tools ==


== Appending ?safemdode=1 alters infobox layout ==
I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I figure the people here can point me in the right direction. Over at ] we've been having a hard time keeping in sync the articles listed on that page and the articled tagged as being in an FT using {{tl|ArticleHistory}}. To keep these two in line with each other, I would like to find:
#A way to see a list of all the articles in ], its sub-categories, and sub-sub-categories in alphabetical order. This would let me see which articles are tagged with the ArticleHistory template.
#A way to see a list of all the articles linked on ] in alphabetical order.
With these two lists I would be able to quickly find the disagreement between the two, which currently can take a very long time to track down. I have a feeling that someone has arleady devised tools to do each of these functions, so can someone please tell me where to find them? Thank you. --] <small>(] • ])</small> 18:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


]
== English Misplaced Pages Internal Account Creation Interface ==
]
I've tested this logged out and the problem persists. Are we testing a new infobox style or something? ''']]''' 19:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


:It is because infobox styling comes from ]. There is currently ] to convert to infoboxes to use TemplateStyles, but that requires cleaning thousands of pages manually (see ]). <b>]]</b>&nbsp;(]&nbsp;•&nbsp;he/they) 19:42, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi guys! I'm trying to create an account on the English Misplaced Pages Internal Account Creation Interface. I entered in all of the information, clicked the second checkbox, skipped the signature box, and hit submit. I got something that looked like:
::{{ping|JayCubby}} <code>?safemode=1</code> omits reading ] and ] pages from the wiki, both sitewide like ] and personal like ]. See ]. I find it so useful for testing that I made ] to add a safemode link for the current page. A "suicidal" script which also prevents itself from loading when you activate it. I wonder whether some users have enabled "Always enable safe mode" at ] without knowing the effect on infoboxes and other things. ] (]) 20:21, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Ah, thanks. I didn't realize that safemode affected CSS (well I sort of did, but somehow differentiated the mainspace and important CSS from custom CSS, if that makes sense), merely user scripts.
:::This probably isn't a huge issue, but the current explanation for 'always enable safemode' is {{orange|Disable on-wiki scripts and stylesheets.}}, which could be changed to {{Aqua|Disable on-wiki scripts and stylesheets. May break page layout.}} ''']]''' 20:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Honestly think that's kind of assumed with "turns off CSS"..... ] (]) 20:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


== code editor character position counter? ==
"Query failed: INSERT INTO acc_user (user_name, user_email, user_pass, user_level, user_onwikiname, user_secure, user_welcome, user_welcome_sig, user_welcome_template) VALUES ('NuclearWarfare', 'EMAIL WAS HERE BUT I REMOVED IT', 'HASH WAS HERE BUT I REMOVED IT', 'New', 'NuclearWarfare', '0', '0', , 'welcome-personal'); ERROR: Unknown column 'user_secure' in 'field list' "


Where did it go? Used to be that the code editor displayed certain information in the lower right corner of the editing window among which was the character position from the right margin, character highlight info – number and position of characters selected, etc. Now gone?
Can anyone tell me what is wrong? I've read Misplaced Pages:Request an account/Guide over and I can't see what's wrong. Thanks for your help!


The CTRL+, configuration menu for the editor (version 1.32.7) doesn't appear to have a setting for this so that suggests that sommat else has happened? What happened and can it be undone?
(I was told to cross post this over to here, forgive me if I put it in the wrong place) <font color="amaranth">]</font>''''' <sup><font color="green">]</font></sup>'''''<sub><font color="purple">]</font></sub> 18:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


—] (]) 23:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Edit summary not working properly ==


:It was lost accidentally, and it will be back next week, see ]. ] <small>]</small> 00:07, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
When you change an edit summary to document changes to more than one section (as described at ]), only the last section name enclosed in "/* */" will be properly parsed. See and . This used to work properly. I am using Firefox 3.0.1 with several javascript apps in my monobook.js (I don't think this would be the problem, but I don't know for sure). — ] (]) 20:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:07, 5 January 2025

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List-defined refs

Hi, can anyone explain to me why this edit does not fix the ref name error at ref 507? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 19:02, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

@DuncanHill The ref name is "Gaza genocide CNN_22_October_2024" you'd just named it "CNN_22_October_2024" Nthep (talk) 19:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
@Nthep: Thanks, I hadn't realised that excerpt changed the refnames. Anyway, as I've been told by an admin not to proceed I won't fix any of the other errors in the article. I don't want an ARBPIA block for fixing refs. Obviously better to leave them broken. Nobody else seems to care anyway. DuncanHill (talk) 20:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Please do not make claims about me unless you can prove them. Nobody mentioned ARBPIA, and I certainly didn't play the admin card: my edit at Gaza genocide was made as an ordinary WP:XC user, a threshold that I passed way back in July 2009, more than two years before I became an admin. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 20:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
You, an admin, quoted CITEVAR at me telling me not to add LDR to an article I was editing. One I've edited several times to mend reference errors. Anyway, I won't try to fix the article again. DuncanHill (talk) 20:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I'm an admin; but where did I mention that? Did I do anything that might be construed as "I'm an admin so my edit trumps yours"? Also, I didn't quote CITEVAR, I linked it. It's an editing guideline that we are all expected to follow. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 20:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Your sig is highlighted in blue like all the other admins. DuncanHill (talk) 20:36, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
It's not a MediaWiki default feature, you probably have some gadget installed that does that (possibly User:Amalthea/userhighlighter.js); these gadgets cannot distinguish between edits made using admin permissions (such as editing a fully-protected page) and those which anybody, even the total newbies, can make (such as this post). I certainly don't have any special tool that marks some edits as admin edits and not others. In any case, my sig here is exactly the same as all the other sigs that I have left on any other discussion page since 00:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC), whether I have my admin hat on or not. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 21:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
And your name is highlighted in blue on my watchlist, like all other admins. I wasn't talking about "edits made using admin permissions". You, an admin, told me "do not add WP:LDRs to articles that previously had none, this goes against WP:CITEVAR". DuncanHill (talk) 21:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict) But I didn't do so with my admin hat on, I did so as a watcher of WP:VPT. That's what I'm saying here. I can't turn the admin bit off and on at whim (that's a WP:CRAT action), not even according to whether I need to use admin rights or not. The rights are just there, all of the time, and have been since 2011. For example, on a fully-protected page, I get an "Edit" tab and not a "View source" tab, but I also get a pink box stating "Note: This page is protected so that only users with administrative rights can make edits." It's like a WP:30/500 page: you and I both get the pink box stating "Note: This page is extended-confirmed protected so that only users with extended confirmed rights can make edits." When I edit such pages, I do so with my WP:XC hat on; and when I edit VPT, I do so hatless. One thing the admin right does not do is give my edits any greater weight. Any XC user could have made the fix that I did, and given the explanation that I did. If you feel that I am guilty of a misuse of the rights that come with the admin bit, you know what to do. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 21:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
When an admin says "do not do x" to a non-admin, then THEY ARE WEARING THEIR ADMIN HAT. It's not about "using your admin rights", it's about the fact that you are an admin. DuncanHill (talk) 22:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
This page is unprotected, anybody (who has read that guideline) could have written a post similar (if not identical) to mine. If I had preceded my post with a phrase such as "As an administrator, I must warn you that ...", you might have a point. But I didn't. This page has more than 3,600 watchers; I can't find out who they are (except for myself), but I suspect that some are admins and some not. The rights of a person making a post shouldn't make any difference to how that post is interpreted. Unless, of course, somebody posts in a manner that implies that they have a right that in reality, they don't. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 22:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
But not anybody wrote it, an admin wrote it. You can't tell people "do not" and then pretend you weren't an admin when you said it. If it really upsets you that people know you are an admin then resign. DuncanHill (talk) 23:00, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm not pretending not to be an admin; I'm saying that the edit was done without recourse to the admin toolkit. It doesn't upset me that people know I'm an admin (it's right there on my user page), but apparently it upsets you. You can't expect an admin to do nothing but block, delete and protect: at some point admins will want to make a perfectly ordinary edit. If you are upset that you have found out that some editors also happen to be admins, uninstall that gadget that you seem to be using. Then we'll all look the same again. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 23:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
This isn't about you using the toolkit or not. It's the fact that you are an admin so when you give an instruction it is an instruction given by an admin. An admin - you - told me "do not add WP:LDRs to articles that previously had none, this goes against WP:CITEVAR". I folowed the instruction the admin had given me. DuncanHill (talk) 00:07, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
AN report filed. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 00:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
@DuncanHill and Nthep:That's not it at all. The problem is that almost the whole of the "Genocide" section is transcluded from the lead section of Gaza genocide, except for that article's infobox (and certain other preliminary matter); and the ref concerned was defined inside the infobox. Moving it outside the infobox fixes it.
BTW: please do not add WP:LDRs to articles that previously had none, this goes against WP:CITEVAR. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 19:43, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
@Redrose64: How else do I fix the broken refnames? That wasn't the only one. DuncanHill (talk) 19:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict) You brought one specific issue to this problem board, which I fixed, and this is the thanks that I get for that. So, despite your claim that they are responsible for all that remain, I don't see why I should fix any more for you. Please note that you have not been forbiddedn from fixing refname errors in this article by Redrose64. If there is any responsibility, it should lie with those who introduced the error in the first place, which certainly was not me. In short: problems should be fixed at source, not somewhere down the chain. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 20:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
@Redrose64: You told me not to use list-defined refs, even though this seems to be the only way of fixing the refname errors in the article. I am not going around looking for fucking horrible referencing systems to add to random articles for the hell of it, all I am trying to do is fix problems when I see them. Can you do me a favour? Next time I ask for help just ignore me. We'll both be happier, and probably things will get fixed faster. DuncanHill (talk) 20:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Please read what I wrote. I didn't tell you not to use list-defined refs, I directed you to a guideline that says not to change the article's established referencing style. In my edit to Gaza genocide (linked above), I demonstrated that LDRs are not the only way of fixing the refname errors in the article. If you have other problems of a similar nature, please list them and the watchers of this page will endeavour to help, but don't expect them to do so if you are going to treat them the way that you treat me.
In short: if you don't want help from the people who hang around a help desk, don't ask at that help desk. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 20:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
I want help from helpful people. I didn't ask you to fix anything, I asked why my edit hadn't worked. I intended, having sorted the first one out, to go ahead an fix the other errors myself. You came down on me with "do not add WP:LDRs to articles that previously had none, this goes against WP:CITEVAR". So are you now saying I can ignore that? DuncanHill (talk) 20:35, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
To quote from my very first reply here: The problem is that almost the whole of the "Genocide" section is transcluded from the lead section of Gaza genocide, except for that article's infobox ... and the ref concerned was defined inside the infobox. Moving it outside the infobox fixes it. There you go: an explanation of what the problem was, plus directions on how to fix. Now, what else have I omitted to provide you with? --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 21:21, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Will that work for all the others in the article? DuncanHill (talk) 21:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
No, scrub that, Redrose64 - PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HELP ME. It's really unpleasant now. DuncanHill (talk) 21:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
OK, shall I take myself to WP:AN? --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 22:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
  • This is a bit ridiculous, especially as that article still has citation errors caused by faulty transclusion. Adding list defined refs to solve the citation error it better than having a citation error. Yes CITEVAR, but this is a perfect case to remember IAR. Having large red error messages is obviously worse than not having large red error messages. If another editor wants to fix the issue by editing the article being transcluded fine, but that is not always possible as some articles are transcludsd multiple times. Fixing it in the original article may then break it in others. Ultimately the responsibility to make sure these errors don't exist is on those setting up the transclusion, rather an editor trying to make the encyclopedia better by removing obvious large error messages. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    Also per WP:CITEVAR fixing errors in citation coding isn't a CITEVAR violation. If the fix isn't to your liking then per CITEVAR Do not revert someone else's contribution merely because the citation style doesn't match. If you know how to fix it, then fix it. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I did fix it, and also fixed it in a manner that does not change the citation style in either the thranscluding article or the transcluded article; nor will it break any other articles that transclude it. In so doing I am not aware that I reverted anybody. Please show which edit I reverted. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 14:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I don't say you revertex. The bit I highlighted was that if you don't like the fix that has been done then do it another way, fixing the issue is more important than how the source code looks. Criticising someone for making a fix is counterproductive, even if you dislike how they fixed the issue. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 15:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @ActivelyDisinterested: I'm confused, Did I make the right fix, or not? --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 01:21, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Why does the account go out?

Moved from Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals) § Why does the account go out? – Aaron Liu (talk) 00:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is my Misplaced Pages account getting kicked out every hour or every day or every minute? (Strait WikiN (talk) 11:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC))

Do you allow cookies on your device? 331dot (talk) 11:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes. I gave permission. To delete cookies or not to delete t Strait WikiN (talk) 14:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Possibly related to phab:T372702? @Strait WikiN please confirm. NightWolf1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 00:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
What do I confirm? Thank you. (Strait WikiN (talk) 02:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC))
They were asking you to confirm whether or not the recent bug fix linked above had resolved your issue. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Help with Template:Album chart

I'm trying to use {{Album chart}} at Draft:So Medieval. The album charted on the UK Official Record Store Chart (link to the specific week), but I can't see that in the documentation anywhere, and the docs don't say how to specify a custom chart in manual mode. Using "UK" as the identifier in automatic mode instead links to ...artist/_/Blue Bendy instead of the actual page for the artist, ...artist/blue-bendy. I'd just do the table manually, but I honestly don't know how tables work in wikitext, and I don't feel like learning unless I have to. Could I get some help formatting the template to get this to work? Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 03:24, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi Suntooooth. Apologies to all for the unindented response. Four things:

  1. If you know you're having trouble with a template like {{Album chart}}, you can ask for help at that template's talk page
  2. For help with tables, you could start at Help:Table, but you said you don't want to learn about that. Unfornately, the template you're trying to use (or get help with) is intended for use in a table, so you'll probably want some proficiency sometime. I've included a sample Charts section below.
  3. The real problem isn't so much technical; it's that you are trying to cite a position on a not-too-notable chart. That is, we have no article for it, and it's not listed at WP:GOODCHART, so it's not too surprising it's not currently supported by {{Album chart}}.
  4. To resolve the content problem, the place to seek consensus is Misplaced Pages talk:Record charts. You'll need to explain your intention and maybe why that chart is more (or as) worthy as UK Albums Chart (which is supported by {{Album chart}}). I looked in the talk page's archive for Record Store Chart and didn't find anything. Possibly it's not been discussed before.

Here's that sample section I mentioned, for illustration only. It uses (1) the Album chart template with |UK2=, giving a fictitious citation. It also uses (2) a manual citation which provides a citation to a non-notable chart. I recommend you use neither of these; this is just so you can see how it would look.

Charts

2024 weekly chart performance for So Medieval
Chart (2024) Peak
position
UK Albums (OCC) not 33
UK Official Record Store Chart (OCC) 33

References

  1. "Official Albums Chart Top 100". Official Charts Company. Retrieved 2 January 2025.
  2. "Official Record Store Chart". Official Charts Company. Retrieved 2 January 2025.

Good luck and happy editing. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 23:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed response! Per this and a concurrent discussion at WP:ALBUMS, I've brought this up over at the talk page for WP:CHARTS in order to gauge if the chart would be suitable for articles. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 12:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Source editing

Hey can we stop having the source html diffs intermix removed text with added thereby making it impossible to read or copy/paste?

It makes it really difficult when a ref gets broken, and we need to get it from the previous edit, but we can’t copy from the visual and the source text is yellow mixed inseparably with blue. Snokalok (talk) 17:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Go into desktop mode rather than using the mobile view while on a mobile device. You can find the choice for this at the very bottom of the screen. StarryGrandma (talk) 19:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Update Help pages as "Search" button changed in Vector Skin 2022

FYI – Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere. Neutral advertising as there has been little response.

In the desktop version, the magnifying glass "Go" button to click to search link has been replaced by the "Search" button at the top of every page in the default Vector skin (2022). But most help pages have not reflected this change. Please see Help talk:Contents#"Search" button changed in Vector Skin 2022. waddie96 ★ (talk) 09:00, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

How to get technical help if requested but not replied to

Around the 14th of this month, I asked for help in a request entitled "Cursor jumping" but never got a reply. Around that same time, I had some medical issues and was eventually hospitalized. The request was archived. I'd like to follow up on it now because it's extremely time-consuming when writing and responding to messages in Misplaced Pages when I'm on my computer. The problem doesn't happen on my cell phone or anywhere else on my computer except in Misplaced Pages.

There were two other help requests that are similarly in need of continued help ("Mystery sticky notes" and "Another mystery"), but let's start with this one. Augnablik (talk) 11:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's been said that the best way to get an answer to a question on the Internet is, not to ask the question, but to post the wrong answer to the question. Uporządnicki (talk) 11:48, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
@Augnablik: Please visit this link, try writing something, and let me know if you are still facing this issue. – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
@DreamRimmer, the link goes to my sandbox (???). If that's what you intended, then no, what I described doesn't happen there. It's only when I'm writing or replying to messages. Augnablik (talk) 12:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, this was intended to check if the issue occurs in safe mode. Please try resetting your preferences. – DreamRimmer (talk) 13:05, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
Resetting my preferences to what? I surely didn’t set any preferences to do these annoying things! Augnablik (talk) 13:33, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
Could be the same issue as Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)/Archive 208#When editing, pressing shift causes cursor to jumps to start of edit text box. If you have enabled the Google translate gadget, try disabling it. Nardog (talk) 13:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
Oh, yikes — I’d hate to do that because I use Translate often. 😓
But it’s not just the Shift key that makes the cursor jump; it’s also still other keys like “ ‘ — plus a few more I wrote about in my original message several weeks ago. Augnablik (talk) 15:39, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
Well, @Nardog, it turns out that I don't have Google Translate on my computer, only my phone. So that's not the culprit affecting my jumpy cursor when working on messages in Misplaced Pages. Any other ideas? Augnablik (talk) 16:26, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm talking about the "GoogleTrans" gadget. You can't have it only on your phone and not on your computer, unless you log into different accounts on those devices. Nardog (talk) 04:21, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
@Nardog, I'm beginning to get a glimmer of an idea of what you're talking about. I still don't quite understand what a gadget is, but here's what I do know: that on my computer, when I'm on Google Drive or in a Google-driven e-mail account, I see Google Translate in what I think is called the "dot menu" as one of a number of available programs I can use (I forgot it was there because I guess I haven't used it much on my computer) ... but when I'm on my cell phone, I see a separate icon for Google Translate. And you want me to do something to un-enable Google Translate on my computer. How do I do that?
I translate a lot on my cell phone, but if I want to use the program on my computer is it really necessary not to have access to Google Translate in order to use Misplaced Pages in peace? There are some other weird things going on when I write or edit messages in Misplaced Pages besides the jumpy cursor that I described in one of the earlier messages I also submitted some weeks back here at the Village Pump technical question place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Augnablik (talk • contribs) 05:00, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Follow this link and locate the fifth item " GoogleTrans: open a translation popup for the selected text or the word under the cursor when pushing the shift button". If it's checked, uncheck it and click "Save". I'm not talking about translation feature or extension on your devices and those have likely nothing to do with your symptom, even if the GoogleTrans gadget (which isn't on your devices) wasn't the culprit either. Nardog (talk) 06:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
@Nardog, Did that, although the " GoogleTrans: open a translation popup for the selected text or the word under the cursor when pushing the shift button" item was third on my screen. It had been checked, so I unchecked it and saved the change.) At first, I thought what you asked me to do had worked because there was no more cursor jumping for maybe 7 or 8 sentences. But now it's still going on.  : 0
I forgot to mention that sometimes, like in the short last sentence I wrote, the initial capital letter also jumps back to the beginning of another sentence, not always the previous one. Other times, like in this sentence, that doesn't happen. Augnablik (talk) 08:11, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Free High Quality PDFs of Misplaced Pages Articles

Hi,

on

https://mediawiki2latex.wmcloud.org/

you can get high quality PDF versions of Misplaced Pages articles for free in seconds. EPUB, ODT and LaTeX versions are also possible.

For more details on the underlying open source project see b:de:Benutzer:Dirk Hünniger/wb2pdf or the presentation File:Wb2pdfTalk.ogv

Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

Yours Dirk Hünniger (talk) 11:58, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Group changes by page in contributions

Is there a way of grouping changes by page in contributions (in the same way this works in my watchlist)? If there is, this would greatly help me in checking for any unfinished editing tasks that I have meant to come back to, but have not. (With the impending New Year, this is a standard housekeeping task for me.) ThoughtIdRetired TIR 19:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

@ThoughtIdRetired: It's not part of the MediaWiki software, so is not available as a preference. But it should be possible for a JavaScript expert to write a gadget that will do what you want. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 01:17, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:User scripts/List#Contributions gives you User:BrandonXLF/ContribsByPage. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:41, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

citation needed tag with year 2025

I tried adding citation needed tag for 2025 and it shows up as ".Category:Articles with unsourced statements from January 2025" in the article. Am I missing something or is it because something is missing if we use year 2025. Asteramellus (talk) 13:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Issue on Bhagavad Gita fixed, looks like from where copied the template, category already exists as required. Indagate (talk) 13:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Oh ok. Thanks! I have always used the Template for Citation needed - e.g. when I use that template, it has subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME subst:CURRENTYEAR and I usually change the month/year. Wonder why it didn't work now. Asteramellus (talk) 13:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
@Asteramellus: If you changed it manually then I guess you just wrote it wrong. Your edit saved {{Citation needed|date=January {{subst:2025}}}}. I see you used VisualEditor. You don't have to change anything there when you add {{citation needed}}. Just add the template and the subst code will automatically be transformed to the current month and year when you save the edit. I guess you accidentally changed {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}} to {{subst:2025}} without removing {{subst:}}. That would produce the code in your edit. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
yes thanks! Asteramellus (talk) 14:49, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Each year someone creates a template like Template:2025 to DWIM for people who get confused in that manner. No one had created the 2025 template yet; now I have. Anomie⚔ 16:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
I didn't know such templates were created. I see we also have {{January}} to {{December}} for the same reason. So Asteramellus did as usual and never discovered it was wrong because we compensate for the error. It reminds me of Category:Misplaced Pages magic word templates with various templates like {{DEFAULTSORT}} to compensate for users who incorrectly use template syntax instead of magic word syntax. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:32, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Can we do something about the ridiculous message displayed whenever syntax highlighting is taking "too long"?

Syntax highlighting on this page was disabled because it took too long. The maximum allowed highlighting time is 20ms, and your computer took 22ms. Try closing some tabs and programs and clicking "Show preview" or "Show changes". If that doesn't work, try a different web browser, and if that doesn't work, try a faster computer.

The threshold is probably set too low to being with, and most people couldn't care less about it taking 0.03s vs 0.02s, so to tell them that a mere 2/1000 sec difference is "not allowed" is pretty ridiculous. If someone really does have a slow computer, that's hardly by choice, and to tell them to try a faster one is like Captain Obvious rubbing salt into their wound. More often than not, it's not even the fault of the computer, but rather some background crap (thanks, MS!), or the browser, or simply a very large and complex page (and possibly even the (gasp) wiki JS code). Ideally this should be a pref configurable by the user. Or, they could click a button if they don't care about things being slightly slower on the current page as long as they can still get the highlighting (the way browsers pop up slow JS abort/continue messages; in this case it wouldn't be modal, of course). But I think mostly it's about the overly low threshold, because when a large page is taking a number of seconds to load anyway, a few extra thousandths for this hardly make a difference. 61.84.123.149 (talk) 16:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

This seems to come from the Gadget mw:User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter. This is a user gadget and is not enabled by default here (but available for users to enable). You should report the issue to the author. But also see mw:User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter#Timeout – Ammarpad (talk) 16:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, that will probably do it for me. I was uner the impression it was a standard feature. 61.84.123.149 (talk) 17:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Well there is a standard feature as well. You might even be using multiple. See WP:HILITE. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

How does VisualEditor know to classify a site as "News"?

How does the VisualEditor know to classify a site as News for the purposes of using {{cite news}} instead of {{cite web}}? I have noticed that for, say, The New York Times it'll classify it with {{cite news}} but for Politico it'll do {{cite web}}. I have wondered for some time and did a string search of the repo for VE but can't find any reference to "nytimes". Does anyone know where this list that dictates the outcome exists? TheSandDoctor 17:26, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure which software is currently used but https://github.com/zotero/translators/ has the large NYTimes.com.js to process url's from nytimes.com in various ways. It involves a lot more than adding the url to a list. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
There is no list. Visual Editor uses a tool called Zotero (trough Citoid). Websites specify themselves as being an newsite through metadata on their own pages. There are several metadata formats that websites use, one of those was made by Facebook. Some websites have website specific instructions made by Zotero called translators that specificly say that that website is a newssite, repo here. A website that does not have metadata that defines itself as a newssite or a translator is defined as an webpage.
As for your specific example, New York has its own translator, where as Politico does not. Politico actually defines itself in it's own metadata as a webpage (<meta property="og:type" content="website">). Snævar (talk) 18:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
And once that definition is found it is mapped to the configs, see mw:VisualEditor/Citation tool for more on that part. — xaosflux 18:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Different assets for light and dark mode?

Is there any way to tell Misplaced Pages to display different images / media for Light vs Dark mode users? If not, could this be added in the form of a template, something like this? 

{{adaptive|lightmode=]|darkmode=]}}

Due to transparency, some SVG and PNG images have bad contrast when viewed in Dark mode.

(repost from WP:TH as they said would be better here)

CrushedAsian255 (talk) 04:38, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

It would have to be hardcoded in CSS. Dark mode is configured on CSS pages through templatestyles. In order to specify a dark and light mode image in a template like that, Phab:T320322 would have to be fixed first. Snævar (talk) 05:07, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Have you tried using class=skin-invert-image already ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
{{If dark}} can be used to select what wikitext to display based on whether or not dark mode is enabled. isaacl (talk) 23:19, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Usage of which really should be avoided though. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I agree that generally speaking, specific colours shouldn't be specified in wikitext, and using the CSS class to trigger colour inversion by the dark mode feature simplifies maintenance by having just one image. There are cases, such as a company logo with a variant designed for dark mode, where the ability to choose the appropriate image is desirable. isaacl (talk) 17:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Editnotice help

I'm trying to create an editnotice that checks if I'm on a JavaScript or CSS file in my userspace that doesn't begin with "User:JJPMaster/Scripts", in order to warn me that scripts should go to that page's subpages instead of just being willy-nilly in my userspace. However, I got a little carried away and made this monstrosity, which always returns false. Could anyone help explain what I did wrong? JJPMaster (she/they) 18:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Note: I haven't yet added the message that actually warns me. So far, it just is supposed to return "yes" if the conditions apply, and "no" if they don't. JJPMaster (she/they) 18:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Never mind, I figured it out. See Special:Permalink/1266891366. JJPMaster (she/they) 18:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Yikes, you should use a Lua module for complex computation like that. – SD0001 (talk) 22:00, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Google Indexing Issue for Camdenmusique

Hi, I’m seeking help with the "Camdenmusique" article, which isn’t appearing in Google search results. Could someone please review the article or provide insights on why it might not be indexed? Thank you! GD234 (talk) 05:24, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

This page is currently in draft space, which is why it is not being indexed. Search engines only index pages in the article space that are marked as patrolled by a new page reviewer, or those that are unpatrolled but are 90 days old. – DreamRimmer (talk) 07:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Ah I see thank you for your help! The article was previously in main space but was recently converted to draft space by an editor. GD234 (talk) 08:26, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Template:Current time

I am posting this here in hopes of getting more eyes. I am using this on my user page—specifically, {{current time|UTC-8}}—and the way it's set up, it displays Current time for UTC-8 is 22:52. And, of course, if daylight savings is in effect, I make that UTC-7. Is there a way to use 12-hour format instead and change it to only show the time instead of the whole "current time for..." such as 10:52 PM? Because the infobox parameter is already called current time, having "current time for..." is superfluous, and since in my case I already list my time zone above, the "...for UTC-7/8" is also superfluous. Is there a way to do this, and if not with this template, with another one? Thanks. Amaury • 06:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@Amaury: You can customize this template in your userspace and use it. I can set it up for you if you'd like. – DreamRimmer (talk) 07:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
It's a long time since I thought about it, but if someone doesn't provide the #time magic syntax, {{extract}} seems to work: {{extract|currentdatetime|add=-8h|show=%X}} → 4:08 pm. Johnuniq (talk) 07:22, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @DreamRimmer: Thank you for the reply. If you could just show me how so I can learn, that would be appreciated. I took a look at the template page, and it doesn't show any way to customize it, like other template pages do, so I thought maybe it would require some coding on my common.js page: User:Amaury/common.js. All I want it to show is the time in 12-hour format: 11:38 PM. I'm also possibly looking at a way to add the current date parameter and template. I think I could use a custom field for the parameter and Template:Currentdate for the template. While I don't see it on the page, I'm sure there's a way to customize it so the month comes first. Amaury • 07:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
@Johnuniq: Thank you also for the reply. That would work as well. Is there a way to make the AM/PM capitals? Amaury • 07:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
@Amaury: I have created User:Amaury/Time. You can now use {{User:Amaury/Time|UTC-8|d=n}} to display the time, like 08:03 AM. If you set the 'd' parameter to 'y' ({{User:Amaury/Time|UTC-8|d=y}}), it will show both the time and date, like 08:03 AM, January 3, 2025. – DreamRimmer (talk) 08:15, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
@DreamRimmer: Thank you. I'll take a look through it when I can, as it's late here, and follow up on your talk page with any questions. Amaury • 08:34, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
You could also try this: {{#time: g:i A|now-8 hours}} → 4:08 PM. Johnuniq (talk) 08:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

This isn't specifically related to this, but it is semi-related and also applies to the template mentioned here. I also don't want to create another section just for this. I've always had problems with anything related to time for as long as I can remember. Is there a way to have my user page and talk page automatically constantly purge the page cache? Because, at least on my user page, I've been having to constantly manually purge the page cache in order to make the time actually show the current time. So, in theory, I would have to do this every single minute. For example, it is currently 1:47 PM here, and my user page is still stuck on 12:31 PM, which is when I temporarily went back to what I was using before creating this section, while my talk page did eventually update at 1:27 PM, but has gotten stuck again and is still saying that. Amaury • 21:47, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

You would need a Javascript user script to update the time periodically. Regenerating the page on the server is a bit of overkill; it would be more efficient for the script to just update the time displayed on your user page. Just curious: is your workflow facilitated by looking at your user page for the current time rather than using another method? isaacl (talk) 22:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
@Isaacl: Are you asking if I use it specifically for the work I do on Misplaced Pages? If so, no. I just have it on there just to have it there. Basically just as an interesting piece of info. Amaury • 22:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
@Amaury: I have created a userscript to automatically purge your userpage and talk page. You can copy the code from User:DreamRimmer/test.js and paste it into your common.js file or create a separate script page and install it. The script will purge these pages every minute while they are loaded in your browser, and you can customize it to include additional pages or adjust the purge interval to suit your needs. – DreamRimmer (talk) 07:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Pages don't auto-purge for a reason, namely that Misplaced Pages is designed to do as much caching as possible. One user doing a purge every minute won't be noticed, but people sometimes ask for a particular page to be purged regularly and they are told that it's not going to happen. Johnuniq (talk) 08:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Noted! – DreamRimmer (talk) 08:13, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
@Amaury: You can add ({{purge|refresh}}) after the time to make a purge link saying (refresh) for all viewers of the page. {{current time}} is rather misleading without a purge link and should add it as an option. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
@DreamRimmer, Johnuniq, and PrimeHunter: Thank you all for the help. You've all been incredibly helpful. :) Amaury • 09:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
We should really have a template gadget for times and countdowns. – SD0001 (talk) 10:27, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
MediaWiki:Gadget-UTCLiveClock ? Snævar (talk) 11:47, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I think most people prefer having their notifications unified as much as possible. Thus I can see a better case for building a notification feature in a Misplaced Pages app than into the web-based interface (as the web interface has no access to the underlying platform notification/timer APIs). isaacl (talk) 17:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Not sure if you got the indentation wrong or if this is actually a response to my comment. What I meant is to have a gadget loaded on use of a template which is controlled by its parameters to show live time for any given time zone (enhancing the wikitext output of {{time}}, {{current time}}, {{current time in time zone}}, etc), to show live countdowns (enhancing the output of {{countdown}}), and so on. Apart from userspace use cases, it could be used on datetime-related articles like (eg. Eastern Time) where the live time seems more appropriate than one lagged by the parser cache and containing a refresh link. – SD0001 (talk) 17:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I was responding to your comment, but a different use case more along the lines of the original post (user-customized timers and countdowns). I'd suggest that the live update capability be togglable, with the default being no extra moving text or client resource usage. Although personally I don't think a live up-to-the-second (or even minute) countdown is needed, I appreciate there is an audience for it. isaacl (talk) 18:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

LFP Template Els broken

From what I see, {{LFP Ligue 1}} and {{LFP Ligue 2}} (and the corresponding wikidata properties) produce broken links, likely happened due to the new website. {{LFP}} still works since it uses archive links, but the ~700 links from the other two are all broken. Nobody (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

From what I see, you're right! But, as you say, it's probably not the templates' fault; apparently the LFP has changed its sites and left out the fun bits about the players. Therefore, there's not currently (AFAICS, on either the English or French versions) anything to which the templates can link.
I don't have a solution for you, except to maybe wait a bit and see if the LFP adds the players sections again. Was the site changed very recently? Maybe they're still working on it, and the players' stats pages will appear soon. Or not. Sorry! — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 18:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Pretty sure the new website came with the sponsor change. It's likely that it won't come back. Nobody (talk) 08:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
WP:URLREQ if the URL changed, WP:TFD if the templates are useless now. Izno (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
The URL is gone, but some can still be found using Internet Archive, probably needs to be discussed at TfD if we want to change the templates or just remove them. Nobody (talk) 08:51, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Log in

I'm trying to log in to https://meta.wikimedia.org/ so I can use the Misplaced Pages Library. The error I see is "Incorrect username or password entered. Please try again." I tried changing my password, no luck. Then I logged out of Misplaced Pages and back in with the same credentials and everything's fine. What's wrong with the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

So it is working now? Likely had something wrong with a session cookie. — xaosflux 18:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Thank you, yes meta-wiki says I'm logged in. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Why are my userpage colors inverted?

There seems to be a problem with my userpage, and all my colors are inverted. I looked for a high contrast setting in Misplaced Pages, but there was none. And I don't have the high contrast setting activated on my computer. Can someone help?

Thanks, Tenebre_Rosso_Sangue, Editing with SSStyle! (talk) 20:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

@Tenebre.Rosso.Sangue995320: You probably enabled the dark mode gadget without realizing. Try checking in Special:Preferences JJPMaster (she/they) 20:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Just checked, it was already off, meaning it cant be that. Tenebre_Rosso_Sangue, Editing with SSStyle! (talk) 20:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Probably phab:T382701. Izno (talk) 20:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Unanswered and not archived comments for a project

Is there any way to get a feed of the above onto a pageWakelamp db (talk) 03:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Appending ?safemdode=1 alters infobox layout

with safemode
Without safemode

I've tested this logged out and the problem persists. Are we testing a new infobox style or something? JayCubby 19:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

It is because infobox styling comes from MediaWiki:Common.css. There is currently a project to convert to infoboxes to use TemplateStyles, but that requires cleaning thousands of pages manually (see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#Description of work). HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 19:42, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
@JayCubby: ?safemode=1 omits reading CSS and JavaScript pages from the wiki, both sitewide like MediaWiki:Common.css and personal like User:JayCubby/common.js. See mw:Safemode. I find it so useful for testing that I made User:PrimeHunter/Safe mode.js to add a safemode link for the current page. A "suicidal" script which also prevents itself from loading when you activate it. I wonder whether some users have enabled "Always enable safe mode" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering without knowing the effect on infoboxes and other things. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:21, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I didn't realize that safemode affected CSS (well I sort of did, but somehow differentiated the mainspace and important CSS from custom CSS, if that makes sense), merely user scripts.
This probably isn't a huge issue, but the current explanation for 'always enable safemode' is Disable on-wiki scripts and stylesheets., which could be changed to Disable on-wiki scripts and stylesheets. May break page layout. JayCubby 20:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Honestly think that's kind of assumed with "turns off CSS"..... Izno (talk) 20:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

code editor character position counter?

Where did it go? Used to be that the code editor displayed certain information in the lower right corner of the editing window among which was the character position from the right margin, character highlight info – number and position of characters selected, etc. Now gone?

The CTRL+, configuration menu for the editor (version 1.32.7) doesn't appear to have a setting for this so that suggests that sommat else has happened? What happened and can it be undone?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

It was lost accidentally, and it will be back next week, see T380034. Matma Rex talk 00:07, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
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