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Revision as of 21:55, 28 November 2005 editRossami (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users25,096 edits →Judeofascism (term)← Previous edit Latest revision as of 12:53, 13 December 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,294,815 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Misplaced Pages talk:Deletion review/Archives/2024/June) (bot 
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== Natural history - partially deleted category tree ==
== Votes ==
I think somewhere at the top of the page we should describe standardized wording for votes, particularly given that the rather contradictory verbs '''endorse''' (the deletion) and '''oppose''' (the undeletion request) amount to the same thing. Perhaps stick with, '''undelete''' and '''keep deleted.''' ] 14:30, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
:There is already a yellow box describing precisely that. In the change to Deletion review, the notion of reviewing a not-delete debate was introduced, and the old wording doesn't really fit that. -]<small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:42, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
::Ah yes. To qualify then, we should follow the wording as presented. (And perhaps we should tidy the top of the page). ] 04:50, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


Not sure where to ask about these two:
== Archived to history ==
(i.e. deleted)<br/>
If I trimmed any current threads, a firm spanking is always welcome. - ]]] 06:12, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


* ] - result was delete
== Judeofascism (term) ==


* ] - result was no consensus
I created this section following the instructions of ] who wrote:


As a result the category tree is partially deleted and partially extant. Would it be possible to revert the first deletion (as mentioned would be appropriate by a couple people in the second discussion)? I will note that the second nomination got more attention, I think because it included lower-level subcategories that get more "circulation".
:"Any argument for undeletion, or for a new article by this name, would not depend on the contents of the article, but on establishing, by fresh evidence, that the term itself was notable. Go, construct a case on the talk page - if you can make one (which I doubt) ''then'' request undeletion. The issue in question is not the article's content, but whether this term merits an article.--] ]"


] (]) 23:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
====How this issue came up====


== Neha Harsora ==
For a short time, there existed an article ] ]. It seems to have quietly existed as a redirect for some months, but within a day of having content added to it the page was nominated for AfD and a week later it was gone. I have no idea what the content was, but have no reason to doubt it was an Unencyclopedic slur.


Hi, I would like to contest the deletion of the article of this actress, but since it was deleted under G5 there was no consensus, hence where can I do it? ] (]) 04:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
More recently, an article ] was created by editors who believe that ] should be deleted (an opinion I do not share). The new article lasted less than two days. ]
:This is the wrong place to contest a deletion. If you go to ], you will see a box telling you to "please first contact the user(s) who performed the action(s) listed below", that is to say, {{user|Explicit}}. --] &#x1f339; (]) 08:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
My involvement in this second article consisted of two edits: the first was to revert someone's redirect where I commented: "If you think its nonsense, put it up for AfD, don't unilaterally redirect" and the second was to nominate it for AfD myself ] with the comment "Rv redirect, & nominate for AfD-this article deserves an up or down vote, plze stop redirecting."


== I want my article back ==
At that time I was unaware of the previous existence of ].


The article I wrote was deleted around 2 years ago because 6 months passed without activity and now they wont undelete it because they think there's a conflict of interest. I am writing an article for Dr. Zouhair Amarin because I was his student. There is no conflict of interest as we are not colleagues, friends or family. I have maintained a neutral tone throughout the article. ] (]) 15:38, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
My nomination lasted approximately seven ''minutes'' before a speedy deletion by ].]
:{{replyto|Zamarin}} This is not the place to make such a request. The notice at ] directs you as follows:
::If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available ].
:You need to follow that last link and do what it says. --] &#x1f339; (]) 21:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
::@] The user already requested undeletion, which was declined, multiple times ] 22:19, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Twice, actually - once at 14:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC) and declined at 15:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC), i.e. before posting here; the second was at 16:00, 16 August 2024 (UTC) and declined at 16:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC), i.e. afterward. --] &#x1f339; (]) 07:56, 17 August 2024 (UTC)


== Status update of DRV still ongoing beyond 7 days ==
In my AfD nomination I wrote:


Page ] was submitted for DRV on 26 Aug, now on the 9th the article message says review is still underway. Can someone tell me the status of it and what stages it awaits? ] (]) 00:43, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
::I believe this article deserves an up or down vote and a chance to be sourced & NPOV'd.
:The reason this debate is still open is a large number of our DRV regular closers got involved in the debate itself, in my case due to sub-optimal behaviour that was leading to disruption of the discussion. Having been involved in the process like that, I am reticent to close it per a broad interpretation of ], and I imagine a number of my peers are the same. It will be closed in due course. ] (]) 22:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)


== Pawn (scripting language) ==
::Nominator votes '''Weak keep'''. Article obviously needs improvement, but just cancelling without a vote or chance to improve it seems too much like censoring an unpopular POV.


: I plan to improve and expand the ] article to meet the required criteria.
: I intend to move ] to the mainspace and will strive to improve its quality. I would also like to highlight that on the page ]), there was a fairly supportive discussion about the topic's eligibility for a main article.
: I hope to gain support from the Misplaced Pages community to develop this article into a comprehensive source of information on the Pawn programming language.


] (]) 01:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
I stand by the above comment, and although I don't care very much whether there is ever an article titled ]. I '''DO''' care about due WP process and that there should be even-handed treatment of controversial subjects.

So lets turn to the substance of the issue:

====Is ] identical to ]====

Less than a week ago, ] wrote on what was then the ] talk page the following:

::I'm going to move this to Islamofascism (term) to hammer home that this page is about the WORD Islamofascism, and not whether the word actually refers to anything, because it's not our job to decide that. (And if it does refer to anything real, it has nothing to do with Hitler!)

I thought that was a good idea. I also believe its an argument for treating an AfD on ] separately from the old AfD on ].

====Is "Judeofascism" (the term) widely enough used to warrant an article====

Well, that's something honest people of good will could disagree about, but at the moment there is no forum for that discussion. My contribution to this debate follows:

1. ] provided one list of citations:

2. If, as I believe, Judeofascism = "Jewish Fascism" the list of citations is much larger, for example:

2(a). List of 34 books Googlebooks returns when searching for "Jewish Fascism"

2(b). Excerpts from NYT articles using the term "Jewish Fascism"

2(b)(1) "The Revolt Of Israel's Center", The New York Times July 13, 2005, by THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

:"What is playing out in Israel today is a huge drama in which this resurgent Israeli center, having awakened to just what a danger the extremist settlers pose for Israel's future, is finally confronting them. And the settlers, like long-indulged children who are finally being spanked, are becoming unhinged. This is a dangerous time because the settlers, who do not really respect the authority of the Israeli state, will try anything.

:"When I was in Israel two weeks ago, a group of teenage settlers, inspired by a witches' brew of Jewish fascism and messianism, took over an abandoned Arab home next to Gush Katif and scrawled on the side in Hebrew: ''Muhammad Is a Pig.'' When the Palestinians next door saw it, they began stoning the house. Some settler boys got hold of a Palestinian teenager and started pounding him with rocks, an act the Israeli Army described as an attempted ''lynching.'' The boy was saved by an Israeli soldier and a journalist who dragged him behind a wall.""

2(b)(2) NYT Book Review, November 27, 1991, by HERBERT MITGANG of the book
''Benevolence and Betrayal Five Italian Jewish Families Under Fascism''
By Alexander Stille


:""While I was researching the book," Mr. Stille reveals, "several Italian Jews tried to dissuade me from writing about the phenomenon of Jewish Fascism, out of a fear of stirring renewed anti-Semitism." Fortunately, he disagreed, deciding that their behavior during the Fascist era ran the full gamut from the foolish and contemptible to the wise and heroic. The result is "Benevolence and Betrayal," an achievement that deserves to stand next to the most insightful fiction about life and death under Fascism."

2(b)(2) NYT, December 14, 1986 SCHOLARS PRAISE ITALY'S ROLE IN HELPING JEWS IN WORLD WAR II BYLINE: By JOSEPH BERGER

:"Though in retrospect it may seem puzzling, large numbers of Jews sympathized with the Fascist party in its early days just as did most middle-class Italians who were inspired by Mussolini's imperial dreams.

:A Parisian writer, Alain Elkann, told the conference that a novel he has written on a Jewish Fascist was partially based on a distant uncle who supported Mussolini until the dictator's death. Even in the period of the anti-Jewish laws, Mr. Elkann said, the uncle believed that Mussolini, for pragmatic reasons, was being cooperative with Hitler and that at the end of the war he would restore Jewish rights."

2(b)(3) NYT, August 14, 1984 KAHANE IN ISRAELI PARLIAMENT AFTER DISPUTE OVER THE OATH, By JAMES FERON

:"Outside the Parliament building, groups that do not normally become involved in politics as well as Israelis who have protested in the past against the occupation of the West Bank and the war in Lebanon joined in the protest demonstration. Most said they were frightened by the support that enabled Rabbi Kahane to be elected to Parliament. He received 26,000 votes.

:"Shevah Weiss, a member of the Labor Alignment, said before the parliamentary ceremony began: ''This is my personal demonstration against Jewish fascism. I'm afraid Kahane is a symptom of a not-so-narrow phenomenon in Israeli society.''

:"Standing to next him, Gideon Spiro, a former paratrooper, said: ''Kahane did not just come from the sky. He says brutally what a lot of Israelis say quietly. He's a fruit of the occupation.''"

3. Use of the term by Russian political figure ]

:"Following this, at a November 7 Communist Rally, Zyuganov shared a platform with several party members who vowed to defend Makashov. And the major Communist daily newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya published an article by its Editor in Chief on November 10 attacking "the loathsome doctrine of ‘Jewish fascism’" which is being created by a "handful of oligarchic mass media." Russian liberals, with several Jewish figures given as examples, were accused of "a dreadful genocide launched against the Russians which makes the Holocaust and the gas chambers seem pale by comparison." And on November 11, the Communists sent a letter to the government demanding oversight committees to regulate the media which reflect "Russian society in demographic, ethnic, political and other terms," and "pro-Israel interpretation." Thirteen Deputies signed a letter calling Makashov a "patriot" and claiming that Jewish bankers and politicians were humiliating Russians. "

4. Use of the term by Israeli Arab Knesset member Ahmad Taibi

:Speaking of "Uzi Cohen, a member of Ariel Sharon's right-wing party and a deputy mayor of the town of Raanana" the article reports:

:"Cohen's racist ideas have drawn strong reactions from Palestinian leaders in Israel. Israeli Arab Knesset member Ahmad Taibi described Cohen as representing "Israel's ugly face".

:"This man espouses Jewish fascism and he is trying to foster his venomous ideas, and I must say he is achieving remarkable success," Taibi told Aljazeera.net.

:"The idea of ethnic cleansing is no longer confined to the far-right parties in Israel; many in the Likud support ethnic cleansing.""
:: ''unsigned comment by ]''

This is a well-written synopsis but I'm not sure why you posted it here instead of on the ] where the actual discussion is taking place. I see ]'s comment but I believe he/she was referring to the Talk page of ] (or perhaps ]) and that, given how much the related discussion further down the page has grown, that it may no longer be the best recommendation. I'd recommend incorporating your comments in the existing discussion.

For the most part, the Discussion page is reserved for comments on the workings or failings of the Deletion Review process generally, not for discussion of specific cases. Comments left here are likely to be overlooked or ignored. ] ] 21:55, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:53, 13 December 2024

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Natural history - partially deleted category tree

Not sure where to ask about these two:

As a result the category tree is partially deleted and partially extant. Would it be possible to revert the first deletion (as mentioned would be appropriate by a couple people in the second discussion)? I will note that the second nomination got more attention, I think because it included lower-level subcategories that get more "circulation".

jengod (talk) 23:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Neha Harsora

Hi, I would like to contest the deletion of the article of this actress, but since it was deleted under G5 there was no consensus, hence where can I do it? 202.41.10.107 (talk) 04:44, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

This is the wrong place to contest a deletion. If you go to Neha Harsora, you will see a box telling you to "please first contact the user(s) who performed the action(s) listed below", that is to say, Explicit (talk · contribs). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I want my article back

The article I wrote was deleted around 2 years ago because 6 months passed without activity and now they wont undelete it because they think there's a conflict of interest. I am writing an article for Dr. Zouhair Amarin because I was his student. There is no conflict of interest as we are not colleagues, friends or family. I have maintained a neutral tone throughout the article. Zamarin (talk) 15:38, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Zamarin: This is not the place to make such a request. The notice at User talk:Zamarin#Concern regarding Draft:Zouhair Amarin directs you as follows:
If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available here.
You need to follow that last link and do what it says. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
@Redrose64 The user already requested undeletion, which was declined, multiple times Mach61 22:19, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
Twice, actually - once at 14:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC) and declined at 15:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC), i.e. before posting here; the second was at 16:00, 16 August 2024 (UTC) and declined at 16:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC), i.e. afterward. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:56, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Status update of DRV still ongoing beyond 7 days

Page The Peel Club was submitted for DRV on 26 Aug, now on the 9th the article message says review is still underway. Can someone tell me the status of it and what stages it awaits? Hellenistic accountant (talk) 00:43, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The reason this debate is still open is a large number of our DRV regular closers got involved in the debate itself, in my case due to sub-optimal behaviour that was leading to disruption of the discussion. Having been involved in the process like that, I am reticent to close it per a broad interpretation of WP:INVOLVED, and I imagine a number of my peers are the same. It will be closed in due course. Daniel (talk) 22:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Pawn (scripting language)

I plan to improve and expand the Pawn (scripting language) article to meet the required criteria.
I intend to move the Pawn (programming language) draft to the mainspace and will strive to improve its quality. I would also like to highlight that on the page Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Pawn (scripting language), there was a fairly supportive discussion about the topic's eligibility for a main article.
I hope to gain support from the Misplaced Pages community to develop this article into a comprehensive source of information on the Pawn programming language.

Putu Suhartawan (talk) 01:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)