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'''''This is an attempt to make the archives ] to new and old editors of this page. It is an attempt to link significant past discussions which remain relevant. Please feel free to edit this post to include links to any topics you feel are relevant.'''''

When considering editing the ] article, please try to review topics which have already been discussed on the talk page. Major recurring themes are, in chronological order from the most recent; in particular ''please'' read past NPOV discussions before raising them again.
#NPOV: ], ], ], ], ]
#The gateway drug question: ], ]
#Opening paragraph: ]
#The Osteen Decision: ], ]
#Creation of ] article from this one: ]
#Creation of ] and ] articles from this one: ]
#Chemicals contained in tobacco: ], ]

Other topics which have been discussed at some length relate to smoking and (in alphabetical order):
*]: ]
*Health Services: ]
*]: ], ]
*] and its effects: ]
*]: ]
*Religion: ]
*Sexual selection: ]
*]: ]
*] (whether the two are linked): ]
|}
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== Cite to BMJ on why people smoke (because addicted -- want and try to quit but can't) ==

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/335/7609/37?fmr

:"Cross sectional studies show that most smokers in countries such as the United Kingdom and the United States report that they want to stop and intend to stop at some point.1 The rate of attempts to stop is high—78 attempts per 100 smokers per year in the UK—with many smokers making several attempts in a year.2 Nearly half of all smokers expect not to be smoking in a year's time,3 but only 2-3% actually stop permanently each year.3

:The most common reasons smokers give for smoking are stress relief and enjoyment,4 but the main reason is nicotine dependence. Nicotine acts in the midbrain, creating impulses to smoke in the face of stimuli associated with smoking.5 Consequent changes in brain chemistry also produce "nicotine hunger" when a smoker goes without nicotine. A third mechanism underlying nicotine dependence is nicotine withdrawal: unpleasant mood and physical symptoms that occur on abstinence and are relieved by smoking.6 7 Nicotine dependence is the main reason that most unassisted quit attempts fail within a week.8 We give evidence based recommendations and new treatment options for healthcare professionals to increase the success rate of these attempts. Most evidence for treatment comes from randomised controlled trials summarised in the Cochrane reviews for tobacco dependence.

== 2009 Copyedit, Layout, and Coordination Log ==

I'll add notes about the layout of this article as I go. There is an overemphasis and somewhat loose or poor organization in health effects, reasons for take up, and so forth. This article exceeds 65KB and under ] is open for spinoffs, which move individual sections into their own articles and a summery section would be created in its place (], ]). There is an omission of the a potential history section, which would take combine the histories of the histories of tobacco and histories of smoking.<p>So far I have completed the "Demographics" section, which exports responsibility to its main article ] (formerly ]); and reorganized the "Consumption" section. "Health effects" would be difficult to reorganize since it contains information not found in the main article, ]. ] (]) 23:44, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Health effects reorganization:
:* "Establishing a link between smoking and health effects" → "Historical links"; self-reference, unnecessarily long, discusses only the historical aspects.
:* "Health risks of smoking" → "Effects"; possible rename, self-reference
:* "Lung dysfunction" → "Pulmonary"; ''dysfunction'' is inherently both non-neutral and somewhat unencyclopedic, we also want to introduce the reader to the vocabulary used in the sources and in the main article
:* "Effects on the heart" → "Cardiovascular"; self-references to section title, unnecessarily long, introduction to the vocabulary used in the sources and the main article
:* merge "Somatic and psychological effects" and "Mood and anxiety disorders" → "Psychological"; possible rename, it combines the central points of these two subsections, moved under "Effects"
:* "Health benefits of smoking" → "Benefits"; self-reference, unnecessarily long; inherently non-neutral (negative effects/positive) section title, should be merged into relevant sections (e.g. self treatment for schizophrenics, merged into Psycological).
:The remaining section titles in the article have been renamed to be shorter, however it remains to organize them into something more digestible to the reader. ] (]) 00:35, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

::Ok, the first step is complete, the sections are named according to the central point of their content—so the next step would be to resection according to related topics. After that, looking for the undue weight should not be easier and we can move them to the appropriate articles. We'll look for the omissions and resection to reflect those topics not adequately discussed when the weigh is distributed evenly to the relevant topics.<p>I'm sorry if the last two edits did not appear to be as constructive as the previous edits, layout is extremely difficult in large articles; which is why I left this one alone for so long. ] (]) 00:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

:::Similarities are merged or grouped together to form more consistent sections with a simpler organization style, this makes it more accessible to the reader searching for specific sections of the article, and also furthers the article to be more focused on its topics. The following actions explains the transition from to :
:::* "Consumption" contains the former sections of "Consumption", "Patterns" ("Consumption patterns"), and "Demographics"
:::* "Consumption influences" have been moved below "Consumption"; since immediately following how and who consumes tobacco, a logical progression would be to answer why
:::* "Health effects" remains where it is
:::* "Smoking cessation" and "Tobacco and other drugs" have been merged with "Health effects"
:::* "Social and economic impact" has been dissolved and it's subsections renamed to "Economic" and "Cultural" —thereby increasing the scope of these two subsections
:::* "Economic", "Cultural", and "Religious" (renamed from "Religious views") are subsectioned under "Impact"
:::* "Restrictions" is renamed to "Public policy"
:::* "Age" in "Public policy", which essentially discusses the age bans are merged with "Bans"
:::* "Warnings" is merged with "Advertising" since both convey the central point of restrictions and regulations on communications
:::Away from that, it's becoming clearer now that Health effects needs to be trimmed and moved to its main article ]. However, the extent is certainly subjective. There are two methods of doing this:
::# The first is the minimalist approach (one subsection under "Impact"), which would push to the reader to the main article if they want more on the health effects, this also lets us discuss the topic on its own grounds—and would allow push them, rather forcefully, to view the entire picture.
::# The second would be to have health effects as its own section with a number of subsections. By weight, this is a critical section, as the health effects is the primary motivator for the impacts section and the public policy section, which work towards minimizing the adverse effects (mainly health). One issue though, is this could draw attention away from the main article, which from the available page view statistics are not very good.
:::In either case the section will need to be cut down and the two article synced. No content at this point have been deleted or moved to other articles. Some opinions would be nice—to know that I'm not doing this alone. ] (]) 08:49, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
::::Cleanup has begun for the Health effects section:
::::* The History section has been moved to ].
::::* Indirect effects renamed to Product safety has been moved from ''Health effects of tobacco'' to "Public policy"
::::* "Tobacco and other drugs" renamed to "Social" under "Impact", it discusses how tobacco may be used as a ].
::::* "Smoking cessation" has been exported to the main article, it may be reentered at a later time when the article is more complete and focused
::::* I'm holding off on the remainder of the Health effects section until a more appropriate summery section can be prepared. ] (]) 06:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
:(outdent) The Health effect section has been migrated to the main article ], and a summery section created in its place. The Passive smoking section has not been moved. The next few section will likely be centered at Consumption influences section and the Passive smoking section. A longer summery section should be derived from the lead of ], however that would be difficult to do until the article has completed its copy edit. ] (]) 05:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::Looking for similarities between subsection I've managed to cut it down to a few core topics. It'll be a while before I can summarize and cleanup the prose for easier reading, and a while longer to get a history section in—however the article is taking shape. Other than that, I'm trying something new: there are only two links in the See also, rather than devote an entire section to it, I've dropped the section and added a navigational template to it. In the future an infobox (part of the Series on Smoking) may be more effective, but we aren't there yet. ] (]) 00:53, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
{{Cquote|{{refbegin}}
* Canadian Children's Rights Council
*, by G. L. Apperson, 1914, from ]
* at tobacco.org
* at ]
*
*
*
*
{{refend}}}}
:::History section is effectively complete thanks to the developments in the article ] coupled with the coordination of several other articles. Looking back, one question that remains to me is why the original history section, found in the oldids, were removed. For example, in the July 2006 the article had a fairly lengthy history section, half of it was cited, however as the edits progressed from that point the history section was dissolved. There were attempts to create a ''History of tobacco smoking'' main article, however that was cut short in the April of 2007, when it was converted to a redirect. Conducting a search in the article archives, statements appear to circulate around that concept that the section was abandoned. ] might have some insight, he was around before I was.<p>The current article design appears to be close to completion. All relevant points are given adequate emphasis with a specific focus from which the reader may more readily access the information. The next phase would be to shorten several section using a summery-section design; specifically Psychology, the last two subsection in Impact, and Public policy are in need of this type of action. The two sections: Health effects and Cessation, while being relevant to the subject, are also one of the shortest in the article. These two sections are awaiting a more effective summery section that can be directly derived from the lead of their constituting main article. The External links have been removed as both unnecessary and non-neutral. The items in the References and Further reading should accomplish the task of providing for a route to expand the reader's knowledge. Further reading may receive the same treatment as the External links, however I am leaving it alone. Once the body have been effectively written a new lead can be derived, likely to be five paragraphs (the number of major relevant sections in this article) it may be used as a summery section if we wish to use this in other articles.<p>Article coordination between this article and the ] are of interest. Described in greater detail in ]. Currently I am defining this article as the most common practice of the consuming of tobacco. It does not receive the {{tl|tobacco}} infobox since the agricultural product is only the substance used, the practice, however is perhaps a better context to place it in. ] (]) 06:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
::::The subsection "Cultural" under "Psycology" was moved to ], parts of it were moved to the subsection "Social" under "Impact". A minor migration from the main article ] was moved into a new subsection "Consumption factors", this new subsection was then merged with "Personal relationships" and "Continued consumption". The last paragraph in "Social" was moved under Psychology under a new subsection titled "Gateway drug theory". Restrictions got several cuts as a large amount of content was moved to ], this section still requires cleanup, but it's getting there. See also was removed as a redundancy in the context of the {{tl|Smoking}} infobox. There are a slight reordering of the content, and parse cleanup, but those are insignificant.<p>One of the thoughts that come to mind while looking back is the concept of an "Impact" section. While "Effects" may be clearer, they idea of listing or covering all the ''effects'' of a particular subject may certainly be too much. For example, ] can be tremendous in the context of this article. Instead "Impact" effectively limits the scope of its subsections to: "What are the key points, or where effects have left their mark". ] (]) 22:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::Added "Physiology" subsection under "Consumption", moved "Patterns" to be under "Psychology". The last paragraph in Physiology may warrant a better source, however brining up the rest of the article is more important. "Consumption factors" appears to be reaching a point where an article may be created for it. Patterns may need more content, and Gateway drug theory seems somewhat odd, but relevant. ] (]) 04:57, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Updated "Physiology" to be more descriptive of the receptors and to some degree the effects. All region or country specific was cut in "Demographics". The sixth paragraph in the subsection "Popularization" was cut for irrelevance. "Psychology" was redivided along logical lines. The remaining sections still need to be cleaned up, or rather their main articles need to be cleaned up so a more effective summery section can be derived from the main article's lead. Trying something new in "Gallery". I'm not doing a "See also" since this can easily be accomplished with the Smoking infobox; or a "External links". Therefore "Gallery" appears to be the best candidate for the sister project links. This action is consistent under WP:LAYOUT as guidelines are inherently advisory in nature, and under the WP:MOS stability clause as reasons go beyond a mere choice in style. Going through "Further reading" a number of the links can be either used or cut. Switching the citation style to {{tl|Harvnb}} with {{tl|Citations}}. ] (]) 03:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

== 2009 Copyedit, Prose, and Citation Log ==

Layout and article coordination is effectively complete. The next step would of course be the prose which ties itself in with neutrality and verification. Researched and verified content is not easy to write, it takes thorough reading and careful articulation. Below is the old lead, found in :

{{cquote|
''' Tobacco smoking''' is the inhalation of smoke from burned dried or cured leaves of the ] plant, most often in the form of a ]. People may smoke casually for pleasure, habitually to satisfy an ] to the ] present in tobacco and to the act of smoking, or in response to social pressure. In some societies, people smoke for ritualistic purposes. According to the ] about one-third of the world's male population smokes tobacco.<ref> ''WHO Fact Sheet'' May 28, 2002</ref>

Tobacco use by ] throughout North and South America dates back to 2000 BC. The practice was brought back to Europe by the crew of ]. Tobacco smoking took hold in Spain and then was introduced to the rest of the world by trade. Tobacco is an agricultural product processed from the fresh leaves of plants in the genus ]. Tobacco has been growing on the northern continents since about 6000 BC and began being used by native cultures at about 3000 BC. It has been smoked in one form or another since about 2000 BC. There are pictoral drawings of ancient Mayans smoking crude cigars from 1400 BC. {{Fact|date=November 2008}}

Tobacco smoke contains the psychoactive ]s ] and ], which combined give rise to ] ] and euphoriant properties. The effect of nicotine in first time or irregular users is an increase in ] and memory, and mild ]. Nicotine also disturbs ] and suppresses appetite. This is because nicotine, like many stimulants, temporarily increases blood sugar levels.

Medical research has determined that tobacco smoking causes ], ], and ] among other health problems.<ref></ref><ref></ref>
The ] reported that tobacco smoking killed 100 million people worldwide in the 20th century and warned that it could kill one billion people around the world in the 21st century.<ref> ''Science Daily'' February 8, 2008</ref><ref> ''Australian Broadcasting Corporation'' February 8, 2008</ref>
}} }}
{{archives|bot=Lowercase sigmabot III|age=30}}


== Merger proposal ==
Below are sources that were not used in inline verification:
{{Discussion top|result=To '''not''' merge ] and ], on the grounds that the topics are distinct and worthy of separate discussion. ] (]) 17:39, 21 August 2021 (UTC)}}
<blockquote>
I propose to merge ] into this article. It seems redundant to the topic of this page. ] (]) 01:13, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
{{refbegin}}
* {{cite journal |author=Boffetta P, Agudo A, Ahrens W, ''et al'' |title=Multicenter case-control study of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and lung cancer in Europe |journal=J Natl Cancer Inst. |volume=90 |issue=19 |pages=1440–50 |year=1998 |month=October |pmid=9776409 |url=http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9776409 |doi=10.1093/jnci/90.19.1440}}
* Borio, G., 2006. ''''. Tobacco.org.
* Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). 2004. ''History of the 1964 Surgeon General's Report on Smoking and Health''.
* James I of England. 1604. ''''.
* {{cite journal |title=Smoking and health: physician responsibility. A statement of the Joint Committee on Smoking and Health. American College of Chest Physicians. American Thoracic Society. Asia Pacific Society of Respirology. Canadian Thoracic Society. European Respiratory Society, and International Union Against Tuberculosis and Lung Disease |journal=Chest |volume=108 |issue=4 |pages=1118–21 |year=1995 |month=October |pmid=7555125 |url=http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=7555125 |author=Physicians, American College of Chest; Society, American Thoracic; Respirology, Asia Pacific Society of; Society, Canadian Thoracic; Society, European Respiratory; Disease, International Union Against Tuberculosis and Lung |day=01}}
* {{cite journal |author=Almeida OP, Hulse GK, Lawrence D, Flicker L |title=Smoking as a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease: contrasting evidence from a ] of case-control and cohort studies |journal=Addiction |volume=97 |issue=1 |pages=15–28 |year=2002 |month=January |pmid=11895267 |doi=10.1046/j.1360-0443.2002.00016.x |url=http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/resolve/openurl?genre=article&sid=nlm:pubmed&issn=0965-2140&date=2002&volume=97&issue=1&spage=15}}
* Smoking cessation methods compared ''''. Smokingrelief.co.uk.
* BBC news (2007)
{{refend}}
</blockquote>

Below are sources previous contained in the section "Further reading":
<blockquote>
{{refbegin}}
*{{cite news |author=Canadian Children's Rights Council |title=Ban Smoking In Cars with Children|url=http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/CBC_Ontario_Doctors-Ban_smoking_cars_children_14OCT04.aspx |publisher=Ontario Medical Association}}
*{{cite book |author=Brandt AM |title=The cigarette century: the rise, fall and deadly persistence of the product that defined America |publisher=Basic Books |location=New York |year=2007 |isbn=0-465-07047-7 }}
*{{cite book |author=Gately I |title=La diva nicotina: the story of how tobacco seduced the world |publisher=Simon & Schuster |location=New York |year=2001 |isbn=0-7432-0812-9 }}
*{{cite book |author=David Krough |title=Smoking: The Artificial Passion |publisher=W.H. Freeman & Company |location= |year=1992 |isbn=0-7167-2347-6 }}
*{{cite journal |author=Invernizzi G, Ruprecht A, Mazza R, ''et al'' |title=Particulate matter from tobacco versus diesel car exhaust: an educational perspective |journal=Tob Control |volume=13 |issue=3 |pages=219–21 |year=2004 |month=September |pmid=15333875 |pmc=1747905 |doi=10.1136/tc.2003.005975 }}
*{{cite book |author=Tyrrell IR |title=Deadly enemies: tobacco and its opponents in Australia |publisher=UNSW Press |location=Sydney, Australia |year=1999 |isbn=0-86840-745-3 }}
*{{cite book |author=Burnham JC |title=Bad habits: drinking, smoking, taking drugs, gambling, sexual misbehavior, and swearing in American history |publisher=New York University Press |location=New York |year=1993 |isbn=0-8147-1224-X }}
*{{cite journal |author=Givel MS, Glantz SA |title=Tobacco lobby political influence on US state legislatures in the 1990s |journal=Tob Control |volume=10 |issue=2 |pages=124–34 |year=2001 |month=June |pmid=11387532 |pmc=1747563 |url=http://tc.bmjjournals.com/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=11387532 |doi=10.1136/tc.10.2.124}}
*{{cite book |author=Goodman, Jordan Elliot |title=Tobacco in history: the cultures of dependence |publisher=Routledge |location=New York |year=1993 |isbn=0-415-11669-4 }}
*{{cite book |author=Kluger R |title=Ashes to ashes: America's hundred-year cigarette war, the public health, and the unabashed triumph of Philip Morris |publisher=Alfred A. Knopf |location=New York |year=1996 |isbn=0-394-57076-6 }}
*{{cite book |author=Walker RL |title=Under fire: a history of tobacco smoking in Australia |publisher=Melbourne University Press |location=Carlton, Vic |year=1984 |isbn=0-522-84279-8 }}
*{{cite journal |author=Harley D |title=The beginnings of the tobacco controversy: puritanism, James I, and the royal physicians |journal=Bull Hist Med |volume=67 |issue=1 |pages=28–50 |year=1993 |pmid=8461637 }}
*{{cite journal |author=Hendricks PS, Ditre JW, Drobes DJ, Brandon TH |title=The early time course of smoking withdrawal effects |journal=Psychopharmacology (Berl.) |volume=187 |issue=3 |pages=385–96 |year=2006 |month=August |pmid=16752139 |doi=10.1007/s00213-006-0429-9 }}
*{{cite journal |author=Ness RB, Grisso JA, Hirschinger N, ''et al'' |title=Cocaine and tobacco use and the risk of spontaneous abortion |journal=N Engl J Med. |volume=340 |issue=5 |pages=333–9 |year=1999 |month=February |pmid=9929522 |url=http://content.nejm.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=short&pmid=9929522&promo=ONFLNS19 |doi=10.1056/NEJM199902043400501}}
*{{cite journal |author=Oncken C, Kranzler H, O'Malley P, Gendreau P, Campbell WA |title=The effect of cigarette smoking on fetal heart rate characteristics |journal=Obstet Gynecol |volume=99 |issue=5 Pt 1 |pages=751–5 |year=2002 |month=May |pmid=11978283 |url=http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=11978283 |doi=10.1016/S0029-7844(02)01948-8 |format={{Dead link|date=December 2008}} &ndash; <sup></sup>}}
*{{cite journal |author=Venners SA, Wang X, Chen C, ''et al'' |title=Paternal smoking and pregnancy loss: a prospective study using a biomarker of pregnancy |journal=Am J Epidemiol. |volume=159 |issue=10 |pages=993–1001 |year=2004 |month=May |pmid=15128612 |doi=10.1046/j.1360-0443.2002.00016.x |url=http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=15128612}}
* {{cite news | title=Health : Young smokers' heart attack risk | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3590320.stm | accessdate=December 18, 2005 | publisher=BBC }}
*WHO East Mediterranean Regional Office. ''Islamic ruling on smoking.'' Cairo: WHO East Mediterranean Regional Office, 2003. This publication cites anti-smoking Fatwas.
*{{cite journal |author=Gatrad AR, Sheikh A |title=Medical ethics and Islam: principles and practice |journal=Arch Dis Child. |volume=84 |issue=1 |pages=72–75 |year=2001 |month=January |pmid=11124793 |pmc=1718617 |url=http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=11124793 |doi=10.1136/adc.84.1.72}}
*Ask the Imam. "" accessed July 25, 2006
*{{cite web |author=Jibaly M |url=http://www.qss.org/articles/smoking.html#17 |title=Smoking: A Social Poison |publisher=Detroit: Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah Society of North America |year=1996 |accessdate=July 25, 2006}}<br/>Cites seven different Islamic law opinions.
*Islam Online. "" accessed July 25, 2006 This analysis based primarily on the quoted opinion of Sheikh ].
{{refend}}
</blockquote>

Citations are consistent up until the section "Psychology", which requires a convention to the {{tl|Citation}} template system. The remaining section have yet to receive a new summery section from its associated article, or still requires copyediting. There are several gaps in the citations of the first paragraph in the lead, and the one pertaining to "Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement" appears to be dubious. News sources are often not considered as a reliable source. Direct page numbers would help improve the verification process several citations. ] (]) 10:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

{{Cquote|'''Religious prohibitions'''<br />
'''Bahá'í Faith'''<br />
{{main|Bahá'í laws#Alcohol, drugs and tobacco}}
In the ], smoking is strongly discouraged, but not forbidden.

'''Christianity'''<br />
The majority of Christian denominations do not forbid their members from smoking, but do discourage smoking and support anti-tobacco campaigns on grounds of health. Smoking is forbidden as a matter of doctrine by a few ]s, including the ] and ].

'''Islam'''<br />
In ], the contemporary scholarly view is that any use of tobacco is forbidden ('']'') due to its harmful health effects; the ] forbids Muslims from self-harmful activities.{{cite}} This view is a recent development coinciding with modern medical knowledge. Smoking remains prevalent in Muslim countries, as it has been for centuries.}}


*I disagree. In my mind these are two quite broad topics that are independently notable. I think there is a lot to say independently about the act of smoking vs. the content, distriubution, history, and social and cultural connotations of tobacco smoke. --] (]) 07:02, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Removed from History. Completely unverified (]) and lacking relevance within the History section. These topics do not cover the historical aspects, but the moral. These sections have been deferred to the main article '']'' with a summery section flowing into the "Social" subsection, which is under "Impact".<p>Added ] to "Methods", cleaned pieces of the lead to use a more exact language. Removed the last sentence in the History section. It's been a while, but it's good to be back. ] (]) 00:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
** I agree, the page isn't that big and would fit right in with the rest. Good proposal. It would clean up a bit. ] (]) 14:40, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
* Support merging ] in ], or to delete ]. I have the impression that it was created as a ] to minimize the addictive potential of nicotine, please see concerns expressed at ]. —]] – 01:34, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
* This is already a kind of long article, and I'm not sure that adding to its length by merging in a table of chemical components would improve it. ] (]) 02:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
* I think PaleoNeonate is right that ] was created as a biased fork article to downplay health risks. I've done some editing to counter this, removing content based on 1970s sources. I think there is a difference between tobacco smoke as a topic and tobacco smoking as a topic, so if the other article can focus on what is in the smoke rather than being about smoking then there's a purpose to a separate article. ]<span style="background-color:white; color:#808080;">&amp;</span>] 15:55, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
*:Thanks for working on this, —]] – 12:41, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''. There's much more that can be written about tobacco smoke, including filtration of air contaminated with the smoke (eg - using ]/] filters), remediation of sites, testing for presence of constituent particulates, etc. Even if this article was a POV fork (likely so, given sentence fragments such as "determine the taste and quality of the smoke", though I notice user Fences and Windows has already removed some questionable material), there's likely sufficient material and reliable sources to transform it into a comprehensive article in its own right. ]] 23:54, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' per Mindmatrix. ] (]) 04:50, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}


== Illustration of Tobacco Use by substitution of photograph of Jean Jacques Susini ==
== Prompt for anti-smoking groups in 1920s ==


Jean Jacques Susini (' a French political figure, militant and co-founder of the Organisation armée secrète (OAS), a paramilitary organization opposing Algerian independence from France' (https://en.wikipedia.org/Jean-Jacques_Susini) was an ultra-colonialist, Fascist murderer and founder of the OAS, 'meaning Secret Armed Organisation) ..... a far-right French dissident paramilitary organisation during the Algerian War. The OAS carried out terrorist attacks, including bombings and assassinations, in an attempt to prevent Algeria's independence from French colonial rule. Its motto was L’Algérie est française et le restera ("Algeria is French and will remain so").(https://en.wikipedia.org/Organisation_arm%C3%A9e_secr%C3%A8te ).
I changed "With the industrialization of production and increased life expectancies in the late 1920s prompted anti-smoking groups to advocacate against its usage", which is not a proper sentence, to "The industrialization of production and increased life expectancies in the late 1920s prompted anti-smoking groups to advocacate against its usage", which is at least grammatically correct but I'm not convinced I got across the meaning the sentence is meant to convey. I admit I'm not sure exactly what this sentence is trying to say, can someone knowledgable clarify this? ] (]) 13:02, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


The article under discussion here attempts to be a sober chronicle of the history of Tobacco Smoking: the illustration of Susini (taken from his Misplaced Pages page) has nothing to do with this discussion: it is an attempt to infiltrate far-right propaganda onto Misplaced Pages and should be removed at once.
:Changed it to "The industrialization of tobacco production compounded with increased health awareness during the late 1920s prompted a strong anti-smoking political agenda." This probably better fits what I was trying to convey when I first wrote the lead. The political agenda, of course, refers to the sentence immediately following the one discussed. ] (]) 00:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


] (]) 17:20, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
== Minor edits that I can't make ==
:That is all irrelevant. This article is on tobacco smoking, and that is what he is doing in this photo. --] (]) 04:08, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
::{{replyto|Paxton Quigley}} It's completely relevant, particularly as this IP user is a block-evading extreme right-wing vandal. I've removed the image. ''']'''] 07:32, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


== Smoking ==
There's a link to "Preacher" that needs to be changed to "Preacher (comics)". Since this article is protected against anonymous edits, someone else will have to do it. ] (]) 22:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


What are the causes of smoking? ] (]) 13:45, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Also, the following line needs to be re-written:


==Ingesting?==
"Similarly, cigarette smoking activity has been shown to follow distinct circadian patterns during the waking day, with the high point usually occurring shortly after waking in the morning or going to sleep at night."
First sentence: "Tobacco smoking is the practice of burning tobacco and ingesting the resulting smoke" - ingesting is odd and implies smoke goes down the gastrointestinal tract. But I don't know a better word for absorbing through the oral mucosa and/or the lungs. ] (]) 10:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
:A good point. I've also failed to come up with a more suitable word. We could turn to a phrase, like (e.g.) "Tobacco smoking is the practice of burning tobacco and processing the resulting smoke via or in the mouth", but it will be a struggle to compete with the conciseness of the current form. ] (]) 16:58, 12 January 2024 (UTC)


== Who am I ==
While technically correct, this sentence (on first reading) seems to suggest that people smoke quite a lot after going to sleep at night...maybe change it to "or shortly before going to sleep at night." <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


poopopopo ] (]) 22:25, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}} Thanks. Sorry I couldn't fix this earlier, I was on break and despite this article being highly visible, it doesn't receive that much editor traffic. ] (]) 00:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:25, 11 December 2024

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Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
To not merge Tobacco smoke and Tobacco smoking, on the grounds that the topics are distinct and worthy of separate discussion. Klbrain (talk) 17:39, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

I propose to merge tobacco smoke into this article. It seems redundant to the topic of this page. 150.250.5.26 (talk) 01:13, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

  • I disagree. In my mind these are two quite broad topics that are independently notable. I think there is a lot to say independently about the act of smoking vs. the content, distriubution, history, and social and cultural connotations of tobacco smoke. --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:02, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Support merging Tobacco smoke in Tobacco smoking, or to delete Tobacco smoke. I have the impression that it was created as a WP:POVFORK to minimize the addictive potential of nicotine, please see concerns expressed at the talk page. —PaleoNeonate – 01:34, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
  • This is already a kind of long article, and I'm not sure that adding to its length by merging in a table of chemical components would improve it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
  • I think PaleoNeonate is right that Tobacco smoke was created as a biased fork article to downplay health risks. I've done some editing to counter this, removing content based on 1970s sources. I think there is a difference between tobacco smoke as a topic and tobacco smoking as a topic, so if the other article can focus on what is in the smoke rather than being about smoking then there's a purpose to a separate article. Fences&Windows 15:55, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
    Thanks for working on this, —PaleoNeonate – 12:41, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. There's much more that can be written about tobacco smoke, including filtration of air contaminated with the smoke (eg - using HEPA/ULPA filters), remediation of sites, testing for presence of constituent particulates, etc. Even if this article was a POV fork (likely so, given sentence fragments such as "determine the taste and quality of the smoke", though I notice user Fences and Windows has already removed some questionable material), there's likely sufficient material and reliable sources to transform it into a comprehensive article in its own right. Mindmatrix 23:54, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Mindmatrix. Jusdafax (talk) 04:50, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Illustration of Tobacco Use by substitution of photograph of Jean Jacques Susini

Jean Jacques Susini (' a French political figure, militant and co-founder of the Organisation armée secrète (OAS), a paramilitary organization opposing Algerian independence from France' (https://en.wikipedia.org/Jean-Jacques_Susini) was an ultra-colonialist, Fascist murderer and founder of the OAS, 'meaning Secret Armed Organisation) ..... a far-right French dissident paramilitary organisation during the Algerian War. The OAS carried out terrorist attacks, including bombings and assassinations, in an attempt to prevent Algeria's independence from French colonial rule. Its motto was L’Algérie est française et le restera ("Algeria is French and will remain so").(https://en.wikipedia.org/Organisation_arm%C3%A9e_secr%C3%A8te ).

The article under discussion here attempts to be a sober chronicle of the history of Tobacco Smoking: the illustration of Susini (taken from his Misplaced Pages page) has nothing to do with this discussion: it is an attempt to infiltrate far-right propaganda onto Misplaced Pages and should be removed at once.

Paxton Quigley (talk) 17:20, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

That is all irrelevant. This article is on tobacco smoking, and that is what he is doing in this photo. --2001:8003:DDB1:C600:390F:5103:7184:18C (talk) 04:08, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
@Paxton Quigley: It's completely relevant, particularly as this IP user is a block-evading extreme right-wing vandal. I've removed the image. Graham87 07:32, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Smoking

What are the causes of smoking? 2001:4450:4647:1D00:8939:49B6:5989:A6DE (talk) 13:45, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Ingesting?

First sentence: "Tobacco smoking is the practice of burning tobacco and ingesting the resulting smoke" - ingesting is odd and implies smoke goes down the gastrointestinal tract. But I don't know a better word for absorbing through the oral mucosa and/or the lungs. CyreJ (talk) 10:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

A good point. I've also failed to come up with a more suitable word. We could turn to a phrase, like (e.g.) "Tobacco smoking is the practice of burning tobacco and processing the resulting smoke via or in the mouth", but it will be a struggle to compete with the conciseness of the current form. AlexGallon (talk) 16:58, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Who am I

poopopopo 2607:FEA8:2AE7:1700:B10C:C0BB:ED6E:13F8 (talk) 22:25, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

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