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== Talkback ==
== Revert on Jack Sarfatti article ==


{{tb|Talk:Bulldog edition}}
When ] reverted your edits to ], you reverted back without explaining why. ] expressed genuine concerns with your edits, and I think that some explanation is needed to sort this out. --] 05:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


:I explained on the talk page. Please don't try to "build a case" against me, on this one, when I am enforcing Misplaced Pages policy. If I err slightly, please (1) help me to correct my tiny error and (2) do not thwart my intent, which is to get the article to conform to Misplaced Pages LEGAL and NPOV policy. Note that I am working closely with Jimbo, Anthere, and Fred Bauder on this.


== WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter ==
:The others have ganged up on a newbie who is also a notable person. There is an article about him entitled ]. His username is ]. He was blocked indefinitely for "making legal threats", but '''as I said on the talk page''' (either article, user, or both) I unblocked him in consultation with the blocking admin, after speaking with Jack on the phone.


{{Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron/February 2012 Newsletter notice}}
:He doesn't know our rules. We should explain them to him gently, instead of just blocking him permanently.


== ''Ichthus'': January 2012 ==
:There is a legitimate policy question about how to characterize his "critics". Are they anonymous bloggers or newsgroup posters? Are any of these critics also Wikipedians? What have notable people said about him, like ] or any Nobel-prize winning physicists?


<div style="font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
:Note that I am not taking sides on this. I have not even examined his theories! I only want the article about him to conform to our NPOV policy, which I believe requires us to give proper sources for those who support or oppose his views. ] 13:29, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
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|style="color:gold;"|'''January 2012'''
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'''''In this issue...''''' <br>
<big>'''
*]
*]
*]
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<center><small>''Ichthus'' is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by ]<br>For submissions contact the ] • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list ]</small></center>
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== Talkback ==
::I'm sorry, but you haven't been editing neutrally. You've removed substantiated and relevant material, and abused both rollback and page protection. I respectfully suggest you might want to ask a different mediator to take over this one. --]] 16:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


{{Talkback|LarryJeff}}
::I'm not trying to build a case against anyone here. While enforcing wikipedia policy is needed and I thank you for it, I don't think that your actions have been totally transparent. That is why I asked for an explanation for the specific revert, which I still don't think has been given. --] 01:10, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
== WikiProject Christianity September 2012 newsletter ==


<div style="font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
You're building a case. I just asked you not to (see above). I the thing you say I "removed" was placed on the talk page for repairs. It might be relevant, but it is not substantiated, unless you think Misplaced Pages should accept anonymous criticisms as a source.
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|style="color:gold;"|'''September 2012'''
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'''Membership report'''<br>
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 344 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, ], ], and ]. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the ] or with me or other individual editors to request it.


After checking with fellow admins on IRC, I rapidly unprotected the page (as a glance at the page protect log will show. Did you look, or are you "trying to bulid a case"?)


'''From the Editor'''<br>
It's not an abuse of rollback to undo an erroneous revert - not if you explain the rollback on the talk page, which I have.
''Ichthus'' is one of the ways that the WikiProject Christianity’s ] department helps update our members. We have recently added some new sections to the newsletter. Please let us know if there are changes you would like to see in the format, or if there are any particular things you would like to see included. And if you have anything you would personally like to add, by all means let us know. The talk page of the current issue is probably the best place to post such comments.
With that, I wish you all happy reading!


P.S. Please to add the new ] to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.
You're beginning to remind me of the "tenants from hell" described in this week's episode of my favorite comic strip: .


<small>By ]</small>
Please help me to craft a fair and neutral article. Please do not abuse the system to destroy or subvert the system. ] 16:59, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


==I quit==


'''Church of the month'''<br>
I'm not going to sit around while other Admins try to build a case against me, to get me de-sysopped. Not when Jimbo and Anthere asked us to fix the page mentioned above.
<center>]<br>
by ]</center>
<center>The Chapel of ]</center>


I'm supposed to be on vacation.


'''Contest of the month'''<br>
I dived in and tried to straighten this out, and this is the thanks I get?
We currently have a remarkable lack of ]. Right now, ] contains only 12 books. We certainly could have at least one book on each major grouping within Christianity. One of the challenges for this month, then, is working to put together books on relevant topics. For this month, one contest is for editors to assemble the basic Misplaced Pages books for each of the main topics of the extant related projects. When finished, they should their creation of the books at the ], and at the end of the month the project will award barnstars to those who have made a significant efforts in developing this underdeveloped content.


Also this month, we are going to have have a challenge to create and improve some of our more important missing or low-quality articles. Last month's challenge articles were ] and ]. Both articles are currently candidates for the DYK section of the ]. This month's challenge articles are the Stub-class article ] and the not yet started ], A barnstar will be awarded to any editor who can get these articles up to ] and ultimately selected for the DYK section of the main page.
Forget you! I'm out of here. - Ed




'''Calendar'''<br>
== Don't go ==
Thie coming month (mid-September through mid-October) includes feasts dedicated to the honor of the ], ], ], ], ], ], the ], ], ], and ].


</div>
Don't go, Ed. Please. You're held in high regard by many Wikipedians. ] ] 17:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


<div style="float:right; width:49%;">
:Ed, have your vacation, but make sure you come back. You're liked and respected; well, more than liked. ;-) ] <sup><font color="Purple">]</font></sup> 18:39, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
'''Featured content and GA report'''<br>
Since the last report, ], and ] were promoted to FA. ] was promoted to Featured List, and ], ], ], ] and ] were promoted to GA level. DYKs featured this past month include ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], and ]. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!


'''Wikimedia Foundation report'''<br>
::Ed, you are one of the most respected editors here, and all your contributions and efforts are highly appreciated. You would be a great loss to the project. Now, take your well-deserved break, and come back when you feel refreshed. Don't worry about us while you're on vacation - we won't break anything! Seriously, though, please do rejoin us. Your efforts are valued. ] |<small> ]</font color>| ] </small>| ]<sub>] </sub> 18:47, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
]
As some of you may have seen, the ] has been experiencing some difficulties lately. This particular entity could be of great value to several individuals who are trying to learn English. As some of you who do speak foreign languages know, one of the most easily available, and, in general, useful learning aids for people is a text they know already, which allows them to focus on the specific words of the new language. Various recorded readings and translations of the ] are among the best examples of this. Any efforts to try to enhance this vital means of informing a large segment of our readership is more than welcome. People interested in helping develop it are encouraged to leave a note regarding their specific articles of interest at the ]. It would be wonderful if we could report some significant contributions to this sister site next month. And, of course, if we do have something to report, those involved would receive our greatest thanks.


'''Christian art'''<br>
]


<center>''The Guardian Angel'' by ]. </center>
is an example of the kind of thing I have to put up with here. Well, I've had it. We need a new system. A wiki of unlimited openness is simply not up to the task of organizing the world's knowledge.


'''Spotlight'''<br>
Consider me on break if you want, but I'm really upset. And I'm not coming back for a long time. ] 19:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
]
*You're absolutly right, it's amazing what have to put up with here--] 19:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
] is one of our more important subprojects. It is specifically devoted to developing content relating to the Calvinist tradition, and the primary point for development of content relating to the ], ], ], ], ], and ]. We definitely encourage everyone to do what they can to help this project develop the content relating to this extremely important Christian tradition.
::All that links to is his removal of your insult, a violation of ] that he removed and then you come back and do another.--] 02:18, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
<font color=885555 face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size=4>I remember the day when I went out to play and a bird flew down to my hand, didn't want to leave. When I asked to keep it, I remember my dad said, "Yeah son, let it go away. Hope that it comes back here to you some day. Just let it go away and if it comes back, you know it's here to stay."</font>


<font color=885555 face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size=4>Since then I've gone through changes. Since then I've gone through life. Since then I found me a beautiful woman I thought could be my wife. She said she really loves me but she said she couldn't stay. She said I've got to go my love to find things my own way. So I let her go away, hope that she comes back here to me some day. I let her go away and if she comes back, I know she's here to stay. </font>


'''I believe'''<br>
<font color=885555 face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size=4>There's not always reasons for the things in life, but it's comforting to know within your mind, if you love something enough and you've done all that you can, if there's one thing I have known and learned first hand, sometimes you have to just let it go away. Hope that it comes back here to you some day. Just let it go away, and if it comes back, you know it's here to stay.</font> -- 19:52, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
... that human nature is insufficient for salvation, and the grace of God is required to do so. I believe that God has preordained who will and will not achieve salvation. I believe that Jesus's atonement was sufficient for the purposes for which it was done. I believe that God's grace is of such power that it can overcome any person's resistance. I believe that those whom God has chosen for salvation will, by the undeniable power of God, persevere in God's grace. I am a ].


== Please help (Macedonians) ==


</div>
Hello, Uncle Ed. You might remember me from the Macedonians/Macedonian Slavs naming dispute, about three months ago. As you might know, the naming dispute is still not resolved, and I desperately need your advice. It's better to give a short overview of the dispute and the latest developments
<div style="clear:both; width:100%;">
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'''Help requests'''<br>
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.


<center><small>''Ichthus'' is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by ]<br>For submissions contact the ] • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list ]<br>] (]) <includeonly>~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly></small></center>
Namely, as you might know, or as it can be seen ], the common name for this ethnic group is ''Macedonians'', and ''all'' of the international organisations, ''all'' of the goverments (except Greece, Cyprus, and maybe Romania) refer to this ethnic group as ''Macedonians''. In addition, ''all'' of the encyclopedias (except MSN Encarta) refer to this ethnic group as ''Macedonians''. It is also the most common name for this ethnic group in major media outlets, and the remaining use of the Macedonian Slavs name is in decline. (The BBC officially apologized for using this label - . I believe that, according to the ] policy: ''Articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views''?
</div>
</div></div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0356 -->


== WikiProject Christianity October 2012 newsletter ==
Perhaps, most importantly, according to the new ] guideline, or more precisely ], which has become an official naming convention in the meantime - there is no reason for the Macedonian Slavs label. ''Macedonians'' is the self-identifying term of this ethnic group, an Misplaced Pages shouldn't decide whether the have the right to identify as such. Moreover, most ethnic Macedonians vigorously protest against the use of the Macedonian Slavs label - , which they find offensive.


<div style="font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
The Macedonian Slavs term is also ambigious - there are other Slavic speaking ethnic group in the region, most notably the Bulgarians.
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|style="color:gold;"|'''September 2012'''
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<div style="background-color:#FFF;">
<div style="float:left; width:49%;">
'''Membership report'''<br>
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 347 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, ], ], ], and ]. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the ] or with me or other individual editors to request it.


Several attempts have being made to put an end to this dispute, according to the ] but unfortunately they ended as a failure. The poll was an evident disaster, and involved cheap ethnic voting and sock puppetry on both sides. The RfC, which I posted ] a month ago, and took place ], obviously didn't attract the necesarry number of neutral users. Except those already involved in the dispute, only ] and ] commented. They both agreed that we should use Macedonians (ethnicity) name.


'''From the Editor'''<br>
I've invited the representatives of the Greek POV to go the ] several times, starting up here . The efforts to end this dispute was supported by all participants in the discussion which are of different nationalities (Albanian, Bulgarian, Irish, American, Slovenian, and of course Macedonian), including a neutral admin (] who has elaborated the Mediation issue in greater detail here .
''Ichthus'' is one of the ways that the WikiProject Christianity’s ] department helps update our members. This newsletter is one of the ways we do try to help people keep up with the project. We would always welcome any input for things to be included in it or additional editors to keep it going. Please let us know if there are changes you would like to see in the format, or if there are any particular things you would like to see included. And if you have anything you would personally like to add, by all means let us know. The talk page of the current issue is probably the best place to post such comments.
With that, I wish you all happy reading!


P.S. Please to add the new ] to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.
As you can see in the talk page, '''this request for Mediation was rejected by the all the representatives of the Greek POV'''. After a brief period, ] moved the article to Macedonians (ethnic group), which was redirected back to Macedonian Slavs by ], and then redirected again to Macedonians (nation) by ]. As this is likely to become an another edit war, I would find your advice helpful:


<small>By ]</small>
What should be done in order to put this dispute to rest? The situation is rather specific, as Greeks actually refused to go to Mediation, and don't provide evidence to support the "Macedonian Slavs" label. Should we take this dispute to Arbitration? Should I request it to be protected as it is (])? Or something else? Please could you answer me these questions? --] 22:51, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


::The evidence was produced by myself, ], ], ] and most importantly ], who pointed out that ] is a historical and geographical entity of longstanding existence, and a minority of its inhabitants cannot monopolize the designation "Macedonian" for themselves, especially given their very recent (20th century) emergence as a separate ethnicity. ] astutely pointed out that you are attempting to "impose common usage" of the term Macedonian so as to make it refer to your people ''by default''. The matter was voted on last June and the majority voted to keep the title. You not being satisfied with the vote, have continued to pursue the issue. You asked for mediation, and stated that I refused. This is not true. I said that "I cannot meet your schedule" and that I would not be available to take part in the mediation process until mid-November.
:::In order to avoid the continuation of edit wars, I proposed to you that ''you'' edit the article and then ask to have it locked until I was able to participate in Mediation. You, ], ] and ] reacted with indignation. Then Bomac, with REX's assistance, went ahead and moved the article anyway, thus negating the very need for dispute resolution. And now you come and ask if the article should be locked. How do you spell "hypocrisy", FlavrSavr? Well, hold your horses, because REX and GrandfatherJoe (a possible sockpuppet of REX) have already asked that the article be locked. Now that the article reflects your POV, having it locked it doesn't look so bad anymore, does it? And all of a sudden, the likelihood of an edit war is alarming to you! Two days ago it was not.
::::Furthermore, REX and GrandfatherJoe justify "their" request by saying that the multiple redirects have completely messed up the article and its talk pages. ''Except that it was their own redirecting that caused the mess in the first place''. Just look at the edit history. Well, unfortunately it all looks like a ''plan'' to me.
:::::I find your behavior (WRT this instance of arbitrary and unilateral action) thoroughly dishonest. I intend to participate in Mediation starting in the second half of November, and intend to request an Advocate, one of unimpeachable neutrality and knowledge of the region, in order to assist me. For the time being I cannot and will not submit to such disingenuous and back-handed behavior. ] 00:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


'''Church of the month'''<br>
::::::The plan proceeded like clockwork. Some admin fell into the trap, and just locked the articles in their present, unilaterally changed form. Well done! I am not holding my breath waiting to see what steps you will take to ensure that "freedom" is restored. ] 00:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
<center>]<br>
by ], recently promoted to Featured Image</center>
<center>]</center>


First of all, Chronographos, ] pointed out that we cannot impose common usage to this term, not knowing that the term was ''already'' in common usage. After proving that he was wrong about the "common usage", and not answering my questions in the RfC, I can only assume that he doesn't hold that position, or if he is, he is now willing/able to prove it. I would be glad if he does prove this claim. --] 07:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


'''Contest of the month'''<br>
Second, the claim that in the June poll the majority voted for the "Macedonian Slav" label is a ''blatant lie''. '''The poll was a draw'''. 29:29. As you actually don't see the need to see the outcome of that poll, and claim that it was a majority, by default, please see this ]. --] 07:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
For the upcoming month, the contest will be to develop content related to the ] season, including Advent and other related topics. Please feel free to see and take part in the discussion at ].


One of last month's challenge articles, ], has been substantially developed by ] and ]. Our deepest thanks to both of them!!
Third, your request was unacceptable for several reasons, an I explained in the talk page. I have already stated that, until the naming dispute is solved, I don't intend to get involved in other disputes, and that I will contact an admin these days. I did that, and I don't see any foundation of your accusations for hypocrisy. The mediation request has been made. You refused to accept mediation and these are your words: ''No need to wait one more day then: I have other priorities (including a couple of Wiki-projects of my own) for the next month or so, therefore I, in my turn, do not accept your Mediation proposal.'' Those "priorities" didn't stop you to write a whole page of calumnies against me, huh? --] 07:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
:] is an academic linguist from Zurich, a well-travelled man with a wide variety of interests. Chances are he's travelled to more countries than you have ever heard of. Don't assume what he does or does not know, accept or was persuaded about. Apparently in this disagreement you and he had, ''you'' decided what the outcome was. 'Nuff said. I retract what I said about the poll: the outcome was indeed a tie, and I seem to have recalled it wrongly.
::You state that you "don't intend to get involved in other disputes". Likewise I don't intend to get involved in mediation until mid-November. I don't see why ''you'' get to call the shots and I don't. Unless you want to come and help with my house renovation, that is. It starts Monday. ] 08:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


'''Calendar'''<br>
:::While I agree on your request for Mediation in mid-November, I don't see ''any'' reason why the article should stay as it is. You have rejected mediation ''now'', and therefore there is no reason why I shouldn't take advice what should be done ''now''. We can have mediation, ''then''. But, ''until then'', neither me, nor the others are obliged to wait for your house preparation. As for the offer for help, I might come, if you guarantee that I'd get a Greek Visa ;). Regards. --] 11:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Thie coming month (mid-October through mid-November) includes ] and ] and major commemorations dedicated to the honor of the ], ], ], ], the dedication of the ], the beginning of the ], ], ], and others.


</div>
::::Indeed, my house renovation is no reason for the article to "stall". Neither was your exam schedule last month, but you did not pursue the mediation issue ''then''. Apparently only ''you'' may have other priorities for a given period of time. Others may not. ] 11:40, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


<div style="float:right; width:49%;">
:::::Yeah, but I didn't require the article to stall then, did I? Nevermind. See you in November, good luck with your renovation. --] 12:05, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
'''Featured content and GA report'''<br>
Since the last report, ] by ] was promoted to FA. ] by ] was promoted to Featured List. The images in the ''Church of the Month'' and ''Christian art'' sections of this newsletter were promoted to Featured Picture status. ] by ], ] by ] and '']'' by ], were promoted to GA level. DYKs featured this past month include ], by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], and ] by ]. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!


'''Christian art'''<br>
===Mediator response===
]


<center>Portrait of ] by Sir ]. </center>
Sorry, I was too busy all last week to wrap my head around this one. I gather a lot of this hinges on the true meaning of the English words ''Macedonia'' and ''Macedonians''. A related question is probably:
<center>This image was promoted this past month to FM by the work of ]. Thank you, Spongie! </center>
*Who are the real ] / ]s / ]ns? (note 3 slightly different formats of the links)
'''Spotlight'''<br>
]
] is the group whose purpose is to help develop the content related to the Christmas season, including Advent, New Year's, and related holidays. As many of us know, in several parts of the world, including the United States, the Christmas season is not only the time of one of the greatest holidays of the Christian liturgical year, but it is also the "make or break" time for many retailers, whose profitability for the year often depends on their success in this time of the giving of sometimes significantly expensive gifts. In other parts of the world, the winter solstice period and sometimes specifically Christmas itself means something that might surprise many Christians, like the ], where Christmas is one of the times hotels receive the greatest number of, often unmarried, couples staying there for the night. The solstice season is also significant to several other religions. Many of these days are also legal holidays in several places. In Belarus, for instance, both the Western and Eastern Christmas commemorations are legal holidays. We would certainly welcome the members of this project to donate some of their time and talents in the upcoming months to improving this significant content.


I hope that parties to this dispute (here at Misplaced Pages) will agree to describe this ] fairly. Can we all agree that Misplaced Pages should not take sides on this? That Misplaced Pages should leave the matter unresolved, but only say '''this side''' feels that "Macedonia" refers to X, while '''that side''' says it really should refer to Y? ] 12:19, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


* might not give you what you want, but I think it's a good starting point.


</div>
Your request for my intervention might result in a reformulation of Misplaced Pages policy, but I hope not. I think we can resolve this with a bit of good-natured discussion. ] 13:01, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
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'''Help requests'''<br>
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.


<center><small>''Ichthus'' is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by ]<br>For submissions contact the ] • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list ]<br>] (]) <includeonly>~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly></small></center>
I have started a discussion at ]. ] 13:19, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
</div>
</div></div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0385 -->
== WikiProject Christianity October 2012 newsletter ==


<div style="font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
Thank you (VERY MUCH) for your response, but you're missing the point and the main dispute. The main dispute is not about the name of the region, but the name of the ethnicity, namely the majority of the Republic of Macedonia. I'll try to explain the problem as short as I can.
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|style="color:gold;"|'''November 2012'''
|}
<div style="background-color:#FFF;">
<div style="float:left; width:49%;">
'''Membership report'''<br>
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 349 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, ] and ]. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the ] or with me or other individual editors to request it.


The wider ''region'' of Macedonia, is divided between the ''']''', ] and ]. The Republic of Macedonia does not encompass the whole region of Macedonia.


'''From the Editor'''<br>
There are several ''ethnicities'' living in the region of Macedonia - Greeks, Macedonians, Bulgarians, and Albanians. There are several ethnicities in the ], and the majority of them are the Macedonians (the article about them, for some reason, is to be found at ]). The current ] article is about the ethnicities living in the region of Macedonia, of whom, only the majority of the ], use Macedonians as an ethnic identifier.
''Ichthus'' is one of the ways that the WikiProject Christianity’s ] department helps update our members. This newsletter is one of the ways we do try to help people keep up with the project. We would always welcome any input for things to be included in it or additional editors to keep it going. Please let us know if there are changes you would like to see in the format, or if there are any particular things you would like to see included. And if you have anything you would personally like to add, by all means let us know. The talk page of the current issue is probably the best place to post such comments.
With that, I wish you all happy reading!


P.S. Please to add the new ] to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.
'''The dispute is not about the region of Macedonia, but for the ethnic majority in the ].''' Namely, the Greeks oppose that this ethnic group should be referred to as Macedonians, as they believe that this would be monopolization of the "Macedonians" identifier. They feel that they are the true Macedonians (the descendants of the ]). Their proposal is to label the majority ethnicity of the Republic of Macedonia as "Macedonian Slavs".


<small>By ]</small>
The majority ethnicity of the Republic of Macedonia, however, refuses that term as derogatory. Their stance is that because they are the only ones that are identifying themselves as Macedonians in an ethnic sence, there is no harm in referring to them as Macedonians or ethnic Macedonians. (The vast majority of foreign sources, and encyclopedias refers to them as "Macedonians", as well)


I propose that the current Macedonians article remains as it is (referring to all the inhabitants of the wider region of Macedonia), while we should move the current ] article to Macedonians (ethnic group). What is your opininon on this proposal? --] 16:05, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


'''Church of the month'''<br>
Thanks. Meanwhile, you might also want to read ], as well. When ] applied the table method, (see the ], the result was a clear win for the '''Macedonians (people)''' option. Also, a question: Is this some sort of Mediation? At the moment, that doesn't make much sense, as the Greek POV refused it? However, I welcome the involvement of neutrals in the dispute, in any forms or shapes. --] 17:31, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
<center>]<br>
] by ]<br>
Recently promoted to Featured Image. Great work!</center>


:Yes, it's a sort of Mediation. The other "party" doesn't have to say anything for a mediation to be successful. The only condition for success is that there is no more conflict!


'''Contest of the month'''<br>
:Just kidding: actually, we do need to come to an agreement of some kind. Give it time. And take a look at ] for some preliminary work I've done to prepare for this mediation. ] 18:17, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
For the upcoming month, the contest will continue with the ] theme, including Advent and other related topics. Please feel free to see and take part in discussion at the ].


::Thanks again. We really need more neutrals. If you ask me, the question is about application of Misplaced Pages policies, namely the ] policy. (Did you see it?) But that's me. Also, it would be a good thing if ] section is applied at ], after some cleansing of vandalism. And I assure you I gave this dispute time - I mean, 4 months have passed, and we still don't have a solution :-). So, I'm not pushing you, but, I would really appreciate if we could solve this dispute in a matter of days or weeks, not months. Regards. --] 20:51, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


'''Calendar'''<br>
:Nods tolerantly. Do you know how long it took to settle the Misplaced Pages naming dispute over ]/]? If the "ethnic Macedonians" thing gets settled before Christman, consider yourself lucky. ] 21:13, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
This coming month (mid-November through mid-December) includes the ] season. Other major feasts are those of ], ], ], ], ], the ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], and others.


</div>
::Yikes! And that dispute isn't even a bit as complicated as the Macedonians/Macedonian Slavs dispute is. Oh, well... --] 21:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


<div style="float:right; width:49%;">
== Leaving? ==
'''Featured content and GA report'''<br>
Since the last report, ] by, among others, ], ], and ] and ] by ] were promoted to FA. ] by ] was promoted to Featured List. The two images in the ''Church of the Month'' and ''Christian art'' sections of this newsletter were promoted to Featured Picture status, as were these two images of Michelangelo's ] ] and of ]'s ] ]. ] by ] and others, and ] by ] were promoted to GA level. DYKs featured this past month include ], by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ], and ] collectively, ] by ], ], and ] collectively, ] by ], ] by ], ], ], and ] collectively, ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ], ] by ] and ], ] by ], ] by ], and ], by ]. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!


'''Christian art'''<br>
Why would you leave? I haven't followed all the goings on, but with the amount of time you have in, maybe a break and then come back. Let me know if I can be of any help.--] 02:14, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
]


<center>Three scenes of the legend of the Miraculous Sacrament, in which communion wafers were reported to bleed after being stabbed, in the ], Brussels by ].</center>
==So sorry to see you upset!==
<center>This image was promoted this past month to FM by the work of ]. Thank you, Alvesgaspar! </center>
Hi Ed, it's sad to see you go. I hope you find peace at the end of the rainbow... please come back when you feel ready. ]] ] 10:43, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
]
PS -- I moved your "I quit" message up to the top so the Macedonians will see that you are not available to help with mediation right now! ]] ] 10:43, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


'''Spotlight'''<br>
:Thanks, Mama. And thanks to all who wrote in to express your support in this time of difficulty for me. ] 16:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
]
] is the group whose specific purpose is to help identify and develop those articles which are of greatest importance to an overall understanding of the broad subject of Christianity, based on what is included in the ]. These articles include some of specific churches and individuals, history, philosophical and theological matters, and more. We have had some recent discussion regarding which articles should be included in this list, and it probably makes sense to revisit the selections, and try to figure out how best to work to make them high quality articles. Discussion is beginning at ] regarding these matters, and all input is welcome.


==Not really quitting==


</div>
As some of you guessed or realized, I'm not really quitting. But I was rather upset. Things did not go as I had planned or desired. But I take heart from the many messages of support sent my way, and have found new inspiration.
<div style="clear:both; width:100%;">
-----
'''Help requests'''<br>
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.


<center><small>''Ichthus'' is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by ]<br>For submissions contact the ] • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list ]<br>] (]) <includeonly>~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly></small></center>
But this doesn't mean my job is any easier. Rather, I see the challenges as forcing me to go up to a higher level of devotion, tempered by a new wisdom:
</div>
</div></div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0402


# RECIPIENTS (CATEGORY) -->
:Satan says to God, "I became an evil scoundrel as a result of the fall, but you and good people can't use methods that are similar to mine, can you? I may like to fight, but you're not supposed to enjoy fighting. Even when you take a blow, you have to endure, don't you?" Thus, God's philosophy is one of non-resistance.


== WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (June 2013) ==
These words from Rev. ] provide the answer to my prayers. They are not a comfortable answer. They do not make me feel contented or assured. Yet they carry the ring of truth: they feel right to me. ] 16:56, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


<div style="font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
{| style="text-align:center; border:10px solid black; background-color:black; width:100%;"
|-
|]
|- padding:15em;padding-top:5em;"
|style="font-size: 350%; color:gold; "|<br>'''<big>I</big>CHTHUS''' <br><br>
|- padding:15em;padding-top:5em;"
|style="color:gold;"|'''June 2013'''
|}
<div style="background-color:#FFF;">
<div style="float:left; width:49%;">


'''From the Editor'''<br>
::I can't picture Satan saying "scoundrel" unless he was played by Tim Curry. --] 17:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
]Since its formation in 2006, WikiProject Christianity has come a long way. A significant number of new articles have appeared on a wide range of topics, and the quality of some key articles has seen dramatic improvement. Yet, by the very nature of the open, ] development environment in which we operate, as the number of pages in the project has increased at times our attention has been naturally diluted. We should of course strive for quality everywhere, but we should remember that this newsletter is called ].


Starting this month we will start a "Focus on" series, where we will try to "bring Jesus back" and focus on him. For five consecutive issues we will focus on one aspect of the study of Jesus. The goal of this series is to inform our members of what the project contains and highlight those articles which have reached quality and stability.
:LOL, thanks, Z. You seem to have identified ] with ]. Sounds like you're well on your way to finding the . ] 17:43, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
==talk:Homophobia==
Ed, I see you have helped out on the ] page before and I want to enlist your help again. It seems that some editors there refuse out of principle to include a statement that "some opponents of homosexual acts believe the term 'homophobia' is a controversial epithet." I think I have provided a pretty good case for citing some form of controversy around the use of the term, but others disagree. Please help with a third party NPOV view because we have both reverted twice now. ] 19:16, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


From this month until November we will focus on the historical Jesus, a topic which has been the subject of much discussion on article talk pages, as well as the general media. This is an important topic, and we have a good set of well referenced articles on that now. Then, starting in December we will focus on Christ, and the spiritual and theological elements that the title entails. Following that the review of the life and ministry of Jesus in the New Testament, his miracles, and parables will take place. And each month the "Bookshelf" will mention a book that fits the theme of the month.
:It hinges on the meaning of the word ''controversial''. Try saying instead that:
:*Some opponents of homosexual acts object to the use of terms like 'homophobia' or 'homophobic' on the grounds that ...
:You might also point out that
:*Some opponents of homosexuality bristle at being label 'homophobic'. They argue that the label is incorrect, since it implies that hate or fear homosexual persons and that it is irrational for them to do so. They argue further that their objections to homosexuality are not motivated by hatred or fear, but stem from a rational appreciation of ...
:Bear in mind when you discuss this tangled, fractious and highly contentious issue that '''different parties use the word homophobia in different ways'''. ] 19:35, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


We hope you will enjoy this journey as we present a new aspect of Jesus each month. And given that as the number of project pages increases, the ratio of those watching the pages declines, we hope that more of you will watch some of these central pages that help define this project.
==How to describe the fringe==


You wrote on my talk page:
:You wrote elsewhere:


'''Church of the month'''<br>
::You are correct that we should not dismiss someone simply because that person is not accepted by mainstream science. What we should do is report the views of those who support and those who oppose any such person, and attempt to indicate both the numbers and the credentials of those who support and oppose, as well as attrributing specific comments to specific individuals whenever possible, and not express as absolute truth any side of any such controversy
]
The current building of ] in ], England which was completed in 1888, is at least the third version of the church, which dates back to at least the early 13th century.


:This is an excellent set of general rules. I agree wholeheartedly. You are to be commended for being able to express these principles, and to advocate our adherence to them considering how much trouble has, er, arisen in our dealings with ].


'''Good articles and DYKs'''<br>
:Rest assured, he will remain blocked unless and until he withdraws his legal threats '''and''' gives at least the glimmer of a hope that he'll stop being so abusive to Wikipedians. Note that I do not say "other Wikipedians", because if he can't abide by our civility rules, he cannot '''become''' a Wikipedian. ] 20:05, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
The article ] received the ] mark last month, as did ]. A number of churches were featured on the main page in the ] section in May, namely ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ] and], as well as the hymn ].
</div>


<div style="float:right; width:49%;">
::Thanks. I am very glad to hear it. I was afraid that he had been left unblocked either becauae some bend over backwards to not 'oppress" those who express fringe views, or because of his legal threats. i was not about to block him myself, as an involved editor.
'''Focus on...'''<br>
]
<BIG>T</BIG>HE</br>
<BIG>H</BIG>ISTORICAL <BIG>J</BIG>ESUS
{{clear|left}}
Did Jesus exist? Did he walk the streets of Jerusalem? The ''']''' article answers these questions with a firm affirmative. Historicity does not discuss if Jesus walked on water, but if he walked at all. The issue was the subject of scholarly debate before the end of last century, but the academic debate is almost over now. As the article discusses, virtually all academic opposition to the existence of Jesus has evaporated away now and scholars see it as a concluded issue. The discussion is now just among mostly self-published non-academics.


In 2011 ] tweeted that if anyone finds a professor of history who denies that Jesus lived, of his Bible (Matthew 1 he said). Dickson's Bible is still safe.
::Do you think it would be a good ideat to draft ] and include a version of the above? or is this redundant with ] and other relevant policies. ] ] 20:15, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


The article discusses the ancient sources that relate to Jesus and how they fit together to establish that he existed. The evidence for Jesus is not just based on the Christian gospels, but by inter-relating them with non-Christian sources, and the fact that they all "fit together". Moreover, the existence of Jesus is not supported just by Christian scholars and in recent years the detailed knowledge of Jewish scholars and their discoveries (e.g. ]' discovery of the ]) has proven highly beneficial. We encourage you to read and follow the article, for the existence of Jesus is central to the existence of Christianity.
Good idea. I've already posted your text there, crediting you as the author. ] 20:21, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


'''From the bookshelf'''<br>
==]==
]''Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence'' by Robert Van Voorst, 2000 {{ISBN|0-8028-4368-9}}
Saw your comment on the talk page of this article. thought you may care to support my nomination for ''oil painting'' as a ''Collaboration of the Week'' by voting at: ]. --] 05:43, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
{{clear|left}}
Just a few years after its publication, ]'s book has become the standard comprehensive text for the discussion of ancient sources that relate to Jesus and his historicity. This detailed yet really readable book has received wide ranging endorsements - ] and ] separately referring to it as the most comprehensive treatment of the subject.


'''Did you know...'''
== Zen-master Arbitration case closed ==
]
*... that ] wrote the initials "S. D. G.", for ], at the beginning and end of all his church compositions to give God credit for the work, and that ] at times did the same?


</div>
The ] Arbitration case, ], which you commented on, has been closed, with the following remedies:


<div style="clear:both; width:100%;">
* Zen-master is placed on ] for one year from the date of closing this case. Should any sysop feel that it is necessary that Zen-master be banned from an article where they are engaged in edit warring, removal of sourced material, POV reorganizations of the article, or any other activity which the user considers disruptive, they shall place a template <nowiki>{{Zen-master banned}}</nowiki> at the top of the talk page of the article, and notify them on their talk page. The template shall include the ending date of the ban (one year from this decision) and a link to ]. The template may be removed by any editor, including Zen-master, at the end of the ban. If Zen-master edits an article they are banned from, they may be briefly blocked from editing Misplaced Pages, up to a week for repeat offenses.
'''Calendar'''<br>
* Zen-master is banned for one week for making personal attacks.
The coming month includes days dedicated to the honor of ], ], the ], and ].


-----
Yours,
'''Help requests'''<br>
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.


<center>'']'' is published by ].</br><small>For submissions contact the ] • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the list]<br>
] ] 16:13, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
]<br>] (])<includeonly>~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly><includeonly>~~</includeonly></small></center>
</div></div></div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0537 -->


== NYC Wiki-Picnic: Saturday June 22 ==
:Thanks for letting me know this. Also, I have proposed that per-article blocking be put into effect by the developers. When they do so, we can be even '''less''' restrictive on remedies like this. ] 16:37, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


{| style="background:#cfc; border:1px solid #090; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
==IRC==
|-
| rowspan = 3 | ]
| style="font-size:150%;" align=center|] at Prospect Park
| rowspan = 3 | ]
|-
| You are invited to the ''']''' in Brooklyn's green and lovely ], on this Saturday June 22! We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the ] :) -- ] (])
|}


</div>
Cool_Cat_: I dotn know
<!-- EdwardsBot 0550 -->
Cool_Cat_: Ed_Poor edit your userpage
Cool_Cat_: Ed_Poor now we are all skeptical
RobChurch: Don't worry about it.


== Misplaced Pages Takes Brooklyn! Saturday September 7 ==
==Great to have you back!==


{| style="background-color: #E0FFFF; border: 1px solid #0000FF;"
I never thought you failed on Price-Anderson, but rather that you were making good progress until other events went out of control. I felt forced to ask for a new mediator when Ben started editing again and your meter was bright red. I'm really glad to have you contributing! ] 18:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Please join ''']''' on September 7, 2013! <BR>Everyone gather at the '''Brooklyn Public Library''' to further Misplaced Pages's coverage of—<BR>'''photos and articles''' related to '''Brooklyn''', its '''neighborhoods''' and the '''local landmarks'''.<BR>--] (])
|}
<!-- EdwardsBot 0610 -->


== Wikimedia NYC Meetup- "Queens Open History Edit-a-Thon" at Queens Library! Friday December 6 ==
:Thanks for your support, and I think the change of Mediator will be beneficial. I can't do everything myself, and trying to do so isn't nearly as helpful as encouraging ]. ] 20:03, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


{| style="background-color: #E0FFFF; border: 1px solid #0000FF;"
==Anne Frank==
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
Ed, is there anyway you can take a look at ]? ] has violated the ] with his latest revert (see bottom of ], he's reverted four times in 24 hours) and I'm all out of reverts. Thanks in advance. --] | ] 01:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Please join ''']''' on December 6, 2013! <BR>Everyone gather at '''Queens Library''' to further Misplaced Pages's '''local outreach'''<BR>for '''borough''' articles on '''the history and the communities'''.<BR>''Drop-ins welcome 10am-7pm!''--] (]) <nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>
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== New England Misplaced Pages Day @ MIT: Saturday Jan 18 ==
:''Slaps both of you around with a wet trout.'' ;-)


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
:I learned to say that on ] and am very proud of my new vocabulary. But seriously, you shouldn't have gone toe to toe over this. 1RR is enough. Then you discuss it on the talk page.
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|]: January 18 at MIT Building 5
|-
| style="padding-left: .6em;" |
]


Dear Fellow Wikimedian,
:I'll see you both tomorrow, after you've cooled off, okay? ] 02:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::Of course I'll still thank you, Ed. I knew exactly how you would respond, and you didn't disappoint. :-). Now, leave the fish alone! (''except'' for ]) BTW, I forgot to actually say ''thank you'' for your help. Mahalo. --] | ] 10:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


You have been invited to the ] ''']''' at Building Five on the ] campus on Saturday, January 18th, from 3-5 PM. Afterwards, we will be holding an informal dinner at a local restaurant. If you are curious to join us, please do so, as we are always looking for people to come and give their opinion! Finally, be sure to ''']''' if you're interested.
::Is that ]an? Check out my article on a movie '''set''' in Hawaii: ]. ] 14:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I hope to see you there! ] (])
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== Saturday: NYC Art And Feminism Misplaced Pages Editathon ==


{| style="background-color: #E0FFFF; border: 1px solid #0000FF;"
== ] ==
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Please join ''']''' on Saturday February 1, 2014,<br>an event aimed at collaboratively expanding Misplaced Pages articles covering '''Art and Feminism''', and the '''biographies of women artists'''!


There are also regional events that day in ], ], and the ].
Ed, with all due respect, Six Sigma may very well be just a buzzword, but that's no reason to summarily eliminate the vast majority of a page that describes the development and the theory behind the process/methodology/attitude/whatever you choose to call it. I will grant you that there isn't much on actual methodology, but that's like eliminating the biographical section of the ] article because there's not enough analysis on his writing. Instead of just removing content, it would serve us better to improve the mediocore methodology sections that the article already has. I'm planning to condense the stuff you removed and put it back in the article, but let me know if I'm misunderstanding the reason behind your edits. --]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 02:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
<br>--] (])
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== Upcoming Saturday events - March 1: Harlem History Editathon and March 8: NYU Law Editathon ==
:No, you got the reason correct. But perhaps I was too hasty. I felt I was sweeping up some trash.


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
:If there is a theory there, I'd love to read about it. I'd even like to know how they developed it. Hey, don't get me wrong: my dad made a living applying it. I just never saw any more to it that a 5 or 6 step checklist.
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Upcoming Saturday events - March 1: ] and March 8: ]
|-
| style="padding-left: .6em;" |
]


You are invited to join upcoming Misplaced Pages "Editathons", where both experienced and new Misplaced Pages editors will collaboratively improve articles on a selected theme, on the following two Saturdays in March:
:On the other hand, you could reduce ]'s idea to "Plan, do, study, act" and call it PDSA.


*Saturday March 1: '''] (])''', focusing on Harlem history, landmarks and biographies
:Please go ahead and condense; I probably went too far to fast. But if I got you to get your act in gear, maybe it was good? :-) ] 02:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*Saturday March 8: '''] (])''', focusing on innovation law and intellectual property (with social dinner afterward)


I hope to see you there! ] (])
::Yeah, maybe it was good :). Someone came along a couple months ago (right as I was on my way out for a wikibreak) and added a rather large section of information that was already mostly summarized right above it. I've removed most of that. Basically, the theory that's covered is the reasoning behind the six in six sigma; where it came from, etc. As for the theory behind the methodology, that's something that we still don't have. I need to check out a book from the library or something to really start to nail that stuff down. But that's yet another project to work on when I should be paying attention to school :). In any case, I think the second and fourth paragraphs of the "Why 6" section speak on your concerns, but let me know if there's still a problem. --]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 02:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
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== You're invited: Women's History Edit-a-thons in Massachusetts this March ==
== Jack Sarfatti ==


{| style="background:#dee; border:1px solid #00c; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
On ] you wrote:
|-
"''If you'll tell me - right here on this page - that you're planning to withdraw your threats of legal action unconditionally - then I will gladly unblock your Misplaced Pages user account. I believe the other Admins will support this.''
! colspan="2" style="font-size: 150%;" | Women's History Edit-a-thons in Massachusetts this March - ''You are invited!'' <br />

"''You can then assure us of your good faith by deleting all the adverse comments you have made about other contributors, as your first act upon returning.''"

I would object unless Jack Sarfatti promises to abide by ] as well as by ] or at least not to make such outragous personal attcks in future as he has made in the past.

I also do '''not''' wish his attacks against me removed from any of the relevcant talk pages -- i want them to remain to document what was said and how people responded. if Sarfatti now regrets or disavows those comments, let him strike them through, and/or post an apology for them, but if they are removed I will be inclined to revert.

I add that the "archive" of his talk page is currently a red-link, which is against good practice, particualrly in a case like this. Are you inb mid-move with the archiving? ] ] 03:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:The archive's on the talk page of the redlink. --]] 03:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't you think your last edit summary was a little hypocritical? ] 03:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Er, Ed, I'm not sure if what you told User:JackSarfatti (as quoted by DES above) is true. I suspect that other admins may have trouble supporting a warm welcome for that user, given his behaviour so far. DES has shown remarkable restraint, given the quantity and nature of the abuse User:JackSarfatti has heaped on him.

Given , Jack&ndash;at a minimum&ndash;owes an apology to the community for his shameful behaviour. I wouldn't even consider unblocking him without some sort of enforceable agreement to abide by WP:NPA and WP:NLT. It would help if he demonstrated an ability to abide WP:CIV, too. Otherwise, I can't see any benefit to Misplaced Pages that might accrue from his unblocking. ](]) 04:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

:I agree with TenOfAllTrades. And, DES, I started the archive but lost network connectivity. I hope someone has completed it.

:Jack phoned me this morning (8:00 A.M. California time) and promised everything. I'll check his user talk page this afternoon, because I'm busy right now; there's no hurry on this.

:I suggest a cautious and tentative welcome, and I agree with the idea of using strikout instead of deletion. If this thing ever blows over, we can archive the talk pages in question - but I see that as a matter of months, not days. ] 16:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

::I completed the archive process, and the link is now blue. I see that this user has indicated that he approves of "removing" the "legal action statements". I do not see a clear promise to abide by ] in future. I also do not see any mention of civility and personal attacks, and I would like to. ] ] 16:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I have left a note for DES regarding Jack's that he will abide by WP:NPA and WP:NLA and strike out the personal attacks he has made. (I will set aside for now his statement that he has not made any personal attacks for 'several days'.)

As far as I know, DES has suffered the most unpleasantness from ]; ''if'' DES approves of the agreement (or any amendments and additions as may be necessary) then JackSarfatti could be unblocked...with the understanding that he will be on a ''very'' short leash. Where possible, I'll try to keep tabs on ], too&mdash;I don't want to contribute to the article, but I don't mind stepping in if other editors think they can kick Jack while he's down. ](]) 00:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

:I just read the note on my talk page, and the diff linked to in that note. My response:
:1) As long as Jack Sarfatti abides by the promises he made in that diff, i have no objections to his editing. I have a suspicion that he may fall afoul of ] and/or ], but I am willing to assume good faith and wait until that happens, and I hope it doesn't.
:2) I hope that other people will keep an eye on his edits, at least to the ] article, and in any case if he returns to his former patterns, that he be brought up short.
:3) I have no intent to "kick Jack while he is down". I think that nagative views of him are sufficiently notable that reports of them must be included in the article, but any such views ought to be properly attributed and sourced, and any positive veiws that can be similarly sources should also be reported. Limited personal prefernces that do not affect the encyclopedic value of the article I think we should be soemwhat accomodating on.
:4) I would be willing to help show him the ropes on wikipedia, but given our prior interaction, it would probably be best if soemone else did this. I think it would be a very good idea if soemone undertook to give hime a but more of a tutorial on how wikipedia works.
:5) While I would be gratified if he chose to apologize for past comments, I don't want that made a condition of unblocking -- a coerced apology is of no value at all.
:In short, if you feel comfortable in unblockling him, I will not object. In view of our past interaction, if I see a problem with his future editiong I would engage another uninvolved admin rather than block personally. I hope that there will be no reasion to think about doing either. ] ] 14:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

::Very gracious of you, sir. I'll remove the block, and let's see what happens. ] 14:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

== Your message ==

Thanks for that. Is there an overall point you're leading up to? As before, I'm not going to agree to broadly generalized terms that then get followed on by some "and so therefore we can conclude..." I don't intend for this comment to be somehow belittling of your effort, as the spirit behind it is greatly appreciated, it's just not the way I prefer to try to come to a meeting of the minds. I would rather you just be direct with me. &middot; ]<sup>]</sup> 19:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

:Er, right. I think I've done this to you once or twice before. Makes me seem kind of manipulative, doesn't it?

:''Wham! He catches the poor little mouse in his sharp claws!'' (bad ed, bad ed!)

:Okay, what I'm leading up to is a discussion of the U.S. Congress's agencies (like ]) as "objective sources". I'm going to give my opinion that even a highly respected non-partisan agency of the world's most benevolent and well-liked nation (]), nevertheless should not be automatically accorded "authoritative source" status. Rather, we should say that nearly everyone respects agency X as a reliable, unbiased source of information.

:I'm wary of endorsing '''any''' source. Who's next as a source? Bodies created by the UN? ] 19:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::Laugh! Well, I understand your position. I'm highly skeptical in general. But I can tell you that in my line of business, and I mean reporting at the national level, these entities are generally considered fine for use as source material on items such as these. Historical facts. I don't see why Misplaced Pages should be treated any differently, particularly when there's an in-line link provided right there for anybody to see. There are definitely times when I take information from, say, the GAO, and I do identify its source -- but that generally only happens when this reporting entity is reaching some conclusion, taking a position. I.e., our research showed that Bush is a bastard. I'd never just write that kind of thing, regardless of the source, as a plain fact -- I'd say the GAO found that Bush is a bastard. But this isn't necessary when using an entity like GAO as a basic summation of the facts behind some historical something. Either it's true or it's not, and I have no reason to think the GAO would not properly summarize the facts behind some historical event. It's fine to then say "but groups X Y and Z say that this is REALLY what was behind it." I'm not trying to quash a diversity of critical opinions. &middot; ]<sup>]</sup> 19:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

:How about situations where a Congressional agency and some obviously partisan lobbying group are at odds? Shall we say (''Wham!'') that CBO said the measure would cost $10 billion, and Citizens for Fair Energy Taxes said it would cost $25 billion? (poor little mousie & bad ed!) ] 19:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::Sure, but that speaks to my point. CBO does its own original cost-projecting. If it crunched numbers and came up with that, then I'd source it to them. Often CBO and Congress itself have different numbers. I'm not sure where you're going with this, but it doesn't really support your point over mine. &middot; ]<sup>]</sup> 19:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

==Getting us nowhere==
regarding your , you tell me to request mediation when the problem occurred while ''you'' were ''mediator''. I don't need any more of that. Since it doesn't appear that the mediation committee is eager to answer my questions, I'll leave you with a few questions, instead.

Show me an NPA violation in Neuroscientist's that deserved a from you.

Show me an NPA violation in my directory that qualifies as a "clear and obvious personal attack" worthy of a second by you.

Explain to me how you want from saying "Slim moved too far, too fast" to attacking it as "sneaky way of building a case", "gaming the system in a hypocritical bullying way", and "spurious" .

Explain to me how you block me for NPA and then days later tell me "I happen to think you're an asshole and a shit head, and that you're fucking everything up, you stupd, time-wasting bully!!! . And explain to me how I would not have been blocked for posting such an educational lesson to someone such as, oh, say, SlimVirgin.

Tell me exactly how you, as mediator of the Terri Schiavo article, managed to ignore any grievances regarding SlimVirgin's edit containing factual and NPOV problems, her multiple denials of a single factual error, her multiple accusations of policy violations on our part, and yet as mediator you warned Neuroscientist for criticizing SlimVirgin, blocked me a second time for working on an RfC against SlimVirgin, attacked the RfC against SlimVirgin, adn then attacked me personally. How, exactly does that count as successful mediation? or even mediocre mediation? Duckecho, Neuroscientist, and A ghost were all good editors and left immediatly after this whole fiasco. Do you think it may have had something to do with the fact that mediation failed them miserably? Or am I to believe that their complaints against SlimVirgin were completely baseless? ] 22:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

:I don't recall counting this as a successful mediation. By definition, if one of the sides remains unsatisfied, then it is not successful. It has stalled because (1) you don't want me to continue and (2) no one has asked for me to be replaced.

:If we are nowhere, would you like to get somewhere? What would that place look like to you? What do you want me to do to get you there? ] 23:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

::apparently, discussing this with you is a public problem. check your email. ] 02:28, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::No reply yet. Do you not want to use email to discuss this? ] 18:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::#How about doing this as a Mediation by email? If you agree, please make an RFM at ]. ] 18:48, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::::mediation by email? Uhm, ok. ]. ] 21:05, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

== Any suggestions? I'll look here. ==

Dear Ed,

I got drawn into a physics article, a topic on which I am at least well enough read to be able to tell when something is clear. The article originally had a request/warning on it indicating that it was too obscure to be helpful. I have managed to get it clear enough that the warning was removed. However, there are places that are so unclear that I can only guess what the Electrical Engineer who wrote the article was trying to say. Actually I suspect that he may be flat out wrong, but since he hasn't made a clear statement I can't be sure.

I e-mailed him a couple weeks ago and he seemed eager to have help getting his writing into comprehensible form. But later when I have asked him questions on the Discussion page he ignores them. The only responsive reply he has made so far was to object to one thing that I had changed, and that was an easy fix, just a word choice thing. I don't want him to feel that I am attacking him personally or something, but I also have been stung so many times (especially in high school) by thinking I was dumb when in fact the writing was incomprehensible that I am not happy leaving something around that looks so problematical for others to get stranded on.

I am moving in the direction of hacking (in the software sense) the most problematical things and seeing whether he will respond when some of his core points are given major changes, but I'm not sure that this is the best approach. Any ideas?] 02:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:It took me many years to get over that. I finally ran into some really smart and VERY considerate engineers who convinced me that if it's not clear to the educated layman, it's probably - nonsense!

:It might be true, but if the writer can't make it clear to ME, that's not MY fault!!

:Conversely, as volunteer writers for this project, I suggest that each of us take the responsibility for making our special and important knowledge clear to others. I have enjoyed our relationship in the few short years we have worked together, Patrick. I don't know anything about horse psychology other than what I have been told by people who (1) cared about horses enough to learn how they think, feel and behave and (2) cared enought about the reader to EXPLAIN all this in simple terms.

:It's people like you, Patrick, who give me hope for the success of this project. People who care about the topic and the audience. People who are willing to make the effort to share their knowledge with those who want to know.

:Thank you! ] 03:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks for the kind words. I am trying to take the sting out of anything I have to say before I say it. ] 06:02, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

A third contributor has put up a request for deletion. It may take something like that to get the main writer to find citations -- if he can. I have found some things that appear to be pertinent, but nothing where he said to look. And he is so unclear that I can't be sure that what I've found is really what he is talking about. Meanwhile, I've created my own double-slit apparatus just to have something concrete to work with. ] 06:12, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

== Western Sahara ==

Thank you for your intervention in the WS page. You requested to meet you in talk. Did you mean in the WS's or in your talk page? Cheers. ] 19:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:Either place is fine. It's usually quieter here, because I can archive and/or erase comments as I please. It might be too "hot" at ], and I don't want to get any sand in my mouth or eyes. So maybe we should talk here? ] 20:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I mainly summerized my arguments in the ] section in WS talk page. I see that Koavf refuses any discussion and don't respect your requests. ] 23:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:I get a real hostile feeling from that talk page. We've been talking "at" each other in the Edit summaries. This often happens at the beginning of an encounter like this.

:Have you been talking with ] at all yet? ] 23:41, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Every one uses the talk page of WS except of Koavf, and the encounter began longtime before. The conduct of Koavf after 10 October 2005 seems to me very stronge because he continued his activity in WP except in the WS talk page. He refuses the discussion but continues to revert the WS page. Anthere said that she doesn't have time to mediate in this affair .
] 23:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:I'll discuss this with the mediation committee get back to you. ] 23:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I see that Koavf discussed finally. He said that he was in the UN basement for one day to explain his lack of discussion. I didn't respond to his personal attacks. I'm aware that you don't have enough time for all those disputes. I just wanted to tell you that I proposed either a WP survey or to accept third party proposals made in that talk page by the Minister of War and Nlu. I'm waiting now for Koavf's and Arre's answer. I really need your advice to resolve this dispute, what do you think. Thank you very much and good luck. :-) ] 19:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

==Motivation and Quality==

I have been studying ways of getting more and better quality results, in software development, manufacturing, schools (student achivement) and writing encyclopedia articles. My research is not complete, but you can see some of it in:
*] - studying people affects their performance (very long article, donated this week by a UK professor)
*] - expectations matter: believeng in people affects their performance

== sometimes called ==
Actually I think that sometimes they also self-identify as M/S - I've left a note on the talk page. Take care. ] <small>]</small> 14:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

:Yes, good point! The frequency of self-identification is important. See you on the talk page. ] 14:29, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I, also, kindly request to check what Greek users had said in the past and avoid guessing (I could expand on that, but it would be better that you'll see it on your own). With my regards, ] <small>]</small> 14:38, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

:Yes, sorry. Guessing is bad. I'm still catching up on my reading about this problem. ] 14:40, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

== Korean for "Hawaii" ==

The uses "하와이 주" for its title, but "하와이주" (no space as in title) throughout the article. Any idea which would be better to use? &brvbar; ] 02:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

==A little guidence is needed at==
] ] 08:18, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

:I hope you like what I did. It's tricky, writing without bias, because I am a partisan myself. But it helps in matters like this to be open about one's opinions. So here goes.

:I believe the US should not have withdrawn from Vietnam, although I am critical of several policies. When I served in the US army (1982-1984 an 1986-1989) I heard a lot of stories from combat veterans: what they did and what they saw. There was plenty of ethical ambiguity ther, to put it mildly.

:My personal feeling is that the US had good intentions, but poor strategy and highly ineffective tactics. I still don't think the army has "learned the lessons of the Vietnam War", and that's one reason I dropped out after my second enlistment.

:"Anti-war" rhetoric nearly always takes the side of the Communists. It dismisses all criticism of Communist tyranny, omits any mention of Communist atrocities. Do you know how many ] died trying to escape after the Communists took over all of Vietnam? I suggest reading ]'s book, '']'' (he wrote it in French, Vietnam being a former French colony). ] 14:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

== matia again ==
, and I'll probably should take it to my ArbCom case, since I am the only Greek editor who still tries to discuss and I am confronted by a certain group of users. ] <small>]</small> 14:53, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

:You'd better do a Request for Comment first. And if that fails, try the Mediation Committee.

:But let's back up a bit. I love ancient Greece, if for no other reason than I'm fascinated by the mythology and stories of heroes: Athena, Zeus, Achilles, Odysseus, and all that. And I get along pretty well with Greek people in New York City.

:What kind of confrontation are you getting? What are they not letting you say? ] 15:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

When I wrote I was talking about User:Macedonian adding (sneaky v.?) "], try" to '''your''' comment.

Ed,I do believe that you are neutral, but please try to avoid if you can. If you, and the rest neutral admins read the Macedonia related talk pages thoroughly, you can understand what is happening here. I don't like it when I read, you people in Europe are strange, or something like that. As for Greek assimilation, I think that the WP article has a certain pov that one could dismiss even with comparing it to the equilavent article at the jewish encyclopedia (I've read both but don't remember the links right now).

I'm already involved with an open ArbCom case ], and I would try to parse ] if this situation weren't so frustrating. It's times like these that I feel I'm the only greek editor who is so stuborn and haven't, yet, quit WP.

When a greek reads, for example, wikipedia documenting the name negotiations, he sees that Greeks were afraid that the golden larnax with the ] would be stolen. Greek POV: the Vergina Sun was discovered (it was unknown before) 1978. In 1992 RoM used it for the country's flag. Greece asked that country (first of all) to use a different name. They stopped using that flag (I repeat ] was discovered in 1978) and changed their constitution. What did they add and what did they change? That they don't have territorial pretensions against Greeks. They 've just stated what would be obvious for other countries in Europe and America. ] <small>]</small> 17:26, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

:wow, this is starting to get complicated. let me rest up for now and take a fresh look at it all on Monday. Efharisto! ] 00:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Do you agree with the adding of "User:Kalogeropoulos" etc (see my previous link to your comments by User:Macedonian?

I took the liberty to mark some of the latest PA against me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29&diff=26346940&oldid=26344510

=== ? ===
], ]. Merge and redirect to the older, perhaps? ] <small>]</small> 15:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

:Yes, definitely. I was about to put a {{tl|merge}} on that. ] 17:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
::I'd suggest (since you are the only contributor on ]), to merge it and then leave a note about it (or mark a section with an appropriate template) on ] (pointing out something similar to your 1st edit summary, and having in mind NPOV). The other mention I've seen on WP, was by a user (who may have left WP), and is now removed (I haven't figured out who removed it but you may check .) ] <small>]</small> 09:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

=== and a request ===
I believe each neutral should read every related talk page but they must start somewhere. I think ], ] and ] are 3 good pages. If you know any other pages that are easy (without major refactoring) to read for neutrals please leave me a message (I want to have this list of "suggested reading" somewhere). Thanks. ] <small>]</small> 09:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

== ] copyvio ==
<div style="float:right">
{| style=" margin-left: 1em; width: 100px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #000; -moz-border-radius: 15px; padding: 0.3em;"
|-align="center"
|<b>Order of the<Br>Upholders<br>of the Wiki
|-align="center"
|]
|- |-
| <div style="background: #fff;margin-right: 10px;">]</div>
|<small>This Order is awarded to you for your exceptional and distinguished contributions on wikipedia. --] 21:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)</small>
| style="text-align: center;" | '''New England Wikimedians''' is excited to announce a series of Misplaced Pages edit-a-thons that will be taking place at colleges and universities throughout Massachusetts as part of from March 1 - March 31. We encourage you to join in an edit-a-thon near you, or to participate remotely if you are unable to attend in person (for the full list of articles, click ]). Events are currently planned for the cities/towns of '''Boston,''' '''Northampton,''' '''South Hadley,''' and '''Cambridge.''' Further information on dates and locations can be found on . <small><br/>Questions? Contact ] (])</small>
|} |}
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== You're invited! ==


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
Hi Ed, this page had a copyvio recently resolved (after a year of edit warring over, among other things, some copied text).
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|]: April 19th at Clover Food Lab in Kendall Square
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Dear Fellow Wikimedian,
The current page has had essentially the same copyvio added again.


'''''' would like to invite you to the '''April 2014 meeting''', which will be a small-scale meetup of all interested Wikimedians from the New England area. We will socialize, review regional events from the beginning of the year, look ahead to regional events of 2014, and discuss other things of interest to the group. Be sure to ''']''' if you're interested.
I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't edit the page without resolving the current copyvio first. It's hard enough when anonymous editors re-insert copyvios for thirteen straight months, over and over again. I'd rather not have to fight with a long time wikipedian who knows better.


Also, if you haven't done so already, please consider signing up for and connect with us on and .
See the article's edit history and ]. There are other charges of copyvios after this section that I haven't looked at and I don't think will affect the resolution. --] 14:58, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
We hope to see you there!


] (]) and ] (])
:Sorry, but I don't understand any of that. I mean, I know what a copyvio is (and that it's bad); and I know it's rought when anonymous editors keep re-inserted stupid stuff; and I know that ]s don't get us anywher. That's not the part I don't understand.
|}
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== Edit-a-thon invite ==
:Could you take some time, here in oasis of Uncle Ed's living room, to tell me briefly what the "copy violations" issue is all about? Specifically, are people violating (1) academic standards which prohibit ], (2) U.S. laws about distributing copyrighted written material, or (3) am I missing the point entirely because it's something else?


{{divbox|radius=5|ivory|You're invited to the ''']'''|
:I've been with this project nearly 4 years, and I '''think''' I understand what's required, what's optional, and what's forbidden. Help me to help you, by giving me a bit more clarity. ] 15:06, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
]


On May 3rd, the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, Massachusetts will be hosting a ] edit-a-thon from 9:00-5:00 pm. You are more than welcome to attend, as there will be free food and drink, and an outing afterwards. If you are interested, please ], as we would love to see you there!
::To make a long story short - last sept ('04) an anon started inserting coptied text from www.bigmagic.com (the text was probably published elsewhere previously). Fast forward over a year of editwars and the copyvio was eventually morphed into a derivative work (the copyvio was never delt with by reverting to the pre copyvio version and a feeble attemp was made to partially re-write it). The page was eventually listed on ], where it languished for a long time because nobody would touch it, and more edit wars ensued over the copyvio tag staying in place during the listing. In the course of resolving the copyvio there were discussions on the talk page and at wp:cp. I asked for additional input at WP:AN. The copyvio was eventually resolved by reverting to the pre-copyvio version a couple of weeks ago, and in the process trashing over 400 edits and a year of work.


<small>If you have any questions, please leave a message at ]'s ]. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from ].</small>
::The same copy-vio has been reinserted into the article again and needs to be reverted. I'm planning on doing this if no one else does it first, but am going slowly due to the contentious nature of the page.
}}
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== Adrianne Wadewitz Memorial edit-a-thons ==


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
::Looking at the talk page will show endless bickering, arguing and obfuscation. Whereas the actual problem is very simple; some copied and derived writing. I'm just focusing in the talk page section noted above, there is a lot of other idiotic crap floating around on the talk page at the moment. If you want more detail you'll need to go back and dig up discussions on the archived talk page, wp:cp, wp:an, etc. Should only take a few days :)
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Adrianne Wadewitz edit-a-thons in Southern New England
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]


As you may have already heard, the Misplaced Pages community lost an invaluable member of the community last month. Adrianne Wadewitz was a feminist scholar of 18th-Century British literature, and a prolific editor of the site. As part of a ], New England Wikimedians, in conjunction with local institutions of higher learning, have created three edit-a-thons that will be occurring in May and June. The events are as follows:
::I have no interest in the page except resolving the copyvio, I've never edited it otherwise. I spent a lot of time resolving the last copyvio and it's heartbreaking to not be able to keep an anon from re-inserting copyvios over and over and over again. --] 16:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


*], in the Digital Scholarship Commons on the second floor
I don't see the copyvio, but I did see the bickering. I replaced your scary copy-vio notice with a freshly-written, perfectly legal version of the article. I am know the primary author, having supplied 75% of the text of it.
*], in the Digital Scholarship Lab
*], where we will also be hosting a "how to conduct an edit-a-thon" session beforehand


We hope that you will be able to join us, whether you are an experienced editor or are using Misplaced Pages for the first time.
The old "work" still exists, but might have to be re-inserted, one piece at a time, if these pieces are not themselves copyvios.


<small>If you have any questions, please leave a message at ]'s ]. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from ].</small>
I would suggest that if any verbatim quotations are inserted, they be placed in quotation marks and be clearly tagged with a web link. ] 16:26, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
|}
:::Hello Ed and Duk. May I step into your abode briefly? I'd like to make a few comments and observations, but I promise to keep it simple and concise. 1) I'm the "anon" that has been working with Duk recently to resolve alleged copyvios in two related articles. 2) The paragraphs Ed Poor has rewritten aren't the same paragraphs Duk, DTC and I are concerned with in regard to alleged Copyvio. You are messing with the wrong stuff, Ed ;) 3) Duk is in error when he describes the present questionable text as "the same copy-vio that has been reinserted." The text that was at issue a few weeks ago was removed, and was never reinserted during the rewrite. Check the records. The "anon" has not reinserted anything over and over again. The present text under review, however, appears to be also derived from the same source materials. Duk and I apparently disagree as to whether this actually constitutes a copyvio. 4) I believe that Duk is sincerely trying to act in the best interest of Misplaced Pages, and is not politically or otherwise motivated in his actions regarding these articles. I don't share the opinions of certain ... ahem ... passionate recent contributors to the Talk page. ] 18:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
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:::'''locked only while investigating the "copyvio" accusation'''
:::I shall await the results of your investigation. ] 19:59, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


== New England Wikimedians summer events! ==
You can stop waiting. I don't have the authority to hold everything up. I must investigate as a peer. ] 20:07, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
:Hey, do you guys want some coffee or anything? I might even have some donuts or chips back here somewhere . . .
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Upcoming events hosted by New England Wikimedians!
|-
| style="padding-left: .6em;" |


After many months of doubt, nature has finally warmed up and summer is almost here! The New England Wikimedians user group have planned some upcoming events. This includes some unique and interesting events to those who are interested:
===New copyright fight started by TDC===


*], with complete travel reimbursements available for those who participate
TDC has started a new revert war with me.
*], where we will also be hosting a "how to conduct an edit-a-thon" session beforehand
*], which will feature at least one guest speaker, and possibly many more


Although we also aren't hosting this year's Wikimania, we would like to let you know that Wikimania this year will be occurring in London in August:
Despite what you said here at the ] site: :
*


<small>If you have any questions, please leave a message at ]'s ]. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from ].</small>
::Alrihgt, here is my last plea. Do not remove content just because it appears to be mostly comment. Rather, use your brain, read it thouroughly and '''edit''' it. There's a reason why it's called '''edit this page'''. Just because one sentence in a paragraph is copied, don't delete the whole thing. ] clearly states "If some of the content of a page really is an infringement, then the infringing content should be removed". The only case where you should remove ALL content is if the entire thing is a clear and cut copyright violation. Also, if you take an idea and rewrite it (i.e. put some creative effort into it) then it is no longer a CP. The next time you observe a CP, '''do not just delete it right away'''. Read it and see if there's a better way to summarise it and then fix it. Deleting it is a last resort. I'm pretty sure the policy on this is very clear. Remember: don't just go around deleting stuff. That's counter-productive to what Misplaced Pages is trying to accomplish in the long run (i.e. store as much encyclopedic information as possible). ''']'''<span style="background-color:#C1FF5F">]|]</span> 21:27, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
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== New England Wikimedians summer events! ==
I am trying to change the content as we speak, and he continues to put up the copyright notice.
See the history:


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
::: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hughes-Ryan_Act&action=history
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!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Upcoming events hosted by New England Wikimedians!
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After many months of doubt, nature has finally warmed up and summer is almost here! The New England Wikimedians user group have planned some upcoming events. This includes some unique and interesting events to those who are interested:
As he mentions on his talk page he is a ''wikistalkers'':


*], with complete travel reimbursements available for those who participate
''Beware the wikistalkers. Wiki members who investigate certain users contributions and continually revert them.''
*], where we will also be hosting a "how to conduct an edit-a-thon" session beforehand
*], which will feature at least one guest speaker, and possibly many more


Although we also aren't hosting this year's Wikimania, we would like to let you know that Wikimania this year will be occurring in London in August:
He targeted me just because I brought to everybody's attention his aggressive tactics, history of abuse, and frequent bannings in the past.
*


<small>If you have any questions, please leave a message at ]'s ]. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from ].</small>
Please keep in mind TDC's history of being banned from posting and his tactics, all discussed at length on the 3RR site that his friend Duk posted:
|}
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== Saturday June 21: Wiki Loves Pride ==


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
''I'm thinking of moving this section of comments to ]. ] 13:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)''
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Upcoming Saturday event - June 21: ]
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]


You are invited to join us at ] for "Wiki Loves Pride", hosted by New York Public Library, Metropolitan New York Library Council, Wikimedia LGBT and Wikimedia New York City, where both experienced and new Misplaced Pages editors will collaboratively improve articles on this theme:
== Thanks ==


*Saturday June 21: '''] (])''', focusing on LGBT history and culture.
Thanks for the note and the help dealing with ]. According to the talk page there I'm a power hungry jingoistic bully who is conspiring with my buddy TDC to further my evil cause and silence the brave souls trying to educate people with the truth :)
::''11am–4pm at Jefferson Market Library.''


We hope to see you there! ] (])
I'd like to believe that the people slinging insults there don't understand;
|}
*why we revert pages to the pre-copyvio version
<small>(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by removing your name from ].)</small>
*the difference between derivative work and presenting the same facts with one's own words
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*wikipedia's requirement that fair use be attributed
*etc...


== ]! ==
But maybe they do, who knows.


<div style="padding:3em; font-family:'Helvetica Neue',sans-serif; font-size:110%; line-height:1.75;">
Anyway, re-starting the article is a good idea. --] 01:49, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
You are invited to participate in ''']'''!


* ''What?'' ''']''', a campaign to document and photograph '''] culture and history''', including pride events
:I think I understand the 3 bullet points above. And thanks for your support on the re-start. I won't be touching it again till Monday. I'm tired. ] 01:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
* ''When?'' '''June 2015'''
* ''How can you help?''
*: 1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work ''']'''
*: 2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Misplaced Pages articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see ])
*: 3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (''']''', ''']''', ''']''', ].)


Or, view or update the current list of ''']'''. This campaign is supported by the ''']''', an officially recognized affiliate of the ]. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow ''''''. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a ]. One does ''not'' need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Misplaced Pages, plain and simple, and all are welcome!
::What about the newest attack of TDC?] 02:05, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


If you have any questions, please ].
:::Looks like it's going to Mediation. If so, I obviously will '''not''' be the Mediator. I wonder who will be appointed? (I'm hoping Anthere will come out of retirement for this one.) ] 17:55, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


== From ] ==


Thanks, and happy editing!
Thanks ]. Please see comments on my talk page. Also, please use that talk page for any further communication. Take care, ] 02:14, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


] and ]
== Afd nominations ==
</div>


== Saturday April 30: ] ==
I know you know better, so I won't insult you with the boilerplate I've been using when new users do this, but could you please at least put your reasons for deletion in an afd subpage after tagging the article? People are getting confused when all they have to go on is "I found this article with an afd tag on it". See, for example, ]. &mdash;] ] 02:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
:Can I echo that remark? I was going to close the AfD on ] as a speedy keep, even though I agree that the article stinks, except for the first paragraph which seems to contain enough to make a decent stub. However, I decided to contact you first; perhaps you'd like to explain what happened? -- ] (]) 13:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Saturday April 30, 1-6pm: ]
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]
On '''Saturday April 30, 2016''', in conjunction with a global campaign, the ] will host its fourth Misplaced Pages edit-a-thon — or, <big>'''#guggathon'''</big> — to enhance Misplaced Pages's coverage of modern and contemporary artists from the ] region, and to ].


The Guggenheim aims to further the goals of the ], and build on the model of campaigns like the ], ], and ].
::Thank you both. Perhaps turning it into a stub would be better than deleting it. Is there a template for indicating the last major version? I'd like to stubify it, but keep a prominent link to the mid-October "long and mostly useless" version for mining purposes. ] 13:12, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


New and experienced editors are welcome. The event will include a training session for participants who are new to Misplaced Pages and Misplaced Pages specialists will be on hand to provide basic instruction and editing support.
:No such template exists as far as I know, so I made something up myself. By the way, I glanced over ] and ] and I can understand that you want all this to be annihilated from this planet, or at least from Misplaced Pages. -- ] (]) 20:55, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


Can’t join us in New York? Visit ] to coordinate international and online events as well.
::No, I'm just frustrated by the low quality of these articles '''about''' quality. ] 20:58, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


*Saturday. April 30 ''']''' (''Participants have to bring their own laptops and power cords).
==Thanks for your work on ]==
:: '''Time:''' ''Presentation: 1:00 pm - 2:30 pm, Edit-a-thon: 2:30pm - 6:00pm''
:: '''Location:''' ''], 1071 Fifth Avenue (88th Street), New York City, New York 10128''
::: ''Guests should enter using the 88th Street entrance via the ramp at 88th Street and Fifth Avenue''


Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --] (]) <nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>
In case I forgot to say this: Thank you for your work on mediating the ]
|}
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== ]: Voting now open! ==
== Misplaced Pages Bounty Board ==


{{Ivmbox|Hello, Ed Poor. Voting in the ''']''' is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
Ed,


The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
I've been thinking for a while about starting a ], where people put up monetary bounties for articles to become featured, but where the money all goes to the Wikimedia Foundation if the conditions are met. I have a draft at ].


If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review ] and submit your choices on ''']'''.
It seems to me that the positives would be that it would encourage donations and encourage the creation of featured articles, and it would fill a gap - that people tend to look for a psychological "reward" when they've worked hard for Misplaced Pages. But my questions are: 1, Do you think there are any legal problems with this? 2, Do you think this goes against the Wiki philosophy? And 3, Do you see any other problems? (I'm asking several long-term and knowlegeable Wikipedian about this.)
|Scale of justice 2.svg|imagesize=40px}}
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== November 15: ] @ NYU ITP ==
Thanks for your input, &ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 17:58, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
:A personal thank you from a fellow contributor would do just as well. ] 18:07, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Wednesday November 15, 7pm: ] @ NYU ITP
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]


You are invited to join the ] community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening ] (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at NYU ITP ] (4th floor) at 721 Broadway in Manhattan.
== ] ==


We will include a look at the organization and planning for our chapter, and expanding volunteer roles for both regular Misplaced Pages editors and new participants.
I'm not sure what the point of this is. Is it some sort of variant on the cleanup tags, inviting others to come and "fix" what you see as "crappy prose"? Or something else that I'm too obtuse to recognize? 'cause I'm not exactly sure what is so "crappy" about the prose in ]. I'm sure it could be improved, but I don't see anything particularly "crappy" about the prose there. A little boring perhaps, but after all it is a LIST by golly. I'll grant I may be wee bit over-sensitive about it, since I contributed a lot to that article. Cheers, ]<font color=blue>'''&ne;'''</font>] (writing from work).


We will also follow up on plans for recent and upcoming ]s, museum and library projects, education initiatives, and other outreach activities.
:Ya gotta read the mailing list. ] 21:03, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


We welcome the participation of our friends from the ] movement and from all educational and cultural institutions interested in developing free knowledge projects.
::Oh, I didn't realize it was now necessary to read the mailing list to understand things on Misplaced Pages. I always thought that was just an optional adjunct. So for somone who doesn't read the mailing list anymore, what is this about? ]&ne;] 01:58, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


After the main meeting, pizza/chicken/vegetables and refreshments and video games in the gallery!
:Should not be housekeeping categories such as this one be placed on talk pages? ] 00:31, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


*Wednesday November 15 '''] (] or )'''.
==check your email==
::''7:00pm - 9:00 pm at NYU ITP ] (4th floor), 721 Broadway''
] 19:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
::''(note that we are '''not''' at Babycastles this month)''


We especially encourage folks to add your <big>]</big> to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --] (]) <nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>
==mentioned your name on yesterday, and today==


<big>'''P.S. You are also invited to ] on Sunday November 19!'''</big>
Out of courtesy, wanted to tell you that I mentioned your name twice:


|}
''First'':
<small>(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from ].)</small>
::"Your friends, Duk, 172, SEWilco, and Uncle Ed, who shadow you from site to site agressively reverting text, hardly are partial enough to decide this...Lets see what Sasquatch, the assigned moderator decides"
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== March 21: ] ==
Found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:TDC#Winter_Soldier_Edits


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
''Second time'':
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Wednesday March 21, 7pm: ]
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]


You are invited to join the ] community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening ] (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at gallery by 14th Street / ] in Manhattan.
:Sasquatch wrote:


We will include a look at the organization and planning for our chapter, and expanding volunteer roles for both regular Misplaced Pages editors and new participants.
::I'd probably be a shitty moderator for this situation as I'm already involved.


We will also follow up on plans for recent and upcoming ]s, museum and library projects, education initiatives, and other outreach activities.
:I responded:


We welcome the participation of our friends from the ] movement and from all educational and cultural institutions interested in developing free knowledge projects.
::"How so? Do you mean in that you are editing the article now too? Like Ed poor? (Can I mention his name here without alerting him?)... I am busy talking to Ed poor now on the talk page...."


After the main meeting, pizza/chicken/vegetables and refreshments and video games in the gallery!


*Wednesday March 21 '''] (] or )'''.
Found here:
::''7:00pm - 9:00 pm at gallery, 145 West 14th Street''
::''(note the new address, a couple of doors down from the former Babycastles location)''


We especially encourage folks to add your <big>]</big> to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --] (])
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Sasquatch#So_now_what.3F


<big>'''P.S. You are also invited to ] continuing this month!'''</big>
''Third time (older)'':
|}
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== CANCELLED: ] ==
You are also mentioned prominently on the Requests_for_mediation:


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation
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!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|CANCELLED: ]
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<big>Due to the winter storm warning, the WikiWednesday Salon & Skillshare scheduled for March 21st has been cancelled. Please consider attending one of the many edit-a-thons scheduled for this week. We look forward to editing with you soon! </big>
I figure you know this already.


--] (])
Damn this is a lot of work, being courteous to people and mentioning when you mention them--it is easier not to say anyones name.


|}
:You're darn right it's a lot of work. I used to think telling the truth was enough. I found out the '''hard way''' that courtesy is at least half of it. Thanks for the alerts! ] 23:56, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
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== ] ==


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
== 'Sup Eduardo ==
|-
I saw your comment on the thing page requesting IRC. Ive been avoiding IRC like ''the Black Flux'' for a while, and IAC been limiting my online time. But email is fine - what's up? -]|] 03:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|Wednesday April 25th, 7pm: ]
|-
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]


You are invited to join the ] community for our monthly WikiWednesday evening ] (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at gallery. We welcome the participation of our friends from the ] movement and from all educational and cultural institutions interested in developing free knowledge projects.
:Well in case you didn't notice Raul has put your name up for RFA confirmation. I wanted to know how you felt about that and (depending on that) make a comment or two that I think you'd probably like to hear. ] 13:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


Is there a project you'd like to share? A question you'd like answered? A Wiki* skill you'd like to learn? Let us know by adding it ]! After the main meeting, pizza and video games in the gallery.
== NYC meetup ==


There was a meetup last December: ]. There was also a pre-meetup meetup in November; information on that and the planning of the December event are here: ]. *Wednesday April 25th '''] (])'''.
::''7:00pm - 9:00 pm at gallery, 145 West 14th Street''
::''(note the new address, a couple of doors down from the former Babycastles location)''


We especially encourage folks to add your <big>]</big> to our agenda, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --] (])
For a while, someone had a meetup.com group for NYC Wikipedians. I don't know whether any face-to-face gatherings actually occurred through that group. It was discontinued when meetup.com started charging, and nobody valued the group enough to pay anything to preserve it.


|}
If someone else does the work of organizing something, I'd be interested in attending (even if there are *gasp, shudder* "Moonies" there). I have both of the NYC meetup pages above watchlisted, hoping that anyone who set something up would mention it there. Although I think a meetup is a great idea, I'm afraid that I'm not williing to lift a finger to make it happen, at least not for the next several weeks. ] 22:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
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== Sept 25: ] ==
:Gosh, you make us sound like roaches. What makes you gasp and shudder like that? Where'd you learn to refer to us like - oh, wait, that was an exact quote of me on one of the politics pages.... ;-) Carlton Fisk or Sheldon Rampton or Sherwood Forest?


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
:Yeah, by the time I found out about the December meeting (where Anthere and Angela both were there!) I had already committed to something else. Boo! Boo! '']'')
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%; padding: .4em;"|September 25, 7pm: ]
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You are invited to join the ] community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening ] (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at ] in Midtown Manhattan. Is there a project you'd like to share? A question you'd like answered? A Wiki* skill you'd like to learn? Let us know by adding it to the agenda.
:This idea of everything having to be "free" can be taken to far. TANSTAAFL, you know. Well, at least someone cared enough to get Boston for WikiMania. ] 23:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


*Wednesday September 25 '''] (])'''.
== Conditional apology granted ==
::''7:00pm - 9:00 pm at ] (8th floor) at 599 11th Avenue, Manhattan''
::''(note this month we will be meeting in Midtown Manhattan, not at Babycastles)''


We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --] <nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>
Per your Admin-based instructions at ], I have placed a conditional apology to JML there - I am however, asking that you be more specific with your contention, so I can be more specific with my "tak it back". ] <sup><b> ] </sup></b> 05:21, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
|-

|}
=== Scrupulous avoidance of problem verbiage ===
<small>(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from ].)</small>
Please review of mine and tell me if you have any problems with it. Thank you. ] <sup><b> ] </sup></b> 07:06, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
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:It's polite enough, but I disagree with too much of it to approve of labeling each point as a "fact". How about just using a star (*) for each bullet point? ] 14:50, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

James is an attorney. I presented that argument to him in the classic IRAC model:
*ISSUE
*RULE
*Apply the rule to the FACTS
*CONCLUSION(s)
When evaulating evidence a "]" is a piece of information, which, when presented, is presumed to be true unless overcome with superior evidence.

"In law, a fact is a statement which is found to be true by a tryer of fact, sometimes a jury, but often the court (the judge or judges) after hearing evidence."

] <sup><b> ] </sup></b> 15:18, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== Unification Church on ] ==

I assume from the article histories that you mostly abstain from major involvements in the articles, but nevertheless let me articulate this call for help. ] is a mess. Serious utter mess. Apologetics and apostats reverting each other, sometimes "cult-speciallists" inserting juicy stories. Our current "pro"-reverter prefers to cut'n'paste directly from the official German website of the church. Our most active "contra"-reverter tells sort-of his personal story. No neutral and knowledgeable volunteer in sight.

If you can think of anybody able to edit in German and willing to try a NPOV-treatment, please encourage him to give the German Misplaced Pages a visit.

] 15:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:I left a note there in English. Maybe ] or ] could help. ] 15:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== Macedonia mediation ==

Hey Ed. WP:RFM lists you as the mediator for the Macedonia dispute. As such, I was wondering if you could take a look at ] and see if you want to protect it. It seems an edit war has broken out there. It'd be great if you could try to talk to those guys. Thanks. ]·] 22:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:Locked, reverted to 14 Oct. Read them the riot act. I'll let 'em stew over the weekend. ] 01:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
::Okay, thanks. But it looks like you forgot to do the actual protection. :) . ]·] 04:41, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== No Original Research ==

Please got to ] and read in context there. Your comments there about this issue would be appreciated. ] <sup><b> ] </sup></b> 01:54, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== Denar ==

Hi Ed, someone keeps moving the article ] to ] or something else. Macedonian denar is the name used worldwide by everyone, its the currency's official name. Also, he is not discussing it on the talk page. Could you please lock the page, because this edit war is not ending. Thank you. ] 12:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== ]? ==

Hi Ed. Does ] serve any purpose? If not, it seems it should be deleted. Cheers! ] ] 15:58, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== Macedonians (ethnic group) ==

Please check my newest post here ]. This is what I could find only on one page. I am sure there are many others. But, doesn't this proove that the Macedonian ethnicity was already formed (or at least started to getting formed) much, much before Tito got on power in 1945th? Cheers... ]<sup>(])</sup>] 00:05, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:Now you're getting somewhere. I'd like you to continue your research into the history of Macedonian ethnicity in two ways. (1) The "orginal" (Greek) ethnic/national group of ancient Makedonians (who spelled their words with Greek letters like Π). (2) The modern ethnic/national group residing mainly in FYROM (many of whom use Cyrillic letters). ] 15:54, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

== RfC against Benjamin Gatti ==

Hi, Uncle Ed,

I don't want to add to your stress, but since Ben is spreading it around already you probably should know that Woohookitty and Katefan0 are drafting an RfC against Ben. It isn't finished yet, yet Ben has already "responded" and filed two RfCs of his own. The draft is at - I'm not sure if we should do anything until it is written and dated. ] 04:10, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:Well, if they are using the preposition '''''against''''' then this is really the same as a RFArb - which is improper. If they have objections to his conduct at Misplaced Pages, they should be asking the community for comments '''''about''''' his conduct. (And, no, I'm not being pedantic about this. There's a world of difference between the two words.) 15:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks Ed, for your support of fair process. If someone has a beef, and they are fair, I'll be at the debate. BIO, ]

==Block Warning==

Rex, you're wasting everybody's time with all this "rules-lawyering". I think I should supsend your editing priviliges for a few days. Would that be okay with you? Take a little time off and try to remember what you came here for in the first place?

We are looking for editors who can help us make good articles. You're not helping with the John Kerry articles. Either submit a workable plan for how you intend to collaborate with the rest of us, or I'm going to start taking steps. ] 16:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:Ed, are you joshing? On what grounds are you going to block me? Because you think you should? Please list the transgressions you contend I have commited that give you grounds to block me.

:Have you been reading ]? How can you say there is no plan? Virtually every suggestion I make there is attacked by Kizzle, JameMLane and Gamaliel. Regarding "We are looking for editors..." who is the "we" you refer to? Are you asserting that you have a side agreement with those three?

:Ed, this is the 2nd time you have threatened me without valid grounds. I expect that if you follow through on your unfounded threats, I feel I may be forced to take you to ArbComm. Is that what you want?

:As to this statement of yours: "You're not helping with the John Kerry articles"; this is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but I venture to say that I have made more viable edits at ] than you. Why don't you show me even ONE viable edit that YOU'VE made to ] recently?

:Also, please show me where your accusation of "rules-lawyering" is in any wiki guideline, etc., as-being prohibited - along with an official (not your personal view) statement as to ''what'' "rules-lawyering" is, ok?

:Ed, I frankly feel that you are bullying me and wrongly so.

:Lastly, I find this statement of yours "you're wasting everybody's time" to be so utterly false, one-sided and cruel, that I question your impartiality. I suggest you need to recuse yourself from any admin duties addressing me.

:You've really hurt my feelings here - I think you are out of line.

:] <sup><b> ] </sup></b> 23:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

::The above is a typical example of rules-lawyering, and it even contains a threat, an accusation and an insult.

::It's also a waste of time because it contains not one word about how you plan to collaborate with other Wikipedians on writing informative and unbiased articles.

::You see, you're proving my point. But since I'm a fair guy, I had to give you one more chance. Next stop: RFC. ] 02:22, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I intended no insult, threat or accusation, nor do I feel my comments are those things. And since it appears that you do think that, it's probably best that you and I do not chat in the future -as I do not want my comments to offend or upset you. For this reason, if I do dialog with you, it will be at an absolute minimum, to avoid conflict. Please do not be offended if, after this edit, it appears I am avoiding you, I am not. Rather, I am trying to avoid trouble and it since it seems that my dialogs with you tend to stir that up, I feel it's best if we don't talk much. Regards,

] <sup><b> ] </sup></b> 08:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

== Creation-evolution poll ==

I've deleted ] as a re-creation of a deleted article. See ] and ]. ] ] 01:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:Your recreation of this article was unjustified and defied the community consensus. I'm reporting the action to the administartor's noticeboard. ] 13:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

:The report is lodged . ] 13:22, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

::No my re-creation of the article was justified, because it fixed two of your objections. Moreover, a "vote" is not the same as consensus. And Jimbo will support me on this: we can't just vote to suppress information that some POV-pusher wants to censor! ] 20:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Ed, I gotta say, I continue to be confused by your edits on this subject. Articles for individual polls?!? Maybe ] is the right place to discuss this. I've heard you say (on more than one occasion) how much you advocate NPOV, but this sort of thing looks decidedly non-neutral. I'm not questioning your intent; I'm trying to caution you on how this might look to other editors. ] ] 22:18, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

:Yeah, but get this: Joshua said it's okay! Can you believe that?! We've been dialoguing like crazy for the last day and a half, and I think we're starting to work it out: without blocks, warnings, RFC or arbcom. It's a miracle.

:Just check out the contribs of each of us on talk pages, but don't pinch me, because if it's a dream I don't want to wake up. ] 01:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

==Survey vote==
Hi EP. I'll be glad to see you casting your vote at this survey; ]. I hope it's time to find a solution to a longstanding wikipedia conflict. I've avoided it since a long time now but as the warriors from both sides finally decided to solve it by a vote, than it's a great opportunity. Thanks in advance. -- ] 21:16, 2 November 2005 (UTC) <small>]</small>

== Mediation ==

I have already responded to your vote. I do not believe I am a "high-powered sysop", and I have explained on my vote page. Thank you voting, it was getting quite over there for too long :-).] <sup><small>]|]|]</sup></Sup></font> 03:29, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== ] ==

Ed, I see that ] has been locked yet again. I suggest that it might be an idea to lay down some ground rules for resolving this dispute. In particular, I think that the debate over whether to call them Macedonians or Macedonian Slavs should be ended. I see no point in continuing this particular argument, as our policy statement at ] is quite clear on the subject. I suggest that we should also give ] a warning for revert warring and POV-pushing, both on this and other articles. -- ] 14:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
:A question for ChrisO and Ed Poor: What about the users of the other side? ] <small>]</small> 15:09, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
::I don't think either side has behaved particularly well. However, if you look at the recent of ], you will see that other users have at least sought to reach compromise solutions but Theathenae has repeatedly reverted the article. He certainly broke the 3 revert rule on 27 October and should have been blocked for that, and he has consistently refused to let go of the Macedonians / Macedonian Slavs issue. -- ] 15:22, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
:::ChrisO I'm involved with Macedonia related articles at least since early August, and I'm very well aware of what is happening. I'm more worried about the one night consensus (we almost had the same the previous days at ]), than the not-wp:civ behaviour of all parties, and I've tried in the past to talk with FlavSavr, after his disapointment of the June poll. I'd like both sides (greek and RoM) to be presented properly at WP articles, and while you have noticed problems regarding RoM side, you may have not noticed problems regarding the Greek side. However I must also state that I agree with your latest edits on the (Main) namespace and there's an open ArbCom case that I'm involved that you might find interesting. ] <small>]</small> 16:22, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

==]==
Ed, I find it hard to comprehend how in the course about two weeks, you could make roughly 650 edits to wikipedia, yet would not be able to find the time to answer half a dozen questions from the first round of mediation. The mediator has withdrawn due to a lack of response by you. ] 21:15, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

==Poll: Micronation Infobox==

An info box template has recently been created by myself and ] for use in Misplaced Pages articles about ] and other unrecognised entities, to address longstanding concerns and edit wars that have resulted from the inappropriate use of the standard country infobox in these types of articles.

This new info box has so far been successfully incorporated into the following articles: ], ], ], ], ] and ], and it is intended to incorporate it into most of the other articles in the in due course.

However, one editor, ] has suggested that the micronation infobox should be excluded from ] on the grounds that the article is "not notable" and because only 22% of micronation articles in Misplaced Pages currently have the info box (ie because the info box project is not yet complete).

As someone who has contributed to similar discussions in the past, I thought this might interest you. I have instituted a poll on this subject , and invite you to review it if you are so inclined.

Thanks. --] 06:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

:My personal issue with Gene Poole's action is that there is a conflict of interest here. One of the first micronations he added this infobox to is, conveniently enough, his own micronation. And, while he sets up a poll about whether we should add the template to the article, he did not mention the poll in ], which is the best way to make the poll visible to people who have never been involved in the issue. Instead, he posts the existence of the poll on the user pages of a number of users who he feels are symphathetic to his micronation. ] has felt that this kind of campaigning is dishonest. ] 07:17, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

::As long as micronations and real countries have distinct taxoboxes, what's the problem? Many people create "micronations" as an attention-getter, a hobby, a joke.

::There's always going to be a fuzzy boundary between "real countries"; tiny principalities or ]s / ]s like ] or ]; and joke / stunt / PR things like declaring a 20 x 60 meter platfrom a "nation".

::Let's not fight about this. Just describe what people '''outside of Misplaced Pages''' are doing and saying. Try to get above the whole thing and give teh reader's the bird's-eye view. ] 14:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

==Revert without talk==

Since on the ] page the person who you reverted to last agreed to my changes, can you change it back or at the very least add to the talkpage? ] 02:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

:I'll add to the talk page. And please see the diff: I've added some interesting points to the article. (It will take me about 10 minutes to read the talk and respond, so please don't be hasty.)

:Nice work on ], by the way. Last time I saw it, it was a fairly comprehensive list. ] 02:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


== Stalking == == A move you made in 2006 ==


Hi!
I'm concerned about this as well. Perhaps you could e-mail me. Regards, ]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">]</font></small></sup> 16:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I see that in 2006 you moved ] to ]. This move appears to have been undiscussed but if there was such a discussion, would you by any chance be able to find a link to it?


Cheers, ] (]) 12:35, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
==Winter Soldier Investigation RFC==
If you are interested ] ] 18:54, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:18, 24 December 2024


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WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter

Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter

Volume I, Issue III
February 2012

Front cover | Feature | News and announcements | Humor | Want ads

To contribute to the next newsletter, please visit the Newsletter draft page.
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Ichthus: January 2012


ICHTHUS

January 2012

In this issue...

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here

Talkback

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WikiProject Christianity September 2012 newsletter


ICHTHUS

September 2012

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 344 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, User:Floating Boat, User:Dewey420, and User:Jpacobb. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.


From the Editor
Ichthus is one of the ways that the WikiProject Christianity’s Outreach department helps update our members. We have recently added some new sections to the newsletter. Please let us know if there are changes you would like to see in the format, or if there are any particular things you would like to see included. And if you have anything you would personally like to add, by all means let us know. The talk page of the current issue is probably the best place to post such comments.

With that, I wish you all happy reading!

P.S. Please click here to add the new Christianity noticeboard to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.

By John Carter


Church of the month


by User:Diliff
The Chapel of Keble College, Oxford


Contest of the month
We currently have a remarkable lack of Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages-Books. Right now, Category:Misplaced Pages books on Christianity contains only 12 books. We certainly could have at least one book on each major grouping within Christianity. One of the challenges for this month, then, is working to put together books on relevant topics. For this month, one contest is for editors to assemble the basic Misplaced Pages books for each of the main topics of the extant related projects. When finished, they should their creation of the books at the main Christianity noticeboard, and at the end of the month the project will award barnstars to those who have made a significant efforts in developing this underdeveloped content.

Also this month, we are going to have have a challenge to create and improve some of our more important missing or low-quality articles. Last month's challenge articles were Karl Beth and Nerses IV the Gracious. Both articles are currently candidates for the DYK section of the main page. This month's challenge articles are the Stub-class article James Hastings and the not yet started Rudolf Sohm, A barnstar will be awarded to any editor who can get these articles up to DYK quality level and ultimately selected for the DYK section of the main page.


Calendar
Thie coming month (mid-September through mid-October) includes feasts dedicated to the honor of the Martyrs of Korea, Saint Matthew, Vincent de Paul, Michaelmas, Saint Jerome, Theresa of Lisieux, the Feast of the Guardian Angels, Francis of Assisi, Our Lady of the Rosary, and Teresa of Avila.

Featured content and GA report
Since the last report, Albertus Soegijapranata, and Reginald Heber were promoted to FA. Grade I listed churches in Greater Manchester was promoted to Featured List, and Jackie Hudson, Joyce Kilmer, Divine command theory, Bosa of York and Argument from morality were promoted to GA level. DYKs featured this past month include Church of Saint Benoit, Istanbul, All Saints Church, Hollingbourne, Neustädter Kirche, Hannover, St Mary's Church, Kirkby Lonsdale, Albert Ndongmo, If We Are the Body, List of places of worship in Tonbridge and Malling, Kulubnarti church, All Saints Church, Ulcombe, Val-Saint-Lambert Abbey, Igny Abbey, Church of the Holy Archangels Michael and Gabriel, Brăila, Places of Worship Registration Act 1855, Collegiate Church of San Gimignano, and St Matthew's Church, Burnley. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!

Wikimedia Foundation report

As some of you may have seen, the Simple English Misplaced Pages has been experiencing some difficulties lately. This particular entity could be of great value to several individuals who are trying to learn English. As some of you who do speak foreign languages know, one of the most easily available, and, in general, useful learning aids for people is a text they know already, which allows them to focus on the specific words of the new language. Various recorded readings and translations of the Bible are among the best examples of this. Any efforts to try to enhance this vital means of informing a large segment of our readership is more than welcome. People interested in helping develop it are encouraged to leave a note regarding their specific articles of interest at the Christianity noticeboard. It would be wonderful if we could report some significant contributions to this sister site next month. And, of course, if we do have something to report, those involved would receive our greatest thanks.

Christian art

The Guardian Angel by Pietro da Cortona.


Spotlight

WikiProject Calvinism is one of our more important subprojects. It is specifically devoted to developing content relating to the Calvinist tradition, and the primary point for development of content relating to the Pilgrims, Presbyterians, Reformed churches, Congregational church, Reformed Baptists, and Low church. We definitely encourage everyone to do what they can to help this project develop the content relating to this extremely important Christian tradition.


I believe
... that human nature is insufficient for salvation, and the grace of God is required to do so. I believe that God has preordained who will and will not achieve salvation. I believe that Jesus's atonement was sufficient for the purposes for which it was done. I believe that God's grace is of such power that it can overcome any person's resistance. I believe that those whom God has chosen for salvation will, by the undeniable power of God, persevere in God's grace. I am a Calvinist.


Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here
EdwardsBot (talk)

WikiProject Christianity October 2012 newsletter


ICHTHUS

September 2012

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 347 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, User:Dplcrnj, User:Danmuz, User:Zigzig20s, and User:Jasonasosa. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.


From the Editor
Ichthus is one of the ways that the WikiProject Christianity’s Outreach department helps update our members. This newsletter is one of the ways we do try to help people keep up with the project. We would always welcome any input for things to be included in it or additional editors to keep it going. Please let us know if there are changes you would like to see in the format, or if there are any particular things you would like to see included. And if you have anything you would personally like to add, by all means let us know. The talk page of the current issue is probably the best place to post such comments.

With that, I wish you all happy reading!

P.S. Please click here to add the new Christianity noticeboard to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.

By John Carter


Church of the month


by User:Taxiarchos228, recently promoted to Featured Image
St. Paul's Church, Basel


Contest of the month
For the upcoming month, the contest will be to develop content related to the Christmas season, including Advent and other related topics. Please feel free to see and take part in the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Christianity noticeboard#Contest of the month - Advent/Christmas content.

One of last month's challenge articles, Rudolf Sohm, has been substantially developed by User:Jack1956 and User:StAnselm. Our deepest thanks to both of them!!

Calendar
Thie coming month (mid-October through mid-November) includes All Saints' Day and All Souls' Day and major commemorations dedicated to the honor of the Ignatius of Antioch, Luke the Evangelist, Simon the Canaanite, Saint Jude, the dedication of the Lateran Basilica, the beginning of the Nativity Fast, James of Jerusalem, Reformation Day, and others.


Featured content and GA report
Since the last report, Augustinian theodicy by User:ItsZippy was promoted to FA. Grade I listed churches in Merseyside by User:Peter I. Vardy was promoted to Featured List. The images in the Church of the Month and Christian art sections of this newsletter were promoted to Featured Picture status. John Wheelwright by User:Sarnold17, Christmas Party (The Office) by User:Gen. Quon and If We Are the Body by User:Toa Nidhiki05, were promoted to GA level. DYKs featured this past month include Cathedral of Saint Demetrius, Craiova, by User:Biruitorul, Nerses IV the Gracious by User:John Carter, Church of St Candida and Holy Cross by User:BarretB, St Laurence's Church, Morland by User:Peter I. Vardy, St Mary's Church, Longfleet by User:Bermicourt, Chor von St. Bonifatius by User:Gerda Arendt, St Andrew's Church, Penrith by User:Peter I. Vardy, Holy Rosary Cathedral (Vancouver) by User:Bloom6132, Sacred Heart Cathedral (Kamloops) by User:Bloom6132, St Columba's Church, Warcop by User:Peter I. Vardy, St Oswald's Church, Ravenstonedale by User:Peter I. Vardy, and W. E. Biederwolf by User:John Foxe. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!

Christian art

Portrait of John Henry Newman by Sir John Everett Millais.
This image was promoted this past month to FM by the work of User:Spongie555. Thank you, Spongie!

Spotlight

WikiProject Holidays/Christmas task force is the group whose purpose is to help develop the content related to the Christmas season, including Advent, New Year's, and related holidays. As many of us know, in several parts of the world, including the United States, the Christmas season is not only the time of one of the greatest holidays of the Christian liturgical year, but it is also the "make or break" time for many retailers, whose profitability for the year often depends on their success in this time of the giving of sometimes significantly expensive gifts. In other parts of the world, the winter solstice period and sometimes specifically Christmas itself means something that might surprise many Christians, like the Christmas in Japan, where Christmas is one of the times hotels receive the greatest number of, often unmarried, couples staying there for the night. The solstice season is also significant to several other religions. Many of these days are also legal holidays in several places. In Belarus, for instance, both the Western and Eastern Christmas commemorations are legal holidays. We would certainly welcome the members of this project to donate some of their time and talents in the upcoming months to improving this significant content.


Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here
EdwardsBot (talk)

WikiProject Christianity October 2012 newsletter


ICHTHUS

November 2012

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 349 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, User:Hayayika and User:Pikachu Bros.. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.


From the Editor
Ichthus is one of the ways that the WikiProject Christianity’s Outreach department helps update our members. This newsletter is one of the ways we do try to help people keep up with the project. We would always welcome any input for things to be included in it or additional editors to keep it going. Please let us know if there are changes you would like to see in the format, or if there are any particular things you would like to see included. And if you have anything you would personally like to add, by all means let us know. The talk page of the current issue is probably the best place to post such comments.

With that, I wish you all happy reading!

P.S. Please click here to add the new Christianity noticeboard to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.

By John Carter


Church of the month


Saint-Augustin, Paris by User:Saffron Blaze

Recently promoted to Featured Image. Great work!


Contest of the month
For the upcoming month, the contest will continue with the Christmas theme, including Advent and other related topics. Please feel free to see and take part in discussion at the Christianity noticeboard.


Calendar
This coming month (mid-November through mid-December) includes the Advent season. Other major feasts are those of Margaret of Scotland, Matthew the Evangelist, Hilda of Whitby, Elizabeth of Hungary, Edmund the Martyr, the Presentation of Mary, Saint Cecilia, Clement of Rome, Catherine of Alexandria, Andrew the Apostle, Francis Xavier, Saint Barbara, John Damascene, Nicholas of Myra, Saint Ambrose of Milan, Feast of the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Lucy of Syracuse, and others.


Featured content and GA report
Since the last report, Crucifixion and Last Judgement diptych by, among others, User:Truthkeeper88, User:Ceoil, and User:Kafka Liz and Mitt Romney by User:Wasted Time R were promoted to FA. List of 2000s Christian Songs number ones by User:Toa Nidhiki05 was promoted to Featured List. The two images in the Church of the Month and Christian art sections of this newsletter were promoted to Featured Picture status, as were these two images of Michelangelo's Pieta and of Giovanni Bellini's Saint Francis in the Desert . Derek Webb by User: Pepsi2786 and others, and Scipione Piattoli by User:Piotrus were promoted to GA level. DYKs featured this past month include Archdiocese of Râmnic, by User:Biruitorul, Diocese of Caransebeş by User:Biruitorul, Wythburn Church by User:Peter I. Vardy, St. Gumbertus, Ansbach by User:Gerda Arendt, User:Dr. Blofeld, and User:Nvvchar collectively, St. Johannis, Ansbach by User:Gerda Arendt, User:Dr. Blofeld, and User:Nvvchar collectively, Nikollë Bojaxhiu by User:ZjarriRrethues, All Saints Church, Lydd by User:Dr. Blofeld, User:Rosiestep, User:Gilderien, and User:Ipigott collectively, St Mary's Church, Acton Burnell by User:Peter I. Vardy, St Eata's Church, Atcham by User:Peter I. Vardy, Nativity of St. John the Baptist Church, Piatra Neamț by User:Biruitorul, Anna Schäffer by User:Shii, List of Archbishops of Vancouver by User: Bloom6132, James Francis Carney by User:Bloom6132, St Luke's Church, Chelsea by User:PKM and User:Johnbod, Gregory Orologas by User:Alexikoua, Ambrosios Pleianthidis by User:Alexikoua, and St Giles' Church, Barrow, by User:Peter I. Vardy. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!

Christian art

Three scenes of the legend of the Miraculous Sacrament, in which communion wafers were reported to bleed after being stabbed, in the St. Michael and St. Gudula Cathedral, Brussels by Jean-Baptiste Capronnier.
This image was promoted this past month to FM by the work of User:Alvesgaspar. Thank you, Alvesgaspar!

Spotlight

The core topics work group is the group whose specific purpose is to help identify and develop those articles which are of greatest importance to an overall understanding of the broad subject of Christianity, based on what is included in the core topics list. These articles include some of specific churches and individuals, history, philosophical and theological matters, and more. We have had some recent discussion regarding which articles should be included in this list, and it probably makes sense to revisit the selections, and try to figure out how best to work to make them high quality articles. Discussion is beginning at WT:X regarding these matters, and all input is welcome.


Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Misplaced Pages • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here
EdwardsBot (talk)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (June 2013)


ICHTHUS

June 2013

From the Editor

Since its formation in 2006, WikiProject Christianity has come a long way. A significant number of new articles have appeared on a wide range of topics, and the quality of some key articles has seen dramatic improvement. Yet, by the very nature of the open, crowd-sourced development environment in which we operate, as the number of pages in the project has increased at times our attention has been naturally diluted. We should of course strive for quality everywhere, but we should remember that this newsletter is called Ichthus.

Starting this month we will start a "Focus on" series, where we will try to "bring Jesus back" and focus on him. For five consecutive issues we will focus on one aspect of the study of Jesus. The goal of this series is to inform our members of what the project contains and highlight those articles which have reached quality and stability.

From this month until November we will focus on the historical Jesus, a topic which has been the subject of much discussion on article talk pages, as well as the general media. This is an important topic, and we have a good set of well referenced articles on that now. Then, starting in December we will focus on Christ, and the spiritual and theological elements that the title entails. Following that the review of the life and ministry of Jesus in the New Testament, his miracles, and parables will take place. And each month the "Bookshelf" will mention a book that fits the theme of the month.

We hope you will enjoy this journey as we present a new aspect of Jesus each month. And given that as the number of project pages increases, the ratio of those watching the pages declines, we hope that more of you will watch some of these central pages that help define this project.


Church of the month

The current building of All Saints' Church, Winthorpe in Nottinghamshire, England which was completed in 1888, is at least the third version of the church, which dates back to at least the early 13th century.


Good articles and DYKs
The article Jesus received the good article mark last month, as did Cleeve Abbey. A number of churches were featured on the main page in the DYK section in May, namely St. Lamberti, Hildesheim, Karja church, Braaby Church, St Patrick's Liverpool, Vlah Church, Freerslev Church, Cathedral of Our Lady of the Assumption, Mata-Utu, St. Michael's Cathedral (Sitka, Alaska), St. Lamberti, Hildesheim, Karja church, Braaby Church, St. Pierre Cathedral, Saint-Pierre, Mont Saint Michel Abbey, St Patrick's Church, Liverpool, Vlah Church, St Catherine of Siena Church, Cocking, Catedral Nuestra Señora de La Asunción, Roholte Church, Notre Dame Cathedral, Taiohae, Leicester Abbey, Caracas Cathedral, Caldey Abbey, King's Mead Priory, Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception (Hong Kong) andAll Saints' Church, Winthorpe, as well as the hymn What Wondrous Love Is This.

Focus on...

THE
HISTORICAL JESUS

Did Jesus exist? Did he walk the streets of Jerusalem? The Historicity of Jesus article answers these questions with a firm affirmative. Historicity does not discuss if Jesus walked on water, but if he walked at all. The issue was the subject of scholarly debate before the end of last century, but the academic debate is almost over now. As the article discusses, virtually all academic opposition to the existence of Jesus has evaporated away now and scholars see it as a concluded issue. The discussion is now just among mostly self-published non-academics.

In 2011 John Dickson tweeted that if anyone finds a professor of history who denies that Jesus lived,he would eat a page of his Bible (Matthew 1 he said). Dickson's Bible is still safe.

The article discusses the ancient sources that relate to Jesus and how they fit together to establish that he existed. The evidence for Jesus is not just based on the Christian gospels, but by inter-relating them with non-Christian sources, and the fact that they all "fit together". Moreover, the existence of Jesus is not supported just by Christian scholars and in recent years the detailed knowledge of Jewish scholars and their discoveries (e.g. Shlomo Pines' discovery of the Syriac Josephus) has proven highly beneficial. We encourage you to read and follow the article, for the existence of Jesus is central to the existence of Christianity.

From the bookshelf

Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence by Robert Van Voorst, 2000 ISBN 0-8028-4368-9

Just a few years after its publication, Van Voorst's book has become the standard comprehensive text for the discussion of ancient sources that relate to Jesus and his historicity. This detailed yet really readable book has received wide ranging endorsements - Blomberg and Harris separately referring to it as the most comprehensive treatment of the subject.

Did you know...

A Handel manuscript
  • ... that Johann Sebastian Bach wrote the initials "S. D. G.", for Soli Deo Gloria, at the beginning and end of all his church compositions to give God credit for the work, and that Handel at times did the same?

Calendar
The coming month includes days dedicated to the honor of Beheading of John the Baptist, Saints Peter and Paul, the Nativity of John the Baptist, and Saint Barnabas.

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity.
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the listhere

EdwardsBot (talk)

NYC Wiki-Picnic: Saturday June 22

Great American Wiknic NYC at Prospect Park
You are invited to the Great American Wiknic NYC in Brooklyn's green and lovely Prospect Park, on this Saturday June 22! We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the potluck :) -- User:Pharos (talk)

Misplaced Pages Takes Brooklyn! Saturday September 7

Brookln Public Library
 Please join Misplaced Pages Takes Brooklyn scavenger hunt on September 7, 2013!
Everyone gather at the Brooklyn Public Library to further Misplaced Pages's coverage of—
photos and articles related to Brooklyn, its neighborhoods and the local landmarks.
--EdwardsBot (talk)

Wikimedia NYC Meetup- "Queens Open History Edit-a-Thon" at Queens Library! Friday December 6

Queens Library
 Please join Queens Open History Edit-a-Thon on December 6, 2013!
Everyone gather at Queens Library to further Misplaced Pages's local outreach
for borough articles on the history and the communities.
Drop-ins welcome 10am-7pm!--Pharos (talk) ~~~~~

New England Misplaced Pages Day @ MIT: Saturday Jan 18

NE Meetup #4: January 18 at MIT Building 5

Dear Fellow Wikimedian,

You have been invited to the New England Wikimedians 2014 kick-off party and Misplaced Pages Day Celebration at Building Five on the Massachusetts Institute of Technology campus on Saturday, January 18th, from 3-5 PM. Afterwards, we will be holding an informal dinner at a local restaurant. If you are curious to join us, please do so, as we are always looking for people to come and give their opinion! Finally, be sure to RSVP here if you're interested.

I hope to see you there! Kevin Rutherford (talk)

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Saturday: NYC Art And Feminism Misplaced Pages Editathon

Jefferson Market Public Library
 Please join Misplaced Pages "Art and Feminism Editathon" @ Eyebeam on Saturday February 1, 2014,
an event aimed at collaboratively expanding Misplaced Pages articles covering Art and Feminism, and the biographies of women artists!

There are also regional events that day in Brooklyn, Westchester County, and the Hudson Valley.
--Pharos (talk)

Upcoming Saturday events - March 1: Harlem History Editathon and March 8: NYU Law Editathon

Upcoming Saturday events - March 1: Harlem History Editathon and March 8: NYU Law Editathon

You are invited to join upcoming Misplaced Pages "Editathons", where both experienced and new Misplaced Pages editors will collaboratively improve articles on a selected theme, on the following two Saturdays in March:

I hope to see you there! Pharos (talk)

(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by removing your name from this list.)

You're invited: Women's History Edit-a-thons in Massachusetts this March

Women's History Edit-a-thons in Massachusetts this March - You are invited!
New England Wikimedians is excited to announce a series of Misplaced Pages edit-a-thons that will be taking place at colleges and universities throughout Massachusetts as part of Wikiwomen's History Month from March 1 - March 31. We encourage you to join in an edit-a-thon near you, or to participate remotely if you are unable to attend in person (for the full list of articles, click here). Events are currently planned for the cities/towns of Boston, Northampton, South Hadley, and Cambridge. Further information on dates and locations can be found on our user group page.
Questions? Contact Girona7 (talk)

You're invited!

NE Meetup #5: April 19th at Clover Food Lab in Kendall Square

Dear Fellow Wikimedian,

New England Wikimedians would like to invite you to the April 2014 meeting, which will be a small-scale meetup of all interested Wikimedians from the New England area. We will socialize, review regional events from the beginning of the year, look ahead to regional events of 2014, and discuss other things of interest to the group. Be sure to RSVP here if you're interested.

Also, if you haven't done so already, please consider signing up for our mailing list and connect with us on Facebook and Twitter.

We hope to see you there!

Kevin Rutherford (talk) and Maia Weinstock (talk)

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Edit-a-thon invite

You're invited to the Peabody Essex Museum Edit-a-thon Spring 2014

On May 3rd, the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, Massachusetts will be hosting a Native American and Chinese Art edit-a-thon from 9:00-5:00 pm. You are more than welcome to attend, as there will be free food and drink, and an outing afterwards. If you are interested, please sign up here, as we would love to see you there!

If you have any questions, please leave a message at Ed Rodley's talk page. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from this list.

Adrianne Wadewitz Memorial edit-a-thons

Adrianne Wadewitz edit-a-thons in Southern New England

As you may have already heard, the Misplaced Pages community lost an invaluable member of the community last month. Adrianne Wadewitz was a feminist scholar of 18th-Century British literature, and a prolific editor of the site. As part of a worldwide series of tributes, New England Wikimedians, in conjunction with local institutions of higher learning, have created three edit-a-thons that will be occurring in May and June. The events are as follows:

We hope that you will be able to join us, whether you are an experienced editor or are using Misplaced Pages for the first time.

If you have any questions, please leave a message at Kevin Rutherford's talk page. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from this list.

New England Wikimedians summer events!

Upcoming events hosted by New England Wikimedians!

After many months of doubt, nature has finally warmed up and summer is almost here! The New England Wikimedians user group have planned some upcoming events. This includes some unique and interesting events to those who are interested:

Although we also aren't hosting this year's Wikimania, we would like to let you know that Wikimania this year will be occurring in London in August:

If you have any questions, please leave a message at Kevin Rutherford's talk page. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from this list.

New England Wikimedians summer events!

Upcoming events hosted by New England Wikimedians!

After many months of doubt, nature has finally warmed up and summer is almost here! The New England Wikimedians user group have planned some upcoming events. This includes some unique and interesting events to those who are interested:

Although we also aren't hosting this year's Wikimania, we would like to let you know that Wikimania this year will be occurring in London in August:

If you have any questions, please leave a message at Kevin Rutherford's talk page. You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Boston-area events by removing your name from this list.

Saturday June 21: Wiki Loves Pride

Upcoming Saturday event - June 21: Wiki Loves Pride NYC

You are invited to join us at Jefferson Market Library for "Wiki Loves Pride", hosted by New York Public Library, Metropolitan New York Library Council, Wikimedia LGBT and Wikimedia New York City, where both experienced and new Misplaced Pages editors will collaboratively improve articles on this theme:

11am–4pm at Jefferson Market Library.

We hope to see you there! Pharos (talk)

(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by removing your name from this list.)

Wiki Loves Pride!

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

  • What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
  • When? June 2015
  • How can you help?
    1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
    2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Misplaced Pages articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
    3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Misplaced Pages, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.


Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

Saturday April 30: Contemporary Art of the Middle East and North Africa @ Guggenheim

Saturday April 30, 1-6pm: Contemporary Art of the Middle East and North Africa @ Guggenheim
File:Monir Portrait-exh ph021.jpg

On Saturday April 30, 2016, in conjunction with a global campaign, the Guggenheim will host its fourth Misplaced Pages edit-a-thon — or, #guggathon — to enhance Misplaced Pages's coverage of modern and contemporary artists from the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region, and to counter geocultural systemic bias on Misplaced Pages.

The Guggenheim aims to further the goals of the Guggenheim UBS MAP Global Art Initiative, and build on the model of campaigns like the Misplaced Pages Edit-a-thon at the Guggenheim: Women in Architecture, Misplaced Pages Asian Month, and Art+Feminism.

New and experienced editors are welcome. The event will include a training session for participants who are new to Misplaced Pages and Misplaced Pages specialists will be on hand to provide basic instruction and editing support.

Can’t join us in New York? Visit our global MENA Artists Month partnership page to coordinate international and online events as well.

Time: Presentation: 1:00 pm - 2:30 pm, Edit-a-thon: 2:30pm - 6:00pm
Location: Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, 1071 Fifth Avenue (88th Street), New York City, New York 10128
Guests should enter using the 88th Street entrance via the ramp at 88th Street and Fifth Avenue

Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --Pharos (talk) ~~~~~

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ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Ed Poor. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page.

November 15: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC @ NYU ITP

Wednesday November 15, 7pm: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC @ NYU ITP

You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening salon (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at NYU ITP Tisch School of the Arts (4th floor) at 721 Broadway in Manhattan.

We will include a look at the organization and planning for our chapter, and expanding volunteer roles for both regular Misplaced Pages editors and new participants.

We will also follow up on plans for recent and upcoming edit-a-thons, museum and library projects, education initiatives, and other outreach activities.

We welcome the participation of our friends from the Free Culture movement and from all educational and cultural institutions interested in developing free knowledge projects.

After the main meeting, pizza/chicken/vegetables and refreshments and video games in the gallery!

7:00pm - 9:00 pm at NYU ITP Tisch School of the Arts (4th floor), 721 Broadway
(note that we are not at Babycastles this month)

We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --Pharos (talk) ~~~~~

P.S. You are also invited to Misplaced Pages Asian Month Edit-a-thon @ Metropolitan Museum of Art on Sunday November 19!

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

March 21: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC

Wednesday March 21, 7pm: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC

You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening salon (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at Babycastles gallery by 14th Street / Union Square in Manhattan.

We will include a look at the organization and planning for our chapter, and expanding volunteer roles for both regular Misplaced Pages editors and new participants.

We will also follow up on plans for recent and upcoming edit-a-thons, museum and library projects, education initiatives, and other outreach activities.

We welcome the participation of our friends from the Free Culture movement and from all educational and cultural institutions interested in developing free knowledge projects.

After the main meeting, pizza/chicken/vegetables and refreshments and video games in the gallery!

7:00pm - 9:00 pm at Babycastles gallery, 145 West 14th Street
(note the new address, a couple of doors down from the former Babycastles location)

We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --Megs (talk)

P.S. You are also invited to Art + Feminism Events in the New York Metropolitan Area continuing this month!

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

CANCELLED: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC

CANCELLED: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC

Due to the winter storm warning, the WikiWednesday Salon & Skillshare scheduled for March 21st has been cancelled. Please consider attending one of the many edit-a-thons scheduled for this week. We look forward to editing with you soon!

--Megs (talk)

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC

Wednesday April 25th, 7pm: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC

You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our monthly WikiWednesday evening salon (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at Babycastles gallery. We welcome the participation of our friends from the Free Culture movement and from all educational and cultural institutions interested in developing free knowledge projects.

Is there a project you'd like to share? A question you'd like answered? A Wiki* skill you'd like to learn? Let us know by adding it to the agenda! After the main meeting, pizza and video games in the gallery.

7:00pm - 9:00 pm at Babycastles gallery, 145 West 14th Street
(note the new address, a couple of doors down from the former Babycastles location)

We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our agenda, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --Megs (talk)

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

Sept 25: WikiWednesday Salon NYC

September 25, 7pm: WikiWednesday Salon NYC

You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our monthly "WikiWednesday" evening salon (7-9pm) and knowledge-sharing workshop at Metropolitan New York Library Council in Midtown Manhattan. Is there a project you'd like to share? A question you'd like answered? A Wiki* skill you'd like to learn? Let us know by adding it to the agenda.

7:00pm - 9:00 pm at Metropolitan New York Library Council (8th floor) at 599 11th Avenue, Manhattan
(note this month we will be meeting in Midtown Manhattan, not at Babycastles)

We especially encourage folks to add your 5-minute lightning talks to our roster, and otherwise join in the "open space" experience! Newcomers are very welcome! Bring your friends and colleagues! --Wikimedia New York City Team ~~~~~

(You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future notifications for NYC-area events by adding or removing your name from this list.)

A move you made in 2006

Hi! I see that in 2006 you moved Israeli Arabs to Arab citizens of Israel. This move appears to have been undiscussed but if there was such a discussion, would you by any chance be able to find a link to it?

Cheers, RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 12:35, 12 December 2024 (UTC)