| Revision as of 05:21, 24 January 2004 editAstronautics~enwiki (talk | contribs)8,754 edits reverting everything by banned user Khranus/24.224.204.137← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 18:34, 27 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,804 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:David Icke/Archive 5) (bot |
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However strange Icke's views are, they deserve more credit than they get. They are very far outside of regular, especially larval human reality tunnels. |
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{{Article history| action1 = GAN| action1date = 20:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC)| action1link = Talk:David Icke/GA1| action1result = listed| action1oldid = 248261101 |
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| action2 = GAR| action2date = 21:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)| action2link = Talk:David Icke/Archive 3#GA review| action2result = delisted| action2oldid = 256486178 |
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| action3 = GAN| action3date = 15:12, 28 February, 2010 (UTC)| action3link = Talk:David Icke/GA2| action3result = listed| action3oldid = 346700889 |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|class=GA|vital=yes|listas=Icke, David|1= |
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{{WikiProject Biography|sports-priority=Low|sports-work-group=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Football|importance=Low|England=Yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Paranormal}} |
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{{WikiProject Alternative Views|importance=high}} |
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{{WikiProject Skepticism|importance=High}} |
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He does require a stretch of the imagination every once in a while, but his historical analysis of the Royal Family of England, the Christian religion, etc. is very well supported. Even many of his 'reptilian' claims have large amounts of evidence to support them. |
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{{Misplaced Pages:Featured article tools|1=David Icke}} |
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== Footnote 8 == |
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Did you forget to take your tablets today? ] 00:05, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC) |
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the article linked at footnote 8 does not say that his publisher dropped him or why. ] (]) 00:02, 24 October 2023 (UTC) |
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Hahahaha... Wow, you can make immature jokes and be closed-minded... I'm so impressed... |
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== Reptilian shapeshifters == |
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Just pick up one of his books, and read the sections on history and politics, ignoring it whenever he mentions reptilians (since that's the hardest part of his research to accept--furthest out of our normal reality tunnels). You'll find that he makes a lot of accurate references... In fact, historically, his notions that Jesus probably didn't exist and that the World Trade Centre was done by the CIA are very well backed-up. It's the same thing I do when I read literature from religious scholars. Every time they mention some silly mythical being like 'God' (in the Christian sense) I ignore that bit and continue on, gathering what in the text I find intriguing and plausible... If you're religious and you make fun of Icke, it's almost hilariously hypocritical, considering that the fantastic assumptions made to believe in those myths as reality far transcend the 'weirdness' of Icke's claims... How in the name of God can you believe that demons from a place called 'hell' are behind all the world's evil, and deny the possibility that a more tangible creature like a reptiloid extraterrestrial might have had a bit more of an influence than 'the devil'? |
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reptilian shapeshifters is linked to the wiki article on reptiles and there is no reference there to reptilian shapeshifters. ] (]) 00:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC) |
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Even from a Christian standpoint, if you were to accept the information provided in that enormously 'weird' book, couldn't the 'demons' constantly spoken of be explicable as a race of reptilian beings? ] |
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:{{done}} I broke it into two wikilinks. One to ] and the other to ]. ] (]) 23:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC) |
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== his new book not in the selected works == |
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:Khranus. I assume you are not from the UK. In the UK David Icke is widely believed to be a loony, and the number of people who take him seriously can probably be counted on one hand. ] 08:29, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC) |
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the dream was released this year |
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:In Canada, where I live, the Queen is 'widely assumed to be a loony'... |
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can someone update the "selected works" ] (]) 22:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC) |
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If your observations are correct, that just goes to show how many closed-minded people there are in the UK (and presumably the world over besides the UK, for the most part)... I don't 'believe' anything, personally, but I don't deny anything either. Alternative views shouldn't be treated as 'loony' just because they're outside your reality tunnels... In my opinion, for every ounce of 'loony' David Icke has got, ] had 900 ounces. Just look at what a deranged fuck she was... Then there's the Pope, the Mormon 'Prophet'... Jesus, about 90 or more per cent of this planet is completely 'loony', moreso than David Icke. The average American believes that an enormous, all-encompassing bearded white guy controls the universe, and sends 'angels' to earth to save us from 'demons' from hell... |
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:{{cn}} ] (]) 23:05, 10 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{done}} ] (]) 09:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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In terms of Icke's views, I think that this quote basically sums up all the criticism he's received: |
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==Short description== |
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A Tibetan monk replied to a question about extraterrestrials with this: |
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The Short description generally follows the basic information contained in the lead of the article. He is not much known as a footballer. Icke seems to be best known as a conspiracy theorist. This article starts {{TQ|David Vaughan Icke (...) is an English conspiracy theorist and ...}} so a Short description of {{TQ|English conspiracy theorist (born 1952)}} is reasonable. — ] <sup>]</sup> 11:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC) |
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"Why do you deny the notion of extraterrestrial life? What is it about beings like this that you find so offensive? You believe in demons, spirits, and in Buddha, but you do not believe in something as simple as life? I tell you, this is what makes them so offensive to you--they are so tangible." |
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:Agree. ] (]) 11:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::Also agree, he never hit the big time as a footballer, was somewhat more successful as a BBC sports presenter, and then really hit the big time with his alternative (cough cough) theories.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 11:41, 4 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::yup ] (]) 15:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC) |
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Note as this was started today, at least give it until tomorrow to decide if there is a consensus. ] (]) 14:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC) |
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* No disagreement. Restored to {{TQ|English conspiracy theorist (born 1952)}} — ] <sup>]</sup> 20:12, 7 September 2024 (UTC) |
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* Agree per points mentioned above. He is primarily known as a conspiracy theorist. ] (]) 00:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== Not merely allegations == |
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It's the plausibility, the tangibility of these entites that so offends people these days. The majority of humans have their head in the clouds about 'gods' and 'saviours', etc., and yet illogically deny that something as worldly as a toolmaking reptilian species exists. |
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@] you reverted my edit, and said see . You're gonna have to be a lot more specific than that. |
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There's quite a lot of evidence to back up his claims as well. I'm not saying that they're necessarily 'true', but the probability that what he says is true is far higher than the probability that Jesus existed. And that's saying something, if not about his claims, than about Jesus. |
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] (]) 03:46, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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When someone denies the existence of something despite overwhelming evidence that it is possible, it is called a delusion. Therefore, people who ridicule Icke's ideas are just as deluded, if not more deluded than he is, by definition. |
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:Saying "x is an antisemite" in Wikivoice is a very serious and potentially libellous accusation, and it is always best to err on the side of caution by attributing it. Take it to ] if you care enough. By my reading of what scholars of new religious movements and that ilk have said of Icke (and they are probably the most qualified to understand him), they tend to see his claims regarding the protocols of Zion as part of the smorgasbord of his conspiracy worldview, and that his claims about reptilians are sincere and not merely a code for Jews. ] (]) 03:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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If you're confused by all this probability stuff, I suggest you read some stuff by Robert Anton Wilson: http://www.rawilson.com/main.shtml |
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::Re: lizard people being divorced from antisemitism: first of all, it is a common dog whistle. Secondly, here is a from one of his youtube videos prior to it getting nuked (). You will notice that the lizard people have stars of david and israeli and american flags on them. Please share a link to research that refutes this. |
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::Re: antisemite vs. antisemitic opinions: |
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Particularly this: http://www.rawilson.com/trigger1.shtml |
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::He was banned from entering Australia and the Netherlands for his antisemitism. He's been called an antisemite in the , had , and the Center for Countering Digital Hate produced a that stated, in part: |
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::''"These features form a funnel structure that directs curious viewers from popular channels that regularly present Icke as an expert speaker on coronavirus, through to Icke’s own videos that play into current trends on hate and misinformation, arriving finally at the antisemitism that underpins all of Icke’s work."'' |
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(Icke, by the way, is not very popular in the UK, but is apparently quite popular in ]. The reptilian theory is actually widely discussed in that nation, for whatever reason. The Japanese seem to have a modern knack for open-mindedness. Perhaps its due to the shock they received during WWII, demonstrating to them how dangerous dogma can be.) |
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::If that's not an antisemite, I don't know what is. I hear you about the need to err on the side of caution, but I think it's also important to ask: what kind of caution? Of course we need to be careful not to expose wikipedia to litigation. |
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::BUT we also need to use caution that we don't downplay hate. |
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- ] |
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::Perhaps I will go to WP:BLPN. I'll have to think about it. ] (]) 04:33, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::WP:BLP says {{tq|BLPs should be written responsibly, cautiously, and in a dispassionate tone}} and {{tq|Do not label people with contentious labels, loaded language, or terms that lack precision unless a person is commonly described that way in reliable sources}} I simply don't think your version passes this. I think we can say "a number of academics and journalists have described his claims about elders of Zion and the Rothschilds as antisemitic" but "Icke is an antisemite" is going too far. ] (]) 04:47, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::@] Also removed from ] pending BLPN discussion. |
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::::] (]) 07:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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I deleted that text to replace it later with updated text. The original statement made didn't corroborate with historical evidence... |
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Just researched your claim that Icke's supporters in the UK 'could be counted on one hand', and apparently, its unfounded. |
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He is ridiculed much in the media, but apparently, he regularly sells out theaters in the United States and Britain... In fact, MOST of his talks sell out in Britain weeks before he appears... |
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- ] |
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Comedy is popular! ] 21:29, Nov 12, 2003 (UTC) |
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A chunk of material has been moved from the article to ]: Icke is not the only one to propound theories about reptilians. -- ] 19:04, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC) |
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That skeptic's dictionary article is highly inaccurate. Clearly whoever wrote it knows nothing of secret societies, and especially of David Icke. Their general psuedo-biographical material about him is completely fabricated--and is very far from his actual position on the matter. This complete ignorance, shines when they say that he received his ideas about the illuminati from 'lizard-people'... |
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The Skeptic's Dictionary is nothing but a pathetic attempt to deny anything that those 'sceptical' cowards find too frightening to believe in. I haven't read one article on that site that contained accurate information, nor have I seen any evidence from their ravings that they're anything more than Fundamentalist Materialists. ] |
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For everyone considering 'debate' with Khranus, I refer you to ] and ]. ] 21:21, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC) |
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This is one of the more interesting things I've ever seen come out of the Misplaced Pages. What we have here is a scholarly debate with a nutcase. (Sorry!) How, in a forum where we cannot censor one another or prevent contribution in any way, are we to maintain credibility? I would be afraid to use the site as source material if I was aware that the article I'm reading may have been written by someone who declares themself "open minded" to the possibility that we are secretly ruled by aliens. |
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: Which nutcase? Icke or Khranus? :-) Just so you know, the latter nutter is now banned. Good riddance, too! ] 00:07, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC) |
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The Short description generally follows the basic information contained in the lead of the article. He is not much known as a footballer. Icke seems to be best known as a conspiracy theorist. This article starts David Vaughan Icke (...) is an English conspiracy theorist and ...
so a Short description of English conspiracy theorist (born 1952)
is reasonable. — GhostInTheMachine 11:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
Done I broke it into two wikilinks. One to Reptile and the other to Shapeshifting. Cullen328 (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
