| Revision as of 21:22, 23 March 2009 editMeowy (talk | contribs)8,706 edits →Novruz in Azerbaijan: Removed a bad-faith comment attacking an editor← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 11:39, 8 February 2023 edit undoMalnadachBot (talk | contribs)11,637,095 editsm Fixed Lint errors. (Task 12)Tag: AWB | ||
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| :''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' | |||
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| The result was '''keep'''. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 02:35, 31 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :{{la|Novruz in Azerbaijan}} (<span class="plainlinks">]}}&action=delete}} delete]</span>) – <includeonly>(])</includeonly><noinclude>(])</noinclude> | :{{la|Novruz in Azerbaijan}} (<span class="plainlinks">]}}&action=delete}} delete]</span>) – <includeonly>(])</includeonly><noinclude>(])</noinclude> | ||
| The article is a fork of the ] article and does not contain anything more than what is contained in the Novruz article. Novruz is not an event specific to Azerbaijan, and the term "Novruz in Azerbaijan" doesn't actually exist. There is no need to have country-specific entries for global festivals. For example, we do not have articles titled "Christmas in Germany" or "Easter in France" or "New Year in Spain", we just have entries for the actual festivals or holidays. ] 19:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC) | The article is a fork of the ] article and does not contain anything more than what is contained in the Novruz article. Novruz is not an event specific to Azerbaijan, and the term "Novruz in Azerbaijan" doesn't actually exist. There is no need to have country-specific entries for global festivals. For example, we do not have articles titled "Christmas in Germany" or "Easter in France" or "New Year in Spain", we just have entries for the actual festivals or holidays. ] 19:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Comment''' ''For example, we do not have articles titled "Christmas in Germany"'' ... ] is never a very persuasive argument, and besides we have ]. The question here is the usual ] issue: whether there's enough material out there about Nr in Azerbaijan and how it differs from other countries, as opposed to simply Novruz in general. One easy place to start would be the history of its official treatment by the government: how was it treated during the Soviet period, when did the government make it an official holiday, how many vacation days do people get for it --- 's a start. ] (]) 05:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | *'''Comment''' ''For example, we do not have articles titled "Christmas in Germany"'' ... ] is never a very persuasive argument, and besides we have ]. The question here is the usual ] issue: whether there's enough material out there about Nr in Azerbaijan and how it differs from other countries, as opposed to simply Novruz in general. One easy place to start would be the history of its official treatment by the government: how was it treated during the Soviet period, when did the government make it an official holiday, how many vacation days do people get for it --- 's a start. ] (]) 05:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| **I added a few sources, but they're pretty meagre. If more can't be found, I wouldn't object to a '''merge''' back to ]. ] (]) 06:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | **I added a few sources, but they're pretty meagre. If more can't be found, I wouldn't object to a '''merge''' back to ]. ] (]) 06:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Keep'''. The holiday has several distinct features unique to this country. The article may be not in its best form, but certainly does not deserve deletion, especially as compared to such holiday-specific entries as ] or ]. ]] 11:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | *'''Keep'''. The holiday has several distinct features unique to this country. The article may be not in its best form, but certainly does not deserve deletion, especially as compared to such holiday-specific entries as ] or ]. ]] 11:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| ::What distinct features? It doesn't seem to have any. Also, it is strange that for Iran, where the festival is of far greater importance both culturally and numerically, there is no need for a separate article. Yes, there IS a seprarate article for its celebration amongst Kurds - but they are an ethnic group, not a country, and for them it does have distinct features (its political and self-determination aspects). I'm not suggesting removing information, just questioning the need for an article that does nothing more than duplicate what is already in the main Novruz article. Maybe merge would have been a better proposal to make, but I felt that since it is already all in the main article, there wouldn't be much to merge. ] 17:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ::What distinct features? It doesn't seem to have any. Also, it is strange that for Iran, where the festival is of far greater importance both culturally and numerically, there is no need for a separate article. Yes, there IS a seprarate article for its celebration amongst Kurds - but they are an ethnic group, not a country, and for them it does have distinct features (its political and self-determination aspects). I'm not suggesting removing information, just questioning the need for an article that does nothing more than duplicate what is already in the main Novruz article. Maybe merge would have been a better proposal to make, but I felt that since it is already all in the main article, there wouldn't be much to merge. ] 17:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| :::Green sprouts of samani with ribbon (not ]), khoncha, which differs from ] and so forth. Yet another thing I expected :) ]] 20:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | :::Green sprouts of samani with ribbon (not ]), khoncha, which differs from ] and so forth. Yet another thing I expected :) ]] 20:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Keep'''. Novruz is our national holiday, as well as whole Middle East. Something sinful or shameful here? ]-] 19:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | *'''Keep'''. Novruz is our national holiday, as well as whole Middle East. Something sinful or shameful here? ]-] 19:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
| *<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the ]. </small> <small>] (]) 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)</small> | |||
| *'''Comment''' I do not have a clear choice. The article is not very long and can be merged under the section Azerbaijan in the main Nowruz article. It is however important event in Azerbaijan as it is their national holiday. You should better take all its content and add it there if you merge it with the main article.--] (]) 09:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::] in his book ''Old Baku'' mentions many peculiarities of Azerbaijani Novruz celebration. I think the article has a potential. ]] 19:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::::: With all due respect. I do not know what is your aim to say this. Traditions of Nowruz in the republic of Azerbaijan is similar to that in Iran. Of course, even within one country exist local differences. These were not things for which I said the article has the right of existence. A general article can adress similarities in all countries and in different subsections the local variations. Note that many sources speak only about Nowruz and not about in which country. I said that it has a right to existence b4cause of how it was first and how it was treated in the Soviet times and how it is revived as a national holiday--] (]) 23:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.'''</span><br/><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 00:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --> | |||
| ::::::Actually Azeri traditions are not totally similar to the Iranian ones. The Novruz article is already too big to address the related concerns. ]] 21:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::with all du respect what you say does not make sense. A big portion of Iranian population notably in Tehran is Azeri. Azeri traditions are a variety of Iranian traditions in general. It is logical that tradtions in the republic of Azerbaijan show minor differences to those in Iran, but these are not larger than those in Afghanistan or by Kurds which are also included in the main article. At first I was Ok with keeping this article but after having seen branmeister-spoit;s comments I think it is better to '''delete''' this and move its content to the main article. I do not know why Brandmeister-spoit is making a political issue out od this cultural event.--] (]) 00:47, 28 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Babak, the logic does not pass here, but facts. Naturally, Azeris who live in Iran celebrate the holiday as Iranians, but those in Azerbaijan (including me) celebrate it differently. And where I am making a political issue here? ]] 14:46, 28 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::: interestingly you said on yyour userpage that you are a catholic now you say you are an Azeri from the republic of Azerbaijan. All your edits here and in other articles shows that you are trying to show artifically that the republic of Azerbaijan has not much to do with the Iranian world. As I said therer are regional varaitations even within Iran, but in general Nowruz is a tradition shared by many people inside and outside the modern day country of Iran. I was first Ok to have a separate article for the republic of Azerbaijan but then your motivations detered me and now I am in favor of '''merging''' it with the main article. The priority of the republic of Azerbaijan wikiproject can then be elevated to top level, and you are welcome to add more facts to it. To the main section and to the section about Novruz in the republic of Azerbaijan. By the way do you have any ideas, of what date are the local differences? And Whay? Any variations even within the republic of Azerbaijan?--] (]) 08:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Personally I don't bind denomination to Novruz as it already existed in pre-Islamic times and still does not bear any religious tone. And yes, even within the Republic of Azerbaijan there are variations, see my notions above. ]] 11:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Keep''' on the same basis as similar articles mentioned above:national customs of this sort regarding major religious holidays are often significant. I see from the discussion above that the article can probably be expanded. ''']''' (]) 17:05, 27 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Novruz is not a national custom, it is a transnational custom whose participants are of several distinct ethnicities. That is what I was trying to show when I made the comparison with Christmas or Easter. ] 17:38, 28 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Merge with ]''' : so far, I've seen nothing justifying a separate article. ] (]) 01:17, 28 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Keep''' The Novruz celebrations in Azerbaijan have their own tradition. ]] 14:51, 28 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> | |||
Latest revision as of 11:39, 8 February 2023
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. MBisanz 02:35, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Novruz in Azerbaijan
- Novruz in Azerbaijan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
The article is a fork of the Novruz article and does not contain anything more than what is contained in the Novruz article. Novruz is not an event specific to Azerbaijan, and the term "Novruz in Azerbaijan" doesn't actually exist. There is no need to have country-specific entries for global festivals. For example, we do not have articles titled "Christmas in Germany" or "Easter in France" or "New Year in Spain", we just have entries for the actual festivals or holidays. Meowy 19:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
- Comment For example, we do not have articles titled "Christmas in Germany" ... WP:OTHERCRAPDOESNTEXIST is never a very persuasive argument, and besides we have Category:Christmas traditions by country. The question here is the usual WP:N issue: whether there's enough material out there about Nr in Azerbaijan and how it differs from other countries, as opposed to simply Novruz in general. One easy place to start would be the history of its official treatment by the government: how was it treated during the Soviet period, when did the government make it an official holiday, how many vacation days do people get for it --- here's a start. cab (talk) 05:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- I added a few sources, but they're pretty meagre. If more can't be found, I wouldn't object to a merge back to Novruz#Novruz in Azerbaijan. cab (talk) 06:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- Keep. The holiday has several distinct features unique to this country. The article may be not in its best form, but certainly does not deserve deletion, especially as compared to such holiday-specific entries as Japanese New Year or Egg decorating in Slavic culture. brandспойт 11:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- What distinct features? It doesn't seem to have any. Also, it is strange that for Iran, where the festival is of far greater importance both culturally and numerically, there is no need for a separate article. Yes, there IS a seprarate article for its celebration amongst Kurds - but they are an ethnic group, not a country, and for them it does have distinct features (its political and self-determination aspects). I'm not suggesting removing information, just questioning the need for an article that does nothing more than duplicate what is already in the main Novruz article. Maybe merge would have been a better proposal to make, but I felt that since it is already all in the main article, there wouldn't be much to merge. Meowy 17:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- Green sprouts of samani with ribbon (not samanu), khoncha, which differs from Haft-Sin and so forth. Yet another thing I expected :) brandспойт 20:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- What distinct features? It doesn't seem to have any. Also, it is strange that for Iran, where the festival is of far greater importance both culturally and numerically, there is no need for a separate article. Yes, there IS a seprarate article for its celebration amongst Kurds - but they are an ethnic group, not a country, and for them it does have distinct features (its political and self-determination aspects). I'm not suggesting removing information, just questioning the need for an article that does nothing more than duplicate what is already in the main Novruz article. Maybe merge would have been a better proposal to make, but I felt that since it is already all in the main article, there wouldn't be much to merge. Meowy 17:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- Keep. Novruz is our national holiday, as well as whole Middle East. Something sinful or shameful here? Ateshi-Baghavan 19:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Azerbaijan-related deletion discussions. cab (talk) 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
- Comment I do not have a clear choice. The article is not very long and can be merged under the section Azerbaijan in the main Nowruz article. It is however important event in Azerbaijan as it is their national holiday. You should better take all its content and add it there if you merge it with the main article.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
- Huseyngulu Sarabski in his book Old Baku mentions many peculiarities of Azerbaijani Novruz celebration. I think the article has a potential. brandспойт 19:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
- With all due respect. I do not know what is your aim to say this. Traditions of Nowruz in the republic of Azerbaijan is similar to that in Iran. Of course, even within one country exist local differences. These were not things for which I said the article has the right of existence. A general article can adress similarities in all countries and in different subsections the local variations. Note that many sources speak only about Nowruz and not about in which country. I said that it has a right to existence b4cause of how it was first and how it was treated in the Soviet times and how it is revived as a national holiday--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
- Huseyngulu Sarabski in his book Old Baku mentions many peculiarities of Azerbaijani Novruz celebration. I think the article has a potential. brandспойт 19:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz 00:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)- Actually Azeri traditions are not totally similar to the Iranian ones. The Novruz article is already too big to address the related concerns. brandспойт 21:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- with all du respect what you say does not make sense. A big portion of Iranian population notably in Tehran is Azeri. Azeri traditions are a variety of Iranian traditions in general. It is logical that tradtions in the republic of Azerbaijan show minor differences to those in Iran, but these are not larger than those in Afghanistan or by Kurds which are also included in the main article. At first I was Ok with keeping this article but after having seen branmeister-spoit;s comments I think it is better to delete this and move its content to the main article. I do not know why Brandmeister-spoit is making a political issue out od this cultural event.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:47, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- Babak, the logic does not pass here, but facts. Naturally, Azeris who live in Iran celebrate the holiday as Iranians, but those in Azerbaijan (including me) celebrate it differently. And where I am making a political issue here? brandспойт 14:46, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- interestingly you said on yyour userpage that you are a catholic now you say you are an Azeri from the republic of Azerbaijan. All your edits here and in other articles shows that you are trying to show artifically that the republic of Azerbaijan has not much to do with the Iranian world. As I said therer are regional varaitations even within Iran, but in general Nowruz is a tradition shared by many people inside and outside the modern day country of Iran. I was first Ok to have a separate article for the republic of Azerbaijan but then your motivations detered me and now I am in favor of merging it with the main article. The priority of the republic of Azerbaijan wikiproject can then be elevated to top level, and you are welcome to add more facts to it. To the main section and to the section about Novruz in the republic of Azerbaijan. By the way do you have any ideas, of what date are the local differences? And Whay? Any variations even within the republic of Azerbaijan?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
- Personally I don't bind denomination to Novruz as it already existed in pre-Islamic times and still does not bear any religious tone. And yes, even within the Republic of Azerbaijan there are variations, see my notions above. brandспойт 11:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
- interestingly you said on yyour userpage that you are a catholic now you say you are an Azeri from the republic of Azerbaijan. All your edits here and in other articles shows that you are trying to show artifically that the republic of Azerbaijan has not much to do with the Iranian world. As I said therer are regional varaitations even within Iran, but in general Nowruz is a tradition shared by many people inside and outside the modern day country of Iran. I was first Ok to have a separate article for the republic of Azerbaijan but then your motivations detered me and now I am in favor of merging it with the main article. The priority of the republic of Azerbaijan wikiproject can then be elevated to top level, and you are welcome to add more facts to it. To the main section and to the section about Novruz in the republic of Azerbaijan. By the way do you have any ideas, of what date are the local differences? And Whay? Any variations even within the republic of Azerbaijan?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
- Keep on the same basis as similar articles mentioned above:national customs of this sort regarding major religious holidays are often significant. I see from the discussion above that the article can probably be expanded. DGG (talk) 17:05, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- Novruz is not a national custom, it is a transnational custom whose participants are of several distinct ethnicities. That is what I was trying to show when I made the comparison with Christmas or Easter. Meowy 17:38, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- Merge with Nowruz : so far, I've seen nothing justifying a separate article. Sardur (talk) 01:17, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- Keep The Novruz celebrations in Azerbaijan have their own tradition. Grandmaster 14:51, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.