Misplaced Pages

User talk:Ched/Archive 20: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< User talk:Ched Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 13:58, 12 August 2009 editBrandonYusufToropov (talk | contribs)7,035 edits →Thanks for your note, Ched: Ched← Previous edit Latest revision as of 10:53, 8 March 2023 edit undoMalnadachBot (talk | contribs)11,637,095 editsm Fixed Lint errors. (Task 12)Tag: AWB 
Line 1: Line 1:
{{talk archive navigation}}
{{administrator}}
This page is where I exchange comments with friends and other editors. All users are welcome to leave a message. Unless you state otherwise, I'll assume we are (or can be) friends. Feel free to leave any notes, suggestions, complaints, or anything else. I respond to almost anything reasonable, (but I'll only respond to vandalism or stupidity if it's funny).
{{User talk:Ched_Davis/header}}


; All history of my talk page from 2008 through 2011 are located on this page. This IS an archive though, so please direct any CURRENT thoughts to my CURRENT TALK PAGE ]. Thank you.
{{usercomment}}


;: Talk archives from July 2011 through January 5, 2012
{{archive box collapsible|box-width=238px|
], Nov. 14 2008 - Jan. 23, 2009 <br />
], > Feb. 22, 2009 <br />
], > Feb 28 <br />
], > March 2009 <br />
], > April 2009 <br />
], > May 2009 <br />
], > June 2009 ~ (])<br />
], > July 2009 <br />
], > August 2009 <br />
] <br />
] <br />
] <br />
]}}


== Award ==


{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
== July 2009 Posts ==
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]

|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Order of The King'''

== NODRAMA Barnstar ==
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Anti-Drama Barnstar'''
|- |-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you for participating in ], avoiding drama for a full 5 days!--<span style="font-family:Arial"><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub></span> 04:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC) |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I hereby award you this award,<br>for your consistently taking The High Road. :)<br> ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 08:44, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
|} |}


* WOW .. holy bazoinkers Batman. I don't know if I have ''EVER'' seen you give such a thing Bugs. Thank you ... I am totally at a loss for words here. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
== Thanks ==
Thank you for your suport Ched, i'll be working hard.* Delete ]. .] (] • ]) 17:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Jajajaj, do you think makeing a Simmons family artical could be good =).] (] • ]) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


An artical from the simmons family (Yes Gene Simmons) like the jacksons family do you think it's a good idea .] (] • ]) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


== Crat bar ==
Thank a lot Ched your a great guy. and i'm not that big of a kiss fan but i like some songs and the show..] (] • ]) 17:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


I thought I'd ask if you would like to comment on ] about the crat threshold as you seemed interested in the related dicussions a short while ago. Best regards. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 20:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
== Barnstar ==
]


:commented there. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
=) ] <sup>(] • ])</sup> 01:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::Hi Ched. We've moved our discussion regarding the bureaucrat threshold to ] and I thought you might like to comment on it. Thanks. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 07:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


:Awww Man, I don't know what to say TO. That is one of the nicest, coolest things I have ever seen. Thank you. I am truly honored and humbled by this. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 01:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC) ::: Hi Hydro, Looks good at first glance. I'll check it out in more detail this evening. Cheers. Ched (east coast USA) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
The RfC has gone live ]. - ''''']''''' (]•]•<span class="plainlinks"></span>) 02:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
::Nah, don't be. You deserved it. I especially appreciated your exceptional copy-edit today. ] <sup>(] • ])</sup> 02:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::That's the coolest barnstar I've yet seen :D <span style="white-space:nowrap">— ] <small>(] • ] • ])</small></span> 03:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::That's the coolest barnstar that I've ever seen too! '''<font color="#000000">]</font><font color="#FFCC00">]</font>''' 03:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::Yea, I gotta admit, I'm pretty flabergasted here. It does make being here very rewarding, to say the least. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::::::What did you think it was initially, judging from the thumbnail and the heading of my post? ] <sup>(] • ])</sup> 16:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::::I wasn't sure, and clicked on the pic right away - then I just sat there stunned. Just totally amazed me. ;-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 19:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


== Digs ==


Hi. I didn't perceive any digs directed towards me. That said, the way you phrased your comment implied that bureaucrats would misuse the -sysop bit as a quasi-political tool. As that doesn't advance discussion of why or how emergency desysops should take place, I felt obliged to call you out on that. ]<sup>(] - ])</sup> 07:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
== Ched, you deserve this ==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Helping Hand Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | put your citation here ] (]) 20:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
|}


: AHHH .. OK. And I didn't mean a dig at the 'crats' either. My thinking is this. The crats are "local", and edit or are active here on EN, so they are going to be familiar with many of the Admins. I think that familiarity leads people (even if unconsciously) to develop either a like or dislike (or perhaps mistrust is a better word) of some admins. I think that subconscious "knowing" of an admin. could all to easily play a role in the decision making process of whether or not an admin's actions were causing an "emergency". I just haven't ''seen'' many (perhaps one very questionable situation a few months back which arbcom handled involving some questionable mental stability issues) "emergencies" here on WP. I'll try to explain there as well. Thanks for letting me know that what I posted could be taken that way. It's late here, and perhaps I'm not expressing myself well at the moment due to fatigue. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 07:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Hope you like it. ] (] • ]) 16:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


== Closing ==


Re: . Thank you. ]&nbsp;<span style="font-weight:bold;">&middot;</span>&#32;(]) 08:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:Why thank you Pedro, I really appreciate that. I'm always glad to help out where I can. Hope the article is going well, the last time I looked it had come a long way. I'll have to stop by and check it out again huh? Yep, I really like the Star, thanks buddy. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
::Keep up the good work Chedsky. You're doing a great job. ] (]) 03:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Eh, I'd be happier with a few more blocks. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 03:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


::: Well, I guess I could go get a 6-pack, drink that, and then block anyone who edits my friend's articles. :-O — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC) :No problem. Seemed to be stuck in one of those dreaded programming loops. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
::To say the least. Just a pity it wasn't closed sooner, tis one of the reasons I avoid ANI, it's easily one of the most toxic areas of the encyclopedia, everything seems worse there and if blocks aren't handed out within the first hour or so, threads almost always degenerate. I'm glad someone stepped up and shut it down :) ]&nbsp;<span style="font-weight:bold;">&middot;</span>&#32;(]) 09:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: Lightweight. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 21:52, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


== ANI closure ==
== ] Invite ==


Hi Ched!
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|]
|align="center"|Hello {{BASEPAGENAME}}. You have been invited to join ''']''', a ] dedicated to improving the ]-related articles on Misplaced Pages. You received this invitation due to your interest in, or edits relating to or within the scope of the project. If you would like to join or just help out a bit, please visit the ], and add your name to the ]. You may also wish to add ''' {{tl|User WikiProject Software}} to ]''' and ''' == ] Centralized Announcement System =='''


While I registered some disagreement at the ANI, I permit myself here to thank you very sincerely for closing it.
'''{{tlu|Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Software/Announcement-u}}'''


You may wish to include some of the tail subtopics in your closed record.
'''to the ''top'' of ].'''


Sincerely, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 08:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
If you know someone who might be interested, please pass this message onto others by pasting this code into their talk page:


:Hi HW, it seemed that userbox and ''its'' braces were messing with my placement of "discussion close" ending. Best of luck in other venues with this, but perhaps it would be easier and best for all involved to just ]. Not saying you have to, just a suggestion is all. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
<nowiki>== ] Invite ==


::I have no plans to continue such exchanges, but as you wrote while you closed, Worm plans to write an RfC. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 09:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
{{</nowiki>]<nowiki>|~~~~</nowiki>}}


==DYK for Nels Running==
Thanks,<br />
{{tmbox
<font face="Georgia">]</font>&nbsp;&nbsp;(]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]) 22:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
|style = notice
|}
|small =
|image = ]
|text = On ], ''']''' was updated with a fact from the article ''''']''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that US Air Force Major General ''']''', a recipient of seven ], had never boarded an airplane until he left his home town to attend the ]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at ].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Nels Running|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at ].}} }}You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>(], )</small> and add it to ] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the ].
}} ] (] '''·''' ]) 08:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


== Ched let me ask oyu something == == RfA Reform update ==


Hi. It's been a little while since the last message on RfA reform, and there's been a fair amount of slow but steady ]. However, there is currently a flurry of activity due to some conversations on .
Ched if an artical about an album that has not been realesed yet but is in progress and has confirmed songs, dose it not deserve an artical. --] (]) 02:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
:Who confirmed the songs? Is there significant coverage about the upcoming album, or is it just a single article? ] summarizes notability guidelines. Specifically, what album, I can go check it out. ] <sup>(] • ])</sup> 03:03, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


I think we're very close to putting an idea or two forward before the community and there are at least two newer ones in the pipeline. So if you have a moment:
: (ec) Normally I would say no, but there are times when it can work. If you read through:
*Have a look at ] and familiarise yourself with the statistics, I'd appreciate comment on ].
:*]
*Any final comments would be appreciated on the ] proposal.
:it will give you a rough idea. Then take a look at:
*Feedback on the two newer proposals - ] & ]. Both are more radical reforms of RfA and might run along side the current system.
:*]
:which is part of the ] guideline - it will give you a good idea.


Thanks for reading and for any comments that you've now made.
:Basically, it can work ... but only if there are multiple ] that are reporting it. If you're not sure, you can create the article in a sandbox, and work on it until it meets the guidelines - then move it to main space afterwards. If you need a hand creating a sandbox, just let me know what you want to call it, and I'll walk you through that. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


<small>Delivered by ] on behalf of ] at 21:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC).</small>
::I'm sure TechOutsider would be willing to help as well - he's more likely up on the current music than I am, and he knows how to create sandbox articles too. He's done a ton of work on the Michael Jackson stuff, so he probably has a better idea on what will and won't be accepted. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:08, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
<!-- Delivery requested by ] and approved by ]. -->


== I've got mail ==
:Thanks Ched sorry for the trobule. --] (]) 03:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


::Thanks a lot Ched. --] (]) 03:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC) Hey Ched--did you email me a URL? I want to make sure it's actually from you before I click on it. Thanks, ] (]) 14:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


:NO ... DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK. I got several emails this morning from folks and made the mistake of clicking on one of the links .. must have spammed my contact list. Very sorry folks ... running scans now. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:::], and the album ].
::Thanks. Good luck cleaning up that mess...and BTW, that was a marvelous collection of goat porn! ] (]) 14:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
::::Looks like TO is helping handle this one, drop me a note if you need anything. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 19:19, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


:::Can't say I know much about the goats, ... but I think I figured out where it started. Was a Facebook friend rather than a WP one .. sigh .. oh well. Thanks for the info. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Ched thanks for telling me about TO, he really helped me there, thanks. =D. --] (]) 20:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


::::Did someone say goat porn? By chance, I've just started an article on that subject and could use some references. Please forward to my P.O. Box, ASAP. ]<small>]</small> 15:17, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::And if your not to busy could you check out the Simmons family artical, --] (]) 20:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
:Ched, get active on wiki again like before. We need more than goat porn.] ] 20:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


:::::: Yep, TO is one of the good guys. Just remember, if he ever starts training for "admin", and goes to RfA - you have to support him ... lol. Anyway, I looked real quick now - I can see a few things that might help. I don't have time right this moment to do anything, but I'll try to help later tonight or tomorrow sometime. Do you want me to "fix" ... or just comment on the talk page? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC) ::Should be back on a more regular basis the middle of next week. Wanna get some work into Noel's article. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:::Glad to hear you're just on a break/busy. I almost forgot about Noel, but I'll do what I can to help. ] ] 21:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
==You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting==
{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"|]
|-
|
, the newest ], is holding its Annual Membership Meeting at 1pm on Saturday, October 1, 2011 at the .
]


Agenda items include:
::::::: Comment, but if you want you can fix it if you want to, but take your time i now you must be busy, P.S dont worry i'll support TO if he decides to run for '''admin''' LOL =D. --] (]) 22:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
* election of the Board of Directors for the next two years
:::::::: Well, about adminship, I don't think I have time for those maintenance tasks. I don't know Wiki-syntax that well, I don't know any kind of web-syntax that well, I don't know how to handle bots, most of my opinions at pretty much anything are pile-ons, etc. Hardly a good admin candidate. My goals have changed now. ] <sup>(] • ])</sup> 01:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
* approval of a budget for the 2011-2012 fiscal year
* report on the activities and accomplishments of the past year
* social gathering afterwards at a nearby restaurant


Candidate nominations are open until 11:59pm EDT on Saturday, September 24. We encourage you to consider being a candidate. (see )
::::::::: It is rather an acquired taste, and not for everybody. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


The meeting is open to both the general public and members from within the DC-MD-VA-WV-DE region and beyond. We encourage everyone to attend!
== August Posts ==


You may join the chapter at the meeting or .
== A first ==
|}


----
If I had a nickel for every time someone's bowel movements were mentioned in ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 05:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
<small>Note: <small>You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list ]. -- Message delivered by ], on behalf of ]</small></small>
</div>


== News and progress from RfA reform 2011 ==
:lmFao ... point taken. ... ahhhh ... I got nothin ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 06:10, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::If you would have done an edit summary like that in your first week, you probably would have been promoted to Arbcom. Keep up the good work and please, continue with the mantra that "No matter what you do, incorporate Number Two." ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 06:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
==Civility discussion==
I would very much appreciate your thoughts and considerations on ] especially the sections from Safe Harbor down.--] (]) 13:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


{{collapsetop|bg=#33FFCC|RfA reform: ...and what you can do now.}}
:I promise, I'll take a look here in the next day or two. I'm just not feeling particularly "civil" at the moment, so I'll hold my thoughts til I can be. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 16:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
<small>(You are receiving this message because you are either a task force member, or you have contributed to recent discussions on any of ].)</small>


'''The number of nominations''' continues to nosedive seriously, according to ]. We know why this is, and if the trend continues our reserve of active admins will soon be underwater. Misplaced Pages now needs suitable editors to come forward. This can only be achieved either through ] to the current system, a ], or by ].
== TB ==


'''A lot of work''' is constantly being done behind the scenes by the coordinators and task force members, such as monitoring the talk pages, discussing new ideas, organising the project pages, researching statistics and keeping them up to date. You'll also see for example that we have recently made tables to compare how other Wikipedias choose their sysops, and some tools have been developed to more closely examine !voters' habits.
{{talkback|Misplaced Pages talk:Canvassing}}


'''The purpose of ]''' is to focus attention on ''specific'' issues of our admin selection process and to develop RfC proposals for solutions to improve them. For this, we have organised the project into ] each with their own discussion pages. It is important to understand that all Misplaced Pages policy changes take a long time to implement whether or not the discussions appear to be active - getting the proposals right ''before'' offering them for discussion by the broader community is crucial to the success of any RfC. Consider keeping the pages and their talk pages on your ]; ''do'' check out older threads before starting a new one on topics that have been discussed already, and if you start a new thread, ''please'' revisit it regularly to follow up on new comments.
== re ==
whatever. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 16:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:? ] (]) 18:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::Nothing that you're familiar with CoM. Something has got my shorts in a knot, and it's best that I don't speak about the matter until my emotions have dissipated. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Really? Because it seems like something I'd really enjoy learning more about. I take great joy in the suffering of others. Hahahahaha. Sick I know. God help me. ] (]) 23:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::::It would be rather unseemly and quite undignified for me to simply spout off with the first words that came to my mind. I'd think that in a day or two I'll be able to address the situation in a calm and rational manner. It's really not a big deal, but rather an "ego-bruise" that has already started to heal. It's honestly a very minor thing. I'm already feeling a tad guilty for my initial ''thoughts'', but I suspect I'll be able to make my views known in a mature fashion shortly. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 00:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ugh... I'm losing interest already. Too many big words and a diminishing of the glorious passion.
:::::What is it the bad guy in ] says? Let your hate out Luke, or something like that? Come on over to the Dark side Chedsky. It's all good here. :) No just kidding around. Sorry you're having a rough patch. Maybe you need a break and to leave the 'Pedia alone for a bit so you can mingle with all the crazies in real life. Then you can come back and visit with the crazies on here. Rinse and repeat. :) Is it hot where you are? It's lovely here. PEACE! ] (]) 00:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::Ah, yes, but - as 7 of 9 once told Captain Janeway "Your passion ''will'' be your undoing". Come to think of it, I believe that Mr. Spock also said something similar to Dr. McCoy in TOS. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:14, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


'''The object of ]''' is ''not'' to make it either easier or harder to become an admin - those criteria are set by those who !vote at each RfA. By providing a unique venue for developing ideas for change independent of the general discussion at ], the project has two clearly defined goals:
==RfA==
#Improving the environment that surrounds RfA in order to encourage mature, experienced editors of the right calibre to come forward, pass the interview, and dedicate some of their time to admin tasks.
I see there is a lack of RfA candidates at the moment and I know there's a constant fear that we may run out of admins at any moment. What do you think about nomming Drmies? He's a royal pain in the ass and a devoted communist, but he might make an okay admin. At some point S Marshall and Kelapstick should also be reconsidered (I haven't kept track of how long it's been since their previous attempts, but I guess a couple more months may be needed?). And Michael Q Schmidt deserves adminship, but maybe he's stepped on too many toes? I can't think of anyone more devoted to saving and improving articles and I have total confidence in his judgment and fairness in upholding policies and respecting other editors. But who knows how that approval process really works. Anyway, just a thought. I'd nom, but I think my involvement would tend to hurt a candidate's chances, particularly if I were the nom. Too much gamesmanship and grudge holding. ] (]) 18:28, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
#Discouraging, in the nicest way possible of course, those whose RfA will be obvious NOTNOW or SNOW, and to guide them towards the advice pages.
The fastest way is through improvement to the current system. Workspace is however also available within the project pages to suggest and discuss ideas that are ]. Users are invited to make use of these pages where they will offer maximum exposure to the broader community, rather than individual projects in ].


] - let's not clutter the project with perennial chat. RFA2011 ''is now ready'' to propose some of the elements of reform, and all the task force needs to do now is to pre-draft those proposals in the project's workspace, agree on the wording, and then offer them for central discussion where the ''entire'' Misplaced Pages community will be more than welcome to express their opinions in order to build consensus.
:I'll take a look. I've never done a nom before. There's actually 2 other ones I've been thinking about; one that I think would breeze through it, and one that might be a bit controversial - but actually knows how to use the tools very well. I'll look through the contribs. over the next day or two, and see what I can come up with. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
::If you have people in mind do them. Best to go with what you know. ] (]) 21:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:::One has said they will consider it at the end of the month, and Chzz is thinking about it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 21:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


'''New tool''' Check your RfA !voting history! Since the editors' RfA !vote counter at X!-Tools has been down for a long while, we now have a new to replace it. A significant improvement on the former tool, it provides a a complete breakdown of an editor's RfA votes, together with an analysis of the participant's voting pattern.
==WikiProject Films July 2009 Newsletter==
The ''']''' of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! ] (] • ]) 00:47, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


'''Are you ready to help?''' Although the main engine of RFA2011 is its task force, ''constructive'' comments from any editors are always welcome on the project's various talk pages. The main reasons why ] was never successful in getting anything done are that threads on different aspects of RfA are all mixed together, and are then archived where nobody remembers them and where they are hard to find - the same is true of ad hoc threads on ].
== Look new artical ==
{{collapsebottom}}


<small>Delivered by ] on behalf of ] at 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC).</small>
Ched I made a new page called ] could you check it out when you have time
<!-- Delivery requested by ] and approved by ]. -->


== DC-area Meetup, Saturday, October 8 ==
:Wow, that's quite a collection of information there Pedro. I am very flattered that you would go to so much trouble to show an interest in something that I enjoy. To be honest though, it actually wouldn't be a very good idea to move it out into article space, at least as it is. Several reasons come to mind: 1.) It is largely a collection of articles that we already have (], ], and many of the various divisions that make up NASCAR) 2.) Also, while several of our best articles (]) do tend to be a bit lengthy, this one would be ''too'' long to qualify as a particularly good article. 3.) Primarily though, the main reason that it would likely be shot down would be because we already have "]". One reason we don't want to let articles get to be too long is that some people have older computers with older browsers - and pages that get too big can cause their computers to lock up, or not display the entire thing.
{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.
|-
|]
|You are invited to the National Archives in College Park for a special ] meetup with ] ], on Saturday, October 8. Go behind the scenes and into the stacks at the National Archives, help digitize documents, and edit together! Free catered lunch provided! ]·] 16:02, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
|}


==Tfd: Facepalm==
:Now, I don't want you to be discouraged, I think it shows tremendous dedication, and obviously took a great deal of work to put together. In fact, I not only bookmarked the page, but I also saved it so that I can refer to it often as I work on NASCAR articles. I think you are doing a wonderful job at learning Misplaced Pages, and I can certainly see that you have already learned so much here. Even those folks that have been here for years, have become administrators, crats, or arbitrators often suggest things that don't work out. I honestly hope that I'm not discouraging you, I think you have great promise to be one of best contributors.
*See ]
*{{Facepalm}}... Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire~! --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 17:36, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
==You're invited! Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC==
{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
|-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"|]
|-
|
]
Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries comes to DC on Saturday, November 5th, from 1-5pm, at the Martin Luther King Jr Memorial Library.


We will be holding an edit-a-thon, working together to improve Misplaced Pages content related to DC history, arts, civil rights, or whatever suits your interests. There may also be opportunities to help with scanning historic photos plus some swag!
:Thank you again for putting the page together, I really appreciate it, and I'll use it as a reference when I can. ;-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


You're invited and we hope to see you there!
:Don't worry, this dose not disscurage me I'll learn from it and keep on working, =D. --] (]) 02:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
|-
|style="font-size:120%;text-align:center;" colspan="2"|
''']!'''
|}
----
<small>Note: <small>You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list ]. -- Message delivered by ] (]) 18:38, 31 October 2011 (UTC), on behalf of ]</small></small>
: Obviously I'm not gonna make any of this stuff this time around ..sorry, ... but hope you folks had a great time. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


==]==
:::Great! Cause I think you're doing a great job, and learning very quickly. ;-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 10:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


You may be interested in this. ] (]) 11:06, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
::On the computer I am currently using, large pages like ] load very slowly. I was therefore obligated to open this page, per ]. Not surprisingly, my computer ''did'' lock up :) <tt>]</tt> (]) 10:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


==Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & DC Meetup 26!==
:::I hope you don't mind if I have a bit of a chuckle ;P — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 10:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


{|style="background:#d5dceb; border:1px solid #6881b9; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
<-- Not at all. In fact, I'm going to give you one of these:
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Guidance Barnstar'''
|- |-
!colspan=2 style="font-size:150%;"|] - Who should come? ''You should.'' Really.
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Awarded for your thoughtful comments , an exemplary piece of constructive criticism. <tt>]</tt> (]) 12:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
|-
|]
|'''FINE ART EDIT-A-THON & DC MEETUP 26''' is December 17! The Edit-a-Thon will cover fine art subjects from the ] and the meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving ] professionals. You don't have to attend both to attend one (but we hope you do!) Click the link above and sign up & spread the word! See you there! ] (]) 17:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
|} |}
Regards, <tt>]</tt> (]) 12:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


== dr peter mcparlin == == RFA thankspam ==


Thank you for your support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. Best, ''']''' '']'' 21:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
hi Ched thanks for all your help to date


I noticed the page is still not web accessible


==re: ]==
so presume it is still being knocked backed for amendments?
Chad


Your email to me is correct as the biography of Kimo Williamswas a cut and paste from my web site. However, I also wrote the biography. Should I cut and paste from my original word document?
be grateful of your advice


Paul <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 08:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> Kimo Williams <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:Good day to you sir. First, let me say it's an honor to meet you. I did receive your email, and I will follow up on this. I want to do a bit of research before I can say for sure how we should move forward here. As you may have noted, your edits were reverted on the article .. basically because it was a cut and paste from your website. Especially since that site stated the "all rights reserved" we can't just do a copy and paste since it would violate our ] policies. I want to check in with a few folks who are better versed in the area on how to proceed, but I will get back to you in the next couple days. If you happen to have any links to ''other'' websites .. such as perhaps any interviews you've done, or news reports that document any information it would be very helpful as well. I look forward to working and helping with this. Cheers and best. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 16:09, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:OK, I just looked again, and it doesn't look like anything has been done since my last suggestions. You still need to establish ''']''' of ] and reference it with ] before we can move it out into main-space. I'm sorry that I don't have the time to do all the work for you, but if you can point me to a good news article, or a good on-line book that shows '''why''' he's notable, then I'll try to get a referenced paragraph typed up for you. Simply because he was a good doctor is not an acceptable reason - there has to be some sort of verifiable proof that the good doctor is ''notable''. Somewhere, I had left you a couple links to read through - did any of those establish anything that sets him apart from his peers? Read through ] and more specific to that article - read through ]. If after reading through those, you still feel that a good case can be made, feel free to drop me the URL of something that establishes the notability - and I'll gladly try to get it up to an acceptable stub quality, and help you move it into Name Space.
==Occupy Marines==
Hey Ched, thanks for the note. Yes the discussion is getting rather long on the AfD - have to feel for the poor closing admin... Youre writing skills look fine from where Im sitting. I agree the article isnt ideal in its current form. Maybe there's two solutions. If others agree, ] or similar could be created. An issue with this is that although its more notable, it is in a sense a less concrete topic than our current one. Maybe the best solution is to wait for a few weeks and then try to improve the existing article? I havent done so myself yet for similar reasons to your good self - there seems to be a lot of passion and energy from both sides right now, but it will almost certainly dissipate if we wait a while.


Sorry to oppose what may seem like a workable compromise. Ive been a fairly substantial contributor to our main Occupy Movement article, and there is so much interesting stuff folk want to add that much of it is having to be rejected. Discussions are currently under way to split out sections into dedicated articles. OWS seems similarly cramped. So Im hoping no one will try to force a merge. As the excellent editor DreamFocus always says, a forced merge is often an excuse for deletionists to destroy what they dont like when they cant get a delete decision. ] (]) 17:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:On another note, you'll really need to get your "signature" resolved before too long. Read through ]. Basically, at the end of anything you post on a talk page, you need to end your entry by placing 4 tildes before clicking on the save page buttons. The "tilde" is in the upper right of your keyboard - to the left of the number 1 key on US computers. Simply type " '''<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>''' " (without the quote marks) before you finish your post. Place them at the conclusion of what you type. This lets people know ''who'' typed the message, and ''when'' it was left. I'll look in on the article in the next couple days. Cheers, and happy editing. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 10:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


:sounds like a plan. I'll put on my watchlist, and if push comes to shove I'll restore and move to user space somewhere (in order to keep history). — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 19:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
==Mentor==
Chedsky, I hereby nominate you to relieve Durova as mentor for ]. She's indicated that she'd like to pass the torch and I know you'll do a great job. Good luck! ] (]) 17:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
:I do appreciate the confidence; however, at the moment I have 2 editors that I'm assisting, another editor I've promised to help with a FA, a FLC that I've been working on, and a DYK I'm wanting to get rolled out. A possible RfA candidate who may want a nom statement, another friend who is considering a RfA, and a promised nom statement at the end of the month. I'm honestly not familiar with Bluemarine, the situation, or the baggage it might entail. I am truly sorry, but I must regretfully decline at this time. I am honored that you think so highly of me though ;) (I could also go into what's going on in r/l - but that wouldn't be very "wiki-like": ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 18:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
::Understood. But it would have been tremendous fun to see you at the center of that chaos. Good luck with your other endeavors. :) ] (]) 19:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


== Mentor == == BN ==


Pfft; fun; that's how wars start eh? hee hee :-)
ched look a user, said he is intrest in adpoting me, (mentor) but i do not think i want to be mentored because your kind of helping me and i think youd helped me more tell me what you think. --] (]) 02:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:Ched is my best pal on wiki. I'll call him on the phone and see what he thinks, because he's at work, if I recall correctly. <font face="Forte">] <sup>]</sup></font> 02:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::That's sweet. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 02:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks Steve. --] (]) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


'nings <small><span style="border:1px solid;background:#00008B">]]</span></small> 20:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
:::OK - I will take a look at this as soon as possible. I may be called away in real life for an Emergency Response item: (see: ]). I will take a look at this ASAP however. Pedro, please discuss any major changes on the article talk pages before making big changes. We are encouraged to be ], but we must also remember that there are many other people spending a lot of time to work out how things are done, and how things should look. It's good that you are helping, but when you are first starting out, sometimes it's best to talk to the people who work on the articles ''before'' you make too many changes. Don't worry about the 24 issues, Steve and I will get that worked out here shortly. Keep trying, and keep talking to the other users. We are all here to help each other, and we were all new at one time too. ;-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:03, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:I feel like such an idiot .. lol. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 20:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


== StalkLulz == == Well done ==


{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
In case you miss it; ] <small><span style="border: 1px solid; background-color:darkblue;">]]</span></small> 19:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
:LOL ... I left a note there. And hey, let me know when you decide about the RfA thing. I have no doubt you'd be good at it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Random Diplomat Award'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I hereby bestow upon you this Random Diplomat Award. ] was chosen to represent this high office by virtue of the facts that (a) her image is public domain, (b) she doesn't look mean, (c) she's facing right, and (d) she reproduces well in miniature.


You, by contrast, were chosen with great precision to receive the reward, in honor of your diplomacy and friendliness in dealing with ]. I think it's important to put a good face on Misplaced Pages for everyone, and I admire the way you approached it. ] <sup>]</sup> 12:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
|}
:I'm watching his page in case he decides to verify license, but I have to admit there's a chance I'll overlook it. I'm not on as often as I'd like to be in this account. :) If you happen to see him leaving notes or questions that I can help with, please let me know. --] <sup>]</sup> 12:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


::awwww .. thank you so much MRG ... you are so da-gone sweet. :-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 18:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
== 24: day zero ==
Ched would it be a good idea to make a Day Zero artical. -- 02:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


:::{{small|The next line is, "...got that sand all over your feet..." ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 21:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)}}
== misc. ==


Thanks, all for your help with ]. Much appreciated. Wasn't sure what the best course of action was. ] 02:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to guess that you've already observed that Rvcx is back to what got him blocked for a day in April. I only knew about this because he was on my watch list for some since-forgotten reason. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


== ANI comment (Review of block reviews) ==
:Hey, yea, I just noticed that. I'm familiar with him from the ] article. Actually, he did some good work on moving things to a more NPOV slant there - but I do remember back when the 3RR block came about. Hopefully he won't get that carried away again. I left him a "welcome back" note, but he's never been particularly friendly with me - even though we did agree on several things. You might want to put the Sanger article on your watchlist - looks like we might have another "co-founder" go round. Me personally?, .. hey - I have the utmost respect for Larry, I even joined his new site. Just not much going on there. I think he had a lot to do with a lot of our good policies here. I sometimes wish he was back here. What's your thoughts on the matter? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 08:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


I was actually responding (and posing the question) to Nobody Ent. I'm sorry if the indention was not clear that I was making the reply to the OP and not you. ] (]) 20:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
::Larry is now on my watch list. I see Rvcx is running the risk of fomenting the edit war. I don't really understand what the issue is. He's a co-founder, and is no longer connected to wikipedia, right? I've had offline discussions about citizendium, and it sounds more like what a citizen-built encyclopedia ''could'' be. The edit-warring and poor-quality writing on wikipedia are a constant source of frustration, and sometimes lead me to think that what wikipedia ''really'' is, is a gigantic social experiment being conducted for Wales' doctoral thesis or something. I often think wikipedia should be more restrictive. However, I gather that citizendium is ''extremely'' restrictive. Seems like there could be some middle ground somewhere. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 09:18, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:ahhh .. ok .. no problem. I know I don't always do real well at explaining what I'm thinking. Have a good one — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 20:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
m²==Brains work Better==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The 'Brains Work Better in A Community' Award'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you for all your efforts to befriend your fellow Wikipedian Editors. Sometimes we need a reminder that we are all human afterall. This barnstar is awarded to Editor Ched Davis for having the intelligence to work in ] with situations and other editors. ]<small>]</small> 23:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
|}
<noinclude>


:::I haven't logged into Citizendium for quite a while. The last time I really edited there was during a "let's write articles" drive, and I had tons of "server is down" errors. I have a ton of respect for Larry, and I first came across his WP article from a RFC. I had quite a discussion with QuackGuru for a bit. I respect how much he tries to do here, and he hasn't had a block for quite a while. At the time I had a very difficult time communicating with him. I really only wanted to get a very POV "list" out of the article, or at least have it evened out to a more NPOV reflection. I probably don't have more than a dozen edits to the ''article'', but I've probably got over 50 edits to the talk page. It does seem like things are ramping up there again, so I will keep an eye on it. Hopefully I won't run afoul of Lara/Jennavica - I'm not really sure she cares too much for me. Not that it's really relevant, and she's always helped me when I asked .... Just an impression I've gathered over time. Citizendium has some great qualities, I wish it had some more support actually. It could make a great "counter-point" type of thing for us here. I've often thought if we could combine ''those'' type of restrictions ''here'' as our type of flagged revisions - the two sites could work well together. I kind of get the impression that there are some hard feelings between Larry and Jimbo - I think that's a shame really. I always looked at it like Jimbo was the "father" who went out and did the work to put the money on the table, and Larry like the "mom" who stayed at home and nurtured, built, and developed the project. Developing policies and guidelines and such. I think that Larry doesn't really get the notice and appreciation that he deserves - and even Jimbo has stated the same thing at times.


:::Hmmm ... I wonder if I could "mediate" a reconciliation between Jimbo and Larry ... LOL. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :Buster .. you are such a kind and decent man. there is no way I deserve such a thing .. but I do thank you. I have some real life things to take care of here for the next day or 3 with my grandkids .. but I do promise to get back to you very soon. All my very best my friend - have a safe and happy holiday. :) ... — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 16:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
::I have 13...or is it 14. Best to you and yours.]<small>]</small> 22:30, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Maybe negotiate peace between Iran and Israel, and then you'll be ready. :) I try not to worry too much about whether any particular editor "likes" me or not, especially as they don't really know me (except maybe for the very few that I've had offline e-mails with from time to time). My main concern is whether someone helps or hinders in improving content. That's the core of my beef with guys like CoM. I contrast that with someone like the Cyrillic alphabet soup guy from Bulgaria that several of us are in lively debates with concerning the Apollo Hoax article. We've had plenty of words about various things, but it hasn't stooped to the personal level, for the most part. (In contrast with the ugly war that occurred on that page some time back.)] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 09:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


== baiting for wp:civil ban ==
:::::LOL @ the Iran/Israel thing. Yea - I'll get on that straight away. ;). I agree that it's not important that anyone "like" anyone here - rather it's that the project is designed to develop an online repository of knowledge. As far as Lara goes, well ... if you knew my daughter, you'd appreciate my situation. The two of them have soooo much in common, from looks, to the strong determined independent stance in life. It's hard for me to not transfer my feelings for my daughter - to an editor that reminds me so much of her. But, as you say, it's really not relevant. Lara is a hell of an editor, and a huge "plus" to WP, so I'm content with a mutual co-existence. I do understand your situation with CoM Bugs. Heaven knows I've tried to find a common meeting ground on that. If I had any way whatsoever of helping - I think you know I would. I'll have a look in on the Apollo Hoax article, and put it back on my watchlist - might be interesting. Ya know, you are right about the "we are not here to be friends" thing - but I've found it to be an absolutely wonderful side event. There's some folks here that I think the world of - in fact, I even offered one guy a place to stay if he needed it. WP is a torturous yet wonderful thing that is so complex that it's difficult to put into words.


hi!
:::::Hey, if I do end up being able to take a road trip up to my buddies place to see some racing in Wisconsin, I'd love to stop by Chi-town and buy you lunch or dinner. You like baseball ... I like NASCAR, but I'd bet my bottom dollar we could have a hell of a good time.


You wrote: "I've seen experienced editors (including some admins) use sugar-coated condescending and baiting text to draw an (dare I say?) opponent into a "blunt" retort: and then lower that "civility" hammer."
:::::By the way, are you folks hearing much about the shooting in Pittsburgh/Bridgeville/LA Fitness that happened over the hill from me? 3 women were killed, 10 other wounded, and gunman blew his own head off. It's really a big story here - but I don't know how much the rest of the world is hearing about it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 10:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


I didn't think there was much point trying to explain this but as you so specifically described the tactic, I was just looking at this:
::::::Yeh, I saw the story in USAToday.com Now there will probably be the usual battle in wikipedia as to whether to have an article about it. I stay away from those battles anymore, as the deletionists just go ballistic (pardon the ironic metaphor). Every one of these attention-getting shootings are the result of narcissim, or so says Dr. Bugsy. Nobody liked him (wonder why), so he's going to make them pay for it, randomly. Reminds me of a ''Dragnet'' episode that was the pilot for the late-60s revival of the old show. It involved a serial killer. When Friday and Gannon got the goods on him, he owned up to it, and they asked him his motive. The killer (played by Vic Perrin, better known as the voice of ''The Outer Limits'') said, "I killed those girls because ''they asked me to.''" ??? "They said they'd ''rather be dead than be with me.''" So this kind of thing (killing yourself and taking a few with you) is not altogether a new idea. The ] story from around that time is vaguely similar, except he had a brain tumor, which changes the picture a bit. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 10:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::::And I see you're on it already. ] is its current title. That's just one of the likely battles. Ultimately, deletionists will raise the "notability" flag, but with coverage in national media you'll have a better chance of keeping it. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 10:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


* This indefinite ban:
←Yea, I wrote it up last night when it happened in my user space - then moved it out to article space when I had it referenced with multiple sources. It's been bounced around a bunch with different names via "move", but for now I'll just try to keep out spam and unreferenced material. In a week or so, I'll drop back in and try to clean up the references, and prose. If it goes to AFD, well, it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over - but I think there is enough WP:N and WP:V with WP:RS that will support it staying. Hopefully it will end up with a better title - but we'll see. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 11:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
* Which was based on this wp:civil report:
* Which talked about this discussion:.
* Where Anna was answering the question raised in this edit:
*The response was: "And what has your crackpot conspiracy theory got to do with the article? We don't give a rat's arse what you think 'may' be happening. Please don't spam this page with delusional junk."


This baited Anna into writing the first bad comment she ever wrote for which she was indefinitely banned.<small>The article talks about a company that was note worthy 17 years ago. It is perfectly valid to use the talk page to figure out when ''Clean Energy Technology Inc'' closed shop or if it was merged etc.</small>
== Gracias ==


Examples of AndyTheGrump's trying to bait me:
Muchas gracias Ched, LOL, thanks for the classes there realy useful. P.S can you help me with my signature how do you put some color on the name? =D --] (]) 19:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:I made my signature by looking at other people's signatures. Look around, find someone's with a color you like, and insert your name in where their name is =). Como estas? I think that means how are you in Spanish ... unless it's donde estas? ] <sup>(] • ])</sup> 01:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
* "What fucking part of 'not WP:RS don't you halfwits understand?)"
* "fuck off, scumbag"
* "moron"
* "go fuck yourself"


How he talks about me:
::I think "donde" is "where". There are gender related things in Spanish that I've forgotten a lot of. a=feminine, o=masculine ... IIRC. It was so long ago, I forget so much of it though. Hey - just noticed that you helped with the shooting article - thank you! I've only gotten one pic of Norton - it's a box of 360 3.0 - as soon as I find the NIS, I'll get that as well. I'll have to check back in on your sandbox expansion too - how's it going? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


* "Please don't post ridiculous notices about 'consensus'. The fuckwits edit-warring over this article don't give a damn about such concepts - and frankly, if Misplaced Pages is going to tolerate such morionic POV-pushing turds, it can manage without me..."
:::Do you meen the Simmons family, if it is it's going preety good, and yes donde is where her= ella, him =el. SYL...LOL. --] (]) 20:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


I just ignore him but it is obvious enough this user should not be filling wp:civil reports about anyone. The mechanics seem to work exactly the way you described. ] (]) 13:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Hey, sorry to all - been very busy IRL lately. Pedro - I'll take a look this weekend at your article, and I'll try to get time this evening to help you with your sig. TO - I did get a pic of the Norton 360 box (ver. 3.0) - and will try to get NIS this weekend. Steve - I'll get something written up tomorrow on business.


I just found this Arbitration Case. It provides this example. ] (]) 14:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
::::'''Any friendly Talk Page Stalkers (esp. Admin.)''' The whole ] article thing is now a royal mess - looks like an IP tried to "move" by copy/paste - hence article history is still left at one of the redirects. When I get back, if it hasn't been done - I'll try to fix, then request a RFPP (I'd do it myself - but COI as creator and editor might not sit well). It should prolly be protected from moves (3 days to a week). Per ] it should prolly be "2009 Collier Township shooting" or something along those lines. I'll do a RFC in next day or two to get consensus - but all this moving around isn't helping a damn thing - especially when moves aren't done properly. Any help is appreciated. I'll be back online in a couple hours. Thx folks — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 00:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
<---That should be it, I <s>think</s> hope. Page is now at ], with relevant history from both articles, including the name change by IP to the new article. <tt>]</tt> (]) 00:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


== Re: Aww crap ==


:*first let me say that I am truly sorry that anyone has treated you so poorly here. And I do promise to look into this and try to find a way to a better understanding
Heh, looks like a fine closure to me. But really, I never understood some people's dislike of Bishie...I've certainly never had any trouble from her. <span style="white-space:nowrap">— ] <small>(] • ] • ])</small></span> 01:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
:*second .. and I am sorry that I'm not on this asap .. but it is a major holiday in my part of the world ... my grandkids have to come first for the next day or two — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 15:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
::*And a merry christmas to you too~! --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


:::Merry Christmas :)
:I'm surprised I haven't gotten any fallout over it really. I know FT2 is a pretty high ranking editor around here, and I was a tad afraid that he'd land on me pretty hard for closing that. I just thought that the whole thing had pretty well played out and all. I mean, after Jimbo and ArbCom - where else is there left to go really? It seemed to me that both Bish and Daed both admitted to regretting a couple posts that got overly emotional - and neither one of them seemed to want to pursue anything further. I didn't see reviewing things that had happened 2 years ago as terribly productive either. I've never worked with Bish on any articles or anything, but I do rather enjoy a couple alt. persona things she's got going on. Seems like a nice girl/lady with an enjoyable sense of humor and all. I guess I was worried about nothing really. Hopefully time will mend some of the wounds, and things will be better in the future. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:08, 7 August 2009 (UTC) <small>(cc to UT)</small>
::Nice . In Soviet Russia, AFD close you. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 04:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Yea, I noticed that - missed a "y". Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to edit an "edit summary" once it's been posted yet ... lol. ;-( — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::::I like how you close a highly controversial topic and fuck up on the edit summary. LOL. That's something I would do. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 04:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::...kind of like speaking to a large important crowd in RL with you zipper open. Well done, <s>Chad</s>Ched.--] (]) 04:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::LOL - yep that's me. I've done that a few times. The first I can recall was moving a wp:rip proposal out into mainspace - and I completely screwed up the spelling. Perhaps I ''should'' join the "Bathrobe cabal" - then I wouldn't have to worry about the zipper ...lol. I wonder if they'd make me give up my membership in the ]? ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
{{cquote|'''] is one giant piece of shit. It's what your wife says when you walk in on her with another man. "]" Not only is AGF insulting, it makes us all stupider. Extremely and irrevocably stupider.''' -- <small>]<sub> ] ]</small></sub>}}


:::I'm not bothered by the treatment, it just doesn't seem appropriate to ban anyone for being rude to him.
:Responses:
:#I assume you mean that in a good way. ;-)
:#Them's fighting words! ;-(
:#Ahh... come on. Tell us what you ''really'' think. >:-/
<small>Note: the above post should be avoided by the irony impaired.</small> — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 06:03, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::Go be a . I bet you get eaten alive. ]<sub> ] ]</sub> 06:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


:::It's a classic case of "Charlie bit my finger".
:::Actually, I believe there is a 10-story tall wikipedian who is considering that at this very moment. ;) ... A picture of Ched in a bathrobe... hmmmmm ... that may be a frightening thought to a few folks here. lulz ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC) <small>Note: I did look for a graceful exit here, but just couldn't find one.</small>


:::] (]) 05:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
==Well deserved==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
::::I had never seen or heard of that "Charlie bit my finger" vid before. It did make me laugh ... I'm sure I'll use in the future. Yes, I agree - there are some folks that go back again to the lion's cage in an attempt to poke the ones that give exactly the reaction they expect - and then complain about that very reaction. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]

|rowspan="2" |
==Attack page?==
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Friendship Barnstar'''
*Ched, can be construed as an attack page? IMO, calling someone a prostitute is downright nasty and uncalled for on Christmas day or just about any other day. --<small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small> 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== GAN ] ==

Hi,

I have reviewed your nomination as ] and put it on hold for seven days so you can respond to the problems I've noted.

Please feel free to contact me with questions or comments.

Best wishes, ] (]) 20:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

== Have a great Christmas ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Christmas pudding is hot stuff!'''
|- |-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Have a wonderful Christmas. As ] says: "I wish you a hopeful Christmas, I wish you a brave new year; All anguish, pain, and sadness Leave your heart and let your road be clear." ] (] …]) 23:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your most excellent efforts in friendship towards your fellow Wikipedians, ] would like to award you the Barnstar of Friendship.
*<small>(note: This is an original "Friendship Barnstar" created, I believe, by User:Ched Davis.
|} |}


:Wow ... very cool, thank you Buster7. In all fairness, ] taught me my wiki-kindness. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 09:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


:awwwww .. thank you so much Pesky - very much appreciated, and I wish you a most wonderful day and season as well. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:33, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
== Do you now? ==


==Merry X'mas~!==
Hey ched, i was just wondering can any wikipedian can make or create a barnstar?. --] (]) 17:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
<div style="{{Round corners}}; float: left; margin-top: 3px; background-color: #FC9; border: 1px solid #8888aa; padding: 10px; width: 425px; clear: both;">
<div style="{{Round corners}}; border-style:solid; border-color:#4682B4; background-color:#900020; border-width:5px; text-align:left; padding:18px;" class="plainlinks" valign="top" width: 300px;> ]<div class="center"><p><span style="color:white">"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,</span></p><p> I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.</p><p><span style="color:white"> For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."</span></p><p><i><small>Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)</small></i></p><p>
<span style="color:white"> <small>] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">]</span></sup></small>is wishing you a ].</span></p><p><span style="color:white">This greeting (and season) promotes ] </span></p></div> <br />
<span style="color:white">Spread the cheer by adding <nowiki>{{Subst:Xmas4}}</nowiki> to their talk page with a friendly message.</span>
</div></div>
{{clear}}


:The basic answer is yes. You can see some standard ones at: ]. The people on the talk page of that should be able to help answer any questions about "how" to do it. I didn't forget about your sig. either - I'll drop a line shortly, after I get an unblock taken care of. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 17:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC) :Thank you so much Dave ... I hope you have a wonderful holiday as well. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:34, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


:Thanks Ched, your a great guy, '''hasta pronto'''. =D. --] (]) 17:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


==Merry Christmas==
:Thanks Ched. --] <sup>]</sup> 18:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
I would like to wish all my fellow editors a very Merry Christmas; and a most wonderful holiday season. Cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


==Frohliche Weinachten und Gluckliches neues Jahr==
::np, glad to help. sig looks good. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 18:50, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
] Photo from Baden_Wurttemberg, Germany.] ] 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
::Is it a white Christmas in your area? Not here, just a heavy frost. ] ] 12:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Yea, same here. Pittsburgh and Oakdale are a bit chilly .. but not white. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 13:11, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


==Parrish award==
==You've been doing article work?==
See has some but not all recipients. Making more edits too. ] ] 15:28, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Such a shock! I've fallen and I can't get up... ] (]) 19:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:Not sure what to do with these: *
:LOL ... hey, I'm gonna get that Daytona pole one through FLC, my sandboxed 1957 article is gonna get another DYK, and once the fuss dies down about the shooting, I'll get that cleaned up too ... well, that is if it don't kill me first. But hey, I gotta stop once in a while to give folks a hand if I can too. ;-) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 19:14, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
* ] ] 15:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


::very cool .. thanks for the links! ... hope to get back to it tonight. :) ... and thank you again for all your help PS — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 18:27, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
== RfA !vote (Headbomb) ==
:::I'm now not so sure these add much, should we just put them in ext links?] ] 23:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


:::: My guess would be that the N. Pilot one would be a good external at the Tuskegee article. The letter to Weckhorst I'd definitely keep - maybe as an external now, .. and if we continue to expand it has some good quotes and insight to how Parrish thought and acted. That first one may actually be in the refs now .. not sure. We did a bit more work on the article today - see what you think. What else do we need to do? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:15, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
After the resolution of the ] removal of comments situation (see ]), I feel that your !vote might be outdated. Since this is a close race, I would immensely appreciate it if you could update it (or confirm that you still oppose, if that is indeed the case). Regards. ]&nbsp;{<sup>]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-4.0ex;">]</sub>&nbsp;&ndash;&nbsp;]} 12:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


:Yea, the first is a ref from a few days ago. Added the other two to ext links, one each article. Unless you can think of something else, you should ask for a wrap up review now. ] ] 23:27, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
==DYK==
::GA CONGRATS!] ] 23:59, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm at 99 DYKs now and I want my 100th to be something special. I'm thinking about doing a large 5x expansion to some major NASCAR driver. Nothing is jumping out to me as being something that needs huge expansion. I spent over an hour looking at the stub and start class NASCAR articles and I didn't come up with much. The best thing that I could find it ] needs it real bad. I was hoping to take some big name NASCAR driver of ]'s caliber. Has any article ever jumped out at you? '''<font color="#000000">]</font><font color="#FFCC00">]</font>''' 02:37, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes, congrats! This is an article that many wouldn't have bothered with but definitely deserves to get attention. Hope you will continue improving it. Best wishes, ] (]) 00:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
::::A nice post-Christmas gift, you did it! GA added GA you know where, --] (]) 12:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


:] is what jumps to my mind. I'd say pick someone you really liked when you first got interested in the sport. Gant would be a good one too I would think. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC) *'''Thank you all'''. It's a real pleasure and a privilege to work with you folks. I am so glad you let me be a part of it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:27, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
::Pearson is a great suggestion! My biggest concern was being able to do a 5x expansion - the article can't have been too big to start with. Gant's article would have to be HUGE! I was just looking at ] and that's another candidate. Thanks for your input! '''<font color="#000000">]</font><font color="#FFCC00">]</font>''' 03:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


== C/2011 W3 (Lovejoy) ==
:::I just can't get over '''100''' DYKs ... wow! I wonder if that is a record. I've never seen anyone with as many as you have. Definitely going to have to come up with some kind of cool award for it ... that's for sure. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 03:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Actually, I'm tied for 36th on the ]. I used to hold at around 25th on the list until I got a full-time job. I'm still 25th if you subtract out nomination-only DYKs and only count ]. I'm quite proud of all that I've been able to do. There's an award for 100 and 200 DYK, but I think it's best to let a DYK regular give that award out because they'll speak more about what I've done (not only with articles but with the admin parts too). '''<font color="#000000">]</font><font color="#FFCC00">]</font>''' 03:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


Hey Ched, I was wondering if you'd mind examining ] for me. I just rewrote and expanded the thing, and while I'm rather proud of the result, I feel I need a friend to tell me everything I did wrong so my soul isn't crushed. :D <small>(And a belated Merry Christmas and early Happy New Year to ya!)</small><span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— ] <small>(] ] ])</small></span> 11:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well, your work is certainly impressive - no questions there! I'm just glad you took the time to get me involved in the NASCAR stuff. It gave me a direction to work in and all. There is just SOOOO much to do here. I do want to get the 500 pole article to FLC, and have been trying to improve that. My next DYK will likely be the ] one. I'm hoping to get a bunch of the redlinked years added this coming winter. Still want to get Earnhardt to GA someday, and the main NASCAR one eventually as well. There are tons of drivers who need to have their articles improved as well, and short of you claiming RTV - I'll likely be pestering you for help for years to come. ;-) Looks like you've decided on Flock - great choice! I really want to see a lot of those "original" drivers have more quality info in their articles. The tough part is that when you get back into that era - the ''web'' sources aren't quite as plentiful as the current drivers stuff. Let me know if you think there is anything in particular that I might be able to help with. I admit, my work on the pole article was because I saw it was at the top of your list as far as being important to you. I thought it was in a small way, a chance to repay you for all the help you've given me. I'm always willing to read through and help with anything though. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 04:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
::::::Sounds like a plan about developing those NASCAR articles. I'm glad it's given you direction. I've decided on David Pearson for my next DYK. I'm thinking about doing Flock for my 100th article created/expanded (minus the 10 nomination-only DYKs that I've done). I like the hook on that article - one about him having to do a pit stop during the race because his monkey mascot was going nuts in the car! Ya just can't make up something that interesting. Feel free to pester me as much as you want/need. And thanks for your work on the Daytona 500 polesitters article. I'm trying to help on it but it's so hard to find time in the summer with a full-time job, a full garden to weed and canning, plus hitting so many racetracks. I'm at 25 tracks now this year. I'm looking at around 30-33 tracks by the time the season ends in late October. '''<font color="#000000">]</font><font color="#FFCC00">]</font>''' 03:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


← Sounds like you have a pretty full plate. I can relate to that! I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements to both articles, and if you want me to look over anything - I'd be happy to. ;) ... I still want to put another hour or two into the pole article, but after that I don't know that I could do much more - except maybe just try a complete re-write from a couple of the sources. But I'm not sure it would be any better really. I'll drop you a line when I think I've reached the end of my abilities with it. Did you ask anybody to do a copyedit yet? Good luck at the tracks, it sure makes the new camera worthwhile huh? Cheers and best. ;) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :VERY cool. I've put it on my watchlist, and I'll try to do something productive on it in the next couple days. It's a topic I'll enjoy, and I always do enjoy working with you. ... beside, maybe it will get me away from some of the AC drama. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 11:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


::To take you further away I suggest some ] related to a comet, pictured, --] (]) 11:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
==The Balkan League==
Hello Ched Davis. Seeing that you noticed the new edits on the Balkan League article and in case you have the time, could you please take a fresh look over the tone/style of the article to see if it's the appropriate? Since the txt in the article is almost a new one, if the problematic tone is no more present and the article contain no new inappropriate tone it would be good to remove the tone banner. In case you noticed new tone/style problems please inform me about, so to fix them. Thank you, --] (]) 07:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


:::Thank you Gerda - I did a search and listened for quite a bit to various selections in that genre. Very relaxing indeed. I always did enjoy Celtic music.
:I'd be happy to take a look. I may not get to it until tomorrow, but I will have a peek at it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 08:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
:::@Huntster .. that is a VERY well written article. Did it go to DYK or anything? I changed a thing or two .. got some clarification on the talk page - I'll see if I can find a reference for the response I got on talk as well - perhaps add that somewhere? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


== ''']''' ==
== Impostor accounts ==
{|style="border: 3px solid #6881b9; margin: 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; border-radius: 8px;" cellpadding="5"
|-
|You are invited to the ''']''', taking place every day next week from January 4–7, Wednesday to Saturday, in College Park, Maryland (Washington, DC metro area). Come help me cap off my ] at the National Archives with one last success!


This will be a casual working event in which Wikipedians are getting together to scan interesting documents at the National Archives related to a different theme each day—''currently: spaceflight, women's suffrage, Chile, and battleships''—for use on Misplaced Pages/Wikimedia Commons. The event is being held on multiple days, and in the evenings and weekend, so that as many locals and out-of-towners from nearby regions<sup>1</sup> as possible can come. ]! ]·] 01:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
This is deja vu from similar events early in the summer or late spring, when someone tried to impostor Axmann8 for the sole purpose of getting him in further trouble. It's happened a couple times since. I'm suspicious of the banned user Pioneercourthouse, just because he's been otherwise active recently, and he did some impostoring early in the summer. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


<small><sup>1</sup> Wikipedians from DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, and Pittsburgh have been invited.</small>
:Hmmm... I'll do a little research tomorrow (well - today actually), ... I'm not familiar with "Pioneercourthouse" account (yet), but I have seen a TON of socks (aka Assholes) stalking you. Feel free to drop me ANY links to crap that doesn't belong here. (NO ... don't link to CoM's page . ;)). I'll keep an eye open on the BBBfan ... and drop the hammer if it's needed. I suspect that you are absolutely correct that his account will be short lived. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 08:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
|]
|}


== Congratulations on reaching ] status on ] ==
:::"A ton"... so, can you imagine how much ''more'' of this junk would come my way if I were an admin? There's something to be said for being a peon. :) ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''Congratulations on your GA Article'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | The article ] that you -researched, developed, and substantially contributed to has reached the ] status. Thank you for your work here. ] would like to award you the GA Editing Barnstar.
|}
::THANK '''YOU'''! ] ] 18:28, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


== By the by ==
::I checked my e-mail and there was a note from a checkuser dated May 19th. There was a harassment account called Corpiestre that was connected to Pioneercourthouse, who's a long-term abuser going back about 3 years. Around that same time in May there was a Fondesep and a Horneldinkrag, which were doing similar impostoring but couldn't be tied to PCH. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for commenting on my evidence/analysis. On a related issue, your contribution to this affair surely deserves commendation, particularly in the way you promptly drew attention to the potential furore, and have acted consistently as a critical friend to MF. To me, that's a model for how we should all interact with other editors. '']'' 02:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:::If you want more info on this, I'll send you an e-mail. There are certain things I don't want to talk about publicly. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


::::No problem. I'll check my WP email and research what I can. I don't have "check user" abilities, but I'll certainly look into the situation as best as I can. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 08:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :wow .. to be honest, I don't know what to say. That you would take notice of my meager efforts here leaves me feeling wordless. I know that you are one of the "big guns" here, and I am truly flattered. Thank you so much for your kind words GG. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 02:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
::I just came here to say exactly the same thing, which I did with a twee bit of wikilove below. It's very hard to wade through a sewer and not come out smelling of crap, but you've managed. ]&nbsp;<span style="font-weight:bold;">&middot;</span>&#32;(]) 11:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


The qualities of an editor are defined by the quality of their edits: you've made some very good edits here, and I am pleased to see that I am far from being the only editor who has noticed. '']'' 23:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Also look at ] where I'm trying to explain the situation to them without giving too much information out, but they don't seem to be getting the point. I'll send an e-mail to you in a minute. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Sent. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 08:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
:thank you GG. I figure I still have tons to learn, and a long way to go - but I'll keep plugging away at it. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Civility Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I've been reading through the whole Christmas fun on civility (since I've been away for a bit). From what I've seen, almost everyone has acted in a way I'm not impressed with, but the way you handled the comment which sparked all of this off was a diamond in the rough. Kudos Ched, I'm glad there are people like you on WP. ]&nbsp;<span style="font-weight:bold;">&middot;</span>&#32;(]) 11:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
|}
:'''Strong support''', --] (]) 12:45, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:'''Support''', -]<small>]</small> 15:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


::::::::Replied, and I'll look into it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 08:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::thank you so much folks .. I honestly don't know what to say. There are just so many great folks here ... I feel honored just to be a part of such a great group of folks. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 20:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Sent another. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 09:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


:'''Support''' even though I don't know what's going on. I do know that you are a civil person :) <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— ] <small>(] ] ])</small></span> 22:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
← I see that through the SPI report that they are blocked now. Good call. Sorry I wasn't more help. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
:This may be the tip of the iceberg of an impostoring sock farm. The other related sock was created on ''June 14th''. It was called BO2ip01. That's right around the time BQZip01 was being hassled by ThreeE and Grandma Dottie and other socks about this seemingly mundane article: ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 00:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


::Looks like Versageek and Wknight94 have that one locked up as well. You're probably right about a bigger farm than we know. I wonder if blocking the IP would help? — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 01:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::lol .. thanks Huntster. Not really sure how I got into that huge ] myself. I really need to be hanging out with you at articles more I think. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:'''Strong support and OOH RAH''', Yea team! VERY well deserved! ] ] 23:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:::Well, I think it's done for now. We'll just have to wait until next time. ] <sup>'']''</sup> ] 04:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
::lol .. thanks PS. :) — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


==PA==
== Re:your message on my page ==


(As in "NPA".) Isn't a bit of an overreaction? First, you refer to ], but that's mostly about attacking one's addressee. Secondly, the writer doesn't refer to the politician as an asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron; or in the pay of Israel, "Islamofascists", or the tobacco business; or a puppet controlled by Bilderberg, the "Illuminati", Cheney, extraterrestrial reptiles, etc -- he merely calls him "abhorrent". True, this hardly indicates the dispassionate stance needed for encyclopedic writing, but it also hardly strikes me as a personal attack. (It also may be ''useful'' as an indicator that this editor isn't or can't be dispassionate.) -- ] (]) 12:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
{{Talkback|tide rolls}}


:I realize that the subject matter is quite polarizing, and that many folks have strong views on Santorum; but that does not give us leave to refer to others as "abhorrent". I could have and should have also linked to ] as well, and if you will note: I did not go and chastise the editor. I simply removed the offending remark. If you feel it is acceptable to refer to others as "abhorrent", then I'm not really sure what more I can say here. If you wish to revert me and restore the original ''"abhorrent Mr Santorum"'' than I will certainly not try to remove the comment again. I saw what I thought was an offensive personal attack on another living person, so I removed it. I don't have any desire to fight, edit-war, or create any major drama about it though. Feel free to revert at will - and thank you for notifying me of your objection to my actions. cheers and best, — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 13:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
== Thanks for your note, Ched ==


::Oh, the number of people who abhor Santorum should be beside the point; people should have no more or less right to call him abhorrent than to call Romney or Obama abhorrent. (My guess, though, is it that ''isn't'' beside the point: consider how little worry there seems to be about what's on, say, ].) What does it mean to say that somebody is abhorrent? Something like "I abhor him and a lot of other people do too". If that's on the right track (and it's only my first approximation), then it doesn't seem an attack to me; rather, it's a statement of and about strong dislike. -- ] (]) 13:57, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
If contemporary usage (by pundits and such like), and ], dictate that we call an article about the poliical slur "Islamofascism" by the article name ] ... then why don't the same considerations dictate that we call an article about the political slur "Israeli apartheid" by the article name ]? ] (]) 21:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


:::I think for me the distinction lies in the specific way the word is used. If one says "Mr. Santorum's politics, (or statement) is abhorrent" then the adjective clarifies an intangible (his politics or his statement) If one says that they "abhor ", then they state their own personal (and subjective) feelings toward a subject. But ''when'' a person uses the sentence structure: ''BLP doesn't cover this, since there is no false information about the abhorrent Mr Santorum.'' - then clearly (in my mind) the word "abhorrent" becomes a direct and deliberate attempt using the adjective to suggest that the '''person''' is ''inherently'' "abhorrent" ie: ''loathsome - odious - detestable - abominable - loathful''. If that is not a personal attack on someone - then I'm sorry, I don't know what is. '''Regardless of any political inclinations here''', can you honestly draw no distinction between these things? I may abhor Obama's political agenda. I may abhor the impact he's had on the US. But I can NOT say he '''is''' an abhorrent person on Misplaced Pages. BLP, NPA, and CIV simply forbid that kind of thing.
:Responded on your talk - sorry I'm not up to speed on the geo-political front. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


:::Ya know - there's a case going on now up at arbcom regarding language and civility. And for the most part we frown on people who ''do'' call others (to use some of your own words) "asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron..." (toss in a few of the more base and crass ones there and we could really have a blast here). But if it's going to come down to a ruling at Arbcom that we can '''not''' call people things like "c*nt, ass, c*cks*cker, etc.", but that it '''is''' perfectly fine to degrade and insult others so long as we use nice pretty words like "abhorrent, loathsome, odious, or detestable" then you set the entire site up for a class-warfare schism that many will not want any part of. (myself included).


:::I will be glad to take a look at the Mugabe stuff tonight. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 14:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
::::Seems like a pretty straightforward policy query to me. Supposedly, both articles owe their existence to the ] that kept them from being deleted, and ''not'' to geopolitical issues, which they're not supposed to cover -- except tangentially, as they relate to quoted usage in mainstream sources. What you've just said to me is a little like saying you can't offer me any advice on how to title the article ] because you haven't done a lot of reading about Indonesians.


::::Yes, we do indeed frown on people who call others assholes, wife-beaters, etc -- and rightly so (with the minor exception, I suppose, of those people who have been convicted of beating their wives or who have confessed to having beaten them, etc etc). To say that somebody is "abhorrent" is, I'd say, very different -- and as a description of undesirability it's tolerable (though not to be encouraged) when that person not only is a public figure but is also openly participating in what is very much a popularity contest. If somebody were to refer to ''you'' as "abhorrent" on a talk page, I'd probably leave it but have word with him either there or on his talk page. If on the other hand he referred to you as an "asshole", I'd "redact" it and give him an earful; a repeat would earn him a block. &para; Well, perhaps you and I disagree on what is and isn't degrading. -- ] (]) 02:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::::With all respect, this is the kind of non-response that earns Misplaced Pages a bad name from people who are prone to create conspiracy theories as a means of explaining the project's all-too-evident and pervasive bias against Muslims, of which this parallel is only one glaringly obvious example. You can call the people who promote conspiracy theories paranoid if you wish, but at least they have shouldered the burden of offering an explanation, which is far preferable, in my view, to simply changing the subject and pretending that you haven't noticed the problem. That's what you've done here, and it saddens me.
::::::Isn't that what civility blocks are all about? BLocking someone because there's disagreement about what is what?] ] 02:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::::No it isn't what they are all about. -- ] (]) 03:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Sure it is. Go look at the Malleus arbcase. ] ] 03:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::]? Yes, I looked at it. I released my cursor here and there within it, and read the surroundings. They looked interesting and intelligent, not least among them the comments by our genial host Ched. I also very much like the idea of "Malleus incivility birthday bingo"; time willing, I'll try it out. But read all of that stuff? Sorry, no. "This user is not an arb and does not wish to be one." I'll wait to read the results. Unless perhaps I'm <s>canvassed</s> asked to read some particular part within it. -- ] (]) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


* I will be away tomorrow ... but I will reply when I get back. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 05:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::::I had hoped you could point the way toward a resolution of this matter, or perhaps connect me to someone who was willing to do so. ] (]) 11:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
:*Only if you're in the mood to do so. No offense taken -- and certainly no gloating ("Wee-hee, I got the last word!") -- if you don't. There's so much else to be done. In the meantime, let me (again) reassure you that I do not intend to encourage the use of "abhorrent" or similar. -- ] (]) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


== Learning ==
:::::Ahhh .. OK, fair enough. I had noticed that you've been an editor for over 4 years, and figured that you were familiar with the process of ]. Here are the steps you should take then:


You mentioned "learning" in the edit summary for the above. I would like to expand my vocabulary and asked for a few words in their ], --] (]) 13:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
# Open discussion on the article talk page: ]
:Thank you!--] (]) 14:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
# As the page is fairly active, you'll likely be able to skip over the ] process, but it never hurts to try.
# If there is still no resolution (or ]), then I would next attempt posting to ]
# If you are still not satisfied, you can try ], although they may point you to:
# ] ... if that fails, then it's likely to get kicked up to ...
# ]


Note: you should try the first steps first, and not do all at once or skip to the bottom. Good luck. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 12:28, 12 August 2009
(UTC)


== Malleus Incivility Birthday Bingo: (May 9) ==
* I Win!!! RfC on PBS ... naaa .. that won't work - there were more supports for Malleus than any other section.
* .. naaa .. he was talking about himself.
*] ... naaa .. that was getting an article up to GA status.
*] ... nope again - another "improve the article to GA" thing.
*] ... drat .. another GA
*] awww come on now - how many Ga articles can one person do in one day?
* .. oh wait .. it's a compliment.
* .. well considering he was one of 63 opposes - might have to call this a wash.
*'''I Win''' . hmmmm .. wait a second - let me think about this one a bit..... (meh - he disagreed with ''ME''<sup></sup> - so I win!)


So - on this day in history, Malleus voiced the most supported view at a RfC, complimented one admin., opposed an RfA, pointed out an inconsistency at ], and took '''4''' articles to GA. Quite some days work I'd say. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 17:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
:Right. Before I proceed, what's your opinion on this issue? Do you feel we should have a standard approach to naming conventions as they relate these ''two'' articles specifically (and note the inherent difficulty of using ] to address standardization issues that affect two or more articles), or do you feel that the problem I've raised is not a particularly important matter? ] (]) 12:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


*<sup></sup> <small>I supported the SoV RfA.</small>
::If it is important to you (or any editor), then yes ... it is important. Now let me add a disclaimer here before I give a ''personal opinion''. There are many editors here who are much more knowledgeable about our ], and ], so if I was working on one of those issues, I would likely ask at those two talk pages before I gave any advice on what should be done. OK - personally I would prefer neutral terminology for "BOTH" articles if possible. I'd also work on addressing the concerns about the ] issues that both articles are tagged with. I don't care for negativity in articles, especially when it comes to the article titles. I know a lot of times people start pointing to ] when you "compare" articles. I also realize that discrimination exists, and that we have articles that discuss many types of it. Let me ask you a question. Is the term "Israeli apartheid" the MOST common name used by the sources used to reference and cite the article? (Note that we do have that ''redirecting'' to the article.) If it is, then yes, I would say that you have the stronger case in a discussion about it. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 13:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


== For the record ==


] is an internationally syndicated columnist whose work has appeared in dozens of markets for over twenty years. He has had five books published by major publishers; one of those books served as the basis for an award-winning musical. He launched the ], which drew the personal participation of the President of the United States (among many, many others). He may not be 'Walter Cronkite, Edward R. Murrow, or Rupert Murdoch', but he's never claimed to be (and really, categorizing Murdoch with Murrow and Cronkite? Murdoch is not a journalist. Murdoch ''employs'' journalists). That doesn't make him less of a significant or influential figure; he's well past '15 minutes'.
I believe it is, though I hasten to add that I am not wedded to moving the page to ]. My personal view is that name-calling is name-calling, and that if Israelis would not intuitively self-identify as proponents of apartheid, then the Misplaced Pages project would be best served by calling the article ] or some such. And, of course, I also believe that if Muslims would not, as a general rule, self-identify as fascists, then we're better off calling that article ] or something similar. I believe there is some policy that appeals to this "what would the group call themslves" principle, but I can't recall what it is.


I would also point out that Mr Savage's distasteful neologism says nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. ] (]) 20:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Here are some of the "Israeli apartheid" cites that show up in the article: <ref name="thismagazine">Ferguson, Sue. ''''. This Magazine. Retrieved 2008-01-12.</ref> <ref> , haaretz.com, 11/12/06. </ref> former United States ] ] <ref>Verter, Yossi "PM loses vote on Palestinian State," ''Haaretz'', May 14, 2002</ref><ref>Benvenisti, Meron "Bantustan plan for an apartheid Israel," ''Guardian'', April 26, 2004</ref><ref> Eldar, Akiva, "Analysis: Creating a Bantustan in Gaza," ''Haaretz'', April 16, 2004</ref> <ref>The ]n government wrote in a letter to the ] that "Zionist Israeli institutional terrorism in no way differs from the terrorism pursued by the apartheid regime against millions of Africans in South Africa and Namibia…just as it in no way differs in essence and nature from the ] terrorism which shed European blood and visited ruin and destruction upon the peoples of Europe." (UN Doc S/16520 at 2 (1984), quoting from ''Israel Yearbook on Human Rights 1987''. Edited by Y. Dinstein, M. Tabory, Martinus Nijhoff Publishers, 1987. ISBN 90-247-3646-3 p.36)</ref> <ref>] holds 'Apartheid Israel' week"] at ] by Jonny Paul</ref> <ref>The Congress of South African Trade Unions called Israel as an apartheid state and supported the boycott of the ]. ({{cite news |url=http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3260201,00.html |title=South African union joins boycott of Israel |date= |publisher=]}})</ref> <ref>"Israel has created in the Occupied Territories a regime of separation based on discrimination, applying two separate systems of law in the same area and basing the rights of individuals on their nationality. This regime is the only one of its kind in the world, and is reminiscent of distasteful regimes from the past, such as the apartheid regime in South Africa." B'Tselem, ''Land Grab: Israel's settlement Policy in the West Bank'', Jerusalem, May 2002.</ref> <ref> "To call Israel a Nazi state, however, as is commonly done today, or to accuse it of fostering South African-style apartheid rule or engaging in ethnic cleansing or wholesale genocide goes well beyond legitimate criticism." -- Alvin H. Rosenfeld, " 'Progressive' Jewish Thought and the New Anti-Semitism" </ref><ref>At Durban a large contingent wore T-shirts emblazoned 'Occupation = Colonialism =Racism, End Israeli Apartheid.' " -- Jerusalem Post, 8/22/07, ''Stop Durban II.'' </ref><ref></ref><ref></ref><ref></ref><ref></ref> Just as with "Islamofascism," the article addresses direct ("Israeli apartheid") and indirect ("Israel's apartheid yadayada") uses of the slur. In ], consensus is currently that no comprehensive listing of sources disputing the link with fascism may appear in the article, but I confess that the reasoning for this escapes me. (See ].) The ] article features the kind of comprehensive point-by-point comparison that many of us editing at ] would like to incorporate, but have been told we cannot, because the people we're citing aren't explicitly discussing the twelve letters I-S-L-A-M-O-F-A-C-I-S-M in sequence. Thus the popularity of the neologism "Islamofascism" currently serves as both the reason for the article's "untouchable" title, and the justification for not offering the views who dispute the validity of the term. A very different picture from that which we see at ], and one of many gross inequities, in my view.


:You are absolutely correct, and I apologize. I have re factored my statement. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 23:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
For what it's worth, "Islamofascism" generates ~220,000 Google hits. "Israeli apartheid" (in quotes) generates ~129,000. (Yes, I realize we don't make policy decisions based on Google hits, but I do think this demonstrates that both terms are in general use.) ] (]) 13:58, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 10:53, 8 March 2023

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Ched. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Archive 15←Archive 18Archive 19Archive 20Archive 21Archive 22→Archive 25
All history of my talk page from 2008 through 2011 are located on this page. This IS an archive though, so please direct any CURRENT thoughts to my CURRENT TALK PAGE HERE. Thank you.
Talk archives from July 2011 through January 5, 2012

Award

The Order of The King
I hereby award you this award,
for your consistently taking The High Road. :)
←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 08:44, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
  • WOW .. holy bazoinkers Batman. I don't know if I have EVER seen you give such a thing Bugs. Thank you ... I am totally at a loss for words here. — Ched :  ?  12:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


Crat bar

I thought I'd ask if you would like to comment on this discussion about the crat threshold as you seemed interested in the related dicussions a short while ago. Best regards. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 20:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

commented there. — Ched :  ?  21:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Ched. We've moved our discussion regarding the bureaucrat threshold to User talk:Hydroxonium/Requests for bureaucratship threshold and I thought you might like to comment on it. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 07:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Hydro, Looks good at first glance. I'll check it out in more detail this evening. Cheers. Ched (east coast USA) — Ched :  ?  15:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

The RfC has gone live here. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 02:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Digs

Hi. I didn't perceive any digs directed towards me. That said, the way you phrased your comment implied that bureaucrats would misuse the -sysop bit as a quasi-political tool. As that doesn't advance discussion of why or how emergency desysops should take place, I felt obliged to call you out on that. Titoxd 07:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

AHHH .. OK. And I didn't mean a dig at the 'crats' either. My thinking is this. The crats are "local", and edit or are active here on EN, so they are going to be familiar with many of the Admins. I think that familiarity leads people (even if unconsciously) to develop either a like or dislike (or perhaps mistrust is a better word) of some admins. I think that subconscious "knowing" of an admin. could all to easily play a role in the decision making process of whether or not an admin's actions were causing an "emergency". I just haven't seen many (perhaps one very questionable situation a few months back which arbcom handled involving some questionable mental stability issues) "emergencies" here on WP. I'll try to explain there as well. Thanks for letting me know that what I posted could be taken that way. It's late here, and perhaps I'm not expressing myself well at the moment due to fatigue. — Ched :  ?  07:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Closing

Re: . Thank you. Worm · (talk) 08:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Seemed to be stuck in one of those dreaded programming loops. :) — Ched :  ?  09:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
To say the least. Just a pity it wasn't closed sooner, tis one of the reasons I avoid ANI, it's easily one of the most toxic areas of the encyclopedia, everything seems worse there and if blocks aren't handed out within the first hour or so, threads almost always degenerate. I'm glad someone stepped up and shut it down :) Worm · (talk) 09:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI closure

Hi Ched!

While I registered some disagreement at the ANI, I permit myself here to thank you very sincerely for closing it.

You may wish to include some of the tail subtopics in your closed record.

Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi HW, it seemed that userbox and its braces were messing with my placement of "discussion close" ending. Best of luck in other venues with this, but perhaps it would be easier and best for all involved to just drop the stick. Not saying you have to, just a suggestion is all. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  09:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
I have no plans to continue such exchanges, but as you wrote while you closed, Worm plans to write an RfC.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Nels Running

Updated DYK queryOn 9 August 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nels Running, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that US Air Force Major General Nels Running, a recipient of seven Distinguished Flying Crosses, had never boarded an airplane until he left his home town to attend the Air Force Academy? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

RfA Reform update

Hi. It's been a little while since the last message on RfA reform, and there's been a fair amount of slow but steady progress. However, there is currently a flurry of activity due to some conversations on Jimbo's talk page.

I think we're very close to putting an idea or two forward before the community and there are at least two newer ones in the pipeline. So if you have a moment:

Thanks for reading and for any comments that you've now made.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 21:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC).

I've got mail

Hey Ched--did you email me a URL? I want to make sure it's actually from you before I click on it. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

NO ... DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK. I got several emails this morning from folks and made the mistake of clicking on one of the links .. must have spammed my contact list. Very sorry folks ... running scans now. — Ched :  ?  14:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Good luck cleaning up that mess...and BTW, that was a marvelous collection of goat porn! Drmies (talk) 14:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Can't say I know much about the goats, ... but I think I figured out where it started. Was a Facebook friend rather than a WP one .. sigh .. oh well. Thanks for the info. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  15:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Did someone say goat porn? By chance, I've just started an article on that subject and could use some references. Please forward to my P.O. Box, ASAP. Buster Seven Talk 15:17, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Ched, get active on wiki again like before. We need more than goat porn.PumpkinSky talk 20:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Should be back on a more regular basis the middle of next week. Wanna get some work into Noel's article. — Ched :  ?  21:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Glad to hear you're just on a break/busy. I almost forgot about Noel, but I'll do what I can to help. PumpkinSky talk 21:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

You're invited! Wikimedia DC Annual Membership Meeting

DC Meetup 23 & Annual Membership Meeting

Wikimedia District of Columbia, the newest officially recognized chapter, is holding its Annual Membership Meeting at 1pm on Saturday, October 1, 2011 at the Tenley-Friendship Neighborhood Library.

Agenda items include:

  • election of the Board of Directors for the next two years
  • approval of a budget for the 2011-2012 fiscal year
  • report on the activities and accomplishments of the past year
  • social gathering afterwards at a nearby restaurant

Candidate nominations are open until 11:59pm EDT on Saturday, September 24. We encourage you to consider being a candidate. (see see candidate instructions)

The meeting is open to both the general public and members from within the DC-MD-VA-WV-DE region and beyond. We encourage everyone to attend!

You may join the chapter at the meeting or online.

Note: You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot, on behalf of User:Aude

News and progress from RfA reform 2011

RfA reform: ...and what you can do now.

(You are receiving this message because you are either a task force member, or you have contributed to recent discussions on any of these pages.)

The number of nominations continues to nosedive seriously, according to these monthly figures. We know why this is, and if the trend continues our reserve of active admins will soon be underwater. Misplaced Pages now needs suitable editors to come forward. This can only be achieved either through changes to the current system, a radical alternative, or by fiat from elsewhere.

A lot of work is constantly being done behind the scenes by the coordinators and task force members, such as monitoring the talk pages, discussing new ideas, organising the project pages, researching statistics and keeping them up to date. You'll also see for example that we have recently made tables to compare how other Wikipedias choose their sysops, and some tools have been developed to more closely examine !voters' habits.

The purpose of WP:RFA2011 is to focus attention on specific issues of our admin selection process and to develop RfC proposals for solutions to improve them. For this, we have organised the project into dedicated sections each with their own discussion pages. It is important to understand that all Misplaced Pages policy changes take a long time to implement whether or not the discussions appear to be active - getting the proposals right before offering them for discussion by the broader community is crucial to the success of any RfC. Consider keeping the pages and their talk pages on your watchlist; do check out older threads before starting a new one on topics that have been discussed already, and if you start a new thread, please revisit it regularly to follow up on new comments.

The object of WP:RFA2011 is not to make it either easier or harder to become an admin - those criteria are set by those who !vote at each RfA. By providing a unique venue for developing ideas for change independent of the general discussion at WT:RFA, the project has two clearly defined goals:

  1. Improving the environment that surrounds RfA in order to encourage mature, experienced editors of the right calibre to come forward, pass the interview, and dedicate some of their time to admin tasks.
  2. Discouraging, in the nicest way possible of course, those whose RfA will be obvious NOTNOW or SNOW, and to guide them towards the advice pages.

The fastest way is through improvement to the current system. Workspace is however also available within the project pages to suggest and discuss ideas that are not strictly within the remit of this project. Users are invited to make use of these pages where they will offer maximum exposure to the broader community, rather than individual projects in user space.

We already know what's wrong with RfA - let's not clutter the project with perennial chat. RFA2011 is now ready to propose some of the elements of reform, and all the task force needs to do now is to pre-draft those proposals in the project's workspace, agree on the wording, and then offer them for central discussion where the entire Misplaced Pages community will be more than welcome to express their opinions in order to build consensus.

New tool Check your RfA !voting history! Since the editors' RfA !vote counter at X!-Tools has been down for a long while, we now have a new RfA Vote Counter to replace it. A significant improvement on the former tool, it provides a a complete breakdown of an editor's RfA votes, together with an analysis of the participant's voting pattern.

Are you ready to help? Although the main engine of RFA2011 is its task force, constructive comments from any editors are always welcome on the project's various talk pages. The main reasons why WT:RfA was never successful in getting anything done are that threads on different aspects of RfA are all mixed together, and are then archived where nobody remembers them and where they are hard to find - the same is true of ad hoc threads on the founder's talk page.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC).

DC-area Meetup, Saturday, October 8

National Archives Backstage Pass - Who should come? You should. Really.
You are invited to the National Archives in College Park for a special backstage pass and scanathon meetup with Archivist of the United States David Ferriero, on Saturday, October 8. Go behind the scenes and into the stacks at the National Archives, help digitize documents, and edit together! Free catered lunch provided! Dominic·t 16:02, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Tfd: Facepalm

You're invited! Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries DC & edit-a-thon

Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries comes to DC on Saturday, November 5th, from 1-5pm, at the Martin Luther King Jr Memorial Library.

We will be holding an edit-a-thon, working together to improve Misplaced Pages content related to DC history, arts, civil rights, or whatever suits your interests. There may also be opportunities to help with scanning historic photos plus some swag!

You're invited and we hope to see you there!

RSVP + more details!

Note: You can remove your name from the DC meetup invite list here. -- Message delivered by AudeBot (talk) 18:38, 31 October 2011 (UTC), on behalf of User:Aude

Obviously I'm not gonna make any of this stuff this time around ..sorry, ... but hope you folks had a great time. — Ched :  ?  22:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Dispute Resolution

You may be interested in this. Peter jackson (talk) 11:06, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & DC Meetup 26!

Fine Art Edit-a-Thon & Meetup - Who should come? You should. Really.
FINE ART EDIT-A-THON & DC MEETUP 26 is December 17! The Edit-a-Thon will cover fine art subjects from the Federal Art Project and the meet up will involve Wikipedians from the area as well as Wiki-loving GLAM professionals. You don't have to attend both to attend one (but we hope you do!) Click the link above and sign up & spread the word! See you there! SarahStierch (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

RFA thankspam

Thank you for your support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. Best, Schmidt, 21:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


re: Kimo Williams

Chad

Your email to me is correct as the biography of Kimo Williamswas a cut and paste from my web site. However, I also wrote the biography. Should I cut and paste from my original word document?

Kimo Williams — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimowilliams (talk • contribs) 15:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Good day to you sir. First, let me say it's an honor to meet you. I did receive your email, and I will follow up on this. I want to do a bit of research before I can say for sure how we should move forward here. As you may have noted, your edits were reverted on the article .. basically because it was a cut and paste from your website. Especially since that site stated the "all rights reserved" we can't just do a copy and paste since it would violate our copyright policies. I want to check in with a few folks who are better versed in the area on how to proceed, but I will get back to you in the next couple days. If you happen to have any links to other websites .. such as perhaps any interviews you've done, or news reports that document any information it would be very helpful as well. I look forward to working and helping with this. Cheers and best. — Ched :  ?  16:09, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Occupy Marines

Hey Ched, thanks for the note. Yes the discussion is getting rather long on the AfD - have to feel for the poor closing admin... Youre writing skills look fine from where Im sitting. I agree the article isnt ideal in its current form. Maybe there's two solutions. If others agree, Veteran involvement with Occupy or similar could be created. An issue with this is that although its more notable, it is in a sense a less concrete topic than our current one. Maybe the best solution is to wait for a few weeks and then try to improve the existing article? I havent done so myself yet for similar reasons to your good self - there seems to be a lot of passion and energy from both sides right now, but it will almost certainly dissipate if we wait a while.

Sorry to oppose what may seem like a workable compromise. Ive been a fairly substantial contributor to our main Occupy Movement article, and there is so much interesting stuff folk want to add that much of it is having to be rejected. Discussions are currently under way to split out sections into dedicated articles. OWS seems similarly cramped. So Im hoping no one will try to force a merge. As the excellent editor DreamFocus always says, a forced merge is often an excuse for deletionists to destroy what they dont like when they cant get a delete decision. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

sounds like a plan. I'll put on my watchlist, and if push comes to shove I'll restore and move to user space somewhere (in order to keep history). — Ched :  ?  19:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

BN

Pfft; fun; that's how wars start eh? hee hee :-)

'nings  Chzz  ►  20:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I feel like such an idiot .. lol. — Ched :  ?  20:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Well done

The Random Diplomat Award
I hereby bestow upon you this Random Diplomat Award. Marie Depage was chosen to represent this high office by virtue of the facts that (a) her image is public domain, (b) she doesn't look mean, (c) she's facing right, and (d) she reproduces well in miniature.

You, by contrast, were chosen with great precision to receive the reward, in honor of your diplomacy and friendliness in dealing with Kimo Williams. I think it's important to put a good face on Misplaced Pages for everyone, and I admire the way you approached it. Moonriddengirl 12:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm watching his page in case he decides to verify license, but I have to admit there's a chance I'll overlook it. I'm not on as often as I'd like to be in this account. :) If you happen to see him leaving notes or questions that I can help with, please let me know. --Moonriddengirl 12:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
awwww .. thank you so much MRG ... you are so da-gone sweet. :-) — Ched :  ?  18:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
The next line is, "...got that sand all over your feet..." ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:28, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, all for your help with Kimo Williams. Much appreciated. Wasn't sure what the best course of action was. StarM 02:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

ANI comment (Review of block reviews)

I was actually responding (and posing the question) to Nobody Ent. I'm sorry if the indention was not clear that I was making the reply to the OP and not you. Hasteur (talk) 20:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

ahhh .. ok .. no problem. I know I don't always do real well at explaining what I'm thinking. Have a good one — Ched :  ?  20:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

m²==Brains work Better==

The 'Brains Work Better in A Community' Award
Thank you for all your efforts to befriend your fellow Wikipedian Editors. Sometimes we need a reminder that we are all human afterall. This barnstar is awarded to Editor Ched Davis for having the intelligence to work in harmony with situations and other editors. Buster Seven Talk 23:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


Buster .. you are such a kind and decent man. there is no way I deserve such a thing .. but I do thank you. I have some real life things to take care of here for the next day or 3 with my grandkids .. but I do promise to get back to you very soon. All my very best my friend - have a safe and happy holiday. :) ... — Ched :  ?  16:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I have 13...or is it 14. Best to you and yours.Buster Seven Talk 22:30, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

baiting for wp:civil ban

hi!

You wrote: "I've seen experienced editors (including some admins) use sugar-coated condescending and baiting text to draw an (dare I say?) opponent into a "blunt" retort: and then lower that "civility" hammer."

I didn't think there was much point trying to explain this but as you so specifically described the tactic, I was just looking at this:

  • This indefinite ban:
  • Which was based on this wp:civil report:
  • Which talked about this discussion:.
  • Where Anna was answering the question raised in this edit:
  • The response was: "And what has your crackpot conspiracy theory got to do with the article? We don't give a rat's arse what you think 'may' be happening. Please don't spam this page with delusional junk."

This baited Anna into writing the first bad comment she ever wrote for which she was indefinitely banned.The article talks about a company that was note worthy 17 years ago. It is perfectly valid to use the talk page to figure out when Clean Energy Technology Inc closed shop or if it was merged etc.

Examples of AndyTheGrump's trying to bait me:

  • "What fucking part of 'not WP:RS don't you halfwits understand?)"
  • "fuck off, scumbag"
  • "moron"
  • "go fuck yourself"

How he talks about me:

  • "Please don't post ridiculous notices about 'consensus'. The fuckwits edit-warring over this article don't give a damn about such concepts - and frankly, if Misplaced Pages is going to tolerate such morionic POV-pushing turds, it can manage without me..."

I just ignore him but it is obvious enough this user should not be filling wp:civil reports about anyone. The mechanics seem to work exactly the way you described. 84.106.26.81 (talk) 13:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I just found this Arbitration Case. It provides this example. 84.106.26.81 (talk) 14:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


  • first let me say that I am truly sorry that anyone has treated you so poorly here. And I do promise to look into this and try to find a way to a better understanding
  • second .. and I am sorry that I'm not on this asap .. but it is a major holiday in my part of the world ... my grandkids have to come first for the next day or two — Ched :  ?  15:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Merry Christmas :)
I'm not bothered by the treatment, it just doesn't seem appropriate to ban anyone for being rude to him.
It's a classic case of "Charlie bit my finger".
84.106.26.81 (talk) 05:37, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
I had never seen or heard of that "Charlie bit my finger" vid before. It did make me laugh ... I'm sure I'll use this link in the future. Yes, I agree - there are some folks that go back again to the lion's cage in an attempt to poke the ones that give exactly the reaction they expect - and then complain about that very reaction. — Ched :  ?  12:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Attack page?

  • Ched, can this be construed as an attack page? IMO, calling someone a prostitute is downright nasty and uncalled for on Christmas day or just about any other day. --Dave 16:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

GAN Noel F. Parrish

Hi,

I have reviewed your nomination as Talk:Noel F. Parrish/GA1 and put it on hold for seven days so you can respond to the problems I've noted.

Please feel free to contact me with questions or comments.

Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 20:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Have a great Christmas

Christmas pudding is hot stuff!
Have a wonderful Christmas. As the song says: "I wish you a hopeful Christmas, I wish you a brave new year; All anguish, pain, and sadness Leave your heart and let your road be clear." Pesky (talk …stalk!) 23:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


awwwww .. thank you so much Pesky - very much appreciated, and I wish you a most wonderful day and season as well. :) — Ched :  ?  12:33, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry X'mas~!

"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,

I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)

Dave is wishing you a Merry Christmas.

This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove.


Spread the cheer by adding {{Subst:Xmas4}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thank you so much Dave ... I hope you have a wonderful holiday as well. — Ched :  ?  12:34, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


Merry Christmas

I would like to wish all my fellow editors a very Merry Christmas; and a most wonderful holiday season. Cheers. — Ched :  ?  12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Frohliche Weinachten und Gluckliches neues Jahr

Christbaumschmuck an einer Nordmanntanne (fotografiert in Baden-Wurttemberg, Deutschland)
Christbaumschmuck an einer Nordmanntanne (fotografiert in Baden-Wurttemberg, Deutschland)

Photo from Baden_Wurttemberg, Germany.PumpkinSky talk 12:37, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Is it a white Christmas in your area? Not here, just a heavy frost. PumpkinSky talk 12:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
Yea, same here. Pittsburgh and Oakdale are a bit chilly .. but not white. — Ched :  ?  13:11, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Parrish award

See has some but not all recipients. Making more edits too. PumpkinSky talk 15:28, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what to do with these: *Letter to Donald Weckhorst, dated 11 April 1984
very cool .. thanks for the links! ... hope to get back to it tonight. :) ... and thank you again for all your help PS — Ched :  ?  18:27, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm now not so sure these add much, should we just put them in ext links?PumpkinSky talk 23:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
My guess would be that the N. Pilot one would be a good external at the Tuskegee article. The letter to Weckhorst I'd definitely keep - maybe as an external now, .. and if we continue to expand it has some good quotes and insight to how Parrish thought and acted. That first one may actually be in the refs now .. not sure. We did a bit more work on the article today - see what you think. What else do we need to do? — Ched :  ?  23:15, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Yea, the first is a ref from a few days ago. Added the other two to ext links, one each article. Unless you can think of something else, you should ask for a wrap up review now. PumpkinSky talk 23:27, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
GA CONGRATS!PumpkinSky talk 23:59, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, congrats! This is an article that many wouldn't have bothered with but definitely deserves to get attention. Hope you will continue improving it. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 00:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
A nice post-Christmas gift, you did it! GA added GA you know where, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

C/2011 W3 (Lovejoy)

Hey Ched, I was wondering if you'd mind examining C/2011 W3 (Lovejoy) for me. I just rewrote and expanded the thing, and while I'm rather proud of the result, I feel I need a friend to tell me everything I did wrong so my soul isn't crushed. :D (And a belated Merry Christmas and early Happy New Year to ya!)— Huntster (t @ c) 11:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

VERY cool. I've put it on my watchlist, and I'll try to do something productive on it in the next couple days. It's a topic I'll enjoy, and I always do enjoy working with you. ... beside, maybe it will get me away from some of the AC drama. :) — Ched :  ?  11:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
To take you further away I suggest some music related to a comet, pictured, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you Gerda - I did a search and listened for quite a bit to various selections in that genre. Very relaxing indeed. I always did enjoy Celtic music.
@Huntster .. that is a VERY well written article. Did it go to DYK or anything? I changed a thing or two .. got some clarification on the talk page - I'll see if I can find a reference for the response I got on talk as well - perhaps add that somewhere? — Ched :  ?  22:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

National Archives ExtravaSCANza

You are invited to the National Archives ExtravaSCANza, taking place every day next week from January 4–7, Wednesday to Saturday, in College Park, Maryland (Washington, DC metro area). Come help me cap off my stint as Wikipedian in Residence at the National Archives with one last success!

This will be a casual working event in which Wikipedians are getting together to scan interesting documents at the National Archives related to a different theme each day—currently: spaceflight, women's suffrage, Chile, and battleships—for use on Misplaced Pages/Wikimedia Commons. The event is being held on multiple days, and in the evenings and weekend, so that as many locals and out-of-towners from nearby regions as possible can come. Please join us! Dominic·t 01:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedians from DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, and Pittsburgh have been invited.

Congratulations on reaching WP:GA status on Noel F. Parrish

Congratulations on your GA Article
The article Noel F. Parrish that you -researched, developed, and substantially contributed to has reached the Good Article status. Thank you for your work here. PumpkinSky would like to award you the GA Editing Barnstar.
THANK YOU! PumpkinSky talk 18:28, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

By the by

Thanks for commenting on my evidence/analysis. On a related issue, your contribution to this affair surely deserves commendation, particularly in the way you promptly drew attention to the potential furore, and have acted consistently as a critical friend to MF. To me, that's a model for how we should all interact with other editors. Geometry guy 02:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

wow .. to be honest, I don't know what to say. That you would take notice of my meager efforts here leaves me feeling wordless. I know that you are one of the "big guns" here, and I am truly flattered. Thank you so much for your kind words GG. — Ched :  ?  02:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
I just came here to say exactly the same thing, which I did with a twee bit of wikilove below. It's very hard to wade through a sewer and not come out smelling of crap, but you've managed. Worm · (talk) 11:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

The qualities of an editor are defined by the quality of their edits: you've made some very good edits here, and I am pleased to see that I am far from being the only editor who has noticed. Geometry guy 23:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

thank you GG. I figure I still have tons to learn, and a long way to go - but I'll keep plugging away at it. :) — Ched :  ?  23:35, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Civility Barnstar
I've been reading through the whole Christmas fun on civility (since I've been away for a bit). From what I've seen, almost everyone has acted in a way I'm not impressed with, but the way you handled the comment which sparked all of this off was a diamond in the rough. Kudos Ched, I'm glad there are people like you on WP. Worm · (talk) 11:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Strong support, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:45, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Support, -Buster Seven Talk 15:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
thank you so much folks .. I honestly don't know what to say. There are just so many great folks here ... I feel honored just to be a part of such a great group of folks. — Ched :  ?  20:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Support even though I don't know what's going on. I do know that you are a civil person :) — Huntster (t @ c) 22:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
lol .. thanks Huntster. Not really sure how I got into that huge discussion myself. I really need to be hanging out with you at articles more I think. :) — Ched :  ?  23:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Strong support and OOH RAH, Yea team! VERY well deserved! PumpkinSky talk 23:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
lol .. thanks PS. :) — Ched :  ?  23:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

PA

(As in "NPA".) Isn't this a bit of an overreaction? First, you refer to WP:NPA, but that's mostly about attacking one's addressee. Secondly, the writer doesn't refer to the politician as an asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron; or in the pay of Israel, "Islamofascists", or the tobacco business; or a puppet controlled by Bilderberg, the "Illuminati", Cheney, extraterrestrial reptiles, etc -- he merely calls him "abhorrent". True, this hardly indicates the dispassionate stance needed for encyclopedic writing, but it also hardly strikes me as a personal attack. (It also may be useful as an indicator that this editor isn't or can't be dispassionate.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:55, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I realize that the subject matter is quite polarizing, and that many folks have strong views on Santorum; but that does not give us leave to refer to others as "abhorrent". I could have and should have also linked to WP:BLP as well, and if you will note: I did not go and chastise the editor. I simply removed the offending remark. If you feel it is acceptable to refer to others as "abhorrent", then I'm not really sure what more I can say here. If you wish to revert me and restore the original "abhorrent Mr Santorum" than I will certainly not try to remove the comment again. I saw what I thought was an offensive personal attack on another living person, so I removed it. I don't have any desire to fight, edit-war, or create any major drama about it though. Feel free to revert at will - and thank you for notifying me of your objection to my actions. cheers and best, — Ched :  ?  13:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh, the number of people who abhor Santorum should be beside the point; people should have no more or less right to call him abhorrent than to call Romney or Obama abhorrent. (My guess, though, is it that isn't beside the point: consider how little worry there seems to be about what's on, say, Talk:Robert Mugabe.) What does it mean to say that somebody is abhorrent? Something like "I abhor him and a lot of other people do too". If that's on the right track (and it's only my first approximation), then it doesn't seem an attack to me; rather, it's a statement of and about strong dislike. -- Hoary (talk) 13:57, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
I think for me the distinction lies in the specific way the word is used. If one says "Mr. Santorum's politics, (or statement) is abhorrent" then the adjective clarifies an intangible (his politics or his statement) If one says that they "abhor ", then they state their own personal (and subjective) feelings toward a subject. But when a person uses the sentence structure: BLP doesn't cover this, since there is no false information about the abhorrent Mr Santorum. - then clearly (in my mind) the word "abhorrent" becomes a direct and deliberate attempt using the adjective to suggest that the person is inherently "abhorrent" ie: loathsome - odious - detestable - abominable - loathful. If that is not a personal attack on someone - then I'm sorry, I don't know what is. Regardless of any political inclinations here, can you honestly draw no distinction between these things? I may abhor Obama's political agenda. I may abhor the impact he's had on the US. But I can NOT say he is an abhorrent person on Misplaced Pages. BLP, NPA, and CIV simply forbid that kind of thing.
Ya know - there's a case going on now up at arbcom regarding language and civility. And for the most part we frown on people who do call others (to use some of your own words) "asshole, a wife-beater, a cheat, a scumbag, a crook, a phoney, or a moron..." (toss in a few of the more base and crass ones there and we could really have a blast here). But if it's going to come down to a ruling at Arbcom that we can not call people things like "c*nt, ass, c*cks*cker, etc.", but that it is perfectly fine to degrade and insult others so long as we use nice pretty words like "abhorrent, loathsome, odious, or detestable" then you set the entire site up for a class-warfare schism that many will not want any part of. (myself included).
I will be glad to take a look at the Mugabe stuff tonight. — Ched :  ?  14:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, we do indeed frown on people who call others assholes, wife-beaters, etc -- and rightly so (with the minor exception, I suppose, of those people who have been convicted of beating their wives or who have confessed to having beaten them, etc etc). To say that somebody is "abhorrent" is, I'd say, very different -- and as a description of undesirability it's tolerable (though not to be encouraged) when that person not only is a public figure but is also openly participating in what is very much a popularity contest. If somebody were to refer to you as "abhorrent" on a talk page, I'd probably leave it but have word with him either there or on his talk page. If on the other hand he referred to you as an "asshole", I'd "redact" it and give him an earful; a repeat would earn him a block. ¶ Well, perhaps you and I disagree on what is and isn't degrading. -- Hoary (talk) 02:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Isn't that what civility blocks are all about? BLocking someone because there's disagreement about what is what?PumpkinSky talk 02:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
No it isn't what they are all about. -- Hoary (talk) 03:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Sure it is. Go look at the Malleus arbcase. PumpkinSky talk 03:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
This? Yes, I looked at it. I released my cursor here and there within it, and read the surroundings. They looked interesting and intelligent, not least among them the comments by our genial host Ched. I also very much like the idea of "Malleus incivility birthday bingo"; time willing, I'll try it out. But read all of that stuff? Sorry, no. "This user is not an arb and does not wish to be one." I'll wait to read the results. Unless perhaps I'm canvassed asked to read some particular part within it. -- Hoary (talk) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Only if you're in the mood to do so. No offense taken -- and certainly no gloating ("Wee-hee, I got the last word!") -- if you don't. There's so much else to be done. In the meantime, let me (again) reassure you that I do not intend to encourage the use of "abhorrent" or similar. -- Hoary (talk) 09:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Learning

You mentioned "learning" in the edit summary for the above. I would like to expand my vocabulary and asked for a few words in their context, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


Malleus Incivility Birthday Bingo: (May 9)

So - on this day in history, Malleus voiced the most supported view at a RfC, complimented one admin., opposed an RfA, pointed out an inconsistency at WP:BN, and took 4 articles to GA. Quite some days work I'd say. — Ched :  ?  17:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

  • I supported the SoV RfA.

For the record

Dan Savage is an internationally syndicated columnist whose work has appeared in dozens of markets for over twenty years. He has had five books published by major publishers; one of those books served as the basis for an award-winning musical. He launched the It Gets Better Project, which drew the personal participation of the President of the United States (among many, many others). He may not be 'Walter Cronkite, Edward R. Murrow, or Rupert Murdoch', but he's never claimed to be (and really, categorizing Murdoch with Murrow and Cronkite? Murdoch is not a journalist. Murdoch employs journalists). That doesn't make him less of a significant or influential figure; he's well past '15 minutes'.

I would also point out that Mr Savage's distasteful neologism says nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. DS (talk) 20:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct, and I apologize. I have re factored my statement. — Ched :  ?  23:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)